by pooling our resources and are asked for behind countries develop in country a plan, we can reach more farmers and more villages and multiplier impacts. this fund shares many of the characteristics of our own feet to future initiatives, including a strong voice for civil society and rigorous systems for monitoring and evaluating the old. to make sure contributions or making a real difference in people's lives. with support from seven donors, australia, canada, ireland, the republic of korea, spain, the united states and the bill and melinda gates foundation, the fund has lardy awarded half a billion dollars to 12 countries, including a 51.5-liter dollars grant to ethiopia. we are also looking to the private sector to contribute, especially in coming up with innovative ideas for reducing

hunger and food insecurity. we are working with a tech company on the ground in africa called socal, to test life-saving information -- transfixed so they know where relief information can be found nearby. we are supporting a partnership among general mills, carville and the dutch company gsm improves their ability to produce high-quality nutritious seafood. this will benefit local can the merits and prepare food producers to compete in regional markets. and they said before many names particularly at agoa conferences, africa must drop its trade barriers so they can trade with each other. sub-saharan africa has more trade barriers and they are more limited in intercountry regional trade in any part of the world.

finally, we need the contributions of caring individuals here in the united states and around the world. we have seen this in previous crises from the indian ocean tsunami in 2004 to the earthquake in haiti, individual donations can have a tremendous impact. even a few dollars can save lives. and that heroic organizations operated in the horn of africa right now and in all the support we can offer. the usaid home page provides access to information about several groups so it's an easy way for people to help. just as it usaid.gov. ..

to support this effort. we must remember that time is not on our side. every minute more people, mostly women, and mostly children, are

dying. they're becoming sick. they are fleeing their homes. we must respond. we need to rise the level of this emergency by acting smarter and faster than we have before, to achieve both short-term relief and long-term progress. think of what it would mean if we do succeed. millions of people would be saved from this current calamity. millions more would no longer live tenuous existences, always prepared to pick up and move to find food if drought or conflict or other crises occur. parents would no longer have to endure the agony of losing their children when the food runs out, and food aid from countries like

the united states would be needed less frequently because we're now supporting agricultural self-sufficiency. that would be a transformational shift for the people of our partner countries. a new era of security, stability, help, economic opportunity, peace, and stability, and would signal a new chapter in the world's relationship with the people of these countries as they become themselves able to care for their families. they will become real models and examples of prosperity and stability, and they will become partners to do even more, to help people live up to their own god-given potential. if we can achieve that future, we will have done something truly remarkable. just as the green revolution made such a difference, what we're trying to do now is to get back to what worked then, focus

on the basics. focus on the work that is done. i had a chance to meet the directors, and they're working on how you enhance nutritional substance with micronutrients. how you provide better seeds for crops. how you help herders, whose natural desire is to hold on to their livestock because it represents to the rest of the world their significance. all of this is in the tradition of the green revolution, which made such a difference. but then the world moved away, thinking that our work was done. and in fact, it was not. and we got very good at delivering emergency assistance when we put our minds to it. but we lost our way, and we have to do both. both the crisis and the future

investments, so that we can see progress in very tangible ways, and history will record that as being a significant accomplishment for all, including those of you in this room, who played your part. so we have a lot of work ahead of us, but i came today to make sure that in my own country, and beyond, people know we have a crisis, and we must respond. we must try to save those lives that are being lost in those brutal marchs to try to get to safety. we must support the refugee camps, and do everything we can to provide the immediate help that is needed, but let's not just do that, as important as that is. let's use this opportunity to make very clear what more we need to do together to try to

avoid this happening again. and i could think of no better place to come to make that plea and to issue that challenge than to the international food policy research institute. thank you all very much. [applause] [inaudible] >> now, the assistant secretary

of state for international narcotics and law enforcement, william brownfield, discussed violence in central america related to the drug trade and the u.s. assistance of the governments in the region. the american society and the council of americas hosted this hour-long event. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning, everyone. good morning and welcome. we're very pleased that all of you have chosen to join us today? what promises to be the first glorious day in washington since may, and we're delighted you're here to be with us instead of on the golf course. so that speaks well of all of you, and certainly of the speaker we have today. my nick is eric farnsworth and i'm privileged to head the washington office of the 'mesh

sew sigh and the council of americas and the coast of what promises to be a timely program on security and democracy in central america. to address these issues we are honored to have with us the assistant secretary of state for ambassador william brownsfield, and honored to have so many dignitaries in the audience with us today. as all of you know, the combined mission of the americas society and the council of americas is to unite leader inside the western hemisphere for the -- to promote solutions to ongoing challenges. we believe strongly in this tenth anniversary year of the democratic charter that healthy democracies are critical regional well-being, and we seek to promote democratic institutions through social explosion the rule of law, and we're joined in our program by

three other top institutions of study and learning on hemispheric issues here in washington. the center for international studies, represented by steven johnson, the institute for national strategic studies of the national defense university, represented by colonel jay cope, and the center for hemispheric defense study, represent bid their director, dr. richard down yes. i thank you all for your participation here as well. ladies and gentlemen, central america was once the lens through which washington viewed latin america. indeed, many of us here in this room, including me, were first introduced to the region through the conflictive 1980s and then the democratic consolidations of the 1990s. the gains for the region were dramatic and real. what nobody really counted on was the significant increase in drug-fueled violence that has

begun to challenge governments and undermine democrat games. central america's homicide rate is now four times the global average. corruption are rampant. police and security forces have been penetrate by drug gangs which have also cowed the press into self-censor ship. it must be said the united states is not blameless, because it's our our inability to prevent the travel of drugs to mexico that is fueling the crisis but the region itself must do more, working together in a new way on some of the most fundmental intrusive issues, including security and raising the revenue to pay for it. even showing themselves willing, perhaps to seed a bit of sovereignty to each other, so as not to lose even more sovereignty to the drug gaps

instead. this part of the message that secretary of state hillary rodham clinton took with her in june. pledge of commitment and support was important. and much of the credit for this expansion the -- attention must go to our speaker this morning. who was on the trip with the secretary and is charged by her with implementing the broad vision that was laid out. in my view, ambassador bill brownfield is a superb person for the job. he is one of the most talented officers in the foreign service, and his leadership on these issues is largely driving u.s. policy toward the region. prior to taking his current duties last january, bill was ambassador sequentially to three latin american countries, chile, and colombia. he has been a deputy assistant

secretary of state guys a member of the secretary's policy planning staff. a native of texas, bill actually began his career as -- in the oil patch. not the sort of training one expected for the foreign,but bill is not your typical foreign service officer. i first met him almost 20 years ago when i was officer in the office of central american affairs and he was executive assistant. i have been impressed as he has taken on complicated issues for the united states and done so successfully. perhaps the oil patch training, where you have roll up your sleeve's and find a way to get the job done was more valuable training than we know. ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming to the podium, the assistant secretary of state for international narks and law enforcement affairs,

ambassador william brownfield. [applause] >> dr. farnsworth, trying to make me field old by referring to those ancient, ancient years gone by. ladies and gentlemen, it's quite clear we're in the month of august in washington, where many people have a lot of time on their hands, and nevertheless i am delighted to see all of you here this morning, and i hope the time that you dedicate to this conversation will not be time poorly spent. dr. farnsworth, many, many thanks, with some degree of seriousness, and may i thank as well at the very beginning the council of the americas, as the principle host, csif, the national institute for national distract jig study and the

center for hemispheric studies, without whose support we would not be here this morning, and that may or may not be a good thing, depending upon how the next hour players out. ladies and gentlemen, distinguished ambassadors, members of the diplomatic community, distinguished members of the media and ladies and gentlemen. i would like to begin with a story. a make-believe st. let us call it a fable if you will. once upon a time in land far, far away, there lived two kingdoms. one kingdom in the south, we'll say it's a mountain kingdom. some would want to say there were several such kingdom, but it's my story, so i'll say it the way i wish in that kick -- kingdom, for ropes having to do with culture and history and tradition to a certain extent

and also economics and the desire to make money, to a very large extent, people in that southern mountain kingdom produced a substance, let's say several substances, that in fact, if misused, cause physical harm to people but nevertheless some people like to use it. in this fable to the north is a large kingdom, and in that kingdom there are many people, millions, perhaps, that in fact have an appetite, a taste for this stuff. they're willing to pay money for it, and in fact have some degree -- make some degree of sacrifice in order to use this stuff. and, as is inevitable in a sad story and fable of this nature, as you can well imagine, over time, the people that eventually took over the process by which this product was produced and

then transported and sold in the northern kingdom, were criminals. and what happened, ladies and gentlemen? i would like to offer you my only three visual aids in my presentation this morning, if i may. maestro, me a i -- may i have the first map, please. what happened -- and now you can see i have given away the surprise. most of you probably had already figured out where i was talking about in my story and my fable. if you had asked me, ladies and gentlemen, 21 years ago, in 1990, what is my calculation in terms of how elicit drugs are moving from south america to north america, i would have said to you, the overwhelming

majority is moving through the caribbean. sometimes the western caribbean, sometimes the eastern caribbean, sometimes by sea, sometimes by air. i would have acknowledged, small arrows, that is not the only route but that would be the dominant route. what happened, as you can well national, those both in south america and north america and in the caribbean, took steps, countermeasures, made efforts to shut down this route of transportation. so, how would things look ten years later? i would suggest -- i'm going to try it myself this time -- that it would have looked more like this. notice several things. w., the big thick arrow has moved to the west and is moving up the eastern pacific. second, there is a new arrow that you're beginning to see in

the year 2000. that is an arrow which symbolically represents the movement of the product across the atlantic to new markets in europe and elsewhere around the world, and, please note that the other two air rows -- arrows have not disappear. i'm not suggesting no product moved 11 years ago through the caribbean or through central america, but it was -- they were no longer the dominant routes, and finally, may i note as well, because i do see the distinguished defense at tach at-shay from republican of colombia -- the fact i start my big arrow in colombia is not my assertion that all the product comes from colombia but acknowledging i do not have a map big enough to show all the points of origin from which the product was moving. so by 2000 we were confronting a different situation, and the response was, in the year 2000,

a planned colombian, a colombian plan but strongly supported by several other governments, including my own -- to address, stop, reduce, and eventually eliminate the flow of the product from column a, -- colombia. greater efforts of governments to interrupt the flow of narcotics through the even pacific, and ten years later we see something that looks very much like this. as a result of the efforts in northern south america, in the caribbean, and in the eastern pacific, you now see the overwhelming majority of the flow of narcotics products through central america, on its way to the north american

market. and, i might add, beginning in the year 2007, you see a squeeze at both ends of the central american isthmus, the beginning of an impact of the efforts to put the squeeze on the routes to the north in mexico under the merida initiative. ladies and gentlemen, i give you this long saga -- and i will now attempt to shut off my -- here's what i will do -- not to show you how skillful i am with maps and with power point presentations, but to give you some understanding of how we got to where we are today. and where are we today? let's ask ourselves the question. how serious is this threat?

that is affecting and in my opinion, threatening the very core institutions of central america today? first, we calculate that more than 95% -- let me repeat that figure -- more than 95% of all elicit drugs that enter north america from south america, have transited central america. '95%. what impact might that have on the region? here is a statistic, dates from 2010, the last year we have full statistics. in 2002, the homicide rate in hon duras was 82 per 100,000 population in el salvador, 65, in got mall los angeles 4 --

guatemala, 61. here in the united states, a society not known for its pacifism and a lack of violence, our homicide rate is somewhat below five. more than 70,000 youth in the seven countries of central america, an overwhelmingly focused on the northern three of guatemala, honduras, and el salvador, are calculated to me members of gangs. i say calculated because, of course, the gangs do not participate in official census, do not register their members, and do not provide their statistics to local governments and institutions, but the calculation is about 70,000. the entire population of central america is about one/seventh the

population of north america. if you play the statistical game, it would be half a million gang members on the streets of the united states cities. ladies and gentlemen, central america in a very real sense is a victim. it is a victim of geography, and it can do nothing about that. it is now, always has been, and i presume, until hoped to the world, will be located between the two large continents of south and north america. it is a victim of the fact that there is a large demand for a particular product, an elicit product in north america, and a large capability to supply that demand in south america.

