he lost his fighting spirit. my wife this year. you know, i'm with him on this. we sense a note. you know, if you can take the high ground, take it. so he writes for and looks at him. they go, that is pretty tough ground to take. we're going to need help. part of johnson's division, he writes and says, can help us? i don't think we can. ..

that jeff daniels and jeff daniels alone won the civil war at gettysburg. you just look at the movie and we all know that. [laughter] >> but you're getting into july 2nd. yeah, lee never -- lee went over that morning and asked what he

could do and he said, i don't know what if we can do much and lee said you will move in the demonstration and home to convert it into an attack. lee's method of command was leave a lot to subordinates and they were on the ground in a sense and he could do that with logstreet and jackson. it sort of falters at gettysburg and that's one of the reasons. poor alexander will write that a military has to be a well oiled machine and here it clanged. a.p. hill, he's hard to find. you know -- when i was writing july 3rd, where was he? you know, and i couldn't -- i did not find a contemporary piece of paper, by contemporary i wanted to limit my research and letters to september that it was relatively fresh in people's minds and the only thing i found

a post-war account that hill stood by my battery during a cadon raid and you have hill and some were saying he was having health problems and all that. so in a sense, the machine that lee created partly came apart at gettysburg. but yet i don't want to not want emphasize, you know, that you can't take away from williams scott hancock. you can't take away george sais and you can't take away the irish brigade and to do that is to discredit history and to discredit those men. they put up a heck of a fight at gettysburg and they did beat the army of northern virginia. it's as simple as that. and we can go throw all -- the reason we deal with if's there and that is, you know, as we all pretty well know, the

confederates have won the military history of the civil war. the losers wrote a better history of the war than the winners. because i think most northerners -- we have gone on with our lives saying, we won. get over it. [laughter] >> you know, and i respect that. down here they've heard the stories. they've heard about their great grandfather's farm being burned and other things. and you got to respect that heritage that they have and that sense of family and history and to them -- there's only one war down there. you know, really when you talk to many of them -- i think northerners have moved on. i don't know how true anymore but the old adage if you want to write a civil war book, three or four civil war books will be sold south of the mason-dixon.

to be yankee is not to sell book books. [laughter] >> but anyhow. >> we're going to take one more question. that's it. first, thank you for an excellent talk. i really enjoyed it. my question is, a year or two ago, joseph gallart write a book called "lee's army" and you cite that book in your book. >> it's a wonderful book. it's more quantative book in a sense like that. he, i think, 600 letters, diaries and memoirs to get a profile of the army. where joe did not go into great depth on the campaigns. that's what i look at. mine's more the campaigns and the leadership morale. my book is not, for instance,

the battle of antietam it's in one chapter. gettysburg is two only because of the movements. chancellorville, i think, is one. i wanted -- i try to portray the sense of what it was like for combat for each of these battles, also mistakes in leadership and so forth. if you look at -- and joe's book is a wonderful book based on a lot of years of research. an excellent book and i used it the profiles in numbers that he does but his chapter on the campaigns, that was not his purpose. my purpose is primarily looking at the campaigns and the battles and, you know, in the sense of what the army was doing in that. so that's where we differ, yeah. thank you. >> thank you. [applause] >> thank you all for being with us. [applause]

>> well, we'd like to thank you all of you for being here today and that informative and insightful presentation. we hope you'll come back to visit the lehigh valley visitor museum. and mr. wert is going to sign some books. give him a big round of applause. thank you very much. [applause] >> this event was hosted by the lehigh valley association and for more information visit ichs.museum. >> every weekend booktv offers 48 hours of programming focused on nonfiction authors and books. watch it here on c-span2. next on booktv, jennifer griffin and greg myre appeared on c-span's "washington journal" to talk about their new book "this burning land" and take questions from viewers. this is about 45 minutes.

>> host: we're back with husband and wife reporting team. greg myre is the senior editor at national public radio, co-author of the new book -- the new book by a husband and wife team "this burning land" and jennifer griffin, his wife, national security correspondent at fox news channel, of course, the co-author of this book as well. greg, let me begin with you. let's start with why this -- the israeli-palestine conflict continues today? >> guest: well, it's been going on now for decades. we're talking six decades. and i think in 10 years ago in 2000 they were close to an agreement and they worked backwards and one of the things we wanted to emphasize in this book was the way they dug a deeper hole for themselves. you look at the things that have happened. hamas is in full control of gaza and wants nothing to do with

