added funding, it seems there's outreach to the community. .. my question is as a law enforcement officer as the chief, you would be as concerned about domestic based terrorism meaning a native-born american that might be in an extremist, a white extremist group that would be as challenging as possibly

another type of group, is that correct? the record would show that to my knowledge we have not had a hearing in this committee on those kind of groups and i have evidence that they are as dangerous as any might be. the difficulty with these hearings is it may provide information but it may provoke an necessarily how individual communities that are trying to do their best and as the chairman as my friend i would also like to say this is such a poor time for this hearing. if you want to know about the devastation of a nation, these are the innocent somalis who are fleeing famine that is the worst famine in the history of africa at this point. so i simply raise the question if we are going to be constructive, let us be constructed by riding the right kind of legislation giving it more dollars because he's proven effective and the young people of your community, somalia, have come to hear you talk about another way of life; is that correct? >> that is correct, ma'am, yeah. >> i would be the case of all muslim americans here who would be welcomed --

>> the time of the gentlelady is expired. the gentleman from michigan is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman and i think you for your opening comments especially. in the strength of that and the clarity of what we are working with. this is a very personal issue to me, and i appreciate the witnesses being here today and holding this hearing. and i mentioned earlier on another hearing that had direct contact with two very, very close, very close family friends who experienced the ugonda and kampala bombing. one who miraculously was scared by being in between the bomb and five other bodies or five bodies in between him. and my to close friends spent the remainder of the night the next day identifying bodies. and then ultimately finding out several of my personal friends, some of being muslim, and kampala ugonda were victims there and no longer because of

all chabot. and then hearing subsequent days al-shabaab come out and apologize to the ugonda that they were killed because their purpose was to kill whites in america. so it's a personal issue to me. so i appreciate you being here talking about how we deal with a realistic way what's going on here in the united states and in canada, our neighbor. mr. folk, i would ask you in a speech read you for your service as a marina as well, how do you assess the effectiveness of the fbi and the doj's efforts to support al-shabaab's ongoing recruitment of muslim americans around the united states? >> thank you, congressman. i think we can look at a couple different factors to bite us in that first i believe that the fbi and the doj recognize the threat and move quickly to counter it. i believe that there is certainly an ongoing need to

take care to focus on any groups that are recruiting people to fight on behalf of a terrorist organization and i believe al-shabaab is currently represents an active group in that regard, so i think the efforts need to be ongoing and we are going to need to remain vigilant to ensure that they are not recruiting. and i think that if you want to look at whether or not we have managed to stop this problem we can look at the fact that as of february, 2008 the state department designated al-shabaab a foreign terrorist organization. since that time additional groups of men have left minnesota to join al-shabaab. and so clearly why i think our law enforcement efforts have been effective and continue to be effective and no doubt will be effective in the future, this problem isn't solved by any stretch of the imagination and we need to continue to focus on al-shabaab. >> why in general the perception is out there, why the u.s. intelligence and law enforcement community is, some specifics we

have but in general it consistently downplayed threats posed by other foreign terrorist groups that in the ups tracking our home land such as aqap of yemen and the pakistan a telegram. what was your answer to that? >> congressman, i think that that's an excellent question, and i think that the reality is we don't know what terrorist organizations are able to do looking forward. they are certainly in some regards more aspirational the operational. that is the things they say may not necessarily reflect what they are capable of. the difficulty is we don't know when they are going to cross the line from aspiration to operation. and the reality is, as it was illustrated with what has been commonly termed as the underwear bomber, that cannot be predicted with any degree of certainty and as a result we have to prepare as if the groups that are potentially only aspirational today could be operational tomorrow. >> i guess -- i appreciate the

answer. that adds to my concern about downplaying it. if we are taking it seriously enough. thank you. thank you for being here and working with in your community. and giving a voice to the overwhelming majority i believe of muslims who don't want this violence and terrorism to go on and participate. according to a recent report, some reports to al-shabaab at flatted trips to go and fight with the terror groups order to be cut funded by community groups elders including a mosque in ohio, not far from me. how can the government health community leaders, such as yourself, combat al-shabaab recruiting when the expected elders are encouraging vulnerable and oppress all young men to join the designated terror group? >> the problem is people look at the community or the somalia to manatee they say where do we find the leaders coming and they

