have economically and politically. some of what i have read. >> tell us what you are reading this summer. >> welcome back to booktv's live coverage of the 2011 roosevelt reading festival from the franklin d. roosevelt presidential library and museum. up next, susan dunn's efforts to exchange the democratic party. [inaudible conversations] ..

>> and this year's group of authors reflect the wide variety of research done here. we are delighted to highlight our researchers' work at book talks throughout the year, and especially with this, our annual reading festival. before we get to our speaker, i want to quickly go over a few housekeeping matters. first, if you have cell phones or pagers turn them off or turn them to vibrate. also, after our speakers talk, we will move out next to the new deal store where you can purchase your books and have the authors sign them. and i would like to acknowledge the presence of our friends from c-span who are here today. we appreciate, as always, their support and participation and the good work they do at bringing the festival into the homes of those who are not able to come to hyde park in person.

and now it is my pleasure to introduce our speaker this afternoon, professor susan dunn. in addition to being a great friend of the roosevelt library, she is also the preston parish third century professor of arts and humanities at williamstown college located not far from here in massachusetts. professor dunn will be speaking today about her latest book, "roosevelt's purge: how fdr fought to change the democratic party," that was publish inside 2010 by harvard university's bell nap press. it has justly received the henry adams prize, and it was a finalist for the los angeles times book prize in history. professor dunn is also the co-author with the incomparable james mcgregor burns of the three roosevelts, patrician leaders who transformed america as well as a 2004 biography of george washington. among susan's many other books are 2010's dominion of memories, and sister revolutions: french

lightning, american light published in 2004. and now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome professor susan dunn. [applause] >> thank you, bob. bob clark is the senior archivist here at the fdr library, and he is a genius, and he and lynn run a magnificent presidential archive. it's a great honor for me as the daughter of a refugee from nazi germany to be speaking here in the home of my idol, franklin roosevelt. well, this story begins in november, 1936, when fdr won a landslide election. every state in the union except maine and vermont joined in the strong vote of confidence in if roosevelt and the new deal. on election night fdr was home in hyde park listening to the

radio and reading the press tickers. as the astonishing results came in, he leaned back in his chair, blew a ring of cigarette smoke at the ceiling and said, wow. he beat the republican of kansas by a margin of 11 million votes. he won 523 electoral votes to only eight for landon. it was a stupendous, unequivocal mandate to fulfill the promises of the new deal. but soon after that earthquake election the political winds shifted, and that overwhelming mandate proved to be fragile. by the spring of 1937, roosevelt's long honeymoon with congress was over. and by 1938 things were falling apart. the country was sliding back into recession, and the supreme

court was declaring unconstitutional key new deal legislation. but it was not only economics and checks and balances that frustrated roosevelt. he confronted another problem, too, there was a serious cleavage within his own party. it was true the democrats held staggering majorities in both houses of congress, but that huge democratic majority was deceptive. because conservative democrats, many of whom were from the south, were allying themselves with republicans and voting together to strike down key new deal bills. and yet when those conservative democrats were up for re-election, they ran on fdr's coat tails and milked the magical name roosevelt for all it was worth. but when it came to voting, they were happy to knock down new

deal programs. and so fdr made a tough decision. well, it was an impulsive decision, an emotional decision and would turn out to be a poorly-managed plan. he decided to spend much of the summer of 1938 traveling across the country and intervening in democratic primary races. he decided to go to rallies and speak out against conservative incumbents and in favor of liberal challengers. he was one angry guy. he was frustrated and deeply resentful at being blocked by member of his own party who had the nerve, the chutzpah, to exploit his own name and his own popularity when it was to their advantage. he was boiling mad.

what was his goal? the goal was to oust conservatives from the democratic party and make that party solidly progressive. and he assumed that the gop would become a solidly conservative party. it made no sense for the nation to have, as he said, a democratic tweed l dumb and a republican tweedledee. he believed that the country needed two effective and responsible political parties, each ideologically consistent and united, each supporting its leaders and offering voters meaningful choices at election time. but he didn't seem to realize that the republican party, the party of lincoln, was still anathema in the south. and, apparently, he didn't understand the strong emotional and cultural ties that the south had to the democratic party.

