>> well, they're needs to be a different system of oversight in clinical trials. it's crazy to have the main oversight bodies being paid by the studies that they are supposed to be regulating. that is just a recipe for the kind of problems that we see. i would say that we need to take drug testing out of the hands of the producers of the drug. why should the pharmaceutical industry be responsible for testing of their own in drugs and then publishing the research? they have a financial incentive to come up with results that are positive for their product. and as long as the testing process is in their hands,, you know, that incentive is always going to be there. so i would be in favor of taking drug testing out of their hands and putting it into the hands of an independent drug-testing

body. >> thank you. >> ..

at. >> host: i really enjoyed reading your book and i want to get right to the main question so many authors are asked why you decided to write this book and what is the genesis? >> guest: of the story of brock obama's sr. seem to be the untold story of the obamacare and it is the i was a reporter at the globe for many years and have done many political profiles provide did write a profile of october -- obama's sr. in 2008 i spoke to people in kenya by did not go there. i did not have that piece of the story. we decided this was a compelling story. little known about him obama, jr. only go so far it talks about his experience. so this was a book that needed to be written. >> host: in that process of working on the book you said you went to kenya and

describe that in the book itself. tell us what that was like. did you have access or was there suspicion of the outsider or racial dimension of a white reporter? >> host: make 91 of those were true i went five times. wonderful people helped me a lot that new obama's senior very well. many family members. some people were eager to talk because this was such a high profile presidency people wanted to tell a positive story. obama's sr. is a complex character a very passionate person also a very self-destructive person and because of that people were in a family who did not want the story told a only a certain kind. i was a white woman that its raised concerns in this was their story and i ran into that as well. >> host: in the end you

were happy with the people that you talk to an access you were given? >> absolutely. i found friends and people in the family that walked me through the village and i really felt i talked to many people who knew him. also fortunate to find documents that revealed whole other aspect of his life that nobody knew about. >> let's start from the beginning. give me a thumbnail sketch of barack obama senior. what was he like? what did he look like how did he get to the united states? >> he was born near lake victoria in december of the third largest ethnic group and a very precocious boy and his father who was very controlling with high expectations for him used to

drill him wanted him to be more successful than he had been. he did attend local schools and excelled and known as the brightest boy in the class and began to become a little more cocky in wouldn't take exams and drift off in the middle of the day but because he was so smart he was fifth accepted into a very prestigious school created for the sons of the achieves that meant he would be made in be very successful with a good career. that didn't happen. he got into trouble. a series of small offenses. he liked to argue not that he believed his point* of view but he wanted to cross. how to take the cattle out and obama would say don't do that. you must go to the other field. of he would argue with his

professors which you were not supposed to do. he would lay on the grass which was a cardinal sin it was very trim in green lawn and go around it and handed dried the dishes you laid them in the sun and finally a letter shows up at the principal's office complaining of all sorts of things and the food is bad and if it is hard with the principal points to an two together many think obama roach it. whether he did not by the principal decided he had enough of barack obama and not allow him to continue fifth and not recommend him for high-school. this was a critical blow meaning he would not have a high school degree not to the chamber entrance exam which is what he needed to go on to the next up. >> host: how did he get to

this point* to be so interested in excelling? was this in the family? was the it to achieve a recognized and encouraged? >> his father excelled in many ways on his own in was also very smart. when the white man came at the end of the 19th century i'm sorry, duke energy he was freed curious and travel to nairobi and worked with the white man and learn their ways and took it upon himself to improve himself and could drill his math. no dinner he did not do well. or be sent to your room. obama's sr. were the first boy and they were very cherished in a one point* his father had two daughters would not only talk to the girls and say you'll get

married in go way i only talk to him. in part the seed was planted but part of it was obama and himself. one thing he has in common with his son not only intelligent but ambitious. >> host: that is the other theme people want to learn about aho how much of the sun to receive in the father or vice versa in the contrast and comparison maybe we should look into the. in d.c. president obama is his son? >> absolutely although they share very little time together the first year of his life but very keen intelligence. both of them were very ambitious and found a way to envision a life far beyond prescribed circumstances of their birth. they were also both very

