meaningless, but close. then schools in fact become dangerous places. because children are smart. they have high energy. and if it's not used purposefully and positively, it will be used, i guarantee you it will be used -- you've heard of cyberbullying. that's really just child abuse by children. call it what it is.

ways to engage kids to care for it at these answer factories endless regurgitation education. i hope you read the book. i think there are some answers in there. i think it's absolutely vital that there be two floors to counter this attack that's going on is that the problem is just that the road. i firmly believe that if you make teaching a better job so that the men and women who went into teaching for the right reasons will find we have a lot of other people write their own law. we just need to take some -- redefine what were doing a transformative way.

i hope you agree to both. thank you for being here. and let party. [applause] >> john merrow is president of learning matters focuses on education. for more information visit learning matters dog tv >> coming up next from the book to be archives, william tranter recounts the whiskey rebellion from seven to 91 to 1794 when appalachian settlers fought against the federal tax against liquor distilled drinks.

on august 7th 1784, president george washington cited the militia like to suppress the rebellion here this is about 50 minutes. >> now a day to introducers eager for this evening, leaving hogeland born in virginia and raised in brooklyn. his articles have been in "the new york times," atlantic lee. his new book, "the whiskey rebellion: george washington, alexander hamilton, and the frontier rebels who challenged america's newfound sovereignty" actually was just released today comes that you were the first audience to hear about it. we are very excited to hear about that. [applause] and following the surgery are you talking would be happy to take questions of the audience. we ask that everyone, to the microphone to ask the question from here and then we hope many of you will join us for a whiskey tasting following the events. the taste is generously.

by victors, which is the oldest commercial whiskey distillery in the country, so it's historic in its own right and we would love to have you join us for that. in this analysis of copies of the church trade phrasebook, which he would be happy to sign for you. that for coming in are going to turn the program tour speaker, william hogeland. >> thanks, kristen. thank you offered being here. it's a nice turnout. i have noticed nothing to do with the whiskey that's going to be poured after this is over. if he does, don't tell me. let me go one of the dilution figure here in search of knowledge. i'm happy we can actually see some older styles of whiskey because it wasn't the sole reason i wrote this book obviously, but it was one of the french benefits was learning something about older styles of

american whiskey and victors is during some interesting stuff in that regard. we can talk about that later as we milled about later on. and also, being here, wall street rising and having this be the day that my book is actually officially on shelves, it's very exciting for me as well. it is great to be downtown in lower manhattan. wall street rising is doing so much to continue to agree with going on in this beautiful and crucial part of town. it used to be the whole time upon time, that we're talking about today, the late 18th century. that seems very appropriate and very nice personally for me to be part of something so much bigger than my project. another sponsor or another group here that should be mentioned is the museum of american finance who do a lot of work in finance education, something i discovered when i started to write about the whiskey rebellion is sorely needed.

it was needed by me and it is an interesting connection to nature realize that i am finance is a very key piece of the founding story and something that is not taught about in enough detail is it that we're going to be boring or too abstruse. it's not. and there i thought i was elements in tree into connected to finance an going to talk about that today. so it's a great day for me to be here with these three different elements. it's sort. it's sort of issue can shoo it away when you had to book it would be great if we could pull together a whiskey company in the museum of finance. you don't really let yourself think about that. and the fact that it's happening it's really nice. "the whiskey rebellion," i'm going to take a flyer and say

maybe you don't every detail of this story in us because it's often been relegated to inside hour or a couple sentences in a tent in american history text for advanced college history text. it may be unfair. i think i'm going to probably need to give you the whiskey rebellion when no one fairly quickly and then we'll talk about the more interesting aspects of what it might mean. the whiskey river was an armed uprising of american citizens against the federal government of the united states. it took place -- its first incidence began in 1791. by the time it came to its climax in 1794, it was a fully organized, thousands of people in militia units under command of officers veteran fighters, veterans of the revolution,

subjecting an entire region of the country to a state of insurrection and threatening secession from the united states. this region, unlike say the confederacy would know about later on come this region is not defined as a collection of states. this is defined as parts of a number of different states. the focal point was the headwaters of the ohio river in western living in iran but was in the village small town of pittsburgh, but it also included people from western maryland, western virginia, kentucky territory becoming a state. we can think of that is the less good at the time it was the wild west. backside of the appellations, looking with the watershed westward, not this way. that was a discrete region and had a discrete set of issues in

