armour and i'm reading james gleek's freedom of information and i'm reading outlyers by malcolm gladwell and the cosmic war. >> visit booktv.org to see this and other summer reading lists. ..

it >> and this is monticello but

when i came up to the mountaintop i was just absolutely astounded because what i saw was really the work of a revolutionary gardener who crafted his ground as carefully as he had crafted his words. it was a protectivity of the land and this combination of the rugged and wild with the neat and useful, i think, is very uniquely american and monticello can be part of jiefrgs beliefs and philosophy. we can read it like his letters, i suppose. in a way john bar tam and monticello became the inspiration of this book. and so i realized that america sat four presidents. had all used nature in one way or the other in their fight for america. for me this was really a journey

of many surprises and gave me a completely new perspective on the founding fathers. so george washington who i had known as a revolutionary hero, first president of the united states but what i didn't know was that he was more likely to talk about trees and the merits of plows rather than about politics. thomas jefferson, once i'd seen monticello i realized just what a revolutionary gardener he was and then there was james madison, father of the constitution, brilliant legal mind but what i didn't know was that he's actually the forgotten father of american environmentalism because he tried to rally the americans to protect nature and the forest. and then there was john adams, american ambassador in paris and london. what i didn't know was he also was a passionate gardener but that he also went on a garden tour in england with thomas

jefferson. and then another little slight of george washington on his plantation. so all four of them really regarded themselves as gardeners and not as politicians. when you read their letters almost every single letter will mention at some stage, gardens, harvest times -- they are talking all the time about this. and what they called their rural amusement and so it's part of their life and their passion for plants, nature, gardens and agricultures is deeply woven into the fabric of america and very much aligned with their political thoughts so they didn't just create the united states in a political sense. they also understood the importance of plants for the making of this nation. and as such, we can look at golden cornfields and rows and

rows of cotton plants as a symbol of america's economic independence from britain. we can see towering trees as a reflection of a nation that is strong, young, independent and fertile. naked species where imbued proudly planted in their gardens and it really brought plants into politics. i think it's important to not look at the making of the united states without looking as the founding fathers as garden innerne -- gardeners and as founding fathers. it's really at the economic level is the importance of good agricultural crops for the country's self-sufficiency. there was at an ideological

version of the jefferson model as an agrarian public and it works as national identity because america's spectacular landscape becomes very much invested with patriotism and it works literally and symbolically because they all used their gardens as a canvas to paint or let's say grow their political statement. let me give you an example and take you to the summer of 1776, america just declared independence. manhattan is an arm camp where soldiers drill in the streets. george washington is the commander in chief and new york is facing 30,000 british troops. it's the largest enemy fleet that has ever arrived on america's shores. washington has about half the manpower. very few of his officers have experienced battle and no one has seen warships as imposing as the ones which are sailing

towards new york. so there he is, george washington. as the city is bracing itself for the first and largest battle of the war of independence, he's actually thinking about his garden in mount vernon. one evening, just a few days before the battle of new york, he sends out his generals. he pushes away his military maps and he sits down and he writes a letter to his estate manager in mount vernon, his plantation in virginia. and with the chaos of blood and canons looming, he is asking his estate manager to design a new garden and he's talking about the flowering dogwoods, and soaring apples and pines, poplar and the magnolia. and what is even more remarkable than the timing, which i think

is quite remarkable, is that he's asking only for native species. so at the moment, at the very moment as the young nation is threatened by the almighty british army, george washington seems to think that he should create an all-american garden when no english trees are allowed to claw its roots in the soil. he continues this after the war of independence when he returns to mount vernon in 1783. he builds the bowling green with the shrubberies around it which is around the front of the house and the shrubberies are all planted with native species only. what we have to really remember, what he's doing is really extraordinary and really remarkable because until then, american gardeners were trying to recreate the garden of the old world. so they wanted to have european

