is. >> we're going to have meetings with some of these organizations, but even before that they should recognize their own social responsibilities and recognize if they're broadcasting inappropriate images, they should stop that. >> kay green. >> like many others, i've been shocked at the extreme use of some of the -- [inaudible] earlier this week. but the children who are engaged in criminal activity aral children in need. can the prime minister confirm that our use of -- [inaudible] services will be properly equipped and supported to provide the agency interventions which are needed to redirect those young people from a future in crime? >> yes, i can. we are making changes to the youth justice system. that is really to incorporate it within the ministry of justice where i think we'll be able to make it for efficient and work better. >> raymond -- [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. the prime minister attracted enormous criticism as a member of the opposition when he made a

speech attacking the consequences of family and societal breakdown. he was right then, and he's right now. and with that can i ask him to congratulate the excellent work of kent police in making our streets safe? on monday night we had criminals coming to london trying to set business zs alight. >> i certainly pay tribute to the kent police force. what he said about the importance of addressing problems of family breakdown and irresponsibility, these aren't easy things for politicians to say because we fail on many occasions, but it's too important to ignore. >> mr. frank dobson. >> i think we all welcome the prime minister's praise for the individual police officers, for firefighters and for ambulance and emergency staff. will he now fall up his warm words with warm action and abandon his proposals to undermine the pensions

arrangement of those same firefighters ambulance and policemen? >> we're taking action on the advice of lord hutton, the former labor pension secretary, i think, who whose written a vey good report. he does make certain exceptions for uniformed services, and i think it's a sensible report that i'm sure the honorable gentleman will study. >> mr. tbreg mulholland. >> thank you, mr. speaker. threats of violence against our brave firefighters, and yet the legislation is insufficiently clear. there is no specific offense of threatening a firefighter and legislation allows only for a 5,000-pound fine be into the on transition of the emergency -- obstruction of the emergency services act. -- [inaudible] is it not now the time to revisit this with an appropriate strong custodial sense -- [inaudible] >> well, first of all, when you

hear about people attacking firefighters who are trying to put out fires, it is absolutely appalling and unforgivable that can happen in our country. i know this issue about giving specific protection to specific public servants has been looked at in the past in criminal justice legislation. i dare say we can look at it again, but i would thought any court being able to use its discretion and judgment would want to give a pretty exemplary sentence to anyone who was as vicious-minded to attack a firefighter when they're trying to put out a fire. >> order. notwithstanding the heavy taxation of the prime minister's knee muscles, i am inclined to continue and take the contributors, but i do urge colleagues, please, to help me to help them by being brief. mr. david andersen. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i was genuinely saddened to hear the prime minister's response to the question about -- [inaudible] people who commit these damages. can i ask him to think about --

[inaudible] receiving end of these people who have seen communities destroyed by the acts of these people and give the courts the -- [inaudible] >> well, perhaps i can arrange for the housing minister who has worked very hard to deliver this policy to contact the honorable gentleman. but as i say, i think if people are in social housing and behave appallingly, it should be possible to evict them and keep them evicted. >> [inaudible] >> my citizens have also been victims, strongly welcoming the much tougher policing that has been launched since monday night. the prime minister mentioned phil bratton who's done such fan fan -- fantastic work. can the prime minister mention some of the things we might be able to learn from some of the excellent beat and street policing that is done in many cities in the united states and has been done for the last 17 years? >> this work is done in the united states, it's also done in the united kingdom.

i think one of the things is just to work harder to map and understand how many gangs there are, what their membership is, what they're doing so that we have better intelligence. but i'm sure there'll be many things i'll be able to discuss with bill bratton shortly. >> [inaudible] >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. the prime minister talked about not wanting a -- [inaudible] and i don't think any of us want that. but there is a division of view about whether we have sufficient policing available to deal with this. i praise the way the police in my constituency have helped to avoid this -- [inaudible] but perhaps the prime minister be he's right that there are absolutely sufficient police would agree to insure that we have a regular report parliament telling us how many police are available and how many of them are riot trained so we can know the real facts.

>> i would welcome that because the point is the police availability figure today is only 12% of police officers on the beat at any one time. now, she likely is a valued member of parliament. let me just repeat what sarah thornton of thames valley said. what i haven't done at all is reduce the number of officers who do the patrol funks. so we haven't cut those numbers at all. we have not cut the numbers of officers and pcsos. thames valley is a big force and is not always a very well funded force. if they can do it with these budget reductions, other forces can do it. >> and jack -- [inaudible] >> will elected police commissioners have the power themselves to authorize the use of water cannons, troop support and things like that, or will they have the let others make that decision further up the chain of command? >> those decisions must always be an operational matter for the

chief constable, and let's be clear because i think the honorable member didn't fully understand this. we're talking about electing commissioners who are replacing the police authorities to whom the chief constable will be accountable. >> barry clinton. >> as they witnessed the events across the country and members of our -- [inaudible] police force deployed to the capital, can't the prime minister tell my constituents how by pressing ahead with huge public sector cuts he will sustain their confidence in the capacity of all the public services meant to protect them? >> i think perhaps the honorable lady should stay for the next statement where we're going to hear about the difficult decisions we've had to take in this country so we keep our credit rating, so we have low interest rates, so we can get our economy growing. we now have lower interest rates than almost any other country in europe. why? because we're taking these difficult decisions. if you don't take the difficult

decisions, you end up with other countries with rising interest rates and in the case of the united states of america, the biggest country of all, a debt downgrade. >> carl mccartney. >> mr. speaker -- [inaudible] back in 2005 lick order -- public order training for police officers was reduced. does my right honorable friend believe like i do that this may have been exacerbated some of the images that so annoyed the public in the past few days, and would he like to see that trend be reversed? is. >> there are going to be lessons to learn about the balance between riot training, the balance between that and ordinary beat policing. and i know we want to learn all those lessons in the days to come. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. police officers under research which shows that the well -- [inaudible] there's a decrease in criminality and whether it's cuts in the youth services and increasing crime. youth work is part of the solution to this disorder, but you make it redundant across the country as we speak.

will the prime minister introduce a moratorium into these service cuts? >> what i'd say to the honorable lady is we are actually going ahead with a my place youth center program which is seeing vast, very well funded youth centers built in places like hackny across some of the most deprived parts of london. and anyway, i don't accept the causation she has that somehow a budget change in youth service leads inexorably to the sort of looting and rioting we saw in our street. >> mark halsey. >> can i, first of all, congratulate the prime minister who is doing -- [inaudible] in remaining in the dispatch box. can i welcome -- [inaudible] that he's bringing forward to compensate victims of the violence. but one group with concern -- [inaudible] which have been torched by thugs which have only got third party insurance. would the prime minister provide some comfort to those incident victims? >> well, thank the honorable gentleman for what he says about

these long sessions at the dispatch box. i'm beginning to get used to them. in terms of uninsured businesses, they are able to claim under the riot damages act, that's what the act is there for, and and as i've said, the home office will want to stand behind police force bees that are adversely affected by that. >> john -- [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. mr. speaker. is the prime minister willing to extend -- [inaudible] legislation to restrict gang members wearing masks, can he explain why he opposed the measures at the time and he allowed the right honorable -- [inaudible] now attorney general to describe them as practically unwork and rely dubious gimmicks? >> well, now the attorney general is working so hard, he'll make them workable. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. this week, this week saw the busiest nights for the london fire brigade since the blitz in terms of number of fires in one night.

will the prime minister join me in commending the brave and dedicated public service the firefighters do around this country, and will he also join me in thanks police officers including dozens from north north hampton fire and police? >> well, i certainly praise the police, but i'll also praise again the firefighters in this london and elsewhere who did such magnificent work. one story i was told was of a woman firefighter who was on her way to work, and a rioter pushed her off her no ped and took it from her. instead of going home, she just called down a taxi and appeared for work and got on with fighting fires in london. it's that sort of spirit and bravery we should praise in the house. >> mike weatherly. >> -- [inaudible] i can tell the prime minister the biggest concern of retailers is one of lenient sentences. can he give the retailers some assurance that sentencing will

increase, and he will come along to the next meeting on 8 september -- >> i may want to send the business secretary or someone from the business department, but he makes a very important point that by hiss want -- businesses want to see not only the people who perpetrated this looting being prosecuted and convicted, i think they also want to work even more closely with the police to try and protect their premises. i've heard this from multiple chains who had in some cases had their store attacked in many, many different places on the same day. >> mr. steven hammond. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i commend the prime minister for the statement and his comments about social media. the criminal element that visited the constituency of my friends were due to come to wimbledon on tuesday night were urged to do so on social web sites. can i ask the group to look at the possibility of introducing variance to license on a

temporary prohibition on a public order basis? >> we'll certainly do that. i mean, what method we use, i think, isless important than the intent of trying to look at ways in which we can make sure if social media is being used for violent purposes, we're able the intervene. >> marcus jones. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i join with other members and right honorable member across the house who have commented the work of west mid lands police officers. will the prime minister also join me in commending the brave work of officers who have also been given mutual aid, and will he also be able to tell me if smaller forces who are given mutual aid will be compensated by the government for that work that's being done? >> the way this works is the act has established a system which is how forces work together to make sure that officers get to the places where they're needed. and i think we should allow those arrangements to work. >> mr. graham evans.

>> agree with me that those convicted who tried to destroy our society should not receive the benefits of our society. >> in i think my honorable friend is referring to the petition that is gathering signatures, and i think we should be looking at additional powers to make sure we confiscate from people who committed crimes to make sure the punishments they receive are robust. >> bob stewart. >> thank you, mr. speaker. when mark duggan was shot last week, immediately the ipcc cut in, sealed the crime scene and then there's no statement made. this gives an excuse to rioters. it would be very good if ipcc or someone could make a definitive statement as to what happened rather than sort of conspiracy theories build up. >> i think the difficulty with what the honorable gentleman suggests is that the ipcc have got to get across the details before they make a statement. i think there's a huge danger on

these occasions of making false statements that can either inflame passions at the time or afterwards when the voracity is questioned. i think we have to put confidence and faith in the ipcc system which is independent of the police and, therefore, can give the victims confidence. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, mr. speaker. i, too, would like to thank the prime minister for coming to hampton yesterday, i particularly welcome the initiative on planning. yesterday evening i was with a community tv station who were actually on the dudley road, and i heard with my own ears the brave, stoical, wise words of terry -- [inaudible] i also spoke about half a dozen young muslim men who said to me quite directly, you will not stem this tide of irresponsibility unless the house speaks with one voice. it is very important this issue isn't hijacked for political point scoring. would my right honorable friend concur with that view? >> can i thank my honorable

friend for organizing the meeting yesterday, and i'd also like to pay tribute to him for the wise words he spoke in his own community yesterday and for his efforts to bring people together. and, yes, let me praise, i think he was saying on tv that actually helped police to catch a criminal. i thought that was an exercise in responsibility by that media company. they should be praised and so should he. >> mr. edward tipton. >> many residents have told me how appalled they've been by the despicable scene we've seen playing out on our streets and the potential cost to them as tax payiers. -- taxpayers. will my right honorable friend take this opportunity to khan cheshire police and to reassure my constituents? >> cher she police, i know, gave help the man manchester police, and i want to reassure people up

and down the country, this government, the house, the parliament is on the side of the law-abiding. what needs to happen is taking back the streets on behalf of the law abiding and demonstrating that the guilty will be punished. >> will my right honorable friend pay tribute to the officers of staffordshire who kept birmingham and manchester safe? be mark cunningham is one other chief constable who believes he's got the resources now and in the future to do the job. >> i certainly join my honorable friend in praising the police. i know they provided assistance, and i think once again it demonstrates that small forces can do a good job in their local community but also help out others when they're in the need. >> mr. john foster. [laughter] >> looking to the future, mr. speaker, far too many of those people, young and old alike, are involved in the violence and criminal behavior appear to come from the relatively small number

of totally dysfunctional families in this country. would the prime minister agree that currently work to try and turn such families around is somewhat piecemeal involving far too many agencies, too many targets and too much paperwork? will the government find ways of targeting the resources more effectively? >> i think the honorable gentleman is absolutely right about this. we are planning to spend additional money on the 20,000 most troubled families in the country with more early intervention, much better coordination. what you find with these families is so often they've got contact of after contact with the authorities, but it's contact with them rather than actually work to change their behavior and address their problems. and i think this is a problem that is actually manageable. i know 20,000, it might even be 100,000, but it's still a manageable number we can deal with during this parliament. >> eric renshaw. >> two hours,40 minutes ago the prime minister in his statement

refer today the british mold el of policing. my understanding is that model is through and by public consent. would he accept that he's now got the public consent to rebalance police force concern and its own freedom to act? yes. i know my honorable friend's been waiting to say that, but i think he put it absolutely beautifully. i think everyone in this house, none of us want to break withbe the british model where the public are the police and the police are the public. they come from our communities, they're known to us, we know them. it's a very special thing that we have. but that model has got to be refreshed and updated with new tactics, new resources, new technology as appropriate so it meets new threats. and can i think one of the messages of the last few days is police chiefs should feel they've got the political backing to make the necessary changes to meet new threats. don't be stuck in the old ways of doing things when it's not working, and i think that'll be one of the real lessons we learn in the coming days.

