"chicago tribune" printer's row lit fest to talk about his book, "dietrich bonhoeffer's letters and papers from prison." it's about 45 minutes. >> thank you very much, and we'reelight welcome to the printer's row lis fest. we are delighted to have thisalk opportunity to talk with you about a particularly interesting idea, the idea of f a book. and helping us to parse through that idea is the recent author of just such a biography, dr. martin marty, who is professor emeritus of history at the university -- of religious history at the university of chicago, as many of you already well know. and he has written a biography of dietrich bonhoeffer's letters and papers from prison.

it's one of three books that's kicking off a series of such books from princeton university press. and to start our discussion, i want to read the press' description of what they're trying t i'll ask dr. marty to comment on it. they say that this new series recounting the complex and fascinating history of important religious text written for general readers by leading authors and experts is intended to trace how their reception, interpretation, and influence have changed over time, often radically. as these stories remind us, all great religious books are living things whose careers in the world can take the most unexpected turns. now, dr. marty, you've also recently completed and published a biography of martin luther, a

lutheran who somewhat predated dietrich bonhoeffer. what's the difference between writing a biography of a figure like luther and a book like dietrich bonhoeffer's? >> there's far more similarities than i thought i would find. when princeton university described the series and asked if i would kick it off, it took me five minutes to sign the contract. it was a new challenge. i didn't know of anything like this. the first thing you have to do if you write a biography book is forget about bilogical similarity. you don't want to say the book was born this way and went through adolescence and all those things. they don't do that, but they have careers, and they change in the light of the passage of time. i think of almost any book you read 20-30 years ago and think of its reputation now.

think of the books that were big in the 60s and 70s, if you're old enough to have been around then, they are very different books now. herbert and marshall and the coastal superstars then, and they don't show up now. that's, i think, the first thing. the other thing is biography of a person, you dig into letters. you dig into rem innocences and -- rem remanents and so on. this was just a delightful concept when i met the other authors and they told me about who the authors are and what they write about. that gives you a sense where to

take this diversity of what's going on. >> so the other two books already published in this series, one is a biography of a confession by gary wills who has, of course, wrote about this several times during his career, and then this is a biography of the book of the dead by donald lopez up at the university of michigan. each of them treats this idea in each of the three in a different way, and still and some of the books that are still to come in this series also promise to be very interesting, and vie -- vanessa is writing and bruce is writing a biography of the book of revelation. [laughter] just think about that for a minute. >> he finished in a hurry. [laughter] >> i think october 20th is the

deadline. [laughter] talking about the dead sea scrolls, and you did -- you did try to avoid those moments, but i thought one thing you said that was quite important was to think about not just the physical object, but its soul, the book's soul, so in thinking about dietrich bonhoeffer and what he left postwar theology, what is -- when you were thinking about the soul of his letters and papers, how did you come to assess that in terms of its effect on its readers? >> aristotle and leon and i describe it this way -- [laughter] it's the vital power of any

organic body so long as it's open to possibility and font -- opportunity and so on. a corpse has the same vessels that the man did, but it can't do anything anymore. what's missing? its soul. that's what i look for in dietrich bonhoeffer. for those of you who have not done a lot with bonheoffer, is i'll say a few things. he lived as long as martin luther king. often asked four people say in the spiritual field that made a living in the 20th century worthwhile. you hear mother teresa, martin luther king, dorothy day, and bonheoffer. he lived to be 39 and the last three years were in prison. basically he lived to be 36.

this is the newest edition of the book i wrote about. this is the one you might want to buy because it's affordable and carryable. it's the $16 -- 16 senior high volume series. he was ag -- active in underground activities, double agent in the cia if you want to call it that, spent a year in america, went to barcelona, had a church in london, all that crammed in there, and my search for his soul was what held him together. as a christian he was an ordained minister. you naturally look for what the resources for the faith were, and i find that he's held together by promise. the last thing he said as they led him to the gallows was this

