>> mr. roth? >> i would assume that the imposition of a regulation generally increases costs for someone. the question always is there an offsetting benefit to that regulation and in this case the judgment is whether the excessive -- where there is excessive speculation and whether it is hurting the overall economy. >> thank you madam chairwoman. >> you are welcome. thank you very much to both of you. we will excuse you and after third panel to join us. [inaudible conversations] c-span continues live coverage tomorrow afternoon of the republican leadership conference in new orleans with texas governor rick perry, george bush the nephew of former president bush and republican national

committee chairman reince priebus. >> the time sort of order the world when i was growing a. >> page-one producer and director and for rossi looks at the changing newspaper industry and takes an inside look at "the new york times" to the eyes of the staff.

>> i came into it without a grand sort of sense of what the solutions are for traditional media. i came in with a desire really just to observe. >> he will talk about his new documentary sunday night on c-span's q&a. >> the federal reserve chairman ben bernanke says failure to put our fiscal house in order will it wrote the vitality of our economy, reduce the standard of living in the united states and increase the risk of economic and financial instability. he made those comments at a conference on the u.s. economy hosted by the committee for responsible budget and the new america foundation in washington d.c.. it is about 15 minutes. >> well, good morning and thanks very much to each of you for coming and for your patience. it is always a challenge being the third panel of witnesses, so we appreciate your patience this morning.

let me introduce our witnesses. mr. chuck connors the president president and chief executive officer of the national council of farmers cooperatives. he has worked at the usda as deputy secretary at the white house and as a special assistant to president bush and president of the corn refiners association. we welcome you this morning. mr. adam cooper is the chief legal officer as citadel llc in chicago and he is here today on behalf of the managed funds association, an organization he knows well having served two terms as the chairman at citadel. mr. cooper is responsible for the firm's global, legal compliance, transaction management and regulatory affairs functions so we welcome you. i should also mention just on the side that mr. cooper is a graduate of the university of michigan, so even though -- i will welcome you.

and then, last encircling not least is john damgard who has been president of the futures industry association for nearly 30 years. mr. dam guard has a record of public service with stents at the usda and the white house and served as deputy assistant, acting assistant, secretary of agriculture responsible for major marketing and regulatory functions at the usda, so we welcome all three of you and we will ask mr. connor to go first. >> chairwoman, staff and ranking member robertson member of the committee, thank you for holding this hearing today to review the implementation of the dodd-frank act. i appreciate the opportunity to be here to discuss the role of the over-the-counter derivatives, market and helping farmers and more specifically farmer owned cooperatives that manage commodity prices risks which is such an important factor today.

before proceeding further with my testimony, chairwoman stabenow i just do need to say though that while my remarks express some degree of criticism against the commodities futures trading commission and the direction they are taking as an organization we have been given unprecedented access to them as well, and certainly given full opportunity to make our views known throughout that process, both to the commissioners as well as to the staff members at the cftc and for that we are very very appreciative to them. cfc is here today to ask for your continued help in ensuring and ensuring that the limitation of the dodd-frank act does indeed preserve the management tools available for farmers and their cooperatives. we are pleased -- we were pleased to hear your remarks chair roman stabenow and those of senator klobuchar at the earlier hearing on march 3 at the dodd-frank implementation.

due to market volatility in recent years co-ops are using more and more more over-the-counter products to better manage their risk exposure. by customizing what are known as commercial hedges and more producers are depending upon their core operatives to provide them with these tools to manage price risk and to assist them in locking in these margins. as i indicated earlier and as others have noted volatility is probably one of the most difficult challenges that we face in american agriculture today. american farmers and ranchers must continue to have access to these new and innovative risk management products if they are to survive. ncfc supports elements of the dodd-frank act that bring more transparency and oversight to be over-the-counter derivatives markets. however, he answered a created

by the definition rules is our greatest concern at this time. while the cftc has proposed regulations for swaps and swap dealers, it is unclear to us who will be subject -- subjected to these additional regulations. further, some activities of co-ops would appear to be swept into the swap dealer definition category. the two main issues in the proposed rules or the application of the so-called interpretive approach for identifying whether a person is a swap dealer and the very low threshold on the de minimis exception. the proposed rule would likely capture a number of entities that were never intended by this committee to be regulated as swap dealers, including farmer cooperatives. at additionally, some cooperatives are at risk at the designated as swap dealers due to their unique structure. for example a federated grain or farm supply co-op is owned by many local cooperatives, which are separate business entities

unlike a traditional corporate structure where risk can be transferred and consolidated internally. cooperatives look to transfer risk from local levels to an affiliated federated co-op. using swaps is a tool to transfer that risk should not lead them we believe to be designated as dealers. under the draft rules, they simply would be. these rules were intended for large systemically important institutions and to answer an earlier question, we are not in that category by any means. imposing them on co-ops who would need increased financial requirements and other regulatory costs, this in turn would make offering the services to our former members simply uneconomical. such action would result in the unintended consequence of increasing risk in the agricultural sector and to farmers. the exact opposite of what this committee i believe would have happened. we did not believe this was your

intention. so i thank you again for the opportunity to testify before the committee. we appreciate your role, you are very active role in ensuring farmer co-ops will continue to be able to support the viability of their member farmers and for the corporate as we own and we look forward to answering any questions you may have. >> thank you very much. mr. cooper. >> thank you chairman stabenow, ranking member roberts, members of the committee. i'm here on behalf of the management association and its members but also on behalf of citadel which is a global financial sensation that provides asset management services and a range of capital markets activities from our headquarters in chicago and offices and financial centers such as new york, san francisco, boston, london and hong kong. we appreciate the opportunities to provide the implementation of title vii of the dodd-frank act and we commend the committee for his diligent oversight of the new regulatory framework affecting derivatives.

nfa is the voice of the internal investment industry and our members help tensions and endowments and other institutional's diversify their investments, manage their investments, and generate reliable returns to meet their obligations to beneficiaries. our members are active participants in the derivatives market. a strong interest in promoting the integrity of the proper functioning of these markets and increase transparency, competition and systemic risk mitigation. nfa recognizes the efforts of the cftc and sec in promulgating regulations called called for under dodd-frank. we believe it is imperative the regulators implement the rules in a straightforward, commonsense and workable manner to assist in these efforts. we provided regulators and we have submitted in connection with their testimony here today a blueprint which contains a detailed plan for adopting and implementing all types of rules. by properly ordering priorities and establishing defined

milestones the otc griffiss market could achieve substantial progress towards key regulatory reforms including central clearing sooner rather than later. nfa supports policymakers efforts to reduce systemic risk by requiring central clearing and data-gathering about the swaps. we believe a straightforward and workable phased implementation starting with the central clearing will play an essential role in reducing systemic operational and counterparty risks, will enhance market transparency, competition and regulatory efficiencies and will fulfill the primary goal of title vii of dodd-frank. we are confident that good clearing, and that is clearing with open access and real-time processing, will become the foundation for competitive execution facilities and significant improvements in transparency. clearing of otc derivatives is not new. since the dealer to dealer clearing happens today. the buy side is taken significant preparations. for example a number of firms

