they came up with that. notice the block title is a little off the page symbolizing how out of reach social systems has become a 57 professor 39 is author of "out of reach" place, poverty, and the new american welfare state" joins us at the university of chicago >> university of chicago professor james sparrow what did world war ii do to the size of the federal government? >> increased by more than tenfold. the economic mobilization required a increase within the economy and the armed

force since grew drastically as well serving over the course of the war and roughly half of the economy was absorbed by the mobilization of president expansion. >> host: how did it compare to the 1930's during the fdr first-term? >> with 30 is was a period of dramatic growth but the government of the thirties even at its peak was swamped by the workers stay coming out second. years later before the korean war had been done that government was still dramatically larger than it had been at its height of the 1930's so that created an immensely larger government and more intrusive. >> give us an example how the budget of the 19431945? >> what federal spending increase by a factor of 10

who just under 9 billion to almost 100. so that is but increase of expenditures and was paid for buy a combination of income-tax is and the debt and as a result of the radical new fiscal requirement with those income taxes to pass those says the largest source of revenue. >> host: is that the first time in history that happened? >> it has happened that way. >> i believe it has. i have not checked the last few years was certainly in the 20th century. >> host: did the size of the federal government decrease dramatically after 1945? >> it decrease but not to

the size of the thirties. after every war you have a one government spending goes down but it never seems to go down back to the status quo antebellum and the effects of world war ii it is substantial in large part because the cold war came along but if you look from the start of a career in war, you see that by all measures they were much more elevated than they had been even at the peak of the new deal. >> host: the size of the military went down but what stuck around? >> remaining in operation until late 1946 and many of the emergency programs that were eliminated was as

quickly as possible but the postwar military then the fiscal state that remained extraordinarily robust so you never have less than 60% of the labor force pay income taxes after the second world war. the biggest change is fiscal and military and also the precedent for mobilization drawn upon the korean war. >> host: profs barrel were economic promises made to help sell the war to the american public? >> economic promises? >> is adjusted the american standard of living would be extended to all americans some of these four free

sputum -- freedom of speech and freedom of the year but once it is a promise of the american standard of living that he was careful to emphasize over and over but mostly during the war something the soldiers deserve to come home to but it was also as a larger goal and that is more complicated >> host: why do say that? >> the affluent society came about did not slow it was dismantled by 1943. but much of what survived was transformed by war. arbitration became the heart

of labor relations which was not the case from the late 1930's. but that affluence and global power the hybrid of what survived the new deal from the second world war and that agencies that were erected to carry on the cold war. >> host: you teach at the university of chicago? >> those civil war modern u.s. history emphasis on politics but broadly construed to include cultural and social aspects as well as high diplomacy. >> host: in the history department? >> guest: i am. >> host: what is your new book about? >> guest: apolo's the story in this book is part of a trilogy in fact, of the legitimate of big government

the reconfiguration and then focusing on the new leviathan then the collapse from the '60s and '70s of that is on the second period ran the united states exerted unprecedented sovereignty through the reconstruction of germany and japan to the reconstruction of the european economy and then the occupation of south to reinvent then they find themselves for the first time on such the extraordinary scale. and then national political life it was not an easy sell especially coming so soon from the 30's but but then found itself abroad to rule others abroad but yet to it

is thought to do so often by attacking who are challenging or otherwise dismantling colonial structures getting in the way of american interest with the events unfold paying at the moment but it looks at the changing role in the world. >> host: 60 million americans were in uniform during world war ii what kind of a political power do they come home with a 1945? did they wield the power? >> they came home with an extraordinary presence remember the veterans of the first world war were greatly embittered with the '30's of the depression with utterance it doing on street corners than being routed from the capital and the bonus riots and consequently most soldiers coming home

anticipate a depression and a fear they would be stuck in a similar place but others veterans lobbies had formed and gained considerable leverage within the corridors of the capital starting in the mid 1930's and cresting during the 40's during the war as a serviceman readjustment act said g.i. bill demonstrated how the leverage had increased. the veterans are not unanimous and cayman all different political stripes and had different interest, but the most powerful american legion, vfw and others and of course, playing and essential role in political life and i should add with great popular support there was nothing that most wanted to do more than to support the boy's coming home. two s