and then because of the movie "atlas shrugged" coming out, with my family, we are rereading "atlas shrugged" which is very timely i'll have to say for those of us who are here in d.c. >> tell us what you're reading this summer. send us a tweet at booktv. >> and now john prendergast and michael talk about their joint memoir at mcnally books in new york city. ..

end d9, as many of you know, is the co-founder of nbc's news today, america's number one news program and the anchor of dateline. she was the news anchor for today from march 1987 until june 2011. in may 2005 she was named co-anchor of dateline nbc. see also really substitutes for brian williams very distinguished herself in local humanitarian reporting frequently traveling to remote areas of the world for underreported stories and and and john have been interacting on african issues since 2004. the to travel together with george contests southern sudan in 2010. let's all welcome them. [applause] [applause]

>> good afternoon. a pleasure to be among you and as a special pleasure to be here with john and michael and to talk about this book. so we are glad for you to be here. we want to tell you this is being broadcast. no four-letter words. although there are some in this book. this is a very honest look that you and michael have written. it is so honest. i wonder what your motivation was it is an attempt to do good for you and an attempt to be good for others. first tell us about those initials chapters you have to read about in your own background. >> in would be really easy because of just tell the story

of this really good guy who helped this kate and hopefully made his life better. you know, as soon as we turn up the microscope and started looking at motivation and why i did what i did, as would probably anyone, he's the complex reasons. coming apart of that household upbringing and having to touch sort of appeal the and in later vote -- layer by layer break painfully revealing to myself and then ultimately getting it on paper the reasons why, i mean, it's very different than the noble knight riding into the difficult situation. it was definitely greatly out of self-interest, trying to hold my own life and trying to figure out my own path. >> how old are you? which i first met michael i was 20. >> you have been in the family were you felt no deep close this with your father? >> the opposite.

we were very estranged. it was very explosive upbringing. for about 25-30 years we -- i didn't like to him. so it was a complete just turned off the switch and lights went out and i just checked out of the relationship. >> on top of that in your life in high school in those early years he struggled against -- you just felt ugly, you felt you had at me like a lot of us did. you felt not connected to your father, and this is devastating to you. >> i think it's not really terribly unusual. i think a lot of young kids growing up feel alienation from many different reasons. very sensitive kids. acutely affected me. the affected, a real anger against and fairness. so early on i began to us sort of cut the soup kitchens and homeless shelters and start

volunteering at these places, listen to stories, getting deeper and deeper. the underside of our country and understanding what, you know, poverty, homelessness, and other social afflictions were all about. somehow connecting those things to my own torment. >> meantime for you, michael, how old were you when you met john? >> seven. >> what was your life like? >> well, when we first night we were living in homeless shelters. >> a homeless shelter or of how many brothers and sisters? >> at that time i think it was i had two brothers and one sister at that time. no, actually three brothers and one sister at that time. more. >> yes. and then mom kept having more. >> and how would you describe your emotions. john just talked about his emotions to maestros with his

father, alienation. what are your emotions as you remember at age seven and a homeless shelter? >> well, i knew it was wrong. i we were shoulder to shoulder. it was bad. carrying around bags. a real small. carrying around bags. it was sad. and i mean, like, when i wrote the book, that memory again, i broke down a lot just thinking about the stuff that we went through on where the small. >> talk about in the book how you really remember the garbage bags. >> is, i did. >> that's how you carried around your world, your whole life. >> yes. with the banks and the bus. or rewind, that's what we carry around, our backs, no blood banks to my trash bags. >> so how was it that you would need? it is unlikely.

>> yes. >> how did you meet? >> we -- a friend of mine, continues are nomadic existence. my dad was a frozen fruit salesman. i went to five different colleges. calves, rolling stone. the first place and when was georgetown. a buddy of mine had met their was overseen when i dropped out of georgetown. he stayed there, he was overseen in homeless shelters. i went to visit him one day. down in the sea. thirteen blocks from the white house. the shelter there. justine around in the afternoon. amidst of the regular rate of -- reagan revolution. all the intellectual side to poverty. the a theological differences. pam, michael and his brother james one year younger, seven and six, they come rolling into the room. just playing in joking around. i jumped right around in there with them. horsing around.