southerners believed that the democratic party was their party, and conservative southern democrats were not about to take a hike over to the gop. still, fdr was immensely popular in the south and so popular that he thought he could risk engaging in primary fights. there's a story about a southern schoolteacher and her class that illustrates fdr's quasidivine status below the mason dixon line. i wish i could tell this story with a southern accent, but as you can hear the only accent i can do is a new york accent. [laughter] children, who paveed the road in front of your house, asked the teacher. in response the chorus, roosevelt. who put electricity into your house for you? roosevelt. who gave your uncle a job in the wpa? roosevelt.

who got your granddaddy an old age pension? roosevelt. all right, children, now, who made you? [laughter] after a moment of silence, one little boy asserts stoutly, god. whereupon a barefoot boy leaps up in the back row and yells, throw that sorry republican out of here. [laughter] now, the whole idea of ejecting conservatives from the democratic party was very much out of character for roosevelt. because he'd always been a charmer who showered people with his personal mag anytism and charisma -- magnetism and charisma, not with his bile. he was known for cajoling and persuading people of both parties to support his legislation. he prided himself on knowing how to work with friends and adversaries alike.

while he was governor of new york, he once explained that he had to work with people he neither liked, nor trusted. but it was necessary to do so in order to reach his ultimate goal. roosevelt was an expert in tacking with the wind. as president he lavished his talents for flattery, wheedling, horse trading, even his talent for deception on senate and house leaders. he almost always found ways to reconcile opposing interests, and he won the support of politicians north and south, east and west. people who knew him spoke about his magnetism. he just poured it on. seeing him smile or hearing him laugh, people said, was like uncorking a bottle of champagne. i think that his buoyant, sunny personality may have been one of

the most precious gifts he gave to americans during the depths of the depression. that combination of his seductive charm, contagious optimism and self-confidence restored hope to a broken nation. but franklin roosevelt also loved a good fight. in april 1938 when things were turning sour for him, "the new york times" reported that the president's dutch was up, referring to his famous temper. the man of charm could also be a ferocious opponent. just remember the campaign speech he gave in 1936 before the 1936 election in madison square garden. referring to the wealthy financial barons and economic royalists, he said: they are unanimous in their hate for me, and i welcome their hatred.

can you imagine president obama saying anything that bellicose and confrontational? and in that same speech roosevelt repeated the militant refrain: for all these things we have only just begun to fight. and if there was any doubt about his readiness to fight, to improve working conditions, end child labor, help farmers, homeowners and the unemployed, he repeated a few months later: we gave warnings last november that we had only just begun to fight. did some people really believe we department mean it? -- we didn't mean it? well, i meant it. now, let me pause, change gears and describe for you a sporting event. and it's available on youtube. on june 22nd thousands of people poured into yankee stadium.

does anyone here know what that event was? you're not old enough. it was the boxing match of the decade, the american boxer joe lewis, "the brown bomber," was going to defend his world heavyweight title in a rematch against the german max schmelling. people traveled from all over the nation to witness the fight. there were hollywood stars like cary grant and edward g. robinson, my favorites, and political insiders like new york governor herbert lehman. there wasn't an empty seat in yankee stadium. the country was suddenly immobilized as millions of americans, half the nation's population, listened for free on the radios in their kitchens and living rooms. nbc sports announcer kreme

mccarthy gave the electrifying blow-by-blow description of schmelling's first round collapse under the relentless downpour of lewis' fists. as you can see, i'm a boxing fan, so let me give you the final seconds. schmelling is going down, schmelling is down! the count is four, it's -- and he's up! and lewis, right and left to the head, a left to the jaw, a right to the head. right to the body, left up to the jaw, and schmelling is down. the count is five, six, seven, eight. the men are in the ring, the fight is over! schmelling is beaten in the first round. the fight lasted 2:04, and it was over. personally, i'm not sure about flying 3,000 miles for a two-minute match -- [laughter] but on the other hand, you'd have a dining-out story for the rest of your life. why do i mention the boxing