>> mr. aidan burrny. >> will the prime minister consider the suggestion that anyone who is convicted of riotings who is not a u.k. citizen should be deported immediately and barred for life from returning to this country? >> well, my honorable friend makes a good point. there are now much better mechanisms to make sure people who enter the criminal justice system who don't have a right to be here are removed more quickly. >> i thank the prime minister for his commitment to the house. over the last 165 minutes, and i thank all 160 colleague including the leader of the opposition who have questioned the prime minister. we come now to the statement by the chancellor of the exchequer, mr. george osborne. >> here here! >> mr. speaker, people will be concerned about the turmoil in

the world's financial markets and what it mean for economies here and across the globe. i want to update the house on what we're doing to protect britain there the storm -- from the storm and to help lead a more effective intername response to the fundamental cause r causes of this instability. as of this morns, markets in asia and europe are a little calmer although some are still currently down. over the last month the dow jones index has fall p by over 14%, the french market is down 23 %, and it's striking that the german market is down 24% and even chinese equities are down 20% since november. bank shares in the all countries have been hit particularly hard, many sovereign bond markets, too, have been exceptionally volatile with market rates for italian and spanish debt soaring before falling back in the last three days. sadly, britain is not immune to these market movements.

in the last month, the if ftse 0 is down by 15% and british bank shares have also been hit hard. however, while our stock market has fallen like others, there has been one striking difference, the market for our government bonds have benefited from the global -- here here! >> u.k. guilt yields have come to around 2.5%, the lowest interest rates in over 100 years, and earlier this week the u.k.'s credit default spread or the price of insuring against sovereign default was lower than germany's. this is a huge vote of confidence in the credibility of british government debt and a major source of stability for the british economy at a time of exceptional instability. and it is a reminder of the reckless folly of those who said we were going too far too fast. >> here, here! >> we can all now see that that approach would have been too

little, too late with disastrous consequences for britain. mr. speaker, it is not hard to identify the recent events that have triggered the latest market falls. there has been weak economic data from the u.s. including revisions to previous gdp, and the historic downgrade of that country's credit rating. and the crisis of confidence in the ability of euro zone countries to pay their debt has spread from the friday friday to major economies like italy and spain. but these events did not come out of the blue, they all had the same root cause: debt. and in particular a massive overhang of debt from a decadelong boom when economic growth was based on unsustainable household borrowing, unrealistic house prices, dangerously high banking leverage and a fail were -- failure of governments to put their public finances in order. unfortunately, the u.k. was perhaps the most eager participate in this -- participant in this boom with the biggest housing bubble, the

most overleveraged banks and the largest budget testify sit of them all. now, history, mr. speaker, teaches us the recoveries from this sort of debt-driven balance sheet recession was always going to be choppy and difficult, and we warned that that would be the case. but the whole world now realizes that the huge overhang of debt means that the recovery will take longer and be harder than had been hoped. markets are waking up to this fact, and that is what makes this most dangerous time for the global economy since 2008. i think we should be realistic about that, i think we should set our expectations accordingly. as the governor of the bank of england said yesterday and the head of the office for budget responsibility has also noted, the british economy is expected to continue to grow this year some 500,000 new private sector jobs have been created in the last 12 months. that is the second highest rate of net job creation in the g7.

but instability across the world and in our main export markets mean that in common with many other countries, expectations for this year's growth have fallen. and that is what our response must be. first, we must continue to put our own house in order. i spoke again yesterday to mervyn king, and i can confirm the assessment of the bank and the treasury, the british banks are sufficiently well capitalized ask holding enough liquidity to be able to cope with the current market turbulence. we have in place well-developed and well-rehearsed contingency plans. we must also continue to implement the fiscal consolidation plans that have brought stability to our bond markets. i believe the events around the world completely vindicate the decision of this coalition government from the day it took office to get ahead of the curve and deal with this country's record deficit. while other countries wrestled with paralyzed political systems, our coalition government has united behind the

swift and decisive action of cuts and the emergency budget. while other countries struggled to command confidence in their fiscal forecasts, we have created an internationally-admired and respected and independent office for budget responsibility. these bold steps have made britain that safe haven in this sovereign debt storm. >> here, here! >> our market interest rates have fallen while other countries have soared, and the very same rating agency that downgraded the united states has taken britain off the negative watch that we inherited and reaffirmed our aaa status. this market credibility is not some abstract concept, it save jobs and keeps families in this their homes. families are benefiting from the lowest-ever mortgage rates, and companies are able to borrow and refinance at historically low rates thanks to the decision we have taken. let me make it clear not only to the house of commons, but to the whole world: ours is an

absolutely unwavering commitment to fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction. abandoning that commitment would plunge britain into the financial whirlpool of a southern debt crisis and cost many thousands of jobs, and we will not make that mistake. >> here, here! >> the second thing we need to do is continue to lead the international response in europe and beyond. in the g7 statement greed to between finance ministers and central bank governors this week, we said we would take all necessary measures to support financial stability and growth. in the euro zone, there is now a growing acceptance of what the u.k. government has been saying first in private and now in public for the last year, that they too need to get ahead of the curve. individual countries must deal with their deficits, make their economies more competitive and strengthen their banking systems. existing euro zone institutions need to do whatever necessary to maintain stability, and we welcome the ecb's interventions through securities markets program this week to do just

that. but this can only ever be a bridge to a permanent solution, and i've said many times before that the euro zone countries need to accept the remorseless logic of monetary union that leads from a single currency to greater fiscal integration. many people make exactly this argument more than a decade ago as a reason for britain staying out of the single currency, and thank god we did. >> here, here! >> solutions such as euro bonds, mr. speaker, solutions such as euro bonds or other forms of guarantees now require serious consideration, and they must be matched by much more effective economic governance in the euro zone to insure fiscal responsibility is hard-wired into the system. the breakup of the euro would be economically disastrous including for britain, and so we should accept the need for greater fiscal integration in the euro zone while insuring that we are not part of it and be our own national interests are protected.

that is the message the prime minister has clearly communicated in his calls with chancellor merkle, president car soaz si and other -- sarkozy and others this week, and i've done likewise in the g7 call of the weekend and will do so again at the september g7 meeting. but this is a global as well as a european crisis and a -- at this august meeting we need an international framework that allows credit to countries like china to increase demand in debtor countries to make the difficult adjustments necessary to repay them. everyone knows what needs to be done, but progress so far has been us frustratingly so with lengthy disagreements on technical definitions, let alone any concrete actions. the barriers are political, not economic, so it is up to the world's politicians to overcome them, and there are no excuses left.

finally, mr. speaker, the u.k. like the rest of the developed world needs a new model of growth. surely, we have learned now the growth -- surely, we have learned now the growth cannot come from yet more debt and more government spending. >> here, here! >> and, mr. speaker, those who spent the whole of the last year telling us to follow the american example with yet more fiscal stimulus need to answer this simple question: why has the u.s. economy grown more slowly that be the u.k. economy so far this year? more spending now paid for by more be government borrowing and higher debt would lead directly to rising interest rates and falling international confidence that would kill off the recovery and not support it. instead, we've got to work hard to have a private sector that competes, that invest t, that exports in today's world. that is the only route to high quality jobs and lasting prosperity. in the developed countries and especially in europe, that means

making the difficult structural reforms needed to restore competitiveness and improving the underlying performance of our economies. the e.u. should be cutting red tape, not adding to it. and internationally we have the greatest stimulus of all sitting on the table in the form of the doha round, a renewed commitment to free trade across the world that should be taken up now. ..

>> mr. speaker, in these turbulent times for world markets we will continue to lead the international response. we will redouble our efforts to remove the obstacles to growth, and will stick to our plan that made britain a safe haven in the global debt storm and i commend this statement to the house. [shouting] >> mr. speaker, the shocking and inexcusable events of recent days in our city are today rightly the government first and immediate plan. in recent days in april and perhaps even of graver threat to our country stability and behavior, putting small businesses, jobs and mortgages at risk all across our country. so it is right the chancellor is

updating the house and the country today on the state of the global economy. and the parlor state of the british economy, too. and in the same spirit, parks and corporations which we've just seen from the prime minister and leading opposition, let me set out where we on the side of the house agree with the chancellor of the exchequer, as well as where we have grave concerns. first of all, the chancellor is right. we may the right decision not to join the single currency in 2003. we agree with the chancellor that a crisis in the u.s. does require more decisive and radical actions then we have seen so far. i welcome the fact he is now at large involving himself in these discussions, and is also preparing contingency plan if british banks come under threat.

tough decisions in europe, but is it not clear that if european leaders so far demanding austerity from smaller countries is not working because it is nothing to do those economies growing? and without that, countries find it harder and harder to convince the markets they can repay their debts. should the chancellor not finally take the lead in brokering the plan for growth, alongside european wide guarantees, your wide guarantees, to reduce debt service costs and stop spreading? mr. speaker, i also agree with the chancellor that months of political wrestling and inserting in the u.s. over the pace of deficit reduction have depressed confidence in u.s. growth. but does the chancellor agreed with both who favor a balanced and sensible approach to deficit reduction?

and fairly rapid u.s. interest that could drive the world bank into recession? or does he agree with his friends, and we know he has many in the republican party, and in the tea party movement who have urged deeper and faster cuts and hailed the recent budget deal as to 90% of their demand? is the chancellor on the side of u.s. federal reserve, from a treasury secretary a nobel prize winner, mr. speaker, or in the words of the business secretary, is the chancellor on the side of the right wing nuts? mr. speaker, it's also right that g7 finance ministers are now find discussing a coordinated response to what is a global crisis. but listening to the chancellor analysis you would think that britain is a bystander, watching public debt crisis unfold in the u.s., best told by individual countries taking their own actions against debts on his

analysis the faster the better. so mr. speaker, this is now a global crisis, a global growth crisis on a global scale. does the chancellor agreed with me, it is the coming together of powerful negative forces in every continent, including here in britain, continue to be leveraging by banks and the private sector, addressing tightening of consumer spending, and fiscal retrenchment from government, it is those forces together which now, a warning, this crisis could become as great as the crisis of the early 1930s. the 1930s, mr. speaker, when governments around the world ignored their collective responsibility to promote growth, plowed on with austerity of entrenchment and ushered in a decade of depression, unemployment protectionism and fiscal interest -- instability. families and businesses deeply worried about their jobs and

mortgages will hear the chancellor's talk of safe havens that concludes he is either deeply complacent, or is in complete denial about what is going on in our country. these policy started kicking in well, well before this latest financial market instability, confidence has collapsed. our economy has flatlined the nine months. and nine months growing slower than both the united states and the eurozone, and on the latest figures, the forecasts confirm to be downgraded yet again even before that downgrade, falling 46 billion pounds higher in the chancellor plan. mr. speaker, we do need a tough medium-term plan to get our deficit down. but it is -- the chancellor -- [shouting] the chancellor's reckless speeding the house will come to order and i will repeat what i've said before. if dems are shouting their heads off, and then expecting to be called, they are suffering from

an element of self-delusion. mr. ed balls. >> mr. speaker, is the chancellor's reckless policy too far, to those that have ripped out the foundation of the house and left our economy deeply exposed to this global hurricane. and yet in the statement, despite all the evidence, and with our stock market falling 10% more this week, does the chancellor still cling his policies are working. and we are a safe haven. despite evidence of the last two years, credit default swaps, despite the fact in the last week long-term interest rates have fallen in britain and in the united states over the last week, despite that he still claims that falling u.k. bond yields are not actually a sign of stagnant growth in our economy. does he not remember the japanese ministry of finance briefly took some confidence as low as 41 years in the early

1990s and at the beginning of what turned out to be a decade of no growth and stagnation? i have to say to the chancellor, however many times he says his plan is working, that doesn't make it true. however many times he claims he is restored confidence or delivered on deficit reduction, that doesn't make it true either. we know he has spent the last four nights in hollywood but he just cannot write the scripts and watch it come to light. that is not how things work in the real world, mr. speaker, and if he won't take it from me, it's interesting, if he won't take it from me he should hear the words of paul krugman, the nobel prize winner who said britain's experiment in austerity is going really, really badly. fighting in fantasy. the wolf is at the door and osborne think it is the confidence very. mr. speaker, the chancellor finds the state of the british economy reissuing. we find it deeply worried.

he rejects our call for action now, including a cat and mouse to plow in the gardens. we say this approach is deeply reckless. the eurozone is in crisis. america, the british economy is flat like a global markets is in turmoil. the world desperately needs strong and united leadership. and here in britain we need our chancellor to get out of his complacent denial and get back to reality before it is too la late. >> chancellor of the exchequer. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i did see mickey mouse in california. he seems be riding the labor party's economic policy. let me start with the areas where we agree. we agreed that it is right for britain not to join the euro, and maybe the shadow chancellor change the official party of the labor party to that respect.

