that would be but i must tell you it has been my experience that the jesuits schools produce linda blair in the exorcist in the audience and most appallingly it tends to be the female students screening out things. i would not dare say on television, radio or say how loud to one of my friends in the most intimate moments they are so vulgar and monstrous. they are genuinely demonic. .. moments, they are so vulgar. they are genuinely demonic. >> host: and very quickly a follow-up to that caller from rf1, a tweet. recommend any colleges or universities for students seeking an academic atmosphere free of liberal bias? >> guest: oh, great question. definitely hillsdale. i ought to have a list in my head, but i don't. i gather pepperdine. southern schools tend to be

pretty good. because they're in the south. oh, and, of course, kings college, my number one recommendation. and you can live in the greatest city in the world, new york city. it's christian core curriculum. yes, kings collegement what else is there? i'm sure there's some other good ones. it's not a question i answer a lot. and he has another question for me, and i think he's going to quote from one of my books. >> host: well, we're out of time. ann coulter on "hannity & colmes" in '04: >> host: we've got to watch out for spending on the military. that's from '07. here's a list of ann coulter's slender came out in 2002. treason in two dozen three. talk to of liberal if you must come in 2004. dublin '06, if democrats had any

brains that would be republicans in those seven. guilty in 2008. they give her being a guest. >> you're watching book tv on c-span2, 48 hours of nonfiction books every weekend. now on book tv cal robert mccurry appeared to talk about his biography of the roman catholic priest and social activist who has been the pastor of st. sublime the church on chicago's south side tenth 1981. just over 50 minutes. >> thank you for coming out here and coming inside on this in especially beautiful day in chicago. we appreciate you being here.

i cover religion at the chicagoo tribune and have been there for, eight years.t the different dramas and side as that has surrounded his church on the city's south side. he is not just the chicago icona he has become a nationalth catholic icon who really resents social justice and of the things as well in the catholic church besides social justice.speci h especially how priests, clergy,s churches can really communicate th and deal with thee media. i would say positive and has negative ways. he has been a model above.ated the real expert is to my right. this is robert mccrory. bob and i have known each other

for a while. but weston school of journalism. we taught how to cover religioni that's how lineup got to knowe bob. with then he came out with this biography, radical disciple. and so i want to interview bomb today, in front of you here today.ti my first question would be, whye is he the perfect subject for af biography? >> local asked myself that samee question since i started on the book.lly actually, there is a pretty good reason. before i get into reporting i was a chicago catholic priest. my second assignment was as associate pastor at sensible and the church on the far south side of chicago, and that was 1964. t

anybody else here from since the bynum?y gr no. their grandmother. gra joe, good.wh >> 1964. >> probably was. what was the name? i remember that jennings part. o anyhow, when i got there and it was one of the largest catholicn churches in the city. over 30500 families. it was a rolling operation and had been almost since its beginning back in 1916. sn't i knew right away that it wasn'a going to be just a normal assignment. the neighborhood was beginningla to change. the coming of the black sth population as you know if you lived anywhere on the south side, slow, deliberate migration

from the data just south of the loop beginning in the fifties and moving steadily block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood. in 1964 the first black familyee moved in. people were in a considerable ca state of alarm because they hadd seen what had happened in some many other neighborhoods. there was a difference. at the that was that the pastor to mike grandmother would have known hil well. senior john mcmahon, decidedng t that we are not just calling to pick up and run because the are blacks are moving in. hair going to turn this into tha first.f he put a lot of money, no

official number call it something like 800,000 alums off parrish money into the formation of a community organization that might to might create an integrated neighborhood.n it was an organizationo undersell. some of you know him well. he himself is one of the most controversial people in the a history of chicago. a great community organizer.in he sent his men into the neighborhood to try to organizew and when i got there, this was the booming village. twelve messes on sunday. and upstairs church and the downstairs church. some are going on all the time, sometimes two at the same time,s upstairs and downstairs.g in we have seven priests running in