negotiations. israeli settlements have expanded from 100,000 when the peace talks began early '90s to 300,000 today. so a lot of the problems that you were looking at 10 years ago have multiplied and become even larger and that's one of the things we wanted to emphasize it's not just a continuation of the conflict but it's a deepening of the conflict in part of the way. >> host: and part of your book includes your personal stories as well. i mean, you lived there. you raised two small children there. you were there from what 1999 to 2007? >> guest: that's right. >> host: jennifer, you write israel has a thriving economy and yet they can't solve this problem why is that? >> guest: well, i think one of the reasons we wrote this book, greta, is that we felt there's a lot of talk in washington about if we can just get back to the peace process and we always hear we have a new administration, if we just go back to the peace process and get the israelis talk as they did in the oslo

period and you have arafat at the white house and you had all this hope. what we wanted to show is that in the -- in the seven years we lived there and in the past decade the psychological and physical landscape between the israelis and palestinians changed to such a degree that you can't just dust off old road maps to peace plans. you need to come at the problem with a new perspective as to how both sides really changed by this period. >> host: okay, greg, so what do politicians in washington don't -- what do they not understand about the palestinian and israeli conflict that you think they should understand given that you were on the ground there? >> guest: well, the way a number of these issues they've been dealing with have become more difficult. again, there was -- the economies were very much integrated. the israeli and palestinians would actually travel back and forth. every day when we first got there, palestinians were like commuters. they would come and work in sxirlz -- israel every day and

go home. there was interaction and economic integration to a degree. but again, the kind of segregation and divisions have become much more permanent and locked in place and these are going to be very hard to reverse as jennifer was saying you just can't go back a decade and dust off the old plan. >> host: when you arrived in israel back in 1999, what was it -- was there a specific event that sparked the decline in these talks? >> guest: well, actually the first chapter that we deal with was literally the first day of the inde-fatah. it was the spark perhaps that unleashed -- there was a lot of built up anger and frustration that the peace process had not gone as the palestinians and israelis had hoped and there was a lot of pent-up frustration and as we described in the first chapter was ariel sharon's first steps on the temple mound. it was september 28th, 2000.

and it's not that sparked -- it's not that caused it. there were many causes but what we bring to you in this chapter is the back-story of what made him go there that day and we have interviews with -- and stories and the back-story behind what motivated him to go there that day. and then basically everything that unfolded from that. so you have to understand those initial days. and greg is fond of saying, you know, it just takes a small spark in the middle east. look what happened in tunis you go back to a fruit seller who set himself on favor and then you have this wave upon wave in revolution. in libya, it's been lost in recent coverage that there was a human rights activist who had been arrested in those early days in benghazi and that's really what sparked these protests. all it takes in the middle east is a little spark. and our point is that you can't ignore the israeli-palestinian conflict and it may not be a front-burner issue but in order to understand what's going on in

the middle east you really need to understand this conflict and that's why we wrote this. >> host: do you need what the noble sanctuary, what it means to both sides? do you think that's important? >> guest: oh, absolutely. it's probably -- it's the most indivisible issue because when you have a is the spot, the holiest spots where the ancient jewish testimony approximates were built and destroyed twice in antiquity and now you have the -- one of the most important shrines in islam built on top of that. and ariel sharon walked up there. he didn't go in the mosque or the religious shrine and walking around inflamed muslim passions that day and jews prayed down on the western wall below which was the wall around the ancient temple but that is the most explosive piece of real estate in the entire middle east. >> guest: and you have to understand how layered it is and how things are built on top of each other and the proximity and how small the place is. and we try to paint that picture

in the book so that -- we take those -- the reader there. on that day when ariel sharon walked up onto the temple mound, i was there. i was pregnant -- you know, and the rocks started flying shortly thereafter. the next day was friday prayers and jews were praying underneath at the western wall and i didn't understand before i lived in israel that -- that -- just how close and how on top each other the mosque and where the jews were praying and that is -- there's a beautiful picture in there. i don't know if you can show that. it's the last picture and it's in the old city. and it shows an arab and a jewish worshipper passing each other in the old city. it's this picture. they both can't see each other. they're covered. and it's an amazing photo. and to us it symbolized -- they are in the old city walking down these narrow streets, streets there have been there since jesus walked those very same

paths. and they're walking past each other to pray and their faces are completely covered and they don't even see each other. >> host: and fast forward to today. do the palestinians still talk about their -- what they consider their holy land and this holiest spot for them? and the idea that israel might take it away? >> guest: yes. absolutely. this is where diplomacy will have to come in. and you have to be creative. back in 2000, there were notions going around that this -- the mosque and the religious compound on top which is the for 13 years now would remain in muslim hands but that the ground below it would be israeli or in jewish hands. so literally they're talking about below ground would have one sovereign and above-ground would have another sovereign so you're going to have to come up with some very, very creative solutions because this is the