on the contingency plan of the financial system, i'm very happy to offer the shadow chancellor a briefing from the tripartite authorities of what those contingency plans. obviously as he will understand, they have to remain confidential but as a say i'm very happy to give him that briefing. on what he says about european countries have introduced their deficits, being forced to do so, i would ask him, who is supposed to be lending his european countries this money that he talks about in this imaginary world where they're not taking action to reduce their deficits? he voted against the decisions we have taken to increase the resources of the imf, no children and thinks there is some magical body out there, some investors who will lend money to these european countries that don't have credible deficit plans. it is completely nefarious as he put it. now let me talk about the u.s. he mentions the u.s.a.

he called for a stand on this measure? arguing. i agree with the plan president obama's set out, george washington university. may be the leaders of the opposition doesn't know what's going on in america at the moment. [laughter] actually, actually the president of the united states, the president of the united states have set out a deficit reduction plan that is at the same pace and of the same scale as the one that we are pursuing in britain. that is what the president has said as his offer, and the the opposition he has set forward of tax increases and spending reductions are the same as the spinning consolidation that we announced last year. they are based on some of the ideas put forward by the commission to go to the u.k. for inspiration for some of their

ideas. now, he says there is a global economic crisis. he is right about that. we agree about that. but it is caused by an enormous debt overhang. that is what all fears, economist are saying at the moment. it's also right when he says the labor party need a tough deficit reduction plan. i agree with him about that. where is this tough deficit reduction plan? we have just spent the last two and a half hours listening to labor mp get up and complain about spending cuts, complained about the deficit reduction plan, yes, they are all nodding their heads. where is the top deficit reduction plan that he promised? [shouting] mr. speaker, the shadow chancellor is now almost alone in the world in making the argument that he makes. he talks the international leadership. if you turn up at the g7, the imf, the g20, with his plan to

borrow more, to increase our deficit, he would be laughed out of that meeting. he is completely irrelevant to any international debate. and i'm afraid he is living proof of why the public will never again trust the labor party with their money. [shouting] >> sir andrew tyrie. >> does the chancellor agree the collapse of the eurozone is a warning to any government which flinches on dealing with a deficit? is why the chancellor isn't quite right to stick to the commitments that he made a year a go to put the country on course of greater stability? does he not also agree credibility is a long run economic policy but also depend on a fully developed strategy for improving the supply side of the economy? he talked a bit about that at the end of his statement. when he is intending to publish, to fully work of improvements.

>> first of all, i completely agree with the treasury select committee says about the credibility of the deficit reduction plan, now disaster it would be in the current environment to weaken that plan. we would within hours i think find themselves sucked into the global debt whirlpool that other countries are struggling to get out of at the moment. so i agree with him about that. i've also agree we need to do more to bring the supply side of our economy. this is hard work. it means taking on difficult tested interest. we've seen the argument in the last few days about planning controls where we're trying to make it easier to have economic development. there are plenty of groups who pop up and up those that. it is an example of some of the battles we have to have and to win. i confirm we will be producing the second phase of our plan for growth. is also at a time of the autumn forecast. >> mr. david miliband. >> mr. speaker, a be very grateful to mr. chancellor

confirm private sector estimate privacy, which are 4.% downgrade over the next four years means it will be impossible to hit his fiscal target of turning the debt-to-gdp ratio down by the end of the parliament. >> the independent estimate most recent made, was done by the imf this month. they made an assessment using lower great forecast, and they came to the conclusion that we would have both a fiscal mandates and our target for reducing debt. and they have made that clear and they're asking for reassessment. i can't help but note that if you given the leaders speech he had written, then the labor party in a much more credible place than it is today. >> malcolm bruce. >> as the world circles country after country, is it not an indication discovered it was right to come together with a robust strategy to bring our

policy into balance? the labor party lacks credibility. if there's one area we can be sure this is done in a fair and equal way which puts the lower and middle income groups in the driving seat of recovery. they accelerate process of reducing, increasing the tax ratio and reducing taxes on those people is the best way to do it. >> well, the honorable member is absolutely right. we are taking many, over a million low-paid people out of tax altogether come and that is implementing the policy of the liberal democrats put forward at the general election. i also agree with him, it's a vindication, not just of the economic decision but also the political decisions we took. i think you're reflective artifact we had a hung parliament, the first time since the 1970s. we formed a coalition government. i was a difficult decision for both parties involved. when you look at the political weakness in other countries, which is driving a lot of the

market concerned about this countries, look at the political strength of the government in britain, i think that is attributed both political parties. you set aside their clinical differences and came together in a national interest. >> jeffrey robinson. >> thank you, mr. speaker. with the chancellor assist in the bewildering, that his plan is working. please tell the house by how much this year, this financial year he will fall short of his financial tide of the apposite reduction speak with the important difference between a time when he was in a treasure and i'm in a treasure is we have an independent office for budget responsibility that makes those announcements. and it is not the chancellor that makes those announcements for the very simple reason, that by the end of the last government those treasury announcement were sewed discredited they were believed by absolutely no one. and one of the important decisions, early decisions we took to restore credibility and

british public finances was the creation of an independent agency to make those announcements. [inaudible] if so, why? >> it is the case that in the first two quarters of this year the u.k. has grown more strongly than a tiny bit however that is not a source of comfort for the world because we need a strong u.s. economy as well. and we want to help bring about the international framework which will enable that to happen. >> mr. speaker, isn't everything it took until the end of page five of his speech with chants of to even sadly mentioned the word growth? when i reflect upon the fact his own -- the region to the pages is a very important very important money into the low plan that was supposed to solve

this but has actually left the english region stagnant lake growth over the last nine months? >> both he and i represent constituents in the northwest of england, the striking facts about the regional settlement agencies is that during that period regional disparities in our country grew. it didn't work in the way they were supposed to work, and i think local enterprise partnerships, pinball businesses and a much more practical boundaries, will help deliver that local growth. but i have to say, if he thinks all the worlds problems at the moat are caused by the fabric here, i think he's exaggerating his case. >> mr. william cash. >> the chancellor will know that our trade balance is between 2002-2009, 2010 with the other 26 number states has gone up from minus 40 billion minus 53 billion in one year. does he not agree that even he would repudiate the idea of veto a fiscal unit with a hard-core

euro with such and crippled trade deficit against? the coalition agreement according to the latest answer i got from the prime minister determines our relationship with the european union. desdoes he not agree, disagree h the deputy prime minister we must every negotiation, radical renegotiation, and the repatriation of powers so we can achieve growth for all our -- shop-vacs but i think is in parliament and is, the national interest they should be suitably rationed at the chancellor of the exchequer. >> what i would say to my honorable friend is i'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this. i think there monetary union leads you to more. it was one the reasons i was against joined the single currency. however, i think it is not in our interest allow that to happen more in the eurozone. because it is in our absolute

national economic interests the eurozone is more stable, and it's clear to me that means they need a more fiscal powers to reduce their instability and that currency zone. that means of course that britain's fight hard to make sure its interests are represented, that we are not part of this fiscal integration, and important decisions, for example, a financial services continue to be taken at the level of 27 but i have to say he talks about treaty changes and so on. i think the prospect of a major treaty changes to bring about this eurozone fiscal, is not imminent but i imagine there'll be a lively debate if and when it comes about. >> the number of people who claim jobseeker's allowance in my constituents have gone up massively, hard-working people with good work records unable to find jobs. why will the chancellor not look seriously at areas like mine, do more, take measure to money in

the hands of ordinary people such as reducing the vat? >> we have announced an enterprise for sheffield, and we'll have further announcements to make in the coming weeks. what i would say, evidence of the last 10 years is that actually in important regions of our country, and i have in my mind the statistics of the west midlands from her constituency, private sector employment actually fell over the decade before the financial crash. i mean, that to me shows the model of growth based on the biggest housing of any country with the possible exception of our them with the most overleveraged things, the highest budget deficit ultimately lead to ruin. and we need a different model of growth where we go the private sector in areas like sheffield, and get real lasting jobs rather than assuming we can just use government spending. >> mr. john redwood. >> someone who believes we do

need to get deficit down and do more to assist growth, to help them. will the chancellor look at the dreadful losses of rbs and they get on capital that is on their share? and see what more can be done to manage that colossal axis in the interest of economic growth and attacks from? >> well of course we continue to monitor the situation rbs and, indeed, all the british banks very closely. there is of course a concern in the financial markets about the capless vision and liquidity provisions of banks in many countries. i have to say this has not been expressed at the moment about the u.k. we passed a stress test will. we have a strong liquidity provision in place for the banks, including rbs. and i think there for the markets can have confidence in british banks. >> but isn't it clear that the right honorable gentleman whole strategy is failing? since it is now almost entirely

dependent on achieving growth? and since the economy has been flat nine for nine months, export markets are stymied. could easily have are been tried with little or no effect. interest rates already flat on the ground. what exactly does he expect the growth to come from to get out of the long stagnation? >> as i said the british economy is turning. the assessment of the bank of england and the office of budget responsibility that it will continue to grow. the growth in the last six months has been stronger than the united states of america. as i pointed out. and half a million jobs have been created in the private sector in the last year. last 12 months. so that is all good news. and i have to -- the question, where does he expect the money to come from for additional government borrowing? who in the world which into a country that abandoned its

deficit reduction plan at a time like this? particularly a country like britain which and fortune has the highest budget deficit and the g20? >> we are all still hearing that banks are not meeting sufficient funds available to small and medium-sized private enterprises to their constituency. upon which the guns strategy has been based to make up the deficit of the loss of jobs in the public sectors as result of the strategy being pursued. a downward estimate in growth. what we do business secretary mean when he said we would have to find more imaginative ways of getting the money through? can take find what he meant by that? does he agree with it? >> the challenge that we face in many developed countries face is this, banks are shrinking their balance sheets. they got too big. they let too much money. they are also courting capital because of the current market.

what we're trying to do is ensure that in the process, bending small and medium-size businesses is protected and, indeed, increase. we signed an agreement with the banks the beginning of the year, and emergency agreement to see an increase of 15% and small business lending. we will publish the figures tomorrow, so i can't get them today. but the banks themselves have already indicated that they are on track to meet a 15% increase in small business lending over this year, and i'm confident the figures tomorrow will show that that is the case. >> in june 2010, the deficit reduction plan as adding 8 billion tax rises the year, and 52 billion of cuts from 1415 every year on top of the 73 billion or so fiscal consolidation that labor had. it also forecast growth this year on 2.3, 2.8, 2.9, and two

by 7%. those figures -- what with the chancellor do? we increase taxes? quickly cut public spending from then? or did he mean by adjusting our expectations accordingly that he would change his deficit reduction targets? >> we are not proposing for a second to change our deficit reduction target. and, of course, the deficit reduction targets is a structural budget deficit target. and was deliberately set as such. i have to say, the reason we set out those plans in the emergency budget, the reason we went on beyond the mantra provided by the last government, not that they're written in the proposals to do that, but the reason we went beyond that was because on the day we came into office our country's credit rating, know what those plans were, was on a negative outlook or downgrade. our market interest rates would track income and would the

governor, the bank again, the imf, the cbi think the government's budget, the previous budget deficit plan was not credible. if we stuck with that plan, even if we filled in the blank space, i believe we would now be part of the whirlwind of suffering debt crisis, the sovereign debt crisis which is engulfing other countries. >> before there's any attempt to rewrite history, the chancellor just confirm again that until last year's emergency budgets and spending plans, this country's aaa rating was on negative outlook and was only restored to stable through them measures he took last year? the real lesson of the united states, of any country that goes off its fiscal deficit reduction plan can suffer a downgrade with all the damage to jobs and prosperity. >> well, my honorable friend is absolutely right. last year in january last year, the largest bond investor in the world was sent this. they said that u.k. is resting

on a bed of nitroglycerin. and today i could read out a whole string of comments from market participants in the u.k. has been a safe haven in the sovereign debt crisis because of the disease we took. and, of course, can't impose, the rating agency which is just downgraded the u.s., to the u.k. off negative outlook, reaffirmed our aaa credit rating. and the practical consequences of this is much lower interest rates. if we pursue the policy proposed a more spending, more debt, immediate response will be higher interest rates which would kill off any recovery. and that is what it is really economic madness. >> thank you, mr. speaker. given worsening u.k. growth, with a chance of advocate further easing? if he won't say on that, does he believe that there's no chance of rapidly rising hurting our export? >> well, these are both matters property for the bank of

england. and for government to comment if he chooses to comment on the value, and in terms of positive easing, the arrangements which were as agreed by the previous government, which i continued, remain in place. if the budgetary policy committee makes a search request, then, of course, we'll seriously consider it but we've had no such request. >> sarah newton. >> yesterday in my facts reported the low-cost the barn in the u.k. on average for five years to fix of mortgages. and a 1400 pounds cheaper than two years ago. this is very welcome news for hard-working but squeezing constituents in my constituency. i can the chancellor confirmed that he will continue his policies that will have a low interest rate so important for families and businesses across the country? >> i absolutely i will. and i think interest rates are often the missing parts of the debate in this chamber.

