the tyranny and dictatorship of the world financial markets. the unequal distribution of wealth. western aggression in gaza. he is encouraging young people all over the world to get involved and without their involvement like he made a difference in the second war. without their involvement nothing can change. as i mentioned before there's a general sense of malaise that we don't have the power to make things happen. he is living proof that we do. >> you will publish that in september. how far in advance doing 12 books a year, do you have these books planned? >> i am scheduled through august of 2012. three books in the 2012 season that are likely. we always need room because big projects come up. we are pretty selective list so we have some peculiar demands and books that work well on some lists because of our hot

expectations. we try to allow room for these surprise book that comes in that everyone is asking about and we can make work in a big way with the kind of focus that a more expensive list cannot. >> cary goldstein is publisher and editor-in-chief of 12 books. twelvebob brooks.com is the web site. >> sally pipes and grace-marie turner look at the health care legislation that was signed into law in march 2010. this 50 minute conversation is next from freedom fest 2011. >> i am jenkins to turner and i'm joined by sally pipes and we are delighted that you are here and have an opportunity to talk

to you about this frightening law that we believe will have a terribly detrimental effect on our health sector and our freedom. i am going to talk first. i have a few slides so i will be moving to the podium and sally will follow up. i wrote a book about why obamacare is wrong for america and sally wrote one called the truth about obamacare. i will move to the podium and begin the presentation. >> thank you, grace-marie. we're delighted you're here to hear our messages. it is important to recognize what is in the law. people are confused. there is a sense that some

people think the law has been repealed. they either think it has been repealed or they are not sure. half of americans think after the 2010 elections and the reaction to the passage of the law that so many people have opposed and over the objections of the majority of the american people that they think it must be repealed. just over half of americans know that this was still stands which is why i am pleased you are here because this lot is on the books. every day more and more regulations are being written to implement this law. it is coming at us like a freight train and we need to know what is in this law and how it is going to affect us. 14% of people think they benefited from the law and 17%

say it has already harmed them. 45% think it is going to make the economy worse. 55% favor full repeal and 67, two thirds of americans favor repealing the individual mandate. the federal government is going to tell each one of us that we must purchase health insurance, what the health insurance must cover, how much we have to pay for it and it will be a federal offense if we are not complying. certainly that applies to employers as well. to give you a sense of what this law is about, this is a map of a third of this law. it looks like a cartoon. it is a serious depiction of some of the 159 agencies that

will be created to implement this law. when you look at the circles they are representative also of the power that is given through this law to various constituencies. look who is at the center. the secretary of health and human services. it says in this 2800 pages of legislation several thousand times the secretary shall. there is great discretion given to federal appointees to implement changes in our health sector. $2.5 trillion health sector. and the secretary of health and human services is at the center of this equation. if you can see this, given your card afterwards and i will send you the power point and a link to it because everybody needs to see this. the staff of the joint economic committee spent a lot of time

trying to understand this law and what the new subsidies were and trying to figure out how this would work. this is about 1/3 of the law. if they tried to put all of it on a slide we would not be able to read any of it. the patients are an afterthought in the quarter as our physicians. congress doesn't have much authority either now that this is in effect. this is a serious law. the president wants nothing more than for us to forget about this, tell us it is nothing but putting 26-year-olds on their parents policies, free preventive care, risk pools for people with preexisting conditions. this in fact is a massive takeover of the health sector in which everyone of us is going to be affected. there are growing list of

concerns now that we see we have to pass it to find out what is in it. we are finding out more and more about what is in it. we will detail in our book why obamacare is wrong for america if you get it on any web site, any electronic or a virtual or actual bookstore we talk about how it is going to affect families and young people and senior citizens, taxpayers, employers, employees, doctors and patients and all of us and our constitutional rights. the burdens on business are extraordinary. the federal government is going to tell you that you must provide health insurance to your workers and what insurance must cover. now you have more flexibility in what those policies are. health care costs not only are rising but will rise even faster as we see what those coverage

mandates are. businesses have to know the household income of their employees to avoid another level of federal fines. not just to know how much you are paying an employee but you have to know their household income because if they should go from employer coverage into one of the exchanges for coverage you have a $3,000 per employee fine instead of a $2,000 fine for not providing coverage. we heard about waivers. the administration got so embarrassed about that decided to stop granting waivers as of sept. 20 second because people kept saying if this law is so great why do people give so many waivers to protect people because people were going to lose their health insurance? analysts from mckinsey and co. estimated as many as 80 to 1 hundred million people could lose the coverage they have now.

