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a including jimmy carter, mikhail gorbachev and the dalai lama. and today, he will be discussing his recent book, "islam means peace" understanding the muslim principle of nonviolence today. so without further ado, amitabh pal. [applause] thanks, colin. i beg to start off with something that happened just today. this is something so pertinent to my book and what we'll be speaking about. mark anthony chairman was

executed by the state of texas. how did that pertain to what i'll be talking about? he actually in the aftermath of september 11th went around looking for arabs to kill as revenge for september 11th, managed instead to kill somebody from india, somebody from pakistan and gravely wounded the immigrants. ralph we subscribe to "the new york times" that happened to them. i couldn't open my eyes or talk or do my job. i couldn't eat or drink anything. my face was swollen, gunshot wounds at my face was horrible. i couldn't believe i was happening. i said please god, give macy's bag. he was discharged the day after being defeated.

over the next several months calming effect on peoples couches and had to rely on samples of medication, including eyedrops. how does all this pertain to "islam means peace"? believe it or not it is at the forefront of getting clemency. when asked why, he said that was raised very well done the parents and teachers. they taught me to put yourself in another's shoes, even as they urge you. forget and move on. it'll be something good to you. my islamic faith teaches me this, too. someone said this is an act of god and a lot of americans wants you to do it. i took the courage to do it. i decided forgiveness and what he did was ignorance. i decided i had to do something to save both our lives.

unfortunately, truman was put to death by the state of texas yesterday at 7:00. not completely in vain. he was allowed white supremacists, to pride for a long time and what he did. in the end, his deeds, his actions in trying to get incarnate the completely changed his mind and he said in the free world i was free, but i would not defend myself because if they hate i carried in my heart. this has really touched my heart what he did then the heart of many others, especially since for the last 10 years all we have heard about this evil islamic states can be. it is through but all are not evil. he's a survivor survivor of my hate. his deep islamic relief gave him

the strength to forgive them. that should be an example for us all. and here i go back to the title of my book, which is derived from a quotation by gandhi in many decades. the vengeance is exactly the same in spite of suffering so much that we have taken on all sewn in spite of being disabled and so badly burned, it's quite remarkable step of trying to get

it has possible killer who was wounded so badly clemency. this is quite a remarkable moment to be talking about what i'm talking about beach has just two months away from the killing of osama bin laden, hopefully it's not the ending of al qaeda, then at least they have a new leader, ivanov said harry. but i will hold that his passing away is both literal and symbolic. and at the same time, it's such an exciting time to be in because 2011 has been an incredibly momentous year for the exact opposite of the philosophy that osama bin laden was discussing in that pacifism and nonviolence. if i was speaking even light last year about pacifism in the muslim world, i would have to explain myself.

but as some of you would remember, two years ago that it gets some coverage. not this night as it should have perhaps, but at least some coverage. but no other example of the sites listed book, reading from very recent instances, pakistan 2007, 2008 with the sheriff come the gender research on there for many years. the small island nation longest-serving dictator in asia was back a few years ago the balkans, further back muslim gandhian. iran was the only partial exception. but now when i see people i tell them about peaceful protest in the muslim world. i don't get sort of physical and blank looks because the last six to eight months has been truly

momentous. i think it may be the most momentous year in modern arab history and one of the most, perhaps in global history, at least since world war ii. december 2008, 1 man and not get back to and. mohammed hijazi lead himself as an protest. that act has set off this remarkable chain of events, where there is almost not a single country untouched by mass protests from morocco all the way to the border of pakistan. so is the arab world plus i ran here, so these countries have been shaken by protests. in two countries, protesters have managed to get success. tunisia and egypt. i'll talk more about this as we go on. in other countries, i would advise people not to be impatient.

