>> i'm sorry. my time is going to go, and i want to get to specific things. .. it's my understanding and that

you, ms. warren would like to make a load mod representation to the attorneys general. we would like to use it. feature presentation give advice in the supplement? >> thursday the e-mail -- >> to jupiter greisinger prefers on that? >> i ask unanimous consent that donovan had two more in the. please go and finish your answer. i wanted to be time necessary to get a full answer and the additional follow-up question. >> the first point is i think this e-mail says i was listening to make a long presentation and i simply wanted to say if you look at the earlier e-mails have assessed by the attorney general

of illinois to make this presentation. it was their idea. the second question is did i talk to the attorney general give them advice? yes, i certainly did. >> you give advice on your preferred settlement. >> sir, i said things i thought were right. >> haven't you been saying this you haven't been participating in these things? has in your quote than that you've been giving advice to secretary of treasury and other federal agencies, that you've been avoiding answering this question. the question want to know is, are you out there trying to negotiate the settlement quite >> congressman, on april 4th, we provide advice to federal and state officials regard any potential servicing settlement. in doing so, we have been an active participant iteration

state discussions sharing analysis and recommendations in support of a resolution that would hold accountable any servicers who violate the law. it also says in this letter that consumer agency is not connecting settlement negotiations with mortgage security. >> habitat to any private servicers? private industry about the settlement? >> we have not engaged in negotiations with any private -- if any of those alleged to have violated the law. >> let me ask you this. if we could put a document for her. here's an e-mail from the chief executive officer of wells fargo to you on february 25, 2011, with the subject mortgage. and he wrote to you, what should be interested in discussing with the press is reporting on speculated terms and conditions to settle for mortgage servicing issues? replayed later come i apologize for not getting back earlier and

gave him your cell phone number to call over the weekend. what did you and the ceo of wells fargo discussed that worker services? >> i started the conversation by saying that i am not able to negotiator discussed a settlement negotiations with you in any way, shape or form. >> was at the end of the conversation? >> i am sorry, but i'm not able to do that. >> is the end of the conversation? >> yes, sir, it was. >> duplicate the document five, this is mass question. document five in an e-mail to mr. dante, associate director of cfpb to the executive vice president for p.j. morgan chase, monday agenda. and he wrote, given persistent rumors and headlines, i do not point this meeting to be construed as related to potential settlement discussions

and regulatory enforcement actions. in the meeting has to be off the record. why was mr. dante so worried about the meeting be construed as relating to any potential settlement? >> he wanted to make clear as we have with all the mortgage servicers but we have spoken to them that we are not engaged in any kind of settlement negotiations. as mr. dante explained, without receiving information throughout the industry, we stand up in agency and trained to understand how this industry works. but we have been completely unambiguous and telling participants we are not part of the settlement of negotiations. >> you still stand by the fact you are not actively campaigning for your preferred settlement? it's yes or no. >> yes you are no you're not.

>> i don't know what you mean by the word campaigning. i think my ideas are good -- >> are you actively campaigning with the participants? >> we're not talking about the mortgage services. >> mr. chairman, regular order. the gentleman i apologize, but your timeout has expired. without we go to the gentleman from ohio. >> thanks for being here and thanks for your surveys. i'd like to go back to the way you see your responsibilities. what do you believe is the major purpose of your job today in terms that protect consumers? >> the purpose of the consumer protection agency as i see it is to give consumers a fighting

chance in the credit market place, to get enough basic information that they can make their decisions about what products they want to use. >> and come into your belief that prior to the creation of this agency that consumers really didn't have a fighting chance? >> congressman, i just think there's a lot of evidence they have not had a fighting chance in the credit markets over the last decade and in some cases longer. >> would glassfish and the pasadena document loads, then the observation? >> in my view, yes, sir. >> what is the area you intend to focus on with respect to today? what are some of the most important consumer services you'd like to perform? and what you say about the public if they have a complaint

that they get it to you? >> thank you, mr. chairman. the first one is not enforcing current that i'm enormously excited about is that we will have bank supervision who will be in the tanks, the 111 largest financial and petitions in the country, very big financial institutions, checking to see if they are complying with current laws. this is about expanding the law. this is taking the 19 statutes out there that are currently seven different agencies, bring it to one place. we will have people who will be in those things, looking at books, looking at records, determining whether or not -- >> you also auctioning by reference the current complacent? >> yes, sir.

>> when you're in the banks, what are the statutory obligations with respect to their compliance with u.n. are you any resistant? >> congressman, were not there yet. we will go to the first time next thursday is the first day that we'll statutorily up great to show up at the bank. now i do want to overpromise. we can't go to every bank on the first day, but we are putting in place our plan for how to get out there. >> so walk me through that. you knock on the door of the bank president, call ahead of time, send a letter, what do you do? >> we send the letter. we had to do serious risk events. >> how many letters to think of sending out? >> at the beginning? i anticipate will probably be spending -- i'm worried that steve makes when i get back in

the range of about 20 letters. >> and they go to banks based on their annual revenue or how to determine? >> bank supervision actually takes into account a lot of theories about how much risk has been in in the individual bank poses and how to assess those risks. the risks sometimes affect a lot of people by only a few dollars. it affects only a few people, the really big dollars. >> he sat out the letters to essentially a private process so that no one. if you get a letter that they are warned they are expected to cooperate. >> yes, sir. >> how many people arrive at the bank? >> as you know, we do with the

largest financial limitations, but a team could be anyplace for five people may be up to 20, 30. it depends on the kind of product were trying to supervise any given moment. >> one last question. as you get the agency up and running, it is very number or maybe you are beset this, an address that people can communicate to e-mail or web address they can contact if i have a complaint quite >> two things very quickly on that. we have an upside untrue website up and running rate now, consumer finance.gov. >> one word. consumer finance.gov. not very catchy, but people can e-mail us now. we will have a formal complaint process in place starting on july 21st, starting with credit cards.

or going to do this byproduct. we're starting innovative here. or the first of july 21 and the others will follow. >> thank you very much. >> i thank the gentleman. the gentleman from michigan, mr. walberg is recognized for five minutes. your estimated to be the last one. >> at her last but not at all. thank you for your endurance. and the press release, it has been noted that the cfpb has determined that it will consider supervising such things as debt collection, consumer reporting, sooner credit related activities, money transmitting, check-cashing related services to >> the non-bank financial is just to shut phase, we will

automatically be required to supervise three types of institutions, no matter their site. private land income of payday lending in mortgages. for the rest of consumer financial services not handled by banks, we are required as a nationstate to supervise the largest -- the largest decisions. we are required to do setup a rule to determine what that is what areas that goes into. what we have started doing this are not in the final rulemaking process. >> when will that be? >> a formal rulemaking? and ferry. first we have to get better information before we're ready to do a formal rule. we started the process they bring in industry participant, community banks, credit unions, large financial institutions, trade associations.

>> any specific criteria used in determining these? >> well, this is the interesting question given the open texture of dodd-frank on this point. we've actually been talking with other stakeholders about what is the right approach here. we've got very creative ideas. we're trying to work with industry to find the right we do this. >> the statement of the openness of dodd-frank doesn't give me a lot of comfort about not simply consumer protection, but the protection of liberty, estuaries, individual freedom and self-determination as well. i guess that's why ask criteria. you indicated is fairly broad. >> i want to say as best they can, we have gotten enormous support from the industry, from

consumer groups, from banking groups, for the process the air using to try to embrace everyone's participation in this and give them all an opportunity to help us hammer out a rule picasso work in we're working on right now. how does the impact that a ruler vacation will have on consumers and without legal protection they are deeply in place consumers before the euro can promulgate a rule or regulation? >> well, the best way to say this is we are building a strong research function. it is our view is that it our responsibility to study and understand how markets are

working, what consumers actually face, with community banks actually face in terms of a regulatory hurdle, how markets operate. we will be at data-driven agency. i think we've proved that starting back in february before we were even formally launched. when we started a process to do an analysis of the card at baghdad passed congress family brought in stakeholders from across the industry. we develop data, asset data so they could evaluate. >> let me ask in the remaining 43 seconds how much weight on another area will be given to the fact that many products and services are already regulated than in the states in the equation here? >> it is how much regulation arrogates the period and if

there are no problems -- >> how much weight does that play? >> big. i mean, it's important. it's heavy how much regulation is, how will enforce the regulation is, how can you stand the regulation is throughout the country. those are enormously written to us as we go forward. and i should say it really needs of industry, consumer groups, looks exactly an issue that's been raised and there were some differences of opinions between the community banks and the nonregulated financial services about how much effect at regulation. >> i would just encourage you that the original intention was not for the states. >> i thank the gentleman. for faster warren as i predicted, additional members

have returned. could you be kind enough to give us a to another 15 minutes? >> of course. >> it's still been a long day for you. but i'd like to do during this intervening period is an announcement that the ranking member and chair have agreed to a series of joint letters related to specifically and is germane to the area you will be involved in a week from now, related to the members of the military almanac dvds. we are going to require different ways to outside entities, some of which are banks, some of whom have good race. sun apparently had done discovery, which is why we've got to check this sincerity to. bring that together and see where we go from there. i now recognize the gentleman from maryland.