plants and we can see that and very easily when we look at john bartram's customer list. so john bartram was growing here the flora from all 13 states, but his customers were english. a few english, a few germans and the few american customers he had, they actually wanted his european plants which john bartram had received from his english customers. so washington is really the first american to create an all-american ornamental garden and the question is why is this important? i think it's important because he's making a very deliberate choice. when he returns from the war of independence, he notes that he's a revolutionary hero, and he knows that mount vernon is going to be the most visited private home in the united states. and he's going to make sure that the first thing that visitors see is an all-american garden and this is a painting of mount vernon. you can see just on the side the

shrubberies that is planted with native species, and this is his view from his house and this is not a celebration of america's landscape and america species i don't know what else it should be. so john adams and thomas jefferson experienced something very similar when they go on a garden tour in 1786 in england. at that time john adams is the american minister in london. and thomas jefferson is the american minister in paris. and in spring 1786, adam writes to jefferson and asks him to join him in london to assist him with the difficult trade negotiations with the british. but they had no luck. the british hated the americans. and they had no interests, whatsoever, to assist their former colonies. and some might be the amount of meat that the british that

rendered their character incapable of incivilization. [laughter] >> what do you do like this, you go on a garden tour. washington had his aversion to britain had to admit that they created the best gardens and they must have looked rather odd pair walking together through these gardens because you have thomas jefferson all tall, thin gangly, all dressed up in french silk and kind of powdered hair, towering him 7 inches over john adams. a bit more round, a bit more stout. but despite their differences -- and there's actually one scene compared to a candlestick and a cannonball. but despite their differences, they both absolutely adored gardens. and they were both gardeners and maybe in a slightly different way so you have john adams who's very much a hands-on gardener who loved getting his hands dirty, who -- whenever he's away

from his garden, which is in quincy, which is just south of boston, is really terribly missing his farm and his garden and he's always, you know, dreaming himself into his orchard or into his garden. and whenever he's involved in political battles, he says, you know, i'd rather be digging in my potato yard. he has a quite volatile temper and he's working off his temper by kind of digging in the dirt. jefferson, a little bit more theoretical, let's say. he spends a lot of time coming up with very elaborate garden designs that never quite make it from his notebooks to the soil. he spends his evenings writing very long lists of different types of vegetables. he writes down harvest times over the years, compared them. he counts the number of peas that could fit into a glass. [laughter] >> but we also know from

visitors' accounts and some diaries that he's also out in the garden. .. >> said these are big, big landscaped gardens. they don't have a lot of time to stroll around and have a look. there are literally picking off as many gardens as possible. what this the our so-called ornamental farms which are gardens that combined the beauty of the pleasure ground with the working element, the agricultural element of a farm. so these are where you would see

sure every, but at the same time you would also see feel that pasture. this is the christian valley. you can see there is some sheep -- dixie's me, sheep in the garden. have a look at this. this combination of the useful with the beautiful very much time to with their vision of america. the continent with the beauty but also vast land that would feed the nation. both of them, jefferson and adams would later incorporate these elements in their garden in america. thank you. but one of the most exciting revelations for them was really to discover that the english garden was not conditional. in fact, the english garden was densely populated with american trees and shrubs. an idea of what kind of plants the english garden is like from

america. so the english garden loves american evergreens because only four native evergreens. the flowering dogwood and the thin stream. what they saw were actually the growth of plants that had grown over the past five decades from john barton. over the course of this card and jefferson and adams really discovered that the english were rather crazy about american trees and shrubs. so in a strange twist of irony at the very moment to that the colonies had declared independence the english garden is actually filled with american trees and shrubs. so jefferson who had for so long admired the english garden now did find it actually rather easy to regret that he liked them because the english garden was

kind of american. so he could create one in monticello without feeling a bit erratic. let me give you a slightly more speculative example about the importance of plants in the shaping of america. it is speculation to argue that a visit to jon barnes darden changed the course of history. it seems a little bit more than just pure coincidence that what happens here in the summer of 1787 with the delegate of the constitutional convention of visiting the garden. they had assembled in may 1787 in philadelphia. one of the most controversial points during the convention was out of power between the larger and the smaller states was to be distributed. and until then each state had one vote. now the larger states favored