have negotiated clearing agreements, tested margin methodologies, test it straight through processing and worked work for wide range of operational and reporting issues necessary to clear scale. it makes good sense for a policy perspective to capitalize on this momentum and facilitate greater by side access, greater eyesight access to clearing out. weird regulators to move probably and to ensure that all market participants that want access to clearing have access to clearing. the success of central clearing and data-gathering will depend on the structure, governments and the financial soundness of the clearinghouses, the data repositories and the other institutions in this marketplace. we strongly believe there's a need for those entities to have transparent and replicable risk models and straight through clearing processes that enable fair and open access that incentivize competition and that reduce barriers to entry. it is important to have customer representation on the wrist committees of clearinghouses and for no one to constitute a

controlling majority. that is financial end-users exchange margin with her counterparties. the prudential regulator's proposed capital i margin requirements for swap dealers and for major swap participants do not require those entities to pose margins to their non-dealer counterparts. this will undermine market discipline. the absence of this two-way marching discipline and regime is the central lesson to aig's billiar. we are also concerned the cftc's proposed segregation rules made repair arrangements that permit netting across customers cleared and uncleared positions. we believe this will increase systemic and settlement risk and will restrict these use of capital. nfa remains concerned about the efficacy of physician limits. we are particularly concerned about the workability of their cftc proposed rules which depart from its long-standing policy of disaggregation of independently

controlled accounts. inappropriately formulated limits would impair the ability of markets to serve their essential risk allocation function which would increase the cost of managing risk and harm actors and ultimately consumers of these products. lastly we are where that in europe and throw the world regulators are working on proposed otc derivatives regulations to align with the dodd-frank act. we are concerned about the extraterritorial applications of these regulations however we very much appreciate the ongoing efforts of u.s. and non-u.s. policymakers and regulators to coordinate and ensure the harmony, the efficacy and the alignment of derivatives reforms. on behalf of citadel and the nfa i thank you for the opportunity to testify and stand available to answer any questions. >> thank you very much. mr. dam guard, welcome. >> chairman stabenow ranking member roberts and senator lugar, and john dam guard president of the futures industry on behalf of the --

thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. the fia is the leading trade association for the futures options and over the counter derivatives markets. its membership includes a world's largest clearing firms as well as the leading derivatives exchanges for more than 20 countries including citadel. we take justifiable pride throughout the financial crisis to futures markets continued to function extremely well. the futures regulatory system pass the test with flying colors and i would like to say in contrast to what mrs. boren said our trade association has no interest in stonewalling or undermining this process are core members have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in their efforts to make sure that they are ready for these changes and i think they speak for all of the trade associations that are in the financial world. one of our greatest concerns with the dodd-frank act is a potentially adverse effect on competition. as the president of the fia i can assure you the global derivatives marketplace is

becoming more and more competitive every year. just last week i was in london for our annual international derivatives expo and i heard a lot of discussion about the potential impact of these new regulations. our competitors in london and another financial centers around the world are watching what we do here very closely indeed. while our regulators are making a strong and sustained effort to consult with our counterparts abroad, there are significant differences emerging in our respective approaches and we need to do are at most to preserve a level playing field. in my written testimony i've attached a six page summary of more than two dozen common letters that the fia has filed on various dodd-frank rule makings. i doubt that any of us realized last year just how complicated this process would be. yes, the futures predatory system provided congress with an excellent model for regulating swaps but cleared swaps are not the same as futures. one size does not fit all. to get this right, the new regulatory framework must be

carefully designed and sensibly implemented. i commend the leadership of the cftc and the sec for their determination to carry out the monumental rome a key mandate assigned to them by dodd-frank. through no fault of their own it has become obvious to everyone that the july 16 deadline was simply too ambitious. just yesterday the cftc issued a proposed order providing temporary regulatory relief were several important provisions of the dodd-frank act that are due to take effect on july 15 and i think chairman gensler won over that fairly carefully. but this is only a temporary measure. a far more importance is the substance many rulemaking's now under consideration in the overall impact of the proposed regulations as a whole. the cftc has not yet made decisions on a host of critical issues that will have an important influence on the structure of this industry and the cost that my members must bear. the cftc confirmed yesterday that the final definition of

swap dealer and major swap participants will be among the very last rules adopted yet many of the new regulatory requirements will hinge on these core definitions and until they are finished it is hard to know for sure who and what will be covered. chairman gensler has correctly observed that the proposed rules fit together in a mosaic. mosaics however nothing more than chips of stone and until they been pieced together into a work of art. the commission is shown as the individual chips but hasn't shown its vision on how it will fit together. the industry and the public deserve an opportunity to analyze and comment on this regulatory mosaic before it is set in concrete. in conclusion i would like to circle back to my opening theme, namely the international dimension of dodd-frank. when congress was considering this legislation, many of the financial services industry and congress cautioned that the extraterritorial reach of the rated thrust structure being established here would inhibit the ability of u.s. market participants to compete

internationally. today there is increasing evidence that last year's fears will be this year's reality. we were pleased to learn as the chairman and ranking member of this committee recently wrote to their colleagues in the european parliament expressing their concern. as the senators emphasized, key objective of dodd-frank was quote to consult and coordinate with foreign regulatory authorities on the establishment of consistent international standards for the regulations of derivatives transactions. the fia well comes your pledge to work with your european colleagues to harmonize these rules and stands ready to help in any way we can. in our experience, the cftc's par 30 rule provides a successful model for limiting the extraterritorial impact of dodd-frank. the part 30 rules which govern the sale to u.s. participants was promulgated in -- 1987 as dan roth said and has promoted

international trade for nearly 24 years without sacrificing customer protections. the cftc part 30 rules recognize we cannot expect other countries to implement regulations identical to ours. instead it provides a mechanism for providing the exemptions to exchanges and clearinghouses that are subject to comparable regulations in their own countries. swaps markets even more than the futures markets are international in scope. this is in part because swaps have been traded and bilateral transactions and there've been no trading platforms or central clearing organizations that would focus trading in certain locations. as regulators around -- regulations around the world develop rules it is essential they be corrugated incomparable both with respect to substance and timing. 30 years ago the cftc determined that given the agency's limited resources, it is appropriate at this time to focus the commissions activities upon domestic firms and upon firm

soliciting or accepting orders from domestic users of the futures markets. this same policy should govern the regulation of swaps. in particular we urge the cftc to use its authority under dodd-frank to provide an exemption for swap clearinghouses located outside the united states that clear swabs for u.s. participants provided that they are subject to comparable regulations in their home country. such an exemption would facilitate international competition, provide more choice and clearing for u.s. entities and free the cftc staff to focus on transactions that more directly affect u.s. market participants and i thank you very much for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you very much mr. damgard. you answer the first question i was going to ask you in terms of what is happening abroad and senator bob roberts and i had sent a letter and will be working together with their european counterparts and appreciate your comments on that

as you can tell from the committee discussion today. we are very concerned about how all this fits together and making sure it is done in the right way. mr. cooper, being a part of a firm that is very active in these markets, i would like to hear more about your perspective on phasing in implementation in a financial regulatory reform and any potential delays. was delaying the bill create additional legal or market uncertainty in your opinion, and what sort of information or certainty from the regulators would be ideal to help your firm meet the changes required by reform? >> thank you that in chairwoman. we are today may be literally 1000 days from the demise of lehman. we still do not have meaningful central clearing of derivatives. one of the greatest goals of