and out. it was very, very busy. but there was this concern, thi, be your. the fear was that thing that wet had to fight against was the terrible, terrible of alarmingtl work of the real estate people who saw that there were profits in this neighborhood, as therehe had been in all of the neighborhoods north and east of us.ould they did it job. they would come down block by block and ring your doorbell ant say, have you thought about selling your house?'v sunday but say, no, we have bees here for ten years and are going to stay. >> said the right. i can offer you $60,000. i can guarantee -- i canay, guarantee it today, but i can't

guarantee it next week.h did you know that out blackock. family just moved in at the end of the block. this would golan. this was a continuing high among really hopeful that it willt work. there were signs it might work.a eventually we came to face reality, it wouldn't work. the real estate power was too ad great. here was too great. everything was exacerbated in 1967 when a bunch of since theke bynum kids were standing in front of the communityof center. a few black kids appeared on tht other side of the street with aw gun and started shooting several times into the crowd. gir the one bullet struck a girl in ther leg and another struck frank t kelly, 17 years old, in theied

heart, and he died immediately. you can see, that was, if anything, eclectic turning poi,h points.if ppl if they didn't have a sign a outside for sale before, now they did. w the movement became a crescendo. they were everybody was gone. they were moving out.nted a lot of people wanted to suppor support monsignor mcmahon. they knew he was a good man. t people knew his heart was in the right place. mch, it was too much.n't you could not blame him. t they had to take the money lovey the kid because they knew they were up against the organizatioa called the organization for the southwest community.roup they did a tremendous -- a tremendous effort, but it was tragic. in 1960 -- by 1969, the number

families in the perrish had gone down from 3500 to about 600. now, there were new black catholic families moving in who had hoped that this would be an integrated neighborhood and who themselves were very active in the osc, the organization, along with a lot of very good minded white folks who lived in that perrish, but it didn't work. 600. i left in 1971 and it was probably down to 350 families, half black, and half still catholic who were staying there, and i left, you know, kind of heart sick because i knew what an effort had gone forth by so many well-meaninged people, and

i field there's no way this -- i felt there's no way this huge complex -- st. sabina has one of the largest institutions on the south side with this great big church and this huge community center, one of the best in the city, a con vent, a school, several that could hold seven to nine priests comfortably and several buildings across the street we owned. we owned it. sabina ran it, and there was no way they could keep that up. the costs were too much. i left heart sick knowing what happened to sabina would be the same thing that happened to many, many of the churches that already experienced the racial transition, and that is it might be sold to a baptist community,

a bannist church, or in many cases, they tear it down. it's too costly to keep up. i left feeling this is not going to work. this is really too bad. that's -- now, i didn't get to the question. [laughter] >> but it was pretty interesting,ed background. 1971 i want to point out that someone else had that year in common, is that when father phleger showed up on the scene?

christmas of 1981, father paylor

was eating breakfast, and he dropped dead. now, you're not supposed to laugh at that. [laughter] it was the will of god obviously, and it was sudden, unexpected. he had had a couple heart attacks previous to that, but nobody expected that, so at that point, mike phleger was the only other priest in the place, so cardinal cody appointed him as temporary administer which is the normal thing to do so mike was feeling a certain amount of oh, maybe i can do something in this very short time, a short window before they appoint a pastor. he was 31 years old at the time, couldn't do much, and he tried to. i could tell you a number of

stories that happened at father's funeral, but i'm not going to say that. already it's in the book. [laughter] the book covers all the things that i'm not telling you, and they are more interesting than what i'm telling you. the book is out there at the bookstore, and they got a lot of copies. [laughter] well, it was decided then that sabina needed a new pastor, a veteran pastor, and the people by then, the black population, as i say it was small, but, you know, it was substantial. they had maybe 250-300 families, catholic black families, who had been working with father phleger during that time, so as was the custom, the priest personnel board scheduled a meeting at the perrish, and open house meeting, and the members of the perrish

council told father phleger, do not come to the meeting, we do not want you there at this meeting, so he being a man who wanted to cooperate with the people, he didn't come, and they said he learned later that the lower, what used to be the lower church was packed. it's a very sizable place itself, just packed that night. never saw it packed like that with people coming in from all over the south side, and the priest personnel board members got up and said, now, here's what we want to do. we want to ask you what characteristics would you want in a new pastor? what are the problems you have in this perrish that a preers would need to be able to handle, and what are the positive things here?