it is a victim in a very real sense of progress elsewhere in the region. progress in colombia, under plan colombia where, thanks to the heroic effort of a large number of colombian citizens, the problem has been squeezed down substantially over the last 11 years, and the progress that we see beginning, i submit, more on that later -- in mexico, with the mexican government's efforts to retake control of its own communities, its own streets, and its own borders. and central america, to a very real extent, is a victim to those factors which it cannot control. it is also a victim of some internal factors which perhaps

it does share responsibility for, and more on that in a moment. >> ladies and gentlemen, several members of the media, and obviously none of those who are present with us here today, who are far too brilliant to make this sort of assertion -- but in recent months, members of the media have discussed and suggested that we have discovered the crises and the problems afflicting central america today. we have not discovered them. it is not as though they -- we were oblivious to what was happening. i suggest to you that this is a natural and inevitable progression. we knew it was happening, and we knew it was going to happen. if i can use the metaphor of three houses located side-by-side on a street. one house erupts in flames, and

the community, alas, due to resource and budget area issue -- budgetary issues, has only one fire truck. where does the fire truck go? isit goes the house that is burning. sure enough, sparks pass to the third house and it starts to burn as well. the fire truck goes the third house. it knows perfectly well that the house in between is eventually going to burn, but you've only got one fire truck. you're watching this house in the middle. you know at some point in time you're going to have to go after it, but you've got one truck and you're going to focus the truck on the house that is actually burning. and it is burning today, ladies and gentlemen, and i suggest to you that what we will talk about for the remainder of this morning, is where to put that fire truck, what equipment to put on that truck, how many people we can put on that truck,

and how we can get maximum value out of that truck. i address and assess this problem in essence as a pyramid, and here's my thinking. at the top of the pyramid are those threats that are concretely and actively attacking the institution of the seven states of central america. i identify, too from a security front -- i am the assistant secretary for international narcotics and law enforcement affairs. one threat are the international drug trafficking organizations, and the other threat are the gangs. i'm fully aware, ladies and gentlemen, that there's a great deal of overlap between those two institutions, but all gangs do not traffic drugs and all trafficking organizations do not use gangs as their implementing operators. so there are two of them, and they are actively attacking the institutions of the states of central america.

the next level of my pyramid are the vulnerabilities. what do these gangs and trafficking organizations use in order to accomplish their business or other purposes? there are many. in fact if we had 20 hours we could probably come up with a 500 page book. i'll off six or seven that come immediately to mind. one, culture that tends to accept violence as matter of the hoist the last 35 years. second, a prison that operates in such a way that actually allows the recycling of people that go into the prison system, for whatever offenses or crimes they may have committed. third, pourous borders, which is to say, borders that actually provide opportunity as opposed to obstacles to people who wish to move product along the land route, if you will, of the

isthmus. fourth, wide-spread corruption. corruption in institutions, corruption in governments, corruption in businesses. ... finally, poverty and unemployment, the two frequently go hand-in-hand although they are obviously different issues, and the fact that a community and a society that does not offer economic opportunity to its people has to assume that its people are going to try to

take care of themselves and their families through some other means. so that is the second level of my period. the threats, the vulnerabilities that they take advantage of in the third and final level therefore would be the programs, the activities that the governments themselves, that their international partners and the international community writ large, government organizations, ngos, can try to support that would reduce and eventually eliminate those vulnerabilities. because once you remove those vulnerabilities, the bad guys at the top of your pyramid have no basis upon which to operate. if they don't have lots of poverty and unemployment which reduces disaffected youth and a culture that accepts violence, porous borders and prison systems that do not work, they will find it far far more

difficult to operate either as a gang or as a trafficking organization. so that is the concept. and who endorsed that concept ladies and gentlemen? in march of this year in the city of san salvador, republic of el salvador the president of the united united states, very e man, stood with the president of el salvador and said, there is a threat that is affecting central america. it affects all of us. we need a new partnership, which he calls the partnership for citizen security and central america and ladies and gentlemen, i endorsed, supported plot and am prepared to do everything in my power to follow up on the president's commitment to move this partnership forward. i will do so together with all

other parts of my government based upon some very simple principles. some of them are difficult principles. for example, number one, we have limited resources to work with. on the 23rd of june and the city of ramallah, the secretary of state committed $290 million from the united states government to support this effort in the course of this year. not 2.9 billion, not 29 billion, 290 million i have to be honest with the ladies and gentlemen, to get to this number i had to offer her some old money that was still available for spending this year, little bit of new money and some creative thinking in terms of how we can recycle existing funds. i do not see unless you think i'm missing something -- i do

not see the likelihood of a fast infusion of new funds coming from that element of the united states government that is constitutionally entitled to up to fund and appropriate the taxpayers money in the united states in the foreseeable future. so my first principle is, we have to have an approach that accepts the reality that we have limited resources. second principle, if you have got limited resources how can you expand your resource base? how can you build on the number of donors that are prepared to support this effort? there are some that are at the very much and in some cases heroically engaged in this effort. in no particular order i would mention the governments of canada, colombia, spain, the european union and its commission, the interamerican development.

this is a core group that has already along with the government that i represent, committed its resources and its efforts to address this threat. our challenge, principle number two is, how can we build on and expand that donor base? principle number three, where we have fewer resources, and can we by reorganizing our efforts, distributing the workload, focusing and prioritizing, sequencing in a different way, expand the impact of the limited resources that we have? this is confiscated stuff ladies and gentlemen because the government usual approach to this sort of problem is, let's throw money at it. and without naming any other locations in the world, be they located in central asia or the middle east, but i will name non, we have a very different

set of realities that we must deal with in this comp a catered situation, and it does require an approach that is almost unprecedented among governments, international organizations and even if you would permit me to suggest an opinion, ngos. fourth principle, our starting point is that these are regional threats. they are not country specific. they affect the entire central american region. therefore the solution must be regional as well. this becomes complicated as i will explain in a moment because again, the world for the last 60 or 70 years has been set up on the basis of bilateral relationships for the most part. if you have got a problem and government a works with government b to solve a problem. it is rare, not unprecedented, but where the government a works

with government b. c. d. e. f. g. and h. collectively together to solve the problem at the same time. principle number five. the threats emanate from central america. the leadership in the process must come from central america. it cannot he and externally imposed solution. that does not work. and it's especially does not work when you are dealing with a limited resource base. fortunately, we have an institution established by the seven governments of central america themselves that already exist and that is created and designed to accomplish just exactly this coordination purpose. it is called sica. grassley is. [laughter] and it represents all seven of

the governments of central america and provides if you will, regional leadership and buy-in to what the larger international community can do. and sixth and finally, and i am fairly emphatic about this. there are two partners who must be partners in this effort. for geographic reasons or political reasons, for socioeconomic reasons, for law enforcement reasons. we talk about this as the central america initiative. in many ways we probably should talk about it as the mesoamerican initiative because ladies and gentlemen, you cannot address this issue involving the seven governments of central america without incorporating the governments of colombia and mexico into the solution. two countries that are in very different positions in terms of their historical development in

addressing these problems and by no means do you treat them as exactly the same sorts of government in terms of their contribution, but you have to acknowledge. you cannot solve if that is the word i wish to use, central america's crises without incorporating colombia and mexico into the solution. there is finally a lesson that i submit we have all learned over the last 30 or 40 years, but we had that her remember it's today. there is no silver bullet solution. there is no one single program, one single project, one single operation that if we do it, and do it correctly, it will solve the problem. no ladies and gentlemen, take us many many years to get into this mess and it is going to take years to get out of it. and, we have learned over time,

starting if you will in the 1970s, that as you address these law enforcement and drug related threats, you have to have an approach that addresses all elements of the problem, from education treatment and rehabilitation at one end, the demand side, all the way down through interdiction, money laundering and financial crimes, precursor chemicals, production capabilities, cultivation on the supply-side. you cannot focus on only one element. if you do, the criminal organizations have troops to be masters at developing a workaround that actually, using your focus and priority as the means by which they facilitate

and improve their own networks and their own operations. so what is this initiative? i'm going to give you in the fairest outline, my view of what it is and then you will follow up undoubtedly with questions, which while attempts to answer. the merida initiative was four pillars and there were seven countries in central america so they deservedly spy pillars. here are the five that i suggest constitute the core of this initiative, this approach, this policy, the strategy. call it what you wish. first this means of the mothers terrified of allowing her children to go out and play outside the home, you obviously have a community security problem and you have to solve that problem at the retail level. how can you give a community a small society, sufficient confidence in their security that they feel comfortable playing, living, working in

their own neighborhoods and in their own communities? second, disrupt the traffickers. i have suggested to you one of the two core threats to the institutions and to the states of central america are the trafficking organizations. there must be an element that attacks them directly. whether this interdiction, whether they're strengthening borders, whether it is eliminating or at least reducing their ability to launder money or transact financial crimes. there must be an element that attacks the organizations themselves. third is strong and accountable government. is in many ways is what we referred to to and have for 30 years, institution building. the institutions ladies and gentlemen are not just law enforcement although clearly they are the key complement to it. is also corrections and prosecutors. at his court. it is all the institutions that

constitute the rule of law continuum in any country, any society, any country, community around the world. and in essence the objective is to make each of those institutions sufficiently strong, transparent and accountable that they not only can do their job, but they have the respect and the support of the communities and societies that they serve. fourth is strong communities. strong communities move us into what is the tradition of economic and social development spheres. this is what development agencies do. they do employment generation and business generation. they build basic public services that makes them function. they supported u.k. and systems and health care systems that provide a community a core and

the communities citizens a stake in the future of their own community. a desire to actually make the institutions work, because they see a future for themselves and their families in that community. and the fifth pillar i suggest to you required by the circumstances that we deal with in terms of resources is enhanced cooperation. cooperation internally, by which i mean the seven governments of central america, their own institutions and capabilities to work among themselves to address this regional threat. but also, cooperation and the external sense, cooperation among potential donors, governments, organizations, and ngos to support the strategy,

the policy, the initiative, the effort in central america. ladies and gentlemen, i conclude with a sobering observation. we have thought for the last 11 years or so that the big initiatives that we have been working in this hemisphere, plan colombia which i used to january of 2000 is the kickoff date although the truth of the matter was we were working fairly aggressively with the government of colombia since 1999. the merida initiative of 2007. we regard these as being complicated but also models for how to co-operate in a multilateral way to address multilateral threats. i submit to you that central america, despite the fact that we are dealing with states that are smaller in terms of population and geography, central america and a very real

way is more confiscated than plan colombia, more complicated than the merida initiative because we have seven different governments and societies and communities. each of whom have hundreds of years of history, hundreds of years of developing their own mindset, their own attitudes among themselves and between themselves and their neighbors. and we must work in a way that links them all together in a positive way. we will make the stakes. please make sure you have got that on record. brownfield acknowledge is, we will make mistakes. there will be missteps. we will learn from those mistakes and missteps. it would not surprise me at all if i were to learn from some of those from you this very same

morning. i will listen carefully. i actually believe it is possible to learn from your mistakes. but one mistake we don't need to make, we do not need to learn a lesson that we are ready no. we cannot here in the united states of america ignore what is happening in central america today. because ladies and gentlemen, the decision is very, very simple. if we ignore these threats, these problems and these crises in central america today, we will address them on our own front porch is tomorrow. and with that sobering thought, i thank you dr. farnsworth. i turn this back over to you. thank you very much. [applause]