you know, let's wait. i'm confident in at least a couple other countries, by rain for example, that they will be positive change. it's still six to eight months. let's remember, gandhi could be plus years after he came back to india. it took martin luther king a decade. in this teenage, we have very limited attention span and we should give people more time. you know, it's not invented here, so we should definitely be patient. so the theme of my bookcase, you know, islam and nonviolence, islam and pacifism. i caution people and tell him because they say what about al qaeda? what about the taliban? i'm not saying there's an absence of violence. what i'm saying is please do not be a strand of nonviolence, 80 pacifism that can be used in

engaging in protests. and they have. a fish on my book on icann and again, back in the 1940s, 1930s, and now of course the green movement and tunisia, egypt and other countries in the arab world. what's happening in the middle east has changed people's minds about the world and about islam. but unfortunately, not did not. and that's the reason i think if i may be a bit less humble, that the book is needed. a recent statistic was the one that distressed me the most. march 2011, after tunisia and egypt started, they ask americans what they think of american muslims. nearly three in 10, 20% said

that americans are sympathetic to al qaeda. that to me is very distressing number. i mean, you can argue that american muslims are more devout, maybe fundamentalist if you want to use a loaded word. but to say that three out of 10 americans think that american muslims are sympathetic to possibly the worst terrorist in the world is something that is indeed quite appalling night and can something that needs to be challenged and refuted. i miss that thing is that this is based on complete ignorance. and the evidence, recent 2010 september 2010, the survey finds that only half of americans know that the koran is the holy book of muslims. now that is quite astounding that she would form an opinion in the absence of this central sort of knowledge in the quran

and have such strong opinions about muslims. also, maybe less astounding, given the lack of geographical information that a lot of people have in this country. one third of americans -- only one or two that indonesia is the most popular miss him come cherry. now, there's a problem they are beyond ignorance. what happens -- and this is the misperceptions about islam, than americans generally feel islam is middle eastern islam. the largest asia, pakistan,

bangladesh and indonesia. so i would like to start with islam and then get a bit of the history of islam and then move on from there quickly to actual instances of what i think is important. otherwise he can keep a good game from the koran. we can keep on sword as siding and counter citing from history but not her sister packed just a certain religion. if i may say so and i am not making this. in practice today, islam is much more forgiving. really. i mean come the state of texas has executed, simon and refused in spite of that please visit times. so it's practiced in the end.

so a right to start with the source of the koran and the main source of coors is the holy book of the koran. and you know, we can keep on, as i said scouting and counter citing, but there's enough inerrancy cms, which can be easily seized upon and used that anyone who wishes to follow the path of tolerance, nine planets, reconciliation. the most famous conan the koran to make dealing with religion is that once that can. there is no compassion. those who wish may wish,

otherwise who disbelieve. severally this in the koran. for example, sites in the way of god. but do not begin hostilities. god does not like the aggressor. then there is, god forgave you to fight those who fight match her faith and do not trade bureau. the just and kind, for god loves the chest. so you know, tyrannous passages that came across in the koran itself that muslims towards all people and of course it is the concept of the people of the book in the koran, which includes christians and muslims also believe in the world testament. so there is this interfaith motion. muslims follow it in the daily packed dais.

depends of course from individual to individual. there is a comparative religion scholar and i love the quote that she has. it's adamantly opposed. its vision is inclusive. it recognizes disability and praises all the great prophets of the past. she's an axman. i would recommend that you look at your stats. she has written a book on islam's prophet, mohammed. just incredible stuff basically. there's a lot of coming and no, mercy and forbearance are two qualities that are so commonly mentioned in the koran. for example, the unity of mankind is something else that is mentioned very commonly. the quran again and again asks the prophet mohammed not to exert pressure in the name of

religion. they not refuse any proposal for peace. one can go on and on basically put as these scholars have an american professor who does this notion that a lot people have, at the races of the koran aggravate -- aggravate the earlier ones, which are much more peaceful. and interpretation. the translator is hispanic. all of these basically, you know, pointing out that the koran can be independent in a realistic way. from there, go to the prophet

mohammed. from here come the prophet mohammed is very unique because then my chief says, more like i guess the hindu demigod, he was a fighter and a religious leader at the same time. so that he too is certain construction in the minds of westerners that was much more warlike than g says. but if we examine his life, the lot of scholars have pointed out, number one, for 30 long years -- 30 years ago i was quite a young man. a decade and a half. for 30 long years, he was in mac at. and there were humiliations and atrocities insistent upon his followers. and for that entire span of

time, we refuse to fight back. and the wonderful quotations have asserted that in god to give him strength and to forgive. for 30 long years, he was. after 13 years or so, that's a nonviolent act, which is he left with his followers or mac itunes edina. and that's the most in the history of islam. then, it gets more complicated. once he was in medina come he did raise an army and defend himself. now however, scholars point out that his conduct was defensive. for example, armstrong, there is