proportional representation because that would give them greater leverage in congress well unsurprisingly the smaller states wanted to keep the one states, one-vote rule. debate was heated. by mid july the convention was that the verge of collapse. then someone suggested. on saturday the 14th of july july 17877 delegates arrived here at 6:00 in the morning. to this card and which by then it was run by john barton son, john julie. i know it is a bit off-putting, but i will send you a picture. the delegates spent three hours here. they admired the trees and shrubs that have been collected from all 13 states. wherever they turn the basically

saw yet another specimen from yet another part of the country. it seems america's entire flora was assembled here, from the trees that were collected far of north to the flowering shrubs the william had collected in florida. years they saw the trees and shrubs from the 13 states thriving together, branch is intertwined. today's letter on monday they met again to vote on the so-called plan, the connecticut plant -- connecticut plan was a compromise which suggested that the house of representatives should be based on a proportionate representation. in the sec each state should have equal votes. they had previously voted on the connecticut plant and dismiss it. but to everybody's astonishment

this time around the voting took a surprising course. three delegates switched their votes. williamson and martin, all of whom had visited bordens garden. they must change their mind after the visit because until then they had always voted differently. so we don't know how this visit influenced them in their decision making, but what we do know is that the three men who change their mind do therefore made the great compromise possible have all worked in the garden a monk's the flora from all 13 states. and leave it up to you to make the decision, but let me tell you something which is less speculative. the importance of agriculture. they all believe that

agriculture should be the foundation of the american republic. jefferson, for example, said that i think governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural. there were all experimenting with plant growth. jefferson designed a plow. washington was the first american to collective farm don. and i have to say, it kind of took me really by surprise to discover that america's first four presidents had all been utterly obsessed with newer. washington was so enraptured that he wanted a farm manager who might have liked to convert everything he touches and to maneuver. the first transition. jefferson bought up template, a charming treatise. hardly a more delightful picture then john adams as the american

minister in london in his carriage driving down the road jumping out of his carriage, jumping into a pile of manure. at the same time the other ambassadors are rushing through the corridors of st. james palace, all bejeweled. he is standing in a pile of manure teasing apart the straw from the dawn declaring with the that this sinking pile was not equal to mine. [laughter] this obsession might seem a little strange to us, but it was very much part of their political agenda. of course farming provided the livelihood of most americans at that time. they believe that the independent farmer possessed more self-sufficiency. and with the elevation of a the fourth farmer as the guardian of liberty seemingly such as

collecting the new or became elemental parts of nation-building. planting, plowing, that's about gardening. much more than just profitable occupation. there were important political act that brought freedom and independence. so for them the improvement of agriculture was really a very much a republican endeavor. the more prosperous farmers lived in the country it the more free, more independent, and more happy society itself. at the same time nature gave the 13 states a very distinct national identity which i think barry much resonance today. after the war for independence the 13 states had to mature from being just a war alliance to becoming a truly united nation. it was the constitution that

will then together economically, legally, and politically. it was america's spectacular landscape that provided this transcendent feeling of nationhood. so you're pat antiquity and ancient ruins. the new world had to find something that was better here than in the old world. they found it in america's rugged mountains and untamed forest. this was the perfect articulation of a strong, for top, young nation that had blown off the shackles of terry. the founding fathers understood that very early on. in the early 1780's jefferson wrote a book which was called the notes on the state of virginia. he wrote about the passage through the blue ridge mountains. this was one of the most stupendous scenes in nature and that it was the most sublime of major's work. so they really understood how

america's natural scenery could be used as a reflection of a strong nation. what he wanted artists, what he called the natural wonders. jefferson asked the american artist to paint the natural bridge said that he could present this to the world, this cellular landscape which otherwise some bungling european will misrepresent. so where previous generations had regarded the message contained landscape as a hostile environment and an obstacle to settlement and farming, it now became an object of national pride. artists began to paint america's landscape. until then they had really concentrated on historical moments of the american revolution. i'm just trying to show you a couple. this is thomas cole. this is another. nature becomes the object of national pride.