>> thank you, bill. as promised, those were terrific remarks. congratulation and thank you for taking the time to make them today and is promised to the audience certainly lively and at times provocative. so thank you for joining us as well. we have 15 minutes for follow-up questions. i want to ask the first one if you are formulating your own questions. we have circulating microphones for you as you are recognized. we would ask that you please identify yourself by name as well as your organization. but bill, you laid out a conference of strategy, which makes a lot of sense.

and he touched on a lot of points and it is a complicated issue. we have commitments at the highest levels of not just our government that other governments as well. but it is a strategy that is going to take time to implement. and i guess the question would be, the situation on the ground right now is pretty bad in some cases, and so there may be a disconnect in terms of getting at the drug trafficking organizations in the gangs which you identified at the top of your pyramid who are causing trouble right now as well as allowing the possible disconnect in terms of allowing that strategy to fully implement and take affect. i guess the question would be in the interim, who keeps the peace and i'm referring specifically to a proposal that the outgoing resident of water mullah made about the idea of some sort of a regional security force or something like that. i'm not proposing that necessarily but their ideas out there along those lines. by which is like to get your reaction to who keeps the peace

today in no circumstances? >> eric, a fair point and impact of interest of time i suppose i did not bore the audience by going through point by point, country by country, program by program what we are already doing but i do want to make it clear to you and to everyone else in the room that we are not starting at.0. we do have a program. they are bilateral programs, programs in the united states and el salvador, the united states and guatemala, honduras, costa rican, nicaragua, panama mob and believes. those programs have not disappeared. they give us at least a starting point so that the simplest answer to your question, what are we doing in essence while this larger initiative eventually takes form and begins to have an impact? we have a bilateral approach that continues, as does spain, as is columbia colombia which by the way growing. in my opinion in terms of

assisting in the training of thousands of law enforcement personnel in central america. as does canada and the european union. in other words, we are not in essence waiting before we get started. now, president cologne has obviously, has made i would call the more, he is thrown out some ideas for consideration and that is how you develop, improve, fine-tune and approach. my own view and belief is what we will have to do, our challenge both within the seven governments of central america as well as the international community that chooses to support them. it is to reach common agreement and understanding on the basic elements of the strategy. i would suggest we are pretty close to being there. that was the sica summit on the

23rd of june was all about. in about two weeks time, most of the major donors plus the sica executive secretary will meet and what we will do is try to take the strategy, this set of objectives, divided up into more or less individual light sized chewable parts and then in essence decide who is in the lead, who will have the lead responsibility for this part, and how will we seek as i might paraphrase the 16th president of the united states, you can do-somethings all the time and all things on the time but you can't do all dings all the time. i know he didn't ask or say that but the concept is the same, and in a sense that is what we have to address in the central america initiative. where do we start? where do we put our initial focus? what is your thinking in terms of how this would sequence out over the next one to five years

and then who is in the lead? which country, which element of which country and of the lead means among the donors but it also means within the central american seven as well. that is my suggestion as to where we are. if i could close of the baseball metaphor, don't hold me responsible for not yet having all details of a fully fleshed out plan. we are in the first inning of a nine inning game. we hope it is only nine innings and doesn't go into extra innings, and we are at this time still sorting out -- we have got our lineups more or less but we are still sorting out how the flow of the game is going to proceed or gus be very good. let's take one round of questions round of questions and see if we can get them all and. i'm going to start when the way in the back. every time i have come to one of these events people start in the front. so let's start in the back with this young woman right here. have we got a microphone?

>> ambassador brown --. >> and you turn your microphone up police? is it on? >> hello? i am sarah hagee from the department of commerce. i want to know if your strategy is this partnership for citizen security. it is not the same thing of the central american regional security and should initiative? i've heard a lot about that i know something about it. that is official question but i've been working also, my second is the partnership for growth is something in el salvador that we have been working out quite a bit and a lot of the economic competitiveness for economic growth initiatives that are part of that had a lot to do with security and crime and while we do -- my point is that i hope you would comment on this, the needing government in the united states when we are coming up with a strategy for how to deal with central america, could we get the greater cooperation are sharing of ideas between various

groups that are always organized to address these challenges? and i mean the intelligence, your group and other organizations? i often feel that we address problems in different stovepipes. that is an internal usg question. >> let's break there because i need to get other people into the conversation. thank you for those and there was a question right here on the isle. right here, this gentleman here on the site. >> you richard, st. louis committee on foreign relations. you went through very briefly problems with the prosecutors and i think we need to look at that little more closely. it is wanting to play and -- trained police that but when that when a course on marcotte expect the police to work and when the public has no confidence in the courts have you expect them to work and attitude that when the government have a demonstrated inability to protect those who actually take a stand against

the cartels or try to dispense justice, how can you expect the courts to work? how do we deal with these kinds of basic issues? >> thank you and since a gentleman here did stand up and i did say on iowa's go to the third question they are. i track you there. >> thank you very much. my concern. >> could you identify yourself please? could you identify yourself? >> i'm william steadman. i'm a retired foreign service officer. u.s. domestic demand is certainly a considerable problem which you have noted. i would like to know what is being done, what can be done and what coordination exists among various u.s. government state and local agencies to do with domestic demand? thank you. >> very good. >> unusually i will try to respond in the order in which the questions came forth. i actually wrote them down so i have a vague recollection of what was posed.

first, carsey versus the security partnership. you are actually correct. there is complete interrelation although i would differentiate to say that what the president is proposing in march of, president obama come in march of this year in san salvador was a collective multilateral international community effort. that was the citizen security partnership. carsey if you will would be the central american regional security initiative, would be the u.s. comp on it from the security and law enforcement side so my answer to your question is, gasp, and that is what what we will call the citizen security partnership is the large umbrella that covers the entire international community that is attempting to address these issues and it is the u.s. law enforcement rule of

law side and the contribution to that effort. the partnership for growth. you are correct. there is some danger i guess in having in proliferation of initiatives and the partnership for growth, and i'm fully aware that for much of this week members of the department of commerce as well as the department of state were common a in some cases still are in el salvador, working this economic business commercial trade, prosperity driven agenda and initiative, and there is obvious overlap between that and a citizen security partnership. as a speaker so brilliantly articulated a few minutes ago, one of the core pillars has to be building strong and resilient communities and to do that,

there must be economic growth. there must be jobs. there must be business opportunities. now, there have to be cross communications between the two sets of people. there are now, always have been and i suspect to some extent always will be different communities and institutions between those responsible for law enforcement, rule of law and citizen security on the one hand, and those responsible for economic development, economic growth, fiscal policy, budgetary policy and business development on the other, but that does not mean that the two groups are not talking to one another because if i might close this particular question is something that is so obvious it is almost a cliché, you are not going to have security if you don't have economic growth and you ain't going to have economic growth if you don't have security. ..

prosecutors and courts. we have learned, by the way, on that front something with attempting to learn from for the last 25 to 30 years, but in the mice prosecutors in court for judges are more complicated in the sense that there is kind of a common global standard by

which police are supposed to operate. judicial systems in the ecosystems are inherently suffered an inherently different. we, for example, have it, my system except for louisiana and that a certain tradition in terms of how our laws, courts, prosecutions are. other countries of the world, including six of the seven governments in the ecosystems in central america have a code base system. it's kind of difficult to get all to fit into one category. i will offer by way of response of my own observation in el salvador when i was a younger service operator 1981 to 1983. it is easier to work with prosecutors than it is to work with judges.

when you move into the judicial front, you are truly moving into a nation's absolute sovereign territory, where there's just an instinctive resistance to any other government or institution. not just the u.s., but any other way coming and end in essence trying to tell them how to run our judicial system. it shouldn't matter since the apical to a prosecutor. the process by which an individual attempts to convince a mechanism. call them a judge, a jury, i don't care what you call that, that this individual in fact has committed this crime that should be sanctioned therefore. so we have learned over the last 30 years that there are certain common themes or thread that you can bring to bear upon

prosecutors almost anywhere. you are correct, however in your underlying assumptions, if that element of the rule of law continuance is not also addressed, this initiative will not succeed. finally, u.s. demand. i've got to tell you, you could've asked the same question in the year 1965 or for that matter 1955. in many ways the fundamentals of that question have not changed. i suppose a simple answer to your question is we have not yet solved the problem of demand in the united states of america. i do not want to oversimplify to suggest it is only a problem in the united states. i would suggest to you, for example that the demand in the united states for cocaine probably dropped -- i did say as much as 50% over the last 10 years. cocaine production in south

america has not tried 50%. it is going to other markets increasingly in south america and elsewhere in latin america itself, which is to say demand is elastic, both in terms of how much or little demand there is and where the demand is located. what's the cooperation between elements of the federal, but please remember we are a federal system, state municipal and local governments. i would give you all must be facetious answer. some places it works very well in some places it doesn't work very well or at least not as well. i am not the right wing to give you a detailed answer to that question because of course i am the assistant secretary for international narcotics and law enforcement affairs, the director of the office of national drug control policy, sometimes referred to as the drug czar is that position which for the past roughly 40 years has had the responsibility of

linking all these elements together into a common strategy in common approach. and i'm offering a personal opinion. i'm a great admirer of the director of national drug control policies. i believe he does things -- he has an extensive background coming having most recently served as chief of police in seattle. he has an academic background coming but he brings to this job a commitment that demand has to be an essential and perhaps the most element to the long-term solution. if you attack the problem that way, i am not domestic but eventually you will see. >> i think that's a terrific note to end on. i know there a lot of questions out there. i have several more about u.s. given the opportunity, but regrettably rather time. i want to thank the institute for national strategic studies

and also the essential hemisphere defense study for their cooperation today. i want to thank all of your most particularly to ask all of you to please join me in thanking ambassador brownfield for his company. [applause] [inaudible conversations] 5

>> up next on booktv, author howard means suggests john chapman, better known as johnny appleseed. mr. means is the author of johnny appleseed, the man, to

make the american story. u spoke at urbani university it ohio 45 minutes. >> welcome. my name is joe besecker, director of johnny appleseed society at urbana university. we are located for this programd and the johnny appleseed educational center and museum in historic daily howler here at the university. we are here to listen to howardo means talk about his brand-newut book. this is his 10th book new book, he has written a biography of john chapman and is here to tell us all about it. the name of the book is "johnny appleseed: the man, the myth, the american story". so i welcome howard.