an indian scholar who said it's here in every case involving violence. the prophet of the hominid acted under provocation. his attitude was that of reconciliation. he did not have proof because god warn the faithful and god does not love the aggressors. so you know, in every instance be much fantasists forced upon him. but he returned to mac guy. he started forgave everybody there in spite of the fact they were fighting him. and generally he signed a number of peace treaties and he was very untapped at bringing about reconciliation between the tribes on the peninsula. so to think of him as a warlike

figure is a misconception. and then those funds especially think i'm half the center of peace and love and their conception is even more like. so basically now, turn from the quran and the prophet mohammed to the history of islam which is all the best. he says that scholars long ago disposed of the problem became the best into conflict or hasn't been any other world religion. islam cannot. the specific date. and if you look at the actual

history of islam and for example the largest concentrations of muslims in south asia is in bangladesh. is in bangladesh. is in bangladesh. is in bangladesh. the religion has a concentration impact and. pakistani punjab. of course they talk about studying islam there. stay to the southwestern indiana is the highest numbers of muslims in india proper. you find remarkable the ahead of

any other part of india. let's go to indonesia. africa has merchants. the arabs did have a large portion of the middle east in a remarkable span of time. however, scholars point out that there was the ability of the main ones per matcher fee and this may sound totally real, but in egypt, for example, many of the bishops had in theaters. there is that going on. most importantly and i think the first is something that should

really be pointed out. it took a couple of centuries. in fact, a lot of these arab invaders have snobbishness and did not actually care for them. so for example, egypt says -- and this is why it did this on and sacrifice institutionalized charities, there is a festival like many other who establishes

and essentially from the eighth, ninth, 10th, it is not what is happening, but a lot of people think it happened. so it was established. in here, the french claim that the body responded. and the ottoman empire was remarkably until the end. and of course there is a huge

battle. there was much more of turkish nationalism. happened as a terrible, terrible episode in the street. that could not negate the centuries preceding. and you know, even in other places. and as i said, and a lot of these places, instead of islam was spread by sufis and in the past imagination again, they were part of the extraneous. and all these ideas are after.

they are not extremist islam and are exemplifying muffin views. they are very much within islam. in fact come in islam, this is tricky, but so many people don't identify themselves. either a sunni or shia. however, sunni practice is in india as a continent. you go to indonesia and you have these dog is. i mean, in the profession of faith is very much suit the things. the women know has had basically

have women in the circle, i would say of any other society at the time and receive the idea of peace as i say is rooted, which is a balm in -- all mankind. so peace is something that they have forever. you know, particularly some sufis, you know, to five,, chambers have this very complex of the higher. generally the people have south asia have been remarkably. he who is not my friend, may god be his friend. he who causes me to stress.

he who pleases my god with malice in his heart, may every travel up and signify. that cc is so much just a minor of. arc med of course also be shown as remarkable and is buried in india. amazingly and palestine was ever

under the influence of the sufis we can get some idea of that. for example. ..

>> >> so those are examples.

ms. that difficulty. [inaudible]

soleil in mid negative leasing and again during contributions although again sit the legacy has civilization through the message of love, compassion tightness to mankind with the understanding between the muslims. this is the publication that the reason -- area of kashmir today ms. davis going new-line is now spread by otherp

and as i said, the most possible the reason they become that way is the tests they declare themselves to

be the second coming of christ which makes them political in the eyes of the lowered but the problem is to know about them agree or disagree now my friends and ask the question of how do people recognize? and they may not be able to but the first one is in in pakistan at queens college i had the of cluster last year.

complete the his music and philosophy and a life. saying the same thing with his music and his lyrics and an incredible person in india and pakistan and again and again. fit also been some they shut it says it does a search for knowledge seeing who you are. third knowing yourself and to god. that the one it is right to add to the bottom.

again, having a huge impact on his life and music. yes. from south india. incredible person. but he converted to islam his self. and again somebody who is drawn hist says there is no distinction. this just look into your heart in feel love. since he says love kn transcend all issues and whatever else divides us the

gentlemen in the african interests. but then those that were heavily influenced faugh and from egypt which won a grammy and islam for me as i would like people to understand my music. so it is incredibly famous people also from south asia and africa that has amazing relevance. i have to deal with that 1/2 which this jihad.

it is not murder it is a struggle and the greatest of the within yourself by it show you in my book the details. even for defense of islam their word deviated ax you cannot attack civilians but needless to say that taliban is completely in contradiction but jihad is the defensive or the offensive doctrine of course, the it is is debatable but i come down on the side faugh -- come down on this side meant to be a

defensive doctrine. with the clear rules laid down saying about jihad it is difficult to find support for those tactics in the islamic tradition. under the grouping of the evolution that i could move on to real-life examples but then complete leave skipped over that aspect of it comes off often enough in the course of islam.

