publication of the pentagon papers despite the government's protestations of the time that we would be in serious national-security difficulty if the information came out and the government has not identified any kind of wiki leaks disclosures. julian assange has been busy finding extradition to sweden on sexual assault charges and the wiki leaks website has for the last several months not been open to new business. ..

>> make some judgment about their newsworthiness, and rather than dumping the public demand themselves, they enlist the help of map stream news organizations with wikileaks and the guardian and the "new york times" to get the material to fact check it and redact it if necessary. it was about government transparency, but, you know, there's really no way for these organizations to know what the leakers actual agenda is. it's just some conscious

stricken whistle blower leaking the information or a partisan out for the advantage with a political opponent. let me close with this. however the first amendment issues play out, let's hope that our government's hands are clean. we know about joe lieberman's attempt to destroy wikileaks, but there's no evidence that the obama administration, the white house was come police sit in developing the sexual misconduct charges against assange after the three big releases last year. following upon those disclosures, friendly sweden offered an international arrest warrant seeking assange to

arrest on misconduct. there's not many instances of using that heavy legal artillery for such a charge. companies that supported wikileaks like paypal, amazon, visa, mastercard, could have decided independently without government prompts other than lieberman to withdrawal their support and the hacker attacks on wikileak servers could have been orchestrateed by others without government encouragement at all. it would be disstressing to learn our government was involved in any of this, and imagine the irony if this was discovered in secret government documents soon to be discovered

by wikileaks. [laughter] >> thank you very much, professor. thank you very, very much. questions, students, anyone, get in the microphone. over here? okay. >> to be prosecuted under the espionage act anybody can be, or do do you have to be an american citizen? >> anybody can be. there's issue about our ability physically to criminally charge somebody who's not here. got to get them here in order to do that. there is an issue under the espionage act prosecuting citizens versus the government employees. up until the apec employees were

of government employees who disclosed information, the employees were the first private citizens charged under the act, and that prosecution was unsuccessful. >> is there any evidence on whether the two newest appointees to the supreme court are more favorable to the first amendment than their predecessors? [laughter] >> well, there's some -- there's not much evidence. they have not decided many cases. the problem is the justices they replaced were pretty good on the first amendment, that is justice stevens in particular, president

ford's only appointment and came from being a middle of the road republican passing to the liberal head faction of the supreme court and very firm on first amendment issues on latter of his time there. the two replace. -- the two replacements have not yet made a difference. at least one more in order to make a difference. some of you, i'm sure i told you, thee best justice on the course, the strongest justice on the court on first amendment issues in my view is anthony kennedy, a nice catholic boy from sacramento who is real good on the first amendment. >> yes, in the requester 60 minute" interview, assange said the charge against him had quite an economic impact, and have you

heard lately whether he's on the verge of shutting down or not in >> well, they are pleading poverty to some extent. i don't know where they get the money these days. i think people who are doing movies on assange are paying for it. he's got, i think it's a $1.7 million book contract, so they are not impoverished yet, but limping along. when they were cut off by all the credit card companies and so on, that had to hurt, sure. >> what kind of legal representation does manning have, and would any pro bono group ever want to be involved? >> i don't know. there's a whole support system for manning. operation -- i'm sure you can find it online -- and he has a lawyer i'm sure assigned by the military. he doesn't have resources, but

he has a lawyer. none who the -- i don't know who the lawyer is, don't remember the name even. he seems to be doing all the right things. he was not able to spring manning from the awful conditions he was held in. he's in a place where it's better, can associate with other prisoners and so on, but he would be well happen represented, i don't doubt that. >> i assume you think there's appropriate time for the government to act with sympathy -- for the government's action to be secret. >> oh, sure, there's a legitimate immediate for secrecy in many situations. that can't be doubted. for example, had wikileaks learned a week ago of a plan to

learn bin laden and leaked that, that would have been a major, major prosecutable case. anymore questions? >> telling us these ways we cannot convict, you know, wikileaks and everything, how did they convict scooter? >> scooter was not charged under the espionage act, but two of perjury, two of false statements to a government agency, and one obstruction of justice like barry bonds, for his false testimony. he was convicted on false counts. one of the false statements he was acquitted on, but his sentence was commuted. he was not pardoned.