involved in in the politics of their day although sr. was too self-absorbed to run for office but the moment he was latifah the transfer of kenya from the british what is huge and defined him and his ambitions. both of them had been absent parent which was quite profound certainly ford, jr. the president who has written about his father with struggles with identity that was very important to him but obama's sr. was abandoned by his mother when he was nine and she fled from the father who was quite abusive. hussain was very cruel to his multiple wives of which she had a number and one day

he threatened to kill his wife and mother of obama's senior and takes out a huge sword and does occur grave behind her home and starts to slit her throat and a neighbor comes by to see you cannot do this. told by their daughters. she is so of fried in tired of being abused she decides to leave so one night she comes to obama and says i am leaving and going home but come and find me if you can. a few days later she leaves. there were three children. of the two older was decided to follow their mother. one night they leave. this is kenya, wild, animals, they walk from the north side down to the south and they travel for two weeks, only at night because they don't want to be picked up and at the time when the animals are out so it is a miracle they make it but they do. when they get

their, somebody alerts hussain and he comes in is heartbroken and cries for the first time in drags them back and they do not see their mother and he never saw her although he later i think her leaving left him insecure in a very fundamental way and affected his relationships with women and children and not able to trust or be able to be intimates. >> host: talking about family circumstances obama's sr. left the family wind of vonage, jr. was one year old. >> not even. >> host: they only saw each other once after that? how did that meeting go but also talk about the marriage of barack obama senior and

why he left the family and what happened in hawaii. >> she met her in the russian class she was very taken with him and he with her. she would write back to her friends 58 yen in the of with an african and i think they were very struck with one another. she is pregnant within a few months and they get married february 1961 and together a very short time. i could get some immigration documents although it is believed they were together for a year there were not even living together but only fibers six months she is still living with her parents while she is pregnant prepare she has the baby in august and he starts to look around where he will go to school next. he has completed in three years by beta kappa in hawaii and applying to all

of the schools. very smart in an african when many people wanted the smart ones and applies to many schools. he gets a full scholarship from the new school in manhattan partial scholarship from harvard he goes for that because it is the best and obama's sr. is the best and i think he if he went to yorkie could have taken her but he chose not to. >> host: in that circumstance why did he stay away from the family if he wanted to take his wife and his child but couldn't but he never saw them for a long time after that. >> guest: i don't know he did want to take them. a baby sitter who took care obama's said and told her that obama's sr. told her if you go back with me to

nairobi you have to realize i will have to marry another kenyan woman to have full black african children. this is not true. he did not have to. but he told her there mixed-race baby will look negative unkindly. that may or may not be true. he put up things to dissuade her also never told him about his family in kenya with two children and a wife and said he was divorced. i don't believe he was divorced thought that he was. but i think he did have some ambivalence. i don't think he thought he would be bringing the boy or his wife. >> host: at the time obama, jr. was born there was question about adoption? you talk about this as one of the news elements. >> guest: as a foreign student every year obama's sr. had to get the extension

of his day. immigration authorities will look at how you do in school and your domestic life to make sure it is all okay. obama's sr. sometimes he would say he had a wife in kenya sometimes not and becoming an issue of concern. immigration starts to look at his situation because foreign student riser of hawaii is worried he is womanizing and dating and says you have to stop dating so many women. he says i will try. then they realize he has married and done in now they thinks he is married in kenya and now he is married in how widely it is all reflected in the documents. as obama's comes up to argue for his extension, they realize his wife is pregnant and he says to them. to worry about that. my wife is making

arrangements at the salvation army to have that baby put up for adoption. that baby is the president of united states. did she do that? it is not clear. she had many reasons. she was 18 in mixed-race marriages were illegal even and hawaii that was unusual. what will life be like for her baby? maybe she did. the salvation army will not address this but more than likely he made it up. if immigration officials were looking at him of bigamist with the mixed-race baby that may not go down well to get the extension and ask him to leave and that would be disastrous. so my belief is he probably made it up. >> host: take us to what happens within the obama family. the father leaves to go to harvard.