>> mr. chairman, i went to thank you for your cooperation. we're trying to make sure we zero in on this problem and i know you share my concerns in all of her concerns. this and what not i guess we are withdrawing our motion. >> i thank the gentleman. this is in the area of the committee, although it is not exclusive jurisdiction, does want to make sure that this historical event is never to be repeated when it comes to military overseas. with that, i recognize mr. greeley for his found questions. >> professor warren, i heard to claim a name for which cannot be read by customers. the reason i state that is because on october 13 of last year, president of understanding to the my writing nights, which i thought for years to get to both the house and senate.

and that means an october 13 at this year, every federal agency is going to be required to use plain language and cover documents, using writing practices that are clear, concise, well-organized and written for the intended audience. and this is something that has brought bipartisan poured, but part of what is intimately wrong with the way we rate regulations in the latest financial products are written. and i would give you strong incentive to take a look at plain language and plain writing standards as a way of looking at how consumers can be protect it in a much more powerful way and that's something would consider. >> congressman, i've argue a and i am a huge advocate of the notion not only that financial

services companies out to be required to write in plain language, but that the government itself should be a slow. and i want to say, it's an uphill battle. it's hard to push, even within her agency, we have well-intentioned folks, but we all learned different ways of reading regulations and attack to community banks around the country who say, i went to comply with the law. i can't read it and i can't afford to hire an army of lawyers to come in and read it for me and tommy what i'm. i can tell you the direction we want to go is exactly where you worry. i can also tell you if a battle to get there. it's hard, but it's something i'm very committed to. i'm committed on behalf of the american people and community banks and credit unions and others who really suffer under

the notion of your legally obligated what it is. >> is ranking member veterans affairs economic opportunity subcommittee, i participated in dealing with this underlying problems of these lung complication story servicemen and women in a attended the forum we've been talking about here today, but i have a concern. my concern is we hear that about too big to fail. but as it comes to providing some level of responsibility for these lenders, i fear we've gotten too big to punish. because when you look at magnitude of this problem in the existing sanctions to punish it, it's obvious it's not achieving its desired effect. i want to give you an example. i went back to dubuque, iowa about two months ago for a welcome home ceremony for young marine who lost both of his legs above the knee. in thousands of people turned

out that day to line the route from the words and dubuque to his home. and we passed by many community banks and credit unions that it signs out front welcoming him home. and this gets down to the problem of who holds the paper in our increasingly complex mortgage industry. i guarantee you with one of those local banks the past had engaged in the types of things we talk about at these hearings, they would've been run out of town by the peep hole on that parade route. and i am concerned because the american people are not as outraged about this part is as you an ira members of this committee are. and it is an insult to the people who put their lives on the line every day that we allow this to continue while these institutions continue to profit. and all you do.

>> mr. fehr fehr and hold the texas county recognized for five minutes. >> thank you very much. i like to yield my time back. >> i think my colleague for yielding. he previously written big corporate interests led by the consumer finance industry are desiring families in getting out the guns. >> yes, sir. i sure have. previously we had a number of questions about whether or not you at 10 products. now, how is your opinion changed in this time? because it seems like what you read or was previously as they are projects that should be banned. >> know, congressman. they are are a part of available in pink markets. it does not require. the ending is not the only tool,

probably not had the most effect of tool. i think the best place to start in changing the world in which big corporate interests you at the american families and spit out the bones is to make prices clear, risks clear so people can make head-to-head comparisons with three or four credit cards, three or four marketers. i believe in the power of individual americans to be about to make a decision tonight believe in the power of marketing, but people don't have that information. >> okay. and actually i think you sound very similar to what i said over and over again. and so, i like what you just said. is it your intention that the cfpb for not being products or can you make some statement

about intention because we have a lot of folks at a consumer finance industry and those accessing products that have it turned about the euro. if you can make some statement to that, that would be positive in terms of certainty if that's not the intention you have. >> we've made clear it with no present intention to ban a product. but we are still learning but south are in the world keeps changing in things keep developing out there. it is a tool in the toolbox and that's where should stay. >> used a bank the ability to ban a product should continue, that power should still reside with the cfpb? and that congress is that when they put tools in the toolbox and make bank with the help of industry, the hope of consumer groups, good research, we are prepared to use those tools in

very effective ways. >> assured me to say that acs, to think it should continue quite >> thank you. with that, yield my time back to you and i think mr. quinta -- >> i yield the remainder of my time. thank you, mr. chairman. not to follow up with two specific items. number one i just want to make sure we're clear. he had taught about raising compliance costs and i think you said your goal is to reduce compliance costs. can you just affirm that the stated: they expect tatian is to reduce costs or credit to consumers? >> our first item that were working on is to reduce the cost

for the credit issue ends. >> okay, so if the next year they come to congress and say look, the cost is going up, you would like to hear from us? >> congressman, i suspect will hear from him even before you do. >> sector may come you talked about greater disclosure -- greater disclosure and use it earlier in your testimony today. you just said you believe in the power of markets of information. i shared the belief of you with the chair. you also said it should be a tool in the toolbox. could you give me an idea of when you take the tool out of the toolbox quite >> congressman, we don't have any present plans. i can't identify specific products. i remember, this an agency rebuilding over.

gone are in an agency built in the aftermath of a consumer credit industry that would have filed. they invented new products, new approaches, new ways to surprise people, to sell people products that the issue is going to explode and never make it clear to the customer. whether or not there will be a day when a creditor will figure out i can make a fast buck with something that is so lousy that the answer is that should actually be found, that take god. >> i thank you. the time has expired. >> professor warren, we're going to practice a. and if it's okay, i played the ranking member and i stood a few minutes with you afterwards. additionally, i would ask it

this time, would she be willing for those who kindly sent to submit the questions would you be kind enough to answer for the record? >> of course, mr. chairman. we'd be delighted. >> mr. chairman, i'll be very brief this morning. how to simulate thank you for all that you are, but also thank you for all that you are not. when you told a story about how you came on, it was an easy and that you never have forgotten your own struggles and that impart you are very fortunate to get a good education at harvard. and i just went thank you for never forgetting what you've been through to make other people. i met a lot of people in my life with a lot of passion. one of them was the president of

colombia, south america. and your passion is just phenomenal. but i thank you for synchronizing. so i don't know what your future may bring, but if they were to land today, the fact is you've heard he had a tremendous impact on families and generations yet unborn. and i just want to when you walk out of here to know that there's a whole lot of people who really, really appreciate you and what you stand for and they are inspired by you. and that's why in baltimore we had to turn people away because they just wanted somebody -- somebody to stand up. they thought they wanted. and you take on that role. i know it's not always been

easy. i know there's been some difficult moments, but we could unite and am so glad we were able to have this hearing because at the chairman said, this is the hearing we sit back and we get a chance to answer the questions, to lay out your goals, what you're trying to do. but anyway, as i said before, we thank you. >> this hearing stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> the library of congress is

considered one of the greatest photographic resources in the world and we're here and the civil war photographs exhibit. if you were to look at every photo that library collection and send in each, how would it take? well, you financers about this unique library on c-span's original documentary, library of congress library of congress arion bissonnet. we'll turreted great tall and reading room. we'll show treasures found in rare books and special collections, including the original thomas jefferson library and presidential papers from george washington to calvin clue which i learned how the library is using technology to discover hidden treatments in collection and holdings for future generation. join us for the library of congress is monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span. if elected every photo in this collection and spent just one minute on each, it would take over 24 years to see them all. >> the world's newest nation,

south sudan declared independence from sudan months saturday. the u.s. special envoy to sudan, princeton lyman was for the ceremonies. he testified before the senate foreign relations committee about the u.s. policy in the region, the continued military conflict along the new porter and disagreements between the two countries over how to share oil revenues. this hearing is an hour and a half. [inaudible conversations] >> figure it figure it will come to order. thank you all for being here this morning. ambassador lyman communistic privilege to welcome me back to the committee. we appreciate enormously the work that you are doing is the president's special envoy to

sudan and i want to just thank you personally. i had a chance to see working in many meetings we've had together they are in sudan and i've been extraordinarily impressed by your study, called, tireless commitment to working under difficult circumstances to make progress. as the essence of good diplomacy and i really congratulate you. i think the president in the nfc in all the folks, the secretary clinton have been engaged in this affair. they did a terrific job of laying out a roadmap, living up to it, nurturing the process and staying committed with a lot of people thought it might've been impossible. i know that six months, nine months ago, even a year ago when

we were working on integration and yourself, there were a lot of doubters as to whether or not a referendum could ever take place. i think it was the good efforts of a lot of folks who came together and stayed steady and our allies in that effort. the norwegians, others have been particularly committed to day said they think it shows what cannot you people who stay focused and put their energy into things. so we welcome you here this morning to discuss a remarkable and rare event that took place last week, the birth of a new nation, the republic of south sudan. six months ago when the referenda that set this in motion, i had the privilege of

being in juba with you, ambassador in others, and it is really impressive. i had the privilege of speaking in the cathedral with president keyer and millions of southern sudanese student in mind for hours to cast their votes for independence. i remember coming out of one of the voting place is on a defensive -- come to some of these people are going to walk away. their lines are so long and they can wait that long to go. cybernet defendants that, you know, hope to be patient and wait to vote. so help me, two or three people in good english cherner said senator, we've been waiting for 56 years. we can wait a few more hours. they didn't mind it. i'm on saturday, as a result, i've been a half decades of waiting came to an end and

today, even as we are here now, events are taking place at the united nations and south sudan becomes the 193rd member. we should recognize that i know you do, mr. ambassador provide the reality is that two nations emerged on january 9. the newly independent south and the greatly changed our. both of these nations are fragile and remain in atlanta with reach an agreement that allows them to live separately but worked together. sedan in south sudan share more than a poorly defined border and a bloody history. they share traditions of migrations that must be suggested. traitors that need to be reopened and they share a mutual

interest in not merely of waiting all-out war, but in crafting a lasting and genuine peace. iba is at the heart of this conflict ended any lasting resolution. turmeric on international peacekeepers will begin to arrive there and i hope they can pave the way for the return of the tens of thousands of displaced, not dinka do call abyei home and addresses the needs of the misery migrants as well. abyei is one crisis point. southern cordis tanis another. once again, we are chilling reports of serious human rights abuses by government sources. there are new and serious allegations. shelves are falling and the news or not. people in need have been cut off from humanitarian relief. sudan must not put down this road again.