the sentence was commuted by president bush. question is back here. >> when cheney outed duke plain, why was that not considered, you know, breaking confidentiality or a form of espionage or form of treason. >> i'm sorry? >> when which cheney outed plain, why was that not reported? >> the prosecutors didn't announce it. that was the reason. there's a whole separate law on disclosure of the identity of intelligence agents, and that law, itself, apparently has some

flaws, and the special prosecutor in the case, fitzgerald, the guy from chicago, decided he could not prove the elements of that case against cheney or libby. >> a number of people seem to have been prosecuted for lying to the fbi. is there an obligation to talk to them when they see you, or can you just refuse to talk to them p >> might be good criminal lawyers here who have familiarity with that. my impression is you don't have to talk to them. they knock on your door, and you don't have to talk to them at all. they don't have legal compulsion on you to talk. if they subpoena you to a grand jury, you'll have to testify, and you can always take the fifth, but you can't take the first.

[laughter] >> bill, would you go back and look at the espionage act and look at the word "unauthorized"? i thought it said if you are unthorsed, suppose you have the information in your authorized and to have it, is that a violation of the statute? >> i'm not sure i follow. >> if you have authorized to have it and you give it to somebody else, is that a violation of the statute? >> of someone not authorized. >> it initiates the exposure. >> not necessarily, and the crime also includes failing to give it up. some of you read the fine print in the letter to assange threatening assange with prosecution for failing to give up information which itself is a crime, not just disclosing it,

but having it without authorization. >> what do you think is the strategy to commute scooter's sentence to commuting rather than pardoning him? what's the difference? >> he remains a convicted felon with a communication rather than a pardon. he's a convicted felon and unable to practice law and forever be known as a convicted felon. the connotation lowered the sentence to whatever he was sentenced to, 10 years to nothing. i don't know. it's entirely political. >> can you believe something would ever be entirely political including this issue of first amendment rights.

mr. turner, thank you so much for being with us today. [applause] g for more information visit the publisher's website, p3books.com and serge figures of speech. >> my attempt to answer a question that i was asked very frequently when i was talking about climate change, particularly after i'd written the book in 2005, and that question was what are our chances really of surviving this shifting climate that's looming and that we are causing? the only way i could think of to answer that question was go back to the scientific fundamentals, go back to the process that created us and our planet, and, of course, look at the intersection between us, the issues, and this thing that we

call planet earth because at that intersection, the issue of stainability arises, and i couldn't think of a better way really of starting to look at the issue orn go back to the work of that man there. that's charles da rwin's tombstone. he tells you something that he was buried in the church, but nothing is said on his tombstone of his achievements. it's uniques of all the monuments in the abbey. you wouldn't know why he's there and what he did with the theory of revolution was not looked upon kindly by the church. the reason i wanted to start with darwin because he was the

man who really explained to us how -- what the process that made us and the process that made our world, and his idea, his bright idea was an extremely simple one. it was simply that in every generation, there is variation between individuals and that some of those individuals and were rightly to survive and reproduce than others, and over the vastness of time people were just becoming aware of the history of the earth in the mid 19th century, but that must tell on irritability, those on the species as a whole as he put it. the very, very simple idea that darwin being a very wise man, i think, a very per spentive -- per perceptive person sat on

that idea for 20 years. it's only when i went to his house in kent, that i understood more why he waited so long before he announced this fundamental idea that changed the way of the world. just outside his house, he built a limit thing called the sand walk. it's a pebble walk, i don't know why he called it a sand walk. great men can do odd things. every day, he would walk for several hours around that sand walk, and people wondered why he did it, what was he thinking about and doing? it's just a loop around the forest there. scientists speculated maybe he was perfecting his arguments or constructing beautiful paragraphs that characterizes

his written work. his children suggest something different. they left memoirs that talked about his father and played in the forest there and interrupted him, and he always seemed to be glad of the interruption, and that's not the actions of the man who is deeped in critical thoughtment i think what darwin was doing as he walked was metaphorically fingering his worried bits and thinking about the implication of religious belief in this country for the shape of civil society and other deep matters. i guess what he was worryied about was destroying faith that we were in the care of a loving and caring god, but the result