one spot for an israeli leader to relinkish power and to palestinian to relink wish sovereignty or claim of sovereignty. >> host: you both did a lot of interviews with both palestinians and israelis while you lived there and got personal stories down to this conflict. i'm wondering from both of you and maybe your answers will be the same, but maybe different. is the -- is the end goal of statehood more important or is it the site? >> it depends who you're talking about. for whom, do you mean? is it most important? what we're hearing now, in fact, it's very interesting in recent days there is talk about the palestinians going to the u.n. general assembly in september and going for a vote about palestinian statehood. that's going to force israel's hand. that's going to create a

diplomatic situation. you have simone peres coming to the white house tomorrow to talk about what they're seeing as a crisis on the horizon because israel is concerned that if the palestinians simply go to a vote at the u.n. general assembly in september they overnight will have a state and certain things are discussed and negotiated, that's going to -- that's going to put this conflict -- it's going to take a turn that many, you know -- that many israelis are concerned about. that being said, president bush was the first american president to declare that two states for two peoples was the goal of u.s. policy and that the palestinians deserve a state. that was a major step forward. so we've seen so much movement actually it looks like the israelis and the palestinians are locked in a fight that's been going on forever. but, in fact, there's a lot going on and you really need to -- what we try to do with the characters -- this is a very

character-driven book. we've introduced you to characters, palestinians really on both sides of the conflict wi with the conflicts that we've all you can cross the front lines on any given day and report from both sides of the conflict on the same day. and that's what we wanted to show is through the eyes of these different characters through the israelis palestinian areas what are the issues, what drives them. what motivates them and what are going to be the difficult issues ahead. >> host: greg, you want to add to that? >> guest: yeah, quickly in the sense there are many good people on both sides and we profile many of them in the book who generally want peace however that's why not to give um but there's elements on both sides who have a invested interest to keep conflict on both sides and i would point to hamas who doesn't want to negotiate and it plays into their hands and their cause stronger and that israel

shouldn't be destroyed or israel shouldn't be there. there's a group of settlers say time is on their side and there will be more settlers and they will become fixtures as part of connected to sxirlz, therefore, they have a greater chance of expanding and remaining in place. >> host: jennifer, i want to move on what we're seeing in the mideast in northern africa and the uprisings there. what impact have those situations in libya, in tunisia have they had on the palestinian-israeli situation, particularly on palestinians? >> guest: well, i think the impact -- the biggest impact was the change in egypt and we're still in a very unknown period. but the change -- the potential change of the government -- or the change of the government there and the potential change of the relationship between egypt and israel and one thing you need to understand, to understand how nervous israelis are right now about what's going on around them because this is really -- this is a cataclysmic change we're seeing. for three to four decades we've

had exactly the same families in power in all of these arab states. one interesting point is that for the first time in the history of the middle east, in the modern history, you're not hearing israel blamed for all these problems for these arab capitals. the first time the arab street are not say that all their problems is because of the israeli-palestinian conflict is not solved. it is interesting and it's an interesting development. the situation in egypt is important for israel because there is that border between gaza and egypt and if the egyptian -- the new egyptian government decides not to monitor that border where there are tunnels and a large amount of heavy weaponry can flood into gaza that will destabilize things in a very serious way. i would say israelis are holding their breaths to the changing going on. they don't know if there will be a assad regime in syria, you know, in the months to come, that would be a huge change in

the dynamic with regards to hezbollah. without syria, hezbollah can't get weapons and money from iran. so all eyes now on these other conflicts and really it's unclear how and when the dust will settle. >> host: here's the "new york times" heading for qatar a tiny state with big goals. what role are they playing and what role do they have in the mideast. >> guest: the qatar -- >> host: yeah. >> guest: qatar has punched well above its weight. it's been extraordinary what they've done. they have created al-jazeera which has played a fundamental role in spreading information and debate for well over a decade now in the arab world. they've had a u.s. military presence. they've clearly decided that for many arab countries it would be a very difficult thing to have a u.s. military presence but they've made that decision.