southern kurdistan meets the modern and both sides need to agree by a cease-fire. chastity is a recurring and they messed up and they must be accountability. despite these grave worries, there are also positive signs. sudan was the first country to recognize the south as an independent state. this was puzzling to acknowledge that fact, not just because it suggests hope for the relationship between north and south, but for the relationship between sudan and the united states as well. because of the january referenda president obama initiated a review of sudan's designation as a sponsor of terrorism. completion of the process press on the review itself as well as the resolution of all the issues

have dna from the comprehensive peace agreement, including abyei and obviously this process will not go forward if gross human rights violations are taking place. finally, the true transformation of the u.s. sudanese relationship runs through darfur were. khartoum needs to recheck his recent return to a destructive patterns and recognize that reform can bring with it a new relationship with the international community, including the united states. i very much would like to see that happen, but wishful thinking will not bring about its actions by the guis make that up in. we're also entering a new relationship with south sudan. along with president sonicare, we hope july 9 will mark, as he said in his words come a new

beginning of tolerance, unity and was in which cultural and ethnic diversity can be a source of pride and strength, not parochialism and conflict. south sudan bears the scars supporters had many forms, including roads, schools and hospitals that were never built. they provide their own sense of permanent scarring. they must also overcome internal corruption and internal rebellions. but as they ever showed the world, the people of south sudan are capable of rising to the challenge. america has stood with the people of sudan throughout these struggles. we hope to broker the cba, provided billions of dollars in humanitarian assistance, representatives including ambassador lyman working tirelessly as they say to bring the parties together. and we must remain involved as

there is a lasting peace in the region. i would remind people that were there to waste their breath the longest word in africa's history and it cost over 2 million lives. the last thing we want to do is go backwards. senator lugar. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. by chewing in welcoming back a distinguished witness who has a long record of service to our country, the experience in african affairs. on july 92011, the public of south sudan was declared by elected government to be independent of the republic of sudan. this is a rare, modern milestone is one that follows the case of depression and conflict. the people of south sudan have realized their dream of independent and deserve recognition for their sacrifice and commitment they have made to achieve this in the face of

enormous. the people at the united states from government officials to religious and academic communities to citizens have had a profound impact in elevating the importance of resolving this deadly conflict. there is a prospect for a new life and economic and social development in south sudan. nevertheless, violence remains a real prospect for billions along the borders of these two newly defined countries. each country's respective security forces are continuing to engage in three disputed areas along the common border and they remain untold suffering, scarcity tension within both countries as well. the leaders of each country to acknowledge the challenges and begin to respond fairly to the needs of the people and build

upon an inclusive vision of the stable and project future. the challenges are daunting. both sudan and south sudan represent widely diverse populations with a history of often violent titian. khartoum will continue to develop regions in the north that prato irish elk of the omar al-bashir government. millions displaced as a result of genocide in the eastern province continue to suffer atrocities. in south sudan, leaders and train for msr and how to cover and empower a new country with few common ties a date in common enemy. that enemy will remain a threat as it was through proxy militias during the case of lawyer. the prospect of civil war across the south wins if the oil becomes the source of

intertribal conflict, rather than any two countries. oil, primary source of income could also be a bitter disappointment because many experts believe that is limited in diminishing. so sudan will initially chewing and then the top of the list of the world's failed states under circumstances. while a comprehensive peace agreement of 2005 achieved the independence celebrated last weekend in juba, there's been little progress in concluding the essential agreements between north and south also required by the cpa, such as wealth sharing and porter demarcations. the new country has limited governance capacity, we cannot exist in government institutions and heavy reliance on out like

donors. high capital cost limit prospects for private investment it can increase the likelihood of competition among ethnic tribes and diminish the odds for near-term stability and growth. while the united states should maintain its critical interest in a statement prepared to south sudan as well as a more responsible and responsive republican sudan, it is evident these countries must begin to deliver for themselves. the united states has played a prominent role so fired from the poor to concluding the cpa secretary powerless effort to stop the genocide in secretary clinton's recent direct engagement at the u.n. on a peacekeeper or agreement. now the information as clearly defined and limited its responsibilities and expectations associated with a long-term relationship. the heavy burdens now follow the

people should be tempered when and where appropriate by the international community. maybe saved ethiopia, kenya and uganda must help integrate the new country into the region while balancing emergent threats such as the approaching famine and the horn of africa and the human calamity and therefore, which? a peace process. i think ambassador lyman for his diplomacy and look forward to hearing from him today of the international community can access in the sasser across the city and in the united states government has worked to date and prospects and its continuation. thank you very much, mr. chairman for calling a hearing. >> bandsaw, senator lugar. normally we just have to openings about the chair and ranking member, but today were

going to make an exception to that rule. senator isakson has taken a great interest in this area, this region as well as in this issue and is taking the time to travel there and therefore it's my pleasure to recognize senator isakson for an opening. >> i want to do two things in particular. first try to think my name for his service and acknowledge in the last 10 years between the bush administration an obama administration, there've been five special on by his beginning with mr. danforth americus brought aboard the peace agreements, culminating to create a south sudan. the site admin at what to do is relate knowledge with the chairman said in his remarks with regard to the admonition to the north regarding the removal of state-sponsored terrorism

status. that is the process predicated of good behavior and is predicated on a speed sure there is no more violence and the atrocities taking place in that world. that's an important component part of the overall deal we need to bring about a peaceful election which took place. i thank the chair. i think princeton lyman for his service in the fortress testimony today. >> mr. ambassador, you pleasure to welcome you and i look forward to your testimony you >> thank you very much, chairman kerry, ranking member senator lugar, two giants of leadership and it's a very great privilege to be here. senator isakson has taken such a great interest in africa are the tiny but on this committee. it's really a privilege to be here. thank you for the kind words. i have to say i've never worked on an issue in which there has been so much sustained support

from the administration from the president, vice president, national security council, secretary, community, people in the house, peopled the public makes an extraordinary amount of difference. it's a high priority for the united states in the united states public in all branches of our government and that makes a tremendous difference in the work we try to do. thank you very much for all your doing. i would like to submit a statement for the record if that's all right. >> without objection will be placed in the record. >> thank you. i agree one of the first things to recognize as one of the fundamental object to is that the comprehensive peace agreement was for people of south sudan to have a choice as to whether to stay within one state are separate and make this choice in january and on july 9 they were able to achieve their independence and there was an

extraordinary event in the privilege for me to be there, a very happy event. there must've been over 100,000 people at that ceremony and it was quite moving. i think all who have been working on this for decades, senator isakson is quite correct in many administrations have that many people in and out of government can take a great deal of satisfaction from what has happened in that regard. nevertheless, as you are pointed out, in the past few months have not been free of conflict and they have been free of tension. the parties failed to reach agreement by july 9th on the most issues that they face to have a full and good relationship. and then we had crises in disputed area. in the abyei as he pointed out and out ongoing conflict caught the many deaths and abuses and

displaying over 70,000 people in southern part of god. we have to focus a lot of our efforts in the last few weeks on those two crises to keep them from derailing the process. the entire relationship between the two countries after july 9 is going to be one that is not yet free of tension and not free from the threat of future conflict. the next few weeks will be critical in this regard. you must follow through on the agreements on abyei an agreement that allows the enhanced peacekeeping force to come in for the abyei for the ethiopian troops can withdraw a sudanese armed forces that took over abyei a few weeks ago. we can't have a political solution while it's been occupied by one say militarily. the process is just getting

underway and must be implemented. they also have not resolved one of the most important economic issues between them and that is the financial relationships related to the oil for her. and i fear if they don't calm to some resolution by the end of july, we could have a serious confrontation over that issue. threats from each site to keep down the oil flow are not helpful and they only raise the specter of confrontation. this is a difficult issue for the south to deal with because they see any final resolution of how to share their resources for oil is linked to the solution for abyei another unresolved issues and timetables now are not in sync. so what we are urging us by the end of july they reached an interim agreement to keep the oil relationships going inside of the firm timetable for

telling the abyei remaining issues or disputed border areas. they both face problems inside their country as you indicated. we're very concerned about the situation. the fighting broke out there. as you well know, southern kurdufan was heavily involved in the civil war. people thought on the side of the south, but our friend southern kurdistan and her family as pla which comes from southern corridor kind. the cpa called for political process called popular consultations in which their political rights would be a journalist in grievances. the sudanese armed forces and the as pla units. the issues are complex, political, security. we are very concerned for

credible allegations of targeted ethnic these killings and other gross human rights abuses. as you said, carries these abuses must end. there must be an investigation and perpetrators held accountable. the two sides signed a framework agreement covering both southern kurdufan and it provides for talks with both political and security issues. unfortunately, president bashir has not reached objections to portions of the agreement and puts the negotiation of risk. without those talks, without parallel political as well as security talks, the chances of ending hostility and reaching the thousands of the neighbor frankly find. so we hope these talks would resume very shortly. in the meanwhile, we call on the

government, which so far has resisted in allowing for you and presence to remain in blue nile because we need the presence and help the humanitarian humanity of these. now the situation in darfur were, which you've unmentioned remains a very serious problem as well. in fact probably today, the government and one of the armed groups, the liberty movement, the lg and are expected to sign a peace agreement or protocol around the peace agreement. one other major group, justice and equality movement is best on the fence and most of the others do not take part in the doha peace process as well. we emphasize to the government of sudan that signing an agreement was a positive start,

but has to continue and be ready to negotiate with the other events. they can't say now we've done it and the other room movement sinusoids are outside the process. we're also going to let the other armed groups are not very interested and therefore so much as they are interested in riot change in sudan and are fighting on that basis, which mix almost impossible for them to become part of attire for base political process. we urge them to come to the table and negotiate around the issues of darfur are. also, to look ahead, we need to engage the peep hole. they deserve a much of a right to participate are greatly in determining not only the process of peace, but their future. but the conditions aren't ripe yet for carrying out the

political process. so we have set forth a list of conditions that we think are very important to create what we call an enabling environment you can have a darfur of this process, lifting the state of emergency, free political prisoners, allied for freedom of movement and expression, better rates for united, et cetera. ..