is the end, but for me, it's the beginning. you can read that a lot of ways. take a traditional doctrine of the resurrection, one who fulfilled all he can in his life, yet foresees what happens because everything was unfinished at that time. that's where i most saw his soul. >> one reason, of course, we write biographies of anyone or anything is that we believe that the impact that that person has had on others has been in some way transformative, a biography of washington, a biography of lincoln, any of those, and so of necessity, a biography of a book is about the impact it has had on its readers and the uses to which they put that, and so particular of interest to me as i was reading your biography of the letters and papers was to think of the different kinds of

people that it changed. do you want to just -- and they are not at all similar in many ways which is fascinating too. can you speak to that? >> okay. the book has been translated into 34 languages. i bought it in bogatdbogata and cape town. it travels, and the first time it happened was to young people thinking of vocation. some went into religion vocation, and others steer their life in the light of it. that's not the central use today, but it's a variety of impacts. the first -- i brought a couple samples, and the first big book gives you a sample of what it goes to. there's an east german come mew nighs, and the stalinists were

running east germany where bonheoffer went to school and studied was one of these headquarters. they used these as a university, and they allowed faculties because the people there were catholic, lutheran, and reformed so they had to rely on what was pushed on them. we visited a theologian, and their daughter was a 14-year-old and she was going to confirmation class. they couldn't suppress the act of worship, but they could keep everything else out. bonheoffer adopts that and says this is to from the church to the world and takes the passages in scripture in which jesus is the figure that takes you out

into the world. it was approved by the communism authorities, and then another sample, i won't do many, but shows the variety, one of the great co-editors of the 16-volume series, this is bonheoffer in south africa. the son was a young leader in a movement that helps bring down the regime. they were reading this because they were running from him, how you outlast regimes, and it had enormous impact in that way. the hardest thing i think was to figure germany itself. first of all, the conventional historic lutherans had a real problem with him because luther wrote that every soldier is subject to higher powers, and if you resist them, you are

condemned. obviously bonheoffer resisted the powers and ready to kill the head man. what are you going to do with him? his own parrish was not allowed to use his name as a memorial. the closer you got to that -- the east germans took to it right away because he was upsetting the things they were after. today it's different. there's a bonheoffer church in london where he served for a year. almost anywhere in the world except his home turf is not the only prophet who had that trouble -- [laughter] they are getting now to the point where they are accepting it as you do. they do not think, and i do not think he was perfect. he didn't think he was perfect. he was essentially a pass vies and passists don't try to bring down the head guy.

the death penalty came about because the bomb didn't go off on hitler right away. how can you do that? also, he was writing a book called ethics. he writes a book on ethics without a library. how can you do this? you're a passvist and yet believe this this plot. if you were in the road, an a madman was going to go in the street, you -- i like to quote a professor in chicago who said you live by ethic of disstress. you don't say what you're doing is right. you're saying the circumstance in which you have to do something is one novel of world war ii said you must do what you must do and then say your prayers. he had a theology and an ethic,

and then he had to interrupt for this, and then go back to it. i think the crop call of that, you -- chronical of that, you don't find in his letters, but these letters are for different purposes. he has a young fiance, writing love letters to her. he wrote -- i can't do c-span without mentioning his best friend in life, his biography and so on. he likes to collect books, and the letters to him. his parents, last culture. he sent me copies of books he's reading. one of the reason is he likes fat books. some of the letters were in

code. if you wrote the word the, it's a pinprick through the letter t. he kept those things going, so that's combination, but most of the deep letters, the ones that have drawn most tapings on the world -- attention to the world. these were hidden. obviously some of them legal, many warrant. they were hidden in gas mask canisters and during up years later. none of this wouldn't exist if not for his best friend. he saved him. so many people asked to see them, and he stitched them together and made the book. >> it's an interesting fact about all three books launching the series that in many ways they are not books someone sat down to write for a particular

audience. he also stitched together by the person who discovered those texts and sort of americanized them. bonheoffer would not have imagined his letters and papers assembled in this form. he had scribes doing the work for him sort of -- the idea that a book affects people justifies a biography. the idea -- another thing that fascinates us about people and that we look to read about in reading their biographies are the turning point in their lives that mark a shift in perspective or a new chapter. what turning points did you find in the life of letters and papers from prison? >> one of the most interesting