[applause] >> thank you very much. my book was published only five days ago. since then i have done some taping sessions with nationally syndicated radio shows that this is the first live event for johnny appleseed and couldn't happen in a more appropriate place not only because we're in the newly renovated johnny appleseed educational center and museum. joe was one of the first people i contacted agreed to publish the book. joe besecker has been a terrific held from day one. one of the johnny appleseed society trustees, parter humphrey who is sitting at the end of this row. if you don't know who he is he has done wonderful research into the roots of john chapman introduction to emanual swedenborgian and once i latched onto him, arthur might be more inclined to think of a blood

sucking parasite but still he was very generous with his time and knowledge. while i am digressing i should also add that one of the problems i face in this book from the beginning was to refer to its title character as john chapman and when to refer to him as johnny appleseed. in general colombia to refers to the historical figure while appleseed to the myth that he became the the two are so intertwined that the distinction gets worse than misty but that is generally what i am trying to hold to in these comments. back to where we are, urbana the city and urbana the university. as all of you know bursting with chapman appleseed connections. urbana was where chapman met with attorney john james to discuss possible legal proceedings concerning one of his orchards. one of those rare moments when the historical figure steps out from behind the curtain and lets us have a good look at him.

chapman paced the room as he talked and chewed on nuts. john james -- in 1850 as the only swedenborgian affiliated west of the alleghenies. the fulfillment of a dream long held by john chapman. the first president of the college was well acquainted with chapman and shared many common interests with him and reportedly committed to paper what almost certainly would have been the most weighty and illuminating manuscripts -- portrait of chapman by any of his contemporaries but that has gone missing. as so many things have gone missing, so many moments you can't quite find the document. maybe you all have documents in your home for as and if so let me know. johnny appleseed complex when we were meeting today is located in the combined daily and barkley halls.

your printed generally considered the father of the new church in america and the sister-in-law to john young who arthur has shown convincingly almost certainly gave johnny appleseed his first taste of swedenborgian. it crawls with connections direct and indirect. for me the most rewarding of the mall is the fact that this museum happens to be the repository of the papers of florence murdoch the longtime secretary of the new church library in cincinnati because it was in those papers that are was able to trace the history of how johnny appleseed made his film debut. the story begins with december of 1944 letter to murdoch from a librarian at the indiana historical society. the library and wanted to let murdoch know that two studios, mgm and disney had been asking about johnny appleseed. of the two the library conferred disney's take on the job but was not certain. are only trust she wrote that they do not do something

peculiar and horrible. movies so often do. three years later with the mgm movie scrapped an disney's animated version of johnny's life headed to fetus nationwide murdoch was convinced something peculiar and horrible was exactly what the walt disney studio had done and on may 26, 1948, the day before the cartoon classic, the time was released murdoch wrote walt disney to correct the error of his ways. the letter begins on a high note but murdoch praising the studio for celebrating johnny's blessings free love and faith in an apple tree. then it grows more heated. the movie showed sunni goaded on to greatness by a sourpuss apparition in a coonskin cap, johnny's guardian angel and for murdoch that was playing too fast and loose with the spirit world that was central to swedenborg, the advertisements we have seen indicate the

subject is treated in a relatively conservative manner. except for that extraordinarily grotesque figure of a guardian angel we are curious to know what process of reasoning your studio arrived at this strange conception. what to do? murdoch had several suggestions. keep in mind this is one day before the movie was to be released. too late to make a change? perhaps substituting the figure of a child if a traditional angel would seem out of place or if that is impossible could not the name be changed from guardian angel to spirit of the frontier? let me digress again. anybody here ever meet florence and murdoch? in the course of doing this i have the vision of her as one of the stalwart types going forward this high and very buxom and always work complete the blue

dresses with little -- used to be stuck in my mind that way. disney never -- murdoch requested never made. that is probably just as well because without his guardian angel disney's johnny appleseed never would have gathered the gumption to leave his nonexistent farm near pittsburgh much less across the ohio river into the wilderness of the northwest territory. in disney's the old settler johnny appleseed and johnny's angel johnny is, quote, such a sawed off scrawny fellow despite being by all accounts exactly the average height of his time at 5 foot 9 inches and notwithstanding the fact he walked across the mountains of pennsylvania, survived a brutal winters in a hostile environment and, quote, ain't got the muscle or bread of chest, ludicrous on the face of it to join the parade heading west. there is not even a hint of the intellectual depth and intensity

that john chapman would have needed to wrestle his way into swedenborg's troops as he obviously did but that is hollywood. my 5-year-old grandson adored the cartoon as 5-year-olds have been doing for six decades. what is more the disney studio took the appleseed myth and pushed it over the top the story line was already headed that way and studio executives were more than prepared to defend their work. in a lengthy response to florence murdoch dated june 23rd, 1948, and on the wall behind me, one of the wonderful treasures of this museum. the manager at disney's story department explained how the animated film particularly johnnie's guardian angel came to be. johnny was a simple and unassuming man. he believed his mission of planting trees in the wilderness to be divinely inspired and firmly believed in the direct physical manifestation of

heavenly being upon the earth. does it would seem to follow johnny's divine interpretation might take the form of a frontier angel. he didn't stop there. we believe he concluded that our interpretation of the johnny appleseed story though presented with a certain whimsical humor is the nearest approach to a sermon on the subject of brotherly love and unselfishness ever attempted in our medium of entertainment. i can't disagree with that. the cartoon short is exactly what he described. a sweet sermon on brotherly love. as happens with a lot of sermons the men on which it is built disappear completely with the truth being manifested. that is where this book began because it is where i began. i was one of those 5-year-olds who learned about johnny appleseed from the walt disney cartoon treatment. this is the johnny appleseed i knew in 1989--try was 5 years old when a friend for as suggested i take on this

project. two dozen years between now and then might suggest i didn't exactly jump at the idea. other work had priority and why take autobiography of such a known quantity? i did nibble at the prospect off and on and as i did the story got richer and richer and july felt compelled to jump into it. there was the obvious discrepancy between john chapman and johnny appleseed the man and a miss. robert price newspapers that will soon be part of the archives of this museum and learning center plans to tackle the subject masterfully half century earlier but i have been unable to add to that story. what is more that need is far greater now large part to the legacy of the disney cartoon version of johnny appleseed's life which is basically obliterated on chapman from american memory. thanks to john zombie i was able to do some polling for this book. 58% of adult americans fought

the johnny appleseed ever existed or had any historical antecedent and fewer than one of four americans could identify the right half century in which he had done his planting and the right part of the country particularly two states where he spent most of his adult life. i also did some asking around among very well-educated friends of mine. who is chapman? my favorite answer is the guy that murdered john lennon. that was mark david chapman. an end i concluded johnny appleseed might be the best known american about whom most americans know almost nothing at all. i should have also thanks to john zombie and his firms on the international all that polling data including pages of demographic breakdowns is now in the position of this museum and education center which is where

it belongs. there's the sheer mystery of it all has i think about doing this book. thanks to a whole host of researchers including the other indomitable florence florence wheeler who finally nailed down the chapman genealogy we have these tantalizing hints of john chapman. we know where and when he was born. we know more or less where he died though a case can be made that whoever is in turn at the chapman appleseed grave site is not john chapman. we have promissory notes and apple orders in his hand and wonderful trading post ledger in pennsylvania that shows chapman purchase, quote, two small histories shortly after crossing the alleghenies with his brother nathaniel in the early 1797. but histories of what? british royalty? ancient rome? ancient heroin? greece? no way to know. trying to penetrate their history made writing the book

almost irresistible ads did let's be honest the sheer weirdness of its principal character. the mid-19th century historian norton called chapman the artist character in all history and he was every bit of that. i read in my book that he, quote, had the eye of the speculators, the heart of a philanthropist, courage of our frontiers and and the wondering instincts of a bedouin nomads. in fact he had a self canceling nature. he won his land but could never settle down on it. he ran a far-flung nursery business and worked as hard as anyone could and gave away half his stock and a fair percentage of his thin profits. here is the larger point. the nineteenth century ohio was filled with characters, pioneers who built homes inside trees. legendary boozers. rogues' gallery of eccentrics. what really struck me was among all these people chapman's eccentricity stood out as if

painted neon purple. everyone knew him. everyone realized what a singular person he was yet he seems to have been among the most beloved people on the frontier. that line of exploration in the context of the times is where the story deepened for me. how westward expansion became dammed up at the ohio river. the fact that the northwest territory was the huge real-estate event waiting to happen when chapman arrived on the shores of the river at the end of the 18th-century. the way the second great awakening swept over all of this with meetings that drew 20,000 people and often involve as many as two dozen creatures from a rainbow coalition splintering and reforming christian denominations. john chapman lived an often lonely life deep in the woods but was also an integral part of all these forces crawling around him as nurser tha

the noted swedish scientist, a man widely thought to have been perhaps the greatest mind of 18th century europe, and undeniably the transfer in the news that john chapman life. i suspect -- in fact i know many of you here in this town andwas school with such nature truths know as much or far more aboutei sweden than i do, so i'll spare you my ignorance on the subject. the story swedenborgian told is so rich i can't resist retellinl it. maybe this is well known, so i

apologize for repeating the story.ry. as having dinner by himself late in the evening at a london chophouse 1745 when the room suddenly went dark in the floort began raising thehe snakes. beg snakes. swedenborg looked to the corner of the room and saw an old man sitting there and offered in four words of stern advice. don't eat so much then disappeared as the returned to light. later that night the same man reappeared to swedenborg in a dream identified himself as god and began revealing a hidden truths of the bible. who can resist a story like that? that is what happened time and again. something unique was waiting around every corner. that gets me to the mythic character johnny appleseed himself and the final interest -- mystery of john chapman. the book is subtitled "johnny appleseed: the man, the myth, the american story" because i hope i adequately show that the

myth of johnny appleseed keeps getting reinvented generation by generation. in the late 1800'ss and early 1900s he was a symbol of american innocence. a time before the civil war ravaged the land and native americans had been driven into does more reservations and western expansion swept away the suppose even the country had once been. two decades later after the christian temperance union laid siege to hard cider johnny re-emerged as spokesman for the healthful properties rather than the inebriating one of america's favorite fruit. in the 1900s the disney studio turned johnny into a sermon on brotherly love and selfishness. advertisement in the 1950s and 60s praised his financial shrewdness. since his refinances were a complete mess. by the mid-1970ss so-called johnny appleseed traipsing around the countryside selling

canada seeds -- sowing cannabis seeds. so this constant reinvention continues into our own time and distinctly modern interests in scaling back, going local and preserving this wonderful creation we have been handed. two centuries before there was a simplicity movement john chapman created a life style that was simplicity itself. a level of consumption that would drive the national economy back to a barter system. the occasional school, rare tavern meal or night under a rented room for. the swedenborg books. that was all the earth's resources he seems to have needed and the books he recycle did fairly well. johnny didn't merely live the land. he barely touched it even though he walked it constantly. it is a gift to be simple and free, and give to come down where you ought to be the old

shaker hymn goes and when we find ourselves in a place just write it will be in the valley of love and the like. could there be a better 42 word summary of john chapman's life? long before all but a handful of people realize what a fragile creations this earth is chapman and appleseed were there too, when nature as if she were a newborn baby and that might be the greatest gift of our own time. john chapman had scripture urging among not only the bible but swedenborg. all things in the world exists from the divine origin closed with such forms in nature as enable them to exist and perfect their use and correspond to higher things but however it came to be by god's hand or nothing more than a cosmic accident and whatever label one comes to the challenge, environmentalism, secular, planetary survival, this whirling global need someone to show how to love it better and as he always was in life johnny appleseed is waiting out there

even now at that razor-thin line between present and future, man and myth, real and the imagined ready to lead the way. a lot of factors propelled chapman into appleseed, man and myth. the natural tendency to exaggerate a good story, the times and the fact that so few fred held the man to the real world. i also think john chapman -- this dawned on me as i was working on the book. john chapman himself played a central role in the transformation. he liked to tell stories about himself. his hairbreadth escapes and amazing stamina. he was his own wandering minstrel. while he talked about many subjects especially for an essential loner the one thing john chapman never talked about were the actual details of his life. he was well-known in fort wayne when he died in 1845. he had been living in and around the place for more than a decade and married in an obituary.