the people sat there. somebody raised his hand and said, we don't want to talk about no characteristics. we want father phleger, phleger, phleger -- the whole church stood up and said, we want father phleger, and the personnel board was unable to continue the meeting. [laughter] they went home -- they went home. now, ordinarily, that would have been a very -- it certainly was a strange thing to have such a unanimous recommendation, and cardinal cody, some of you will remember cardinal cody, he had just closed down a number of black parrishs on the south side, and he was fearful if he got in trouble with the people at sabina even though it was a small group at that time that it would be trouble, so he

appointed father phleger as temporary pastor. now, there is -- there's no such title in cannon law, but he was appointed pastor and became then the acting pastor for -- i mean, after cardinal came for awhile, he was no longer temporary, but acted from day one like he was permanent, and that is 30 years ago, so that explains how he got there and how he got to be pastor. the youngest pastor at the age of 31. >> so what were the characteristics that phleger brought to st. sabina that they wanted so badly? >> those were not the characteristics they were thinking of. [laughter] >> that the priest personnel board was thinking of? >> yeah. ability to work with the people and keep them calm and have a

school, to be able to pay the bills which were astronomical, and the church at that time was getting a heavy -- a lot of money just to keep going. father paylor tried to fund a lot of the parrish at his time with bingo. as soon as phleger was there, he canceled bingo. he said it's the worse thing you can do taking money from little old ladies, and it's not worth the trouble you have to go through. what were the characteristics they were working for is that he would be a hard working pastor is many pastors in black parrishs were and are. the characteristics though that the people were looking for were somewhat different because they

had experienced things about phleger that were different from what they got from the ordinary parrish pastor. phleger was saying let's look at this neighborhood. the people who moved in here, these are good people. these are not, you know, gang bangers. these are good family people, but look at the condition of the streets, the streets at 79th, a business area. all of the business when the whites left, the businesses had left so there was deserted streets, broken windows, and trash and a great gathering place at night for dope selling and prostitution. he was saying to the people we got to get them out of there, not by calling the police, and, of course, they did as most other parrishs did, but he was thinking along the lines of we have to do something, and he was

urging them to think along the lines of dr. martin luther king. as many of you may know if you know anything about phleger, dr. luther king was mike's boyhood hero. he had seen -- phleger as a high school kid, had seen martin marching through the park in 1966, and he had been stunned because he was raised in st. thomas moore parrish, two miles west of st. sabina. he saw king hen as entourage marching through streets and people were shouting and throwing rocks, and they were our own people, kids i knew. he said, i can't believe it. he said, this man, king, was

walking totally erect, totally unbothered, seemingly unbothered, and he said what is the strength in that man that he can walk through hell as it were and keep himself together. he was moved by that experience to go and read up on martin luther king and he has been a great fan of his, so he started to teach the people the tactics of defense -- what am i thinking of? nonviolent protest, nonviolent dissent, and it -- the people were beginning to, for the first time, thinking along the lines of what can we do? what can we do, we parrishs? they saw in mike a kind of

leader they had never seen before, and those were some of the things. they also saw his genuine interest in black literacy, his respect for their culture. mike plays the piano excellently, and he nows music, so he knew the kind of people he needed to lead the black khoir -- choir and the dancers, and they saw him as they said a white man with a black man inside, reverse oreo is sometimes they said. [laughter] >> when i go to services at st. sabina, and when i tell people to go there, i tell everyone you haven't lived until you go to a service at st. sabina. just reserve three or four hours of your day to do it, but when you hear him preach, you close your eyes, and you can't believe