the question is, what does it all mean today when we walk through the founding fathers the state's? is anything still visible? i think it is. if you go to mount vernon, for example, and walked along the serpentine wall and you see this shrubbery entirely planted with native species. john adams garden in quincy can be in the same sense. the summer of 1796 adams was redesigning his garden. he was concerned with the appearance of his garden at that time because he was kind of approaching and new state in his life. there were rumors that washington was considering to retire after his second term. adams was considering the office of president himself. this is a picture of his farm.

his farm was rather modest compared to washington or jefferson's politician. they had several thousand acres. adams only had a run 500 acres. but nonetheless he was very much inspired by what he had seen on his garden tour in england, and he wanted to recreate an ornamental farm bringing together the kind of useful and the beautiful. the first thing he did is he made a ha ha, a ditch which has -- provide the same security as a fence or wall. it keeps of cattle, but it allows sweeping views across the surrounding countryside, including fields but also mountains. but adams is doing is opening what he calls a prospect so that he could see the meadows and the western mountains. so he is really celebrating

america. there were also flowers which were filled with plants that abigail adams to where his wife, compared to humble citizens in contrast to the stately crown which she said was banned from the garden is the bears to market : name. by the end of december 1796 adams finally names as garden after many years. i will read you why he explains he called the peace field. this is what he says. commemoration of the peace which i assisted in making in 1783 of the 13 years' peace in the tell the which i have come to read it to preserve and of the cost and peace and tranquility which i have enjoyed. even in the same they're is a political meeting. let's have a look.

when jefferson retired from his presidency in 89 he created a garden that was very much a reflection of what he believed america was , strong, beautiful, independent, agrarian, and sublime. monticello is a living tapestried of the scenes that had occupied him for so long. so they have the majestic views across the rolling landscape which is his celebration of the american landscape. the plants that lewis and clark had brought from their exposition which were a reminder of the promises that lay in the west. there were fields near the pleasure grounds which jefferson manse his belief in america. the public. then there was a vegetable salads. 1,000 feet long. this is the experimental part, the scientific lab at

monticello. jefferson very much police that the introduction of a new and useful species was an important patriotic task. he says the greatest service which can be rendered in the cash tree is to add peggy's will plan to its culture. it is so important to him that when he is hedging his services he writes another list. all this list includes the declaration of independence. he also includes his introduction of the olive tree to this country. he thinks this is as important as his political act. during the last years in the white house he creates this autumn of the farm in monticello. it is a very -- and i'm going to show you a slightly complicated plan of monticello. what you can see here, these are the roads that go up to the

mountaintop. but he is doing is he is sending his visitors on this rather complicated network of roads of the mountain top. now, imagine you have just spent three days riding through the virginia untamed forest to monticello. you really want to see a straight traveler going up to the house. no. easy on this detour of the mountain which starts at the untamed forest at the bottom. about halfway up he introduces the first arab cultural element. then he leaves you through a very carefully planned 18-acre growth passed the visible terrorist to lawn and then the flower bed. it is a journey from the rugged to the refined. very much a journey from the wilderness to civilization. but we have to bear in mind is

that he is designing this while america is stuck between of war and an order to pressure britain and france. jefferson is introducing the embargo act and 897 which bans all foreign trade. so suddenly self-sufficiency and home protection becomes incredibly important. it is almost like if you wanted to imprint this, he does this almost like a necklace of fields that are just below the pleasure ground. let's have a look at james madison. like jefferson and madison created a garden for his retirement. he had seen what happens to washington and jefferson when they retire. he had seen the presidents of homes were really becoming a very important path of the tercentenary in virginia.

so he knew he would have lots of strangers turning up. he is and that everything he did was very carefully planned. so visitors would arrive at the front of the house which you can see here. then they stepped into the house working toward the parlor and would be led to the back porch go. when there were standing on the back portico there was see the centerpiece of the ornamental landscape which was of flat, huge, beautiful lawn which was literally embraced by the american forest. so where washington had gone into the forest to take a native species out and plant them in the shrubbery, madison is going a step further : the force come very, very close to his house and release celebrating the american forest the most extraordinary of all , they did a rather bad job on the