maybe be in different cottage -- coverage categories but the promise we heard over and over again if you like your health insurance you can keep your health insurance is clearly not going to be met under this law. many employers are looking for access. there is great resistance from the states. 26 states are suing in federal court to block the law particularly the individual mandate and the requirement that they have to expand their medicaid population dramatically to the point that the state's say it will bankrupt us. we will have no money left for education, public safety, transportation if required to do this. the incredible complexity of this law is daunting and anybody who is trying to figure this out will be overwhelmed and

employers have to figure it out because there are many things other than the individual mandate that you are going to have to comply with as far as paperwork filing etc.. many unintended consequences. one wonders if destroying the health sector could be part of that agenda. file only policies are vanishing in many states. they told companies they must have to sell health insurance to anyone who applies. the child only policy even if they're on their way to a hospital to buy insurance. the company says that is not insurance because people are not paying it over a longer time to insure against the risk of future events. so they have exited the market.

80 to 1 hundred million people could lose their coverage. many will find themselves in the exchanges and that coverage will be very different than the employer coverage they had. costs are soaring. 40% of doctors say they're thinking of leaving their practice sooner than they would have as a result of the rules and regulations and the restrictions they have to comply with under this law. interestingly service employees international union ends in trying to get this lot past was one of the company's, one of the groups that applied for a waiver, said we can't provide coverage for 26-year-old children of our dependence. if we do that we can't afford it. we are already seeing that even people supporting this legislation are realizing that this is not going to work.

small business tax credits. only 12% would qualify. fewer are expected to apply. this is the charge that was developed to help people understand. can you imagine somebody, only companies with 11 to 25 employees have to pay an average wage of less than $25,000 and have to be mathematicians to figure out if they are eligible for these subsidies. this is how we're going to feel getting health care. the federal government is going to be very powerful in the termination writing rules and regulations about how our health sector is going to operate. and the authority we all have to make our own decisions. the battles are going to continue. there's a lot of effort in

congress to dismantle and delay this legislation. i testified tuesday before the house budget committee in a hearing congressman paul ryan called to independent advisory board. the 15 member board that is going to have huge authority over hundreds of billions of dollars in medicare spending affecting tens of millions of seniors. congress has a difficult time having veto power. no administrative or judicial review of this board. really the epitomizes the sense that washington knows best, not doctors or patients. that is why this law must be repealed. strict oversight in congress. the lot of questions about thousands of pages of ridge of let -- regulation being written. as the cases percolate through

the courts the best guess is the supreme court would rule on this by june of 2012 particularly on the constitutionality of the individual mandate. finally i really do believe it will be a political issue which is why i am glad you are here. a lot of people either have given up and said we did everything we could. we tried to get congress to not pass this and they passed it anyway. the president is telling us it is all these little things, preexisting conditions, it is not so scary. whenever you hear that think about the second chart. think of the 159 new agencies. the $2.5 trillion cost. how can we think about creating two huge new entitlement programs when we can't even afford the ones we have now?

it has to be an issue. that is why we hope you will be informed and let your legislators know how this is affecting new, physicians in particular need to let congress know if there are planning -- what their experience is and what they are facing. all of us need to be engaged. this is not just about health care. it is the battle for freedom and our future prosperity. if this goes into effect there is no way we can afford new entitlement programs. there is no way we can protect our freedom. i urge you to do everything in your community to let members of congress know that you know this has to be repealed. it will take a new president and a new congress but it can be done in january of 2013 where i have my sights. thank you very much. over to jenkins 18.