but they've really contributed, an opening, i think, of discussion and dialog in the arab world. so it's a very, very important state. and you might note that they've also avoided being involved really in the unrest that you've seen elsewhere. >> host: we're talking with jennifer griffin and greg myre. they are co-authors of this new book, "this burning land." we're talking about the book and also the unrest in the mideast in northern africa. we'll go to roseburg, oregon, mike is a democrat. go ahead, what's your first question or comment. i guess we'll to have wait to see who comes in. we lost mike. oh, there he is. all right. go ahead. >> caller: i didn't go anywhere. let me kill the volume. hold on. >> host:. caller: -- >> caller: you folks are extremely knowledge. what i would like to know -- what i've trying to find out

where is sharahi. the palestinians need another sharahi. she was an excellent representative and where is she? we she'd her. >> guest: she is still very prominent in palestinian society. but much less so on the international stage. i mean, this was a woman who is a leadingperson for the palestinians particularly in the 1990s. very articulate, very persuasive and she was in a couple of palestinian cabinets. had some friction with some of the other palestinian political leaders and has sort of not a front line political figure right now. but is involved in sort of developing education programs. she's got sort of a nonprofit that she runs. so she's still very active, very prominent in palestinian society but you're not hearing her as sort of the spokesperson and she

was a very powerful and very persuasive spokesperson. >> guest: she's working very actively in ramallah. i think one of the reasons you don't see more of her is she felt -- she had a falling out with the arafat regime and many of his cronies who took over afterwards. she was not in a good position with them and she really felt that the inde-fatah didn't serve the violent size of the uprising didn't serve the larger cause and i think she's a woman of principle and i think she's better served working on women's issues. >> host: we have tom from tampa, florida. hopefully tom will join us in a second. jennifer, and greg you are both back in washington. let's talk about what you're doing for. >> guest: i work at fox news

issues at the pentagon. i still travel out in the middle east. i was in afghanistan a few weeks back. so that's what we're doing. and one thing we didn't have a chance to talk about is the book also talks about our personal life and, you know, working for two different news organizations in a very intense time, in the israeli-palestine areas and also raising two small children. i gave birth to two daughters while we were living in israel. and there were certain times where i would go to work with literally a slap jacket and a breast pump 'cause i was nursing at the time. our girls were born in jerusalem. in fact, one -- the second -- our second daughter amelia was born just on the eve of the iraq invasion and when we checked into the hospital, they gave us is certificate for a gas mask tent for the babies. adults would carry around gas masks because of the fear that saddam would fire chemical

weapons at israel. and that to us said so much about the psychology of the conflict and there's a line in the book where we say, it is literally no exaggeration to say on the day that they are born israelis begin preparing for war. >> host: and greg you now at npr? >> guest: i am. i help edit npr's morning edition program. >> host: and when you were in israel you were with the "new york times"? >> guest: i was with the "new york times," that's correct. >> host: tom is back on the republican line in tampa, florida. go ahead. >> caller: yes. hi. >> host: we're listening, tom. >> caller: hi jennifer and greg. how are you doing this morning. >> guest: good, good. >> guest: thank you. >> caller: i want to ask a little question there. due to the uprising there in africa, why do you think the uprising is, you know, so severe now due to america change and status of the president and

everything? give me your notation on why is the uprising there in africa, dan, when, you know, it seems to have been an uprising here in the united states? >> guest: right. i believe you're referring to the north africa countries that have sort of exploded in tunisia, libya and in egypt. and again, i have to say it's something that caught people quite by surprise, but i think what you see in places that are really frozen in time for decades where they have one autocratic leader. there's not an outlet or a venue to practice any kind of normal politics. where their views are suppressed and you can't speak freely, it can often take one little incident and things will explode and we mentioned this earlier in the episode in tunisia this fruit seller who is sort of abused by the police that touched all this off. so all of these things have been percolating just under the surface for many, many years. and as we've seen, it's happened

in half a dozen countries. >> guest: wednesday morning it's the advent of social media and the internet. a lot of these countries -- it was possible for decades for these autocratic rulers and these tyrants to essentially keep their people separated from the outside world. you could keep them from knowing what was going on. but it don't seem possible in the annual of the internet so greg mentioned a few minutes ago by the role of al-jazeera in the middle east. qatar funded this cable station -- or this satellite, excuse me, this satellite station that essentially really was the spark for this revolution a decade ago. i think a lot of americans don't understand the role that al-jazeera has played in the middle east. we often heard criticism of al-jazeera during the early parts of the iraq invasion because they were seen as being anti-american or anti-invasion but what they were really doing was really challenging all of these arab leaders in the countries where they had correspondence and that decade

of freedom of information and speech and freedom of the press, that was revolutionary. and then coming on to that, having access to twitter and facebook. it was -- it was when one fruit seller in tunisia set himself on fire, it was people in syria who then saw what was going on and said, hey, i want to be a part of this. so this is a jeanie that can't be put back in the bottle and we don't know how it's going to work out but i think it's fair to say it's the biggest change in the middle east since the end of the ottoman empire. >> host: the qatar government is also helping the libyan opposition using a french satellite to offset the government controlled radio. jonah democratic line go ahead. >> caller: hello. thanks very much for c-span. i got a couple of questions. the first is do you believe that the people in north africa in the middle east are still optimistic about how the obama administration will handle