of a process and by destroying faith, he would destroy hope and charity as well and have a very adverse impact upon his society. he may never have published his theory if it had not been for this man here. in 1858, years after he first stumbled on the idea how we and every other living thing on the planet was made, this man here, wallace, was working, a man 20 years younger than darwin, self-made, went to collect bilogical spes mans, and while on an island, he had an attack, and as a result of the attack, the idea came to him. the prep species were created by

the -- he wrote a note to darwin outlining his feeling, and asked darwin, you wouldn't mind transmitting it to one the journals to be published and written. when he received the letter, he was horrible. well, this couldn't have made a difference of my work if you had my notes in front of you. he thought his life's work was about to be stolen. as it was, he appealed to his friends, particularly those who looked after journal publications and so forth, he worked with a great geologist, and as a result of their intervention, both pieces were published in july of 1858. it is extraordinary how similar

they are, the theory is presented in fullness and completeness in both accounts, but for all of that, it was like a guy in british society and no one took notice. the man in charge of publishing by the journal, professor bell, an expert on the topic wrote in his summary of the year 1858 did he know sin typhic discoveries, nothing that were revolutionizing science, and, of course, they wouldn't have been more wrong and that was showed in the following year, 1859, when he published the book, the religion of species, and then as darwin releases the theory upon society, everything begins to

change. spencer returned to survival of the fittest, and social darwinism had been born. darwin didn't help his own cause in the subtitle for the book including the line on the preservation of faith of races. i can imagine going in a book shop in 1859, an average englishman, picked up the book and saw favored races, i would not think of worms as the favored races, but would be thinking about british empire builders in england. so there was this social impact, and over time i think what we saw was a very, very big impact op our society by these darwinian ideas. everything from national socialism to genetics to

economics have been born some form of darwinism thinking, particularly as mediated through the likes of spencer, so i, as i was beginning to look at the prosises that create -- process that created us, i reread darwin, and begin to think perhaps we were selfish, short sided by another process. it's this man here that gave me hope that may not necessarily be the case. wallace lived a full life dying at the age of 90. at the age of 80, he was still writing. in fact, i would argue his most important work was published in 1904, and that's the book there, man's place in the universe, the

study of the results of scientific research in unity and full relativity, and that's what it is. it's what the evolutionary mechanism created. he was not like darwin, not interested in drilling down the reduction of science more finely in terms of understanding the revolutionary mechanism. he had done that in 1858. he wanted to know what it created. his feel of the devil was the entire planet, and this book is the foundation of expert biology and compares worlds and this planet is not only living, but the others wherever they be in the universe, are all dead. it's all the forerunner of james' work on another theory.

he talks in the book about the atmosphere, how it works, the way dust which is created. it's an extraordinary work really that underpins many aspects of current science, particularly holistic science, theory, and so forth, and what we learn from wallace and his work is that evolution is not nasty british, and short. it's not a survival of the fittest world, but this mechanism has led to a world of extraordinary interconnectedness and cooperation, and i just want to run through a few examples of that cooperation. this site just shows

mitochondria, the power packs of the sells. it's been recognized for years they have nothing to do with us. they existed millions of years ago and came to inhabit the cells of bodies like algae co-habit on the coral reef, but over the years, they have become so closely tied in with our cells and it's to intracat now, they cannot exist without our bodies, and our bodily cells cannot survive without them. that's just the beginning really of the complexity of what we call a human being. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org.

>> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants to know. >> i'll mention one book i just finished. it's an autobiography entitled " infidel" about a somalia born woman who was brought up in the war-torn area that that several african and middle eastern countries firmly escapeed to holland and got political there and got involved in parliament there. she was involved in a real controversy based on a movie that she and a man produced about the harshness of islam and the way that it's being swept

under the rug by western countries. this resulted in the man being assassinated in holland, and she was under protective custody for some several weeks. the basic premise of the book is that number one, the countries that she observed in africa are being held back by the religion islam particularly because of the harsh treatment of women and not allowing 50% of the population to reach their full potential, and also that western countries such as holland by accepting extreme version of multicultural are encouraging

radical fundamentalist islam to take hope and be a part of western democracies with their mistreatment of women, with their honor killings, with their female mutilation and things of that nature, and so she calls on western democracies to work towards better assimilation and integration of people from other countries. >> tell us what you're reading this summer. send us a tweet@book tv. >> next, david reynolds presents a book on uncle tom's cabin exploring the political and social factors that influenced the novel and race in america prior to and following the civil

war. it's about an hour 20. >> welcome to the center, i'm the executive director of the stowe center, and we are delighted you are here and hear about harriet beecher stewe center inspires change and not just about the past and the american issues of the 19th century, but we want to take those issues and look at them in the present and try to inspire people to be good citizens today and participate in solving today's problems so that we can all continue to work towards fulfilling the promise of america. that's our mission.