dodd-frank was to reduce the systemic risk that builds up from the chain of interconnectedness. facing and represents a common sense approach. we do not subscribe to the big bang theory. there are a lot of rules and there are a lot of issues but we do know is that today the infrastructure for clearing excess. we have been clearing derivatives for nearly a century in this country. clearing takes place today between the dealers, and the buy side is asking for mandatory access to clearing to those firms that are ready to clear. most of the risk that in -- exist in the system today are derived from the largest firms and those that are capable and desirous of clearing. certainty is key. once we launch clearing and their related data that will be available to the regulators from reporting swap data repositories, the regulators can

then be much more thoughtful about phasing in and providing specificity about the subsequent aspects of implementation of dodd-frank so we think the launch of clearing will in fact provide a range of data that will help our regulators make more informed decisions, smarter regulation and greater certainty for the marketplace. >> thanks very much. mr. connor, we appreciate your testimony today and for highlighting what is certainly an important responsibility of this committee has been look at the importance of risk management for farmers and co-ops and end-users in general. but i wonder if you might go into more detail about the impact of increased volatility in the commodity markets, how it has impacted your members, why it is critical to preserve the relationship between the farm and the co-op and also if you

might have any specific examples on the impact of farmers or co-ops in terms of additional regulations that are coming such as swap dealer requirements in that kind of thing? >> thank you senator stabenow. let me just say the costs are substantial. and the volatility in today's marketplace is really just unprecedented. this is not theory. this is not you you know hypothetical what-ifs. we are living in the midst of the most volatile commodity times we have ever seen in our nations history. last week, you know usda's crop report and immediately prices are locked up to maximum daily limits and there are consequences associated with these kinds of price moves. you have both producers and buyers on any given day, you are

not looking to limit your exposure over the course of a day or a couple of days. you are trying to limit your exposure in terms of hours and minutes because there is that kind of volatility in this marketplace. for our producers obviously they just simply can't withstand that kind of volatility. they can't be sitting on a commodity that is worth something one day and the next day it may be worth 50% lessor 50% more. if you are a livestock guy, how do you deal with that? on any given day there can be that kind of change in earl and put costs of this is a huge huge issue for american agriculture. co-ops did not get into this business because we saw opportunity. we got in there because our farmer owners came to us and said you know, this may well be the number one issue we are phasing-in as our co-op what can you do to help us manage these kinds of risks? individual farmers despite the presence of a very strong

futures market for hedging come in many cases individual farmers simply don't have the ability to hedge their commodities on the futures markets and withstand the margin calls that you can get in that daily price movement. they don't have access to that kind of capital to lock up, you know to handle those margin calls. they have looked to the co-ops to say what can you do for me to basic we absorb some of that margin and kind of requirement so you can offer me a fuller price? once i have my crop in hand, and i can't handle the margin of an hedging that particular price on our futures exchanges. co-ops, one of the functions we have done is we have assumed that. we have taken over their price risk function we have taken over the responsibility for marching if you will, those kinds of transactions. sum of that marching has evolved over-the-counter swabs. in order to limit our own exposure. the example i use madam chairman

is you know i've had one co-op that on one given day as a result of changes in the corn and soybean market had 100 million-dollar margin calls in one day. that is one transaction, so these are not small numbers and the impact of trying to capitalize yourself to be able to withstand that kind of action on a given day. you walk into the office and someone is on the phone saying i need 100 onion dollars of your capital. you can't sustain that kind of thing and we have used i think effectively, been forced to use these over-the-counter transactions to try and manage that on behalf of our producers. >> which in turn finds its way to exchange and is the corn and soybean producer i certainly sympathize and agree with everything chuck says. and get clearinghouses are very very complicated organizations. i mean they are very very capital intensive and to your

point adam, the clearinghouses have to be very careful about establishing standards to be members of that clearinghouse and how much money it requires to be a member. you can't let the corner shoe store guy become a clearing member without running the other people that have substantial capital deciding to get out of the clearinghouse. so the clearinghouses have worked extremely well but they don't eliminate risk. the mutual i sit among the people that have the deep pockets. >> thank you very much. senator roberts. >> madam chairwoman, once i was chairman of the subcommittee of the armed services committee. i made it mandatory that every panel member be shackled to their chairs so that they could hear all panels. i just think it would need appropriate here. i am not for shackling.

[laughter] but at any rate, it would be interesting to have a panel here with mr. connor and then have this born and then mr. cooper and i would like to place chairman gensler next to chairman damgard and then have at it and have about a 15 roundtable discussion. i think it would be very helpful. chuck, welcome back. thank you for your contribution. thank you for that last statement. what are you going to tell your membership as a result of this hearing? are you going to say you have every confidence that a farmer cooperative is free in regards to some of this cftc rulings that you are worried about? what are you going to tell them? ..

>> and it wasn't until yesterday that they met. there were several 3-2 votes which were obvious in regards to deadlines and what was going on, and then we have the order, i guess is the order, i said regulations. i was casetized by staff saying it's an order. it's 23 pages long with two appendixes. i have not read it all.

i'm supposed to digest it. as i said before, i probably get indigestion. now, you can't tell me you had access to the 51 working groups and thousand pages of regulations? you might be able to tell me to you know specific concern you had some access and at some guarantee or something like that. now senator indicated what am i going to tell a local manufacturer? the chairwoman doesn't know, i don't think, she's awfully good and brilliant to host a hearing, but i doubt she's had time, and the "wall street journal" had more than we had. she doesn't know, senator klobuchar doesn't know, senator thune doesn't know, senator chabbliss doesn't know, i don't know, and we have one member of staff that does know. we have not had time to digest it. i don't think chairman gensler

what the 31 working groups and 51 regulations are going on to the detail that we would like to know, and so they have simply belated until december #31, and we're in another state of swap purgatory although there's some exceptions that we've been advised not to worry, you know, we're going to take care of it. i'm being a little harsh, but the way this has been handled, having a hearing before they show up and having a hearing at eight o'clock in the morning, i don't like that at all. i don't think that's the way to be treated. i don't think the chairwoman should be treated like that, or me or any other senator. i -- mr. cooper, what will you tell your membership? john, what will you tell your membership in terms of what you found out at this hearing?

>> well, senator -- >> how about another hearing a little bit later on? >> we would welcome that very much. we know that this mosaic that i spoke of is going to be very, very difficult to put together. i have great sympathy for chairman genlser. i think you're right. i think he's working as hard as he can for coordination, but i mean, somebody handed me this today which he couldn't have known. sigh lone lose, the chairman of the association of financial markets in europe was quoted as saying yesterday, "there remains the risk of poorly calibrated rushed unclear regulation," he told a brussels office. >> you said in your testimony the european parliament is considering regulatory retaliation against the united states clearing organizations unless the u.s. recognizes mule

chewable equipment of military regimes. it's not follow along or get in line. it is basically equivalent foreign regulatory regimes. what smuz the tftc do for this and what would be the consequences if the tftc does not act in regards to a retaliatory kind of situation here in regards to what you heard over there in the european parliament? >> well, in my testimony, you know, i talk about part 30 mutual recognition, and i think that really is the answer. i think sometimes secretary geithner's remarks about, you know, whatever the light touch in london was the reason for this terrible tragedy. that wasn't constructive. i happened to be over there at the time, and people were not happy with that. they are saying, well, you didn't have regulations on the products at all, so why can you criticize us for late regulation? it does -- it tends to make it more difficult to reach any accommodation, and my sense last