there's a blond blue-eyed guy standing in the pulpit. >> yeah. >> he's adopted this candence in his speech. have you talked to him and how his delivery style evolved? >> he said he didn't evolve any style of preaching. he simply spent his whole time with black people and listened to black preachers and said i don't try to preach like a black preacher, but he does. when you talk to him, there's a little bit of a black style even when i'm sitting talking, and he's not trying to give a sermon or anything. he's -- but he has so absorbed that, and i find it's interesting. white people often get upset about that. what's he doing imitating black

preaching. you ask black people around there and they say we have no probably with that. he can talk any way he wants when he talks because he makes sense, and that's what we're looking for. he won't admit he's ever really tried to use black cadences and black rhetoric, but he's seen so much of it and it's in his talk. a lot of people who became active members at st. sabina saying i stopped in the church one day, sat there, and i didn't know much about it, and i heard a black preacher up there just going at it. afterwards i want the to see what he looked like, and i said, what? what? [laughter] i've never seen a white person do that, and that's very irritating i think to white people and the black people who come to sabina have no problem whatsoever with it. >> so let's go back to those

qualities you talk about. you talked about the priest personnel board looking for loyalty in a priest, someone who could keep the people calm, and those two qualities i must admit i raised my eyebrows, and i'm wondering how, if father phleger, tell me how father phleger reflects those qualities, perhaps differently than the priest personnel board had in mind. >> yes, somewhat differently. he said, look, your loyalty first is to god, and the loyalty is to people whom you serve, and he did not think that it was his duty to keep the people calm and quiet. it was his duty to rows the people up -- rouse people up because there were evils in the neighborhood, and it was up to them to do what they could about it. that was part and parcel of his

agenda from day one so they began very quietly -- they noticed one of the first things they noticed is that the mom and pop stores which were about the only grocery stores, you know, places where you could get pop and bread and peanut butter. there were few of them. they were still there in the neighborhood, but they also featured right out in front of everything the drug pair fee nail ya, you know, papers and pipes and pouches, everything you need for your marijuana stash or your heroin stash, and he didn't like that. he didn't like that so instead of -- he talked about it from the pulpit, and then he started going into the stores saying we don't think this is a good idea. the guy said, hey, it's not a good idea for some people, but for the owner, it is.

we make a lot of money on this stuff. he'd leave, and then come back in a week with 150 people who would stand there in the store and outside the store and say, we want this stuff gone. it would take awhile, and there there would be marchs and the community threatened they would not buy from that store, and eventually, it started to work a little bit, a little bit. those were some of the first and earliest moves in the direction of action. now, you say loyalty? you know, he sees loyalty a little bit differently than the cardinal. there's an interesting way -- there's a lot of ways at looking at church whether you're a cat lick or not. there's a book called images of

the church which speaks of five images, not five ways of looking at church, and the first image is church as institution, and that's the way if somebody says what comes to your mind when i say church, and people say, oh, yeah, the church i go to or a big church with a steeple. the church as institution is just one way, and churches' institution consistents of structures all over the world, and in the case of the catholic church, it consists of a man on the top over in rome, and the whole line of people under him, cardinals, arch bishops, priests, and down blow, lay people, normal, i'm ordinary people -- i mean, ordinary people, and you think of laws, rules, and regulations. that's a lot of the ways

cardinals think of church first, as institution. another way to look at church is community, not with some people having control over other people, but a community of equals. ..