ann and obama's stay behind. what happens to mother and child in the next few years? >> guest: ann returns to hawaii lives with her parents and takes care of her baby and obama's sr. goes to harvard exciting and challenging going into the economics department to get the ph.d.. a very challenging period when the field was vastly changing from the old school narrative empirical model to something run by computers and data and very challenging as smart as he was many people did not make it. but he did up to 0.10 worked extremely hard and had others help him with the math. had 1964 open and had passed all of his exams unbelievably moral and written and started on his dissertation but he ran into difficulties.

once again the question of his womanizing rose its head and immigration officials were keeping an eye on him and it happened he was dating a kenyan woman who was having difficulties and also a student. she went to london without authorization and her sponsors were concerned and obama was trying to give her situation right and lobbying for cursing barack obama is viewed as a slippery character. they don't know why he works so hard for this woman. then they begin to wonder about his annual certificate and they go to harvard and say what you know, about him and a harvard stores to look at the record and they become concerned about how many wives he has and thinks he is married to the kenyan wife, the hawaii wife and at the time this happens in the

spring of 64, harvard has already signed off on obama coming back saying he will be a student the next year. he was okay but the more they look into with the more concerned they get and he dates a cambridge woman now maybe he is married to her. this was not okay and he also had financial problems but he had supporters. within three weeks of the call harvard has decided obama hess to leave according to the intelsat records, the head of the international office with chairman of economics department have decided they will come up with something to get rid of him to slip him out and begin to develop the case and pretend it is about financials and sent him a letter and say you have to go back to nairobi. it was a disaster.

in kenya at the time only 500 people have graduate degrees from england or the united states and this group would be defined kenya to create the new nation they were so thrilled to have back in their hands. not only with a degree but the harvard degree would have been incredible and would be a cornerstone taken away. he did get a master's degree and struggled tuesday and called emigration and said why are you doing this why would you not extend my stay? they don't tell him and say it is because of harvard. we don't have the money. he went home. i feel he never recovered from that. he calls himself dr. for the rest of his life. tenure was a small community and some people realized he did not have his ph.d. but they humoured him.

he calls himself dr. obama constantly as he got older but the disappointment was a huge. >> host: he goes back to kenya and at that point* does he have any contact with ann or younger barack obama at the time? >> guest: according to the president's memoir there are some letters between the two although they divorced the spring of 64 there was letter-writing becomes we do know he comes to honolulu in 1971. >> host: i want to come back to that visit but how many wives did he have? >> guest: he had four wives. how many had been a onetime tennis. >> host: but that was a tradition in his culture 211 the irony is in forcing him to leave, harvard it was

normal for them to be multiple wives and would be odd if you didn't but the difference was you live on your compound and you live together as a unit. he was a serial polygamist and how many he had at one time is complicated because it is unclear if he ever divorced his first wife who it is still alive maintains there still married to this day and never divorced and married in the tribal marriage. too undue that you have to go through a process that is the return of the cows the couple appears before village elders and listen to the reasons and they way and if it sugar should not be. that did not happen according to his wife meaning they would continue

to be married. on the other hand, after he died all of these wives and eight children there is a lawsuit filed to figure how many children were there and the rightful heir and of course, he ruled on the legitimacy of the first marriage and he found she was not married to him and they were separated and divorced and subsequent marriages were legitimate. >> host: even though in the american context polygamy is not something we accept, in the context of their culture, did he do anything wrong to be married repeatedly? there is the interpretation and the state's not only a womanizer but have these marriages he kept secret from the other wives. >> guest: not anything wrong and then numbers but how he treated some of them i think some would take issue.

partly because he left his wife and did not take good care of any of his children which is not part of the culture but was also mistreated in abusive to one of his wives. he was a chronic drinker his name -- nickname was double double he would have johnny walker double shot so now you have four sometimes he would have 16. he was legendary 57 it is interesting covering the white house which is my day job, i have covered five presidents. ronald reagan had a father who was a drinker and had difficulty holding jobs. bill clinton of course, his stepfather was an alcoholic and had confrontations. and now with the obama family.