week was that if the united states goes it alone, we'd be very, very -- we'd be risking an awful not, not only retaliation, but damaging u.s. participants in the market. >> well, i thank you for your comment. i'm overtime by a minute forty typically at any rate, and i've been unpleasant this morning because of the situation. i'm trying to figure out what you're going to tell your people, and i think what you're going to tell them is, well, it was a pretty darn good hearing with pertinent questions, chairman gensler did the best he could. ms. born was reliving the thrilling days of yesteryear of ect., ect., ect., but you don't have anything of concrete to put your membership at ease to say

don't worry about this. we have to chop our strong oversight ability, and when things clear up a little bit, and lord knows chairman genlser has a tremendous challenge ahead because of the budget restrictions of what he is forced to do, mandated to do, what he wants to do under dodd-frank so i don't know. do you have any specific positive thing that you can go back to your membership and say, hey, you know, we think, you know, i think we're going to be all right? >> senator, if i may, i do think there's something encouraging that i can report to my members, and i vice president heard anything to detract from the regulators' opportunity to announce a date certain by which clearinghouses will be open for business, and that those who want access to clearing can have access to clearing so that we can phase in those rules, so that we can launch central clearing, and reduce systemic risk today in a meaningful way. >> that's a good thing, and with

that, i think i'll yield back. thank you. >> well, thank you very much. let me just say as we conclude the hearing, we thank all the witnesses today. we certainly appreciate your comments, and as we have said since the beginning of the year, we take our oversight responsibilities very seriously and will continue to do that both through the committee hearing process but also on a day-by-day communication that is happening at staff and certainly senator roberts and i are very engaged at various levels in this. i thank you very much. any additional questions should be submitted to the committee clerk within five business days, and the committee hearing is adjourned. thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> the republican leadership conference is meeting in new orleans. live coverage tomorrow with texas governor rick perry.

>> the american arab anti-discrimination committee recently held its national convention in washington, d.c.. we're going to show you a portion now on political unrest in the arab world. speakers at this 90-minute event include the deputy assistant administrator of the middle east at the u.s. agency for national development. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning. thank you for coming it to this panel, a great panel actually.

the discussion is the e emergence reality of the arab world. it's tremendous and great and anticipated for 550 years. we have finally landed and arrived. we have great panel. we have great professors who will be able and capable to explain and articulate the middle east. from the the american university in washington, d.c. and a professor of international relations, dr. masoud was in the arab states in 1961 and from 67 to 69 he served as senior editor and then chief editor of the weekly. he was appointed of the league

of the arab states, chief representative to the united states and the united nations on september 1, 1979. dr. maksoud is author of several books, chairperson and has many accomplishes on environment and environment development, human rights, population, and disor merriment. he graduated from the university of beirut, received a degree from george washington university in washington, d.c. and poststudies degree in oxford in britain. he was married to the former president of adc. dr. maksoud is the ultimate arab cheer, leader, supporter, and fan. he's been receiverring the arab community for close to 50 years,

and we're delighted and glad to have him with us this morning. our second panel is going to be professor samer shehata. i'm sorry. translate the arabic into that is sometimes difficult to translate that. thank you though. as a professor of arab politics and school of foreign services of georgetown university center for the contemporary art studies teaching courses on arab middle east politics, u.s. foreign policy towards the middle east, and other subjects. before coming to georgetown, samer was a fellow at the columbia university, one year of the districter of the graduate studies at new york university center for middle east centers.

his work was a period and wide variety of academic, publications incoming international journal of the middle east studies, current history, middle east policy, boston globe, and other weeklies. foreign policy and other publications, his books about culture and politics in egypt was published in 2009, and he is also the editor of the forthcoming volume of politics in the middle east. he was interviewed by a wide range of media and testified before the united states congress. he has received scholarships from social science research also. the fourth foundation and the woodrow wilson center foundation for scholars. in 2009, he was selected as

carnegie scholar for his works and understanding of politics. we also have, of course, professor daoud khairallah. he advised financial institutions, governments, and commercial enterprises with financing, investment, and international dispute resolution involving the arab world and also advised clients with regard to government and multilateral initiatives to combat corruption and international business transaction. between 1974 and 1976, he lectured in international law at lebanese university school of law and school of journalism and information. he was a lecturer in project

finance at the international law institute. since 9 #, he has been an adjunct professor at georgetown university law center teaching finance and investment. he was private legal practice from 1965 to 1969 and then from 1973 to 1976. i have one more. at the world bank, he served as a chairman of the conflict of interest. chairman of the select negotiation committee at the finance association, vice chairman at the oversights committee and up -- investigation of fraud and corruption, a member of the asset and liability management committee and legal counsel to the board of executive director

of the budget committee. he comes with very impressive resumé with advise and legal matters and international laws. it's a pleasure having him on board with us. it's a pleasure to have you all part of this discussion. with the emerging new reality of the arab world is what the topic is. i believe professor let's start with you, sir, would like to give us some oversight of what transpires first in the south of egypt for instance. >> sure. well, i think, you know, you can speak generally about the arab world, and i'll do so -- >> microphone. >> microphone. >> i was told that it was on. >> is it turned on? >> is that better?

>> it's on now. >> is that better? can you hear me now? >> no. >> maybe we should wait for the second panel. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> is that better? no. okay. how about if i speak loudly? >> sounds good. >> i think you're bias because you're a little close. okay. i'll begin and then hopefully the gentleman in the back -- [inaudible] so, you know, it doesn't take a political scientist to figure out not only in egypt, but tunisia and bahrain --

[inaudible] >> is the microphone still not on? >> i think if you come closer, that would be better. [inaudible conversations] >> okay, so as i said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what has been going on in tunisia, egypt, yemen, syria, libya, and bahrain. clearly, these political systems were highly authoritarian. there was incredible levels of corruption both politically and economically. economically there were very high levels of unemployment particularly youth unemployment, and many of these states, unfortunately, have been turned into family businesses as opposed to nation states that look out for the best interest of their populations with her red tear succession being a significant problem and one of the underlying causes as we've been seeing. as you remember taking power in

1970 was succeeded by his son in june of 2000, transforming syria into a family dynasty, and this unfortunately, led to terrible pair dime which was then attempted to be followed in iraq under saddam hussein, egypt under mr. mubarak. libya under mr. gadhafi, and there were talks in tunisia succeeding abhedeen. there was no such thing as citizenship in the arab world. i used to lecture to my students that when i would go to egypt as an egyptian citizen, i would leave my rights on the plane when i landed in cairo airport, and they would welcome me into

egypt because i had more rights on that plane as an american citizen than i did and more recourse to rule of law than i did when i landed in cairo so hopefully things are going to change in all of these places. how significant are the events that have been taking place in the arab world in 2011? incredibly significant. one measure of the significance of historical events someone told me is whether they will be in a generation or two written about in high school textbooks, and certainly i think by that measure, the events in 2011 are incredibly significant. when we speak about the important dates and the history of the arab world in the 20th century in the latter half of the 20th century that i work on, we, of course, mention 1968 in the partition dlsh 1948 in the partition, the war of israeli independence, quote-on-quote, we

speak of 1967 and the disastrous defeats of the arab states and the loss of sigh sinai and part of the heights and speak of 1979 with the iranian revolution what that meant from the united states and the region. we speak of 2001, of course, because of the 9/11 attacks. i have no doubt that 2011 is at least as significant of any of those dates, and we will not necessarily see all of these resolutions, these popular uprisings succeed in 2011. it might be some time before we have regime change in algeria, and in the gulf states, and in syria, but there is no question that these regimes, most of them at least are going to come to an end sooner or later, and it's because they are not based on representative government. they are not based on a system