how old he might have been, the obituary writer clearly had no clue. and no clue to where he had been born or where he lived before coming to indiana except the vague sense it was somewhere in a high of. he lived in the area of cleveland and while chapman can associate it with 16 counts in ohio cleveland is not one of them. that is how it was all the way along with john chapman. people recalls his heroic feats. a marathon like run through the night forced of indian raiders. legendary acts of kindness rescuing abuse forces and giving a few bits of clothing to pioneers even worse off than he was. they knew him as a virtual st.. age on the baptist of the wilderness. about the essential man they knew almost nothing. it is as if john chapman was rehearsing for the part of johnny appleseed all along. if i might i would like to read this short epilogue with which i

close the book and promise it won't spoil the story or take too long. the epilogue is called by johnny. a close friend, a lawyer has a vision of john chapman building is in closures, planting his seeds and twirling the whole night long in raptors concord with whatever he conceived of as the universal divine. i can see that. chapman or appleseed might have out swedenborged swedenborg. god talked for him through every we've and rock and every atom of creation. how could he not twirl in beloit? his famous loneliness might not have been so lonely after all. as william dean howells once wrote, quote, if his believe was true and we are surrounded by spirits, evil or good which are evil or good behavior in fights

the beam of our companies and this harmless, loving half crazy man walked daily with the angels of god. i can see henry david thoreau in chapman. two children new england living deliberately in nature. at the very moment john chapman lay dying in fort worth henry david thoreau was digging foundations for his celebrated cabinet bolden. for all his intellectual independence henry david thoreau never cut the lifeline. walden was within easy walking distance of the world he had always known. even as he was rhapsodizing of life in the woods henry david thoreau was carrying laundry home to his mother. not so chapman. from his 20s on he had no tether left. in article for the december 1979 american heritage magazine edward hoagland suggested chapman left the diary behind him might be compared to john james audubon or george catlin,

the indian portraitist. i like that. certainly a diary would not have been wet henry david thoreau's writings were. a critique of the industrial revolution. chapman lived his critique. the nature he left gave himself over to and vibrated through his entire being like walt whitman. years ago i spent a long night with the washington d.c. emergency psychiatric response team. heroic men and women tending to the certifiably insane who had been institutionalized for a very hospitals. most of those they treated that might reliving in the city's parks short walk from the capital. these are women convinced they had been castrated by demons. men essentially baying at the mission. one man told me when he walked down the street and saw the stars overhead he was convinced each star was part of an intergalactic space fleet that was looking to him for direction. if i turn right they will turn right. if i turn left they will turn left. what if i turn the wrong way?

we found him paralyzed in the middle of an intersection. the sky was filled with stars. i can't help but recall those people when i think of johnny appleseed. they were dressed roughly the same. odd bits of castoff clothing sometimes with meaning. they smelled horribly as chapman probably did. their brains were on fire. occasionally their eyes almost glowed as they talked as his were said to. by modern definitions john chapman almost sternly was in sane. if you talk to god it is for. if god talks to you it is schizophrenia. i think of the woods that surround the office where i wrote much of this book how light shines through the trees and woody simple choi is to turn away from these words and walk among black walnuts and locusts beyond my windows beckoning me to join them. there is a pleasure in the woods lord byron wrote in child harold. there is a society where none in

truth. so it was for john chapman. to go easy in this busy world and walk those woods and feel the sunlight on your skin and shine and the simple as johnny appleseed to me. that is what i have to say. i will be glad to take any questions anyone has and there will be some. i actually am going to throw out the first question. i have been somewhat criticized in print and perhaps rightly so for suggesting he was almost certainly in sane. does that strike those of you who know the story almost as well as i do as completely over the top? anyone want to venture an opinion on that? i am sorry. [inaudible] >> the impression we have of john is probably a lot like a

lot of people in our lives that aren't normal or typical but at the same time operate in society and not certifiably insane but maybe instead someone who operates differently. and autistic person. >> that might have been the real problem. it is a word that i threw around too casually perhaps. it sold 500 copies. what am i going to do? live with that i think. we have a mike over here. might want to start with a question. >> i have been studying john probably twice as long as you did. i am fascinated that you seem to have found twice as much information that i have in half as much time you were dedicating yourself. i was curious how many trips did

you make and how many places did you go and how many years did you the vote because this is non-fiction and you needed to do research into things that are not that well-known and curious how you did that. >> this book started in 1989 when a friend said to me what to write a biography of john chapman, johnny appleseed. i thought i hadn't done anything about it but when i started going through my files i have told things like lexus nexus. those old printers that have things you have to tear off on the side. horrible equipment. in terms of the actual writing that part was probably 14 or 15 months. the research was double that. ..

i had been driving across the alleghenies and the pennsylvania turnpike for years, no trouble ey look you say, you know, just think about all this. so that was part of the. and then, frankly google has been making life so much easier. every county in ohio every county in ohio i think i can safely say and indiana has a history of the county between 1855 and 1880 and often two or three google has digitized all of these histories and i have thought when i started doing

this i was expending month at the library of congress. which for me is about a 65 minute -- a 65-mile drive and 130 round-trip and you have to take the metro down to the library of congress and sit there and you have to wait 45 minutes at a bare minimum while they get your books and bring them back up. i just for months of my life disappeared to the library of congress. it is a great place by the way if you have never been there. please go. is digitize and you find a book you want come you press a button and it is on-demand printing. arthur holberg, arthur davis holberg what is his name? had this wonderful 11 by emma history of transportation of america. it is magnificent stuff and for 15 bucks it shows up at your door five days later. pretty amazing stuff. anyone else? please.

i think the microphone is coming your way. >> i wondered if in your exploration of material available like the murdoch records here and other places you have been, did you sense that there is much else that that has not been discovered that some other writer might come along and say, i wonder what else is new that i haven't known about just yet, but that is yet to be discovered and written about? >> i think there definitely is. for example, one of the things i was hoping so much, i think there's a chance that he was baptized by william hargrove, the baltimore -- baltimore new church preacher in brownsville pennsylvania in 1806 or 1807. i can't remember which year. 1806, thank you. of baptism that took place in the river and there were 30 or

40 people. so, it turns out hargrove's papers are in theory that the frank something something, can't think of the library, the historical society in baltimore -- i go there and i open up his journals and it has 1806. the reference was -- i looked in the back upon's john chapman and the page corresponded and i knew he recorded the names of all those people he baptized. well this was john something chapman who live somewhere else. they were john chapman's over the place. part of the problem is chapman's cat naming each other john and nathaniel. it drive you crazy and all the females are elizabeth. they are all over the place. so that, and then i had, then i had a cup of coffee two months

ago. kevin baxter who graduated from this institution. kevin said you know that could ea repository in monterey, california. by then it was too late for me to find it. but, i think that the library people have done a spectacular job, but you know there is more. there is always more. i mean, look at the letter that elizabeth chapman wrote to her husband on her deathbed essentially in 1776, may of 1776. a spectacular letter that didn't come to -- 150 odd years so there of are letters lying in trunks around here not maybe by chapman but by those who knew him. and somewhere is the milo williams manuscript and milo williams manuscript is a motherload for those who want to

pursue this. sally, you have got to find it. i couldn't. i just couldn't find it. anyone else? >> john was known as a storyteller. what was your favorite story that you included in the bible -- not the bible, in the book? >> the favorite story? well, he told it but others told the too. it was the story of the mansfield to mount vernon run. do you know that one? oh, k.. the years 1812. there has been -- the indians are, the war of 1812. petrides are making common cause for the british or everybody thinks. there is an event that takes place, horrible event that takes place in mansfield actually. they are rounding up green tree indians to send them to this very place, right here, green town indians to send them so

they will be out of the british -- so they can sign them up for the cause. they march them two miles away and they interthem and they march them and burn their village. one girl, 12 years old i think she is, happens to be visiting from another tribe. her father comes to take her away and they shoot the father and they him and they scalp him. the soldiers are drinking whiskey out of his scalp. it is a scene beyond description in terms of horror and of course they were avenging -- of venice, bands, events, events, cycle. so word comes the indians are on the warpath. meanwhile, the american -- the garrison of soldiers and mount vernon sent their troops to march these indians tour bonna -- urban. there is not enough protection so they have this meeting, and i

have to find us in the book. they have this meeting and somebody has to go warn the people and mount vernon. this clear-eyed man bravely steps forward and says, i will do it. he runs presumably through the night and stopping at all the taverns along the way. can you wait? let me see if i can find his real quickly because it is wonderful. he said one of two things while he was doing this and if i can find is quickly enough, which i probably can't. rats. give me just one second. here it is, here it is. yes. so, he runs from -- he leaves mansfield about 6:00 at night in

the dark. he runs to the dark all the way to mount vernon, which happens to be almost exactly 26 miles. by a miracle, the marathon for liberties and the plains of marathon. then he might've run back again. some accounts have them running back again. he told the stories himself. he didn't mind telling the stories but what was wonderful, there were two different memories of what he said. he would stop at every cabin and one pioneer son remembered him screaming, fly, fly for your lives, the indians are murdering and scalping in mansfield. someone remembered him calling out this message. the spirit of the lord is upon men and his anointed me to blow the chump at in the wilderness and sound an alarm in the forest, for the whole the tribes of the heathen are around about your doors and devouring flames follow after them. imagine saying that after running 15 miles. and apparently he set a time and

again. he didn't have to say it on the way back. could he have done it? ultramarathon as ever and 52 miles in six hours. he had 11 hours. nobody knew the woods better than he did. he was 38 years old at the time i believe and in excellent physical condition so with all the stories, there's the possibility that something is true about them. another one he liked to tell was he escaped indians by pulling his canoe onto a passing ice floe in the allegheny river and the next thing he knew, he was so relaxed he fell asleep in the canoe 100 miles down river. he finally pushed his canoe often comes back up. he told that story a lot. so that is why, as there was doing this he came upon me more and more that there's a certain complicity in the myth and i don't know but i speculate in the book and if you have read it i speculate in the book that well, how do i put it?

in order for the myth to be borne the man had to die in a way. and there was nothing holding him to his family. he had his father, well his father died two years after he moved to ohio but his stepmother in the lunch of half brothers and sisters were living only 80 miles away in northern marietta in the duck creek settlement near what is now dexter city i think. 80 miles was an afternoon stroll for johnny appleseed. and while they have all these histories of people in all these counties there is a wonderful history of washington county were all this took place. there is no mention of john chapman, johnny appleseed and everybody else appears in it which leads me to believe he never went back to visit his family. so i don't know what it was. there are a bunch of possible reasons for that. anyone else, please? i've could drone on for hours.

[laughter] sally, yes please. >> i was kind of curious did anybody ever. [inaudible] so being swedenborgian anyone who didn't claim him as one of their own but just as part of their communities in a sense as he did stay with people a lot? >> you know there is a story somewhere. no, that was a universal unitarian universalist -- universalist who we got very mad at him through his book at him. no, no the quakers wind in and out of the story but no. i never saw any evidence of that. that is another -- that is another thing to be discovered. to just open this up, that was a

wonderful part about writing this book. every time you turn out -- turnover rockers another story to be told. we were talking about it earlier, all the sort of family connections. john chapman's mother, first cousin was a guy who became known as count rumford and as fascinating a character as you are likely to find. a sort of amoral benjamin franklin. an absolute genius who also was a complete -- but you know, i ended up cutting pages and pages out of the final manuscript. i would get so fascinated by these people and you can only tell so much of the story. eyes on the prize is my wife kept reminding me. anyone else? yes? back there.