we get to library. we repeated. we keep kind of hanging around doing a lot of stuff together. eventually we just become brothers and no way informally that ended up cementing itself. >> a big aids difference. people wonder why their mother let you hang out with this guy. >> yes. she did. she really did. i had a lot of my hands have a problem with it. the allies is to say, you need to stop that. and white man coming around. you don't know what he doing. imam was like, they'll carry. she knew we was in good hands. >> she really did. if something was wrong we would have told there. wasn't. it was the fun. you know, he made it. even though the first time we went, looking at the book. this is boring. you know what i'm saying? we started. he told us if we don't know

something, let him know. that's what he did, and he started doing more and more with us. was fine. you know, strange. this strange guy. you know, for real. >> you have no idea. >> it was crazy. >> he wanted to -- he has to in those early years if you knew how to read. >> yes. and i really didn't. we really didn't know how to read. because, you know, for us pouncing to shelter to shelter, you know, 12, 1:00 tonight, still have to get up and go to school. you know, you think about it. and when we get out from school whenever nowhere were going to be at. it was crazy. things wasn't getting down the way it was supposed to. couldn't do no homework. so worried about where we would stay that night. you know, we stayed in different

places. start showing us a little bit. >> so he helps you understand the value. some words. >> i mean, you know, a few times to leon know what it is. he might have to list this. and then we started going and doing different stuff. walking around, basketball. >> -- you? >> yes, he did. he really did. >> you said that like you needed that food. >> yes. he did. my mom was younger. kino, some months we wouldn't have food to eat. you know, sometimes we would have food to eat sometimes. should try to scrape up what she could defeatist. and she did. she did. >> it's hard to imagine at 20 something year-old man going back over and over again to hang

out with these young boys. even though you didn't have a tremendous amount of money in your pocket, you were springing for them to eat, to hang out with them. could have been with your friends. i'm thinking about all of us when we were in our 20's. >> it goes back to that issue of my parents. i saw these kids living out of plastic bags in the shelter, running around place to place. i was just furious at the world around us. and so sure i would have ravages gone on the basketball court to do whatever. but i felt very committed. i have been studying poverty and all these other issues. the policies to try to change. here is to manifestations of the unfair economic system to our country continuing to harbor.

i just thought, well, at the very least, these guys. see if i can help make a difference there. >> interesting. i would think if you are studying urban poverty you're thinking like you. when you thought about killing close up to these two you thought it was still -- in other words, you decided at some point that this was going to be just these two. what was it about michael? is a breed became brothers. you need to explain. what was the connection that made you go, okay, these two, i can't do them all. these other two. >> asking it that way, i don't think it was that way. study the problems and figure out the policies. these guys emotionally connected in what was fairly inside me that time.

and as a lonely kid turned adult i connected with those guys. we became family. the big brother little brother thing is a term that we can use to describe it, but really it's the family. i just reach out to them are religious like they're reaching out to me trying to figure out, trying to have an anchor some more in a bit of a stormy sea. >> so they love you like your father did not. >> like my father to know how. you know, unconditionally. i think all of us, how incredible when you actually feel someone that doesn't have a set of conditions are judgments. footnotes. what they have for you. i think that was the hallmark of the distinction.

>> but instead of finding a man older than you to be a father figure, he became essentially a father figure instead. >> one of the motifs that continues back into the stay resonates with me, the old iconic symbol of boys town. and you have that picture of the big kid holding the little kid on his shoulder. sleeping. taking care of him. the father is my brother. and though the kid wishing i had that big brother. eventually, you know what, i can be that guy. what on ib that after this guy. i try. give it my pass shot. >> michael, as much as j.p. did for you, it wasn't enough to keep you from the hardship,

obviously. there was too much, including some of the teasing that you were in during in school. >> we get teased a lot of school. we get teased a lot at school. >> what would they say? >> just you know, my mom didn't have the money. we always got second-hand stuff. five and a third hand. it was crazy. i remember it was the beginning of the school. i was the oldest boy. seven kids. my mom didn't have a lot of money to buy all of those close. she bought me three sweatsuits. i had to wear them the whole school year, the same three sweatsuits. they're teasing me all year

round. that was one of the reasons. >> she started selling drugs because you started getting -- because you were tired of getting teased? were you trying to raise money. >> i want to buy clothes at that time. >> bullying. bullying gas and teasing us. that hurt being a little kid. so other kids, to the state. it goes to the same thing. kids teasing me because of the things that, you know, three sweatsuits for the whole school year. it was torture. >> old were you when you started selling drugs, and what kind of drugs to do so? >> eleven years old, started selling fake trucks.