trees. ignore those. but have a look at the building on the right-hand side. what you would see right in the middle of this ornamental landscape would be a model slave village. these buildings, these six buildings are very unlike the usual slave cabins with mud floors which medicine to by the way, and elsewhere on his plantation. these were buildings which were very sturdily built. there was glass and the windows. slaves eight here off decorative plates. we know from visitors accounts that it were very much part of the entertainment of guests to wander over to the slave village and have a look around. so were other plantation owners had separated their slave quarters from the main garden by replacing them elsewhere or by

fences or walls, madison places that right there in the middle of his ornamental landscape, a spotless well-designed village into his garden. why did he do that? i think hit because like washington and jefferson he wants to reconcile the idea of slavery with his idea of equality and liberty. he also knows that he has -- their will be lots and lots of foreigners scrutinizing his slave quarters as well as visitors from the north. but he has seen that happen to washington and jefferson. so by placing the small village in the midst of his garden he presents himself as a slave owner whose lives are happy and careful, never mind the other ones, the other slave cabins elsewhere on the plantation. i would like to end with something which is very different but was the greatest surprise when i was writing this

book which is that even the environmental movement can be traced back to the birth of the nation and to the founding fathers. in 1818 madison said to the widely circulated speech that the protection of the environment was essential for the survival of america. he did not suggest to live in misty eyed harmony with nature. he says that if man wanted to live off major in the long-term something had to change. he said that nature was an ecological system. he condemned the virginians for their extrication of soil and destruction of the forest. he feared that nature's balance might be enhanced. he said something which i think is really extraordinary. he said that man had to return to nature what man took from nature. these are radical ecological views because this is a time

when most people still believe that god has created animals and plants entirely for the use of mankind. at that time the man -- mattison says that humankind cannot expect that nature can be made subservient to the use of man. man has to find a place in nature without destroying it, birds which i think remains as important today as there were when he spoke them. thank you. [applause] [applause] very happy to take questions if you dare. the first question is always the most difficult one. >> your first book. totally different.

>> well, put it this way. it gave me the idea. but researchers felt that i had to basically plow through the letter of the founding fathers. i think what happens is that we historians tend to -- i mean, history is a very subjective thing just by choosing what you choose to tell. and i think that something has changed. if you looked at the biographies of the founding father from the 1940's and 50's's you would have not really written about adams standing in a pile of manure. there were these to me guns of the revolution. so when you look you don't really see a lot of them. i have to basically go back to their letter to kind of pull up the bits which other historians have ignored.

i think what helped me was the research and had done on american trees and plants. that really, really helped me. and the idea very much help me in that chapter about the garden tour of jefferson and adams garden tour because of the john paul from connection. any other questions? >> you talk about the delegates. i don't know how much detail you got. now all the way out here, did they have any description of their trip? >> than that of:00 in the morning at the indian queen. two carriages. they came out here across the very. they met here at 6:00.

they had not told william that there were arriving. a wonderful description. he is literally standing barefoot almost. his arms, he is digging in his garden. suddenly two carriages rolled up the delegates just as nicely. description that he is a little bit taken aback at the beginning and then very quickly collected himself and shows them around for three hours. okay. over there. [inaudible question] >> my next book has nothing to do with gardens believe it not. my next book is about the planet venus. when the planet venus moves between earth and sun for six hours you can see a black dot crossing the pace of the sun.

in the 18th century that was the only way to measure the distance between earth and son which held the key for the solar system. but it only works, you could only measure it in the northern and southern hemisphere working together looking at the same time, collecting data, and inoculated. it is the first scientific global endeavor. 200 astronomers work together in the 18th century at a time of this 70th war, france, england, the american colonies, sweden, russia, italy, all working together. is this race across the world. for me it was a very logical connection because in their garden and describe the story from the perspective of the continent's.