ones was the common touch. bonheoffer was from an aristocratic family. his father was a top doctor psychiatry at the time. a privileged sheltered life. a nonreligious life basically. his mother taught hymns, but he garage waited from -- graduated from berlin with a one year scholarship to america. we're talking 1931. he headed to union cemetery in new york, and his best friend was frank fisher, an african-american, the only one there, he took him to a baptist church. it was a real turning point. he really learned -- remember a berlin professor, their footnotes have footnotes. it was that world he lived in. [laughter] he's at this baptist church, fell in love, and came back in 1939, his friends wanted to protect him, smuggled him back

to new york. he didn't stay there more than three months and said i can't duck this. i have to be back if germany is going to survive, i have to be a participant in the suffering too. that carried through all the way. this vision of peace was interesting to me. he's up in barcelona and mexico. he was planning to go with ghandhi and the peace vision was big for him. the day hitler came to power, he was given a radio address. it was the only time he was on radio, and it was cut off in the middle. we who like romance say hitler's people turned it off. you could see in the years after

world war i and how germany is shipping up to giving total obedience to a furyk. some of the people in the lutheran churches played up to hiterer. they tried to make hitler's germany into a force. the vast majority were silent. he got committed very early and hung out with a whole underground of people. i think the other thing that i would say is the turning point is they knew today we call it the movement and in the 1930s it was being born. they wanted to form what became the world council of churches. it was postponed until after the war because of the war, but he was an early agent of it, and that's one of the things that served this cause. he got to conferences in switzerland and sweden, england,

the arch bishop who was over in'den was his -- eden was his contact person. it was the circle he was with and they were aristocratic military people who wanted the allies to drop the idea of unconditional surrender. they said if that happens, germany will surrender and we can rebuild and so on. it would have been a high risk for anybody, but again the exposure to people of the other churches around the world, catholic, almost none of that happening in the 30s, so i think that opened him to a larger vision. >> the book you cite there from the church to the world, partly grows out of this idea that came in one of his late letters that

you mentioned that he talks about the world that has come of age and that phrase and the implications of that then were seized by a variety of people in the years after the book was first published. i mean, can you talk a little bit about how the uses of the book by the various camps if you will of theologians and philosophers had an impact on post-war germany and then by extension on others. >> others,ing, including america and england. if you think of a book as a life, you have to think about it. if you're an abused child of that person and you know a secret about them and you can't treat them another way is they have a humility, you know it and are guided by it along the way. when you pick at the life of a

book, you do the same kind of thing as this man in germany did it, then it traveled to england. there was a book called "honest to god" by a british bishop. it traveled to america. many of you may not know one october day, "time" magazine had a cover called god is dead. easter came along and god is living again, but they had their moment. [laughter] bonheoffer was their hero. why, back to your question. the ideas he was per suing adds to the interest in the book. he has seep the terror of the religion taken over by the state in, he saw a lot of false piety, people pray, pray, pray, and

they are then antise metic. it really bothered him. he had a three-prong thing. first of all he saw secularization. germany with a long religion tradition was in the universities and all the books he read in prison dealt with that, and so he had the strong i influence on him and he studied much as he could. there was a book called -- it wasn't a book, a 50,000 word footnote. [laughter] you could count them calledded religion is unbelief because he believed that people religion keeps god from them. he didn't think it was a tragedy

that secularization was coming. he said embrace it and live with it. the world has come of age, it's adulthood. yes, if you look at western europe, you really believe it. if you look at modern university, you believe it. if you look at intertapement, you really believe it, and yet around the world, religion never had it so good. the religions are booming. in dietrich bonhoeffer's part of the world and ours, there's 3,000 fewer christians in 24 hours. in africa, there's 18,000 more every 24 hours. when you see how post china put religion down, they are all there. i think he was half right. i think of relgio-secular.