[applause] >> thank you, grace-marie. milton friedman said you have to keep saying the same thing over again until it sinks in. a couple things i will say will be similar to what grace-marie said and case they have sunk in. i am delighted that all of you are here. the patient protection affordable care act was passed -- signed into law on march 23rd, 2010. nancy pelosi, the speaker at the time who is based in san francisco, why does someone like myself have a think take in -- think tank in san francisco? our founder met his wife in san francisco who was libertarian. nancy pelosi on this waiver

issue granted several waivers to high end restaurants in san francisco all of which are owned by her friends. nancy pelosi said we have to pass this bill so we can find out what is in it. that was my cue for writing the truth about obamacare last august. it is available on amazon.com or at your local bookstore. i like to say understanding healthcare's like unraveling an onion. there are many layers and many careful moments. everyone agrees we want affordable health care. the question is how do we achieve it? there are two competing visions. one is my vision which is about am powering doctors and patients. the other fish and is increasing the role of government in our health-care system to increase taxes, subsidies and controls on insurance companies. president obama gave 59 speeches

on why we need obamacare. his vision is medicare for all. ultimately he would like the government to run the total health care system in this country. he did achieve what no other president achieved in 75 years, this affordable care act. people around the world think the united states is a free market in health care. 50% of health care is in the hands of government through medicare, medicaid, health insurance and the d a. we spent 17% of gross domestic product on health care and everyone says it is too much. i don't know if it is too much. we all demand the very best in health care. i grew up in canada under single payer health care. canada spends 10.4% of its gdp on health care. that is what the government can

afford to spend in their global budget but what does that mean for canadians? long lines for care, rationed care and lack of access to the latest technology. canadians on average last year weighted 18.2 weeks from seeing a primary-care doctor to being treated by a specialist. is that what we want in america? on may 2nd the conservative party won an election with a majority for the first time in twenty-three years and a lot of that battle was fought on how do we reform the health-care system? the tories wanted to give patients more power. they wanted to privatize part of the health care system. the liberals said we can get rid of these waiting list by taxing canadians more. the liberal party and the ndp party were virtually eliminated. we may go down the path to what

they're moving away from in canada and in great britain. the affordable care act passed without a single republican vote. as grace-marie said, 54% of americans would like to see it repeals and replaced with an act that does bring about affordable accessible quality care. the doctor shortage issue is major. the center for work force study says 91,000 primary-care doctors and general surgeons there will be a shortage of that amount by 2020. that will result in rationing of care we have come to expect. the president had two bowls under this act. one was to achieve universal coverage. the other was to bend the cost curve down. he said we can achieve universal coverage and get rid of that fifty million americans who are

uninsured. doesn't mean they don't get health care. under the affordable care act he said we would add eighteen million to medicaid and the rest will receive subsidies from the federal government. there will still be twenty million americans uninsured by 2019. is that universal coverage? i would say no. on the cost side the president wanted health care bill that costs $940 billion over ten years or less. we know the congressional budget office has said it is up to $1.43 trillion. 2014-20 with the before -- 2024 this will cost $2.2 trillion because most of the cost drivers do not come into effect until 2014.

the expansion of medicaid, the exchange plans and the disallowing of discrimination based on preexisting conditions. this is going to be very expensive. medicare which came into being in 1965, grace-marie has done a lot of work on that, cost $3 million and was projected to cost $12 billion by 1990. do you think it cost $12 billion? the government to such a great forecaster. it cost $110 billion and is up to $427 billion. it is about to go bankrupt by 2020 for, five years earlier than they ever thought. the president as two main goals of universal coverage and bending the cost curve down, not one of those will be achieved. the president said over and over again the average premium will decline by $2,500. the cbo said it will go up by

$2,100. these are two issues that will not be solved under that great slide that jenkins to show. are have 14 pillars and we don't have time to talk about them. grace-marie talked about a constitutional challenge to the individual mandate. i hope it goes to the supreme court later this fall so that we can get a ruling. if it is deemed unconstitutional i think the whole of obamacare will unravel. this would be the first time in history the government -- congress is going to tell us what we have to do in the private sector. i don't know how many of you watch soap car but they called the prius the prius. we are told we have to buy the highest car whether or not we wanted if this is not ruled unconstitutional. the employer mandate, there is no employer mandate but costs

are going that for employees with employer based coverage. employers are dropping coverage. the mckenzie study which jenkins to wrote about will result in one third of 1 sixty million employers losing their coverage thereby refuting what the president promised everyone. the long term goal is a single payer government run health care system. vermont has passed a single payer bill. birdie sanderson from vermont and jim mcdermott from washington have introduced a single payer health care bill. i think this is all about politics. obama up. the nancy pelosi and harry reid's ideological vision is individuals cannot make decisions for themselves. the government has to make decisions for them.