>> two move on two real-life examples. but then in the first time the first deputy prime minister the man who has a long beak like knows it is a tragedy. hear people of the other per cent her grow gender rights and

social equality and and of may's eight amazing example that seems almost made up. and he took all the inspiration from islam and was the most successful practitioner it is remarkable for a number of reasons for a couple of reasons, never lived, its was easy because there was hardly ever media, number two because they could never

believe the pashtuns with their go for nonviolence. it is absolutely remarkable. the amount of violence 300 people killed in a single day. some people just gone down. passion of left up the bodies and coming to the front line again just coming back. remarkable examples. and then with the emphasis the greatest islamic extreme for the fierce the but even with dad's exodus of now

with the force to annihilate him but to phone the he was attacked 50 took up arms and meant to be that worthy of the highest praise and does not return. if a man is a slap in the face he is worthy of the highest praise. and number of reasons like ghandi it is just one autobiography from the 1960's. the day pashtun nationalist nonetheless. and then had to go to jail

again and then endure the pakistani government. in india's he is be little. so the ada is he to a consideration and then said it is nothing surprising from non-violence. but the profit all the time from act up. a member of his group and interviewer following nonviolence because of ghandi and in the of profit said that violence does not solve anything. and then the other than his

daughter and she made the movie but it is not even available for purchase the last time that i checked. i tried to get a copy myself. but again not a single one. died at the age of 98. the first time i heard about that in the northwest region of pakistan. >> and a theologian no less. somebody who was dedicated to the same principles as ghandi is there disharmony

became the number education minister. for the major independence movement. another remarkable person somebody who gave inspiration from non-violence but now all i must ratify that it had much less because of the process

but another person became again interested in india. ghandi himself believe not only islam but it quoted muhammed as a model with his attempts to adobe ideal society. i found the iraqi member of parliament sightseeing ghandi. >> from the '30's and 40's up through the 1990's not only in the balkans but it

been albania built a remarkable movement lasting protect aids. a battle of civil disobedience that up part of the wars of serbia because of that it was possible. has also many of you may know, there is a remarkable fabulous society and very feudalistic.

and then also defied for the better part of a decade but unfortunately he did not achieve the full potential. was not active enough and in the end, made to intervene but still it is a rebel movement. but what other countries in the balkans as bad as they

were fined it was the right person at the right time. if they could grow plate but it achieved a lot and save the lives. and then in kosovo. this is an example from two years ago. with the movement to gain some attention from the west. here was an example not only

bought by the regime and they adopted islam but then found a way to resist the prophecy. the still are keeping at it. but take the inspiration but then still able to function. then comprised of the group's and then by both

sides as well as militants. but the most remarkable that this is the most decent part of man however then through the year early 90's, the only completely non-violent movement what is it? the then, sadly some

violence should to the palestinians who were collaborating. however this lourdes is completely non-violent. again not the number of days left also using the range of tactics but then they fell sharply.

could then they were looking on. and what happened. [inaudible] and dissected unfortunately was much more wild. within its it is part of palestine. but then with the palestinian man. as a result, the number of places in palestine the many of those is from the

democracy but nonviolent that jimmy carter, said they showed their support and is still troubling and some of the places. [inaudible] in despite the remarkable. [inaudible]

for that is from the chief justice of pakistan. why is it important to? because of the achievement of the response and coming down into the streets again so in the mid 2000's it was shut off basically with good housekeeping questions. . .