match of the century? is well, obviously, because i love that match. but, also, because two cay day -- two days later president roosevelt, too, climbed into the ring. on june 24th he gave a fireside chat and discussed what he intended to do about the problem of the conservative bloc in the democratic party. it was an unusually hot evening in washington, and at the beginning of the fireside chat fdr joked that the fireside was the last place where americans wanted to imagine themselves on that sweltering night. after talking about the accomplishments of the new deal, he got to the meat of his talk. his dual role as president and as party leader. as president, he said, he wouldn't ask americans to vote for democrats or republicans. nor or am i, as president, taking part in democratic

primaries, he said. but he was also the head of the democratic party, and he explained that he had the responsibility of leaving his party in a lib -- of leading his party in a liberal direction and carrying out the 1936 party platform. so he felt that it was his right and duty as party leader to speak out in the upcoming democratic primaries and support liberal candidates who stood by him and the new deal. he tried to make it clear that he would not oppose candidates who disagreed with him on just one or two issues, like court packing or recent controversial bill to reorganize the executive branch. he would, however, work to prevent the election of the people he called outspoken reactionaries and hypocrites, the kind of politicians who appear to agree with a progressive objective but who

always find some reason to oppose specific proposals. well, the following day, right on cue, editorial writers around the nation slammed the president's talk and dubbed his plan a purge. and purge was one provocative, inflammatory word in 1938. it obviously reminded reader of recent grim events in the soviet union. stalin's murderous purges of senior colleagues in the communist party. in fact, just that past march one of the largest of the moscow show trials had taken place and ended with the executions of all 21 defendants. so newspapers in america piled on. the conservative chicago daily

tribune wrote that if fdr succeeded in his own purge, the only people remaining in the democratic party would be hitler yemen or stalin communist. and another famous columnist announced that roosevelt resembled hitler because he was demanding absolute personal power and a purely nominal legislature. fdr's purge expedition started in early july, just two weeks after his fireside chat. he traveled comfortably in his own ten-car air-cooled train. eighty other passengers joined him onboard; secretaries, assistants, cooks, military aides, a few friends as well as radio engineers and announcers, newsreel cameramen, photographers and 30 reporters.

more reporters traveled with him that summer than covered his 1936 re-election campaign. so during the summer of 1938 roosevelt's train zigzagged across the continent making stops at rallies in ohio, kentucky, down to arkansas, west to oklahoma, down to texas, back up to colorado, further west to nevada until he finally reached california. after a stops in san francisco and l.a., he boarded a navy vessel and went on a fishing cruise to the galapagos islands with some close friends for a few weeks of vacation. then the ship passed through the panama canal, and he disembarked in florida. he went to warm springs for a few days, gave some speeches in georgia and south carolina and

then, finally, returned to washington in if late august. in late august. let me give you a picture of what happened at one of the stops, the one in barnesville, georgia, in the august. it was a dry, scorching day with temperatures in the mid 90s. the little down of barnesville had a population of only 3,000, but for the day it became the focal point of the nation. as 40,000 people poured into town to see and hear their hero. officially, the president had come to dedicate a rural electrification project that would supply power to the central parts of georgia. but some people rightly suspected that something else was cooking. the speaker's platform was gayly decorated with stars and stripes

and red, white and blue bunting and seated on the platform were the president and georgia's distinguished senator, walter george, who was up for re-election. george was an old school southerner with formal, chifl rouse manners. he always refer today his wife as miss lucy, and she called him mr. george. he seemed to come right out of central casting. al seated on the platform was a young attorney named lawrence camp whom roosevelt was going to endorse. so there sat george on the platform not displaying any emotion. walter george, in fact, was not a diehard reactionary or an outspoken adversary of the president. in 1933 he'd supported virtually all of fdr's proposals including the national industrial recovery

act, tva, agricultural adjustment act. later he voted for social security, the national labor relations act and other new deal measures. and during the 1936 presidential campaign george had backed roosevelt all the way. but during fdr's second term he cast votes against some key administration bills including housing bills, court reform, executive reorganization and the wages and hours bill. roosevelt began his talk by discussing the achievements of the rural electrify case administration. it was one of the great new deal successes. before it the free market economy had left much of rural america literally in the dark. then fdr spoke about coming to georgia for the first time 14