there's theories in one phrase, is this religious or secular, texas, baptist, millionaire. he didn't want his preacher to talk about the allowances and so on. the other -- but that led him to the whole new market if you will. he wasn't looking for a market. he was ready to die, but then he talked about religionless christianity. that confused people. he used religion to develop a piety so god couldn't get out you. he didn't stop woiching. he led worship to the prisoners even, but believed the -- then the question is well, what should he say about jesus christ and whose divinity he believed, but he said the church argues about what this means, and of

all the things in the new testament and a church that fits are religiousless christianity is jesus christ, the man for others. it's that we have to model it that. you can go deeper in your faith or carry it and say let's get rid of the stuff and throw it all out. >> if you were to identify the single biggest impact of this book on religious thought today, what would you say that it is? and then if you want to -- if any of you would like to ask dr. marty questions, i encourage you to line up at the microphone in the middle aisle while he's answering this question. >> the two main sets. he still as big as ever this year, there's two monstrous new biographies of him this year and

little ones. there's tens of thousands of things written about him. he's as prime as ever, but they sort of run on two tracks. the insiders, the people who studied him these years, people who knew him and were not worried about it, pick up on religionless christianity theme, jesus is the man for others, and others who were not well known in tennessee in 1931-39, now are the most prosperous of the religious elements of the culture. they were marginal hill billies, but in america he goes to a fundamentalist preacher in new york saying guy, he's preaching the bible. a lot of stuff he was using seminary, no offense to seminary, but he didn't believe in the verbal analysis of the

bible. he didn't believe in the literal second comings. he was not a literalist at all, and they were suspicious of him, but there's a lot of stuff that's going wrong, and they see his overall impact that they've take p over, and -- taken over, and i would say there's a lee git mat -- legitimate claim on it. one is radical, and the other is the letter themselves as a whole, the publisher gave a cover of it. himself from within, and he always identified with it, but you could never look out. little closet-sized cell and writing prayers that are much used and hymns now in hymn books of catholics as well as everybody else, and i think just

the fact that his spirit, you could use the wore soul survived the circumstances had a strong impact on people today. the one is the whole book and the other is the late theology, final letters. >> sir, you had a question? >> yes. thank you. when you say he was generally a pass is vies against it, he was trying to be part of the firing squad, and you notice how he had a cop flick with the lutherans about supporting government. well, jesus wiped out authority in mark 10:34. that's why he couldn't resist hitler notary public violencely. -- nonviolently. >> good question.

i'm glad i don't have to write a book about jesus. [laughter] i don't know any place one text makes a lot of. jesus' own texts are nonviolent throughout. there's all these things, and he's rarely been followed all the way dietrich bonhoeffer made an appeal to that. probably his greatest book is the cost of discipleship which is nothing but his interpretation of jesus and the sermon on the mount. there's a line in there where jesus says you follow me, it's your risk. when jesus christ calls a person, he calls him or her to die. he was that devoted to what's there, but he also enjoyed the life that jesus also enjoyed. >> he could have died either way. >> but that -- >> he could have died either

way, nonviolently. >> yeah, it took him a year and a half to get to him, but yes, he knew his doom. if you're trying to shoot the head man, you're doomed. they had all the power, and they got him, so there's nothing, no other alternative for him. he could only live by his witness. thank you. >> another question. sir, thank you. >> as one who is not even sure how to spell, dietrich bonhoeffer, know little about him. what led up to his imprisonment and final death. why was he in jail? >> okay. great question. by the way, when you should spell dietrich bonhoeffer. my name is marty, m-a-r-t-y. >> yeah, i heard of you. [laughter] >> you should hear the people in

taiwan pronounce it. why he was in prison -- first of all, he was a resister all along, and those people in the reform churches that resisted were marked. everyone knows only appear for him was martin, a very -- a u-boat captain of world war i and he says first it came for labor, an i didn't speak up, and then he came for the jews and i didn't speak up. finally, they came for me, and there was no one left. i think that he was with that movement from 1933 on, and so he's a marked man, every move, the more records we have, they knew every move he was making. well, they thought they knew

every move along the way. finally, he was caught -- some of you following news may know the name of a very major conductor who was a nephew of bonhoeffer. they had his number. one of his sisters were married to a jewish lawyer, and they had to leave for london otherwise he would have been killed. all these things raised a flag, and i think he would have been put in prison anyhow, but the death penalty waited until the attempt on hitler's life. when they got all the files, bonhoeffer was in what was like the cia. they smuggled papers there. when a different faction came over, and he was found out. >> yes, sir?