zero in on the mosques, but the reality is that there is more to the american somalia community beyond the mosque. we need to target the young professionals, people coming up, people who are dedicated to the values that have made this country great. that's where you target them and those are the people who have the credibility to turn back against the messaging that leads to the radicalization. also believe with all my heart that we should stop assuming that just because canadian american simoleons live physically here that somehow our bellies will percolate into the veins. we have to come to the radicalization by emphasizing the importance and the collection between the islamic values and the canadian and american values. the effect of the matter is you

can be a fully functioning muslim in the united states and canada but in either place in the islamic world because the freedom of worship. it's very difficult for a sunni muslim to be a fully practicing and vice versa. it's extremely difficult for a muslim to live life in sunni saudi arabia because of persecution. so this is a very special place. it's one of the few countries the united states and canada where the muslims can actually be muslims whatever denomination they have come and its values like that and realities like that that we need to emphasize to take away the strength of the radical message outside of that. >> the time is expired. islamic the gentle lady from california mr. richardson. >> thank you mr. chairman. i concur with the objective of the homeland security committee

that we should discuss the potential threat to the homeland posed by the somali terrorist organization al-shabaab. also concur that the alleged recruitment of the american citizens not limited by race or religion by al-shabaab come organizations relationships with al qaeda and those associated with some moly on the potential plotting against the u.s. homeland should be addressed. however i want to make sure that on the record according to the ranking committee staff, to this day this committee has not secured a single federal official or other objectives recognized authority currently to legitimize the discussion on the alleged the limited scope and insinuations that only the activity of muslim americans should be investigated or more into a discussion. the threats and activity of al qaeda and al-shabaab are real and should be investigated by

the committee. clearly it is within our jurisdiction. however, the continued limited scope is insufficient and discriminatory mr. folk, you said that -- first of all let me say thank you for your service to this country. you said that he worked on prosecuting those who did efforts on behalf of al qaeda and al-shabaab, and you're concerned with the effectiveness and the organization which i agree with you. my question is today are you here under the direction of the fbi, the cia, the department of justice or the department of homeland security? >> thank you. the answer is i am not. >> you have the authority by those organizations to submit any of the comments are back up anything of what you have said from the fbi, the cia, the department justice or the department of homeland security? >> no man. >> jeeves left, you talked about the recruitment of the somali american immigrants.

are there other young people that have been recruited by al-shabaab and al qaeda to your knowledge? >> that's probably a question better served for federal authorities. i can tell you from the open source information i know of just one individual who is not of the somalia dissent. >> other than the somalia dissent of that has been recruited? >> yes. >> okay. >> and mr. joscelyn, you talked about in your house was introduced for you that you are a terrorist expert and that you have been following this since 2006. and in the comments he said in the very beginning mostly muslims. would you also agree that are there any other individuals, any other groups that are also being recruited and radicalized by al-shabaab? >> surgeon mechem al-shabaab has been internationally -- >> thank you. i yield back the balance of my

time. >> the gentleman from texas, mr. mccaul. -- before, mr. chairman, and i want to thank you for demonstrating the political courage to hold these hearings. and i must say i am mystified by the controversies that has followed from this. it is said by one of the members that was investigating muslims. nothing could be further from the truth. we are investigating the radicalization of muslim youth in the united states. does anybody on this panel disagree with the notion that the radicalization of muslim used in the united states poses a threat to our homeland security? >> i taken by your silence that you agree with the idea that the radicalization of the muslim youth in the united states poses a direct threat to the security and safety of our homeland security. we know that three dozen americans have left the united states mostly from minnesota to join forces in somalia to