years ago in search of a pool of warm water where he might swim his way back to health. and he came to love warm springs in georgia, but he told his audience that there was one discordant note in his first stay at warm springs. when the monthly bill came in for electric light for my little cottage, he said, i found that the charge was four times as much as i was paying in hyde park. someone in the audience shouted, we hear you! and someone else yelled out, they were just trying to rob us poor people! but roosevelt explained that the economic and social problems facing the south were more complex than the price of electricity. he dampened the crowd's festive mood by describing the many problems afflicting the south. it's my conviction, he said,

that the south presents right now the nation's number one economic problem. the nation's problem -- not merely the south's -- for we have an economic unbalance in the nation as a whole due to this very condition in the south itself. it's an unbalance that we can't -- that can and must be righted for the sake of the south and of the nation. then he got closer to the heart of the subject and announced that the task of meeting the economic and social needs of the south called for public servants whose hearts are sound, whose heads are sane, whose hands are strong. the people of georgia, he said, needed senators and representatives who were willing to stand up and fight night and day.

so now the crowd smelled blood. they were really more interested in hearing the president swoop down for the kill than in listening to a talk about electricity rates and southern problems. roosevelt took pains to assure voters that he was not interfering in the internal politics of georgia. oh, no. he said the georgia voters had a perfect right to choose any candidates they wished. at this point some people shouted, hooray for george! and others yelled, good-bye, george. [laughter] roosevelt explained that the president's job was to work with congressmen and senates to translate progressive objectives into action. but he complained that some of them gave only lip service to those objectives without even

raising their little fingers actively to attain them. now, my friends, what i'm about to say will be no news. let me make it clear that senator george is, and i hope always will be, my personal friend. [laughter] he is beyond question, beyond any possible question a gentleman and a scholar. and then with george quietly seated just a few feet behind him on the podium, the president lowered the boom. here in georgia my old friend, the senior senator from this state, cannot possibly in many my judgment -- in my judgment be classified as belonging to the liberal school of thought. on most public questions, he and i do not speak the same language. i have no hesitation in saying

that if i were able to vote in the september primaries in this state, i most assuredly should cast my ballot for lawrence camp. bang. when the speech was over, george received some cheers of support and other more mischievous shouts of, "good-bye, george." but george himself was a gentleman. he left his seat, approached the president, reached out for his hand and said for all to hear, "mr. mr. president, i regret that you have taken this occasion to question my democracy and to attack my public record. i want you to know that i accept the challenge in the friendly spirit in which it was given." [laughter] shaking george's hand, roosevelt said, "god bless you, walter,

let's always be friends." let me describe briefly one other campaign stop on roosevelt's purge itinerary. on labor day weekend, he traveled to maryland to speak at rallies against maryland's democratic senator, millard tidings. actually, roosevelt felt some affection for a conservative like walter george, but he had nothing but loathing for millard tidings. one day he muttered to interior secretary harold dickeys, take tidings' hide off and rub salt in it. tidings had opposed nearly every new deal measure. the nra, the tva, the agricultural adjustment act, the wagner act, works progress administration, housing bills,

revenue act and court reform. even on social security he voted only present. and in a veiled attack on fdr, he even warned of home grown dick dictatorship. and yet tidings was completely aware of the president's extraordinary popularity and also insisted that he embraced the bones of the new deal. so fdr entered maryland on labor day weekend before the maryland primary and gave speeches for the challenger, liberal democrat davy lewis. as for tidings, fdr never pronounced his name. he told crowds only that any politician had the right to be liberal, conservative and even reactionary. but, he said, the nation cannot stand for the confusion of having him pretend to be one and

act like the other. well, what finally happened? george, tidings, south carolina senator smith and the other conservative incumbents all won their primary contests and won re-election too. roosevelt managed to defeat only one conservative; john o'connor, the congressman from new york and chairman of the powerful house rules committee. the purge was a flop. what were the main reasons for the failure? it's a long list. the liberal challengers whom roosevelt supported were mostly political amateurs and disorganized amateurs. the incumbents had their own well-organized political machines. many state newspapers supported the incumbents. people resented roosevelt's