of accountability. they are not based on systems of political participation. they are not based on rule of law, basic human rights, and so on. revolutions are quite rare in human history, and certainly these have been not necessarily in the technical sense of the term revolutions, but certainly massive widespread popular peaceful protests. now, rather than speaking about this or taking the remaining time that i have to speak about this, i think many of us know the basic history and so on. i want to say just a few words about the obama administration's policies towards the middle east also with particular reference to the arab spring or arab uprising as well as what i think is incumbent upon us as arab,

arab-americans, and as human beings to be thinking about and to be add advocating with regard to the arab world and things that are important for us taking place over there. very briefly, of course, i think it's fair to say that there was a great deal of positivism, some positive feelings, sometimes guarded among the arab-american community in the united states with the arrival of mr. obama in 1600 pennsylvania avenue. certainly middle east academics and scholars and analysts were somewhat optimistic because of his previous positions. of course, against the iraq war. many of us thought he would be more even-handed with regard to the palestinian issue, israeli conflicts, of course, his background is significantly different than mr. bush's, the previous president, if you can remember him in terms of his international background, his

kenyan father, familiarly it islam, spending time in indonesia, his apparently previous encounters with rajahed and expressions of sympathy to the palestinians. of course, it would not have been easy to receive a positive action of individuals in the united states following eight disastrous years of the bush administration. i don't need to remind you with regard to that, and, of course, he promised withdrawal from iraq, wrought from afghanistan -- withdrawal from afghanistan, a different policy with the muslim world, reengagement with the palestinian-israeli issue, and so on. unfortunately, not a significant amount of this policy or these

pronouncements have been carried out. there's some force with withdrawalling in iraq, but there's been an escalation of war in afghanistan and pan stan with increase the ground force, increased drone attacks. with regard to the palestinian-israeli issue, we have not seen significant follow through with regard to the obama administration despite the promises of reengagement and despite initial policies that i think many of us looked on favorably such as mr. foreman obama's position on -- mr. obama's position on the immediate expansion of settlements. it's really quite amazing when you look at the relationship between mr. obama and mr. benjamin netanyahu and how obama changed his policy to accept de

facto of the west banks in and around jerusalem. if you were to do a thought experiment and imagine for a minute you came from mars and didn't know who the individuals were and what countries they led, and you looked at their interactions and how each up fliewpsed each -- influenced each other and could shift policy on another, you would think mr. obama was the leader of a small country possibly in the middle east, a population of no more than 5-6 million that receive significant amounts of international amounts from overseas, and that mr. benjamin netanyahu was the leader of the most powerful country in the world. certainly, certainly it has been disappointing with regard to that issue. with regard to democracy in human rights, i would also say that the obama administration has been disappointing with regard to the middle east. you'll remember in the january 21, 2009 inauguration speech,

mr. obama told us, "to those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but we will extend a hand if you unclench your first." he promised to advocate a policy of human rights and democracy promotion, not a policy of democracy promotion based on invasion and military bombings as the obama administration did, but a promotion that was smart, intelligent, and principled. this did not amount to much, and tyrants like mr. mubarak were invited to washington multiple time. there was no follow through with regard to this, and, in fact, it was really only changes in the arab world and only revolutions

in tunisia and egypt, and quite late, in fact, did the obama administration finally, finally articulate policies that were in line with basic values of human rights and political freedoms. .. she called on both sides to show restraint, a kind of moral equivalency between peaceful protesters who were not using violence, who were calling on the illegitimate government in power based on fraudulent

elections, a moral equivalency between them and the regime that was using snipers and violence against them. so really, only late and only as a result of people making history in the arab world, arabs, forcing the change on the ground did american policy supposedly change and of course we saw that change, at least rhetorically, in president obama's may 18 speech about the middle east and titled a new chapter in american diplomacy in which he spoke quite eloquently about the suffering and humiliation that mohammed faced about the core principles that would supposedly guide i hope american foreign policy towards the middle east in the future in opposition to violence and repression, supporting the set of universal rights, free speech, peaceable assembly, freedom of religion and so on.

we will see of course what kind of follow through there will be. that is the most important thing. not speeches but what kind of follow-up there will be. unfortunately, even though president obama mentioned tunisia, egypt, libya, syria iran, palestine bahrain and yemen he did not mention saudi arabia, and it is also a thing quite clear that the united states with the considerable leverage that it has, vis-à-vis yemen, vis-a-vis up dole that the united states did not exert enough pressure on mr. salus to leave willfully and to reduce the possibility of bloodshed in that country. he of course spoke also about the palestinian-israeli conflict and i will leave my co-panelists to speak about that but i don't think quite realistically as arab-americans we are going to get a president who is able to say anything better than what

mr. obama has said and i think that is the harsh reality of politics in this country. he spoke about a viable palestinian state. he spoke about the 1967 lines with mutual land swaps. he spoke about a sovereign palestinian state. he used the word contiguous and so on and he also said that the international community was tired of a quote endless process that never produces an outcome. so, i think one of the lessons of this, because as i said i don't think we are going to get an american administration that really has a different policy, is that as arabs, we can no longer leave it to the united states to focus our hopes and our attention, to depend upon the united states to address in a fair way and in an active way the arab-israeli and palestinian

is really complex. the best hope for addressing this situation is democracy in the arab world, independent arab states that represent their people, that are active in pursuing their interests and that pursue arab interests. and this would mean of course and international -- internationalization of the palestinian effort, greater role for the united nations, greater attention towards the european union, greater involvement of powers like russia, like france unlike brazil and no longer looking upon the united states as the necessary solution to this conflict because i don't think that is likely to happen. just one last thing. i think as americans, as arab-americans and as organizations, we have to be, we have to be perfectly clear about our positions with regard to

democracy and human rights. we have to be unequivocally on the side of human rights, political freedoms and civil liberties. we have to be against oppression, authoritarianism, torture and violence against citizens who peacefully protest. in the strongest terms, i was dismayed and extremely disappointed when i read the claims about what happened with regards to the syrian and american german who was disinvited supposedly from performing at the adc conference. the press release that was issued which i read quite carefully was unsatisfactory, incoherent and intellectually indefensible. [applause] as arab-americans -- as arab-americans, and as decent human beings, we must be on the side of basic human rights and political freedoms and civil

liberties for palestinians, for arab-americans, four egyptians under the mubarak regime, 14 nations, for yemenis, four syrians, for syrians and four libyans. it is not enough to simply state that adc supports quote civil liberties and rights for all people while claiming that adc quote is not permit any particular side of a dispute, unquote. dispute as a euphemism for the brutal repression of civilian protesters by authoritarian regimes that maintain their powers of violence and deceit. if one side of the dispute is the right to peaceful protest, the prohibition of torture, freedom of speech and assembly, the right not to be victims of collective punishment, then that is beside of the dispute that i want to be on. [applause] let me be even more clear. with the syrian regime is doing is outrageous, disgusting and