>> we have told car tomb as you pointed out that we are prepared to help and laid out a road map to normalize our bilateral relations, and the president followed through after the referendum on january 9th to open up some licenses and to initiate a process of reviewing sudan's designation as the state sponsor of terrorism, and that revie is continuing, but we can't move forward as all of you have pointed out with improved bilateral relations as we've said in the road map. if the government of sudan does not fulfill obligations from the cpa, and that's not just the position of the united states. it is also the view of other members of the international

community and of international creditors. negotiations, of course, require readiness on the part of both parties to take what are often very difficult political decisions so we will be working with both the ncp and the splf to encourage a commitment to reaching agreements on all outstanding issues as soon as possible. now, sudan, again, as you pointed out, faces e enormous government and development challenges. anti-government militia are causing havoc in parts of the country, and the government needs to respond both politically and militarily to these challenges so that legitimate local or ethnic grievances are not ignored. there's a staggering lack of infrastructure on educational levels on which to build development. the government of south sudan

will depend heavily on international support as well as its own resources to address these challenges. we have strong ties with south sudan, and they go back many decades, and we're committed to continuing that partnership and helping them meet those challenges, but we're not going to be alone. the u.n. is inaugurating a major program helping the government in a variety of areas. other donors are coming in in various aspects of economic and security assistance, but we told the leaders in juba, that to succeed, they have to work to build a democratic and inclusive government that embodies south sudan's diversity, republics human rights, and delivers services with transparency and accountability, and i'm very pleased that president tehr in his inaugust grail address spoke

to the issues at the ceremony in juba. the challenges ahead are great, but the historic occasion last saturday offering a new beginning for both the people of south sudan and sudan, and it is now up to the leaders of both to turn this moment of promise into lasting peace. over the coming months, the obama's administration's engagement is unwaiverring and will be a partner to all those in sudan and south sudan who seek a better future of peace and prosperity. thank you, and i'm more than happy to answer questions. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, mr. ambassador. that was very helpful and very comprehensive. i appreciate it. let me begin by asking you on the issue what is your -- first of all, do you have any evidence at this point or hard information with respect to the scale of the -- [inaudible] >> i don't have hard information on the scale, but it's very

credible allegations of very gross human rights abuses, and let me say more about this because i raised this with the sudan government. they have a pattern of fighting their wars in a way that invites gross violations of human rights. we've seen this historically, and we saw it in abyei, and now in southern sudan. the army comes in and supports militias, the people of forces and other groups who come in and loot and kill and do all these other things. i said to the government of sudan that this is not the way an army in the 21st century fights wars. there's human rights principles, and they don't follow them. as long as they do that, they'll always be subjects to the harshest criticism and sanction for what happened. this is not the way to fight a

war even when you're fighting a war. now, what's happening in -- it's raised fundamental issues because what the political issues in blue nile raise and in darfur is how is the government of sudan structured with the position of the south? will it be a government that recognizes diversity that decentralizes authority and opportunities for wealth or be highly centralized in trying to force the issue? that's what's really raised in southern kurdufan. by the former deputy governor, these are the fundamental issues they fought for during the civil rare. they are not prepared to be disarmed or have their forces integrated into a single sudan army until they know these

political issues are being addressed. the other side, the government says, wait a minute, we can't have two armies in one country. we have to disarm you first, and that's not possible in this situation. that's why the agreement they signed to deal with the political issues as well as the security issues was so critical, and we have to get them back to that agreement and get those talks underway, otherwise we're not going to get either side to agree to a sensation of hostility and be able to open the door to humanitarian aid. >> the splm north kart -- khartoum agreement? >> right. >> i'll be speaking later this morning, but it's important to log calls to the north also to emphasize that everything that

was talkedded about in the road map and all of the transitional components that they're hopeful can be possible with respect to debt and future and as we've said, but i want to reemphasize it. it depends on their behavior and what happens in these next weeks and months in terms of accountability, and so i hope to the degree they're listening to this hearing or any of our other comments, it's not a matter of dictation. it's a matter of living up to international standards of behavior and their own promises so this is going to be a critical component of their own ability to succeed. i know there's a lot of turmoil in the ncp. a lot of questions about future politics of the north which is why i mentioned that they are also a new nation now, and they

have to figure out a constitution and other components that meet with this new situation, but we will back you up, and i want them to know that to the nth degree with your efforts to create kt -- accountability here to move us to a new standard, and i think that is absolutely critical. >> thank you. >> do you have any sense how rapidly or where we stand with respect to getting the cease fire or restoring the monitoring presence and perhaps reestablishing humanitarian aid? >> i wish i could be more optimistic on this, senator, quite frankly because i've talked extensively to both sides on this. i talked to leaders of the splm north and talked to the government about it. i think until we get those political talks going, it's going to be hard for them to agree on security side.

now, what we have pressed for -- >> until you get -- >> political talks processes are going, it's going to be very hard. now, they differ even on how to deal with the cease fire on the security side. we pressed hard on the humanitarian front that they got to allow for more help for the people being killed, displaced, ect., and so one of the things we proposed is how about a humanitarian pause, a 72-hour pause. that happened in other conflict situations where you get in food and medicine. both sides have said they are open to that. we're going to kind of press that if they can't reach a broader sensation of hostility agreement, but i'm hoping that the talks are going to start very soon and that they clarify the objections to the framework agreement and get started, and we'll continue to press on that. particularly if we can't get

longer sensation of hostilities, try to get a period where we can get help to the people who need it. >> do you believe among the leaders in the north there may be any doubts or reservations about how the united states may behave here? are our cards on the table sufficiently? do they have confidence in the road map still i guess is the way to say it? >> i think there's elements in the government who do not have confidence in the road map. every once in awhile we hear that publicly. i hear it a lot privately because they they we've moved the goalpost or accuse us of moving the goalpost, and there's people who continue to argue inside the government that don't trust the u.s., don't base your policies on that road map, ect., but i think we've made some progress in that regard, and we've stuck to the road map. we have not added new conditions.

you've made it very clear as you said in your opening statement and subsequently the conditions were the same ones that you talked to when you came out, and we have done our part, and they've got to do theirs. we keep making that point. i think more and more there are people in the government who do realize it, but it's still an argument inside the government, oh, the u.s. will never do this, and it becomes an excuse if you will for them following other policies. >> i think you made an important point that we need to think more about, perhaps examine more here, and that's the doha process and darfur itself. i gather that even this morning it's possible they may have signed that agreement in darfur? do you know if they did? >> it would be four o'clock

their time. i was told they did not sign. i know there was outstanding issues. >> when they do sign it or think about signing it, it still leaves us with the same problem, and that's an important one which is two major factions of the sla, the factions are not there, and as you appropriately stated, they have a different agenda, and i think we all are going to have to think carefully about how you measure it. one of the things i heard repeatedly from people over there is look, you can't hold us to the darfur accountability act which requires a complete settlement in darfur before you do certain things with us if the players in darfur aren't choosing to be part of the process, and if their goal is our overthrow, that is different

from the struggle that took place in terms of genocide in the 2000s, 2004 and 2005. i think that's frankly an ill-legitimate position. it's fair to say if those groups have a different agenda, behaving differently and going to do their own thing, not the mention the other groups who are kind of criminal enterprises to put it bluntly, i think we have to think very carefully about the makeup of those groups. i wonder if you can comment on that. >> well, senator, it is exactly as you say, and we have said to those groups very candidly that you can't expect the government to come to the table to talk about your overthrowing the regime, and we've said something else. we said if you're interesting in change in sudan, why don't you demonstrate that by getting change in darfur and becoming a political part of the process?

we've pressed them very hard on this. i think some of them are watching as to what happens in southern kurdufan and the north and south and whether there's a great deal of instability and how that effects their calculations. i think if we're successful in containing the situation in southern kurdufan, it will help their directions on where to go. we're clear on that, and you're right, the government has a legitimate complaint if the groups are not prepared to talk about darfur and engage in a peace process. we'll continue to press them on that, and your point is quite valid. >> senator lugar? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to ask you to zeus for just a moment -- to discuss for just a moment the role of the united states as we go forward not only in south sudan and in sudan including

darfur and the three contested areas in this respect -- will the international community join us in large measure, or will the united states again be the default stablization and nation building lead? if the response is that the international community will join, can you identify some of the players? which countries are likely toke involved in joining with us or have already for that matter? this is of considerable interest i think to many americans who take a look at the responsibility, understand our interests in humanitarian way, but ask who else in the world, and so describe, if you can, that context. >> i'm glad you raised that, senator. up until now, we've had a large degree of international

involvement. other donors contributed roughly $700 million a year to southern sudan in humanitarian activity since sudan -- of course, others carry three quarters of the peace keeping budgets for the new vision in the south, for the new mission in abyei, but i want to take it to another point that you mentioned because i just meant before i left in khartoum with the representatives of many of the european countries, and we were asking that very question. how should we organize ourselves now when the cpa is formally over? even though the issues, several issues remain -- how should we organize ourselves now to continue to have a major role in bringing about peace and resolution of the issues, and we're talking about a number of ideas on how to create or recreate, if you will, this kind of group of international

countries all of which committed to the peace process. we have the african union, of course, as the mandate to oversee the negotiations on north and south, and we work very closely with the colleagues on that, but we need to think now in this new situation how to do that, and i'll come back to you because we agreed to think all together about this, get together again in a couple weeks and think about exactly that. how do we keep up not just the donor program, all of which are very important, but politically, how do we act together in the consistent way on the issues we've been just talking about? >> well, underline maybe obvious to us listening today, but underline why it is important that it be the international community opposed to just the united states as the default, describe at least the feelings in north, south, darfur, what

have you with regard to international participation. >> well, it's very important, and others have special contributions to make that are extremely important. the british have played a major role in the security sector reform in the south. they have connections in the north that we don't have that we can draw on. the dutch are extremely knowledgeable about all the arab tribes along the border. the norweigans play a role with oil and how to treat the oil sector. the e.u. has its own set of sanctions and responsibilities, and so working together, it reenforces the political impact that we can all have, and also, of course, sharing the burden of resources. i want to mention two other countries that play a major role, and that's china and

russia, and i've been in touch with both of them about their role. china, as you know, is a major investor in the oil sector in sudan, and we have urged them to play a very important role on issues of southern kurdufan. now, china understands they have important investments in both the north and the south because the oil industry in which they heavily invested is in both the north and south so they are picking up rapidly their relations in the south and stability becomes very important to them, but we look to them to play a very important role in this regard. i met yesterday with the deputy foreign minister from russia because although they are not as heavily up vested, -- invested, they are arm spliers to sudan, a member of the p5,

and how they play their role with us in the security counsel is extremely important, so getting them as well as our western european friends on the same wavelength becomes very important so that the messages that various parties are receiving in khartoum are consistent. >> you mentioned specifically china. this may be simply an amateur reflection, but a good number of americans have observed that throughout all of the problems in darfur, the charge of genocide and what have you, religious groups who have come to see many of us here in our offices in the united states, the thought that kept coming through is china realized some very bad things were happening, but oil came first, that the desire to get the oil out come hell or high water so dominated the situation that despite

diplomatic overtures by ourselves or others, the chinese were not particularly forthcoming. what is likely to change in the current situation? >> well, i think two things. one, the emergence of south sudan is an independent country with 75% of the oil so if oil is one of their interests, then having not only a positive relationship with south sudan, but also stability and no confrontations over oil, no turning off the pipeline or turning off the oil pumping, ect., which each side might do in a confrontation, and it also means they have to balance their relationships in khartoum and juba. they are not inclined to trade one for another, but they do realize they need good relations with both, and that gives them a stake in seeing some of these conflicts resolved and not having instability or conflict between the two, and we talk about that a lot together. >> last year we spent as the

united states approximately $1.5 billion including half a billion dollars for peace keeping in the sudan situation generally. what is your estimate of whether these sums are likely to be larger or will there be asks by the administration for more than $1.5 billion in the coming year, or can you give us any benchmarks as our whole budgetary situation as you recall is tense elsewhere, but sudan is important. what would you predict in this area? >> well, i realize that we have one of the largest combination of peace keeping operations in sudan than any other place in the world. we have the combined au force in darfur, and we have a new mission in south sudan which is not so much -- partly peace keeping, but a lot of assistance to creating a viable government

and system in the south, and now we have this special force in abyei, without which we would not have got the sudan forces to withdraw. i don't see any major additional activities. the government of sudan has said we don't want a continuation of the u.n. in the north, but there is a role, and not a heavy role, in helping monitor the border that's under discussion, but it's not another big mission, ect., so i don't see any major new mission requirements, but i can't say that these -- the ones we have will diminish in the near future until some of these big issues are resolved. >> thank you very much, sir. >> thank you, senator lugar. senator isakson and then senator udall. >> thank you, i'll be brief.