and i wonder did obama rovell against this somehow? he didn't know his father but as he got older he took an interest in what his father was like and must have known this. how did you react? >> guest: i think the obama, jr. to find himself in part in the shadow of his father in a reaction who he was sander relationship he was not. you read as a bombing as a young man is searching for identity. what does it mean to be an american, a black man, black man in america, all of that and has been told his father was a great figure but he finds out he wasn't. she was admirable in some ways but conflicted and broken person and i felt he never went beyond that. i think he defines himself

in reaction to this chaotic figure and obama, jr. decided to be a very ruutu person and committed% in of steady person. >> host: although sell many criticize the policies they are considered a paragon two michelle and his wife and the gross sasha and malia a much different pattern than his father and you think that is a specific conscious reaction? >> guest: i have not talked to him about that but in reading dreams, you feel a person is searching for identity looking for models. what sort of a person am i? then he starts to focus and makes decisions community organizer, political, the absence of the father is

quite defining and you fill in that space. obama's sr. went the other way but also defined by the absence of the mother and never felt secure. it is very primal but because he did not have that he always felt uncertain and made himself much bigger which she did not need to do. he was a brilliant economist. he lied about all of that but it goes back to the absence of the core of section. >> gabbana in a recent interview which i took notes on talked about as he grew up he missed his father's presence in the home and he wondered what life would have been like if obama sr. had been in the home? what are your thoughts? how would it have been different? he was a drinker, abusive.

>> guest: he would have been a very unhappy boy and not in the white house today. we do have some record of what it is like to be a son of in which is not pretty. he had eight children and two of them he may not have fathered. one died in a motorcycle accident. after obama became president four of them have written memoirs. one of them lives in china now and wrote a memoir semi autobiographical and describes what it was like to be waiting for his father to come home after work and they were all nervous because would tb drug, angry has a day goes on they get more anxious then suddenly obama's sr. is back and nine out of 10 times he is drunk and angry and banks on the door. nobody stays up and makes me my dinner. we have witnesses.

neighbors, the wife, excederin. sometimes he would come in and drink more and beat his wife. mark talks about listening to her screaming in the other room and it is heartbreaking and wounded him and took him years to even and claim that obama name not until it became president but somehow in made it acceptable to claim that name. the daughter who lives in nairobi roads and in more and describes being the daughter and how hard it was to get him to pay attention or look at your think about you and tells a story of how she goes to a private school in nairobi which she likes and periodically when the bills were due to a handful of girls would be cold to say your bills are not paid you have to go home. so she walks back, goes to

obama's senior in a flurry says no problem but he gets a check but she knows it is no good and the humiliation wears on her than she goes back home i think in the end the administrator took pity but it was a series of humiliations and neglect. >> host: we will take a break and come back and talk about this and the obama story the father reconnecting with his son and 1971. we will be back in a moment.

>> as i said before the break the moment when obama's sr. comes back and rican necks with his son in 1971, how did that come about? that was the only time president obama met his father. was that true? how did that come about in how did that meeting go? >> the details are not entirely clear except he did come back as his own life was collapsing. unemployed, lost three promising jobs in the third marriage had fallen apart and he was not in a great place and comes back to visit the family. he comes around christmas and obama, jr. is very excited and watches his father and watches his

movements and how people pay attention and for a while it goes well but soon obama's sr. habit of telling him what to do, quarreling do, quarreling, began to wear on everybody. by the end of the visit they get into a fight and obama's senior waits for a television program and says you need to stop watching television and go do your homework and he was very much waiting to this show in the adults began to argue in, jr. is wishing his father with the youth and he does. that is the last time he sees him and write letters later but that stops. >> host: did that meeting was that pivotal seeing this man did a look back on a later to draw some

conclusions? >> i don't feel that this it was pivotal but the image continues to be "the shining" hero his mother betrayed and did that for good reasons but as a junior begins to look into his father was finds the painful truth which is pivotal. >> host: a one to back up. all of the controversy of the birth of a jet. did you find any doubt at all he was born in hawaii? nine no you talk about naming the hospital and the date and a controversy in the political context of whether he was born here but there was some confusing stories of his relatives saying he was born there.