and it is economically impossible for the opposition have more spending, more debt, and low interest rates. those things don't square in the current global economic environment. so the automatic response, the immediate response to the market and quite possibly for the monetary policy committee would be an increase in interest rates if the party opposite were to abandon the fiscal plans that we have put forward. we would have interest rates that would kill off in recover recovered. >> without preamble so we can maximize the number of contributors. >> mr. speaker, the frightening ability of the world economy has arisen since and as a result of the abandonment of postwar arrangements designed in bretton woods and a localization and globalization of finance capital. half of that original was each of its country had its own currency. isn't that sensible to move back

in that direction by establishing national currencies within the eurozone? >> well, we did abandoned the bretton woods arrangement the early 1970s. it's been a while since we've been operating under the international arrangements. i would make two observations. he makes a serious point about the eurozone. i think it would be disastrous for britain's economy if the eurozone was to break a. i think would also be disaster for the economy of the eurozone, it would leap immediately to a crisis in many european countries. and that's why in our interest, in the eurozone works. some of us question what it was right thing to go ahead with 15 years ago. we said we didn't want britain to be a part of the. as i've said before i told you so is not an economic policy for today. but when i think he is right is that we do need better international arrangements for monitoring and dealing with the global rebalances but the fact

that huge credits in countries like china and big data countries like the u.k. and united states. i'm afraid the progress of the g20 and imf on this is painstakingly slow. some of the meetings are not even able to agree on definitions. i hope if there is a silver lining to the black clouds of the moment, the financial market crisis, we will see in the autumn meetings much greater progress that i think if one accepts needs to happen. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i congratulate the chancellor with the death of reduction program. but can he tell us, what has he made about the rising price in gold? how much better off the u.k. economy would be if the last comment had sold off gold? >> well, in anticipation that the question might come up, as it often does, treasury event, the price of gold has hit a record high as people would've seen of $1800 year it was $300

when the shadow chancellor sold our gold stock. and as result of this country has lost 12 billion pounds. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the chancellor, the house will know the chancellor does not mention the fact that we are approaching 5% inflation. he did not mention the fact that we're 46 billion over his borrowing. he did not mention the fact that consumer confidence is falling, or that the business confidence is falling. he did mention his growth plan but there is no growth. when we accept the parallel that the sharper the cuts, the deeper the cuts, the less growth there will be? >> well, the question i would ask him is who does he expect in the world to be lending money to countries with very high budget deficits that don't have credible deficit reduction plans? what group of people would put the money on the line? that's precisely the problem we've got at the moment in the

global financial markets. he asked about inflation. the governor of the bank of finland said yesterday in his press conference expected inflation to hit 5% this year. but i would say another silver lining to the dark cloud, the commodity prices have fallen in the last few weeks. the oil price has fallen somewhat off its high. one of the biggest challenges i think all developed countries, and, indeed, developing countries have faced in the last year or so has been a very big increase in the oil prices. >> mr. speaker, can i welcome the chancellor's comments about the need to cut deficits? can i also remind him that however the market is important for exports? and the growth required and sellers to the conference to transact. will he therefore while -- remember the need for demand and still demand british economy for households and businesses is very important? and will he not lose sight? >> well, of course i agree we

need to make it i think you meant partly comes from confidence. and confidence comes from economic stability. and if we think of the difference between a statement that i've been able to make debate in the house of commons and the kind of emergency statements that emergency budget cuts, that many finance ministers have had to announce the last two weeks, then i think you have in a nutshell the reason why we did the right decisions last year to get ahead of the curve and why so many other countries are now trying to catch up. >> does the chancellor say how exactly plan to control his team at when they're already offices, houses and shops which are standing empty in my constituency? >> of course we need to fill vacant properties but we also need to about new development. and i think all of us want to protect areas of outstanding natural beauty in our country. i had against interested in the greenbelt. but, frankly, the planning decisions are so lengthy in this country and so bureaucratic and

so complex that almost every commission in the last decade to look at the british economy has identified plan as an obstacle to further economic development. and i think we need to get, simple by those plans and control. so yes, we protect the countryside but we also get decisions in reasonable time that allow development to take place. so that's what we've introduce the presumption of sustainable development into the planning system. >> jeffrey brown. >> how can the chancellor -- given there are four and half million employed to justify people to each of them, or a court of them took an extra person, don't have a huge dent on the unemployment rate. >> of course small businesses are the engine of job creation in our country. and as i say, 500,000 new jobs have been created in the private sector over the last year. that is the second highest rate of job creation in the g7.

in terms of specifically helping small businesses, we avoid the increase of small business taxation which labor party put in last budget, he shakes his head. he did know but that was an increase come in small business taxation. we cut it. and it also introduced support for the exports come exports a small businesses, a central part of the strategies developed by stephen green, to help small businesses export. and, of course, i prefer to the agreements with banks which are now starting to see an increase in lending to businesses that sent it wasn't happening last year. >> chris williams and. >> the frontline economy and inflation set at 5%. the stagflation looms large. so can the chancellor to help the house why he is so wedded to crack tea party economics when he is plenty failing the country?

>> sounds like the shadow chancellor wrote that question. [laughter] let me, let me repeat what i have said early. actually, the proposal put forth in the speech of george washington is for deficit reduction in the united states of the same pace and at the same scale as the one we are pursuing and britain. and that is because in america, they have to do with the budget deficit. >> thank you, mr. speaker. europe is making increasing demands on a pension parks, and iverson made demands on our vat but is it not time had a debate on how much? he said economic would be disastrous if it broke up. but surely they should be a debate. 75,000 have signed a petition but surely this ought to be a debate. >> we do debate the european budget in this parliament, and

quite lively debate. we are fighting hard to freeze in real terms, freeze the european budget. not just for next year but for the coming new financial perspective from 2014. and we have enlisted a number of allies i think across europe now. there is an understanding with very tough decisions at home of public expenditure at almost every european, in every european member state. we need to give a control on the european budget. >> the momentum for growth in u.k. economy has clearly not run. i'm glad he's going to make announcement about growth in the autumn. as the plans for those we take the imf you that if there is a prospect of a lengthy period of weak growth ahead, should doing to consider temporary tax cuts? >> well, of course we bear in mind advice from the i f. and others. but they make it clear that that is not their scent of you at the moment. they were very -- they asked themselves, the very specific questions. and they say this but the

weakness in growth and rising inflation raises the question whether it is time to adjust macroeconomic policies. the answer is no. strong fiscal consolidation is underway and remains a central. imf article for report published on the first of august. >> recently the u.k. has been highest per capital exporter in the world. vital to future growth. what action is a government taking to ensure we can continue to compete locally for services on a level playing field, particularly in the european union? >> the first thing i would say is wow it's not all the economic data has been encouraging recently, actually the services index for the united kingdom and in the last couple of weeks was actually one of the, i think the strongest in europe. and gives us some cause for optimism in that sector. i agree with him that we want to maintain our competitiveness. and we want to export more to

you, i think the agenda should be much more but complete a single market, implementing things like the services which just sat on the too difficult to handle shelf for far too long. this is the agenda we need to get the european union focused on. [inaudible] factory of divided in my constituency. they like many of the construction projects companies up and down the country are very, very worried about the prospects for immediate economic growth. particularly in the light of public procurement cuts. what i would like to ask the chancellor is, what is he going to do to stimulate demand and growth? what personas are you going to do in the very near future? so that we can create and safeguard jobs in the private sector. [inaudible] >> the first thing i would say is, in the spending review we

actually sat capital budgets which were higher than the ones set out by my predecessor, the chancellor of the exchequer of the last labour government. government. cicely capital spending budgets are higher than they would've been under the plan that she stood in the last election. when it comes to getting the construction section moving, and that is precisely what we are attacking issues like the planning delays that have been difficult it is why we made a number of tax changes in the budget to help the construction sector. the construction index was also positive in the last couple of weeks. and i would just say to her, it is not possible when you're running behind such a definite energy 20 to the banning of fiscal consolidation plans, to seek out there in the work from money to borrow. that would lead higher interest rates, markedly higher interest rates but look at interest rates in spain and italy at the moment. we know the higher interest rates to particular damage to

the construction sector. >> tobias ellwood. >> allowed us to keep our aaa rating, unlike some other countries like the united states. and possibly now france. of the chancellor say what would happen if france did lose its aaa rating in regards to e.u. stability funds? and the ability for eurozone bail outs to continue in the future? >> my honorable friends asked a good question, which has been asked in the markets at the moment i have to say one of the causes of instability in the last couple of weeks has been loose comments from finance ministers on issues such as debt. so i will take the fifth and not comment. >> jeremy corbin. >> does the united states have any concerns about the power of the credit rating agency that is him and at a whim can cause disasters on smaller a comments

to increase interest rates, lead to public spending cuts and lead to devastation for many poor people's lives? does not think it is time to report under some kind of accountable control? >> well, it might surprise the honorable gentleman to say, ashley i agree with at least part of what you say. we have concerns about the way the credit rating agencies have operated, and that's why we've been heart of european discussions against european rules on credit rating agencies in place. and i think they are appropriate. where i disagree with him is to blame all of what's happening on credit rating agencies the credit rating agencies, however imperfect are trying to give market investors some idea of the credit worthiness of countries and india companies. and the truth is this. did not lead to spending cuts. the reason we have had to take spending cuts is this country is currently spending close to 50% of gdp on public expenditure.

that is far higher than the historic average under conservative and labour governments, and that is why we are having to act. we are doing it because with a record budget deficit, the highest in our peacetime history. and highest energy 20. >> mark spencer. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the chancellor made reference to murder and and an agreement with the banks. but is he aware that these banks are double counting their lending by forcing businesses to convert overdraft into long-term growth? i have a business in macon stages want to expand, who want to take a more staff, and they cannot do this because not only for banks nothing helpful, they are being obstructive. >> i'm very happy to look at the specific constituency case that he mentions, 11 look into the details of that. and get back to them with an

answer. [inaudible] forecasting even higher unemployment and more jobs will be lost. the government wants policies. they are putting new work obligations. [inaudible] not all of them will. and, therefore, really wrong that the people who have been doing all they can to find work, and so helpless, the loss of their benefits. can the chancellor speak to the effect of this? these obligations should be lifted? >> first of all, if i might correct the honorable lady. the obr are not forecasting rising unemployment. they aren't forecasting falling.

i reminder have the money private sector jobs have been great over the last year. but let me give directly with your point about social security. the welfare system is a policy trap that is discouraging people from working. and people on benefits face incredibly high marginal tax rates, if they seek work. that is why my secretary, my right honorable friend in work and pension has my full support seeking major reform of the welfare system so that we incentivize people into work. and i think it's one of the most important reforms this country is undertaking. >> given our country's debt, it's reassuring the price of the government borrowing has fallen to the lowest level since the last liberal government. how much more expensive, how much more expensive would government borrowing mean if our interest rates have gone the same way as those in other parts

of your? >> it would have been of course ruinous. not just ruin is for individuals but also ruined his for the government. one of the largest governments things i've inherited unfortunately is debt interest. we are raising taxes in order to pay our international credit. it is now in the forecast to rise sadly over the parliament because as we reduce the deficit and that's what it so important to try to get debt falling by the end of the parliament. so it would, of course any reduction in our guild is good for the government. and it saves us money as well. >> can the chancellor explain why he -- [inaudible] >> the office of the budget responsibly makes its independent fiscal forecasts, which is one of the great, i think one of the great policy

developments of this government that's been created by an independent body. they would be making its autumn forecast in the usual way. >> the chancellor rightly mentions the issue about the doha round and about trade. trade is something that permeates every single aspect of governments growth agenda. i just wonder whether the chance would like to comment on whether he believes that the g20 really appreciates how crucially important releasing trade and ensuring greater free trade at this particular moment in the global economic crisis? >> well, i think the honorable friend is right. i think the significance of this is it is therefore the countries of the world to seize today this month, next month, if you're looking around the world for something, in very short order, increased global demand, it is sitting there in the doha round

i hope to make progress in the g20. it will be the leading aspect of making progress in the g20. we have some good i -- good allies. there are both obstacles. >> mr. speaker, is it to we have been used, why are we seeing significant growth in the value of families? >> as i say, make it a very simple policy not to comment as previous chances have decided also to do on the value of sterling. i don't propose to break that commitment today. >> in terms of the steamers to the british economy, what effect does a -- will be the effect increase borrowing which we didn't have an impact on increase mortgage rates, demented people up and down the country? what would be the aggregate

impact, say, over vat? >> of course my honorable friend is right that there's a very significant monetary stimulus in place with these very low market interest rates. and, of course, the official rate. and both of those would go up, almost certainly in the case of the market come and probably indicates of the monetary policy. and that is why this talk of more fiscal standards, alone in the world. this debate is really happening almost alone in the labour party of the united kingdom. it's very difficult to find an opposition in where in europe that is arguing for less than reduction, coming off the published plans of government. and as i say, the shadow chancellor ashley turned out that one of these meetings and put forward his proposal i think you'd be laughed out of the meeting. [inaudible] join me in saying our best

wishes to the officers injured last evening. of his statement come and ask him, with 11% coming off the stock market, the british values, this is not an impact in many, many pensioners. what's he going to do about it? >> well of course the stock market falls to affect pension investments, and, indeed, other equity investments that people have. our stock market has fallen, not as much of some, but nevertheless it has fallen. he says why is that. it's because of the global lack of confidence in governments abilities to deal with their deficits. and the reason i shall we've not seen the turbulence in our bond market is precisely because we have got at least a credible deficit reduction plan. and i might know, mr. speaker, it's been over an hour since i've been answering questions. and our almost since the shadow chancellor said we needed and

that labour party a plan. has one single labour mp got up and proposed one single component of deficit reduction plan. know, they have not. >> the fact that over the last year we have seen the private sector create four times more jobs than has been lost in the public sector does my right of what the friend agree with me, is it a better approach to job creation and the overreliance on the public sector? >> my on the front is absolutely. first of all i should take the opportunity which i didn't take on responses last question. to praise the work of the police who have shown outstanding bravery in the last few days. and my thoughts go out to the member to the injured officers.