my impression while in khartoum as far as their view of darfur is they were content to fight a surrogate war because it was far enough removed that they didn't feel the pressure to do so. you made an interesting comment a bit ago talking about how they are watching southern kurdufan and because of its proximity, if the north continues the allegedded or apparent -- alleged or apparent atrocities we've seen from satellite and others, that changes the paradigm a lot and runs a greater risk of a new war in the north, does it not? >> that's exactly the risk and the one the government needs to avoid. they don't want a war in the north. they complain about what they think is an attempt to create a new, as they say, a new cpa between the southern part of sudan and the rest of it, but the fact is if they don't

address those basic political issues in southern kurdafan and blue nile, ect., they'll have serious problems in southern kurdafan. yeah, these are linked in the since that the government in khartoum and they need to think through what kind of a new constitution they need, what kind of a new political -- what set of relationships they need, but they haven't indicated just exactly where they are coming out, and they are being challenged forcefully to make those decisions and hopefully not make them with just the military response. >> so the north, which is interested in south preservation first and foremost in terms of the government, runs a risk if they continue in the southern kurdufan first with the the removal of the state sponsor of terrorism, plus running a risk of hostilities against them, is

that not correct? >> that is really a major risk. >> hopefully that's a motivating factor for them. >> hope so. >> have they done better with ngo's in darfur? i know there's been manipulations of visas in and out. >> it's still not even or satisfactory. u.n. has better hack eases than -- access than before, but not perfect. we still run into problems with the ngos, and it's one of those conditions as we said there's a dog based political process because it reflects a lack of openness and movement so we continue to work on those all the time. >> well, you mentioned the conditions are not right yet for a darfur agreement. the main condition is that khartoum is not ready to be a player in doing that; is that correct? >> i think khartoum is not yet ready to create an atmosphere of

real freedom inside darfur. you could have a real political pr process there. we've had occasions in the past where people speak up, and then they are arrested. now, they just released political prisoners yesterday, but there are more so people have to feel that if they speak out in some kind of a domestic political process, they're not going to be ha rased or -- ha rased or -- harassed or jailed. that's not something you create overnight. you create it and watch it happen. they have to lift the state of emergency. they said they will, we'll see, but until you have that environment, it's hard to say that you can have a really effective darfur base political process. >> there are somewhat masters of their destiny if they would wake up and realize that. >> they are. they are. there are movements fighting, but they have a lot of opportunity to create an environment that's very different in darfur.

>> as i said in my opening remarks, thank you for your service and thank you for being here today. >> thank you, senator kerry, and i also want to thank you, ambassador, for your service. south sudan, one of the critical issues is education, and as you're very, very aware, it's one of the least educated countries in the world with one of the highest rates of illiteracy. i'm wondering, are there any plans to increase the amount of u.s. volunteers to go to south sudan? would it help our relations to -- strengthen our relationship with them by encouraging young americans to volunteer to help teach the next generation? >> senator, i'm glad you raised that because you're right. it is one of the highest ill

literal sigh rates, and it will be a major drag on development. we do have a lot of ngo's and a lot of church-related activity including sudan churches which are providing the bulk of health and education services right now. we have had some discussion of whether we could bring the peace corp. to south sudan. you have to be sure that the living conditions are possible and the other things there so we'll look at that and other ways for ngo's and young people to volunteer because i think there's a real opportunity. one of the areas is that teachers who are coming back to south sudan from the north have been teaching in arabic, and so epg lish language -- english language training will be important even for teachers who are trained as teachers but now need to train where arabic is not the major language. there are opportunities of the

kind you mentioned, and we'll pursue them and i'll let you know what happens there. >> you mentioned the peace corp.. are you doing an evaluation to see if the conditions are ripe to have the peace corp. there? >> there's been some discussions of it, and i'll check with the peace corp. what the next plans are. we have to wait until the south is independent, but i'll check with them and see what their current thinking is. one of the officials was in fact at the ceremony in juba, so there's been some discussion back and forth, and i'll check on what the status is. >> one of the -- you mentioned the lack of education being a drag on development. one of the other issues is this issue of sustain about and -- stainability and land use, those kinds -- the use of natural

resources, and i'm wondering what we're doing as a country to ensure the sustainable development practices are put in place and so that they'll be crop land there viable for future generations. >> well, you know, we have been fortunate, and i appreciate the congressional support on this. we've been able to draw on the bureau and the department, the conflict of reconstruction and stability -- crs bureau, to provide a lot of the serge capacity for the bureau to deal with sudan, and one of the things they've been doing is providing expert teams that go out to all the states in the south and look at what are the issues out in those areas -- land is an important issue. land ownership, land management, ect.. especially as hundreds of thousands of people from -- who had left the south are coming back. local corruption questions are

important, and that information is leading us and the u.n. to structure our programs to reach out to the state and county level and urge the government to deal with those issues out there because those could be sources not only of injustice, but of instability, so issues of land, issues of access, opportunities, ect -- these are important issues, and we'll getting a handle on them and trying to build up a capacity of the government to deal with it. >> and then also i think infrastructure is currently lacking in south sudan, and if south sudan is going to achieve some economic freedom, then it will need to be able to bring goods to market. what needs to be done, the improved transportation and create the infrastructure needed

so that farmers can sell their crops outside the country? >> when you fly over south sudan, you don't see hardly any roads. u.s. aid is building a road down to the border and a couple other roads, but we're hoping other donors come in more heavily on infrastructure. we'll do a lot in agriculture and health and education, but we're hoping the world bank comes in, the chinese, and others because exactly right -- we're going to do a lot in agriculture, but if there's no roads to market the commodities, they will not have the right result. we'll look to other donors to do more in the infrastructure area. >> great. thank you very much, and thank you for your service again, and i see senator coons is here, and i'll yield my time. >> thank you, senator udall. i want to thank you senator kerry and lugar for their leadership and i thank

ambassador lyman and all the dedicated people who work so hard to make south sudan achieve independence. less than a year ago it looked unlikely independence dame could come for south sudan, and not only did it come, but it came on time through a free and fair referendum. while we celebrate them as the 54th nation in africa, we remain concerned about the path tabaret with the north and south border and in darfur. we'll soon introduce a resolution welcoming independence and congratulating the people of south sudan and calling on the governments of both sudan and south sudan to resolve the issues and the final division of abyei, the oil, the citizenship, and as you detailed the deep troubling conflict in southern kurdufan and abyei remind us of the toll of human

conflict. that's why the united states must continue their sustained efforts to urge peaceful resolution to the difficult ongoing challenges that south sudan will face to become a peaceful and stable nation. ambassador, you addressed the situation already in abyei, but i'm interested in what a final agreement would be of a ref referendum. we discussed this months ago, and what became of the proposal of abyei that i hoped had the backing of the international community. >> thank you, senator. what happened is that, as you know, the president as part of the high level panel was to develop a proposal back to the two presidents on abyei, and the timetable got derailed by the military takeover of abyei, and even though the government said, well, we can have a political solution while occupying it,

nobody felt that that was a situation that was tentble. we were diversity verted and lost -- diverted and lost weeks. it's going to -- this feeling now is we've got to get those peacekeepers there, the troops out, and begin to get the displaced, about 100,000 people, back in, and then that will be a better atmosphere for bringing a final solution idea to the table, and unfortunately, what that does is delay this for weeks and maybe a couple of months. i'm very bothered by that, but i understand the logic of it and its impacts on the other issues, the oil, ect., but the advice of the most of the people working on this, people are close to it, and i've talked to people on both sides and others involved

is we need to make sure that abyei is demilitarized and that people feel safe, and then we can deal with this issue so it's been delayed, and i'm bothered by it, and that's why i said earlier i think we ought to have a very firm timetable for addressing it because otherwise it just lingers as a source of conflict. >> i think you mentioned the peace keeping mission. if i understand correctly, there's three peace keeping missions across a wide area. >> right. >> i'm concerned about coordination, stainability, the quality of the troops in some of the peace keeping missions. what sort of work is being done to coordinate around supply lines, logistics, the quality and stainability of the troops engaged, and for how long do you think they'll continue operations or continue to be necessary? >> this is an issue that our colleagues in u.n. have been concerned about as well.