the endeavor. and in the second shoran of benjamin franklin is involved. so it is kind of like, this is an interesting subject. kind of, you know, the earthly pleasures and other heavenly pleasures. yes. >> i was particularly interested in york descriptions of the establishment of the district of columbia. could you talk about that a bit? was surprised there was so much disagreement among the founding fathers as to what it should be. particularly jefferson felt this to be an organic and not important place. >> i basically -- while god. i basically didn't talk brought that because it is a whole story in itself. i am going to take premeds to answer this question. so if you think that the first four presidents of the united states are all passionate gardeners you would just assume

that you are going to find the most amazing stuff above the white house garden. well, i didn't find anything. you then think about, my god. my whole theory is not working. i came up with a theory which i think it's in quite neatly. basically what happens is when they decide that there is going to be in new capital and the district of columbia, especially washington and jefferson with two very different ideas of what this capital should look like. both of them agree that the capitol should be a reflection of the power of the federal government, only that washington believed that the batter a government should have a lot of power. there should be as strong pro-government. jefferson believed that the pro-government should be as invisible as possible. washington wanted to have this grand, amazing, big capital, the kind of sweeping avenues.

four or five times bigger than boston and new york and philadelphia. jefferson believes it should be a very small town which organically grows from the middle. then when it comes to the white house the design that washington comes up with is very grand and has a 60-acre president apart. now, washington dies. the first president to actually move into the white house was john adams, but he only lives there for four months. jefferson is really the first to move in there as a gardener who could do something. he doesn't do anything. >> guarantee for him when he arius he has been building. that is exactly what he wants to convey. he spent his whole presidency really trying to demystify all of this of the president. you know, this is a man who always dressed beautifully and french couture and silk.

he dresses down so much that visitors say the lenin is soiled, the cut is a pair. his hair is disheveled. he is not seeing any public audiences. so everything but he does is demystifying. he doesn't do anything in the garden because he thinks that this garden should not be like grisaille. the only thing he does in the white house garden is to put a wall around it to make it only 5 acres. so his legacy in the white house garden is to make it small because that is as much reflection of power there should be. a very long answer for a short question. sorry. any more questions? okay. thank you.

[applause] [applause] >> to find out more, visit the authors website. >> savannah, georgia has a rich military history. this month in partnership with our local cable affiliates, comcast, we'll explore savannah's history and literary culture. next hero talks about some modern military history. his book is seal team six. >> seal team six is a c-span2 counter terrorist unit. what do i mean by tier one? you have the other seal teams. seal team six as additional funding, logistical support, and training that makes them a tier one unit which means they can be called out at a moment's notice and go anywhere in the world into account a terrorist on.

>> what exactly sets them apart from the other teams? is it just where they are sent for training? >> well, there is some enhanced training are you familiar with the term cqb? close quarters battle. room to room fighting, like in this house. aboard a cruise ship. inside the building. that is taking it toolholder level in s.e.a.l. team six versus the other s.e.a.l. team six. >> what exactly does their training intel? first day of training. >> well, you are already dealing with an elite caliber of warrior. all of the s.e.a.l. have already gotten land warfare training, winter warfare, diving, skydiving. you already have amelie warrior. the training that would go into fine-tuning these guys for a specific mission would be that cqb, a lot more skydiving.

s.e.a.l. team six has a lot more skydiving so that they learn how to stag canapes when coming into land. they take everything to a whole level as far as getting the team on target. >> can you tell us about your time? what was your experience like? >> my experience overall was dead. my career was during the whole black hawk down. everything was great have a lot of good ops has s.e.a.l. team six to. helping other people and working with the cia. everybody remembers the one battle which was october 3rd 1930. >> can you tell us, for those who don't know, but that battle. >> yap. basically we had been in somalia for two with the months. we had been working trying to find more, the guaranteed.

on that particular day we had some intelligence. that he was going to be at a certain hotel. as it turned out it was an ambush. during that combat 18 americans were killed. seventy-two were injured. it was a really bad day. the worst thing about the battle is we have broken the back of the al qaeda plan. we turned tail and left. that give them an eight year incubation time before september 11th. >> into go back a little bet, after you completed your training you went through sniper school. what is that like? >> when i went to ed s.e.a.l. team six to come before