>> is there any mention in your book about his feelings about nature? i remember there was a story about a rattlesnake and not killing mosquitoes around the campfire? >> thanks for mentioning that. yet this hindu ascetic law to him and again these are stories that i should've mentioned. the famous story where he presumably stepped on a rattlesnake and a rattlesnake bit him and he dug his side into it and came back instinctively and he came back and said the only recorded distance of killing an animal and he came back and saw dead on the ground. he was devastated by what he had done. the other story about putting out the fire so the mosquitoes wouldn't be burned. you and i are pushing them towards the fire. he doused the fire. so no, there was this peer animistic quality.

as i tried to say and the epilogue, he really did -- another story. why he planted apples by sea. he talked about this. because the apple them seals the -- as surely as the human limb doesn't so you can only plant by sea. in. in fact is a very inefficient way to plant apples because you know apple seeds themselves are heterozygous. am i pronouncing that correctly? it means every appleseed contains the genetic material for every body if apple ever made, so if you plant in appleseed, if you have a delicious gala apple and save the seeds and put them in the ground your chances of getting a gala apple from the tree are about one in 100,000. and what's more, apple trees when you plant a seed referred to their native state and their native state of central asia, where they had to do great data with this canopy.

they would grow to 70 feet sometimes and it would take 30 years to produce a crop. it is not a very efficient way to plant apples that but many of you know michael pollock's take on all of that. he was the frontier bootlegger, unintentionally. it is an interesting story and people certainly come apples were primarily putting -- put to the use of making hard cider and vinegar. i don't think there is any intention to it. and of course he was selling the seeds and not selling apples. it was a dollar store business. pile them high and watch them fly, sold them for pennies. not a bad motto. any other questions? let me say just one little pitch at the end and then i will be quiet. i just want to close by saying how lucky i have been with this book, lucky with the help i've gotten from people like joe joan arthur over here, arthur's

cousin jeanie woodson from a publisher simon & shuster, editor alice who were bound and determined this would not be only good but a beautiful book. i happen to think the cover is a beautiful cover. the papers be the one they did everything just right. the maps add enormously to the story and best of all from my point of view there are nine originalist rations in this book that are absolutely magnificent and they were all done by my daughter.

>> now, you look at the life of 19th century davy crockett. michael wallace is the author of said six. he recently gave a talk at the tattered cover bookstore inockei denver. w hour. is on >> thank you so much. it's great to be with you. and it's wonderful to come intou a cd where there is rain. [laughter] i live and my wife suzanne who's

with i live, and my wife suzanne who is with me and 'll be meme years in tulsa, oklahoma where there is money of water and woods. it is a very clean place, but like the rest of this nation it has been stricken and temperatures in triple digits for many many days. that is the way it has been for most of the summer because we are now and the last leg of this national book tour. we have been all over the country. deep into the eastern united states on the other side of the mississippi, where i sometimes go, and all over the southwest and the west, where i prefer to be in a missourian. a native of missouri, have always look the west down the santa fe trail down the emigrant trails.

route 66, the mother road so this is the part of the country that i do like the best, and when i declared my major if you will, as a writer, it was about the american west. not just cowboys and indians, not just the west that old or conjure up when they hear that word, but the contemporary west as well. the pop-culture west, the contemporary west. so, tonight i am delighted to be here, as always. have always had a great experience at tattered cover. this location or the other. i was just saying to someone before the event started, on this particular tour we have had 40 some odd book signings and defense and only one of them has been in a chain bookstore and i

am very happy about that, very happy. [applause] chains are important to me, but independent bookstores are more important to me. the independent bookstores are like my route 66. the chain bookstores are like the turnpikes and interstate highways that i have to take. i prefer to be on the old road, the genuine, the authentic, the personal. so, tonight i am in this unusual position of really presenting three books, two of them brand-new books, not just crockett, not just david crockett but also the wild west 365 from abrams, another brand-new book. and then to reissue, my rascal

son right here in the center, pretty boy charles arthur floyd. the pretty boy book is not brand-new. was originally published many years ago but unfortunately it has been out of print until now, until now meaning my editor the original editor robert wild, probably in my opinion the best nonfiction editor in the country, move from saint martin's, my old house, to norton, great house by the way. and he brought pretty boy back. it is important to me because it was the second of my three pulitzer prize nominations. it is a book that definitely needs to be back in print and it has been optioned for a major motion picture, as has my more recent biography of really the kid, another norton title. so i would be remiss if i

wouldn't share with you at least a spoonful from his rascal son, from charlie floyd, who hated to be called pretty boy. this is really the social history. where this book ends, steinbeck .. 's "the grapes of wrath" begins. so you go from nonfiction to faction -- fiction. if you have read "the grapes of wrath" which i seem you have at least once, eric you are planning to reread, you know talk about charlie floyd in the book because they came down and sequoia county, down in little dixie in oklahoma where floyd resided. they also of course, charlie was also the subject of a wonderful song, the ballad of "pretty boy" floyd written by an oklahoman

that all of you will probably remember from some of his great songs. i'm talking about woody guthrie and his ballad of ricky boy floyd, of course he gave them to joan baez and bob dylan. there is a great line that sets this book from the ballad of "pretty boy" floyd. some men will rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen. now floyd likes to focus on those fountain pens thieves, those bankers who were for closing on others. he truly was, came to find, which to my surprise and actually to my glee he was a sagebrush robin hood. a very interesting unmanned. so let me give you the spoonful if i can from 30 boy, the life and times of charles austin floyd. it is the prologue to the book.

it is short and a little vitter suite. the farm near clarkson, ohio, october 22, 1934. alongside every outlaw survives beyond brief days hover this nameless legion of the law does not know or may not touch. they call them protective angels if you like. and that is a quote from when the daltons road by imaging dalton. charlie floyd ran for the trees and the freedom that lay beyond. if he could just get across the field of corn stubble to the tree line, he would be safe. the weeds in the wild grape vines, the honeysuckle and the brambles would grant him yet another reprieve. he would race into the woods and down the slopes, a steep hills and across the crumbling masonry

of abandoned canal locks filled with water from the recent autumn rain. he was known to some as a sagebrush robin hood and two others of the phantom terror, but he was most commonly called "pretty boy" floyd, public enemy number one. he was invincible and he always got away. the weather was warm on this october afternoon. charlie's white shirt and silk underwear with soiled and sweaty and he needed to shave and a bath. his dark blue suit was stained and covered with hundreds of tiny thistles, spanish needles which ran the length of his sleeves and trousers. he was a country boy, dressed in a city slicker's close. a farmer's wife had given him ginger cookies and apples that morning and he stuffed them in his suit coat pockets. he grabs a 45 pistol in one hand while his other pistol was talked in the top of his

trousers. moments before he had -- with stewart and his wife florence. the farm couple had kindly agreed to give him a lift up the road a ways and their automobile away from the farm owned by his sister, ellen congo. charlie had passed an hour with her. she had sent them a hot meal and inside the farmhouse she helped the dollar bill the stranger had insisted she take in exchange for the plated spareribs. ellen congo watched him walk down the dinner she had prepared. he said in a rocking chair on her porch and ate in silence. afterward she saw him pacing around, waiting for stewart and his wife to finish with their corn husking. charlie fingered the keys in the car's ignition, deciding not to steal the machine. he waited for the farmer to come

along. just before they walked out of the cornfields, charlie pulled out his pocket watch. it was almost 4:00 in the afternoon. sunset was about an hour and a half away. he stared at the 50-cent piece attached to the watch. ellen recalled that he smiled when he wrote some dirt off the cameo ring he wore. no one knows but perhaps he thought about ruby dempsey or the cotton fields of oklahoma and the times before he went on the scout. an airplane, an unusual sight in those parts in 1934 drone overhead. charlie turned his face toward the cloudy sky. the reins of the past few days had disappeared and even though it was deep in autumn, there were smells of new life in the woods for the maples showed their true colors. killing frost would give way to snow that would enrich the land.

ellen conkell watched as the stranger climbed into the backseat. her sister-in-law got up front as allen's rather started his automobile. they waved goodbye and she went back to the kitchen chores. suddenly she heard machines driving up to the front of her house and the sound of car doors slamming shut. when she looked out the window again, she saw a band of men in suits carrying guns. they began fanning out over her property. the stranger jumped from her brother's car, behind the corn crib and began his run across the field toward the trees. the run only lasted a few seconds. it must have seemed forever to charlie. maybe it was like one of those dreams filled with monsters that seemed to last forever into a motion. many years later a federal agent remembered charlie ran like an athlete that he cut and dodged

in a broken field sprint. cookies and apples fell from his pockets and bounced on the ground. someone yelled for him to hault and then gunfire erupted and the boland's bounced in puffs of dust around his feet are good he ran on toward the trees. he gulped den mouthfuls of freedom as he ran. chester smith, a policeman from east liverpool and a sharpshooter who would probably fought in france in belgium knew the man running away was charlie. there was no doubt in his mind. it was now 10 minutes past 4:00. smith shouldered his 32 winchester rifle. the two game at them the man burning in sig zags across the field. when he had charlie and his sites, smith wrapped his finger around the trigger. he took a breath and held it. he slowly squeezed.

mr. floyd. [applause] .. although he did not meet his and any ohio cornfield as you all know. i was talking to her friend it dinner tonight and it is off to a great start. we have incredibly good reviews from "the wall street journal" to texas monthly. the texans, i am so please, have totally endorse this book and the bright runs, the critics, the scholars because i'm pretty hard on texas in this book, as i should be and am, but there reviews of my late mother could have written and i'm pleased

with that. [laughter]mrcr now, my first exposure to mr. crockett, this in and the muggle american icon and ith for one can remember me, the exact day. it was a frosty night. december the 15th, 1954 in my hometown of st. louis. and abc television had just aired davy crockett, indian fighter, the first of three episodes produced by walt disney for his studios, then a newd sim series that had premiered only two months earlier. par was called simply, disneyland much like the part that would soon appear in anaheim. it was called that for quite ang

while. w this anthology series but there were a variety y of numbers -- like other names including one that you probably most remember, the wonderful world of disney. which would become one of the longer showing prime-time programs and american televisiob history. that evening i myself was nine years old, but i could have predicted the show's success. i was hooked myself you can. when you wish upon a star sung by the cartoon insect jiminy cricket from the soundtrack of the movie pinocchio. longtime disney announced 35 and you'll remember his voice if you think back, dick wesson, he introduced walt disney, and with some of visual assistance from a flittering tinker bell, uncle walt police to this legendary frontier character, davy

crockett. i was sitting in the in style right in the middle of my mother's grave carpet in the living room. my parents behind me. all of a sudden, as if like a runaway train, crockett came crashing out of that 12 and screen tv of our 1950 table model rca victor said. and as they say, i was a goner. with only moments after this larger-than-life rocket appeared clad in buckskin and wearing, of course, that coonskin cap, i had been won over. my physical nine year old heart pounded. i must tell you, that was an incredible year. that past summer, just months before, and two separate occasions down at sea mists and bar at the mother's story now long defunct department retail

store in san louis, my mother had brought me down to meet some people there on that big parking lot. and there i was. 7:00 on a saturday morning. i looked up, and it's william boyd, hopalong cassidy, standing there with that fine horse of his. i really thought he was top drawer. you know, he never lost that black cat in a fight. he always kept it on. i'd just like him very much. and then there was a 1-2 punch because the next saturday i go back down again with my mother and there is dagen run all the standing there, the cisco kid. the beautiful keep track and bridle. a great smile. the cisco kid. i did not wash my hands for two weeks. now on that december night both

of those men were instantly demoted the lower rungs on my list of heroes. even, i'm here to admit -- and im st. louis all the way, i believe st. louis cardinal red to this very moment. but even stand, number six, swimming stan the man, the legendary cardinal outfielder whose name was literally s in granite at the top of that heroes list, even the man was in jeopardy of being toppled. so by that time that first episode ended, this image of crockett has betrayed by that gangly former marine from texas, the 29-year-old, firmly ensconced in my mind. i did not even consider staying up for strike it rich or i got a secret. i forgot about the promise of fresh snow and the goods letting

sure to follow. instead, i made a beeline right back to my room where i pored over the world book encyclopedia entry for crockett. i dreamed of this swashbuckle there with a proclivity for dangerous behavior which, of course, as a red blooded american kid, i found it to be a most commendable quality. and, as i would later learned that next morning out in the snow when i ran into this thanks brothers and then my good pal johnny, i was not alone. they have all seen it, too. all of you have. more than 40 million people turned into disneyland that wednesday night. by the time this second episode, at davy crockett goes to congress, aired on january 16th, 1955, followed by davy crockett at the alamo, i along with much of the nation,