a discrete set of patterns. indeed when the revolution came, many groups come in many regions declared their insect independence, asked the congress that they could become state, were turned down because state said you're already part of days. we can't get me to the congress a separate states. but turn down, look elsewhere for states. some kind of a clinically written some bad about asking spain to take them in. it was a massive union and unity were actually very clearly for us west of the mountains. so that's where this took place in the western consciousness that existed that already was an important part of what true of these incidents an actual rebellion. its climax in 1794 when the second term washington at this ration the 13,000 troops, which was a large number of troops for the time, more than an deep in the british at yorktown, for

example, to effectively and the revolutionary war. appeared across the mountains led by the president, president washington that could harness as general and a large -- the first significant military action they undertook against american citizens. so it has a lot of first attached to it. what triggered it to be triggered as a loaded word in the context, what triggered it was the first federal tax. the first federal tax on a domestic product, on an american product. and taxes on imports briefly cover federal taxes, but this was the first national tax on american product and that was what we'll be sampling mitterrand, distilled liquor, whiskey. hence the term whiskey rebellion. when the rebellion itself from

the rebels themselves engaged in horrific activities which will tell you about in a second, when washington's administration came west to 13,000 engaged in acts of -- the aggregated civil liberties in a way, warrantless searches of teachers, detentions without trial, detentions without charge, et cetera, et cetera, the kinds of things that give civil libertarians the willies. and i should at all so this is 1791 to 1794. those of you upon constitutional history know that that means this is a federal government that was barely in existence, has just been formed. some of such media today when i was talking about these the fabrications of civil liberties in which the federal government, executive ranch indulged in 1794. she said i guess that was par for the course at the time

though. not really. and you think about it, the ink was barely dry on the bill of rights, were those liberties were launched, were pioneered so, their number of interesting conflicts in this story come interesting themes in american history that i think i've given that the whiskey rebellion has not been -- usually hasn't been part of the mainstream of the founding story. many of these conflicts in the deadlier degree to which they became quite raw, quite violent crime intensify 1794 has been decent extent over the period which is why he wrote this book. it's also -- everything i've told you i just heard of hinted at. but i was thinking when i first encountered the story is how come i don't know about this then because it's quite interesting. the kids were interesting but not.

and that is a question that remains open to me with this story has been pushed in a way margins to sidebar in the history of the period that they question our story for another time but there's some interesting elements very. just as the story alone, it seems strange to me that dona strachey told the 4-h leader because just forgetting some of the deeper themes in american history, she's got a lot of if you can the cover, but this is not false advertising. it's almost like boys to adventure sorted stuff a lot of the. there's a lot of swashbuckling and daring do and men in black face and wearing women's clothes come attacking federal officers in the middle list, shoot us in what was then the wild west, an evangelical left wing, the religious left of the 18th century that doesn't get talked about very much today. and characters like washington,

lake hamilton or you're familiar with as well as kerry terriers who are just not told about that often frontier intellectuals, evangelists and so forth, all of whom the crisis of their lives in the story, this is not a small matter to hamilton for example. it was of paramount importance to him as washington. certain aspects came to climax in the story. so it's a little strange we don't know more about it and don't see it as central. i can't tell you the whole story right now. i'll be checking my watch periodically to see how we're doing on time because we don't want to hold hold of tucson on the tasting, but i got everything i knew that's great about that size. it's feeling pretty distilled and i can't actually tell you everything so i'm just sort of thinking about things on how to combat this in a short time.

this is the inaugural talk to try to get out of the couple different ways and see how this resonates with you. when i take questions or comments, we'll see how much sense as actually makes them like you make of it in this brief glimpse. who were these whiskey rebels? they almost brought us to civil war in 1794. they almost succeeded from the union. the union almost dissolved during east to west sectional split that we don't really talk about that much. who are these guys? they do come down to finance interestingly enough because we don't talk about regional issues and rebellion. it comes down to w-whiskey. w-whiskey is intimately involved in ways that are not exactly well known and it comes down to some inherent tensions and conflicts that have perennially shown themselves and our