>> you mentioned that universities in europe became secular, but africa became religious. the more educated part of population became secular, but very uneducated, became very religious, and yesterday professor christopher lectured here and said people who do not believe in evolution should not use cell phone. [laughter] the point is this, if you don't believe in science, you should not use it. you can pray. [laughter] >> i believe in evolution, but i also use the cell phone. well, that's an extreme statement of the case, but there is something to it. in general it's been not only evolution, but many other features. i did editing of a six volume

study on fundamentalism around the world. what interested me was all across the board they were critical of moo derpty -- moo modernity. there's better radio, internet, television, and so on. you put the worlds together in very different ways. the generalization is true. a mar -- majority of people in higher learning do this. darwin said when i started out in science, i put my beliefs on paper in a drawer, and then years later i pull it out, and a lot of people in science do work at it and think fresh thoughts about religion, but your generalization is generally true, but i don't think the state is uneducated. again, if i took you to -- i taught at cape town the year before the change, and the

leaders of the christian resistance and a couple jewish physicians there to the government were the top scientists. they were at the hospital where christian was and i have seminars with people, in fact, six different religions. everyone is there, hindus all the way back to gandhi's time. communists, catholic protestants, black, colored, everything. we studied the different religious views of human rights, and they were highly educated people and highly intensely religious. i think it depends on what you devote yourself to, and if you're a busy scientist, that's what you devote yourself to. >> having read these three books

and partial list coming in the series, there's certainly an opinion in parts of the academy that there are still -- there's much to be learned from understanding how the great religious texts of many faiths bear on the world today, and partly what we see around the world too is people acquire literal sigh and the urgency to ask questions in new ways, and we see that too in many institutions that are rejected for the first time because somebody gets the ability to ask questions. it's an interesting phenomena that makes books like this no less important. sir, you have a question. >> yes, i would pretend i'm with audiences who work at a think

tank and not unemployed. i hope i'm not the only one here that's not unemployed. the other fellow mentioned christopher hill, co-author of the book that talked about physics. he thinks global warming is a problem. i mentioned my interest in equipment that i got from my late father, as well as classical music, i wish i could mention that's not one reasons i don't have a girlfriend. there's a cd player and amp fieres and christopher said he wanted a stienway piano himself. there's difference between long term and short term trends. if people were different than they were yesterday, it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be more religious. not being a scholar or genius and trying to come up something worth your hearing, how long will people believe in bible or verbal tradition about faith

when there's not the miracles that occurred in the bible that prove virtually god exists like the parting of the red sea, and even a silent film and the roy specific effects department did a good job. i saw that part. they used gelatin and they burned the path and like john fullton did in the later movie, they reversed the film. i like specific effects. >> [inaudible] >> how long will people believe -- >> i got the heart of your question, and i'll give a quick illustration, in 1960 the book came out "near the year 2000." wonderful book, early use of computers just coming in, and he -- they, hudson institute put it together, and the book starts with long term multifold trends,

and moping them, the first 18 were about secularization and religion. the future of the world will be that everything will be determined empirically. there were about 10 adjectives. the empirical concrete pragmatic, a whole list of things. then he says because they were not dumb people, we're looking long term from the short term, and if you look at the long term, almost every major philosopher of history of the 20th century, and he listed a lot of them, almost all of them envision a future in which the human story is too loaded up to be carried along just pragmatically and con track chewablely. there's many forms, old

religions, new religions of nationalism and so on. we're seeing plenty of that. if you think long term whole world, that's going on. everything we know so far about ourselves and people as a whole is there's so much we don't know, so much mystery, so much ample that another breakthrough in science means another breakthrough in arts and religion too. >> one brief follow-up, there's a book -- >> i think we're -- >> religion without revolution, religion without revolution. >> that's one of the ones i quoted. >> yeah. we've come to the end of our time. i thank you for your attention. one idea that is quoted is the idea from another author on the subject. as expressed the ideas are not disturbing, but dangerous.

we saw some of that in our discussion today, and the impact of dangerous ideas on culture and society has always been an important one. i tharng dr. marty for writing this biography to remind us of those ideas in the work of dietrich bonhoeffer. thank you for coming today. you'll be able to meet dr. marty and he'll autograph books for you dop -- down the hall. >> thank you. >> host: in the shadow of du bois, published by university press, author the robert gooding-williams. professor gooding-williams, why "in the shadow of du bois?"