there's three different missions right now. there is talk of creating a special envoy who will work on some of these issues from the u.n., and it hasn't been finalized, but one who is dealing with all of it, but i think right now we're going to have to rely on the leadership in the u.n. on the ground to do this. the peace keeping operation going into abyei response to the points you just made -- that is the effectiveness of peace keeping operations. the peace keeping operation that was in abyei was not effective. if it had been, we might not have had the crisis we had, so we turn to a country we knew would put in peacekeepers who would carry out the mandate vigorously, and that's the

ethiopians, but it took us a long time to work that out, and i think they're going to be there for at least months and maybe longer until we get a resolution. mission in the south is a big mission. it's going to be there for awhile. if we can get darfur settled, it would be wonderful, but, you know, that's going to take some timement i can't honestly put a timetable on when the missions will end, but i think this issue of coordination is very much on the find of the u.n. and our u.s.-u.n. people, and as they work through that more, i'll get back to you with some of their ideas on it. >> last i know you already addressed in response to senator lugar some concerns about china and their role, but i'd be interested in whether you could elaborate on where you see the interests of the united states and china overlapping with regards to sudan, south sudan, and are there examples of china playing a constructive role. what advice do you have for us? we're going to have a hearing on the role of china in africa within the next few months, and

i'm concernedded about better understanding what constructive role they might be able to play or be asked to play in south sudan. >> well, i think, you know, china's going to be -- is already a vigorous player. in africa they have important commercial as well as political interests. some of them correspond and overlap with ours. sometimes we're in competition. in sudan i think it took a long time before we got on the same page or darfur. >> uh-huh. >> a long time, but now as i mentioned earlier, now that south sudan is independent, they have a stake in resolving the oil issues and stability and having a good relationship with both. i expect them to develop a fairly substantial presence in south sudan. i'm hoping they'll contribute to the infrastructure areas as well as other training. we look to them and we've discussed this together with the

chinese, in their contacts with president and others in the north to press hard on the points we discussed earlier about resolving issues in southern kurdufan and the chinese stood with us in the p5 and u.n. security counsel to urge the north to keep a presence in southern kurdufan and the blue nile. we are getting close there, and it's an opportunity for us to see them making an even bigger contribution. >> thank you, ambassador, and thank you for your service as well. thank you, mr. chairman. >> [inaudible] >> mr. ambassador, our relationship right now with the north, with sudan, is both caught up and controlled by, as you know, a number of overlapping laws that have been

passed over the course of about 10 years, but obviously as of last saturday, the map has been completely redrawn. in looking at the map, i see that you are currently able to do certain kinds of worveg in dare cur, south kurdufan and blue nile, but you're not allowed to do it along the rest of the border, but obviously the relations between sudan and south sudan are not limited to those areas now, and particularly, there's this cuteness of delivery i think on our part both to the south and the north -- to south sudan and the north, so my question is we, as you know, our staff has been working on how to figure out how we might adjust some of these laws which i think personally is important to do for a lot of

different reasons, not the least of which i think we're constrained in our ability to deliver to the north, unless we do so would you comment on whether or not you think that it would be helpful, for instance, for you to have the legal authority to work on a peace empowerment zone that stretches across the entire border rather than having certain sections carved out the way it is now? >> there's a lot of attraction to that idea, senator, because the border area is where a very large portion of the population on both sides live, and there are a number of flash points there. there's disputed border areas, there's going to be questions of crossing borders of mutual development, ect., and i think it's an area where we can make a significant contribution. if we have the ability to work wherever we thought, that would help alleviate both pressures in humanitarian needs, and i think

it would be wise. >> can you share a sense with us of the projects that promote ever lasting peace? >> well, part of the problem that arrise is the my gracious north to south, the access to water and pasture, ect.. what we talked about in some cases is can you get joint development zones that transit north and south that would make people comfortable that both -- everybody's developing equally from that kind of development. you would also ease some of the migration pressures if you could develop better some of the pastures and water above the line. we see that in abyei and southern kurdufan. that would help alleviate the attention, but equally important builds cooperation. you really want on the border

cooperation tween the governors on both sides, and a lot of the governors are interested in that, and perhaps the programs that had that could be useful. >> what about authority to work in areas like food security or democracy projects? >> well, i think the -- you know, on food security i think the government of sudan is going to face a lot of very difficult economic challenges. they are losing a lot of their oil income, but as somebody -- one i think it was senator aye sackson -- isakson mentioned or you, senator lugar, that the resources don't last that line. the economic adjustments are going to be great and food production is one of sudan's great potential if they would invest in it. now, i think that our readiness

and willingness to do so should, however, reflect the political relationship and their fulfillment of major issues like cpa and southern kurdufan. opening that possibility up is important for the people in sudan and it will be important for everyone because of the trade -- >> would this provide you with leverage in negotiation? >> i think it would be important in terms of demonstrating something we've tried to say over and over again which is the interest of the united states is to see two viable successful state. without that, there's not going to be stability in either one, and that we don't want sudan, northern sudan, to be in deep economic trouble anymore than we want southern sudan to be so,

yes, it sends an important message to say that if you're moving in this direction, coming back into the international community, we're very serious about the people of your country not going into economic turmoil. >> well, let's assume that you get an agreement ultimately of a grand bargain that addresses abyei, borders, and critical issues including the apportionment of debt. would you not need some kind of legal change here or redress in order to address the issue of debt relief? >> there are very clear restrictions as you know in the legislation on that. debt relief is an extraordinarily important issue for the government of sudan because under the agreement they

have with the south, they have taken on the full burden of that $38 # billion of debt -- $38 billion of debt. on the conditions that the international community will afford them debt relief and that the south will support them in that politically. i think as we move forward, the president will need an understanding with congress about those restrictions. right now, it's in a technical mode. that is the world bank's doing what they have to do which is to gather all the detailed knowledge of the lopes and reconcile the records of the creditors and non-creditors. after that it moves into a series -- >> we need to address it. >> i think it's going to be important. >> okay. just a couple quick other questions. how would you say south sudan government is doing right now in terms of prioritizing its own

governance agenda? >> i think it's still in very early stages. we are working, u.s.-aid is going to schedule a conference here in september, it's not a donor's conference or pledging conference, but for them to come and present that, what are they priorities and developments in government and how can the public and private sector help? they are in the early stages and have been focused on becoming independent. they are moving from being a liberation army to being a government, and that transition is not entirely complete. they have to engage in a new constitution. they have an interim constitution, but they need an constitution that brings much more participation into the process. i'd say they are at early stages on a lot of those things and will need a lot of encouragement and help. >> you mentioned the question of

the army in its own transition. i guess they have a force of 140,000 soldiers, but they incorporated within that rank a number of different armed groups. my question is, i mean, i don't think that's sustainable for the long term both politically and otherwise, so what should their priority be for security reform and should we have an impact with respect to that? >> one of the ways in which they deal with some of the my militia is incorporate them into their army meaning the or my gets bigger. it gets bigger before it gets smaller. >> in parochial terms. >> a great number number of the forces are illiterate and not trained for anything else. rushes into demobilization process is not good because then the people are out there with no

way to make a living with no way other than to join another my militia. what the government talked about, which we think is the right way to go, is a program that develops the skills within the military, builds a mission of defense and oversight and then engages in a program of reduction and demobilization where people go out with skills to be able to make a living so we are now working with others on this issue of security sector reform, and this exactly are the questions we're working on them with. >> final question -- some people have -- well, up until now, i think we've provided non-lethal support and some military assistance in support of the transportation of their security sector. there are some, i won't say it's

a huge debate, but some suggested now they are an independent nation, and it may be time to consider the provision of lethal support including air defense training, technology, ect.. do you have any counsel to this committee with respect to that? >> we have not made a decision to provide lethal assistance. we're focused on the issues you first raisedded. how do you develop this into a more organized, better professional military force? we have made no decisions on legal assistance. we do so or contemplate and want to come back to the congress to discuss that before we make a decision. >> we'll welcome you back. we're going to stay actively engaged and try to provide some transparency to this transition process, and hopefully that can be helpful and assist you in the process, and we'll do it obviously in consultation with

you, ambassador, so again i just want to thank you personally of the -- i need to run to another thing. senator lugar, any questions? >> [inaudible] >> let me finish my thought. thank you for working with the committee, and we look forward to continuing that. thank you. >> thank you for that, senator. we're grateful for the interest you generate on this. >> let me continue forward about the lack of a constitution, and you tried to fill in some of the gaps, at least as far as my understanding, barring a constitution. there is at least a military force there and its expanding as you suggested taking in militia and so forth, and so for the ordinary observer of this, they say essentially the government

right now is the army or the military force. is this true in the sense -- are there generals that are leading this, a general at the top of it? in other words trying to describe what the executive authority is in the country, something to look at in terms of the military hierarchy at this point? >> they do have an interim constitution which was signed on the independence day ceremony. it's supposed to be an interim constitution, supposed to last -- it doesn't have a terminal date which is one of the sources of great controversy, but the pledge is to have a much more broad based process for developing a permanent constitution. this constitution that they just signed centralizes power quite a bit in the presidency. it was one of the sources of

controversy when it was developed. many of the leaders in the government are former generals who led the liberation struggle including the president himself and a number of others, and there's a long history of having fought, but there are others who are what we call people who come with skills in those areas, but i think this is the transition from growing heavily as they understandably have on their military leaders to fill these positions, and some of them are extraordinarily good, to building a broader based government that makes it clear separation between the government and the military, and that's going to be part of what security sector reform and constitutional reform should do. >> is there a basis for optimism as we observe this process

unfolding at the end of the day, by that i mean, not end of time, but say three or four years from now, we can observe essentially this government looks much like those governments in the so-called arab spring now, and by that i mean, essentially a strong map or woman -- man or woman as the case may be and someone not prepared to give up authority and surrounded by a military that is subserve -- subservient to that letter, and then what will be the debate in our country what we supported or helped produce in this case? >> i think the challenge -- i think we have to really stay very close to these issues with the government in south sudan because it's very tempting when

you're the overwhelming political as well as military force in the country to just run it as a quasi one party state and not see challenges to you as something to push back on, and that's a challenge, and we have ndi there and other organizations that we want to work with them closely to not let them go down that path. they talk about it. they're very conscious of it. they are aware that this is going to be a big challenge for them, but i think we have to keep those issues in our dialogue. it's political openness. it's fairness to allowing new political forces to develop. it's human rights culture, and i think that has to be on our agenda all the time. >> now, we've just touched upon oil and agriculture, but let me

carry this a little bit further. one of the points often made about recent egyptian experience was not just simply the young people in tahir square, but millions of people in the country who lacked food this year with the price of wheat doubling and egypt depending on us for 65% of their wheat in the amount of so-called subsidies was inadequate, and therefore a lot of the revolt came from people who were hungry. now, here we're dealing with sudan that we hope develops an agriculture situation. that could be true in the north and south for that matter or darfur besides, but there's only limited evidence, at least of this thus far, and furthermore as suggested, and you mentioned this, the oil may run out so the basic element of the money for

this state, even as they get it right constitutionally, is how are we going to make a living in south sudan? are the projects entirely a culture development or any potential industry of any sort? >> the food problem is true of both the north and the south. food prices have been rising. there's been a weakening of the currency of the sudan popped raising the price of imported food, and the south dependent on food coming from the north as well as the south is also faced very high prices on food. ..