he's right, that surely we have learned something from the last decade, which is relying on and sustainable housing great, unsustainable government spending, unsustainable bank lending is not a model of growth that this country can pursue. again we got to get office countries addiction to debt. and an addiction to debt not just in government but in banks and in household. that is what we're doing. it is a difficult adjustment that many western economies are having to go through. unfortunate for us, we were the most enthusiastic participants. it is a typical adjustment here in the u.k. >> does he agree with recommendations that he said -- [inaudible] >> we are in active discussions as he well knows with all the parties in wales, and with the

welsh government. discussing what further powers might be default to the welsh assembly, including fiscal powers which might have a role in economic development. i don't want to preempt that debate, but the fact that we are compared to engage in shows we're doing this this in good faith. >> mr. neal carmichael. >> given the credibility the coalition government has worked with deficit reduction program, and also low interest rates, does he think that kind of message would be appropriate to encourage the same competition making swift and strong across the european eurozone? >> i think we have got ahead of the curve. and as a say i'm not going to -- the limit having to come to the apartment and announce emergency budget cuts because they didn't get ahead of the curve. i think it is important for the

euro zone countries and, indeed, all country to fiscal credibility. there are many good examples in the eurozone of countries that have done that, and we are part of that act. [inaudible] >> can i say to the chance of people to my constituency, mass unemployment -- can ask the chance to win since to do to in my constituency? >> i would make this observati observation, that its own every labour government in history that has -- [shouting] >> isn't it the case the better way to the hard-pressed families, job seekers, and pensioners mentioned by all members of the house that are

getting on with the business of trying to make savings their own budget, their families income, that they need to see a stable economy in order to make sure that they are eventually maintain? >> well, my honorable friend is right. what we are able to provide is that stability in the government debt market which is lacking sadly as other government debt markets. but i think all of us now need to rise to the challenge of removing the obstacles to growth. elamin confronting some vested interest, even potentially some trade unions. but is actually essential that this country wakes up to the competitive pressures of the modern will, to competitive pressures to countries like china, brazil and others present to us. and get that private sector growing in a way that will create sustainable jobs that were so lacking in the last 10 years. >> lester government borrowing pay 25 pounds than lower anticipated.

can you give us an explanation, chancellor? >> as i already explained, we have an independent office -- i was pretty tempted to say that the and was the previous chancellor knew that he didn't want to have to downgrade his foreign forecast before the general election so recorded kitchen sink the borrowing of the forecast a year before to make sure he was able to show a reduction just before the general election. ..

>> the problem with american references at the moment in this debate. i fink the point i would say to my honorable friend is that actually some of the asset sales that we have proposed have indeed undertaken a review receipts to invest in the new infrastructure or a particular industry, and of course, we've got to deal with them on the case by case basis, but the spending reviews did set out how we were going to use some of the asset sales for future investments. >> pamela nash? >> mentioned in a statement earlier the gross forecast for this country five times since he took office. how does the chancellor say that and that is an economic haven? >> bye quoting the the governor of england, and she said that --

they appointed this, governor of the bank of england. what the governor of the bank of england said is the u.k. has done what it can in terms of putting major conditions in place to assure the rebalancing and recovery. we have incredible fiscal plan which many countries do not come in and we do. that's what he said yesterday. >> james? >> thank you mr. speaker. he adopted to the debt funded cut that would have an impact upon the u.k. aaa credit rating. >> i think a multi-billion dollar increase in our deficit would undermine market confidence in the u.k., would lead to an immediate, probably within minutes, and interest rates the what mean higher effective mortgage rates for businesses and for families picks, and it would be one of

the things that would take off the recovery. >> i was pleased to visit the energy services in my constituency tuesday. a company that invested 20 billion pounds to meet transition pieces for the offshore when the industry. they are frustrated and the disadvantage they have that germany and other european countries have by its own. with the chancellor do something to help the british industry in sure the wind farm by british help hundreds of jobs and get the economy moving again? >> we are seeking to develop a domestic green energy business of which it sounds as if the company that he speaks to is a good example. i hope they by british products like wind turbines because they are the best in the world come and to help that company make the best products in the world we have to trade competitive business components because the

competition from the likes of germany is so strong. and i would also say that some of the decisions that have been taken on our energy policy has provided some stability that allows investment in that renewable energy technology. >> and drew curious mix before mr. speaker. that's one of the regions the last ten years lost private sector jobs on the public sector. our way back to the manufacturing -- can i ask the chancellor to look very closely at things like the carbon for pricing and putting the wings and perhaps more could he look very seriously at [inaudible] by next year? demint first of all i completely agree with him about the need to make progress on the planning reforms for the reasons that he said. that does mean in difficult positions and taking on pressure

groups but i think that is absolutely right and the planning of reforms we make deutsch into account the need to preserve our natural environment the bridge toll is something i'm very familiar with because of the member who is a tireless campaign on this and the treasury is conducting an economic study to the effects of the bridge tolls, and there will be reporting at some point in this parliament. >> dr. blackmon? >> i congratulate the chancellor for recognizing there's a link between what happened in the global economy and the u.k. economy. in the light of this can he say what it's going to take to ensure the problems that the u.s. economy and the eurozone do not need to further downward pressure on u.k. economic growth?

>> chancellor? >> unfortunately i can't, to the to make the u.k. not affordable to those events elsewhere in the world but of course there's a global connection to it i would draw this distinction between what i am saying and what my predecessor, the previous prime minister says. i'm not saying britain has been blameless in the way it's handled its economy in the last decade or so. [laughter] we were the most enthusiastic participant of a global debt and as a result of the more difficult adjustments. >> roger williams. >> recent reports have shown that the economy has the capacity to grow and grow quickly if it has the right conditions. will the chancellor confirmed that in the state on the growth -- plan for growth those conditions will be met and the economy can play its part in approaching the national

finances? >> well, the first, but i would say to my friend, is we recognize the specific need for the economy. it's one of the specific strands in the second phase of the growth review, and i think one of the key -- i know something of the constituencies -- one of the absolute keys to the rural economic development is the infrastructure world and which i think opens up all sorts of business opportunities in what has previously been regarded as a remote places, and i think that is why we are right to be investing in a rural broadband across the u.k.. >> dr. alan white head. >> but we took the opportunity first to repudiate the office of budget responsibility so growth with 46 billion additional borrowing requirements, and what additional cuts is he planning in order to avoid that outcome? >> i think the honorable

gentleman says two things, one is the office of budget responsibility is independent. i have to say if it's going to work as a permanent institution, it is going to need the support of the offical opposition, and i hope that's forthcoming not just in the latter support but also in the spirit, which is there is not a constant demand for the chancellor today to provide their own fiscal forecast. so there will be the first point i would make. the second point i would make to the honorable gentleman is as i say, we have put in place this credible deficit-reduction plan. we have heard from the chancellor of the beginning of the session that labor needed an incredible deficit reduction plan as well. not a single member including him has proposed a single pound of spending cuts in this session. and i think until labor party gets that credible plan that

will not really be able to pass a sensible debate. >> george freeman. >> as my honorable friend seen the data that none of the showings of the private sector four times more than the sector has lost but also britain is now second in the g20 league of net job creation; doesn't that show that the strategy is working and that the shadow job growth is out of touch and hasn't learned the government role you can't borrow your way out of a debt crisis? >> will, he has a history and the golden rules and they don't usually turn out to work. but my honorable friend is right. my honorable friend is right that we are seeing job creation. we are not removed the complacent by that. we are working extremely hard seeking to improve the competitiveness and making sure it's able to export and invest. that is the model of growth this country has to pursue. >> thank you mr. speaker.

the last nine months have been planned to present in the proceedings in the nine months it was 2.1%. many have been about the growth and economic and regeneration. if we continue to see growth to this nature either flat line will the chancellor look again and will he be looking at policy that stimulates growth? >> wealthy only thing i've heard from the party opposite which by the we presided over the deepest recession since the 1930's -- the only thing knife heard is a complaint every time any proposal was put forward to cut the public expenditure. we just heard that earlier today. i have not heard any growth policy as she puts it from the labor party. i just heard opportunistic opposition to everything this government is doing that a credible deficit-reduction plan. the chancellor then is going to produce a credible medium-term

fiscal deficit plan let's hear it. >> i thank the chancellor and the 52 backbench you have questions. we come now to the main debate.

the association for unmanned vehicle systems international is hosting its convention here in washington this week. yesterday afternoon, participants talked about the various uses of fun and technology including in japan recently following the tsunami and earthquake and after the oil spill in the gulf of mexico. this is about an hour. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. thank you for coming. welcome to the national press

club an afternoon news maker. my name is peter ryckman, former u.s. information foreign service officer now free-lance writer, editor and media consultant and member and former vice chair of the press club newsmaker committee. introducing the newsmakers let me make the ritual announcements this newsmaker is being recorded as they all are and members can access the audio files through the website, club membership and things like that commandos' can purchase a copy of the audio file and the c. d. howe from the club broadcast operations center and the phone number there is 202-662-7510 and the e-mail is boc@press.org. second, turn off any of these things you might have. i will set the example here.

there is upcoming newsmakers and luncheon speakers we hope you can come to some of those they are all on the web site, which is press.org. plenty of material related to this afternoon's news maker and i see most of you have already. finally, if you didn't sign in as you came in, please sign up when you leave. our newsmakers this afternoon as you know our specialists on unmanned vehicle systems, or uvs orie term i understand is not a favorite one, drones. not sure why that is what i have a suspicion and i'm sure the speakers can explain that if they are asked. our speakers are retired marine general duncan hines, vice president of the division to my immediate right. if i've got this right here, retired air force for charlie dean who is my immediate left,

air force ricky thomas obviously is not retired, global hawk functional manager and on the far right, mr. john priddy. gentlemen, welcome. we are glad to have you here and i also want to welcome back the person who originally suggested this newsmaker and did most of the work in arranging it, melanie. where are you? she is out working somewhere. a senior communications manager of the association for the unmanned vehicle systems across the river in arlington. there you are. thank you. there she is. [applause] i'm sure everybody knows in the room the news makers are here and some live in the area but others dhaka and are attending the 2011 show at the d.c. convention center august 16th and 19th and products of the organizations are used on display and in some cases not

just for military purposes but also for civil and first response applications. one example of this is more of rahman uvs which is used not only in afghanistan but also to assist the aftermath of the nuclear reactor situation in japan. the newsmaker topic today and again as you know is beyond drones, what you didn't know about the unmanned vehicle systems. melanie referred to this in drones 101. to me that would be an advanced course. after the news makers speak they will take your questions. please come give your name and affiliation and say to whom your question is addressed. when you do have a question if you will give me a signal i will try to call on you as many as time permits. finally, to repeat if you have not already done so, please when you came in, out when you leave.

thank you. general heinz, i think we set your the first speaker and you can call on the rest of them. >> first of all, thank you for this opportunity. i'm a retired major general in the marine corps and i have fond memories of this location and hope some of the dialogue will be just as interesting as it was during my speech 18 days. i'm the vice president for the maritime systems at irobot at irobot specializes in ground and underwater robots not exactly the jerome category we are going to talk about but i want to talk about what we are doing in the experiences we have had. how do you go down? i did that. >> i.t. folks, all right. >> it looks like we are going to need a class on how to advance

to the next slide. the down arrow didn't seem to be doing it. okay, good. so let me first talk about the robot experience we've had at irobot. for almost ten years now we've been reacting to different national responses. we have packbots going into the timeframe just after 9/11. we've had a number of different agencies that use our robots for different defense and law enforcement. more recently in the gulf of mexico we deployed an underwater robot that was actually providing a means to track the oil plume's beneath the surface. and then finally, we have robots that actually went to japan for the nuclear reactors. i'd like to talk about the last two incidents for just a minute. first of all the stock of seaglider in the gulf. everyone remembers the deepwater horizon still and the amount of oil, but part of the problem was most of the surface vehicles and the satellites couldn't see the water plumes created underneath, so we had an autonomous vehicle

that can go into the water and operate for up to nine months. it can maneuver around, albeit slowly, but still go down to depths of 3300 feet and be able to provide you all kinds of information to the water column it happens to be traveling. in this particular case we didn't have that the time to select a carbon sensor to detect oil so we used in instruments typically used for biomasses and we used a chemical signature will to actually do the oil detection. it was very successful and the doctor who had overseen the project there frequently cited not only the utility which stayed in the water for 90 days, but also the new science that we had the instant terms of being able to use different sensors to do carbon detection. most recently was the deployment that went into fukushima. swa deployed a total of four robots, two of the 30-pound class robots and two of the 3300-pound robots to the devastation site within a week after the disaster.