with a real sharks. i was 11 years old. >> were you able to buy his clothes? >> not during that time. as you went on, it wasn't long after. my teachers, seamy changing, she knew i was what was doing. play on the playground during school time i was on the corner selling drugs. on the corner. why you out here selling the drugs? here to yawn. she tried. you know, that's something i started getting adapted to. john, he was in the round. >> traveling at this point? >> i was in africa just a year and a half after we met. my first trip to africa. this whole new career path. wanted to, you know, work on human rights, stop these

terrible abuses. >> how did you find out about his drug selling? >> you know, i would come back, lived and worked in africa for many years. for the first two or three years when we first met each other, very deeply. then asserted going off. i would come back finally. i would go up. fewer and fewer times. younger brothers, james, david, but michael it stay behind. every time i would come to visit, you don't have any idea what's going on, selling drugs, drop out of school. i have to do something about

this. you know, result myself to get people involved. all the complexities involved in trying to get it done in the right direction. i was start planning my next trip to africa. i would be off. in my resolve would crumble at the degree of difficulty. i literally let him down. because it was easier to work with the younger kids, your brothers. a little bit like my dad. >> were you angry? >> yes. we had this guy come into our life. he would just shoot off and come back six months later. we'd be happy, you know see him. come back. i mean, so happy. you just wish he don't got no more. we have a lot of fun.

next thing dulce and performance. we beat so sad. we to be mad. he's picking is up. when they leave, they come back around. not doing nothing. i still might go with them. he'd be gone again. deep, deep, into it. he was constantly around. you know, even though that was in his job. made his bond with him. you know, things have been good. i think i would have been a whole different person if he was constantly around. >> how old were you when the

light bulb went off that he would have stopped selling drugs and that you could now turn your life around and what caused that >> well, i got in some trouble. i went to the boot camp. we have the army and marines working with us. they basically showed us. you know, a big drug dealer. i have to get to this boot camp. yelling at me. i don't know who i am. in a, you don't know who i am. a meal you. they did none low was. you know what i'm saying. you have no choice but to what there was doing to us. go to jail. stuff, how to be a man.

he had to have our room this way and a run this way. you know, the army, the marines, the tough guys. you know. just teaching me. it was hiking trips. that's something and never did. came home. i had muscles. i never had that. stuff like that. and i came home it was sharp. sharp. still selling drugs. but i had the choice. go to jail, get killed were still alive. i wanted to stay alive. those are my choices. >> o be honest with you. if i would not have met john and

would have been worse than it is. it would have been worse. >> it would have been way worse. >> do you remember the moment? >> he looked me in the eye and say, no, not selling drugs. his mom crying. i just wanted to believe. i didn't have -- i chose not to make the investment. fast forwarding a few years when he is deep in a life and i'm off in africa. unit, one night i get a call. he wants me to come over. we sit down it is the living room table. by this time he's got his new wife and a few of his boys.

to marriage? and he basically told me the whole story. this is what been going on. i just need a little help right now because some according cold turkey. and so it was very mind-boggling to me the extent to which she was in it.ery mind-boggling to me the extent to which she was in it. for me to read his chapters now and to see what he was involved in, i feel like a tremendous failure for not having been there for him during that time. >> why would you feel guilty giving what he just said? >> because -- well, the flip side of what he just said is had actually been there more we could have actually may be gone -- could have gone in a different direction, but it was those times when i was gone and when i came back and didn't really invest, when often a different direction. >> going off to get on with some irish.