>> here you have one the largest movements in the world. it was very recent protest against. this is -- i don't know how many of you you know about the maldives. it's an island nation. tourist destination. the person of who is there, i don't have a picture of him because at my right, i have have to have a room scan for these dictators. so i don't have a photograph of him. he's also 30 years longesttiving dictator in the nation. even in the middle east, i don't know if anyone has been there longer. and in 2008, he ruled until he was outed by a large democratic

movement using islam, using nonviolent protest and as a result, they had to postdemocratic protest in the street. and then nasheed came to power in the remarkably -- remarkable light of history. let me read this to you. after 18 months in solitary confinement, he was sentenced three and a half year. by the time the sentenced was handed down, the damage has become overwhelming. his backbone was damaged and he was suffering from internal bleeding. in 2008, he was sworn in.

incredible story, really. maldives is a very active one. nasheed asked him to follow and the most forgiving and expansionive set, islam teaching him there is no future. and better eventful cannot become. and when asked -- i mean torture, amnesty international in the year coming to power not as the domestic one. this is something that, i think, deserves to be known.

you are right. absolutely. that's why he's in the forefront of the fight against global warming. he's comes into where we are now which is basically the middle east. remarkable saga of what's been happening. as i said, two dictators, ben ali, and hosni mubarak has been ousted. in tunisia, and egypt. the most important country, certainly the most populous has a pace in the best imagination. perhaps because of the pyramids or whatever it is. egypt is something that really has caught the public's eye in the united states also. perhaps not enough. but still there had been some change in the discourse about the middle east. so two successful instances i

would urge people not to be pessimistic. all of the stories about how fundamentalist are going to take over. it's still something that's in the making in the works, but i myself am quite optimistic there are elections scheduled in both of countries. we should wait and watch. another muslim country about which they said the same negative take. democratic have not taken over. same was said about tunisia in 1998. it was a flawed country. all democracies -- no democracy in the world is perfect. but well on its way to becoming a full fledged democracy. i would urge people to have patient for egypt, for tunisia, and i'm optimistic about syria, bahrain, and so many other countries that all of this is happening. i think many of them will change.

there's not -- almost not a single country that has been not effected. i mean it's truly a remarkable, remarkable events since 2008. for people that think islam has no role in this. islam is so deeply rooted in people's consciousness. there's a good article that said look. from social solidarity to suffering to forbearance to group activities. islam has impact people of these country when they do any of the activities. it's there and just because they are not siting the koran or islamic sources to say there's an absence of muslim influence in such deeply muslim society is logic about what's happening out

there. you know, everybody is calling for democracy. it's just remarkable inspect last six to eight months. all of this started with one person and so much in the contrast to what we had the image of islam, image of muslims suicide bombings that start inflecting just upon themselves. only on themselves as an act of protest against the social economic conditions he was in. he could never have imagined the resident. i think the moment that whereas somewhere would have won, he would have been amazed of the

vendor. he changed tunisia and egypt and the middle east forever regardless of what happens in the months and years to come. the appointment is honored by the egyptian point. i'd like to end with it. what is to give light? what is to give light must endure, burning a man once said. another man became the match stick that set a nation aflame. be fire and his appetite cannot be sacrificed like freedom. injustice and desperation make men combustible. they can neither loft or stream. the knife begins to taste the same. from egypt to lebanon to yemen, the light from the burning man is catching, those with nothing with lose are offered.

and, you know, i think, really it's just remarkable what one bern did. of course, there were so many factors about what's been happening in the middle east. i'm so happy the book, as i said, has become so topical. and what's happening in the last six or eight months, what's been happening currently in the middle east and so many other instances. the book is a premiere for nonviolence in nonmuslim societies, and the middle east, and i would urge you all to take a look at my book. thank you so much. [applause] [applause] >> any questions? >> i think in any religion you

take it too seriously, you are going to have problems. that's true with islam, hinduism, mormons, it's universal to all of the religions. if you follow them too literally and too seriously at the expense of everything else, that's what you are going to have the problem. >> yes, if i may cite my own religion. the guita on the discourse of the battle field. if you follow it literally, it is a justification for war. what's happened that gandhi and all of the aggressive conformers for follow it, not literally. you can. and or it use justification. you are right any any religion taken too literally can lead to problems. absolutely.