things? i know he had a particularly great opportunity at the beginning because he has the middle name hussein, et cetera. and then the last thing kind of goes back to what you had been talking about with israel and the palestinians. the issue of water and water rights and how that plays. thanks. >> host: go ahead, greg. >> guest: i'll answer the first question. as we think back, president obama went to cairo and i believe it was june of 2009. he had only been in office six months or so. and he delivered this very big need about a more open and democratic arab world and it's not a coincidence. i think it's -- there was a lot of hope that things might change. now, i don't know that anybody thought it would come so dramatically and as hard and as fast as we've seen it. but he certainly, i think, was seen as inspirational. now, it's gotten very, very tricky because i think that president obama as other u.s. presidents have found, you've

got this often difficult choice between u.s. values and u.s. strategic interests and at times they can conflict with one another. so i think the president -- i think people in this part -- in the middle east and north africa do look to the united states but they're sort of wondering are we going to get full-fledged support to democratic movements? and does that also mean military support? or are we going to stand back a little? the obama administration is still trying to figure out its exact policies country by country and people there also have the same issues. >> guest: and i would say that in addition to president obama's speech in cairo you have to go back that secretary of state condoleezza rice gave a truly seminal speech in cairo talking about how u.s. policy in the middle east had long favored stability over democracy and she stated outright at that time that the new doctrine of the bush administration was that they would favor democracy in these countries. now, there was a period of time and a period of years where

mixed signals i would say were sent to democratic activists in these countries, arab countries and capitals. but the groundwork for what we're seeing as a series of revolutions was laid during the bush administration followed up by an initial speech by president obama and now i think what we're seeing from the white house and state department and the pentagon is that -- i don't think anyone believes that they can control what is going on in the middle east right now. they're simply trying to remain engaged in a way that the democratic movements and whatever emerges from this period of tumult, that the u.s. will be seen as a friendly player and a player that wants to help and not hinder what is going on. >> host: hopewell junction, new york, mark, an independent caller. you're next. caller: how much influence did the united states actually have in these people fighting for

their own freedom? and why do you think president obama decided to help them and go against allies -- they've been there for years and years who have been suppressing the extreme islamists? and now those leaders are out and you don't know what we're going to have? >> guest: i'll go back just a little bit. i was there for the first gulf war when the iraqis were pushed out of kuwait in 1991. america was the seen as the one country that could do something. there was literally pro-american graffiti on the walls in the embassy in kuwait, to give you a sense of how -- what esteem the americans were held in that time. in the israeli-palestine conflict for many years, the americans were seen as absolutely essential. i think you've seen certainly a waning of american influence. and the mixed signals. the u.s. supported some of these

leaders who are very unpopular. and it was always a sense of a choice between an autocratic leader like somebody like mubarak in egypt or islamic extremists. i think these uprisings have shown there's a much more complicated there's moderate secular people pushing and it's gotten very hard, i think, for the u.s. to make clear its position and for the people protesting to -- in terms of where they're looking for leadership. >> guest: but i will say that i think this administration has tried -- if this administration has decided to back hosni mubarak against the protesters, mubarak may still be in power. this administration did decide to side with the opposition in places like egypt and you have to take each country on a case-by-case basis. i think lingering in the state department and white house's minds as they made this decision whether to intervene or not was the lack of intervention that occurred when the iranian people tried to rise up a few years back. and a feeling of guilt that there wasn't more to help those

protesters and they were pretty well squashed by the iranian regime. so i think that if you look at libya and what it was that motivated the white house to get involved there, i think you really have to look at european interests. it was really the french and british who wanted us as a ally as nato to go in and do something against gadhafi. there were people at the pentagon who were advising against this. i was talking to them. and so each country has been a case-by-case basis but i think what the administration has realized is that you really -- this is a jeanie you can't put back in the bottle and so they are simply trying to shepherd this process as best they can even though it will likely be a messy process as we've seen. >> host: we're talking with long time war reporters, greg myre,

jennifer griffin. jennifer i understand you were just back from afghanistan. is that right? >> guest: yes, i was travel actually with afghanistan with defense secretary robert gates and it was at the time when they were deciding what to do with libya and we were hearing a lot -- behind the scenes a lot of the cons against getting involved. i mean, secretary gates has a long history and a relationship with libya because he was deputy director of the cia in the 80s when president ronald reagan tried to -- stride to strike against gadhafi. gadhafi survived in the '80s and secretary gates was to caution against regime change about how difficult it was and you've heard in miss speech one of the firm lands he drew in the sound is no ground troops in african or middle east country. he gave a famous speech in west point talking about how that would be foolhardy and he also cautioned the other day on capitol hill that regime change often takes 10 years as we've