2011 is actually her 200th birthday, but tonight here in midday, you can buy at the center tonight, your own copies of david's book, and you can get the book signed, of course, and the price tonight is a special price just for tonight so when you to your bookstore -- you should just get it tonight. [laughter] we had the opportunity to start to get to know david reynolds years ago because an author

works hard on all the background and research for that writing starts. we had conversations with them and also talking about historians about harriet beecher stowe. this is exciting to meet him in person. there is a human being behind that voice on the telephone. he received his ph.d. from the university of california berkeley, taught english and american studies at northwestern university, new york university, and rutgers, and then in 1989, moved to the city university of new york and now distinguished professor of english and american studies at the ph.d. program at the graduate center. he's a widely published author and his books have been recognized with awards including the prize and ambassador book award, the timist for the --

finalist for the book award, editor of six books, the author of waking the giant, america in the age of jackson, don brown, the man who killed slavery, sparked the civil war and seeded sile rights. john brown alaska from connecticut as stowe is from connecticut. there's overlaps here. a cultural biography, a book with the straightforward title, walt whitman, the author of beneat the america renne sops, the imagination in the age of the emerson and melville and that "s" word submersive came up in oping l tom's cabin and its impact. there's the issue of faith and fiction. when you see the list of books, you begin to understand how much he -- how often he may have run

into stowe and uncle tom's cabin in the others. this book tonight is mightier than the sword, uncle tom's cabin, and the battle for america which will be released by norton on june 14 #th, stowe's 200th birthday. also released by oxford press will be a new modern version, a splendid edition of uncle tom's cabin, a gorgeous document that you have to wait until then to get. please join me in welcoming david reynolds. david? [applause] >> thank you very much, katharine. what i'm going to do is comment for 15-20 minutes introducing my book, and then katharine and i will have a friendly dialogue

and open it up for q&a for the audience. it's great to be here at the historic stowe center. she spent the last two decades of her life -- i've done research here and truly appreciate everything the stowe center has done, and this is such a great year to come to the center in hartford. the 200th anniversary of the birth of harriet beecher stowe whose novel created such an uproar that lincoln called her the little lady who made this great war. it's possibly an understatement. i think it's true from the

research i've done, but a lot of people were saying very, very similar things about that novel other than abe lincoln. it's the 150th anniversary of the civil war, and so the ideal time to reconsider stowe and her war in igniting the civil war and influencing american history up to modern times. although it's associated with the civil war in most people's minds, some historians said it had minimal influence on politics, but this view ignores the tremendous power of the public in the america which regarded stronger than the government, an ideal that lincoln echo the when he declared our government rests on public opinion. whoever can change public opinion can change the government. lincoln was recognizing what

some historians today have forgot. culture in politics are often treated nowadays as separate domains. over here we can read book after book on lincoln, his team of rivals, politics that sit behind the civil war, or civil war battles, civil war generals, civil war soldiers, and then over here, we read books, literary books on art, on music, on theater e on culture, and then there's some books that have a few chapters on the politics and a few chapters over here on the culture, but we have to realize that culture in poll -- politics always interpenetrate, and too many his tore yaps

over-- historians overlook that and too many have given cultural historians and political his tore -- historians neglect that. we realize how culture and politics are not separate, but interpenetrate, and very often it's the cultural outsiders, the outliers who lead the way. sometimes the cultural outliers are forces for destruction. the recent prime example is al-qaeda, a tiny cultural group splintered that guided much of western politics for the last decade. right now the jury is still out about the ultimate political outcome of another strong cultural force, the social networking behind the arab

strength, but sometimes cultural outliers have identifiably good results. one example is ghandi, martin luther king, or others like them leading to direct political change that can be called positive. on the positive side, huge cultural phenomena have swayed public upon as powerfully as the novel of uncle tom's cabin, essential to making america a better nation. harriet beecher stowe was an unlikely factor of political change, dreamy eyed, she was a housewife with a brute of chirp. she had various illnesses