it thinks it needs to do, whereas in church as going out into the world insane, what do you need to? what can we do? how can we work with you for good? that idea was heralded at the second vatican council, if you know much of the history of the catholic church. time for the church to stop living inside and taking care of just its own people and looking out with pity at the rest of the world. did that totally, but it is time for the jurors to begin to the kid its agenda set from the outside, not to live from the inside. i think mike is their representative. i don't even know if you read this. he is our representative of church and servants. and the author of the book said,

of those five images of the church, the seven model comes into conflict to some extent with the others. the one that really comes in conflict with the most times is a church as institution. who represents the church as institution in the chicago archdiocese? the cardinal, the arch business -- large spaceship. almost are inevitable built-in when you have somebody that is speaking in a kind of prophetic way. sticking to do radical things. come out and march, take time to

did things to change the way the world looks, at least the world that they know, their immediate world. when people started to do that, he did not get a lot of support from other priests. frankly, people did not want to get involved in that sort of thing. for the most part they were told not to get involved in that sort of thing. let the police do it. get the police involved. you know, the proper authorities, politicians. it is that the priests job to go up and get the people of said. >> but why is that church in such conflict? this seems like that too would get along great. >> well, you wish they would come but the history shows that they don't.

you know, this is nothing new. st. francis, saint dominic, all of the great people of the church who were prophetic leaders. considerable trouble. st. thomas aquinas got excommunicated. we won't go into that. a lot of the people who were leaders, they feel like they are -- they are looking more to the people for marching orders and a less to the authorities at the time. it is almost inevitable, it seems to me, trying for centuries. you know, it is not just with church. i mean, all institutions have struggles with the guys of the gal that does not tow the line totally. does not follow the rules as they had been set up, that sort

of thing. it is an almost inevitable thing. i'll tell you just a quick story in the book. very early in his time he looked around the parish and saw all of the billboards within the parish boundaries, and there were a lot, or advertising only two things, cigarettes and liquor. he thought, this is a terrible thing. the kids go to school, and all they say is it butts and booze being advertised. so, he come on his own, with some of his parishioners went to the liquor distributors, the big liquor distributors in the chicago area and said you can't do this. we looked at our neighborhood, and that's all we have we look

west and south and their advertising everything. cigar we are limited to cigarettes and liquor.they were they were told, no, we take t or -- we advertise according to regulations that we have worked out. we go where it works. >> reporter: he goes to the cigarette distributors and the same thing. he gives to city hall and talked to the aldermen and peoples inth the mayor's office his say i doa can't do anything about that.bil free-speech. the washington to address the issue. he got nowhere.owre so he said, well, we have to do something. so, one night, one night a car r left saint seine bynum at about 1130 and drove down the street c couple of blocks a billboard.e they opened the trunk.

the three men got out.ndul they pulled out of large can of red paint and a large brush with ane extension. took the brush and painted the d billboard read. they went home. and the next few nights later they went out again and paintedt to more.en c cars went by, and nobody seemed to notice. they started painting. one of his associates began calling downtown to the tv station, the radio stations. i live on the south side of around 79-and racine. billboard in our neighborhood,go all being damaged by red paint. nothing, nothing is more appealing to the tv people looking for stories and a p picture of a damaged billboard. so they would come out and take

a picture.a who is doing this?o d never knows. k so this continued for quite a while over a long, long time. they got better at it. one of his associates learned that you can do it better if hef makes red paint with mineral water. it will stick better.et instead of just kind of running around and dropping on the ground it will stick better.oad the fda that if you take these big vacuum cans that can't exterminators use to kill bugs, they have a hose and then that o you can squirt out thatessu. high-pressure. they have two of these cans.fi fill them with red paint. with these they can simply take the canister out and came thehe little short hose up and shoot the red paint upon to the billla

would. so, all of the people were doing this. a lot o tf parishioners got involved in this, and it became known for, obviously, the peoplo in the neighborhood upset about billboards.rd it going down the street, and sr the police car came and stoppedo he got out and we thought, oh, th boy. this is a. they said, what are you doing? the answer, we are painting billboards because we don't likn cigarettes and alcohol as the only items advertised. >> the cop said, oh, and got back in his car and drove off. this outside became aware of what was going on. vance clark, my top assistant,ug was buying an extraordinaryao amounts of red paint from a local pin store. the owner asked him.. what are you doing with all thih paint?