seen in iraq. and that is a costly and very difficult process. >> >> host: we'll go to andrew in hope sound, florida. >> caller: thank you. i want to make a quick comment about educational classes in university in the states. and how with the internet and the news media, how is it possible to get more current events like yourselves, you lived in the region for seven years, in 2000 to 2007? and, you know, when you came back to the states and went to friends and family and tried to describe the situations, was it the older generations or the younger generations that couldn't relate? would it be easier to bring your book into a classroom and maybe have professors and students teach the younger generations about more up to state events

going on in the region? >> guest: that's a great question. i actually think that this book, "this burning land" which gives you an updated last-decades look ultimately israeli-palestinian conflict. i think it would be great in classrooms because i do think -- [laughter] >> guest: every classroom. >> guest: every classroom in america should have this book, but, no, in all seriousness i think there are many people who have followed this conflict for a long time and it answers a lot of key questions. but i also -- my experience because i came back and started working for the pentagon and spoke to a lot of military families and a lot of military personnel, i'm quite amazed at how much americans really know about the middle east and know about the world that we live in now as a result of our military involvement in countries like iraq and afghanistan. i'm amazed at how smart -- we've had now 1.5 million people serve in iraq and afghanistan in the

last decade and they have come back with a very sophisticated, almost lawrence of arabia understanding of the complicated face of the area and i'm confident about the level of disappointed about the level of debate. >> guest: i'll make one little counterpoint there. there are fewer american journalists based in the middle east today than there were on 9/11, a decade ago. and that's got to do with the economics of newspapers and television networks. but still a pretty startling fact given the dramatic u.s. involvement over the past decade. >> host: with you speak of the costs of having correspondents for the newspaper specifically when you were in the "new york times" the cost of having you in israel and palestine? >> guest: right. we've got an office there. you need some people to help support you there. you need translators. we needed an armored car. >> host: security? >> guest: not really, no.

we had an armored car, flap jackets. >> host: in iraq and afghanistan people -- bureaus would have to have, you know, probably thousands of dollars a day security personnel who drive around with them. >> guest: right. relative -- it was a little easier with the palestine and israel. they were not targeting journalists. they did not like our stories. they were not targeting in iraq and afghanistansts have been targeted and have had to have heavy security there to operate there. >> caller: hi, how are you? >> guest: good. >> caller: i was wondering if you guys could talk about whether or not in your book -- i missed a large part of your earlier conversation. i read j post and herats and those are the two things i look at. i'm surprised how diverse the

discussion is inside the middle east and particularly in israel regarding the different views held even by israelis and they seem to have a broader and more diverse discussion than we often hear here. and i was wondering if you got into, in your book the sort of both sides of the discussion that's even happening in israel that's really reflected in the israeli press there? >> guest: yeah, yeah. we absolutely do and this is -- the point you made is literally verbatim of what we said many times. the paper you mentioned a very liberal israeli newspaper and a very good one. j post is the website for the jerusalem post on the conservative side in israel. but they have -- both of them very, very lively, good well-informed discussions,

articles, opinion pieces, great sources of information. and it did strike at the kind of fare that is part of the animated daily discussion in israel is often lacking here in the u.s. and it becomes down to a litmus test, are you with us are you against us kind of discussion. so, yes, you are -- you are looking at absolutely the right sources and getting a range of opinions. and, yes, we sort of wish we'd seen those kinds of debates here in the u.s. >> guest: but what's important about this book that the characters and the people we introduce you are in israeli and palestinian society who are not going with the flow. you have a chapter about a man who is an israeli who basically goes around the west bank monitoring the development of settlements and the expansion of settlements, and he is a former religious jew who decided that this was his calling and so he's -- he's not the norm in israel but he is a very

important voice. you have on the palestinian side -- we have a chapter about another man who was a key gun man in arafat's sort of units, military units, paramilitary units during the inde-fatah. and we talked to him and we document interviews that we had with him and the turning point where he thought the inde-fatah had failed. the palestinian uprising had failed and what arafat had done to cause that failure so these internal debates are absolutely documented in the characters that we introduce you to is not book "this burning land." >> host: today in the "wall street journal" libya quietly frozen weapon shipments >> guest: right, what we've seen in lebanon is that hezbollah is in control of the government