worsened and married to a brilliant husband, but driven by her passion of hatred of slavery, she wrote uncle tom's cabin and in 1852 broke sales records and became an international sensation. the boston paper said it sited more attention than since the invention of printing. another noted it was much less a book than a state of vision, of feeling and consciousness in which they didn't sit or read or appraise, but they walked and talked and laughed and cried. my new book, mightier than the

sword uncle tom's cabin and the battle for america which will be officially published on the 200th birthday, advanced copies for sale today here, came from the biography of the book. now, i had previously written biographies and cultural outliars like walt whitman and books about poe and hawthorne and so forth, but now i wanted to tell the story about uncle tom's cabin, explore his place in history what came together in harriet's life at the time. it can be explained by the fact it absorbed images from every realm of culture, religion

reformed, anti-slavery, sensational adventure fiction, among others, and brought all of these elements together in meme rational characters and two compelling plot lines. the northern one about the thrilling escape of the fugitive slaves of eliza and george harris with their son, harry, and another tracing the separation of the enslaved uncle tom from his family when he's sold into the deep south. s trk owe learned a lot about popular culture when she was a magazine writer in the 18940s, -- 1940s, and then she channeled these images and more she picked up and channeled them into a

deeply human narrative that still moves us today, and it's a narrative with a crystal-clear message. slavery was evil. so were the political and economic institutions that supported it. uncle tom's cabin shaped the political debates over slavery in ways not recognized. it's from the horrors of slavery that intensified the public sentiments behind the rise of lincoln and republicans because it made abolitionism previously an unpopular movement, actually splintered movement divided among many different forms of anti-slavery, most of them unpopular. it made it suddenly attractive to millions of people who formally had been indifferent to

slavery or who cared little about it. at the same time, the novel caused a serge of pro-slavery sentiment in the south. after all, why did the south have to defend slavery? both american presidents owned slaves, overson, washington, many others. most of the supreme court justices -- why defend it? it's part of the system. suddenly uncle tom's cabin comes along, and this serge grows, and creates this ideology itself that slavery is a ignorant and exposes if to western

civilization. this book dramatically increased the tensions during the civil war. by the eve of the war, one player, uncle tom's cabin is given birth to a horror which all the politicians could never have created and done more than all else to put the dmort and south -- north and south against each other. the book traces the details of that and how it continues to screw up controversy through reconstruction and well beyond the 20th century. its influence was amplified by host of plays and merchandise like puzzles and games and this and that. now, whether as a play or novel, uncle tom's cabin was an agent of maiming nation.

he gave agents abroad to russia, china, brazil, and cuba, and in america, the novel particularly inspiring to african americans, the ex-slave frederick douglass cited no one had done more for black people in america than harriet beecher stowe. how could it be a catalyst for civil rights? after all, that's not how most people today see the novel. the title character, uncle tom has box a by-word for a spineless sellout, someone who betrays his own race. we tend to think of the novel of an old-fashioned sentimentsal affair that teaches the deaths of the enslaved black man and

his blond angelic child friend, but this view, this negative view is egregiously inaccurate and does a gross injustice to uncle tom's cabin. he's actually a muscular dig mid man in his 40s notable precisely because of his not have betrayeded his race. one reason he passes up to chance to escape the kentucky plantation is he doesn't want to put his fellow slaves in dangerrings and later on endures a brutal whipping that leads to his death because he refuses to tell his master where two enslaved black women are hiding. as for little ava, she bravely

accepts her coming death and would gladly give up her life if that leads to the emancipation of the millions of americans enslaved black people. together, tom and ava formed a bond that offers lessons even today about tolerance and decency. unfortunately, these were lost in the stage versions of uncle tom's cabin. stowe's novel was the most popular and longest running play in american history. first appeared in 1852 and countless others followed. by the 1890s, there were hundreds of acting troupes panning out across north america putting on uncle tom's cabin, and many across the city english

and american went out as far as india, australia, china, and as you remember from the king and i, siam. the play was seen by more people who read the book, although the book itself remained extremely pop paw harriet -- popular, and in 1895 the most popular books were viable and uncle tom's cabin, and it kept up a very, very steady presence. the play was seen regularly until about the 1950s and then spue ratically after that there was recently a wonderful staging done by alex rogue last fall in the metropolitan play house in the village. now, in many of the earlier