>> going of stafford at the china save the world.

he was like, man, i want to be a round more. he just, to notice what was going on. i'm there. >> you said that you have replicated what your father did. in terms of not always been there for michael. but then something happened. he taught you something about how to be there for somebody else. >> watching -- i'd go to his house a lot, reinvesting his life. play the role of brother that i should play all those years. i got a chance to see him as a father and as a husband. you know, he's good at both of them. i can attest. it was just, you know, i have written it off. often these wars zones. lost all sort of -- the idea that such a thing could ever be

the case for me to be able to have that kind of family, has a lot to do with self-esteem in my own self you. watching michael and the maturity and wisdom that he had accrued through all of the things he had gone through and how he applied that to these incredible kids. i at least felt, well, even if i won't have that, i can always be part of that. the first draft of the book we broke, that was said. i'll never have that, but at least half in directly to your connection. the second this sort of like, weird. two years to write this thing. the second, now i see that he does it, maybe i can envision that. so making progress. third, somehow it all happened. >> when did you get married? >> nine days ago just tell at this book event.

i had to make my point. [laughter] >> michael, you spoke at johns wedding. you -- do you know that you top this to john, that as much as you say teataster life that you had chased his? >> i didn't really realize that. i didn't. i mean, i know he was impressed upon of was doing. i was promised my kid that i would never leave them. i'm 100% dedicated to them. you know, he really liked that. i was with them. i took some of the things that he used to do with his former small. fish, but, that's exactly what i do with them. we really are. you have to say yes. even my seven year-old, we fish. i took a lot of things he taught us on the smaller.

they enjoy it. >> what he is saying is that he taught him things that made him a better father and then by seeing that he was such a good father he found the opportunity yourself. >> now i have my chance. state to end. some parenting book. >> before that happened you had also found an interesting alex. this book is out not so long. you were invited by a book club, as i understand it, in a prison. >> yes. that was the most -- in my life, i had 30 inmates, a teenager's, 16, 17 year olds, and i'm sitting there. i was nervous. i didn't know what to expect. murderers, robbers, and

carjackers. 75 percent of them was not coming of an all. but i thought there was not going to sit there and listen. that was the quietest people say heard them kids. they sat there and listened to everything i said. they asked me questions afterwards. i mean, so inspired by the story. schick everybody's hand. i'm not getting out till 26. ♪ , but your story inspired me. i want to change exactly the way you did. that test me so much. i had these teenagers, not coming home, i inspired them. that wasn't done, there was smart. they just made the wrong decision. they're right palms. the palms the ride is so lovely, so touching. i was touched by what there was doing. and there was -- after words that came up to me. i know i'm going here.

i'm trying to keep writing. i'm like, look, keep writing. i know you sang in never coming home. never say never. you might do end up coming home. they asked me, they want me to come back. they want me to be a part of them. i'm like, wow, this amazes me. they want me to be a part of them. then loving me so much. i was like, man. i can make a change for these kids. inspired by the story. i think that's my goal, talk to young teenagers, try to help, you know, to better there life. it up, tell them my experience. do the opposite and try to make things better for you. you know, if i could take 30 kid then save one of them and doing a good job. >> just like john saved one.

>> yes. >> do you see that? they're talking about what he did for you, doing that for them. >> yeah. yeah. he says me. i even cried. john, man, he just don't, like, realize, like, the wonderful things that he did for us. you know what i'm saying? and mean, i've been through a lot in my life. writing this book, that was a little bit of what i went through. it was trauma to me. amazing that i'm still here to tell my story. i think god kept me here to tell my story. he wanted me to tell the story. it's amazing. i lost my brothers. that was the most painful thing in my life. i lost one of my best friends. fans and family that i love. i just lost my dad, too. you know, it's crazy because of lost all those people, but i'm

still here. the other day and sitting. i start thinking about all of them. no, man. i wish my brother was still here. i lost -- my brother james. lost a brother tyrrell. a lost a brother, my father's son. three brothers within the last ten years. and it hurt. it does. >> it is hard to always expressed to someone else what they have done for you. is there anything that comes to mind. if you would have had one since summer beaches to, what would those two sentences be about what you would say to john about what he is done for you as best as you can and however you do is find. >> the love for what he did for

me and love for being there for me. no, he helped me out. he really did. he just don't know. i know my life to him for the things he did for me. the stock on the streets. >> how would you say it to michael? >> we started it out maybe big brother and you being a little brother. adding to coolest thing now about the last five years is, we are brothers, family. we will be. we know that we have each other and at each other's backs for the rest of our lives. that's a helluva feeling to have. >> the book is beautifully written, powerful, honest, and interesting how much in reading it not only do we learn about you, but we also learn about what is possible and as. who has a question? there are no stupid questions. maybe there might be some stupid answers.