>> i really appreciated your presentation tonight. i must say i'm not totally optimistic about some of the same things that you are. you mentioned sufiism, but not jihadism. i tried to read, but couldn't get through it all. >> yeah, wahabbi islam. my book deals -- it's not a book on islam per se. wahabbi islam, i agree. i've written in the past which even i have problems with. and you are right, you know, being a sort of just endowed with so much oil must be, they were able to spread that into islam and a number of countries in south asia and the middle east much through the detriment,

in my honest opinion, of islam. in egypt, it has a presence. how much of a presence, i wonder population, how much of a hold, i guess we'll know in the months and years to come in the democratic elections and come to know, the population will. fatah is basically just an edict. islam being interestingly democratic in that sense, any order of, you know, man can issue an fatah, which is an edict on anything. it can be on any social or political sort of ration spect and doesn't necessarily have to deal with the violence or whatever. it can be anything too. i know that with the notion of fatah. >> i think every western religion seems to have problems

between the progressives, maybe, and the orthodox. >> yes. >> and in islam, what do you think are the roadblock between those who practice the orthodox, versus those who practice some of the more passist movements? >> one is official backing of the aggressive taking of islam. certainly the most obvious example would be in a wahabbi islam and the saudi backing of that spreading to other countries. they have come into conflict, for example, in indonesia and other places. that would be a major, major roadblock and obstacle. official not the saudi, but the countries do the official sort of discourse on islam being not necessarily con -- conducive to

pacifist. >> the official acceptance? >> promo dance or acceptance, yeah. >> another transition i've heard for the word islam is submission. i don't know enough about arabic to know what the various implications or -- what is the exact transition? >> you know, the problem is i'm here and not as we speak of myself but what i've researched. islam, the good work can mean, submission, or the variance of that. it's either submission to peace or peace to the submission to the will of god. various interpretations, you know? and there is no sort of answer to that. i wish i knew. i don't think even scholars completely agree on single interpretation of more of the word islam, literally means you can get credit to meet in a

different way. yes? >> i think of sufism, which is a lot of what you seem to be referring to in islam which is a special part of the muslim tradition, and a very central one. and i believe that from my solve study of different reasons, the study of most religions are such as you describe sufism, peace loving, very heartful, and pretty universal. mostly the same sorts of things. i know that in my own tradition, the mystics are a very small percentage of us. i'm wondering if you can take a guess of what percentage of muslims that you can look at. >> i try to answer that.

formally, very few. but the practice of a lot of muslims are viewed and performed by sufi islam. in southeast asia, the islams, a lot of them, they have a large presence. south africa, i would say, but perhaps the single exception of the persian gulf which i have not found it to have. there is a strong presence and in a lot of the practices such as peace, you know, shrines, believing in the saints. one would think and hope that with the saints their beliefs would also come into the idea notion of islam too. for many muslims, it does, for many it doesn't. many muslims try to find themselves. even among muslims, the almost groovy, hippyish type of

culture. [laughter] >> yes? >> i'm an american muslim. born in wisconsin and was raised in wisconsin and in 1995, i can't help but be encouraged by yourself and what you are trying to do. being a muslim for 16 years prior to september 11, i've had a concern that something might happen because some of the elements in the community as many religion communities like the kkk and christians and the tymel tigers and southeast asia and something might happen to change the view of some or many americans. i'm very interested in the statistics that you are read in the article and wisconsin state journal and some of the views that americans have about who aren't muslim americans. and that i think that i just want to thank you again for your

efforts and what you've done for the muslim community. i think more of us need to come together where we are atheist, muslim, hindu, whatever faith. i think we can meet on common goals and try to establish something, work towards goals that we may not believe have come together on foundational beliefs or practices. i think there are thing that is we can come together on. one of those things i read a quote once again words make worlds. one the things i read in usa today article about general petraeus who has not been assigned, he continued to use islamic terrorist. there's no such thing of terrorism in islamic. i thought it was unfortunately that he continues to use that throughout his term. one the things you used the

term, the term that you used was fundamentalism. i think that's a tricky word when it comes to islam or any religion. because someone that might look at me and say, wow, he's strict. i think a radical person like the kkk or al qaeda or some of the forests individuals or group. i don't know what you think of that in terminology and how it affects people and thinking. >> thanks for your compliment. as i mention in the book, i went to college in the early part of the school which is the capital of the largest state in india. it is the microcosm.