>> of there are records of his birth in honolulu and august. no question in my mind and never was. that was never an issue. >> host: looking at the father's political views and political history, and newt gingrich two was the speaker of the house now running for president has talked about you can understand president obama unless you understand come as a direct reference to the kenyan anti-colonial attitudes and behavior. how active was the father in that anti-colonial movement? is it fair to connect the father in the son with that history? >> i think anti-colonial is

antiquated and inaccurate phrase. the canyons or not acting in the anti-colonial way but pro can in anti-colonial louis flee years earlier but by a the 1960's fifth it was about canyons and the british agreed to transfer the government back and it was a very exciting time the british still stayed but obama's sr. in fact, was lessing gauged in political activity than many. he was involved a little but he worked on his paper but he was inouye out there ranting were criticizing the british and was sorry about himself. he left before independence and so he was not even there. i feel that is the inaccurate characterization.

>> host: when obama's sr. goes back to kenya why do things fall apart? is a the argumentative ms. and overconfidence? what happens? >> line is the new how important it was do get the degree. he did get the masters but not the phd but kept himself together. he had a lot of women and drinks that when he comes back middle of 64, independence is only one year old and this is an exciting time and africanas are put in these exciting jobs they can go into hotels and restaurants now they can order a couple shots of whiskey. all things are possible. an exciting time months and he was smart and have a great job and a white wife

and everything and he should have been the big man and gone on to be successful but partly he drinks too much and did not have a ph.d. which was a large wound and also self-destructive. he argued, criticized the and complained about the british. where were you when i was getting by harvard degree? canyon and a british alike and it did not go well for him. he lost his first job. he is let go. he goes on to a hugely promising job in the research department at the central bank of 10 in could have been the opportunity of a lifetime but let go because he drinks on the job and is late to work and criticizes other people all the time. one more chance with a high ranking job as a senior development officer at the

tourist development corporation. sounds like mid-level bureaucracy but it was a big job and he last four years he doesn't just drink on-the-job but two months arrested for drunk driving and starts to live in as he travels developing tourism he claims the title above him as saying he is the general manager. the general manager did not like that. >> host: it is interesting you talk about these personal habits and a series of personal behavior's and womanizing. looking at the sun, what a contrast. obama is a very disciplined man the way he does things he has a law professor attitude about arguing the

case to see all sides but he is not a confrontational person is in is this another reaction against his dad to be the opposite? >> guest: those trying to think of words to you describe the differences between them. president is a cool and focused figure and his father was hot every sense of the word. i don't know how much he knew about that. my impression of his knowledge comes from family members. i don't know how much he knew what happened to him on his jobs, arguing, crossing, to some extent i think that is who he is. >> host: tell us what about the final car accident where obama's sr. dies. what happened? was that a direct result of his drinking? >> guest: there are mixed opinions. certainly he was drinking

that night. at a favorite spot there with his friends. many hours. usually because he was so drunk he had a driver who took him home. people offered and he said no. he leaves and drives into a eucalyptus tree and instead is delayed. because obama's sr. life was a fractured work friends, domestic life, everybody had a different feeling. people swear it and was rigged and he was murdered with and talk about of the windshield is broken and he is frozen in time. the press say he was racked. no hint of suspicion. friends to he committed suicide. he had a head job again which she got in 76 in just

had another baby. i think he was ready to try to be the parent he had never been. not a great career but a good enough. i don't think it was suicide. >> host: trying to be the parent he was not, would he have tried to get closer to his son in america? >> guest: i have no indication of that. >> host: he was back in kenya and. >> guest: that was his greatest love and where he would be. he had a new baby and saw that life ahead of him. >> host: having done this research staff what should americans no obama's data and what stays with you the most particularly what might inform us about obama himself? >> i think the father's