interfering in state and local politics, and roos veld had not -- roosevelt had not given himself and his staff and democratic party organizers nearly enough time to carefully build up liberal bases. roosevelt did not succeed in his ultimate goal which was party realignment. but the purge did herald the realignment that would take place as i discuss in detail in my book in the 1960s, '70s and '80s after the civil rights act of 1964 and 1965 and after nix son and reagan's so-called southern strategies. today the once solidly democratic south is solid no more. what happened in the immediate

aftermath of the purge? roosevelt had to make nice with all of the senators he'd alienated. but what interested me about this mismanaged affair the most is that after the election many of the economic and social conservatives whom roosevelt had sought to ban itch from -- banish from his party, especially the ones from the south, became his staunchest allies in the buildup to the war and in the battle against isolationists in congress. from 1938 to 1940, country after country fell to hit her's naked aggression -- hitler's naked aggression. czechoslovakia, poland, norway, denmark, belgium, holland, france and in the east japan invaded china and french indochina. roosevelt desperately needed the

support of internationalists and interventionists in congress, and the southern contingent in congress was the most internationalist, interventionist and the least isolationist in the nation. the president needed and received their support. walter george and other conservative senators who were not new deal enthusiasts energetically backed fdr on the buildup to the war. people like josiah bailey of north carolina, tidings of maryland, cart carter glass and harry byrd of virginia and others. carter glass had been one of the very few people in congress who opposed social security, but not only did he support fdr on the war, he thought that the president was too restrained.

he wanted him to blast hitler off the map, and glass was a strong supporter of selective service and lend-lease. millard tidings, whose hide fdr had wanted to strip off, said that he would rather have a ready and prepared army and not need it than need it and not have it. and he supported selective service. senator john overton of louisiana and richard russell of georgia even amended that select i have service -- selective service bill to allow the governors to seize industrial plants if their owners refused to accept government defense contracts. and in 1950 a dozen year after the purge, tidings was virtually the only senator with the courage to stand up to joe

mccarthy. after mccarthy's committee -- sorry, after tidings' committee investigated mccarthy's reckless accusations, tidings stood up on the senate floor and announced that they were a fraud and a hoax. and even harold ickies, one of the purge's most fervent champions, made an bout face and praised tidings. but in 1950 tidings lost his seat in the senate to mccarthy's own hand-picked candidate. by taking down the prime target on roosevelt's hit list of 1938, mccarthy accomplished what roosevelt could not. and i wonder what fdr would have thought about the defeat of his new deal foe at the hands of joe mccarthy. there are many lessons to be

learned from the purge that i discuss in my book, but the simplest ones may be that, first, it's probably best to play the cards you're dealt. second, a majority party needs to be a big tent party. and third, an effective president has to be a strong party leader and a hard-working party builder. in conclusion, let me describe another story from the summer of 1938, and you can also see it on youtube. because the whole universe is on youtube. [laughter] that july a care-free young pilot named douglas corrigan flew from new york to los angeles. the problem was that he landed in dublin, ireland. [laughter]

where am i, he asked the astonished airport workers in dublin. i intended to fly to california. he had flown without landing papers, without passport, without radio, no instruments, not even a map. my compass went wrong, he said. newspapers and even hollywood ate up the story of wrong-way corrigan. [laughter] his stunt gave depression-weary americans something, finally, to laugh about. and when he returned to new york, he was showered with confetti and a ticker-tape parade downtown. well, fdr wanted to be like joe lewis, but he wound up like wrong-way corrigan heading in the wrong direction in the summer of 1938, and the purge was one of the few glaring

mistakes in the roosevelt's long, courageous, compassionate and superb political career. thank you. [applause] >> folks, we're running just a little bit long, and i want to make sure you all want to have a chance to get your booked, so susan -- book signed, so susan will answer any questions you have out at the signing table. so have a nice break, and we'll see you back for the next session. thank you. [inaudible conversations]

>> susan dunn discussing her recent book, "roosevelt's purge: how fdr fought to change the democratic party." booktv's live coverage from the 2011 roosevelt reading festival will continue in about 15 minutes with greg robinson's discussion of his latest publication, "a tragedy of democracy: japanese confinement in america." more from the franklin d. roosevelt presidential library and museum in hyde park, new york, after this break. we asked, what are you reading this summer? here's what you had to say.