yeah. >> you work like to do, it's easy to become cynical about the species. in your own trajectory consolidating, these times, these years, these recent years in your life, the kind of consolidation possibly where you're going back inside. a lot of personal things. he looked at the future with regard to what you have done in the past. what you see in international work for yourself. >> well, i think it is the lessons that i have drawn from all of this, the things that i learned can be boiled down pretty easily really. that is that individuals, anyone of us can make a difference. i feel like i have these two tracks that i have left town, not by choice, but have been as involved. one being this track of working

with younger people, michael is one of the little brothers. i've had nine now working directly with big brother big sister organization over the years. and to see that, again, just by investing a little bit of time, like you will be doing with those guys in the prison. investing time and energy, actually it can often make a difference in people's lives. there is a personal. in the professional and the big picture, you know, having been part of the anti-apartheid efforts in south africa. ended up working with nelson mandela. worked with him on the peace process with president clinton. him telling me it is because the people around the world, partnering with him and all of the south africans were startling against apartheid, that was why the situation

changed and south africa was free from the suppressive racist political system. it was because of the actions of people all over the country and around the world, individuals taking action and part of the blood diamond campaign. well, it was because individuals. you know it is not right for us to buy this shall reap if it's going to lead to terrible abuses of human rights in west africa. thus be decided we were not going to do it, the situation changed. liberia, and dahlia, these are peaceful countries. the individual's work together in groups to change things. it doesn't always work, but it can. the allies want to work on it. get the message that they can make a difference. and you actually can buy just investing in something that you believe in. actually help change it. >> the microphone we would like to bring.

kid. -- peabody. >> i guess my question, the time that you guys are the lowest. is there a memory of a personal belief system that you guys turn to? what was it that brought new hope to start again? >> a person i could turn to. >> in other words, what was the thing that could be -- whenever it was, what kept you hanging on in bringing you back to each other? at your lowest. >> i just knew if i would have called and he was going to be there. i knew it. >> you have fedex i had faith. when i called him he was going to be there for me. at it and want to, but i did. he was there. i was scared to call him.

i did, and i knew he would be there. >> care to call him, talking about when you got off charge cards yes, when i got from selling drugs. yes. i was like, man, i don't know. i know he got beat. i called him. i need to talk to you. i never call him like that. >> would you say that knowing he had your back was what kept you going? >> yes he never just me. he didn't care what i did. he never said nothing mean, never treated this mean. the exact same way when we do as little boys. never see him mad. you know, i've never seen him at. the exact same way. >> you are describing

unconditional. you described unconditional love earlier and at different -- now you are saying it was kind of an unconditional report. anybody else, go ahead and raise your hand and put your question up. >> is your dad still alive, and have you reconcile? >> she passed away three years ago, before, probably five years before he died he had consecutive bouts of cancer. beat the first and not the second. he and i began this process of coming back together. it was great. i mean, a lot of forgiveness, a lot of complexity involved. we covered it a little bit in the book, but, you know, i don't know if you can move on as a person no matter what happens to you if there is in some, some

form of reconciling with your past. that may not involve the person or the people who caused the problems or were part of the problems. for many people they don't have that chance. there was one situation, and his first cancer about. he was in the hospital. complex surgery. it's in chance of survival. he survives. regains strength and he sort of has a semi flashback. i mean, he becomes much more docile. but some i flashed back. he wants to touch tear the wires , the ivy lines out. he was screaming at me. i went back to being met the seven year old kid. it being terrorized by this giant -- first of all, my hero, the jekyll and hyde situation. mr. hyde has appeared again. for a moment my heart bleeds

into lighter and 97 again and then it was like wow, cool. i'm actually not. i had to hold him down because he was trying to get out and would it have torn this things out of his arms. i had gone at one point to some workshop where we did this session. this session was that you would actually go back in time to be a little kid. one of the moments when you felt terribly unsafe and unprotected. you imagine yourself as an adult going back into that moment as child and protect yourself as child. a psychological trick. here it was happening. i'm actually here. and so i talked to him. the whole time while he screaming. spitting fire. you know, and it was strangely peaceful after word. he forgot about it 30 minutes later. he was beginning to have his first stage.