this is the largest entitlement program since the introduction of the great society and we have to repeal and replace it. the republicans need a strong leader in 2012 to win that election so that it can be in 2013 repealed and replaced. some parts are up for repeal right now. there are funding issues but we need to repeal and replace this terrible legislation because it is going to affect all of us. canadians have an escape valve. if you are on a waiting list and thank you have a brain tumor you come to the united states and pay out of pocket. where are we going to go and where are the best doctors going to go unless we repeal and replace obamacare? i have a number of solutions that can lead to affordable quality care. we need to empower doctors and patients and change the federal tax code. the federal government got us into this mess when price controls were in.

employers got a tax benefit and employees get health care with after-tax dollars. if you lose your job you have to buy it with after-tax dollars and we need to change that so that we can build up the individual markets. states need medical malpractice reform. texas is a great example. they had 16,000 doctors go back into texas capping on economic damages and punitive damages. the cost of medical malpractice has gone down. rick perry signed a couple weeks ago a loser paid law in texas which is a fabulous decision because defensive medicine costs $212 billion a year according to price waterhouse coopers. it is very expensive and leads -- part of the reason for the high cost of health care. states need to reduce the

individual mandate that adds 20% to 50% to the cost of a premium. if i want the health insurance program with in vitro fertilization i should be able to buy it but why should jenkins to turner subsidize me? we need to reduce these costly mandates from in vitro fertilization and alcohol rehabilitation and hair prosthesis. these are very expensive. we need to put doctors and patients in charge of their health care. i would like people to be able to buy insurance across state lines. if you are in new york where it is expensive, why shouldn't you be able to buy insurance in arizona or idaho or wherever you can get a plan that fits your individual needs? i am a fan of health savings accounts. eleven million americans have them. obama does not like them.

under the new law flexible savings accounts, the amount you can deduct on your taxes was reduced to $2,500. over the counter medicine you cannot use your health savings account for that. there is a bill to change these things but some much needs to be done. we will achieve in aerosol coverage if we have universal access to health care. danny williams, premier of newfoundland was diagnosed with a heart valve program and told he would be on a long waiting list what did he do? he went to mount sinai hospital in miami and paid out of pocket for his hard foul replacement. when he came back the press was on his case. how could you do this? canada has the best health-care

-- it is my health, my heart and my choice. we need to ensure we need affordable accessible quality care by changing and getting rid of the patient protection and affordable care jenkins. p.j. o'rourke says if you think health care's expensive now just wait until it is free. thank you. [applause] >> it is nothing like someone who has lived under socialized medicine to understand the risks we are facing. sally writes a weekly column called piping up. we have microphones but tell us who you are as you introduce yourself and ask questions. looking forward to talking to

you. >> i am carol spinach. you two are heroines of mine. i have been riding a health-care reform law for the last year and a half and you have been my inspiration. if i had known you were here i would have brought them so you could have written them. ..

>> obamacare which is like a coming sue tsunami attacking or deficit/debt problem with all -- and it's well known, well publicized that there was fake accounting, um, false assumptions, and, um, absolute lies in there. and i guess i just don't, i don't get it. why isn't this at the forefront of those discussions? >> you could not be more right. this absolutely makes me crazy that they are ignoring the huge tsunami of costs that are coming from this, from this law. the doug holtz-eakin says that the sub subsidies alone for private health insurance exchanges are going to add $1 trillion more. but this is washington's games, you know?

they play all these games. they were pretending that this law is going to reduce the deficit, and one of the members of congress said only in washington can you say you're going to spend another trillion dollars and save the taxpayers money. but it is, it makes me crazy. and we're talking about the entitlements that we have now, medicare and medicaid and social security in particular, that we can't, that are paralyzing these, these deficit reduction talks. and here we have this wave of health care entitlements that are coming, and they're not even on the table now. what are these discussions going to look hike in five, ten -- look like in five be, ten years when we have everybody or the great majority of americans reliant on the government for their -- that's why if there's no other reason, that's why this law has to be repealed. >> and thank you for kind words about our work because we, we're really dedicated and passionate

about it, and we just can't lose this battle, grace. what are we going to do for our next encore? and i agree, i mean, president obama and so many people now -- and young people, too -- have this huge entitlement mentality that we're entitled to government providing all of these programs for us. and we know, i mean, paul ryan made it very clear in his budget talk that these things are going to bankrupt this country. and so, you know, we've had a few things, i mean, the 1099 reporting requirement that anyone would have to report a b to b transaction over $600, that has been repealed. grace marie was involved in the ipap hearings. that's not the ipad, the independent payment advisory board. there are a number of democrats who think that is going to tie the hands of how doctors treat seniors. and so i'm hoping that that ultimately will be repealed. and then, of course, the class act is a very important thing. um, even max baucus, chairman of