and the landlord that did the trick. really he was old fashioned. you have to meet the guy. he was a character. unless you know how the landlords are in india, it would be hard to get an image of him. you talk about technology, there are no fundamentalist. i must admit i might be using the words losely without enough attention. i should be perhaps a bit more careful. >> are you aware there's a group somewhere that i attended a talk in janesville, wisconsin, where

a christian priest and a jewish rabbi each spoke of their religions and invited questions. >> yes, yes, i'm quite aware. in fact, one the people who's -- are speaking in that locally is phil. if i may say so, a friend of mine. he is half time a journalist and half time a pastor. and he's wonderful in all of holding all of these interfaith sort of officialtives and dialogues locally. i'm quite available. in fact, i think he wrote about us recently in his column. yes. i'm sorry. any other questions? thank you all for coming. [applause]

[applause] >> well, there's a new self-published book out on the market. it's written by richard toliver. and we are joined now by richard toliver. mr. tolliver, who is on the cover of the book? >> it's a young richard toliver, an office fighter pilot of a few years ago. it was taken during the time that i was fortunate to be involved and testing the f-15 aircraft. >> when was that? >> 1974 to 1986 to be exact.

>> why did you write a book? >> well, after i had gone through life, retired in the air force, looked back over some 50 years, i realized i'd had some very unique experiences in my life. afternoon i met unique people. all of the experiences and the people made a difference as to who i was at that time. so i decided with the encouragement of my family to write the tour of those people who i called uncaged people, the people that placed in my life all along the way. i must admit, i didn't know who they were and know that was taking place at the time. when you get to be 65 and you have the opportunity to look back, you begin to see these things. i saw there are a number of people that needed to be spoken of that made a difference that

caused me to be who i am today. i wanted to tell that story in the first person. >> who is one of those people? >> probably the first person was a little lady who owned a one room store. she gave me my first job and paid me $3 a week. on the other spectrum was a man by the name of ross perot, he gave me an opportunity to work with him and paid me a few more dollars a week at that point. in between, there were people like jackie robinson, dr. martin luther king jr., and people that i became a part of as second generation and launched out into the air force. there were many people alone the way. during the struggles in my life, there was always somebody there. i identify these people along the way. later the eagles were indeed my

late mother and oldest sister and brother and extra neighbor that gave me work or encouraged me. and then there were other people like like the air force that were officers. >> where did you come up with the term" uncaged -- term "uncaged eagle." >> a pastor told about an eagle trapped. in a way, he was speaking to me. i was an eagle in inside, but trapped by my circumstances. i wanted to get free. i took up then that metaphor became dick tolliver. trapped by circumstances. the circumstances weren't the

burning desire to fly airplanes. i look that as my way of going forward and how i was going to get going. >> what did your parents do? >> at that time, i was in louisiana. to be candid, my father and mother's marriage had failed. six children were left alone in the '40s and '50s. my mother died young trying to raise up. it is not people of means or parents of great stature. but from that experience and from those who were brought along into my life and made it possible for me to go forward. >> now you self-published. why? that was that experience like? >> i had in the air force spent

20 years of being a developer of small business and entrepreneurship. and when i wrote the book and realized that it was going to take an enormous effort to get it published. i set about using my business skills or experience at the time. i said i think i can do this. if i figure out what it is that i need to do. i did, and i was able to establish a publicking team and then put together the book following the examples of the great publishers out there. i wanted to be able to put a book out there that could indeed look like a great publishers had done it and make sure the story was there, possibly processes were there, and i was able to do that. >> forward by ross perot. >> yes. ross perot is a great american that i happen to know.

i was recruited by the ross perot organization back in the '90s when he was putting together united by stand america and later the reform party. when i met ross, we both realized that we shared a common interest in my our, our god, families and so on. we struck up not only a professional relationship, but a personal relationship. so when i got ready to write, i made a visit. i want to talk about ross perot in the book later and i want to talk about him as i know him, not as the people or media. i want to say it ross perot up close and personal. he gave me permission. i told at least a few stories about ross and his great fill f- fill an tropic work.

-- phil where can people go if they are interested in getting this? >> well, i have a web site that's only available for people to get a book. www.uncagedeagle.com or contact the publishing company at the phone number 623-340-5768 or peter contact you and you get the word to me and i'll see they get a book. >> author richard toliver. on c-span2.