immoral. it has killed over 1300 people, mostly civilians according to various human rights groups and multiple news organizations. it is used military divisions, tanks and snipers against peaceful protesters. it has engaged in collective punishment, turning off electricity and water to entire towns. it has blocked media and access. it is used tortures against protesters of all ages. it is a brutal, ruthless repression. it is a regime that has failed to deliver economic prosperity for its people. it has failed to return occupied land. it has failed to allow a modicum of political freedom. for 41 years syrians have lived under a family dictatorship. it has lost any legitimacy that it has had her go so, as myself, and i think as an arab-american

and as an organization, we would be doing a tremendous disservice to ourselves to take any other position than to stand with the right principles that i outlined earlier. i think many of us follow middle east politics have a great deal of respect for aragon, the prime minister of turkey who yesterday called what was taking place by the syrian regime atrocities and he is a friend of the syrian regime and who said that, this is the average jury, this is not acting in a humane matter. i think it is incumbent upon us to articulate similar ideas. thank you very much. [applause] >> professor, as far as the agenda and the adc with fairness

and honesty i tried to do with issues in the issues in my office in new york city and has spoken about this agenda few times and it is my conclusion that was a very -- first of all there is a lot of information out there. in number two, it is a very important incident where there was no reason to be pushing it to this level. anger, anxiety and an issue. i spoke three or four times and was insisting in fact he had to be part of this -- and the misunderstanding was simply to discuss and work out in a friendly manner. for some reason some ego sometimes get involved and there maybe some other issues there. i don't understand it. there was no reason for it to

get to this level. it was just very unfortunate and i tried very hard with a lot of members of adc to bring them back and have a civil discussion in do what we are supposed to do from day number one, simply refuse to attend. [inaudible] obviously we have issues in the community. perhaps for not a lot of reasons. this is the reality we have to deal with but again we are opening for any conversation at any time. we will be happy to answer any questions with regard to this matter. but that aside we will go back. thank you very much much professor. i have one small question about egypt. how optimistic are you about the near future and the future?

>> is this working? okay, think this is working now. yes, as we were speaking ahead of the program, egypt of course, you know faces many challenges. there is no question about that. still, the high council of the armed forces translated as the supreme council of the armed forces that is essentially acting as the exec at a body right now that displaced mr. mubarak, sports and we removed him to save themselves is a nondemocratic institution. these are military officers, high-ranking military officers that were part of and beneficiaries of the regime. mr. tantawi, the minister of defense has been minister of defense since 1991. you only need to read the wikileaks reports to understand his relationship with president

mubarak. the reason that he held that post for so long is because he was completely pliant and loyal and supportive of mr. mubarak. so, they certainly cannot be confused with the revolutionary vanguard or people who are proponents of democracy. they are implementing change in egypt despite themselves as a result of continuing pressure that protesters are mounting. you only need to remember that mr. mubarak mmb -- many members of the ruling regime are free until april 12 and april 13. that is several months after the regime was deposed on february 11 and only as a result of a major million person protest on april 8, calling for these people to be held accountable. so, that is a significant obstacle certainly. the unfortunate increase in sick terry intentions in egypt is also an unfortunate obstacle that will need to be overcome in

addition to of course the economic situation in egypt which have gotten somewhat worse since the revolution as a result of the tourism sector has suffered as a result of the revolution. despite all of these things, i i am off domestic with regards to egypt's future. it could be significantly worse than what it is. one only needs to look around at the neighboring states to see what the situation could be. people in egypt are saying that mr. mubarak looks like he deserves the nobel prize compared to bashar and a sawed sawed -- assad and mr. gadhafi so things could be significantly worse. but there is a timeline. i think parliamentary elections will take place in september. i'm confident that no single organization or party will dominate those elections meaning

the ludlum brotherhood will not get over 40% of receipts of presidential elections will take place several months after that. and i think that transitions to democracy are certainly not easy. the outcome is not guaranteed, but as of today i am still optimistic. >> thank you very much professor. professor maksoud. [inaudible] david, professor daoud? your take on the event. [inaudible]

it is either working or not working. m-i heard now? as a late comer about 36 hours ago, i thought i put my thoughts in writing, whatever thoughts i could gather. a wide divide between rulers and ruled has been the most distinctive feature of the arab regime. the absence of effective constitutional mechanisms that link the assumption of power by the ruler to the will of the people has created a crisis of legitimacy that is prevalent in most if not all arab countries. suppression, widespread corruption and pursued a private interest by the ruling party as

well as the disregarded interest in aspiration of the people have contributed to further alienation between ruler and ruled. this was a precursor to the public uprising be witnessed we witnessed in most arab countries. the gist of the ongoing turmoil is an attempt by the people to bridge the gap between themselves and their ruler and to take more active roles in their own government. participatory governments, rule of law and ending of corruption in addition to some social justice tops the list of demands of all popular uprisings. how successful such uprisings will be and what realities we are likely to witness in the arab world. the dust has not yet settled and it is too early to determine.

but let us try to take a closer look at the forces and dynamics of change with the hope that this would help us have a clearer vision of the course events are likely to take in the near future. change will take place land and to the extent the forces of change overcome the forces of resistance and change. when we look at the forces of change, we see, irrespective of the number of people modernized, the degree of enthusiasm that drives them, that the majority among them did not belong to political parties or organize popular movements with clear objectives to achieve such objectives. we notice also that they have little financial means that are totally dependent for the promotion of their cause on the media that is founded and guided

i forces with different agendas. newtek allergy, spontaneous organization and persistence seems to be their main if not only weapon for forcing change. the forces of resistance to change or more accurately, the forces and controlling the direction of change are many. equally motivated, more organized and with infinitely more resources at local, regional and international levels. at the local level, ruling elites have invested interest in protecting their privileges through maintaining the status quo. and the regional level and number of arab countries, especially oil-producing gulf states, have every interest in spearheading the counterrevolution that would keep reform especially as regards introducing

participatory government, rule of law and fighting corruption away from their shores. the way popular uprising was dealt with in barbering is quite telling. these are the countries that have enormous financial resources and need the capacity to move public opinion. you ask on the other hand, together with some other industrialization, mostly european with all the clout they can muster internationally have every interest in maintaining the status quo in those oil-producing countries, irrespective of how badly democratic values are treated in reform is needed. more importantly, the interest the u.s. has in seeing that no change may take place in the arab world adversely affects the israeli interest played a major role in the efforts exerted by

the events and influencing the course of events in the arab world. the u.s. has apparently determined that it has no interest in the middle east that outlier even vary from the israeli interest. witnessed a u.s. veto of the u.n. security council resolution declaring illegal and calling for a hault to the settlement that president obama had already declared illegal in his speech addressing the islamic world from cairo. also telling is the unprecedented multiple standing ovations mr. netanyahu, the strongest proponent of building settlements, has received in the u.s. congress. it would be not far-fetched to assume that the u.s. and certain european countries coordinates their efforts with some gulf states and directing the course of events in some arab countries.