welcome all we year pitching over.ar come and see. you are the ones doing it. after that the owner give them a big discount. [laughter] but eventually as father ofy later was arrested for civil disobedience. >> he was caught red handed by the owner of the billboard company. one night when they were painting, the guy had been outm. looking.er get really mad, and they had an accurate. some in got splashed. he said, i'm going to get youo and went to the police station.n the police filed charges. he was charged with damaging property. op a year later he went on trial for damaging private property..

it they could have settled for a fine, but he did not want to. he wanted to go on trial and explain why he was doing it. his lawyer used something calleu the necessity defense, a defense that is sometimes used by civiln rights people when they break the law. we had tried to do the right thing. we could find no other way. that was the defense they used. it does not always work. depends on the judge and jury. . and the jury, i was surprised, e went to the trial and the jurye was out for onewa hour. i should have said might testified before everyone telling exactly what happened, that they had marked up about 750 billboards over six to seven

months. not only and narrator, but the t new star going downtown. they did one along beckons thedy expressway that people see every day.e exp and he honestly said he is and here's why. we tried to do the right thing,e go to the proper authorities. everybody said no. and so we took matters into ouri own hands. mte of course the prosecution said, e pr you can't do that. that's terrible. that is a slippery slope. the jury came back and voted not guilty. he was guilty. they accepted the defense. the court room was filled with parishioners. the step and said thank you, jesus. then you come mr. germain.

[laughter] and the judge said, don't do this any longer yet no supportou from cardinal bernadine on this. can you imagine? very upset. he did it. so that is the kind of thing i that brings you into conflict i with your authorities, superiors. he says, you know, hesu says i don't think god. this was an issue that wasas j perfectly clear to me and people. that was -- that was theas beginning of a lot of things thi that you can read about in the boat. >> now, cardinal george came to chicago. since he has been at the helm oe the archdiocese, michael hasasee been suspendedn twice.wice. >> suspended twice. >> temporarily.

>> yes. maybe two dozen times. >> matters of civil disobedience >> no, not really. in yet been there long enough. the rule in the diocese, and it is just a rule. nhing nothing divine about it. not from the bible. the rule in chicago was that ift you were a pastor for six yearsx into a decent job, you get sixet more years. trough years and is considered to normal amount of time this nuys in a pastor for 21 years. and the cardinals once in to go. as said, not through. much more work to be done. b i don't want to go. they went back and forth. it got very hot and heavy. there were meetings and

eventually the card know just let it go, let him stay. and then in two dozen date he was suspended after he made friend of hillary ton the to comment that was on televisionas xews, particularly fox news where he was giving a servant with jeremiah right. he started to make fun of hillary clinton. it was about the time many of you remember which she almosthea broke down andlm cried at a news conference. c was when people said she wase w putting it on. she was just, it was a pretend. got up and said, no, it wasn't. she was really getting mad because she thought herself, and bill's wife.

i have an excellent record.d toe i am entitled to be the president. here is is black men stealing my show. he take out a handkerchief and h several wiping his eyes. well, it was not in good taste, obviously. very a very insulting to hillary.lly. mike says he thought he was only doing in a vin church and beyond that time is yasser -- cardinal. suspended him for two weeks.>> >> well, getting involved in politics. >> yes. >> also an adviser to president obama's campaign. appellees cardinal joy jacksonee resigned that position as well. >> yes, he did. he had already finished t campaigning.

he will, if pushed to the limit, obey. but as long as he has any energy he will fight you.e is he is a very, very, very stubborn man. >> most recent, just finishing up another burst -- mosteus recently. can you talk a little bit aboutf that?e the earth? >> it's not too complicated.e he had an elimination, gettingnn swagger out by appointing him as president of leo high-school. high-school.lack that's what he could stay in the neighborhood and have somebody else take over the parish. unfortunately the announcemente was made without telling theurre current president and principal. so when the reporters turnover to see what their reaction was they said, we did not know

anything about this. that was not good. g that was not good. i don't want to go. i i am not an indicator in that sense. i am not -- i don't want to be. so, that led to a kind ofth standoff. the thing that broke the back was that i'm -- he had an -- interview on the campus smiley show, which is, public radio.its nationally.t and he said that if he was pushed to the edge he very well might have to find ministry in f and the church.ll t well, the cardinals, when hel. heard that he went extremely insane.