>> send us a tweet at booktv using hash tag summer reading to let us owe what you plan on reading this summer. you can also e-mail us, booktv at c-span.org. >> well, a new self-published book out on the market. it's written by richard toliver, and we are joined by richard. mr. toliver, who is that on the cover of this book? >> well, that's a young richard toliver, an air force fighter pilot of a few years ago, and it was taken during a time that i

was very fortunate to be involved in the f-16 aircraft. >> when was that? >> 1974-1976, to be exact. >> why'd you write a book? >> well, after i had gone through life, retired from the air force, looked back over some 50 years, i realized that i'd had some very unique experiences in my life, and be i'd met some very unique people. and all of them, the experiences and the people, made a significant difference as to who i was at that time. and so i decided, with the encouragement of my family, to write the story of those people who i called uncaged eagles, the people that were providentially placed in my life all along the way. i must admit, i didn't know who they were, and i didn't know that was actually taking place at the time. but when you get to be about 65 years old and you have the opportunity to look backwards, then you begin to see these

things. and so i saw that there were a number of people that needed to be spoken of who made a different in my life who caused me to be who i was today, and i wanted to tell that story in the first person. >> who is one of those people? >> probably the first person was a little lady who owned a one-room store, and she gave me my first job and paid me $3 a week. on the other spectrum was a man by the name of ross perot, and he gave me an opportunity to work with him, and he paid me a few more dollars a week at that point. but in between there were people like jackie robinson, dr. martin luther king jr., there were tuskegee airmen that i became a part of as second generation-quote-unquote, and launched out into the air force. and during the struggles in my life there was always somebody there. and so i identify these people

along the way. and later the uncaged eagles were, indeed, my late mother and older sister and older brother, my next door neighbor who gave me work or encoirnlged me. and then there were other people like many people in the air force that was officers, enlisted people and so on. >> where'd you come up with the term, uncaged eagle? >> when i was younger i heard a sermon from the father of aretha franklin, and he told the story about an eagle that had unwittingly been trap inside a cage with chickens. i was about 13 when i heard that sermon, and in a way it was me he was speaking to because i was an eagle inside, but i was trapped by my circumstances, and i wanted to get free. and so i took it then, that

metaphor became dick tolirev, trapped by circumstances. and the circumstances were, in fact, the chickens or the people that didn't know that there was an eagle inside of me or a burning desire to fly airplanes. and so i took that as my way of going forward and i was going to get free one day to, in fact, fly airplanes. >> where'd you grow up, and what'd your parents do? >> at that time growing up i was near shreveport, louisiana. to be very candid, my father and my mother's marriage had failed, and six children were left alone in the deep south in the '40s and the '50s. my mother died young trying to raise her six children. and so it was not people of means or parents of great stature. but from that experience and from those who were providentially brought along into my life, it made it possible for me to go forward.

>> now, you self-published this book. why, and what was that experience like for you? is. >> well, during the air force i had spent some 20 years being a developer of small business and entrepreneurship and so on, and when i wrote the book and realized that it was going to take an enormous effort to get it published, so i set about using my business skills or experience at the time and said, i think i can do this if i figure out what it is that we need to do. and so i did, and i was able to establish a publishing team and then put together the book following the examples of the great publishers out there. i wanted to be able to put a week out there that would -- a book out there that would, indeed, look like a great publisher had done it and make sure that the story was there, the possible -- and the

processes were there, and i was able to do that. >> forward by ross perot. >> yes. ross perot is a great american that i happen to know. i was recruited by the ross perot organization back in the '90s when he was putting together united we stand america and later the reform party. and when i met ross, we both realized that we shared a common interest in our country, our god, our families and so on, and we struck up not only a professional relationship, but a personal relationship. and so when i got ready to write the book, actually, i made a visit with ross and said i want to talk about ross perot in the book, and i want to talk about him as i knew him, not as the people know him or the media knows him. and i want to tell it as ross perot up close and personal. he gave me permission to do that, and i told at least a few stories in the book about ross and his great philanthropic work and his contributions to the country. and because of that when i wrote