i went said cypress cool, i did not go to cyprus cool until i went to six. i found out when needed more snipers. volunteered to get a separate school. the sniper school i went to is in quantico, virginia. marine corps still snipers cool. the most storied, you know, a prestigious. and i could have went to anyone i wanted to. i chose that one because i felt it was the best of the time. >> what exactly is separate school like? >> you know what it's like in the summertime. imagine laying in the middle of a field in the summertime with heavy clothes on crawling through takes, red ants, misdeed as demand everything else and doing that for like three or four hours a day without getting scene, still making your shot, sweating profusely. even when you're not doing shooting, you're still

observing, feels gets is, taking notes, observing the men and keeping that hot seat on moving around. that was tough. i tell everybody that sniper school wasn't as bad as hell week, but it was pretty close. >> so as someone who was already an navy s.e.a.l. decide they want to try and join team 651st of all, is there only a certain number that can be in team six? >> requirements just like there are any military unit. i'm not at liberty to tell you how many people are. how many people are accepted depends on how many people they need. how many people are rotating out. you can't stay at six and do that job forever. if you try to your pushing the age limit. timing was slowdown. he stick around and be a trainer something like that, but you have to have that fresh group of gasol to start back in the reason based on needs depends on how many people there

will screen for. there will screen for more than they need because invariably somebody will get hurt. >> now, if somebody doesn't make it the first time is this a test that someone can continue to take? >> i have never heard of that training and then being allowed to come back. at think this is a one-shot deal. i'm not saying it hasn't happened, but i've never heard of that. usually if you don't make you just go back to wherever you came from. i have never heard of anybody coming back again unless, like i said, it's a medical injury that you had no control over. maybe then go heal up and come back. if you get hurt and is not your fault, we had a guy gets slammed onto the rocks and it really hurt him to really hurt him. he stayed around 67 months. then continue his training.

>> if you can, around how long does someone stay in s.e.a.l. team six? >> this is what i've brainstorm and think. i think from six years to maybe eight years in my opinion would be the maximum of time because you can't take that tempo, that up-tempo, that day in day out grind every single day up and down the stairs carrying equipment, training professionally and having really no personal life to speak of, we are talking about a lifestyle. you have to imagine doing your job or living. and being caught up in the time of night. the shelf life. >> that would be my next question. people who are involved in such a covert group, what impact does that have other families? as in the can discuss it. >> that stuff. when i went to test s.e.a.l.

team six to simply tell me the divorce rate is like 70 percent. so if you are looking at a unit his divorce rate is already era 70%, now you're going to a unit where you are away from your family more, doing more classified stuff that you can't talk about degrees for example, when i went to desert storm my wife was going to desert storm. when i leave to go do something from s.e.a.l. team six she never knew where i was going. she found out i was shot like everybody else when the red cross called. i think that the people who go there have it harder in their family life and personal life than the regular teams'. i think that you have kind of got to take a break from that after awhile. >> when people heard the news that it was s.e.a.l. team six, everybody wanted to know who these people work. the kind of want to stay in the

background. just the nature of the field? >> it is definitely the mission. you hear about s.e.a.l. in two ways when something goes really bad or when something goes really good. when they shot the somali pirates to and when that law and was killed. i can guarantee you with all the detail that these al qaeda tell that these guys got that there have -- there are ups that have gone on since then that none of us know about and don't need to know about. here is the sad thing. there have probably been a dozen books written on s.e.a.l. team six, minimum by different members. nobody really cared about it. so these are unsung heroes. it is okay to read the books. first of all, that's the reason i wrote this book. so people can see the amount of trade about preparation, dedication, and sacrifice. the other thing is to overcome

adversity. the hardest thing i ever did was leave s.e.a.l. team six and come back to civilian life which almost cost me my life. i was really, really in a bad place. it's okay to know about the men talk about them. just don't try to involve yourself in their personal lives. i heard there was a group of people trying to find at who their work. now we're crossing the line. at think it is okay to talk about them and america should be glad that we have people like this that are willing to go there and do that. >> you made that comment about transitioning into civilian life, how does somebody get through that intense training and make that transition? are some of them not able to make it? >> here is what i understand and what i think most people do. first of all, you're coming out with a very unique skill set. it is not like you're coming out with anything that is remarkable. so a lot of people go to swat.