especially the growing ranks of the boomer generation was swept up in the credit frenzy, and we wanted more and more. it came, and it came big time in the form of really an unprecedented merchandising whirlwind in which sprocket was commercialized in ways that would have been unthinkable to the man himself, although he would have liked it very much. every kid, of course, had to have a coonskin cap like davies. almost overnight the wholesale prices of recon pelts soared from $0.25 a pound to $6 a pound. it resulted in the sale of at least 10 million for recaps and causing ike eisenhower to damn near put the little beast on the endangered species list. now, with only months -- just a few months of the premier in more than $100 million, and a

hundred million dollars in $1,955, was told out not just for recon gaps, but for more than 3,000 different crockett items. as some of you step up, i assure you admit you still have some of these items start to way, because they include pyjamas and lunchboxes. i know someone back there has some davy crockett underpants. [laughter] comics, moccasins, toothbrushes, games, clothing, torre rifles, sleds, curtains. goes on and on. and then there is the song, that can seat theme song. the ballad of davy crockett. it sold more than 4 million copies. remains number one on the top-10 list for 13 weeks. that spring, warm spring night may 7th, 1955, there i was back on the floor sitting indian style with my great cap on. out comes on the screen giselle

mackenzie. she sings the top-10 hit of the week on your hit parade. like every one of my pals, i knew, by god, those words were all true. of course there were. but we saying his ballot at the top of our lungs as we built forts from old christmas trees and cardboard boxes and transformed the school grounds into our own version of crockett country. crockett became our obsession. now, i realize it is hard for anyone to say -- born after 1958 to recall this frenzy that swept america in the fifties. so profound was crockets cultural inundation that no baby boomer can fail to recall this charismatic american hero's name. and this recognition, to my way of thinking, is a good thing. but, the veritable flood of

misinformation about crockets life that resulted, something i became very much aware of later in my life and suddenly proved while researching this book, which, in part, motivated me to watch this book and has created a crooked mythology that continues to this day. so, my good friends, this is not just another straightforward chronological biography of davy crockett cradle to grave, nor does it focus just on that one slice from the big carpet by, the alamo. there is much more to crack it than the last few weeks of his life, and it is not a regurgitation of the many myths, many, many myths, and total lies perpetuated over the years. this is a book for people interested in learning the truth or at least as much as can be uncovered about both the historical and the fictional crockett and how the too often

became one. hopefully readers will gain some new historical insights into the actual man and how he captured the imagination of his generation and later as well. so, now, a few spoonfuls from crockett, the lion of the west. the first is just a graph or two from my preface. the other into david crockett was first and foremost a three-dimensional human being, a person with somewhat exaggerated hopes and will check to fierce. a man who had, as we all do, both good points and bad points. he was somewhat idiosyncratic, possessed of often unusual views, prejudices, and opinions that govern how he chose to live

his life. crockett could be calculating and self aggrandizing, but also as valiant and indeed as resourceful as anyone who runs the american frontier. as a man he was both authentic and contrived. he was wise in the ways of the wilderness and most comfortable when deep in the woods on a hunt. yet, he often did hold his own in the halls of congress, a fact that distinguished him from so many other frontiers and. remarkably, he enjoyed fraternizing with men of prestige and fancy parlors of philadelphia and new york. crockett was like none other, a 19th century in england. he fought under andrew jackson call later to become jackson's bitter foe on the issue of indian -- the issue of removal of indian tribes from their

homeland. crockets contradictions extended beyond politics. he had only a few months of formal education, yet he read the bard. he was neither a buffoon, nor a great intellect, but a man who was always evolving on this stage of a nation in its adolescence, a pioneer whose dreams amply reflected a restless nation with a gaze pointed toward the west. perhaps more than any one of his time david crockett was arguably our first celebrity hero, inspiring people of his own time as well as the 20th century generation. the man, david crockett, may have perished on march 6, 1836, in the final assault on the alamo, but the mythical davy crockett, now an integral part of the american psyche, perhaps more so than any other frontiers and, lives powerfully on. and this way his story then

becomes far more than 51 note walt disney legend, while his life continues to shed light on the meaning of america's national character. a spoonful from a chapter entitled killed him of r -- pair. david crockett believe in the wind and in the stars, the son of timothy could read this son, the shadows, and the wild clouds full of thunder. he was comfortable amid the tickets, the quagmire is and the mountain balls. he hunted the oak, hickory, maple, and sweep down the forests that had never felt an ax blade. he was familiar with all the smells, the odor of decaying animal flesh, the aroma of the air after rain and the pungent smell of the forest. he knew the river is lined with

sycamore, public, and will show that precedes the mountains through steep cited gorgeous, this train, many indian influences like the french brawl, pigeon to my public go, the watauga, kusaie, obey, wolf, elk, and the zero buyout. the dimensions of lakes in this dream's studded with age and cyprus. he learned that dark days arrive not with the heat of august, but in early july when the dogs star rises and sets with the sun. he carried his compass and maps in his head. he traversed the land when it was lush than the one times and when it was covered with the frost the cherokees' described as clouds frozen on the trees. the wilderness was, indeed, crockets cathedral.

now i'm going to jump way ahead. sort of toward the end. precut live to the 49 years old. this is early in the last year of his life. he did become total loggerheads with jackson. the creeks and cherokees new a sharp knife. crockett had fought under jackson in the creek wars, so he did not like what he experienced, the atrocities, the killing, the mayhem, and he vowed never to do that again. although he did not keep that pledge. he killed 105 bears in one season. he was a professional hunter of paris, but not of men. and win jackson, who had no use for any native american came up

with the indian removal lot to take those five tribes on the various trails of tears from their homelands in the southeastern united states to but is now oklahoma, indian territory, crockets stood up against it. the only member of the tennessee delegation to vote against it, and it cost him his job. jackson and the others found a candid to run against him and it took his seat. as carter explained, he was beat by a one legman. but he also came up with his famous ," which he said many, many times. you all can go to hell, and i'm going to texas. now, he didn't go down to texas out of a fit of some sort of patriotic honor or something for those rascals down there. anglos have been coming down into the republic of texas in settling with permission of the

government for some years, starting with moses. but then they kept coming. there were not always abiding by the laws. the laws meeting to speak the language, spanish, join the mother church, and eventually not bring slaves. slavery was abolished in mexico long before we get around to that. but these, the gentlemen and ladies, largely seveners, a lot of land speculators and slave traders. the largest slave traders in the country kept bringing their slaves and. and this is what crockett faced when he was down there. he owned a few slaves, but he was not a big landowner. slavery was not a big part of his life or an issue. he wanted to rebuild his life. he was gypsy. he likes to hunt. he thought he keep it back into politics, so he went down there,

found land. he took his own sweet time. it to come along time to get down to texas, and he was not there very long. in fact, a lot of people thought he had been killed. there were newspaper stories. was he killed? well, he was chasing bison up on the river, hunting trees. he was talking to friends. he was telling stories. he loved to tell stories. he was having whiskey. finally he got down there. and this is from a chapter called time of the comet's. finally in early 1836 crockett and his original companions bring their horses in nacogdoches, the oldest town in texas. he was reluctant to leave the good hunting grounds that he had also heard stories about the successes of his old tennessee friend, stephen austin, another land agent or impresario who had

established land agencies and were on their way to becoming wealthy man. croquis believed that at last he could gain his own fortune and a place where he could haunt almost every day of the year. as one often noted, kwok -- crockett was in this state of euphoria. throughout his long ride from tennessee to taxes haley's comet, the most famous of all the celestial nomads was clearly visible, just as it is every 76 years are so. across the land people were in off when they spied the objects slowly making its way through the night sky. for centuries people believed a comet appeared as a harbinger of chaos and disaster. comments were to be feared. when pope even excommunicated haley's comet and declared it an instrument of the devil. the appearance of haley's comet

in (183)510-1836 was blamed for catastrophes around the world, including the horrific fire in new york city that raised for several days and nights. the massacre of 280 people in africa by zulu warriors and wars that erupted across latin america. this seminal indians in florida saw the comments long tail as a sign of that tragedy as soon descended on them as they lost there home and were exiled to indian territory. among many americans, especially anglo texans, haley's comments signaled the impending fall of the alamo. for the tejanos, the people of mexican blood living in texas, the comment was a portent of the mexican army's defeat at san a cento. haley's comet was rediscovered in august of 1835, about the time of crockets to feed for another term in congress. it was visible for an extended

time and can still be seen long enough for enterprising promoters to issue the comment almanac for 1836. it sold well, but not nearly as well as the davy crockett almanac of that year with a cover illustration of crockett waving the mississippi river on a pair of stilts. stories made their rounds in newspapers and future almanacs claiming that crockett and his nemesis, andrew jackson, head towards a truce and that old hickory had commissioned crockets to scale the alleghenies and grain the tail off of the comment before it could charge the earth. by the time the comet finally vanished in may of 1836 not to be seen again until 1910, the ashes of the alamo, the last battle of crockets life, long cold and scattered. and finally from crockets apiece

from el alamo. to those who claimed that god made taxes when they say that figuratively crockett invented texas. his blood and the blood of all who died with him transformed the alamo into an american cultural icon affecting economic and political conditions in texas and beyond. the office used belt drive remember the alamo employed weeks later by sam houston to inspire his force when they captured general santa anna and defeated the mexican army at san his cento still reverberates through history and culture for many anglo texans and others, those three words conjure images of patriotic heroes, and a bass sacrifice, and love of liberty. the alamo remains the most instantly recognized battle in american history put the possible exception of gettysburg. it has been said that not until

the battle of the little big horn and the death of george armstrong custer 40 years after the alamo what americans have a more vain, glorious and meant to rally around. texans also use the alamo and the revolt against mexico to establish republican a state that they believed unique and more special than any other. in 1845 when the republic of texas gave up its sovereignty to become the biggest state in the union that did so with a caveat. depending on whose interpretation of the texas constitution is followed it could secede at any time and split into five separate entities, thus creating four new states. a strong belief among many texans was that their independence, their lone star status had been bought and paid for at the alamo. crockets that sums up the single

most important aspect of his brief stay in texas. his contribution to the lone star state resulted not so much from how he left, but how he died. his impact on taxes to rise precisely from his death in that battered spanish mission, and in death he turned into an even more marketable commodity and he had been in life. the alamo eventually would become the state's biggest tourist attraction and one of the most popular historic sites in the nation. crockets debt helped fuel the flames of rebellion against mexico and also made him the celebrated murder for the cause. this contributed to the creation of the prideful and sometimes bellicose stereotypical image of swagger both from texas bursting with superlatives and pride describing the land that they love. crockets demise also helped in the alamo into the cradle of texas liberty. a monument to anglo westward

expansion. it became known as manifest destiny. there was a david crockett of historical facts, and there is the davy crockett of our collective imagination. the first was a man who led a most interesting and colorful life. the other is the american myth featuring crockett as a symbolic figure with superhuman powers. in this version cracking is frequently used by others to promote their own interest. both crockett and the alamo remain in snared in clouds of math. in the end the rocket was a uniquely american character and a formidable hero in his own right. he should not be judged by his death, but rather by his life, including the good, the bad, and the shades of gray. consider him a legend and a hero, but always bear in mind that he was a man willing to take a risk.