they said six employees that were there to provide assistance to assemble the robots and more importantly, to provide the training required for the operator to be able to view it. our robots for the first ones into the reactor sell. the actually performed important operations. the outer door for the unit one had to be opened by human but afterwards the radiation was so high that human couldn't operate in that environment, so the robot was the one that opened the inner door and provided the access to unit one. we provide several -- i'm going to show you some video that walks you through that in just a second -- briefly let me try to narrate some of that video for you. i believe it is running. so this is provided by tepco. and it doesn't look like it is going to run.

here we go. now you see the devastation site that was actually at fukushima. access was a sycophant problem in terms of the amount of debris spread around the reactor. april 17th was the first arrival. this was the to packbots opening the door in the reactor providing the first glimpses that were provided into this particular unit, you that three for the radiation levels. there was no power, so the robots or operated in tandem to provide the light source to be able to see in the reactor as well as perform initial readings. you see the view of the operators looking at the outer -- these are tepco operators who learned how to operate these robots within a day so they could actually get a first look, and they're actually scanning the video seeking for the first time the amount of debri that has occurred inside of the reactor cell. his initial operations on the 26 of april. you see now we've not only

provided the capability but they actually used a strap on radiation sensor that you see in the corner to measure the radiation levels and some police skew the video camera from the robot to be able to see what the levels were. on june 6th we provide the first indication going into unit one of the radiation levels that were seen deutsch to the steam uprising. in these levels we saw radiation levels of over 4,000 mike chris evert's. to put that into perspective, 4,000 micros for a human being means death in 90 minutes. this was the highest level of radiation detected to date. we have since seen radiation levels of 6,000 micros and 10,000 micro's. some of it external to the actual radiation cell. as a very significant radiation levels and part of a lesson out of that is many designs are not

appropriate for those levels of radiation. but the robots still function today. >> finally, we are showing you what we call the rumba war years of one of the problem is the tiberi collection so you get a lot of radiation just from the dust that has accumulated in the cell said they used a manipulator arm which they made up a vacuum cleaner to actually go into an operator of this. of one robot providing individual pictures and the other robot actually performing this week of operation. since the time that the had actually done this they had 20 to 30% reduction in radiation levels within the container, allowing humans to get farther and farther into the containment cell.

okay, back to play. so, relative to the operations for the robots and disasters this to overarching premises and those are simply that robots are better at places that are hard to get access to come and the other one is that they are better for people when you don't want to put them at risk. so it's basically the to heart problems are dangerous. but what i would submit to you is that there are less obvious reasons. robots can actually be more economical than disastrous situations and much better suited to the mission, particularly with human assistance, and the example i would give that a 300-pound class robot with a human being can provide a lot of the mechanical functions, the mechanical lifting capability that humans me be incapable of doing in a rescue operation but the robot can provide assistance for curious if you have a great union of the robots and the humans in these disaster scenarios. with those though, number of

challenges, and the art dillinger is not just associated with robot operation but in the disaster itself. almost immediately you have language problems in different locations to be able to communicate with the folks that area access issues as well as training. overcoming those issues are important. additionally it is simply understanding the definition of what they want the robot to do and the definition is paramount to being able to pick the right kind of equipment that can survive one and the firemen that it needs to do in that the right communications protocols and the right training. so the suitability of the systems to that environment but it's not as the robot. if you try to operate in these hard environments, very harsh, the sensors you want to adopt have to be able to operate and survive, any strap on customization you perform as well as communications protocols and so with that speaks to is the need for a very flexible and robust robot design that also includes options for communications protocols.

finally is the basic premise that you have to go with what you have to read a number of organizations will injury and up on the fly new solutions to try to solve current problems, and those are very time critical and so it's important that there be a premise that you go with what you have and resist the notion you can create something on the fly of the new solution. so the key points we have had over a number of different opportunities to perform is one come understanding the mission that it's that time we spend up front to understand what the requirements are in the local area, and sending the right people with the right equipment. the second is the robust of the design having a family of the vehicles that operate on the same kind of chassis with the same kind of control and some kind of communications protocols allows you to have a more robust solution across the requirements. many of those are able to at bat to mission changes. the one thing you learn in these

environments is that change will happen and new mission needs will crop up and the ability to adapt new sensors on to the mission requirements allow for this trap on customization as critical. finally, training and rehearsals of salute the essentials. you cannot go into these kind of situations without having rehearsed it with the folks that need to perform that mission. a business relationship and this bearings are also critical and some of the body to reach back to your engineering staff and experts on the subject matter. believe me, irobot didn't know a lot about radiation but we learned a lot on the way. so, the conclusions or a robust flexible design of the robot that is easily reconfigure all at the disaster site is keep, the use of the common software architecture of across all platforms allow for more efficient user training. the platform that has a variety of communications protocol including the old wires essential to the operations.

so, having the experience, having robots that are operating in years and very harsh environments was one of the building foundations to understand what is the mission critical need and to have these kind of robust robots. once you have that establishing the business relationship is critical to be able to support that ongoing and remembering again you go with what you have. so the message out of this is picking the right partner with the right equipment really matters. and i guess we will save the questions for the end. charlie, i think that you're up. [applause] i am charlie, director of business development in the unmanned systems group in north america and i served a career in the army of which i'm very proud

of. we were on many different technologies providing solutions to our customers and one of those areas i want to talk to you about today is what we do in robotics. there's a revolution going on today. revolution and the systems of the air assets or ground assets can provide a lot of different customers around the world and surface assets and underwater assets as well. the revolution has been purchasing the last several decades but really the last decade we all know the reasons for the advancement in the last decades. the use of robots and saving people's lives has increased dramatically. today over 12, 13,000 have been defeated in combat by robots, and for this purpose today first responders around the world are using robots to increase the distance between their operators

and the dangerous environments in which they have to operate. qinetiq provides a world class technology for many types of customers in the world of the unmanned vehicles our platforms range in scale from several pounds up to eight to 10,000 pounds. we'll also talk about our role in fukushima in the sizable platforms and the types of roles they play as well. to get us into the first responder mission for robots today is this one that came out of the swat team earlier this summer and a woman had barricaded herself and her house and was using a high-powered rifle to engage in local swat team and they deployed a qinetiq north america dragon rosner 20, through a window in the house. the robot would be able to put cameras on clubwoman, the swat

team could see what she was doing in she locked herself in the room luckily with the robot in the room. then she locked herself in a closet and the robot was still able to provide camera feedback to the swat team of her activity by looking under the door. the swat team was unable to get into the house and safely get the woman out of the house without any people being injured during the process. so that is the key to the unmanned systems is to add a distance and safety to current operations. qinetiq north america has over 4700 for robots deployed around the world, serving domestic, international first responder customers as well as military customers. it to see the type of customer that we service, power companies, police departments, fire departments, the fbi, the atf, homeland security, mining

companies for rescue operations to all u.s. military branches and many foreign militaries. one example i like to highlight as the general just did is our collective role in on mant system support to the people of japan. march this year we all remember there was a terrible earthquake that occurred in japan. that earthquake and the series of earthquakes after that led to a horrendous tsunami that smashed into the east coast of japan, creating a devastating result due to not only the actions of the earth shaking but waves such as pictured here building of to 100 feet in the air. thousands and thousands of people lost their lives, a terrible damage to the infrastructure of the coastal areas of japan. and the earthquake continued. so it wasn't just one earthquake as we remembered.

it was many. this map shows you the size of the earthquakes that were occurring and the volume that were occurring. on that date and shortly thereafter, if you study this, you can see that on this picture here we are showing really six-point go and hire earthquakes. there were even smaller earthquakes. a was a terrible time. the day after the earthquake, qinetiq north america asked what can we do to support the people of japan and we reached out that saturday to the prime minister's office in tokyo and offer our support. they quickly took us on our offer and examined our capabilities of different types of platforms. again, we have platforms that go across a wide variety of sizes, shapes and missions from able to carry multiple types of sensors. and they selected three different types of robots. primarily for use as with the

irobot product sat fukushima to read in the days that followed, we all watched the meltdown of fukushima in horror as we saw the police basically fall to its knees with a terrible outcome of the reactors. humans, japanese very brave workers went in and immediately started providing on hand support without the initial help of robots. robots luckily for our companies were on their way. you can see here that the workers dressed up within eight minutes the radiation levels were what they would be getting in the typical years. it's terrible. this is what fukushima looked like before the earthquake, and of course the ocean waters what it looked like a couple days later. robots were sent in as the general explained, and i will show you some examples for

mapping, for cleanup, radiation detection, for general reconnaissance and awareness of what was going on in the areas. the three types of robots the japanese selected from us in the tokyo electric power company went from the dragon runner 20 which is basically a 20-pound robot to our talon robots which we have thousands of our round of world today up to the bobcats platform, as we have a close partnership with bobcats. bobcat donated for free the bobcats to the people of japan. kinetic north america donated the assets that we have to the people of japan. this was not without a contract, this was all about helping fellow mankind. we moved people into japan and brought in the equipment shortly thereafter. of course the bobcats took a couple more days to plan the shipping of 8,000-pound

platforms. they don't fit into the suitcase hold on the airplanes you and i ride. those in the country immediately started training the japanese. here's a photograph of us working with the tokyo electric power company operators. it's interesting as new groups of operators came a day after day to train, the operators got under. was interesting. as the employees of the company learned about how to operate robots, which are very simple to operate, they realized that perhaps this is a young person's sport. who use the xbox 360 controller to drive the bobcats and the talon and the dragon runner. and that is kind of -- joe talked about translation -- that is a translation device right there. you can play with an x box 360 controller in any language. here you see workers practicing driving the robots when they can't see the robots. so in this case they were at a training facility behind a

concrete wall preparing to drive the bobcats in location out of view of the operator. so they were practicing using the cameras and using the monitors on the controllers in for a remote manner. we also learned to tiemann the robots. in this case the bobcats operator and the talon operator, this is the carbon in the bottom picture and the larger bobcats. the operators were working together, training together to use their cameras, to share the imagery coming back from the platforms and to help one another as they were opening doors, lifting up tiberi, moving debris. as you can see from the calamity of the site, the bobcat in lots of ways became the most useful of the robots we sent over because of the size. all of them could get in different places in the different types of space. but the size of the bobcat and the chaos of the site made the bobcat able to move a lot of

that and allowed them to get access to train beyond the piles of debri translator of the year was the xbox 360 hand controller photographs, the last sighting that we had our robot as they went in to the hot zone were ordered up onto the tepco trailers and took the talon and the dragon runners in separate vehicles and headed off to the site. they've been working on the site since the latter part of march and continue to do so today. more pictures came out from tepco not long ago showing the robots working. there's fukushima. the key message here is not only how one can respond after an event takes place but how can

one prepare before an event takes place. and it is easy to talk about preparation. of course the hard part is to act and do the preparation. so we spent a lot of time teaming up with our customers, getting to know their needs, listening to what they do in the work environment to what they need from the unmanned systems companies like ours provide. we work with them to convince them to prepare things. if you look at the ring of fire around the pacific and all of the volcanoes that make up the ring of fire, it is not hard to imagine that what happened in tokyo, and we know that whole area shakes quite often could possibly happen somewhere else. there are other nuclear power plants around that ring of fire. many of them are now the united states or other types of facilities. so mother nature is troublesome and give this man the

opportunity from time to time to react. the preparation piece is key. we learn that fukushima that the debri from such events can be phenomenal. and one has to then deal with the situation as you find at, go in with assets as you have them. as the general mentioned it's hard to invent new capabilities on the fly as you're going into operations, so you go with what you have. we have robots that already have sensors on them that tied the data to the radios and pass the data back to the controllers so that the operators can be able from those robots. we learned we had to deal with the massive nature of the outcome of those events. they were to prepare organizations that have a need often don't have the budget so we have to work with them to try to find the money so they can be

ready in advance. the robots are key and we have seen this through the military and throughout first responder operations in the last decade. the distance between operators and the dangerous environments for which they have to operate, and fukushima was a great example of that. and a lesson learned from operations in japan that continues to this day those 20-year-olds are the rock stars. they get this technology and they can learn how to use a robot in hours whereas someone my age or so it might take the better part of a day. but in general it's quite fast to the alternative to using the unmanned systems as we have been describing is human exposure. it's not a good alternative so we continue to safeguard personnel. one of our talon has a wide

variety of sensors it carries today used by fire departments around the world and u.s. military. that concludes my presentation. [applause] >> i can't speak without a briefing, come on. sorry, don't know where she hit my briefing. go to the rabbit. here it is. okay. a good. alrighty.