the process of change may not be painted with the same brush in countries where reform or change is needed. the elements that have influenced our may influence change in tunisia or egypt are not the same in libya or yemen. nor do they resemble the -- that may motivate the forces of change in syria for example. i would like now to focus briefly on two countries that are undergoing change and that generate more interest in the u.s. at least than any other country in the arab world and that is egypt and syria. what? [inaudible]

okay. the overwhelming popular uprising in egypt has managed to dislodge peaceful way, at least on the part of the egyptian forces of change, a well entrenched leader very close to the u.s. and the west and there are a few thoughts could be removed with such speed. but the process of change in egypt is far from over. international and regional forces in cooperation with the egyptian army and remaining political apparatus are spreading new efforts in trying to control the direction change will take. the u.s. government has -- from the staunch supporter of the mubarak and other corrupt regimes into a champion of perform in egypt and beyond and it has undertaken to financially support such reform. egypt has traditionally played

the role of leader of the arab world, promoting its influence in defending its sites especially championing the palestinian cause. egypt has achieved a position of unique political prominence regionally and internationally with the sadat and mostly mubarak regime in egypt has lost that role and with that much of its influence in the arab world and also in the african continent. i submit that the expanded influence of iran and the middle east and the emerging -- are due primarily to egypt as the leader of the arab world and primary defender of its tribes. would egypt be allowed to remain or to reclaim and assume its role as leader of the arab world

and champion of the palestinian cause? this remains to be seen although perceived developments don't seem promising. with respect to syria, let me be clear from the start. i believe that reform is badly needed in terms of participatory government, rule of law and fighting corruption in addition to giving much more attention to issues of social justice. i believe syria -- serious and timely reform is in the best interest of the regime and of syria as a nation vested with playing a very important role in defending arab rights and should be diligently carried out. this however does not relieve us from the duty to take a closer look at the course developers have taken in syria since the beginning of the popular unrest.

the streets of damascus and other major cities have not seen the intensity of popular demonstrations that cairo and other major cities have witnessed in egypt. notwithstanding the brutality used by the security forces in egypt, to put down the demonstrations -- there was no reciprocation or use of weapons on the part of the demonstrations. the same cannot be said about syria. members of the security forces who make mistakes or committed crimes in dealing with demonstrators should account for that action in a court of law. [applause] but, but this does not provide the demonstration with the writer justification for carrying arms and using them

against official servicemen. according to official sources, armed vigilante's have killed 230 members of security forces and army so far and any others have been wounded. the laws and protections that apply to peaceful demonstrations are fundamentally different from those applicable in armed insurrection's. the bias and deliver distortion in the media coverage, especially by some regional and international tv stations of the events in syria which has led to the resignation of highly respected professional correspondence and anchorman, the smuggling of weapons into syria and the declaration of the syrian foreign ministry that syria has received offers to help e.'s the internal tension against change in the city on foreign-policy.

it all indicates that the syrian uprising may be subject to external manipulation. all the more reason for the ruling elite to carry out without delay all needed reforms. such reform would consolidate and immunize the internal -- to foreign interference and enable syria to effectively defend its national interest and play a leading role and nationally beneficial process of change in the arab world. one final issue i would like to address, which seems to be an emerging reality now. and that is the promotion of secondary identities and affiliations. the promotion of sectarian, ethnic and tribal identities has primary components of clinical structure and allocation of rights and interests within the

states play a socially divisive role and constitute an impediment to building a modern state. in a modern state primary allegiance to the state and its laws which are the source of fundamental rights and freedoms and extend their equal protection to all citizens. participatory governments, basic civil rights and protection of human dignity are found in modern state laws and institutions and not sectarian or private rule. for those in the u.s. and the west in general who are bent on encouraging such a trend, i would like to say that it is short-sighted and self deceiving to think that the promotion of religious and sick carrion affiliation as a basis of political organizations and entitlements would be an

effective way to give arabs position and divert their attention from the palestinian goals. it would undermine our -- and weaken the state, it is true, but it would create a breeding ground for the emergence outside the control of the state of politically motivated -- who draw legitimacy from what they believe is the will of the people. ..

>> only because of his standing about the palestinian question. hamas has gained political prominence among palestinians because it has adopted a policy of armed resistance, and not because it calls for the application of sharia for palestinians. it is not beyond reason to think that muslim brothers who are positioned to take immoral prominent control into emerging reality apparently with u.s. support both in egypt and syria will need to take a clear and strong stance on the palestinian question to bolster religious tendency in the -- in their prospective societies.

>> this is what the government should realize. the only reality worth working for in the middle east is the fair and equitable settlement of the arab-israeli comfort. all else is investment in future problem. and widen the divide and increases the alienation between the u.s. and arab world. [applause] [applause] >> use this one. >> this does not work?

>> here. two distinguished people who have preceded me have thrown the light of different angles on many of the issues that have came up in our -- all of our conversations in the last few months. what was described as the arab spring is that spring is one of the -- it is an awesome winter/summer heated debate, et cetera. arab spring is not a permanent fix. what is permanent, what has been proven in the last few months since the uprising in tunisia, subsequently in the egypt and other places is that the arab people for the first time many,

many, many centuries are a people who have no fear any more of suspicious, of marginality, of depression, of dictatorship, they have liberated themselves from fear and they are a fearless nation. and the nation is the people not the government. so in that sense, this has been a liberation from fear. in a way it sort of an echo of president roosevelt saying there's nothing to fear but fear itself. this is what we are worrying about. is that we are going to be faced in the arab world as a hole with problems.

it's the fear that the arab people have unleased many of their subpressed demands. it has brought to the forefront that dignity is central and dignity means freedom from wants, freedom from oppression, and the fulfillment of human dignity. so the term dignity is no longer an abstraction which we advocate , dignity has become a policy to be sought after, to be implemented, and executed. in that respect, what has taken place in the last few months and still is is an upheaval of the arab spirit. it is an encouragement where we did not expect in my lifetime to

witness although many of us in this country and in other countries have worked for it. and therefore we must realize a moment of self in order that we can navigate the complexities that are arising as a result of arab awakening. as a result of people advocating instant solutions to problems are those advocateing gradual solutions to problems as we were witnessing only today in yemen. there's no doubt that what we are experiencing is how to

manage complexity in the arab world in order to avoid managing chaos. and it is this where we need in our process of advocating policies to be proceeded by self-criticism because if we don't other self-differences we might lead to self-erosion and selfless structure. we are still faced with many socioeconomic problems in many of the areas and has dr. shehata has mentioned, there has been demonization of the economic possibilities in the arab revolution. there is going to be many enemies who will be talking nicely, but they are going to

undermine these revolutionary developments. in many ways, we have to be careful. we have to be wise. you should not be easily provoked and we should not on the other hand provoke. this is a serious undertaking of renaissance. the arab world today is in a ferment were state of ferment. on one hand, we have still a country like sudan where it's split into two. why? because they did not centralize the issue of citizen. citizen means equality of citizens. equality of rights and equality of responsibilities. and when you feel discriminated as an abc experiences all the time, when you feel

discriminated, you don't belong to the area where discrimination is prevalent or dumped. and that is why people recoil. we in the arab world still have many discriminatory practices, even in the revolutionary processes that arab may or may have down. that is why the centrality of our objective as committed to arab renaissance is the community of citizenship irrespective of race, religious, or sex. and in that sense, we can bring about the of unity of citizenship as the central objective to defying the rights of citizens. unless we do that, we are going

to keep splitting into tribes, sectors, religious groups. therefore secularism in the arab world is not the separation as people say between religion and state. sectorrism is in the context of an arab national perspective. secularism is a separation of the state from the religious political authority of religious institutions. not separating the state from religion. everybody has a religious devotion of belonging, maybe few don'ts. but the majority, the huge majority has not. i wondered, i think this

question of thinking so adamantly, is a false reality. secularism in the arab world. this has been a carton of principal of this renaissance before it begins to divert it's positions from islamicism or christianism, or whatever. it has to redefine the community of citizenship unless that is done we will be submitted to further break in our unity and in the renaissance. self-criticism, therefore, is an absolute requirement to bring about enlightenment. in this respect, we have to go again and examine. we are a rich nation in the arab