>> guest: it's been so influ enissue on african-american thought and generally speaking discourse about public policy, about black identity relating to a contemporary racial politics. >> host: what was the importance of du bois? >> guest: what the book focuses on is the best known book, the most influential book, but in many ways not well understood book, so part of the goal of the book is on one hand to reconstruct the critical thought. du bois was treated well by biographyers, but not by political philosophers. my idea was to treat du bois as

a political philosopher bearing in mind when you think about du bois in that perspective, he's a contributor to african-american political thought. again, i come back to the influence idea, the idea that more than any other 20th century african-american thinker, du bois is the thought -- du bois's thought -- you asked about the shadow, cast a shadow over the thinking of other african-american theorists, but more generally beyond the -- beyond just the world of african-american thought, just a shadow over nip and everyone whose thought about african-american identity, black identity, political policy and part of the idea is going back to du bois and engaging du bois

as political thought, we have our own thinking about many of these issues. >> host: in the last 110 years or so, what practical effect has du bois had? what is his lineage? >> guest: of course du bois is one of the great inspirations of the civil rights movement, and i think it's well-known du bois's death was announced in 63, and i use that during the march in washington, i use that roominger wilkenson's i think, the announcement of du bois's death as an introduction to the book. he says there if there's one thinker whose thought overshadows both -- the movement what's happening here today is du bois and du bois's thought so

there's a real connection between not only what's going on at the level of contemporary writers, theorists thinking about these issues, issues again having to do with identity, poverty, in the gaff math of jim jim crow, but also the enormous impact on activists. >> host: what was his relationship, professor, with booker t. washington? >> guest: that's an important theme in the book and something talked about at great length in the literature. also important motif when one thinks about that, the history of both, again, agent vism and -- act activism and african-american thought. washington, of course, was the most prominent, most influential african-american political force at the time du bois is writing

which is why du bois thought he needed to take washington on and subject washington's thought to critique so i mean, to summarize, i mean, washington thought that african-american social thought progress really required that african-americans develop the virtues appropriate to succeed in the market place and put aside the struggle for political rights. du bois responds by saying you can't put aside the struggle for civil rights, and in essence du bois is arguing against washington that there will be no success on capital place if african-americans don't win civil and political rights. you can't separate the two agendas. there's a deeper issue often ignored, the issue relate to the struggle over leadership. what group of leads is going to

emerge as the leaders of the struggle for african-americans in equality? the interesting way to frame the third chapter is that he positions both himself and douglass with reference -- book himself -- sorry, himself and washington in reference to frederick douglass. they are pitching the conflict with him and washington in the narrative. he's saying well, the moses of the african-american struggle, frederick douglass, and the question is who will be the new leader. washington emerged as the new joshua; right? refers to washington as a joshua born man of god, but he's not

the mill at that particular -- militant and du bois is appointing himself as the more appropriate joshua than he sees in washington. >> host: that said, professor, what was du bois's relationship with the larger white community around him? >> guest: he was very much involved as a founding member of the aect. talk about the largest white community in a number of ways. one can talk about du bois, again respect to the naacp, with respect to african-american activism. the point that i try to stress is what du bois was about intellectually and try to open up the space for thinking not only about du bois's engagement

with an appropriations of contemporary american thinkers, but to think, too, about, for example, his time in germany so, for example, he is not only interesting because he was the student of josiah, but the student of gustav and because he was involved with the relationship between the human science and natural science and whether we should think about race in respect of the natural science and human science. for example, du bois has a famous discussion of involving an important and interesting complicated illusion, one of the favorite poems leaning more towards -- we think of du bois more in the larger -- talking about not only his relationship

to white activists who were involved with du bois in founding the naacp, but also talking about the intellectual hoer rye stop, not only american intellectual hoer horizons, but also talking about the wide range of reading engagements and very, very importantly really i think profoundly neglected his engamingment with the -- engagement. >> knowing what you know about du bois, would he be surprised that in 2008 a black president was elected in the u.s.? >> guest: that's interesting. probably as much as nip, yeah. i think i was surprised. i think lots of people were surprised when obama was elected. president i think that part of the reason that du bois left the united states for ghana was with