american democracy and republican government, things i need to tensions between liberty and authority, between freedom and equality. so i'm going to give you a little glimpse of these guys by reading a short section and then we'll talk a little more about who these guys were and why hamilton and washington felt the need to take them so seriously. this is a little section of chapter two. no, chat to one which is called over the mountains. part of what i give you a glimpse of this how things sort of the mountains. it was very far from eastern civilization. one night in early september of 1791, robert johnson recently appointed collector of the federal revenue for washington counties and far western california blaze near tributary called pigeon creek when he found his way blocked by men who

forced him to dismount. the gang member 15 to 20 armed with muskets, rifles and clubs were blocks east. many poor women stresses. johnson was amiable but dan. a sharper person might not have been surprised to be confronted in isolated part of the forest by the solid on hunters, militiamen in the woodsman and neighbors, flamboyantly described. attacks that johnson had been hired to collect was on distilled liquor. the first tax ever levied by the united states on a domestic product. only two weeks earlier admitted in the town of washington had adopted a resolution spelling out what to be done with people like john senate resolution of them published in the pittsburgh cassette. the tax the washington committee complained it didn't cinematical socially be a didn't operate in proportion to property. so as far as the committee was turned, tax officers are considered not silly lowlifes

contact: are said to be fat but also public enemies, all decent people should refuse these even carburetion and treat them with contempt. tonight the king addresses set about treating robert johnson with contempt. their procedure for the whiskey drinking and hilarity that attended an adventure was far from improvise. when it was humiliation, a gentler version with with less clothes but that was not the idea tonight. remember john's was to the men cut his hair to various school. on flash, hot or not only inflicts pain but can also see her. porous clothes and skin orifices and can suffer injury. johnson made that, but despite abject terror and crazy disguise was noting some of his attackers. collect or is the emissaries from the east the local hires. he paid a percentage of what collectors took from their

neighbors. he saw one of his attackers was daniel hamilton of the lecture and it will connect did, and miami have no relation to alexander hamilton. there were fewer names in american culture then. for obvious reasons. he saw one of his attackers as daniel hamilton, was not closely and interconnected at generations in age. they would turn mico creek not far from the town of washington pick the most prominent was john hamilton into the kind of success as a self-made well-to-do farmer businessman that many people were finding it harder and harder to achieve. beauty was here, too. daniel hamilton had not done so well. of 40 he was charismatic with combat experience in the resolution and a strong sense of his own power to intimidate. his life had been going wrong. eastern visitors by not cropping subversion timber could mistake this area are howling wilderness

and missed the fact he was also a complex of neighborhoods and industries. daniel hamilton and other gang members for farmers and hunters mainly for subsistence and seasonally for berger, sometimes for cash. fema sharpshooters used muskets and rifles to kill rabbits, bears commit gears from the squirrels and beers with industrial scales, too. milling grain in making bricks out of, tax nelson does. many had talent, ambition and skill to make money removing the gist to be incident where scum is selling to the army and buyers across the mountains to the east. if their federal government could get them access to the control mississippi there were huge untapped markets in the other direction, too. but many of these industries are no longer owned and operated by the settlers themselves. then they print more and more often than those in the arts of ranch entrepreneurs and ironworks could employ dozens of men while its owner by the thousands of foreclosed acres recently owned by his own

labors. daniel hamilton up on some 240 acres. soon he owned only 100 in a few years all of this land. these losses are being sustained by disappointed for better and they didn't know no different others at the time feathering. the word independence for hard register for for it replaces saving families unprotected from hideous torture and slaughter paper to show indians cheered when the war ended, these men mustered out of the army of virtually unpaid. daniel is typical. still he stood out. for moments like this he bought a degree of enthusiasm people remembered. there is a chilling message light is the newest addition to need no compunction about putting his hands and we commend and seeing them shaken he could rattle off terrifying descriptions of what his victims with to be suffering. maven can do sent by loss and betrayal can obtain a hamilton is focusing enthusiasm for violence on a belief shared with

those fellows that wrongdoing could be override by terrifying displays of physical punishment. as daniel mccain applied noxious if you meet our common dislodges oiliness was absurd by johnson's skin and a spot in christ grabbed hair of a wholesome. when johnson was sufficiently sticky beginning to play culture feathers, which i'm shaken of a freshly turned it down when he was made to lie down upon them bonded with the silly hardening blackness and to be removed on the time and effort. the trend that can take johnson source implied he had anguished by a score and do all public memories for taxman was left alone in the dark forest. so that's the whiskey rebels. that's not the rebellion. that's the beginning of the rebellion, the incident notes up to what i described a minute ago, a regionwide men under this plan, underarms, no longer en masse, marching openly against the u.s. government.