he completely forgot it. have a slight, while, he doesn't know what he's doing. he never did. he had no tools. michael told me his father did some of the same things to him. he didn't know. i began to reconcile. once that happened we would pick is the spirit once to recover from that first bout we spent so much time together. i was grateful to have that last moment of reconciliation with him. >> anybody else want the microphone? bobblehead. >> i don't need this. >> to use it please. >> i arrived late. i apologize. >> good or bad thing. just what we do. how is he managed to take the time to make a personal

commitment to michael to be there for him. that's very important. again, going back to the moment, write this book. first image, most of it would be about him. as they get into it more deeply, started to see the complexity of it all. and then, you know, as i actually saw -- we opened things up in this book. don't put us in a flattering light. i actually felt that would be better. show them an example. i had a reason for writing this book which was hopefully i can help inspire people to become

mentors, to become tudors, big brothers, big sisters. as the writing went on and as my own self resolution deepened palace like a mola, this is going to be a much better way of recruiting them if i was the perfect guy who did everything right because i'll never do that and that's like the entire recruitment strategy. nobody can live up to it. here is this guy who does it for selfish reasons, has all kinds of complicated things. less the kid down repeatedly. still has some kind of an impact that his lifelong. crazy. and then become the anti poster child, but poster child. you don't have to always be perfect. you don't have to show up all the time. you don't have to be the one, the have all the answers, and you can still somehow make a

difference. i hope that is what people take out a hit in the hope that is what we are able to inspire people to be able to invest there time and energy in these kinds of things. >> does anybody have another question or statement? here is someone in front. >> what do you feel he taught you to your relationship? you were much older. obviously were always there. when the bill that relationship for so many years, you have to see the other side of the coin that some can see. >> well, i really want to say again because it is so dominant. the steadiness and the commitment, steadiness and commitment that he makes to these kids every day into his wife every day, that level that you, me, or him, it's one of us. but that is really what i learned. just watching him have infinite

patients hand it to somebody else. watching the infinite patients for his kids and for his wife and seeing the kind of investment on a day-to-day basis that you may your family. it just became possible in my mind. the light switch did not come on all at once, but it was like one of those timmer said gets a little brighter. maybe. maybe. having that into the sea of the brother relationship, and my own real brother, by the way, he also -- kind of strange on that, but came back. and he is a great father and a great husband to his life. so having does to all models, my

brother in spirit and my brother biologically, people that gave me the belief in the carriage in the hope and the self believe that i could actually do it myself. >> anybody else? yes. you have a question in front. >> what was the writing process like? did one of you start writing? >> we got a lot of help at the beginning because it did not know how to frame. we this, we that. it takes away our individual story. we got a great writer. he survived for the new yorker. we sat together. michael just, you know, told him story after story. we went all around to all the old places, some of the shelters. i told the stories, and he took and created -- he created the love of clay that made the first

draft possible. he sort of created this idea that it would be a dual narrative. we would go back and forth. we would talk often about the same events, but with widely differing interpretations of what was happening, like real life. we went back and forth. africa doing my thing, and he's off. that is where we were furthest apart. i had very little idea what was going on and his life. we come back together. then he gave us -- he turned it over to us and it was our turn. the difference to me get the stories, but we had to tell why. if you can explain why, what's going on in your heart, then who really cares. that was the hard part. so really, what do you think? we did late night sessions. >> sixteen hours. sixteen hours. i mean, it took awhile.

it was all laughing at the same time. it got done. it took a long time. >> the pictures. at first i couldn't find any pictures of us. sarah borrowing in, shaking everybody down from the old days, finding these things. remember what happened there. anyways, that was really cool. rediscovering. recapturing our own lives. i recommend writing a memoir to everyone in this room. >> you even found a photo. >> yes. yes. >> anybody else? one more chance. going, going, gone. it sounds like it was terrific there be to make this book happen. would you say that it brought you closer? >> yes. >> like a lot closer? your face is saying a lot closer.