his pessimism of relations in the united states. given that pessimism i think if you asked du bois in the first decade of our century would we have an african-american president, and i mean, remember du bois thought even before 1964 civil rights act was passed, the housing act, he hadn't seen the end of jim crow. for him to imagine the possibility of -- for him to imagine the possibility of an african-american president, i think, is almost unimaginable. >> host: robert gooding-williams, what do you teach here at the university of chicago? >> guest: political theory in the political science department, a variety of courses, some having to do with as you might guess, african-american political thought of course on du bois, martin delaney, teach critical race theory, i teach philosophy,

and i'm teaching a course now -- seminars, critique of modernity, contemporary social thought. i just did team teaching on african-american jewish political thought. next year i'm teaching another course on martin and the influence on art, and a whole range of courses. most having to do with either history, political thought, 19th century political thought or doing with critical race theory, african-american political thought. >> host: you're the author of "look the negro". what's that? >> guest: a group of essays relating to race and film, and two other occasional essays as well, so, for example, i have an essay there on representation of race in a movie, you know, "the

lion king" that many of us saw a long time ago. i have an essay on med ya representations of race during the king uprising in a book i edited and also interesting piece engaging another philosopher around the reading of the british stair movie. unlike the du bois book, it's less an engagement to reconstruct the thought of a particular thinker. again, it has more to do with race and contemporary culture, representations of race. >> who in your view, if any, is similar to du bois today? >> guest: you know, i think that there probably is no one who is really similar to du bois today. i think that the -- i think --

what i would say -- i guess what i wouldn't want to say is you asking the question that way suggests that we're looking for one person that might represent the current tendency of african-american political thought, but i don't think there is one person. i'm not sure there's just one person in du bois's writing. he was engaged with booker t. washington and a number of other thinkers. it's interesting. you find a great deal of diversity and opinion among african-american intellectuals about pretty much everything going on, not least of all how to think about the obama presidency so i think what we've got is -- i think it's a mistake to think either historically or currently of african-american political thought as

homogenius. i think it's good for political life and public culture. >> host: what's your next book? >> -- >> guest: you know, i'm not completely sure. i'm doing work on martin delaney, often thought of a as the father for black nationalism, and i've begun ding research on delaney, wrote a short paper on delaney that may evolve into a monograph. >> host: your current book, "in the shadow of du bois" pushedly the university of harvard and you teach at the university of chicago. >> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants know. >> i have a list of books, some unfinished, others new. one i'm working on is "monsoon"

a book about the whole issue of central asia where i think most of the politics of the next 25 years will occur, and i read chapters of it when i traveled to various parts like indonesia, but i want to read the whole book. i haven't finished it. i started in february. another book was given to me by a fellow in my office from the american academy of mechanical engineers who worked with me on the whole question of water, and i said to him, tell me what the problems with water are going to be over the next 20 or 30 years, and this book he's gave me and he said, i want you to read it. i never was able to write a perfect report, but it's a good book to read about the question of water. it's an issue that in congress rereally do need to think about in the future. george freedman wrote a book called "the next hundred years" a fascinating book looking out

the next 100 years, who the major allies will be, the countries we're involved with, will have trouble with, and so when he came out with this next book called "the next decade" i said that involves my life, maybe i should get that one red read and see what happens at least in the perspective of people who look at trends. one of the faze nateing thing is saying the countries we're involved with will be turkey and poland. i thought, wow, i never thought about that. i thought about turkey, but never thought about poland. he said there's going to be a war in the next 100 years with mexico. there's a lot of fascinating things in the book. i decided i'm going to read this second book which is really a little more down to earth. the other thing is as

congressman, everybody who writes a book sends one to the office and says you ought to read this book, and so we get all kinds of books, many of which i put into a drawer and send to my office in seattle, but i also get people who recommend books to me and say you should read this book. friends. and so forth, and one of the books was sent to me by my long time secretary, nancy james, and it's about china, the man who loved china. this is a ymca director who went to china in the late 1800s and chronicled, thee most definitive chronicling of china's contribution to science in the world. you ought to read this if you want to understand the boom is coming from in china. it's not like yesterday they discovered science. they've been there for 6,000