but it became mayor. and so we see two things here might fantasize. one is the fairly obvious, which this was an horrific and sadistic attack intended to cause terror not only in the person against whom it was made, but against everyone else as well. anyone who supports a tax, pay the tax, and force attacks, their lives were to be made unlovable and this is what became an extreme problem list of the appellations in 1794. something else i want to emphasize as well as little as obvious when they think whiskey rebels. the people spontaneously say let's get drunk and get that guy. no, this was a planned action. these actions were not spontaneous in that way and you may have caught these guys are responding to resolutions written down in published. they had a plan. they had an idea. they had a critique actually of

finance policy. they were carrying out great violence and vociferous menace. as you can tell the world they lived in and have lived in for some time and their fathers and grandfathers is a very fat world. but we need to remember they had a bears pacific critique of what was going on and that's when alexander hamilton named this event the whiskey rebellion, he was trying to expunge. he wanted us to see people out of control running around that because they couldn't get enough with e. or whatever it would be a whiskey rebellion would imply. not so. it's more complicated than that. they understood something about finance for some people and the congress did numbers and. so actually am going to read another section to underscore

what i think the story is really about. this is shorter than the one i just read. we will tell you something about the tax law, the whiskey tax law that these guys are dead set on getting repealed and if not repealed that was it. they were going to be out of united states. didn't work out that way, but that was their plan. this is just a short section jumping height on the tax that they were so upset about. a lot of both the black faced game and dresses in a reference to something outside of, politicians at the greentree caverns wanted repealed or at least adjusted was entitled an act repealing after the last day of june next come the duties here for land upon distilled and also upon spirits distilled in the united states and appropriate in the same. that's the way they use to them to be modest.

passed by united states in march 1791 party pity at them also upon spirits distilled in the united states heralded something new. the first federal tax on american product. excises of such duties are not on import spent most of products are commonly called a cause limitation for rights and liberties were worshiped because excises have traditionally been attended by a race and demand a jury trials. aristocratic literature can do no exercise nasty attempts by crown in ministry. associated by land owners with aboriginal freedoms to grow bbc site manufacturers anyone's associated by landowners with decadence and tyranny. it was english politics at the rhetorical abomination of excise had long been able to alliances with groups whose real interests are often at odds. colonial americans had forced just such an alliance try not

familiar anti-excise themes and condemning an arbitrary internal tax with independence when the u.s. congress imposing heated excise would seem to be the ideological betrayal. others saw things differently. american inch parts resist england, but preferred tower on law when it came to making policies. a tax might represent good or bad lesueur and the one interest or the affair, but how can a fundamental evil arise from a texas operated internally, not externally. it is easy to see a federal excise as an innocuous luxury task passed on to drinkers. surely nothing deterrents whether anyone over. what people in the backcountry recognize the most congressmen lacked the expertise to understand the mechanisms embedded in this task for keeping both in the hands of a few while denying western

neighbors and small farmers are lassoing chances for economic opportunity. the daniel hamilton game that attacked robert johnson was less concerned the whiskey tax could be classified in excise so offensive to genteel libertarians that i worked on the laboring people at the headwaters of the ohio in a particular way. those on the tax disabled as well as alexander hamilton knew hamilton was strapping a very smart bomb on a target he'd been softening for years. the secretary of the treasury was celebrating a big jury which some at the forks of the ohio had every intention of cutting short in a long struggle over nothing less than the power of money in the lives of the american people. so i like to play a part of that snorting swashbuckling acts of derring-do and violence and characters in crisis in this book, you can tell today don't think this is just a cool story that would fund all of the other

stories, let's bring this one in. i see the story as absolutely essential to its going on in yet because we don't know i feel it takes the founding. inserted shakes it up really violently and a lot of stuff falls out when you do that that is just not been discussed much lately. okay, let's see. i'll go one step further before you start looking for questions, commentary and so forth. i want talk about hamilton because i just hope that the rebels in who they were in uganda hinted the fact that they weren't just townspeople and franken found running around with pitchforks, but had a detailed critique of economics, which they've responded to them fairly harrowing ways. hamilton understood to these people were. and someone is far better than