that was what he symbolized, and that is how we should be remembered. mr. crockett. [applause] and last but not least, this other new book. this book is filled with all kinds of rascals sons and daughters. there are no white hats or black cats. they were all great as you will come to find out. i go on to this with my good wife, suzanne fitzgerald wallace. very pleased to acquire the services of robert mack calvin, our good power from down in the hills of santa fe, who has my favorite research library, 12,000 bucks on the american west in that old adobe. rare books, one-of-a-kind books. just intoxicating to go into the

library. hundreds and hundreds of thousands of images, arguably the biggest private collection of west and photography anywhere. he supplied all the photos for my billy the kid book, and 700 of his images grace these pages, many of them never seen before. all kinds of people. it is about the size of an adobe brick, little bit smaller. if you don't like it, which i can't imagine why that would happen, you can always use it as a doorstep. but i will tell you this, don't be intimidated by it. jim billy himself, bloody billy. because you can open it literally anywhere. what we do here, 365 days. every day, every day of the year is something that actually happened on that date. but these entries, the main entries and the photos and illustrations just move chronologically in this century that i chose, 1830 to 1930.

so, it begins with a rocket, and it ends with pretty boring. that 100 years. i think it would be good to give you a few spoonfuls from this book, and i was remiss if -- be remiss if i would not some of to the podium my partner in life, literature, suzanne wallis, to give you a couple spoonfuls of two of the remarkable when we are going to give you in this town. ms. wallace. [applause] [applause] >> lola montez, just after the california gold rush peaked the exotic beauty lola montez no doubt attracted by the abundance of new-found wealth captivated san francisco dandies, shocked their pram ladies, and endured the taunts of rowdy minors.

her original name was marie dolores eliza brazil like gilbert. the irish native and adopted the name lola montez, became a dancer, and had a series of romantic trips with several men. she also served as the confidant and mistress of king ludwig of bavaria, a scandalous relationship that contributed to his abdication and also sent the ban is low attacking. during a tour of the united states low of arrive in california in 1853 and stayed for two years. she quickly became known for performing her famously suggested tarantula dance, and a provocative ballet in which she pretended to become entangled in the spider's web and discovered spiders hiding in the folds of her flowing down.

as she waved her arms, leaped in the air, and it shook her clothing revealing her petticoats, the audiences sat spellbound. she threw lavish parties to mike gave dance lessons a-daughter who became a celebrated star of the american stage and was frequently seen in the company of her pet cinnamon bear. at the dock, 1855, lola broke into tears as he departed san francisco bound for australia. a local newspaper editorial praised her as a noble hearted and generously his many good actors when the steam of citizens. whenever lola wants, lowly gets. cynthia and parker.

on may 191836 a band of indians attacked parker support on the fringes of the comanche frontier, the newly formed republic of texas. in the skirmish that followed five texans were killed, and five others were taken captive, including 9-year-old cynthia ann parker and her younger brother, john. the little girl would become one of the most renowned indian captives in the history of the west. both of the parker children quickly adjusted to the comanche culture. john became a warrior and take part in several raids, well send the and lived as a comanche for almost 25 years. she eventually married the chief and bore him two sons and the dollar -- daughter. their first son became the last great war chief of the comanches. in 1860 texas rangers led by capt so ross swept down on the comanche village killing many

inhabitants and taking others captive, including the long-lost cynthia ann and her 2-year old daughter. flour. they were returned to parker family members, but her many years living with the tribe had changed irrevocably. she had nothing in common with her white relatives and beg to be returned terror indian family. her escape attempt failed, and when her daughter died of influenza and 8064 cynthia and lost all hope. broken in spirit and bitter at her enforced captivity, she starved herself to death. it was not until 46 years later that kwan of parker was able to bring the remains of his beloved mother and his baby sister from texas to oklahoma. he dedicated a great feast to honor the memory of his mother who lived and died as the comanche. [applause] [applause]

>> lola did inspire that line. i thought you might enjoy this entry. a little bit of cowboy and cowgirl in all of us. it is called cowboys, and there are two great portraits of these gents right off the trail, probably in abilene. texas cowboys who had been well described, have a bit of a room on them, maybe a little pomade. they have gotten their favorite dish that kaelin was always want to get that they long for on the trail, either chops' we are some eggs. they probably had a tumble to end the hate and some good, hard whiskey. this is cowboys. some historians claim the workout was first used in

medieval ireland to describe boys who tended cattle. others say the name was bandied about in early america when youngsters such as daniel boone and lady -- later davy crockett herded crowns. even so only after the civil war did the term cowboy come into use. the heyday of the genuine cowboys was brief. it became in -- it began in 1865 when texans returned home after serving the confederacy pour in cash but rich in a range lands teeming with ubiquitous long arms. prior to the were those who hitch rail were usually known as drovers. in the early 1860's -- 1860's texas rangers used the term cowboy as they gathered unbranded rob longhorns during roundups, first of cowhides. by about 1870 branches hired youngsters whom they generally referred to as cowboys to herd cattle up the trails to north

railheads in markets. some only 12 to 16 years old and barely big enough to climb into saddle. not everyone approved of such work. parents, do not allow your boys to love themselves down with mexican spurs, six shooters, and pipes, warned a reporter. keep them off the prairies as professional cal hunters. they're in that occupation who knows, but they may forget that there is a distinction between mind and signed. send them to school, teach them a trade or keep them at home. that was written a long time before willie nelson. i think just one more spoonful. very near the end of that century that we chronicled. it is called simply adios why

it. white shirt and josephine, grow from a prominent jewish family in san francisco lived as husband and wife for nearly 50 years. the couple was the classic case of opposite temperaments complementing each other. herb was quiet and reserved, while his wife was fiery. still, they remained devoted to each other to the end. perp, that end came in los angeles just a few minutes past 8:00 a.m. on january 13th 1929. the old lawman died quietly. jersey later wrote in her published recollections, my darling had breached his last, dying peacefully without a struggle like a baby going to sleep. i don't know how long i continued to hold him in my arms. i would not let him go. he finally had to drag me away. i had gone with him on every

trail he had ever taken since those days it tombstone so long ago. included among his honorary pallbearers were cowboy movie heroes william s. hart and tom next. his ashes were buried in a jewish cemetery just south of san francisco. when jay z died in 1944 she was laid to rest with her husband. cowboys often come to pay their respects. they would off there hats and stand on the manicured grass surrounded by tombstones, topped with menorahs and stars of david. a world away from the blood and smoke of the okay corral. thank you. thank you very much. and now we will entertain questions, comments, and

concerns. and all we ask for is if you have a question to let that bill might get in place. i am anticipating good questions from this bright denver audience. >> i just wanted to thank you for wonderful reading, and i hope that the publishers will select you to read your own work. it was terrific, and i enjoyed hearing you this morning. i am looking forward to it tomorrow. and a stand you will speak again. >> well, he convinced me to stay. i really like this chap. he is, i think, a popular talk-show fellow here in denver, and i really -- i mean, it behooves me to stay for a little bit still into the studio tomorrow. we were very simpatico. i appreciate that.

yes. they are waiting for the microphone. >> hello. june 15th to the package club, and i wondered if you could make any comments? i've was wondering if you want to read this quote. the county and all that. do you want me to bring it to you? >> sure. are you familiar with the story? this is an entry called the cannibal of the slum billion pass. it is about alfred packard who earned a very sinister place in the folklore of the american west as a result of his acquired taste for human flesh. do we have any cannibals in the audience? good. there is usually one or two.

but, i will cut to the chase. the illustration for this is all wonderful kind of down-home peace, and it was called the packard club. there is an image of al packer. written in this town home language. seven democrats in india county, but you, you for racism and eating something -- son of a bitch, ua five of them. eliminate five new deal democrats which makes me a member of the packard club of colorado. charter members round card. there you go. the packard club. [applause] [applause] >> i. coming over here tonight, there

was an announcement on the radio about birth certificate of davy crockett that the court had said the woman who had it had to give it back to the county where you left. >> i have not heard that, but there was no birth certificate. >> the wedding -- >> wedding license, and that's true. he received the wedding license in danger ridge, tennessee. a seat in that old court house. unfortunately some many years ago they pitched it out with a bunch of papers. this woman who lives in florida got a hold of it. so all they have for those years is a facsimile. of course i talk about that little marriage license business in the book. this does not surprise me because i know they have been trying to get it back.

i'm not sure what kind of legal maneuvering went on to get that because, you know, it is their own fault that they did that thing out. i would imagine they played upon her sense of history and would never end, perhaps, there was some money involved, i would think, writes, was always helps. speaking of money, did any of you put a bid in on the billy the kid picture here in denver? i think it was two and a half million dollars. william coke bought it. a lot of big bidding going on. yes? >> one more question. >> let's let this lady come over here. >> sir, you did say something about up of the question.

i hope that i can ask one. you and i come from very near the same place. i was bought -- born in st. louis. very much appreciate your presentation. the question comment combination. i have been a listener for some time. i heard it this morning and heard you. you seemed set apply your talent to some pretty real people. you disparage some rightly. the hollywood fictionalizing of some of these people. i am a person who is very depressed with the way that our country is going. i just wonder if you could throw your astute observation about people and our politicians and our economy and the situation we are facing today. if you were ted say 50 or 100 years from now how would you reflect on the mess that we are in today.

[laughter] well, it's interesting. some of the reviewer is of the crockett book, it actually got into some contemporary issues and talked about him and a reference some of the folks involved in politics today. i mean, they even used his name with people like sarah palin's and folks like that. i can understand that to a certain extent, but not really. it is kind of what i said to him today. i'm not sure i even understand what i said there because it just came to my head, but he said, what about crockett today. i said, well, he would be kind of like a liberal to bagger, which doesn't make much sense to my note. but not really.

he would -- he actually would be considered very liberal today. he became awake, which was the beginning of the republican party. solely not out of any desire to -- to really become of way, but really because of his problems with jackson who, of course, was a democrat. they used crack it and even teased about running a president. some of them were very serious, but that wasn't to be. i think crockett was more genuine than a lot of the so-called down-home candid it's that we have today. and i'll tell you this. he was a lot brighter. [laughter] [applause] [applause]

i think he would probably be astounded by the dumbing down of the country because he was always trying to improve himself. he really did. we found his copy. this guy, who has been trade as a bomb. really, there was something really very compelling about this man. that is what drew me to him. but all of those qualities that i liked so much in crockett i find not an iota of them in the kendis it's that we have today, not an iota. yes. but you have to understand that i am a bomb throwing balls of light. [laughter] [applause]

[applause] >> that was wonderful. >> i loved it. >> we loved every minute of it. >> i'm sure he would be happy to sign your books if you would like to form a line that way. you can come up. we wanted thank you so much for coming, this wonderful evening. >> good to be with you. [applause] [applause] you put me on the spot, but i like that.

as an aspiring journalist i am marty preparing myself for the very small salary that i will be starting out with. >> to be a good journalist you have to be disciplined enough to really put aside your bias and afford the trip. >> the reason my people love "fox news" and movie so much is because it is an experience. it is emotional, his love and hate. it is from the washington journalism and media conference in george mason university aspiring high school journalists on ethics, the role of opinion

and commentary and where they get their news and information in today's multimedia environment, sunday on c-span's duende no i make conscientious earnest fellow trying to do a job and i'm going to do it. i think i've pace at 4:00 in the afternoon i am sure going to get a come hell or high water. >> listen to c-span radio in in the baltimore washington d.c. area at 90.1 fm nationwide on xm satellite channel 119 and on line at c-span radio.org. >> jeff guinn is the author of several books about the old

west, including "the last gunfight" about the the shootout the okay corral.useuin in may, he spoke at the arizona history museum in tucson for 40 minutes. historical society. i'm bruce dinges, director of publication and editor of the current journal of arizona history, and we are here to welcome jeff guinn, the author of the last -- "the last gunfight," the real story of a shootout at the o.k. corral and have it seized the american west. jeff is a former book review editor of the fort worth star-telegram and also the author of the recent best seller, go down together, that's true untold story of bonnie and clyde. welcome. at like tess start up the conversation this evening with the question that i'm sure is on everyone's mind in this room. there are basically three iconic iments in the history of the