suspended him because of that.t not because of real high school. amin, he did not mention the high-school thing.terpred >> he interpreted as a threat te leave the church. the father came back and said,ai i'm sorry, misinterpreted and is not my intention. ♪ there is a way, if you really parses what swipe your and the t cardinal says, they were saying the same thing, but the fact is he did threaten. he said he was sorry and had nod intention to leave the church. the cardinal reinstated him with ans provision, and that is thaty december 201st the cardinal is to have in his hand a transition plan. n

but that would be, we do not know, and they need to work it out. i've asked them, what are youi a going to do? d i haven't the foggiest idea. you can bet that he will confer with the parishioners. a and with other people he knows. louis farrakhan. jeremiah right. be it for fans of his. he is determined that the ministry at since the bynum logo on. what it could be, he will ask ta stay on for a year or stay on for two years, maybe until he is 65. sixty-two now. n. there is a priest in the parish, a south african priest has beenn there for a year-and-a-half. at the cardinals' all-out him to come.

the people love him, and he has some of his characteristics, but by no means all. after a year-and-a-half no onee is sure that he is the one who would be best suited to a fate t issues. there is nobody, nobody that can fit issues that i know of. there would have to be very, very unique. >> huge shoes to fill. radical disciple. thank you. i hope to preserve some time fot questions, but we are out of time. if you have some, we will remaiu appear. >> books are out there. [applause] [applause] >> you're watching 48 hours of c-span2. >> what are you reading this

summer? this kind of details the financial crisis over the last year. i have read a lot of books on various topics, the big short, financial shock. a whole number of other titles. but this is the last one i read. the book that intel's the series. starting from the early roots of the crisis which was born in sub prime lending, no engine, no job

type . selling those. both were sold on the idea that people would refinance the housing market. a lot of detail. in actually fascinating book. i enjoyed reading it. fascinating to see. also, i have read a have repulse, frank possum's book about the financial crisis. the area that i want to become a much pettish certain tough. like that. too big to fail. this is a book that i'm just about done with. liberty in love. liberty and love. a friend of mine, and a my

willingness to question tradition and convention, promotes this islamic idea. that means questioned. add a time where you thought some people who offer ideas based on tradition, she is one who says there is this other tradition inquiry -- bases me. questions? both basically talking about how modern islamic world has and the opportunity to really incorporated liberty and freedom if you look, there is no doubt that the book is actually from an important perspective because

that is a deficit with the people at terrier scare and indonesia and all of the region as saying. they believe that they can have their cake and have liberty and don't have to live under authoritarian government. an important question. so, you know, i'm really -- i waited a few parts my life. let's do it all the time. sherri devils broke. "given that. it grabs a bunch of books. i have one that i've just read. it has to do with the history of goldman, the investment arm -- firm. these are the books i have been reading about, the financial crisis. i just got a list of other books. kidding ready to grab hold.

reissue books. you know, there is one i read years ago called 100 years of solitude. i'd just kind of thing that my vacation in august. those i not yet, but i hope the need to get to it. >> tell us what you are reading this summer. sinden said tweet. >> no webster at the age of 25 had this best seller. very glad. sometimes severely does. in 1785 he decides what is wrong with america. the problem, he says, is under the articles of confederation the federal government did not have enough power.

he writes this pamphlet. and when he has an idea, he does something and takes it to mount vernon and takes it to george washington. washington was not a college guy. webster was a yale man. madison was princeton, john adams harvard, washington was not a college guy. very impressed. that is a very interesting and gm. he is a great delegator, so he said that will give it to mr. madison. he gives it to madison and fletcher's pamphlet becomes instrumental in the drafting of the constitution. in 1787 webster is that the constitutional convention. seventeen -- at the constitutional convention. the first thing he does is not on webster