the jeffersonians in madisonian to patronize them. hamilton who is out to stop them in their tracks got what very swear. there were a few misconceptions about the whiskey rebellion want to use that as a way of getting at hamilton. the people have heard of it get a few things wrong because rove is trying to shoehorn the whiskey rebellion in what we think we know about founding history but if you just start looking at the whiskey rebellion, what we know of upcoming history starts to shake out a little differently. as one misconception that in some ways it was just a big misunderstanding but if everybody had been more communicative and clear and more sensitive, this whole thing would not have been. hamilton could be over the top, didn't get what the effect is going to be. they were as you can see fairly intense people who overreacted to things that hamilton had been

less of a victim of a way of awake thinking of gondola people thought, maybe this wouldn't have happened. that's not the case. hamilton and the people both got exactly what the tax was four. this is another misconception that is sometimes thrown around about the whiskey rebellion. the purpose is often said was to pay off for pay down the revolutionary war debt. even if one's leaps through american history in college come you can still pass the test of your member hamilton found in an assumption. hamilton wanted to fund the war debt in this industry at senate. funding the deck and paying up to date are not the same thing is most people actually know. if you pay the minimum on your credit card every month and think you are paying off your debt, is a mistake to let a huge

impact on your life. hamilton never said he was being of the dead. he was trying to fund the debt and wanted to use the whiskey tax as a way to do it. still, than what is the problem? why would anyone not so vociferously to attacks on the war debt? funding the war dead at the turn the kids thrown around so quickly and away in founding history. funding the war debt that specifically pain relabel interest to investors in the federal debt. record the finance district. this is the finance museum. we know that debt can be an asset to the person investing in it. that was safe mall class of people come a very rich people speculating widely in investments like to work at. they were hamilton's people, hamilton's crowd. hamilton's idea was to enrich these people and connects their interests permanently to that of the very act to powerful

government. we did do that was to be sure you could find that debt, which meant pay them 6% interest without fail on thousands and thousands and millions and millions of dollars in holdings. to do that to make it truly wealth creating, the thing you need to do is not tax them. keep in mind they should set this up. so easy to forget. at the somerset i don't think of this as an issue. your income from their bonds was not taxable. so this is tax-free. however we going to make those truly worth creating quite simply taxes people come in the same people involved themselves in the import export trade, so further taxes on imports and exports are going to do it. but we need to do is open the purses of the people. go to the mass of ordinary people will never own a bond in their lives and get the money

from them. earmark it to fund the federal debt. this was not a secret. it's just we talk about it now we use the terms people don't take about getting their hands on the note that said 6% on the face and people hold -- speculators held in large numbers. you can see how this can begin to seem unfair. those whiskey rebels it was just reading about said this tax does not operate in proportion to property. they actually have a concept of a regressive tax. were often told this is anachronistic to even talk about. they thought the attack should operate in proportion to property, that it didn't -- wasn't a problem for them. hamilton deliberately structured his finance plan to include the whiskey tax in order to get as

much money from the largest number depo who did not hold bonds, earmark the funds and be sure to pay the class it interest. that was the purpose. i was a view of the finance plan and we usually get when we study hamiltons innovation. but he made no bones about it. he appended a draft tax bill with his first report on the public credit. he wanted to make sure everybody thought this is the way to do it. why that was the way to do it have to do with the strange intimate relationship between whiskey and the rural economy as subsistence farmers, especially in the west where people were already rising not been seen were not part of this country. we don't want to be part of this. we're going to spain, where independent. a lot of things came together in

this whiskey tax. pounding the west with a tax that would essentially we won them by dropping them as their only cash crop, which was screened in the form of distilled liquor put them out of business because as hamilton said it's just a tax on consumption, and innocuous luxury tax. producers passed to consumers in the form of higher praise. he structured the tax exactly in carefully so it would charge smaller producers are far higher tax on large producers. i'm not going to go into arithmetic. it's in the nose here. you can actually read the tax bill and see how his thinking. no one were to be subject as well as he did. he said the tax up to charge the poorest, smallest producers who could least afford it the higher tax and allow the bigger