there. >> guest: through a democratic process. >> guest: they have had elections. the prime minister is aligned with hezbollah there. so i was surprised that this headline is coming out now as opposed to a couple months ago when hezbollah effectively put -- got in control of the government so the u.s. had been very supportive of a prowestern government there, which is now changed and now they don't want to send arms to lebanon. they're concerned where it got go and it could go to hezbollah to beef up their forces and hezbollah is still very hostile to israel. we witnessed two wars one in 1986 and another one in 2006 where israel and hezbollah were fighting across that border. and there's certainly concern that another war could happen again. >> host: but let's talk about why they were arming the lebanese government. back in 2006, and we have a chapter in the book about the war between israel and hezbollah

that was sparked by hezbollah kidnapping two israeli soldiers up on the border and we spent 34 days up on the border documenting them flying over and the outcoming artillery shells. and the reason that washington was sending arms to the lebanese government is to create a counter-balance to hezbollah which was getting their arms from syria and from iran. and so we wanted to beef up the strength of the lebanese government but now that hezbollah is the lebanese government, it would be foolhardy to be sending weapons and what you're saying they are catching up to the lebanese on the ground. >> the associated press is reporting on a association in jordan. man was arrested as he tried to enter the jordan's largest opposition group. what's happening in jordan. how does that factor into the whole situation in the mideast? >> well, jordan is a -- just like all the countries right now

surrounding israel is a tinter box and we've seen in the capital, normally you have the king of jordan, you have a monarchy. greg is found of pointing out that of the countries in the middle east right now that are facing protests, the monarchy seemed to be doing better than the other families that have just held on to power in a tyrannical way. so the king of jordan has been able to kind of hold things together and there have been protests but they have been relatively mild. the problem with jordan there is a town in jordan it was very radical. in iraq you'll remember the character zarqawi who was part of the al-qaeda in iraq, one of the leaders we eventually -- the u.s. military eventually killed him but zarka is a town outside

of amman that is a major recruiting capital for al-qaeda. amman may look very sleepy and jordan may look very sleepy under the king but there's a lot going on and so the fact you have a suicide bomber going into the opposition offices, there are tensions between the protesters, the radical islamists and then those who are trying to hold onto power such as the king. >> and the a.p. is also reporting the italian foreign minister italy has recognized the opposition libyan national transition council as the only legitimate voice in libya. let's go back to phone calls, san juan, puerto rico, peter. >> caller: those who has played hardball -- [inaudible] >> caller: that would even create more inhostility and it could go on and on forever.

they said we need to quiet our men. my earlier point and the world not just the u.s. and not just the european union should not be concerned. 150,000 mercenaries, mostly -- [inaudible] >> caller: in chad and somali he will release them to europe as soon as he's done with them. he's paying $300 for each person they kill. this is documented in the european union. >> let's take the last point greg. >> we've heard a lot about these mercenaries to begin with. i'm not sure it's not clear to me how extensive their role is and how effective they are as -- i'll let my wife answer that. >> i'll have to jump in there. in terms of the mercenaries,

they are the ones who are encircling gadhafi. they are protecting him and they are the reason that he is still holding on to the capital in tripoli. i haven't heard reports about him and i don't think we know what will happen after the foggy ends or if the fighting ends in libya and if they will be unleashed on europe but i can tell about a very interesting town in eastern libya that has well a-well documented radical town that should be watched very carefully. it's a town called darna and back when we were covering the surge in iraq and the al-qaeda in iraq and the suicide bombers that was in iraq there was a very intelligence find at the time where they found all the paperwork of all the bombers who were detonating themselves in iraq and they found that 19% of them -- they kept very good logs and details and home phone numbers and addresses of these suicide bombers. 19% of them came from one village, one town in libya.

and they didn't know why. the u.s. military didn't know why. and my colleague kevin perano of "newsweek" went to darna two years ago, three years ago in 2008 and he documented a very anti americ anti-american atmosphere and he showed how al-qaeda was recruiting in this libyan town and there are a lot of libyan recruits in afghanistan fighting against american forces in afghanistan. so these are things that have to be watched because a chaotic libya -- if libya turns into a somali where it's basically a failed regime, that is a very dangerous situation in the current war against al-qaeda. >> before let you go, jennifer, just before you got back on afghanistan i want you to comment on this headlines. violence continues in afghanistan over koran burning in florida. >> this is an incredible incendiary situation. you heard david petraeus make a public statement for calm

yesterday because of this pastor in florida who has taken upon himself to burn korans. and it is an incendiary thing to do. and it has led to the deaths of -- in the u.n. compound. there were seven u.n. personnel, civilians who were killed by a raging mob two days ago. this is a very serious situation. and it is hard to understand how this pastor in florida can justify burning korans when we have more than 100,000 troops in afghanistan in harm's way. >> the book is this burning lan lesson of front lines of the transformed israeli, palestinian conflict. it includes many interviews from both sides, from palestinians and israelis, history, as well as their personal stories. jennifer griffin, greg myre, thank you very much for spending some time with our viewers. we appreciate it. >> thank you, greta. >> thank you, greta. >> that was jennifer griffin and greg myre, authors of this burning land who appeared on c-span's "washington journal."