the book, i had another visit with ross and said, you want to take a look at this and give consideration to endorsing it? and he did. thus, the forward. >> richard toliver, an uncaged eagle: true freedom. if people are interested in the getting this book, where can they go? >> well, i have a web site now that's only available to people who get a book. it's www.anuncagedeagle.com, just as it says. that's the way they can get the book right now, or they can contact my publishing company at phone number 623-340-5768. or, peter, they might contact you, and then you in turn get the word to me, and i'll see that they get a book. >> author richard toliver. this is booktv on c-span2. >> what are you reading this

summer? booktv wants to know. >> the first book on my reading list this spring and summer was cleopatra by stacy schiff, and what a great insight in recounting her life. it was a book that was recommended to me, and so i decided to pick it up and read it and then continued with the strong woman theme, if you will, with elizabeth i. that's by margaret george, and that's on my ipad. i'm reading both of these as e-books. going back, doing these two -- cleopatra and elizabeth i -- it got me on to the historical and older novel type approach. and with my bible study group i'm rereading "pilgrim's progress," which is delightful to get back into that. it's been a while since i reread it. and then because because of a me

coming out with my family, we're rereading atlas slugged was -- shrugged which is very timely, i'll have to say, for those of us that are here in d.c.. >> tell us what you're reading this summer. send us a tweet at book the. at booktv. >> if you have walked down the streets of philadelphia or new york in the 1850s and asked somebody, well, what is the most pressing problem facing america at this time, they would have told you it's the sectarian conflict, the fact that the catholics are trying to take over. they're trying to take over america. and there was a rumor that the pope was going to come and establish headquarters in cincinnati. [laughter] now, why cincinnati, i don't know. it would seem that the pope would have better sense than that. [laughter] but nevertheless, this was the rumor. he was going to establish his headquarters at the jewish hospital in cincinnati. [laughter] now, you get this connection, it's a conspiracy. you know, americans love conspiracies.

and this was part of the conspiracy. so so far nothing about slavery, right? i mean, these guys are bent on destroying the roman catholic church, and as one northern minister said, exterm mating roman catholics. so thomas mass, the german protestant immigrant, came over, and he was one of the great political cartoonists of the day in the 1860s, he gave us santa claus, he gave us the democratic donkey and the republican elephant, and here he has a cartoon. and, of course, many people couldn't read in those days, but they could, in fact, understand cartoons. and here he has a cartoon which shows, you may think these are crocodiles coming ashore, but actually they're pillars of the

roman catholic church, and they're coming to take our children. and in the background is not the white house, but it is st. peter's cathedral. and although you can't see it on this, up here it says tamny hall. [laughter] and tamny hall, of course, is the democratic party organization of new york. and thomas was a republican. well, the republican party was the first major evangelical party in america, and it brought together the anti-catholic wing of the party with the anti-slavery wing. and here is the anti-catholic wick of the party -- wing of the party, the american patriot. it was a party newspaper for the american party which eventually folded into the republican party. they are opposed to roman catholicism, they're opposed to foreigners holding office, opposed to none ris and the

jesuits, opposed to secret foreign orders and so on. they wanted to restrict immigration but particularly restrict the rights of roman catholics to vote and to hold office. now, the republican party was the offspring of these two strains, the anti-slavery strain and the anti-catholic strain. when i say anti-slavery, keep in mind that the republican party, most of the people in the republican party did not care about slavery where it already existed. they wanted to keep the territories white. they wanted to keep the slaves out of the territories. so white men could have opportunity there because they believed that any place where slaves go, whites cannot compete, obviously, because slaves don't take wages. so the republican party billed

itself as the white man's party. now, here you have abraham lincoln, and he's debating stephen douglas in that famous 1858 senatorial campaign. the republican party's slogan that year was vanquish catholicism and slavery. and going hand in hand. now, i should tell you in full disclosure that abraham lincoln was not a religious bigot. in fact, he hated religious bigotry, but he swallowed the republican party line because it was very effective among the republican party base. you know, you've heard in the politics get out the base, get out the base. the republican party base were protestant working men in cities and farms across the northeast, new england and the midwest. and this resonated to this