distillers a large industrial corporate distillers a mechanism for lowering tax renovation until their pain tenths of a penny for the effect is immediate. you would if you are a small distiller have to raise your prices. you certainly work and pass it onto your consumers consumers. your competitors with lower priced substantially. small businessmen went out of business and ended up losing their land as we just talked about. working in factories that there'll creditors. this is a cause of great concern to people to whom it was happening and they've been fighting with hamilton for more than 10 years through the entire confederation before there is a constitution, right up till this moment in 1791 to 1794. okay, there's more, but i think i'm going to stop here. i've dumped a lot of information and a lot of ideas and a lot of

character especially when it comes to hamilton. i want to say when the thing about hamilton. if you repeat them as part of town sponsored by museum of the american finance and i felt this august and in the book as well, his ear floating around. but they don't hear him saying to me in the we could end up arguing about that don't hear him saying no, don't say that. you're getting me down. the benefit of not having to have political cover, hamilton at cnn's belgrade. he had it not good reasons in the lane for what he was trying to do. he did a fiscal program of pounding the men and women and families who became the rebels, tiny tooth should. he saw that is good for the country and had very articulate reasons for seeing it that way.

okay so that's a glimpse of the whiskey rebellion. that is the party just told you about takes a mismatch of the book. that is what launched it. the rest of the story of conflict and how it developed. i don't think you can understand the action if you don't understand what was causing it. as you can tell i don't think you can understand the founding. is what i've come to without understanding issues in the whiskey rebellion. so, if you're going to have comments and questions, which i do be do, can you just go to that microphone and asked when they are so that because we'll be on tv? we need to pick up what you're saying. did you have a question? okay, yeah. i'll repeat it.

[inaudible] >> it was going to a select actually. funding an assumption created a deficit of bifurcated that way, i think it was $80,000. he said -- he told the congress we need to defunding assumption that the pastime and come up at the whiskey tax as controversial as they waited to have a deficit and force to pass it and just in terms of this going to raise more than night for the next month. or whatever. were we a nation that reserves was the basis of the question. by today's standards, there is no question about it. people in the east talked about whiskey rebels as a bunch of habitual drunk. people in the east drink morning, noon and night, too. by any standard we apply the world drunk because they started

their days -- you can read about washington's habits of mount vernon. this was an scandalous. this is the way everything was. people drink early, drink at lunch, drink with dinner, after dinner and started again the next day seven days a week. so whiskey was consumed in massive amount, both in the west were the best was he was made, which is why there was a cash crop business for it that would at least let the western settlers get some kind of cash in their lives. there is a market there in a market across the mountains back here in the east because people really appreciated good whiskey they came from the headwaters of the ohio region. was there someone else? if you don't mind, sorry. i know it's a long walk.

>> why did hamilton feel compelled to punish the small manufacturers? this doesn't strike me as the level playing field that everyone who is a millionaire to about. it sounds almost like regional warfare or class warfare accept on behalf of the very wealthy men talking about not so much this i.t. leaders because that is just true of any bondholder, but the manufacturers -- it was interesting the chats about how is viewed to benefit large manufacturers. why did he do that? what was the rationale for doing that? was a rationale to do to benefit the nation?

>> yeah, hamilton firmly believed in pursuit this or another other projects after funding assumption on the whiskey tax with the nation needed was to become a commercial and industrial empire with a powerful centralized -- sort of a powerful centralized machine. if you could get industry consolidated instead of dissipating energy on small farms and small artisan shops, but actually get it coalesced and connect it to national interest, you could compete with england, which is the model for doing this we got a lot of ideas. for world power. any commercial sense, hamilton had a military site is well. but in this particular model, he definitely wanted large, innovative industry, not small ad hoc standard industry in every aspect of american lives.