the senate finance committee, said the class act which is this long-term care program is a upon city seem. so there's all kinds of things that even democrats realize. who knows whether obama was telling the truth or not, but a week or so ago he said we've really got to think about reducing medicare and social security, the cost of those programs. nancy pelosi almost went ballistic, but she is completely unrealistic and married to a very wealthy businessman in san francisco. >> hello. am i up? >> yes. >> this is more about the strategy of getting it repealed. i think it's unfortunate that it's being considered as an issue on its own. i think that right now with so much pressure in washington to, um, negotiate a budget deal which might include raising the deficit -- i hope not, but it might -- i think that this, that repealing this legislation

should be thrown into the mix. be the republican -- if republicans are backed into a corner where they feel they have to raise the debt limit, and i think it should be a last ditch concession, i think that repealing this legislation should be part of the trade-off. i don't think it's the only trade-off. i think another trade-off should be an end to all federal mandates on the state. on the states. and all federal mandates on the states and repeal obamacare, and i think we got 'em -- excuse me, i was about to say something indecent, so i'll just back off right now. [laughter] >> you know, the house has voted twice to repeal obamacare. the first time they voted on january the 13th on a straight repeal vote, but, of course,

that didn't go anywhere in the senate. then they voted again to repeal the law when they passed the house budget resolution in april. so there have been two efforts. and if presentation and the budget of the republicans in the house have put forward repeals obamacare. so they know that that really is crucial and vital to moving us forward toward the kind of changes that sally described that really put doctors and patients back in charge. um, and about the mandates on the states, the governors actually testified to a senate finance committee hearing that was held in salt lake city yesterday, several governors, and they are pleading for more flexibility over medicaid spending because it's bankrupting their budgets. so your ideas are really where the conversation is going, but i hear your urgency, and i agree with you. >> and as grace marie said, the

house republicans voted to repeal, of course, the senate didn't, and obama said over and over again if it did come to his desk, he would veto it. but i think, you know, the election last november, it was very, very telling. because i think all of those gains for the republicans to take back the house and the gains in the senate were because the american people were very upset with what is happening to their health care system. so, i mean, grace marie and i are so committed to this and getting it repealed and replaced, but we have to keep the drum beat up. the american people have to continue to be concerned and not become laid back about, well, it's in place now, so we'll just go with it. obama did a very tactical thing with the controls on insurance companies like children being able to stay on their parents' insurance plans until age 26. you know, reducing, um, putting the cap at 750,000, the limit for the cost of your care, that will be eliminated in 2014, so care will be, you know, there will be no annual limit or lifetime cap. people think, oh, wow, that's

terrific. but these cost drivers are 2014, and we really -- the american people understand this is not what they want for their health care. >> yes, sir. >> okay. if, don't repeal obamacare and we actually face the shortage of rationing that you girls are referring to, do you think one solution, partial solution, what do you think of these boutique doctor plans where you're paying the doctor a fee referring specifically to mdvip owned by procter & gamble, and you get access to a series of doctors across the country? do you think that that will, those of us who elected that route, do you think that will avoid some of the problems obamacare will cause us? >> you know, the direct medical practice is a really growing -- the only physician that, physicians i know that are happy in the practice of medicine right now are doctors who are doing that. they say we want to take care of

our patients. and people pay their doctors a fixed annual fee, um, anywhere from $600, sometimes it's $50 a month to sometimes several thousand depending upon what the level of service is. but doctors want to take care of patients. and they've, basically, said we want out of health insurance. and some of them have actually gotten out of medicare altogether. so i think it's, it's what doctors want to do, but many of them are afraid to do it. and i think, actually i'm frightened, and many of them are very worried, actually, that if this legislation goes into effect that they will be told that if any of their medical education was paid for through taxes and most of them receive medicare support, that they are there for obligated -- they are, therefore, obligated to treat programs, so they're worried they're going to be conscripted. >> and this whole idea you talk