story makes the sun story more extraordinary. as first african-american president, obama, jr. cared a singular path. the story is interesting and created himself. he didn't just have been absent father but a very destructive father who was not a good parent. he says he thought about putting his son up for adoption. when i learned that i thought what it must be like for him to learn that and had not heard this before. i feel it makes the story more astonishing he had survived this an inherited his strengths but it has been an interesting tale. >> host: talking about the contrast between obama and his father, a discipline and commitment to family and the success obama's has had the

similarities in the mind those of them had the ambition with the limitations of their childhood and they both decided they would go make something of themselves 4/5. and the involvement of the current of their time of men and were involved to have a stake in societe. obama's sr. difficulties was a tendency to speak out against the government when they decided what they would be an drifting to the right and obama's sr. spoke up and wrote an article about that objecting to the drift and wanted more for the little

man to share not so much for an investment and they were going with foreign investment and amassing financial control in the hands of the few. like his son obama's sr. was speaking out for a more just society and paid heavily for that his head. >> turning to the adm of religion was obama's senior a muslim? there is this chapter in american politics ever since barack obama has been on the political scene that he is a muslim and what is a history of the family as far as religion goes? >> guest: hussain was a muslim and all children were raised as such but obama's sr. was not religious in the slightest 21 to the christian schools he was made to leave their religion at the door you had to be a christian to go to schools. his father was not happy and

obama's said nobody in my school was a muslim and he never went to church or synagogue or temple call -- temple and was not a religious man 57 was that said dad's idea to name him after himself? >> guest: i have no idea but he already had a son who did not it is not clear why he waited #2. >> host: what was the relationship with stanley ann? >> how they got to know each other a quick court ship? and how was the marriage? he left the family but was the abusive to her? >> guest: no evidence. how he was in the united states he was minding his appeasing queues and aware of american culture and new enough to say he was divorced and never mentioned children. i think she was very much in

love with them and had a taste for the other or something different. and i think he genuinely loved her. in the end it was all about obama taking her to a point*. the governor of hawaii knew him than and understood him best and said about women and obama sr. there were always in their life he was never in paris. he was always waiting to go back to kenya. he did care enough about her to marry her but he also told her i have to marry a candid woman back there and have these cold-blooded children. i think in his way he was discouraging hurt and abercrombie observed she had her on ambitions she did not want to go to kenya because she knew she would be in second place she had her own

career. they come together for a few months and then began to part and have some rough third favor not even living together when he was born. >> host: then she was 18. went to the grandparents come into the picture? >> guest: they were part of the picture from a number one. i think they were somewhat anxious but they took this in stride when she came back married in were 100% president. i interviewed family members about her putting the baby up for adoption and she was deeply committed as were her parents and they were a team. >> host: a lot has been made of the white grandmother and grandfather from kansas but they moved around. >> guest: texas, seattle

texas, seattle, he was certainly a man on the move. but in honolulu they found their place with a diverse culture. >> host: to the grandparents except in obama's scene year immediately? as i recall i think they have no problem with teeeighteen but then were troubled by the idea of the marriage? >> guest: both sets of grandparents were that we learn from dreams. and make victoria hussain writes an angry letter to say don't you marry that white woman i think they're ready settle down and accepted the situation. >> host: the parents were very doting. >> guest: i know less side of that experience but from what i read she was in jakarta for many years. >> host: exactly. looking at the whole pattern and trajectory of obama's

senior life, he came to the states to be educated but you don't see he ever intended to stay but intent on going back? >> guest: he was trying to hasten his career writing look out, a wife i am getting ready to come back am preparing myself for crop everything had to do with kenya. >> host: did he have any political ambitions but to be a government officials? >> guest: he was an intellect to shape the culture and economy i don't think he had political ambitions but he was close to a number of political figures. the current president, an economist, and i described in the book one of the critical events of his life pass to do glenn of the way it is assassinated. he is a popular, a prominent politician and it seemed he