the whiskey tax was a particularly nice laboratory are trying to carry out the experiment. the level playing field, no. the playing field with steve and people didn't talk so much then about a level playing field. but hamilton did see this as necessary to national security, national cohesion, to union and in the end he in washington did everything they could come including right down hired on american citizens come in a telephone have committed crimes by any stretch of the imagination in order to ensure that kind of unity. not a level playing field. >> was this the first of a series of taxes that he tried to levy on other industries? >> he did end up having to go the other taxes because it

became impossible to collect. but he did choose the whiskey business for you series the reasons. i've said this wasn't me a misunderstanding. he just didn't get but the effect is going to be victims of a good nice place to collect tax firm. this particular tax is carefully calibrated. the whiskey business to drive small rebellious westerners on the business and get that piece of the business consolidated. he did work on other projects that were not tax related. he started, probably many of you know he stated a model industrial pound in patterson to show how consolidated public private partnership factory towns could really be far more efficient than standard agricultural industry. he did have to impose other taxes is the whole story develops. one of the things that

precipitated his having to -- is in washington's decision to bring forces against american citizens in the west was because they couldn't collect his tax at all anywhere west of the appellations, because of the kinds of things i was reading to you about, he had to start bringing other taxes on other products. and i forget some of the other things are consumer goods were used here and in philadelphia and things that actually -- the merchant class and the finance year class were suddenly horrified by the idea and taxes. so part of what drove to move against the west was the fact suddenly he was getting a lot of grief about taxation from his own allies because the attacks and to recent revenue because the tax was not call it double. other questions and thought? yes, sir.

>> the other source of revenue that the federal government town at that time given by the constitution was terence and they are taking serious about how high you should make a terrace, whether you should do it to optimize revenue stream or to protect her industries and grow industries in the country. hamilton was instrumental in bringing those ideas across. i am wondering how did this tax work in with the. tariffs? and was this tax ever, or did he mean it to be some large percentage of what the federal government was taking in or had it square with what he did on the terraced front to iraq in federal revenue? >> right, was the percentage to the duties imposed and so forth? i don't know the answer. what the actual relationship in terms of actual dollars run and

peered well, not the whiskey tasting bring in any dollars. how much it would have brought an affiliate and able to collect it, compared to how much they brought in from terrorists, i don't know dollar amounts they are. but the really interesting question and i will look into it, but i don't know. the issue about terry as having -- you know, there is controversy, is it okay to charge a tariff to raise money or only okay to protect an industry international financial interest was definitely also a controversial issue at the time on which i'm not focusing in the whiskey rebellion, but it's true in the way i look at the whiskey rebellion -- the whiskey tax i should say is that hadn't worked, its purpose for the would've been however much it rocked to make sure you were collect the money earmarked specifically, not just revenues,

money earmarked to fund the bondholders from specifically not from bondholders themselves with the merchants who had terrace, but a whole mess of other people. but i don't know how the dollars for the first time that fund. interesting question. yes. sorry to ask you to the night. >> my family name is lego and at the time of the whiskey rebellion, my ancestors were scotch irish settlers in western can the mania and the law and our family is people participated in this something were rather proud of because the law as they were standing up for the rights of the little guy. at least serious if you ran across any information about my family quite >> how do you spell that?

>> that than it could've been little. >> i don't think i've run across that name. if your failer scotch irish settlers in western pennsylvania to attend a one way or another involved in the list rebellion however. [laughter] there were people he did comply with tax or tried to. there were people out there who weren't in the state of rebellion, people trying to sell legal whiskey to the army, which is one of the western frontier and you couldn't tell it legal if you didn't have certificate in the stamping couldn't get the stamp unless you pay the tax and if you've been touched up pain in the tanks burning could be burned down, things like what i read about have been too rapid jump in. you'd be shunned by your neighbors and ultimately potentially worse. some people are very afraid of assassination. so whatever site they might've

been on, i can't speak to that. but it would've been hard not to be fairly mentioned what is going on in 1794 if you repair. the idea also that it was partly standing up for the little guy was really one of the ways it has been around and in many ways a sum of playing fields thing before sheriff's, but there's another thing i want to emphasize before we close as, which the piece i just read to you we would all take that to be an ideal example of standing up for the little guy. those acts of violence are fairly horrific. if you're someone who just do you want it to the tax in the city didn't want to stand up and make a change statement of loyalty to whiskey rebels, you're in the minority or you're deemed to be in a minority and you're not allowed to make a statement. you'd suffer the consequence is. so the little guy issued its

complex in the rebellion because the about for the for the little guy involved trouncing other little guys at times and burning down their own neighborhoods and so forth. i'd think at the moment when we should be starting to drink some of this whiskey and not just talk about it. i think they are serving manhattan, which i don't remember coming up in my research, but i think we can let it go for today. thank you are very much for the great questions. [cheers and applause]