and it's got potential to develop the infrastructure for it. but i think in the south, our culture is going to be very critical and it's going to make people more self-sufficient and reliable. it's going to cut down the need for food imports, which they now rely on heavily. and then bearing minerals -- other mining and other opportunities. in this tree maybe if the infrastructure improves. a feature in east africa union for companies that have a test says that the net fee

opportunity for a bigger area, but the ability to profit is going to depend on developing more infrastructure and capacity. >> this is tv for another hearing at some point, but let me just say tenet very much. >> okay, thanks. i'll include in this moment. essentially, one of the dilemmas and development of agriculture and countries, leaving sedan out of it altogether has been disagreement between united states and european friends on some genetically modified seed or procedures. and there still is a debate in brussels. the dilemma here obviously, the gates foundation, if you are looking for the kinds that yield increases that have made agriculture a very different situation in the night dates.

i've seen on her own car and farm, my dad getting fortier be bushels for the curve corn. only because we adapted procedures that are in dispute internationally. and this is why as we take a look at the international involvement in sudan, i am hopeful that somehow the humane streak will come all over as can the europeans as well as the united states because otherwise the possibility of being defined as yields that will be required to support the population are pretty distant. and this is likely to conflict, leaving aside all the other reasons for the most essential reason people may fight aids before they start.

so i'm outputting to cram every notimex and the question. in our delegation to sudan, there are people who are gifted in this particular scale and it would be true of assistance for getting too low african countries presently. >> well, i have rather start feeling, but i don't but i don't know if the u.s. government position is. frankly the debate does not compare to africa. and he got there at the bottom billion about an article not long ago taken the same point you did a much i agree with in this technology that may be vital and essential and not to have the opportunity to develop those. i'll have to check and see where the u.s. government is. the right shot, our u.s.a. administrator told me in his visit to southern sudan that the

technology we could introduce today would have a dramatic effect on the yields in southern sudan. he's very optimistic that we can do that and is very focused on it. i hope to get a chance to talk to him because he came back enthusiastic. also the administrator is terrific and she's heavily focused on these opportunities. >> this is great news as well as the new secretary secretary of agriculture in sudan on the right track for the benefit of the people as well as some degree of peace, at least in that situation. featuring the chairman once again in thinking is so much for your coming today. this is a very important hearing and is given. for an encouraging testimony to us. >> thank you or disagree privet chalets to be before you. >> i conclude by saying the hearing is adjourned.

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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> coming up next on c-span two come in today s-sierra for former first lady, betty ford.

>> the library of congress is considered one of the greatest photographic resources in the world and here in this little war exhibit. if you look at every photo in the library's collection, how much would it take? welcome you find lots of answers about this unique library and c-span's original documentary, library of congress airing this sunday night. we'll tour the iconic building, including the great hall and reading room and show treasures found in the rare book and special collection, including the original thomas jefferson library and presidential papers of george washington to college glitch in the library using to oig to discuss it in secrets and collection and preserve its holding for future generation. this monday night at the eastern and pacific on c-span. if elected every photo in this library's collection and spent one minute on each, it would take over 24 years to see them

all. >> a final private funeral service was held today for former first lady, eddie ford at grace episcopal church in grand rapids, michigan. lynne cheney, wife of dick cheney and richard norton smith gave eulogies. under president clinton and former first lady barbara bush also attended. following the service, betty ford was buried beside her husband, former president, gerald ford at the gerald ford museum. this is an hour and a half. >> in jesus christ, we receive

the body of our sister, ready>>n for beer radio. let us pray with confidence to god, the giver of life that he'll raise perfection in thef company of 15. eeliver your servant, then he th has sovereign lord christ fromb all evil and set her free from every bond issue may rest with all your saints and the eternale habitation, where would thents father and the holy spirit you h lived ande reigned, when god forever and ever amen. let us also pray for all who mourn, that they may cast their care and god and know the tha consolation of his love.

almighty god, look with pity upon this areas of your look servants, mike, jack, steve and susan and their families for whom we pray. remember them board and mercy, nourished them with patience, m comfort them with a sense oferp. your goodness. lift up your countenance upon. them and give them peace throug jesus christco our lord amen. l amen.

n and >> i am the resurrection and the life of the lord, he got believe it than me, though he very dad, yet shall he live and whosoever live it didn't believe it then me shall never die. i know that my reteam religiousn

and i.t. shall stand at the latter day upon the earth and sl does this body be destroyed yet shall i see god, whom i shall see for myself and my eyes shalm behold and not as a stranger. for none of us live this to himself and no man die if to himself. for if we live, we live unto the lord. and if we die, we die unto the d lord. whether we live therefore great guy, we are the lord's. li veblessed are the dead who die n the lord, even though status. in

for the rest from theirhe spirit, for they labors we remember before youe this day her sister, peggy.ore sisternk you forgiving her to us, her family and friends to know and to love is a companion on our earthly pilgrimage. and your boundless compassion,or

console us who mourn.cosion, give us faith to see him dead theayed to eternal life say that and quiet confidence we may continue our course on earth did so by your call we are reunited with those who have gone before reunited with those who have gone before, through jesus christ our lord. amen. most merciful god, whose wisdom is beyond our understanding, deal graciously with mike, jack, steve, susan, and their families in their grief. surround them with your love that they may not be overwhelmed by their loss but have

confidence in your goodness and strength to meet the days to come, through jesus christ our lord. amen. >> a reading from the prophet of isaiah. house thou not known, house thou not heard, the creator, ends of the earth, neither is weary.

there's no searching of his understanding. he giveth power to the faint and to them that have no might, he increased strength. even the youth shall faint, be weary, and the young man shall utterly fall. but they will wait upon the lord, mount up with wings as eagles, and they shall run and not be weary. and they shall walk and not be faint. the word of the lord. >> thanks be to god. ♪

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>> if i speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels but do not have love, i am a noisy gong or clanging symbol. if i have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains but do not have love, i am nothing. i give away all my possessions, if i hand over my body so i may boast, but do not have love, i gain nothing.

love is patient, love is kind. love is not envious, boastful, or arrogant or rude. it does not insist on its own way. it is not irritable or resentful, it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. love never ends. but as for prophesies, they will come to an end, as for tongues, they will cease. as for knowledge, it will come to an end. for we know only in part and prove size only in part. when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. when i was a child, i spoke like a child. i thought like a child. i reasoned like a child. when i became an adult, i put an end to childish ways. for now we see in a mirror dimly

but then we will see face to face. now i know only in part, then i will know fully. even as i have been fully known. and now faith, hope, and love abide. these three, the greatest of these is love. the word of the lord. >> thanks be to god. >> my brother mike spoke in palm springs and i have the honor to just say a few words about our mother, and it's right. if the greatest of these is love, mike, jack, susan, dad, me, we were really blessed, because we had a mother, dad got a wife that man, she just knew how to love. and i just kind of have been soaking all this in. we were in palm springs, i was standing in line there, talking

to one of the well wishers, and he said something to me, i had to think of it awhile. he said your mother's funeral is sort of like decommissioning a great grand ship, and i thought about it. she was grand. and if our family was a fleet of ships, dad was the aircraft carrier, i know that. and when i think about mom, i walked away. and this morning i was walking across the bridge to go to the museum and thanking people and shaking their hands, i thought about mom and that idea. if mom was in our fleet, which she was, she was the hospital ship. she was the one with the love and the comfort, and she was the first one there to put her arms around you. and when you celebrate a victory, she was there. when you had a defeat, she was there to hold your hands. her comfort, what she gave dad and his support, and that idea of the love that later everybody

saw, this was before the spotlight. with mike, jack, susan, we were little kids, and she did that hard, hard, hard work of raising kids, and she got us up, got us breakfast, got us to school, and church, football practice, and the dentist and doctor, and many of you in this audience know dad was on the road a lot, serving his country, being a public servant. mom was home to raise us kids and we felt her love. i am ever grateful. we felt that love long before her spotlight came when dad became vice president and then president. and then the country and the world got to see her love. for cancer patients, alcoholics, drug addicts, and how real a person she was. and they loved her. they just loved her.

i sort of share a special bond with mom that, well, with millions of others i guess. 19 years ago when i went through my alcoholism, my mother was the first one there for me to comfort me like she comforted so many others. and she was the first one there. and it was actually funny, because i remember going to my mom and saying mom, i know you've walked in these shoes already, i think i am an alcoholic. and she was just like every other mother in the country. she said oh, no, my son is not an alcoholic, you can't be an alcoholic. i said mom, stop, you can't be in denial. you're like betty ford, you know? you're like the poster child for this thing. but she was. she was just like every other mother in the country. and once things settled down, she gave me one of the greatest gifts, and that was how to surrender to god.

and to accept the grace of god in my life. and truly in her arms i felt like the prodigal son coming home and i felt god's love through her, and that was a great gift. both mom and dad left us kids a great legacy, and an assurance of our faith. i have been smiling for days because i know where mom is. she's with her maker. she had a personal relationship with god through christ. many of us have sat there, our family, time and time again, i can tell you hundreds of times i sat and held mom's hand and we prayed together, and we talked about the joy of our salvation through christ. and that's what puts a smile on my face, because we know dad's there already, and mom is heading there now. they gave us great legacy, a

great gift. mike, jack, susan would tell you the same thing. they used to boldly sit with us at the table or someplace and they would explain to us how every night they would pray for us, as little kids, growing up, finally when we got to the white house, later, and dad or mom would tell the same story. they'd say your mom and dad, you know, at night when we go to bed, we pray for you children, and at the end, we hold hands, and we recite our favorite proverb. three, firsts five through six. to think my parents every night held their hands and were able to say trust in the lord with all your heart, lead not on your own understanding, in all thy ways, acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path. that's a gift to us.

mike, jack, susan, thank you, mom. thank you, mom, for loving us, loving your husband, loving us kids, loving the nation with the heart of god. we miss you. god bless you.