plays, uncle tom was falsely presented as a stooped, obedient, old fool. that's partly where the stereotime came from. eva's death dm those plays was frequently a scene in which the actress was hung by rope or piano wire against the backdrop of pillows and clouds. one might think that such sight would defang stowe's revolutionary book and turn it into a laughable piece of harmless entertainment, but actually this didn't happen. after all, the play is about racial relations and the wickedness of slavery, and so this thing had riled up many southerners before the war, and after the war during the long

period of jim crow, that period of legalizing of a nation that lasted into the early 1950s, many white supremists of the era found the book to be a very, very dangerous novel. another author saw an uncle tom play and went. he was so up fiduciaryuated -- infuriated by what he saw with the endorsement of black power. he said a little yankee woman wrote a book, and that act of that single will caused a war, killed a million men, ruined the south, and changed the history of the whole world. now, he responded to stowe by

writing many best sellers appropriating the character names to be reversed to create a pro-southern, anti-black statement, and one of the novels that he wrote, massive best seller, called the cleansing, became the source of dw griffins book which was masterfully made in the sense that it was completely redefined which is probably what it's all about because it created the vocab vocabulary, but at the same time, it was causing the resurrection of ku klux klan as the here rows -- he rows of the movies and

stamped the dna of racial jen -- generations, and even as these reactionaries were getting very wide add audience during the era, this helped keep alive stowe's real message there were non-sympathetic films based on the novel and disseminated into popular culture, and stowe was defending black leaders who wrote of stowe as a frail, overburdened yankee woman with a steadfast moral purpose. we americans, black and white,

gratitude for the agreement that exists today in the united states of america. over time, stowe's vision gained assemblance in america. during the civil rights movement despite the condemnation, dhows who acted in the true spirit of stowe's nonviolent tone, people like martin luther king, rosa parks, and many who participated in the peaceful sit-ins and marchs proved to be the most successful in the end in bringing about positive change that an author who has such a great impact as harriet beecher stowe seems unlikely, if not

impossible, especially at a time when women had no political voice because she couldn't vote. even when she toured, she couldn't speak. if you were a proper woman, you didn't speak in public. at a time with no political voice, in a nation upon which the scottish writer, cindy smith, in the four quarters of the globe, who reads an american book or goes to an american play. that was said in 1820. he soon learned who would be read most of all, harriet beecher stowe. she, herself, had an explanation of her impact saying it always helps to have a define friend. [laughter] after the novel had become a best seller and her brother edward warned her not to become

vain of the popularity. she told her friend, dear edward, he not be troubled, he doesn't know i didn't write that book. her friend explained, what? you did not write uncle tom? she replied no, i only put down what i saw. it all came before me in visions, one after another, and i put them down into words. now, her plans about the define authorship of uncle tom's cabin satisfied her own pious yearnings, but they raised questions about the actual background and repercussions on the novel. the issues at the heart of uncle tom's cabin such as race and religion, it's a very religious

book, gender, law, democracy are just as vital today as they were in harriet beecher stowe's time. those interested in these issues or frankly just anybody who enjoys a terrific story, but pulls at the heart strings. i've been teaching the novel for years, but even jaded old me, when i was reading it for my class, i started crying. i said, now, wait a minute. i'm a teacher, i'm not supposed to cry over a novel. anyway, anyone who wants to be emotionally moved should read or reread uncle tom's cabin. there are many wonderful edition s that are written. it's great to have joan here, by

the way. the edition that katharine mentioned was called the splendid edition because there's 117 illustrations and seven in the initial 1852 edition, and what's neat about these is that they are not caricature representations. so many later versions that came out during the jim crow era really are stereotypical in their representations of many of the characters. i will guarantee you what's great about this edition is that we hope it was here today, by the way, but the printer just messed up at the last minute so they will be here very, very soon. what's great is that, you know, you really capture the essence -- it's true in the first edition and it's funded in the edition later and it's more

true because he captured the essence of the story, and i see my other book, my other new book, mightier than the sword, uncle tom's cabin and the battle for america as really a compendium volume to the novel. i think that if you read both books in this 200th anniversary year, you'll learn a lot about america and joan referred to uncle tom's cabin as perhaps our national epic, and you will see why the novel stapedes out as -- stands out as one of the most influential causes for good