constituency, this anti-catholicism. and so lincoln campaigned under that slogan in 1858. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> and booktv is at books expo america, the annual publishers' convention in new york city looking at some of the fall 2011 books that are coming out, and we're pleased to be joined by george gibson who is the publisher of bloomsbury press. mr. gibson, tell us about some of your books, and let's start here with the book on bill buckley. >> this is the first full biography of bill buckley, um, an icon, of course, of the conservative arena. um, but, and he's really the father of conservativism as it is known today. but a remarkable man, absolutely remarkable man, and very little has been written about him, and this is the first full-scale biography of him. >> did the author have access to any of his library or anything? >> he had access to every

available resource. bogus, interestingly enough, is more liberal in his persuasion, so i think it's going to fascinate people on both sides of the aisle. >> well, somebody who is not liberal in their persuasion is an author we've covered often on booktv who is victor dais hanson, but now i see a novel coming out by him. >> and this is his first novel, and remarkable, it is, ability a greek general -- about a greek general. it brings alive warfare in the ancient world that very few people can, and because he knows so much about ancient history, this book is alive with that kind of detail, so it's a fascinating thing for him to do, to write a novel, and i think it's going to be a great success. >> mr. gibson, up on your shelf here, inside mexico's criminal insurgency. >> well, um, ian brill low who is the author who has lived in mexico for the last ten years has gone inside the drug

insurgency in mexico and has interviewed everybody involved from the gang leaders to the police, and he tells the inside story of what is happening in mexico, the extraordinary upheaval in their society, um, and because he tells it from all angles you come to understand who is responsible for it. it's not just the gangs, the government bears responsibility as well, and it has a huge effect on the united states because drugs, obviously, from mexico are all over the united states. >> "american crisis." >> bill fowler is a distinguished professor of history, and we were talking a few years ago, and he said he wanted to write a book about the famous speech george washington gave to his troops in 183 -- 1783 right after the war had supposedly ended. but the war hadn't ended, and i said to bill i thought he ought to write a larger story about that. we think that the war ended in 1781 when cornwallis surrendered

to washington at yorktown. in fact, it didn't end for two more years in november of 1783. this is the story of those tumultuous and dangerous two years. the united states could have so easily have fallen apart in those years. it had no money, the states were not allied, they wouldn't give any money to pay for the armies, so the army was on the verge of mutiny. the treaty with paris had not been signed yet, so the country was in complete chaos. and in many ways washington held it together during those two years, and that's what this book is about. >> those are some of the books coming out in fall 2011 from bloomsbury. if you would, give us a snapshot of bloomsbury press. >> well, it's more than just bloomsbury press. bloomsbury usa on the adult side has the press imprint and walker and company, the main imprint does a lot of fiction, food,

natural history, um, and some sports-related titles. bloomsbury press does the history and science and current affairs and economic, and the walker list does some history and science as well, some self-improvement books and a lot of language books. >> are you selling more e-books than you are hardback books at this point? >> not more, but we're selling a great many e-books. e-book sales have grown dramatically in the last six months as they have for every publisher since christmas. they've exploded. so we are selling many more than we were at this time last year, and it's become a hugely significant part of our business. >> how would you like to see the google book settlement end? >> have oh, happily. you know, i don't know that i'd want to comment on it as a publisher, you know? i think that, obviously, what google wants to do making books available is very important, spreading its knock is -- knowledge is very important, but

it's also critically important that authors and publishers are compensated for intellectual property. so i don't think tild comment on it beyond that. >> george gibson is the publisher of bloomsbury press. thank you for a few minutes here. >> peter, thank you. >> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants to know. >> well, i'm reading ulysses by james joyce. i started that on january 1st, it's a new year's resolution of mine to plow through that book by june 16th. that's blooms day, that's the date the whole book is built around, the central character. i have a chapter to go, i don't recommend it. it's a classic, but it's inpenetrable. very hard to read, but i'll get it done. also this summer i'll be reading founders which is a ray rafael book about those who were part of the american revolution. not a lot of new ground plowed, but very interesting story, looks good to me.