>> the brothers as a word, but it has a lot of meaning. a lot of lawyers. the brotherhood we have now has to be near or read deep this layer is. testing each other like to the liberals. i'm still in the 19 -- he's like, oh, should. >> everything. everything. >> while, you may be unlikely brothers, but you are lucky brothers. thank you, and we are lucky if you took all of this time and poured your heart out in this way and spoke to us today. thank you so much. [applause] [applause] >> every weekend book tv offers 48 hours of programming focused on nonfiction authors and books. watch it here on c-span2.

>> back in july of 1926 this month, this country was celebrating its 150th national birthday. here in texas i imagine it was quite a big deal. in fort worth texas just a waste from here the festivities were overshadowed somewhat by a brewing local battle, one that involve political, religious, business, and civic leaders. the catalyst was up richard perry both public and personal. the citizens found themselves polarized. on july the 17th 1926 and all came to a head of a successful businessman, someone pretty well connected went to pay a visit to a local pastor. this is not just any pastor from the typical man of the cloth

ruling over a religious empire. she presided over the largest protestant congregation in america. in an anemic -- in many ways america's first mega church. radiobroadcasting pioneer, tabloid newspaper accused by many beyond texas as the emerging leader of a movement then near its apex. as the businessman argued, became hot. with a few moments gave way to that for a shot, he fell and was left for dead. no one in the church office that day, and there were 20 people, they approached and to offer help. send police arrived in an ambulance before the man reached the hospital he briefed his last breath. dexter elliott, known as the to just about everybody. the preacher was the preference

dr. john franklin norris, well known as j. frank norris. the texas tornado to many in for worth as that man. the story of what happened, for the following six months so his likely one of the most famous stories have never heard. if greece all the way here to austin because eventually the trial, which was one of the most celebrated trials the famous trials. leopold and love. this trial was one of the most captivating at the time. it has been lost to history. a footnote in books, a story that has made it into some places, but never received its full treatment. the context, of course, is the 1920's which i always found to be a fascinating time.

time just after the world changed when the soldiers that, you know, year we have just this year in march the last living soldier of world war one, a man 110 years old was buried in arlington national cemetery. no more from that era. of course fewer we see every day from the greatest generation of world war two. in the 1920's people came back from world war one. they had changed a few. somewhat influenced by what they sought in europe. this tremendous revolution in manners and morals. casting of restraint. you have women voting and you have a lot of independence, a bit of the sexual revolution. you have all of the media things. radio begins to become popular. eventually becoming the media of

the date. tabloid newspapers are strong. movies to my film industry had been around for a few years, but really reached -- got its traction in the 1920's. along with that the cult of celebrity came along. what andy warhol was later described as 15 minutes of fame existed long before that. sports figures chemical figures and movie stars. against that you had this reaction. it was described in this odd word at the beginning of the decade when warren harding said we want to get back to normalcy. he was the first republican to make up words. he said normalcy, getting back to the way things used to be. a lot of people, that resonated with them.

they saw the country falling apart. the country -- the values are changing. a number of things came along at the same time. one was a movement called fundamentalism. when you hear that word today what you think of this its associated an awful lot with islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. also people thrown and with christian fundamentalism and often make the mistake of using evangelicalism and bonilla to fundamentalism as interchangeable. it began as an ideological movement but it became also a cultural thing. it was something for people to get involved with, and that think it is tied for us to imagine today, but it was such a pervasive movement in the 1920's that the famous sage of baltimore, and man by the name of h. l. they in, sat in the

middle of the 1920's. if you were to even egg from a car anywhere in america you're bound to hit a fundamentalist in the car -- head. that means the people who embraced it. much more than a religious, cultural reaction to the way things had changed. another movement that was very big, at least for a time in the 1920's and certainly even here in the state of texas was the ku. >> klan. it had seen a revival that had many manifestations even up to our time. many of them marginal, but the most significant emergences of that particular movement work, of course, during reconstruction with the original plan. about 1915 there was a regrouping. by the time you come into the 1920's this group, very patriotic, very pro america. very anti-immigrant, and tight, you know, foreign