may be in line to be the next president. the day he was assassinated right before he is killed he talks to obama's senior on history and joe braff how badly his tom is party goes into the drugstore and when he comes out he is killed. it is important because it was a pivotal event and polarizes politics and obama's senior who could never keep his mouth shut testified in the trial. but the mere fact that he did was significant it was an affront and later say he was marked by that that he was identified in an attempt on his life and i think he really believe that in prone to making things up but lived in fear he was marked by that. >> host: how much was he

seen as a leader will halt politics system? considered a rising man? and then that faded. >> he was never a leader. he was smart and very good at what he did. people wanted him and saw his potential but not a political leader. one legislator for many years describes how when he himself was beginning to campaign he would take obama with him. he was not employed three he was smart in peter like to have him around. when did they go to a rally of teachers and union members and he is talking about pensions and obama after 15 minutes stands up and says come on. if they haven't gotten it by now they will never get it. i don't think he was much of

a political candidate. [laughter] >> host: does not sound like it. what is the other insight into obama's senior? whether the other moments that struck you to be particularly important to know about him? canyon or the u.s.? and going back to this thread we've tried to weave what it would say about president obama today? >> guest: i think we have touched on the highlights with his mother's leaving, rejection from harvard. toward the end he had no or to some extent. unemployed and lost for many years the alcoholic years between 71 through 76. he is then of bar asks the president who he is friendly with why don't you buy me a drink? he says why you appear and i

am twice the economists? why don't i have the money? and he likes him and knows about his past, arguing and says show up at my office tomorrow i would give you a job. he does go to the office is low-level but he had come to a place of some piece. kumbaya then he had found some of his sons are ready and lost a little of the fire and he was in his forties for the 1976. some of the huge promise of kenya as early years has become more complex the economy isn't a good shape but very up and down. >> host: what was he like what did he look like or his physical figure? if you look at him would use

the president obama? you have a picture of him on the cover of the book. they look a lot different to me. >> guest: they do. obama sr. in the brighter days was a very handsome and sexy in attractive guy dressed in your pants suits man he you had the money he went to a special shop and had beautiful shoes and a very attractive. >> host: a very resonant voice. >> guest: deep baritone and known for that. there are two pictures when it is when obama is there and he has the and man's exuberance laughing and very handsome. photos are taken 1971 he is a different creature who was solemn and sitting by himself and neatly dressed

but he looks tired and he looks old and aged very quickly so they have a different appearance. >> host: you have the notion of the charisma of. did you see a lot of that in the father? >> guest: absolutely. i wish i could have met him. >> host: did you come to like him? >> guest: have to spend years researching you'd like to meet them in the plush but he does sound like a fun and exciting% to be around i would like to me and the not be married to him. >> host: but the charisma how it is that manifest itself? he was not a public figure. >> he was not the many word drawn to him. columnist, politicians and they like him.

he lied about things and said he was dr. obama and he said he was stopped buy the famous economist at harvard and he was them. i said do you know, these things? of course, but he was a smart man. he did his job. but there was a community of people that are deeply fond of him despite all of his difficulties and they like the man. >> host: that was through his whole life? was the a drinking inhibiting him? could he controlled that? >> guest: no. he did not control it. a period of years he was a lost soul a few friends took care of and he drifted from one couch to the next day and his daughter writes

about saying he lived in a hotel room by himself but those of the lost years but still have friends buying drinks still go to the intercontinental to have maoris say it will buy you a drink to seven hour time is up and i am grateful for your time to do our interview and i urge everyone to read your book. i was very fascinated in best of luck. >> guest: thank you very much

>> i just reit -- finished reading this is a wise by president bush life enjoyed the conversational tone that he took and his presidency in the big defense white 9/11 and others that are part of the presence and in the process of getting to the karl rove new book, i don't know if anything had more of a lasting impact on what we are talking about today van we did with regard to the economic meltdown.

reading secretary powell sen new autobiography would be frustrated with him by the end of the time but to give the benefit of the dow to see his side of the story. french and center and i am also reading new book from a local alabama author called the the final sum it. he takes real people from the past churchill, abraham lincoln, joan of arc, george washington carver and weaves them in a fictitious way but to use real-life examples to inspire us to be better