bear with me just for a second. everybody needed a break anyway, right? alrighty. i'm lieutenant colonel rick thomas from the head force division branch a2 also known as the global hawk so i'm going to present to you today what we did with the global hawk in the japanese earthquake. i want to start off by saying of a global hawk, this was in the first time the global hawk operated in humanitarian assistance or disaster relief environments. the first one was actually in the southern california fire of 2007. that happened to be advantageous

the air force base in the northern part could support the fires in southern california. the next year it just so happened we have five years in the northern california area so we supported that, and then also as recently as the haiti earthquake we also supported that. this was the first time the global hawk operated in the pacific theater, and you've already heard a little bit about -- but see if i can make this go here we go. so you already heard the earthquake is devastating but one thing that i want to show here with a slide is the fact that whenever the commanders were trying to plan for the humanitarian assistance they need to know how bad is it? for example are the roads devastated, airports open, railways etc? so they needed a way of getting the people, some of the briefings that you heard here -- i had to get there somehow, so within 21 hours of the

earthquake, global hawk was asked to support the government of japan to find out how large airports located we looked. also how do the cities look, are the real is, what kind of aid and life communication and also what kind of services are available? of course you can't look down and there but we can see definitely of the services are responding and this was asked for by the government of japan said they can get inside on the facilities in order to provide relief. this is being persnickety today. there we go. so, when we looked around the pacific theater understand the global hawk is a high altitude long endurance asset so it's an on mant system what we call rpa remotely piloted vehicle. it was the best one to satisfy those persistent dynamic in in imagery requirements. so we could part the global hawk over japan flying from guam for several hours and then we could

dynamically task it so as the new requirements became evident to aid the workers we could reach casket. so like i said within 24 hours of receipt of that request the global hawk was airborne route to japan. the interesting story is that was one month earlier than we intended for the global hawk to operate because it just arrived and they were doing stand-up and so forth, so the story behind that was an incredible effort because they had to do four things. first to fix the communications we were not preparing to go to japan's we had to figure out how the satellite communications and also fix some things that were not ready. the second is that somebody has to look at all of that imagery and so what we call the exploitation of that imagery. there wasn't a lot of the fleeing around. most devoted to centcom and operations in afghanistan so we had to find somebody to do that. third thing we had to figure out how to task it because i counted the other day 31 major government agencies including the president's office that was asking for an injury, so it needed to be privatized.

finally, we needed to schedule it, the conflict with other things and make sure the global hawk is available. so the global hawk flew 20 missions and you can see here over 500 hours and thousands of images were tasked. i that you are hungry for some of imagery. unfortunately the global hawk is a spy plan similar to the you to so we ask the government what really is that every so i have to talk you through some of the things that we saw. first we parked it quite a bit over top of the nuclear reactors. one of the first as i said the president's office asked for imagery and a status update one of the things is what the status reactors, that is probably not a surprise, but what we were able to do is use the infrared camera on the global hawk to image and see what the temperatures were of those because if we take an image of the temperature of the reactor and then come back the next day and image that again we know we have a problem. now we did that for quite a few

days, actually over 20 different missions and then found that they were stable, meaning that they were very hot as you saw they were not getting any hotter and nuclear reactors take a long time to cool off. the imagery was used also in the maritime mode because all of that debri that washed out to sea we needed to find the plume's because of ronald reagan carrier group was asked to respond. they don't want to say all that into a nuclear active plumer plume we have to find that to help their operations as well. the only gave me ten minutes to brief so i really short year and i asked since you don't know who i am, ten minutes? but supportive of the government -- the fact the global hawk is the first on station because the persistence and range, so it was once we got our 46 reva

degette the global hawk on station and repeat over and over because it carries all of its sensors that range so we are able to stay there and support and also be dynamically retasked because the first level of awareness the government wanted was infrastructure and then the reactors and other pieces and parts such as finding that plume of debri and the oceans of the global hawk focused on the damage and supporting a in a real-time updates as the government and also the ngos asked for. so that's pretty much my briefing in a nut shell and i will turn it over to the final speaker. [applause] select good afternoon. he's coming to sq mi away for the i.t. stuff -- square me away

for the i.t. stuff. [inaudible conversations]

good afternoon. my name is john priddy for the office marine. i happen to live in north dakota and am the director of the national air security operations center. we operate to predators, but more specifically, we have seven nt9's of the border protection and it shortly we should have mine. while we have the aircraft primarily for law enforcement purposes, obviously our residing department of homeland security we have had occasion to fy technologies towards disaster relief and civil support operations. most notably, we've got some imagery, some video from fires. the colonel's initial global

hawk is a nice lead into what i'm going to talk about which is how bad is it? that's kind of a big question when we are talking about civil support and disaster relief, how bad is it in the world we live and where we have limited resources and resource in the them intelligently and speeding aid to those who need it becomes very critical to the decision makers. especially when we are resources limited. we can call up the economics scarcity. an example here is where is the fire? anybody been to a forest fire? it's mostly smoke, not a lot of fire. you don't see the fire and using them entry to look through the smoke is how we are able to help the airline management and the forestry service apply their firefighting skills to were the critical needs of the fire are and not where they are not. very important message here is,

again, resource management. how bad is it? a quick vignette. in 2005i went to katrina and flew a helicopter as part of the growth came out of tucson and we went to assist katrina working with partners at fema and didn't lift a job of water or save a person. instead what we do is we flew fema teams assessing the situation, trying to determine what critical infrastructure exist and how we were going to rush aid and supplies and trucks and vehicles and people to prepare electrical lines and the railway cars and things like that to where the damage was and how bad was it. we would come back at the end of every day and we will sticky tape notes about where the damage was and how bad it was and would be the main supply route and would be the battle plan. and that, on a conference table was what was considered a common operating picture in 2005. i'm going to change a little bit

for a moment to show -- synthetic radar we are able to capture data, send it electronically over a system that was developed by the all center marine on and on class level to a variety of emergency responders and emergency responders are not just the first level responders, they are the planners, the people that run the water department, the people that run the electrical department, department of transportation that handle the roads and the police department. the common operating picture becomes important because the information strangely enough applies to all of them. if i close this will not close? i'm trying to arrow down.

there we go. i got it. i'm smarter than this. licht open? [inaudible conversations] okay. here's north dakota during the floods. this is previous to the floods. you can see it's a very broad scope of the city. it's a common operating victor, you can see the roads, the infrastructure. this has to be 1 meter resolution on a synthetic radar. the fact that the radar gives you a black-and-white image that you can look at like a photograph becomes important because it is common, you can see it and understand it. the other nice part about it is quantifiable, you can measure it. you can see change and trend and that becomes important when it comes to flooding. a flood in this example is a slow moving disaster. if i am a resource manager and i

need to move resources and i only have so much, i only have so many dump trucks i don't want them someplace they are not needed this information using trigger points and knowing in three days the water may reach this area becomes critical to the emergency measures. it's a very rare occuring fema but it becomes important in our world where the cost of the flood becomes expensive knowing when it is going to impact and to what extent it is going to impact becomes very important. we can look at the fact that when it comes to the floods there is overland flooding, not particularly important initially to the roads and schools and infrastructure, but the cost of a bushel of corn goes up by 4 cents, then the ethanol goes up, that's an impact to all of us so that's how we are using a lot of this data. we have flown for the department of bureau of land management

with the fires, and that was kind of an example of using those resources and the electro optical and infrared imagery to determine the fires and tactically move those assets are around in real time. i will tell you what, this -- there we go. big piatt is a unique device so when we paired up with the mq-9, it provides us with a couple of things we could not ordinarily do. one, it allows us to task a scene on and that becomes important when we have people -- when we have people that want to dynamically retask to see something immediately. as we have something that we collect and we use the real time

synthetic actual radar and things we want to see immediately, and that goes back about how bad is it. [inaudible conversations] ..

>> anybody have kids that have wrecked your car? hey, dad, it's really not that bad? you find out your car's in about four pieces? if you'd known it was in four pieces, you'd have been a lot angrier before you got home. you would have changed the dynamic of the situation before you even got back to the house. it's very similar if we know that this flooding is that bad, we can rush those critical needs to them and delay moving assets to areas that are not as important. i think the biggest thing that we've drawn from this is this has been an evolving thing for customs and border protection. initially, it was something we did as an aside, then it became an ever-evolving mission,

something that we became very good at and developed this technology of getting that information to all users on an unclassified level and in the emergency operation centers into the local governments where they could get the information, action it and resource it properly. so it's really been a phenomenal event for all of us at dhsn particular our organization, oam, because each year we've gotten better at this. as the general says, the big one will come someday, and a lot of these are a rehearsal for the big one, whatever it is. and i think the office of air marines is going to be ready for that by being able to apply this technology in a smart manner and bring everybody together so they get a good common operating picture, so they're able to apply resources rapidly and quickly and efficiently. are there any questions?

>> yes, hi. >> yeah, would you -- name and affiliation please? >> yes, i'm -- [inaudible] benjamin with qinetiq. drones for people in pakistan have killed hundreds and hundreds of innocent people. in fact, what some of our figures show is that 50 innocent people are killed for every militant that is killed, and this was also something that -- >> ms. benjamin, if you have a question, ask it to the speaker, please, not to the audience. >> well, i just wanted to pass out a flier. >> no, no fliers, this is not your news conference. >> it's just information, and you can go to qinetiq and see how we are protesting -- >> ask your question, please, ms. benjamin. >> and i wonder what you have to say about the drones that have killed hundreds and hundreds of civilians --

>> all right, let the speakers answer. is your question to any particular speaker? >> anybody who is willing to -- >> all right. anybody want to answer -- >> no, i would really like an answer, please. >> well, you'll get one if they'll give you one. >> why don't you give them a little time. >> well -- >> we have no weaponnized programs. >> anybody? >> global hawk's not weaponnized. >> [inaudible] i was wondering, that was sort of a unique mission for global hawk -- [inaudible] and i was wondering if through that mission you learned of any areas where there's room for improvement with global hawk, if you identified any means of capabilities or enhanced capabilities. >> well, like most of our isr platforms, we are also learning what they're capable of doing. one of the things when they first approach me, can you take temperatures there the global

hawk camera. i said, no, you can tell if it's hot or cold, but actually we found out by taking relative temperature in the area, we could tell what the heat of those reactors are plus or minus ten degrees celsius. and when we're talking about huge temperatures, that was pretty significant. the other key thing is always trying to find out how best to task it because any kind of disaster or any kind of humanitarian -- everyone's rushing in, they're trying to figure out how to prioritize, and the same thing goes for global hawk; who has priority, where should it go, what are are things it needs to do? one good thing about the cameras of global hawk, we can take a wide swath and take a lot of areas. a lot of the smaller systems are going to be in a more isolated area. you'll see just that area versus a global hawk can take up to two kilometers in an area and see what's going on. so -- >> anybody else on the panel want to respond to that question? next question?

yes, sir. jim? >> jim wolf, reuters. [inaudible] i'm wondering if you can bring us up-to-date on any discussions with asian friends and ally on using the global hawk in a kind of, as a shared asset in the region with its costs defrayed by the countries that would -- [inaudible] >> well, i can answer that question. the cost piece is a little bit difficult. there's nothing definitive about sharing. but we do have the need to have regional cooperation and engagement. for example, if something happens in the malacca straits tomorrow which is a major shipping line, we need to be able to share that information to get support, to get air space

to fly over and see what's going on. those discussions have been occur anything piecemeal. now that the global hawk has flown this spring, they're starting to pick up more. >> are there any steps underway to actually create a formal organization that would oversee a cooperative agreement for the use of, the shared use of assets? >> no, not a shared use. we've discussed, different countries have different need, and the global hawk is part of an isr enterprise. so if you say it's just global hawk, there's other things in that as well such as mg-1, mq-9. but, no, nothing formal. >> anyone else want to respond to that one? next question? this gentleman in the blue shirt, and then you, sir. >> jim -- [inaudible] with the global hawk, how far has the air force gotten in correcting some of the

deficiencies identified in the operational reports? the reliability issues and the sensors? >> >> we've made really great strides. understand that the test was a point in time. so we tested that, also, to find out really what are the things that we missed in developing the platform. and since then we've corrected, probably the best one is the 25-volt generator which was having problems causing some of the reliability. that has since been fixed and has operated 6,000 hours without incident. but before we could barely get through 170 hours without some kind of incident having to replace that generator. so great strides, and we're finding the program is being very reliable and a lot of demand for the global hawk. >> yes, sir. >> recently it's become -- >> your name and affiliation? >> oh, ty berry, i'm with -- [inaudible] los angeles. recently, it's become news that the state of israel is using the drones in their attacks on gaza strip, and they're using it as

surveillance, and i'm wondering if are other countries going to be using these drones on their own civilians, and is it going to be used on other civilians like it is in gaza, maybe even here? >> i can't -- well, let me talk about here. after the 2007 fires, we had huge, um, trying to set the stage for you. if you remember, the whole southern california area from sand yea duo up to l.a. was own fire. they were -- was on fire. they were going to shut down the southern california faa -- [inaudible] because fires were approaching. they were going to shut down the whole air space. the riverside command center needed to know where those fires were, how to put those limited resources in those places. we needed global hawk. well, unfortunately, as i said, the global hawk is actually a spy plane. we were delayed because people said you're going to go to jail if you send that thing on u.s. soil.