world of poor people. that reality has to be at rest immediately. we have to address it in a form of having a policy of equality of opportunity and equity in the solution of wealth. we cannot have a rich nation and poor people. they don't co-exist. there is two nations then. and that is where they will be. and it is very important that the countries who are trying to circumvent in many ways what has taken place in yemen and the impact of it has to realize that they are an imperative necessity

to join and not to act on the bases of having strategic and economic forces. and that is where the united states becomes an invested community -- an invest the power to translate it's values. this is motion not only for our economic and sustainable development. not only for our women empowerment. not only for our human and humane rights, but it is also important to resolve and address the very objective and functional and determined manner, the issues of palestine. because it remains if it remains unresolved, much of the renaissance will be eroded. if it is a result, it would by

that resolution enable the arabs to sustain the renaissance. this is the test. the fact that we have to shape that, for example, therefore, we have to correct the language in dealing with the issue of palestine. there's no such thing as freezing sacrament. when you ask freezing sacrament, you are giving a weapon to president obama -- to netanyahu to say we'll freeze. and freezing is impossible. you are to ask and that is the function of all of arab in this country. you don't freeze settlement, you dismantle settlements. that is the issue. you don't allow mr. netanyahu to

ask the question and you fall into the trap. i then peace with israel and hamas. to hell with israel if it's going to cost the unity of the palestinian people. we have to realize the participation of jerusalem would mean the participation of jere -- jerusalem and in that respect, we have no know we have a collective responsibility towards palestine. and it has been shown by certain incremental steps one is egypt's revolution has been able to inform israel. once and for all, any further

violation of palestinian rights is that impurity which has to be costly for you. and that has been done by forcing hamas to unite as one national community as one national resistance movement. if they do that, that is why that became a threat to israel when netanyahu accomplished with these moronic clapping that has taken place that live in peace with israel or peace with hamas. and that's why we have to be very firm in our advocacy, and imperty has to be costly. further more, when israel receives gas from egypt at the

lower cost than the egyptian consumer, that is humiliation that has been inflected on egypt and the arabs by the so-called peace treaty between israel and egypt. that is why egypt has become as we mentioned a central and pivotal role. because it is at the cross roads of the arab nation. because it is the state, the arab nation which has institutional structures and that is why it is absolutely necessary for jordanian, palestinian, everyone in the arab world that egypt sustains

because only then renaissance will be infectious. this has to be the challenge for the arab-american community that we have to behave in the united states as not a reflection or a mirror of the deviciveness that has taken place in the arab world, but as the east of the unity that ought to be challenging for the unity of the arab nation itself. want to know. it is because of that responsibility here is to confront and lobbies distortions of all of our objectives. it is important that we realize that we have a variety of

degrees of the development of the arab countries. we have also a variety of revolutionary expressions, we have the unfortune connect that in between the two revolutions, the sunnies and in egypt, that area of fraction, namely libya, will dwell in oil and possibility in population and in between the two successful revolutions, that was the place where we had to salvage it. maybe we will. temporarily, we have to adjust with the moral unease that we

feel that nato has to under take that mission and that is the affection in the international geopolitical system. however, despite many of these ups and downs in our emotional expressions, in our assessment of the revolutionary development, and in the realization that the threat of zionism and israel becomes further and further threatening because the very thoughts of the arab is the only way that we will liberate palestine and liberate the jews from the dehue mill -- dehumiliation of the jews. let us awe in this moment of historical change. a moment when the enlightment of

the arab is on the threshold of becoming. the sea that has been corrected by the presence and by the wisdom, step criticism, and commitment to which the community of arab citizenship. thank you very much. >> with the person again. i'm sorry. >> i think, for example, as was

mentioned by david, the passive support of having the sustainability of the power in bahrain through the gulf and the fact that it was typically criticized is not sufficient. we cannot accept the fact that they raise the priority of confrontation with iran over the confrontation of israel. we have to rectify that. doesn't mean we support iran or not support iran. it is important that we do not allow a deflection on our strategic priorities. and i think that has to be an approach of the arab revolutions

in their successful to contain this defection of possibilities in order to bring back the gulf countries into the arab fold because their responsibility as is the responsibility of mutual, the mutual. arab world is responsible for the gulf and the gulf is responsible to enhance the renaissance. it is not -- it is crucial that the united states as it is doing in yemen today to encourage and the split in the revolution of the elements and among the uprising taking place. that is crucial. i think that there are many people in the gulf who under this. first of all, on a strategic

basis, we cannot have the privacy of the threat of iran with the privacy of the threat of israel is paramount. we cannot have a evolution in yemen, for example, because we have to have as the revolution of the young people are saying, we need transitional council. we don't need a compromise with the regime of the -- the old regime. despite the fact that maybe the leader would not be with it. it is important to help the renaissance. i think the united states which is seeking to articulate it's values on the global level should let it's values become much more determining of hezbollah. >> thank you.

before we take some questions to the panel, i have some very quick question for you i might have a sort answer. emerging perhaps it would lead it to much of the subject, touching the subject lightly. lead us into arab unity, the european style with the trades and treaties to further steps and the unity that you and i even think of the arab community all of our life. mostly all generations of the arabs, throughout the middle east think of it as truly with the new reality, arab unity could arise. >> if you ask this question seven months ago, i would say, you know, you don't have to ask for it. it doesn't look good at all. but now i can say every reasonable suggestion, whether it's the arab common law, whether it is the arab common attempt at educational stats, if

you tell me all of these now have become from the realm of unrealism to a new possible. i think -- let my add something about -- i think this is the moment where there is a new sector of the arab league that what i have allocated all of this time, even at the moments of arab depression is that there must be a function of civil societies in policymaking and now is the time for the arab league not to become something that we dismiss or marginalize as if it is -- this time the arab league as it has been functioning as the legal

government, now it has to become the league of the arab people governments and civil societies. and in that respect, the arab league would be the first stage in realizing committed coordination between the arab states and not between the arab government. the arab government -- the arab league has been behaving as if it's legal fire of government, not the legal fire of states. states as government and people. and civil society. and therefore, i will answer the question that all the constructive proposals of the economic common market perhaps also and economic money is no longer in the realm of impossible. it has become as a result of what we witnessed today within the realm of the feasible and the possible and the real. >> wonderful.

we would like to take the question. i'd like to have you line up right there in the step there. >> hello. do we have a microphone? >> please make it brief. because we are running out of time. >> you know, i think we need this one for the panel. so i would like you to have -- >> half an hour. >> with an agenda; right? [laughter] >> equality. >> i will go first. i'm sad to inform we have ten minutes for the questions and answers. i'm very sorry. thank you. >> no problem. just yesterday in the panel, one the panel facilitators said -- they raised the question if not rhetorical, are the arabs ready

for democracy? which really was in disdense for me, an anthropologist to anything that is -- here he is defending that thing. i just want to start with that. i was commenting from all of the panel. the next thing is i got the idea that we have fear and self-empowerment and actually taking responsibility which is a transfer of a transformation of self-inin -- of self in a sense and taking responsibility. i will come to the rest of it in a second. because things are so fluid, admitly, continue to be fluid for some time, what are then the entry points for us to help solidify the laying the in