♪ amazing grce, w ♪ ♪ that saved a wrech like me ♪ i once was lost, but now i'm found ♪ ♪ was blind but now i see. ♪ ♪ was grace that taught my heart to hear ♪

♪ and grace my ears received ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ the holy gospel of our lord jesus christ according to matthew. and soon the multitudes, he went up into a mountain, and when he

was set, his disciples came unto him, and he opened his mouth and taught them, saying blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted. blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. blessed are they which do hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled. blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see god.

blessed are the peace makers, for they shall be called the children of god. blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake, rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so persecuted, they the prophets which were before you. the gospel of the lord.

reverend holmgren, honored guests, mike, jack, steve, susan, and all of mrs. ford's family and friends, in these last few days, so much has been written about betty ford, and the words have been wonderful and true. yet still sad to hear, because they're also meant as a good-bye to one of the finest, dearest people any of us has ever known. for each one of us, what a joy it was that betty ford was a

part of our life. the last time the nation saw mrs. ford, she was here in grand rapids on that long day when we laid her husband to rest. from then on, she was content to go her way and live out her days in the company of a few friends and her loving children and grandchildren. but she remained among the most admired women in the world. public life was behind her. but mrs. ford's reputation wasn't the kind that needed cultivating, just the mention of her name brings good and hopeful things to mind. i got to know mrs. ford about the same time the whole nation did. she was the first lady who less than a year before had been a stay at home mom, on crownview drive in alexandria, virginia. what started out as the nixon, agnew years suddenly became the ford rockefeller years, and the

times brought a few unexpected turns to my own family as well. my husband was called into service by president ford, and before long, i had the privilege of knowing the first family. how many amazing memories we share. when i was around mrs. ford, what always struck me was how so many incredible things could happen to one person, from suburban life to the white house in a space of ten months, and still leave her unchanged. through it all, she kept her bearings, across the years she was the same candid and completely unpretentious woman. mrs. ford once said that walking out on the south lawn and saying good-bye to pat and dick nixon was the saddest day she'd ever known, and no one appointed with her character and kind heart had any doubt that she meant it.

mrs. ford was not only elegant and graceful, she was delight fully honest and modest. when she rose high in the world, she observed it can happen to anyone. after all, it has happened to anyone. but when the attention of the world turned in her direction, elizabeth ann bloomer ford was ready. before december, 1973, her life was all about home and family, and there was time for little else. in her memoir, she recalled i was lucky enough to have these four children. and they were terribly interesting. at least to me. i was a den mother. i was a sunday school teacher. i was an interior decorator and peace maker and zookeeper. she loved her children. susan told me earlier today that she had gone in early july to visit her mom on her, susan's

birthday, and that her mom from her bed had sung her happy birthday. and i know with what love she did it, and i like to think that today, on gerald ford's birthday, she's singing to him mrs.ewow to cook a pretty good meal, too, or serve one up, susan said i should say. at least to judge by one story i have heard, it's from the time her husband decided to challenge charlie halak for minority leader, and it was an intense con test, and bright and intense young men working around the clock in gerald ford's behalf scheduled a 6:00 p.m. meeting. but congressman fordree fused to stay for it. nope, he said, i am going home. betty has made a pot roast. she had the domestic arts in hand, and she was fierce about their importance. she knew how hard women work in

the home and how important that work is, but in a way that many of us can relate to, there were times when she wondered what else she could contribute. she had danced at carnegie hall, sat for photographers before she was a congressman's wife. she had dreams of her own, talents of her own that went beyond being beautiful, though she was certainly that. blunt as always, she said that sometimes, and i quote, i felt like a nobody, like i was being left behind. as it turned out, betty ford had so much to give the world, so many contributions to make, so many lives that she has changed for the better and even saved by her example and efforts. she not only became her own woman, she showed a lot of others how to do the same. when jerry ford was president, and reporters wanted to know the

first lady's opinion, they didn't get demure evasions, they got the full dose. when a visiting prime minister confessed at a white house dinner that he didn't know how to dance, he got his first lesson then and there from betty ford. and when her husband lost his voice at the end of the 1976 campaign and was unable even to read his concession speech in the white house press room, it was the first lady who stepped forward to read it for him. looking back on all that had happened, she spoke of living a page of history, and betty ford filled that page. and she filled it with style and class and courage. she hadn't expected her life to be part of history, much less the trials of her life, and yet when americans remember betty ford, many will always think first of how she dealt with illness and how she brought

things out into the open where they can be faced and fought and conquered. there are uncounted thousands of women that survived breast cancer, and in many cases you can draw a straight line right back to betty ford. the same can be said of many who struggled against the hurt and desolation of addiction as she did. she once said i'm not out to rescue anyone that doesn't want to be rescued. i'm grateful to jerry and my family for coming to my rescue. but accepting help is sometimes a lot tougher than giving help, and betty ford became a witness to the wonderful possibilities of renewal and recovery. she not only sought and found the best treatment, she built something grand and permanent for others in need. her husband's legacy is a time of healing. her legacy in part is a place of

healing. they taught us so much, that gracious couple from grand rapids who said their vows in this church more than 60 years ago. betty ford dressed in blue satin, carrying red roses walked through those doors with her handsome boyfriend, jerry, into a future beyond anything either of them imagined. and they walked together for so long. and they lived in the faith that promises reunion. their story has come to an end, and now we've said farewell to both of them. the rest of our days, we will cherish what it was and be thankful we knew and loved betty and jerry ford.

>> to be remembered with joy, betty ford once wrote, has to be a kind of immortality. she imparted more than her share of joy. long after leaving the white house in january, 1977, she and the president found themselves on a plane bound for houston, and a dinner honoring the legendary coach, vince lombardi.

it was exactly the sort of road show event that congressman, vice president, and president ford had graced thousands of times over 30 well traveled years. and yet it was different. for tonight, he was coming as citizen ford, an honorable title to be sure, one he would gladly have postponed in exchange for another four years in the oval office. as they neared their destination, gerald ford indulged in some uncharacteristic brooding. he accepted the invitation while still residing at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. he hoped the audience wouldn't feel let down, hearing from a mere ex-president. cue mrs. ford, exuding sympathy while offering reassurance. don't worry, honey, she told her

husband, it's me they're coming to see anyway. [ laughter ] instantly, his doubts dissolved inve repeated itself since the crisp fall day in 1948 when elizabeth bloomer walked down the aisle of grace episcopal church with grand rapids' most eligible bachelor. her bridegroom's idea of a honeymoon combined a wolverine football game with an outdoor political rally, addressed by owosso michigan's famous son, thomas e. due ee. listening to politicians on a frosty october michigan evening was not an experience the new bride would remember with joy, but it was good practice for a life defined by the unexpected. at the time, betty ford could hardly imagine while governor dewey would never live in the

white house, she would. once the issue quickly established herself as a first lady unlike her predecessors, not content to make history, she became one of those rare figures that make a difference. a lasting difference in our public culture and in our private lives. in time, her name would enter the language, less for her activities while in the president's house than for her contributions after she left. more than a lib rated woman, betty ford was herself a great lib ray tore. next to the family in which she took fierce, unbounded pride, perhaps her best accomplishment was to lib rate us all from the crippling limit of labels. at once a traditionalist and trail blazer, sunday school teacher and seventh avenue model, mrs. ford was the feminist next door, a free

spirit with a dress code. above all, she was a wife and mother. if you have any doubt on that score, ask mike, jack, steve or susan. during his years on capitol hill, it was congressman's ford's habit to work saturdays at the capitol. often he brought one or more of his children. before they were at least to play hide and seek in statuary hall, the congressman directed them to a nearby battery of manual typewriters. write your mother a letter, he told them. tell her what a wonderful mother she is and how much you love her. all this week, americans have been sending their own expressions of love and gratitude to mrs. ford. the technology may be different, but the emotions are timeless. millions who never met her felt as if they knew betty ford.

millions more wished they could. they identified with her struggles and from her courage in the face of adversity, they took inspiration to confront their own demons. little of this could have been predicted in summer of 1974, when the fords many assumed them to be a family cut from the cloth of a 1950s sitcom. after all, hadn't an early "washington post" profile of then congressman ford's wife singled out this one time cub scout den mother for her face in, quote, quiet suits and, quote, slightly more talkative hats. more labels. more limits. in mrs. ford's living bible for august 9, 1974, the day's recommended verse proclaimed i will keep a muzzle on my mouth.

it was advice she conspicuously ignored. she had long since found her voice. among her milestones was a history making appearance on "the mary tyler moore show." it showed how far mrs. ford and the rest of us had traveled from father knows best. political advisers cringed over her famous "60 minutes" interview in which she talked about abortion, premarital sex and drug abuse. one irate user wrote in protest, to remind mrs. ford of what margaret truman once called the second hardest job in america. you are not an individual, he

informed her. an american woman with complete freedom of speech and action who has only to answer to the family unit, the social requirements of the neighborhood and the laws of her community, state and nation. you are because of the position your husband assumed, expected and unofficially required to be perfect. exclamation mark. it is quite obvious you were never put in your place and told by your husband that in this great country of ours you must retain at all times a position of beauty queen, mother of the year, high school prom sweetheart, grandmother of the year, church lead er, nurse and counselor to american women and girls. there you have it, the tyranny of perfection. betty ford helped to liberate us from that as well.

as first lady, she opened a conversation on subjects once banned from the dinner table and around the water cooler. she confided feelings of emptiness while struggling to reconcile her personal needs against the obligations exacted of the political wife. she acknowledged seeking professional counseling. she distinguished vulnerability from weakness, and she transformed the role of first lady to reflect not just a husband but a country that had come a long way, baby. where women's health issues are concerned, american history is divided into two unequal periods, before betty and after betty. once a lethal silence had env enveloped the subject of breast cancer like a london fog. before 1974 polite euphemisms

found their way into obituaries. victims died of a wasting illness. there were no 1-800-numbers to call. no patient support groups. no breast self exam cards. women visiting their doctor's office were never asked, have you had a mammogram. not for the last time she became a face not of disease, but of recovery. so mrs. ford's sense of humor and perspective helped improve the quality of life for millions of cancer survivors. this time releasing women and men, too, from private cells of secrecy, shame and fear. greater still was the stigma

attached to alcohol and drug abuse, especially for women, whose illness was too often confused with moral failings. mrs. ford insisted any treatment facility that bore her name must also reflect her special sensitivity towards women and their needs. she wanted it to be affordable, with charges kept low enough, as she put it, that a schoolteacher in nashville, tennessee, could go there for treatment. with the help of her friend and patient, leonard fooirestone, s created and sustained her vision. one day long before ground was broken, she was part of a group whisked off to las vegas on a private plane to see frank sinatra perform in concert. on the way back mrs. ford told her captive audience all about the unbuilt treatment center.

of course, she didn't stop there. there was nothing readily available to write out a pledge. so it came to pass that the first major do nations were written on cocktail napkins on frank sinatra's plane. her physical recovery was matched by her spiritual growth. initially she resisted putting her name on the facility. what if she fell off the wagon. later she gained personal responsibility for what everyone regarded as her most tangible legacy. a higher power was responsible for the betty ford center, she insisted. she was merely an instrument to be used in carrying out his plan. no one was proder of her