about is called concierge medicine, and in costa rica there's a private hospital where a lot of top surgeons are practicing. if you have a stroke, you're not going to go to costa rica, but for things that need to be fixed and don't need to be taken care of right away, this concierge medicine is very, very popular. people think the american medical association represents all doctors in this country, and, in fact, the ama only represents about 17% of doctors. it is not speaking for all docs, and there are a number of groups that have sprung up that grace-marie and i are very excited about, docs for patient care, these are growing groups of docs that are concerned about doctors getting out of the practice of medicine, retiring early and what does it mean. and, you know, the president keeps saying we need more family, um, general practitioners, primary care doctors. you know, the canadian

government took over the health care system in 1974. do you think there are a lot of primary care doctors in canada? 17% of canadians, 17 million out of 32 are waiting to get a primary care doc because no docs want to stay in primary care. they want to be specialists because they're union members, and their salary is determined by the government. >> [inaudible] >> oh, yes. and, um, grace-marie is on the board of advisers, and in 2008 i set up the benjamin rush society which is a federal society for medical students and medical doctors. we have chapters in 17 medical schools from harvard to duke to george washington to stanford, and we put on debates exposing medical students toss the fact there is an alternative to government 46 run health care because -- government-run health care because the teaching docs, they are 100% behind the idea of single-payer goth health care. -- government health care.

you will find that about 65% of these students say they believe universal coverage is the responsibility of the federal government. after we've done our post vote, it comes down to about 60%. but a lot of these med students say, you know, we've never heard or thought about this. so grace-marie spoke on our debate at gw, we're trying to educate. we're not telling them they have to become free market docs, but you have to be exposed to the fact that there is an alternative because 49% of graduating residents are now joining hospitals instead of going into private, pay-for-service medicine, and this is very, very worrying. >> yes. i mean, i think talking about the financial part is, certainly, very important be, but i'm glad that you are bringing out a lot of the, um, sort of what's going to happen to you personally. i think this terms of, for example, the hippocratic oath don't you think ipad violates that because the government is

going to tell you what kind of medicine you can practice? and i think we are very, very naive if we think that private medicine is going to survive because the single-payer people don't want it to. and i think they'll figure out things maybe just like you said, if you've had any government money for your, you know, medical. but i just think they're going to disappear because are you going to -- who's going to build private hospitals for these doctors to use? i don't know. i am very, very concerned. >> well, and, actually, it's physician-owned hospitals are direct targets of this legislation. they said unless you have that, unless you are medicare certified by last december, you can't bill a private hospital. so it knows the risk of people trying to escape the system, and it's trying to close all the exits. you're absolutely right. >> don't kid yourself. they're going to go away.

>> and this mandate or this requirement for employers, by the way, the employers have to pay a $2,000 fine if they don't provide medical insurance. how many of you actually think it's going to stay at $2,000? in massachusetts the fine is on track to be equivalent to the cost of health insurance, and now massachusetts has the most expensive health insurance in the country. so we already know where this is going. federal rules and mandates are going to do everything they can to close every exit. >> how do you think the goldwater lawsuit is going to go against -- do you know anything about that? is. >> it's not constitutional. you cannot have appointed, people who are appointed having control over hundreds of billions of dollars in federal spending. no judicial review, no administrative review, and congress has very high hurdles

that it has to reach in order to be able to overrule it. and the president wants to sequester any funds that the congress might pass to overrule the ipads. it's shockingly powerful to have these appointees, basically, be able to have the force of law. these are ultra czars. >> right. >> and it absolutely has to be repealed, and democrats are not willing to defend it. >> and is it constitutional to bind another congress? can they really do that like obamacare says it is? and do people -- >> well, we're going to find out. >> -- understand that obamacare has already gutted medicare. it's already happened. if we don't repeal it, the costs have already come outment -- out. >> certainly, the ipad is a rationing board, and these bureaucrats who haven't been appointed but who are going to be appointed are going to have so much power, and for the senate to overturn they would

have to have a three-fifths majority which would be virtually impossible, so this has to be repealed sooner rather than later. >> and this'll be, this'll be the last question. we only have about three and a half minutes left. >> okay. should be relatively straightforward. my name's you know krause, and since health savings accounts were mentioned, i'd like people to be aware that that is an adjunct to a high deductible health insurance plan. unfortunately, you cannot have that plan if you have any other health coverage. and once one applies for social security, one must enroll in medicare part a which is another health insurance plan that precludes having a high deductible health insurance plan with a health savings account. now, there are fliers around, i see one of my colleagues put these fliers around about this particular lawsuit which has to do with the practice of the