so we had to go to northern command to get presidential a priewfl. okay, we're not spying, you can use global hawk in this case. what i'm trying to say is we don't willy-nilly throw collection on the united states soil. there's lots of laws and so forth that we're bound to that would prevent us from doing that. >> anybody else to that one? yes, sir. and then this woman in the green tie. you first, sir. >> [inaudible] hi name is -- [inaudible] what was -- [inaudible] >> the major challenge, as i stated, was the fact that it was brand new, and we had only been doing training missions up to that point. one of the communication terminals was broken, we had to very quickly fix that and find all those resources that were going to support the world mission. as i said, the president of the united states said i need information now. this was the only asset that could provide that wide view.

there was no resistance from the government of japan, of course, they were willing to get any kind of support they could to assess the damage and so forth. >> [inaudible] >> i don't have the exact date. i mean, it was 11 march when it happened, and we were flying within 21 hours after the request was sent, so don't know the exact time. >> thank you. >> yes, sir. >> there's been a lot of talk about -- >> name and affiliation. >> oh, i'm sorry. scott fontaine of air force times. there's been talking of using isr assets and prevention response operations, scheming, stuff like that. at least from the air force perspective, is there any doctrine you can formulate on that, and from the industry guides has there been, you know, lots of interest out there in that aspect? >> i'm not real familiar with -- can you repeat that term? >> [inaudible]

it's, essentially, you know, using american assets or other ones for u.n. peace-keeping type stuff. it's kind of now just getting -- i was wondering if there was anything in the air force going on about that. >> i'm not sure that -- that would probably be above global hawk specific. i don't know anything about any doctrine, i don't know if anyone else does. >> anybody else? >> from the -- standpoint, i'm not aware of doctrine. however, many, many of our u.n. brethren use our assets in whatever type of operations they're running, whether peace-keeping operations, combat operations, disaster relief operations, they have unmanned assets today. >> yes, sir. >> john brennan from the hill newspaper. the senate armed services committee has expressed new concerns about the operating and procurement costs of global hawk, and i'm just curious in that especially now in this new budget environment what are you all doing to get both the procurement and the operating costs down, and have you sped up

those earths given -- efforts given recent developments? >> that's a good question. i'll take that, but you guys have got to throw these other guys some questions. the global hawk is brand new, and through the whole development of the program even if you look back at materialed back in the -- dated back in the 2002 time prime, it's complex, and we're not certain how much it would cost. back in those days it was supposed to cost $10 million a copy, but no one knows where that number came from. someone said, well, i think it should cost ten million. and when it didn't cost ten million, we went back to try to figure out who said that, and there was no data behind that. so already the global hawk costs are starting to come down as we realize what things are more reliable, what things we have to replace and what aren't. often like to say that the global hawk will eventually transition to that role. they've had many, many years to figure out the platform that we're flying now is 30 years, the u2 goes all the way back to

the '50s. we just received our first brand new global hawk this year in the latter half of last year, so we're still learning some of those things, but we're already starting to see costs come down. >> how much? >> how much in the cost? >> you said you're coming down. can you give us a ballpark? >> i would say percentage wise it's in the low digits right now, 5-10% starting to come down. but for a billion dollar program, that's -- [inaudible] >> thanks. >> we have time for one more question, but before we do that, if you haven't signed in, when you leave, please, sign out. and next question is, the lady over here. >> i'm very sorry that my one more question is directed to you. [laughter] you just said the operating costs are coming down, but if you look at the procurement numbers -- [inaudible] present budget shows about $2 million less than -- [inaudible] and i'm just wondering why that

is. >> sure. well, what we've discovered, the air combat command estimates, that's what they are, estimates. we go back, the cape goes in and tries to do interviews with people to say how much is this going to cost, and a lot of it is estimates. i don't know how much, how many tires i'm going to need depending on how much operations i'm going to do and so forth. so just the fact that we started flying this march, we're already starting to discover that, okay, we're starting to understand what those costs are. >> that will do it. we're out of time. thank you very much. thank our speakers very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> president obama's traveling to michigan today to talk about technology jobs. he'll be taking a tour of johnson controls, it's an advanced battery facility. you can see live coverage of the president's comments starting at 2:40 eastern on c-span. the president will then travel to new york city to attend two democratic campaign events. live coverage here on c-span2 will continue at 4:30 eastern when we take you to the u.s. institute of peace here in washington for a discussion on u.s. military operations in afghanistan. and tonight on booktv

prime time, american folklore. it starts at 8 eastern with howard means, author of "johnny appleseed: the man, the myth, the american story." at 8:45, michael wallis, and jeff guinn, author of "the last gunfight." this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, we'll visit the office of the around conservativist of the united states -- archivist of the united states. current defense secretary leon panetta recalls his year working in the republican administration of richard nixon, his eventual resignation of his post and his switch to the democratic party. and on the ill-fated anniversary of the bay of pigs, a look at the u.s. in the 50s and

'60s. c-span.org/history. tsa administrator john pistole says intelligence is the best tool in the fight against terrorism. he spoke about the future of transportation security ten years after the 9/11 attacks yesterday at the newseum here in washington. this is about 35 minutes. >> i'm susan bennett, one of the senior vice presidents here at the newseum, and we're pleased once again to partner with gannette and with "usa today" in a series of programs we're having that look at how life has changed in america since the terror attacks of september 11th, 2001. we will never forget that day when four passenger jets were hijacked and used in the worst terrorist attack in our history. two planes were crashed into the world trade center in new york city, another into the pentagon in virginia just across the river from where we sit now, and the fourth plane into

shanksville, pennsylvania, a field nearby. more than 3,000 people died that day, and our lives changed forever. today we want to focus on just one aspect of the change that has impacted millions of americans, and that is the way that we travel; by car, by rail, by boat and most importantly, by air. today we'll talk about the security we we've come to live with, what has worked and not worked and look ahead to the future of what transportation security will be like over the next ten years. for the answers to those questions, you don't have to worry about me, we're going straight to the top. our guest today is john pistole, the administrator at the transportation security administration, better known as tsa. there he oversees a work force of more than 60,000 people who manage the security, operations of more than 450 federalized airports around the country as

well as the federal air marshall service, security for highways, railroads, ports, pipelines, mass transit. john came to the tsa with a wealth of experience in counterterrorism and terrorism. he spent more than 26 years at the fbi where he started as a special agent working his way up through the ranks, and following september 11th, 2001, he was put in charge of the if, bi's expanded counterterrorism program. in 2004 he was named the bureau's deputy director. john has led imnumerable investigations that are high profile, but most recent ones were the attempted times square bombing in new york city in 2010, the attempted christmas day attack on northwest flight 253 in 2009 and the unsuccessful plot against the new york city subway system that same year. we have a lot of territory to cover today and a limited time, but we wanted to reassure the

audience that we're going to leave time for you to ask your questions as well, so when that time comes, we'll ask you to come down to the mics and to give us your name and hometown or your name and affiliation, and we'll let you have your turn at that point. now, i hope you will all join me right now in welcoming john pistole to the program. [applause] john, i know you said your parents were married in 1941, and there are memories, certainly, of the day that was described as that day in infamy by franklin delano roosevelt. certainly our day in infamy was september 11th, 2001. could you share with us, briefly, a little bit of background? where were you that day, and how did you first learn about those attacks? >> well, first, susan, thank you for the invitation here, and it's good to be with the audience here. i was in syracuse, new york, that day as an fbi inspector doing an inspection of our

office there. i'd been at a tv station early that morning to do what we called an outside contact just to see how that fbi office was doing. and then i was actually in a federal judge's office when the first plane hit and, obviously, concerns about that. so i went back to the fbi office and then watched as the second plane hit. >> and what was your role from that point on? >> i had been serving in our boston fbi office, and after that i went back because several of the hijackers had come out of boston, portland, maine, and then boston's logan airport. so i went back to help the investigative efforts there and, eventually, was transferred full time into the counterterrorism division as the fbi changed the paradigm for how fbi investigations were conducted. >> well, we're going to have to leap forward to tsa. i know you spent a lot of time

trying to catch the bad guys, trying to foil the plots. you moved to tsa where it's much more prevent preventive. can you talk about that transition in terms of your life? >> the fbi really changed after 9/11 to become one of prevention to make sure that another 9/11 did not happen and working abroad or across the broad interagency both national security, intelligence community, law enforcement community and then with our international partners. so that had changed in the fbi post-9/11, so the mission at tsa is very similar, focusing on prevention. but also the idea which the department of homeland security and the whole of government focuses on is the resiliency aspects of that in case there is another attack, not a 9/11-type attack, but any type of attack. so are we resilient? the same with natural disasters or anything else. >> there previous had been criticism of the tsa for not having a big enough work force, a work force that was trained

enough, the money to put into the resources that you needed to say that everybody was secure as they traveled. do you think that's the case now? >> i think there are a lot of ways the tsa and the department of homeland security and the fbi and other agencies can go about doing their work to provide the most effective security in the most efficient way. so i've been at tsa a little over a year now, and what i have found are that there are multiple layers of security in place. so what people see at the checkpoint is just one of those multiple layers. and as we try to focus on more of a risk-based, intelligence-driven approach is to use information if people are willing to share with us about themselves, their travel whatever it may be so we can make better judgments that may be able to facilitate the physical screening part of it because we know more about them. >> obviously, in the year since you have been here, the tsa's been in the headlines, and one of the issues has been the use

of the more intrusive patdowns and the use of the body scanners. there's been a lot of talk back and forth about whether this was an unnecessary violation of privacy, or was this something that was absolutely needed to guarantee air security. have you changed things? how have you changed things, and have you learned from the dialogue that went on over that controversy? >> yeah. i think the context for all of this is important because we know the terror is keep adapting and evolving to try to defeat our security. so we've gone from the 9/11 type attack to the shoe bomber to liquids plot involving public bid -- liquids, and this happens to be the five-year anniversary today of when the british authorities arrested nearly 20 people, far from a plot, just a few were actually convicted earlier. and then we saw toner packages

being used as bombs and, of course, the underwear bomber. we have information now that's been put out about even terrorists going to the extreme of having surgically-implanted bombs that they would then carry as a suicide bomber. so that's the context for everything that we do. so all these multiple layers of security are designed to provide the best possible security while respecting the privacy and civil liberties of everyone who travels. and it is a balance there that we need to and try to strike every day. so as referring to the patdowns and the advanced imaging technology, those give us the best opportunities, for example, of detecting such as what was used on christmas day, a nonmetallic device about this big, that thick in, you know, the man's underwear. and that's very difficult to detect. he dose through a metal de-- he goes through a metal detector, and it doesn't alarm because there's no metal in that device.

so our focus and awareness is there may be other people that the terrorists are trying to use in that same scenario, so we have to make sure we're doing everything we can using the best training, tactics, techniques enabled by the best technology to provide that best possible security. >> it's a real judgment call, isn't it, for the individual tsa agents in many cases? particularly there was criticism, for example, patting down children. but that could be a threat at some point. >> yeah, unfortunately, terrorists don't follow our societal norms. so we don't see terrorists -- children as being terrorists, but we know that parents and others use children to do bad things, and that happens not only around the world, but here in the u.s. in certain context. we know that two 10-year-olds have been used as suicide bombers. unfortunately, last month in afghanistan an 8-year-old girl was used by the taliban to deliver a package which they blew up when she delivered the package. so bad people use children for

bad things. that being said, we are exploring ways and are trying some different ways of screening children, um, who are with their parents in a way that facilitates that recognizing that in the great likelihood that that child is not being used to carry a bomb, for example. >> we're trying to do everything we can technically and on a security basis at our airports, our ports, um, train stations. but what assurance do you have that other foreign security agencies go to the same length that we do? obviously, of course, a lot of those ships and planes land here. >> tw yeah. the first thing i think i'd say, susan, is, of course, there's no guarantees in this business, and that's become apparent given all the challenges we have. so what we, i like to describe it that we are in the risk mitigation or risk management business rather than risk elimination. we will never have 100% guarantee that everything is

safe and secure because we would have to shut down. there'd be two to three-hour checkpoint lines, and cargo would come to a substantial slowdown. so what we do with our international partners is set baseline standards that they have to follow. so if somebody wants to fly not u.s. or -- fly to the u.s. or ship cargo or packages to the u.s., they have to meet these baseline standards, and then we work with them to increase their efficiency and their effectiveness and how they go about doing that. >> well talking about slowdowns and compliance, i recall back in the 1990s before september 11th, obviously, when there was resistance among the airlines for things just as basic as positive id match. i mean, the airlines made the argument back then it would slow air traffic all across the country. americans would never agree to that invasion of prize. privacy. so, obviously, that changed immediately. i mean, it was changed before and as a matter of record, the airlines actually made money on it because people could no

longer use third-party tickets. but what level of cooperation do you get from airlines now when things such as reinforcing doors or anything else that costs them money -- >> we have excellent cooperation with not only the airlines themselves, but the airport authorities and executives and associations that represent them in terms of finding slugs to challenging problems. so, for example, we're working with the airlines now on a new form of known or trusted travel as part of this risk-based security initiative. they've been very forward-leaning. i've spoken with the ceos of five of the major u.s. carriers in the last few weeks to thank them for their support because they are spending some money to make some changes that help us in terms of security function and allow possibility for more expa dieted physical screening -- expedited physical re