for more information, visit booktv.org. >> next a tour of bob mcalister's private book collection in savannahorn george. booktv visited savannah with assistance from our local partner comcast to introduce you to the area's rich literary roots. >> this is the beginning of my library. i have, i think, one of the larger private libraries in the downtown area of savannah. i have roughly 10,000 volumes and mine is not a collectors library and mine is not a rare book library. but mine's a readers library. i have read most of the books in the collection. and those that i haven't read, i intend to read 'cause i don't accumulate books that i don't intend to read. i tend to pick up almost

anything that relates -- is about savannah or people who have been in savannah or hears a book on ted turner, for example. i have judge lawrence's book the storm over savannah. i have rabbi ruben's third to none, the history of the israel synagogue. i have the hurricane season by rosemary danielle who wrote fatal flowers and sleeping with soldiers and a number of other racy books about savannah. most of my books are nonfiction but i'll occasionally get things like rosemary danielle or i also have here mary kay andrew who did the savannah blues novel.

i acquire what's available and what's interesting to me. and at any given time i generally have two or three books going and they are likely on very different books. i was reading the biography of aaron burr at the same time i was reading bill bryce's a short history. so i'm reading on different -- on different things at the same time. and it's whatever interests me. i'm a casual or catholic reader and i just read what i enjoy. here i have a lot of little trinkets and i have them roughly grouped by president. this is the kennedy shelf. and then this is the johnson shelf and then this is the nixon shelf and this is the reagan shelf. and i try to organize them by that.

i'm beginning to -- i'm beginning to have more books per president than i have for space i'm going to have investigate a little different way to do it. >> how long does it get you a collection? >> oh, i've been working on it for about 40 years. >> where have you been getting your books from? >> i buy virtually all of my books secondhand. part of it, i think, is probably my -- the economy that comes from my scots irish heritage or whatever. but i enjoy hunting for my books at garage sales and thrift stores and things like that and then i order some over the internet. and i buy a number from local stores as well. but i virtually never buy a new book. all my books are preowned. in this little section of shelves i have my collection of

the georgia historical quarterly. and then i have a little section on american and english silver. i have my studs terkel whom i'm a great fan of. and this book here is books about shakespeare of one short or another. this is an area where i made use of my entrance hall. and i put as many bookshelves in as mrs. mcalister will allow me to put in. but i have in these two shelves, these are my civil war collection. like, i think, southerners are different than other americans in that -- that we're really more concerned with our history. and the question keeps coming up, you know, why don't you folks get over this civil war. well, i think we're over the civil war but what we aren't over is american heritage.

and we have so much more history available to us about the civil war period than we do, for example, the revolutionary war period. here's one that shows the savannah connection. this fellow sneaden was a map maker and was captured as a p.o.w. and then was transferred over various parts of the south. and frequently he was at liberty and was able to make drawings and all. here's a drawing he made of the confederate p.o.w. camp in savannah. he was here in september of 1864. if he had been here in december,

he could have greeted general sherman when he came to town, but this is apparently in forsyth park because we have here the four forts that still stand there. some of the buildings over here are a little harder to identify, but this is the sort of thing i'm interested in. something that relates to savannah -- savannah's history and then carries me on to some other things. one of my real challenges is keeping up with which books i have and which books i want. i get mixed with the ones i have and the ones i want. i have an computer inventory and i use an excel spreadsheet. i assign them a number and i pencil the number in the front on the inside front cover. and this is book 1,676.

my numbers go up to 10,000. that's how i -- that's how i know i've got that many volumes. and then when one comes out of the collection, i erase it from the inventory and reassign the number. >> do you have any particular favorites in your collection? >> oh, my favorite is whatever i'm reading currently. and i just finished up the biography of aaron burr that i mentioned earlier called "aaron burr, american rascal." but it's just whatever i'm reading at the time. i moved on. i started last night bill bryce's a short history of almost everything. i'm well into that one now. so that's my favorite of the moment, but next week there'll be a new favorite. >> next on booktv,