social security administration having in it policy manual this provision that you must be in medicare part a without -- otherwise you cannot collect social security. if you subsequently decide to remove yourself from medicare part a, the social security administration requires that you pay back every monthly payment that you have received in addition to any medicare expenses that were put out on your behalf. so if medicare by the government's own admission is heading for bankruptcy, why will they not let us out of part a? and that's not only a summit of the lawsuit -- subject of the lawsuit that's going on, but it's also a subject for legislation that was just introduced by senator demint and representative johnson from texas. so just hope everybody is aware

of the fact that we are having these mandates placed on us not by force of law, but by bureaucratic policy. >> well, and, you know, you're absolutely right. and, i mean, i always ask the question why should people in this country have to go into medicare when they turn 65? i mean, i think, you know, if you're at a certain income level, it may be what you want. but people shouldn't be forced if they take social security because a lot of people that are over 65 like rupert murdoch, etc., can afford to buy their own health insurance, and it would reduce the cost pressure on medicare. so i think it's a very, very important point and, you know, paul ryan in his talk talked about means testing, increasing the eligibility age to 67 -- not until 2033, it's a long time from now. but the premium support idea, there's so much because this program, medicare, is going bankrupt. and, of of course, obama wanted $500 billion in cuts the medicare over ten years, and seniors are finally waking up to

the fact that that money is going to be used to add 18 million people to the rolls of medicaid, and it's going to impact their ability to get the kind of health care that they have come to expect. >> and just one quickie. have you seen -- >> so -- >> -- the commercial on local tv about what was congress thinking when they cut $100 million from medicare hospital funds? what were they thinking? why don't they bring up that $500 billion you just mentioned? >> that's exactly right. well, we need all of your voices. this is, this conversation is not over. we cannot rely on the supreme court. to overrule this. it is going to have to happen at the polls in 2012, and we hope all of you will be part of the conversation. thank you all very much and thank you, sally. [applause] >> thank you. >> you're watching 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2's booktv.

>> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants to know. >> in well, what i've read recently is a wonderful book that i wrote. it's called "the speech," and i reread it. you know what? it's a good book, and it deals with the filibuster that i gave in december talking about a very, very bad agreement reached by the president and republicans on extending bush's tax breaks for the very wealthy. it also goes into some detail as to why the middle class in this country is collapsing and also talks about the growing inequality in america and what this means for the future of our country. so that's -- i understand that's self-advertising, and that was my book. but i did reread it, and it was a good book. there's another book that i have read recently which i liked very much, and that's called "third world america" by arianna huffington. it's a very readable book, she's

a good writer. and she touches on, you know, the trends that we have been seeing for a number of years in terms of our physical infrastructure, in terms of education, in terms of health care that, frankly, if we do not reverse -- and this is her point -- we're going to end up looking like a third world country. and what that's about is a friend of mine came back last year from china. he was in an airport in china, a new, modern airport, flew into the united states, and while he was waiting for a plane back to vermont, he had to be sitting on the floor. it was crowded, plane was delayed, and he was wondering which was the third world country, the united states or china. so a lot of ominous trends in this country moving us the wrong direction in terms of physical infrastructure, more and more people without health insurance, growing gap between the very rich and everybody else. the dominance of big money interests on wall street, and i think arianna's point is we've got to get our act together and

reverse those trends so that we become the great nation that we know that we can and should be. another book that, in fact, i'm reading right now is a book about the life of somebody i have known for a number of years. i wouldn't say he's a good friend, but i've known him for many years, and that is willie nelson. and the book is called "willie nelson: an epic life." it is not the most readable book in the world because i think what joe does is give us the name of everybody in the world who had anything to do with willie nelson. but given the fact that willie nelson is one of the more, is clearly one of the great entertainers of our time and he's really an icon and a unique type of individual because of who he is and his entertainment