>> professor scott allard, what is "out of reach"? >> well, this is motivated by rising poverty rates in the u.s. over the last decade that occurred during a time when the way we hoped for people changed as well. what is out of reach now are the social service programs are composed of a large share that we hope low income americans in the book was focused on where the returns are located and how difficult it might be for low-income working poor families to access. typically when i think about helping low-income americans we think about cash assistance like welfare or food stamps and those are really important, but we spend just as much money if not more than social service programs that job training, education, child care, housing assistance, mental health or substance abuse services promote greater well-being, how people find and keep a job. but i can't value job-training

like i can a welfare check or food stamp benefits so it becomes important where programs are located in as the book discusses the latest that yours on where programs are located and it turns out they are least accessible rate we rethink -- daily successful where poverty is the highest. >> or faster come and give an example when it comes to job training on how that is out of reach for americans. >> is interesting to pick a job-training because it demands a really unique or not only do they connect to low skill, low-wage jobseekers which tend to be concentrated in central city areas, but also in suburban areas. they also lack of access to stakeholders and funders. they have to access to employers and jobs. there's not one location that's going to need all this means if

you're close to your stakeholders you may not be close to employers. if you're close to clients come you may not be close for jobs are located. providers face a difficult challenge and ultimately to make them work while they have to be located our jobs are located in suburban areas where employment opportunity currently is concentrated. that means it difficult to get to those programs that live in the inner city and are isolated from public transportation may not have asked us to another mobile. but the mismatch i describe in the book occur not just with employments, but different in these categories. >> with another service category quite >> another example is to pantries or organizations that provide food assistance. you'd expect this to be located close to low-income populations. and they are. it's just in those cases demand for services is a great but

there is a great access necessarily. for instance if you're living next door to a food pantry that serves 100 people, that there is demand for health by 10,000 people in your neighborhood, they may not be true access compared to setting that there's a hundred plus further assistance for 100 or 500 people. even though there are food pantry scum and are not after resource to meet the need of surrounding communities. >> what did you find was the reason for this change in how we deliver social this? >> one of the interesting things about the way we provide assistance social programs aren't authorized by a federal program or bukharin. instead for a variety of grants and programs that federal and state level as well as the local level. they drive revenues from nonprofit where philanthropies and because they're so many revenue source is emerged over

time in more of a patrick fashion and that has created a setting where you providers located in some places and not others. a very social service agency you have other demand on what you can afford, we can hire recruit staff, achieve economies of scale and has stakeholders are individuals who might raise funds. he might have a commitment to a certain community or area in office instead her into her organization slow-k. in the end there's a lot of evidence in the book on this is true across three different measure areas, chicago, los angeles and washington d.c. that high poverty areas tend not to have adequate access as lower poverty areas. and there's no one reason. it's a combination. but my sense is in many communities it's hard to find suitable office space and recruit staff to work in some of the highest poverty

neighborhoods. and also frankly a lot of work frankly a lot of organizations prefer to locate downtown or near corridors of power where they can connect with foundations and fundraisers and that's important they're going to be a growing concern. it has unintended consequences. >> so what is the solution to that? >> in this economic environment is tough to think about solutions. oftentimes we talk about this much is in social service programs or we talk about the lack of adequate provision safety and assistance, our gut instinct is to say we should spend our money -- a government should spend more money. and the current fiscal environment, that's not viable in the environment was apparent on the horizon when i finished the book. so if you think of strategies that allows us to maximize the funding that we do provide an help us connect people to assist in saturday exist. one goal might be to hold the

line or maintain public's anime levels of us we can be another may be to connect to services that support or help narrow the mismatch is to partnerships with a space organizations that may be trusted, maybe connect he puts out. i think another critical element to improving social services is for americans to increase the private support it safety net. only organizations received some money from private individuals or private donations. it shows that we don't have enough. if americans relatives about their philanthropy in hard economic times, these organizations may be able to open new sites, new programs that would produce these mismatches. the strength of the safety net will be at our private to mexico fellowman will not only translate into dollars today for organizations, the greater public support on