qualities. in vermont where i've seen him a number of times, all over this country, he brings together just a huge range of people. you know, most singers will appeal to this group of people, that group of people. willie brings them all together, and i think that has a lot to do with his personality, his decency as a human being, his gentleness, he's a very gentle man. his decency, he's been just a very, very strong supporter of rural america family farmers. so if people are interested in learning about the life of a guy who was born in arkansas, his family migrated to texas, you know, he worked in the cotton fields, he, you know, grew up very, very poor, and he has a unique tie, i think, to working americans today. so willie is, you know, i'm a big fan of his, and this is a good book which talks about his life. last book which is, you know, not -- it's pretty interesting,

actually. the topic might be considered to be boring is a book called "the financial crisis," and that was put together by the commission that congress established to look at the causes of the financial crisis, what went on in wall street and how they ended up bringing us to the place where we are right now which is the worst recession this country's experienced since the great depression. and that is, it's tough reading because what you're seeing is, you know, the incredible recklessness and dishonesty from these people on wall street, you know, producing worthless financial instruments and selling them and leading us to where we are now and talking about the great power of wall street and their business models and so forth and so on. so i think that if anyone wants to understand what's going on in america today, you've got to understand wall street, you have to understand the incredible

power that they have economically and politically. and this book actually does a pretty good job in getting into that. so those are some of what i have read and am reading. >> tell us what you're reading this summer. send us a tweet at booktv. >> you're watching booktv here on c-span2. here's a look at our prime time lineup for tonight. starting at 7 eastern, booktv attends a book launch party for radio host armstrong williams, author of the recently published "reawakening virtues: restoring what makes america great." then at 8 former u.s. senator bob graham talks about his novel "key toss the kingdom" in which he discusses the attacks on 9/11. then at 9 p.m. eastern former baltimore homicide detective kelvin sewell and stephen janis take an in-depth look at murders in baltimore.

and we conclude tonight's prime time programming with our weekly "after words" program. this week steven brill, author of "class warfare," looks at the fight to fix america's schools. he's interviewed by diane ravitch. >> and booktv is at bookexpo america, the annual publishers' convention in new york city. looking at some of the fall 2011 books that are coming out, and we're pleased to be joined by george gibson who is the publisher of bloomsbury press. mr. gibson, tell us about some of your books, and let's start here with carl bogus' book on william buckley. >> an icon, of course, of the conservative arena. but be, and he's, he was really the father of conservativism as it is known today. but a remarkable man, absolutely remarkable man, and very little has been written about him, and this is the first full-scale biography of him. >> did mr. bogus have access to

any of his library or anything? >> he had access to every available resource. bogus, interestingly enough, is more liberal in his political persuasions, so it's a very interesting, balanced biography. >> well, somebody who is not liberal if in their persuasion is an author we've covered often on booktv who is victor davis hanson, but now i see a novel coming out by him. >> this is his first novel, and a remarkable epic it is about a great greek general and the extraordinary battles he fought. it brings alive warfare in the ancient world in a way that very few people can. and because he knows so much about history and about ancient history, this book is alive with that kind of detail, so it's a fascinating thing for him to do to write a novel, and i think it's going to be a great success. >> mr. gibson, up on your shelf here el narco: inside mexico's criminal insurgency. >> well, ian grillo who is the

author has gone inside the drug insurgency in mexico and has interviewed everybody involved from the gang leaders through the police, and he tells the inside story of what is happening in mexico, the extraordinary upheaval in their society. um, and because he tells it from all angles, you come to understand who is responsible for it. the government bears a responsibility as well as the gangs, and it has a huge effect on the unite because drugs, obviously, from mexico are all over the united states. >> "american crisis." >> phil fowler is a distinguished professor of history at northeastern, and we were talking a few years ago, and he said he wanted to write a book about the famous speech george washington gave to his troops at newberg in 1783 right after the war had supposedly ended, but the war actually hadn't ended, and i said to bill i thought he ought to write a larger story about that from the years 1781-'83.

we think it ended when cornwallis surrenders to george washington at yorktown. this is the story of those tumultuous and dangerous two years the united states could have so easily have fallen apart in those years. it had no money, the states were not allied, they wouldn't give any money to pay the army, so the army was unpaid, the army was on the verge of mutiny. the treaty with paris had not been signed yet, so the country was in complete chaos, and in many ways washington held it together during those two years. >> those are some of the books coming out in the fall 2011 from bloomsbury. if you would, give us a snapshot of bloomsbury press. >> it's more than just bloomsbury press, blooms bloomsa has the main bloomsbury imp print and then walker and company.