receive training under al-shabaab and by al qaeda and i guess the question is what kind of a threat does that pose to us here in the united states? i want to read to you what was just recently said by mr. olson who is the nominee to lead the national counterterrorism center in the confirmation hearing just on tuesday he said elsa of's bombing last year targeting westerners shows the group is willing and capable of striking out side of somalia and therefore poses a significant threat. so my question to i think mr. folk and mr. joscelyn is how big of a threat is this to the united states? there are those who would say that these individuals are leaving the united states to join the special forces in the civil war, and that that is their main focus, their threat, the focus is not posing a threat to the united states, how would

you respond to that? >> thank you, congressman. as i set forth in my remarks, i believe that the threat that we need to be aware of is the fact that the terrorist training camps run by al-shabaab teach their participants how to kill people, how to utilize weapons, how to build bombs, and military training provides an ideological indoctrination that teaches that it's okay to do that attacks, and if the individual to return to the united states and to put into practice that training as a threat. >> mr. joscelyn? >> welcome you know, it's tough to say how big a threat but i take it seriously. any al qaeda of joliet party shouldn't downplayed. we were talking about the ugonda bombings for example which were a very personal connection. the brigade to carry out the bombings was the bomb was a top

al qaeda operative and a al-shabaab member. he was killed in the air strike of 2009 and was named after him because he was legendary in al-shabaab circles. the recruits from indianapolis who went to somalia were in the department of justice were actually trained. in fact the department of justice just on the 16th i believe came out with a plea deal with the minneapolis recruit and said that they named a senior member of al qaeda in east africa who conducted the training. so you talk about individuals recruited in minneapolis who go to al-shabaab at emmerson malida and receive training from one of the all-time sorted al qaeda operatives in somalia. as a mix of the al qaeda and al-shabaab connection i think in my judgment does pose a threat to our interest here in the united states. obviously aqap ha as a direct interest in attacking the united states, so am i correct that it's that connection that concerns you? >> that's exactly right and my

colleague here mr. folk recently said you don't know when they are going to cross the line from aspirational to actually try to pull something off. umar farouk abdulmutallab, nobody knew according to the senate intelligence report of something like that was going to come along from aqap and attack us and all of a sudden he's on flight to 53 trying to blow it up. >> clearly al-awlaki is becoming the emerging threat on the scene in my judgment. he's radicalizing muslim use over the internet. here in the united states. what easier way to do it if you can't get into the country with travel documents one of radicalize people who are already here? last question. how can we track these individuals we know have left the united states are in somalia now to ensure they don't come back to the united states and commit acts of terrorism? >> that's a difficult question. there's a lot of good work being done on that and you can't say all the individuals that the walls are not being tracked. it's tough to say. it becomes very difficult. the problem is once you leave

the country and go into these the badlands of africa basically where there's all this warfare it's tough to say who could get a false passport or visa or something like that. so many potential possibilities. i wouldn't want to speculate on the fbi, the intelligence community is a good job but you don't know when someone like umar farouk abdulmutallab will come a long. >> if i may, mr. chairman, we should actually utilize the equitable sacrifices being made by the somalia americans. on the other side of the collision, fighting al-shabaab, the somalia prime minister from the chairman's stead of new york if the chief is from ohio and a number of people from california and also the somalia canadians so we live that intelligence to track some of the -- >> excellent point. the most effective weapon is the moderate muslim against the radical civic ask if he wants the opportunity were asked about

the testimony and do you consult with the justice department before the testimony and do they put any restrictions on you? >> thank you mr. chairman. i've not had any restrictions put on me prior to coming here today. >> did you tell the justice department to were going to testify? >> i did. >> okay. i guess the question is do you submit your testimony to them? >> lynndie member, the only entity to which i have submitted my testimony is this committee. >> thank you. >> i wasn't trying to make a point i just want to give him the opportunity with his professional light to make sure he whether or not he spoke in the justice department before he came here. that's all. >> the point was in fact mr. folk would represent himself

and not any other fellow or investigative entity. >> i wasn't trying to counter the point i was just trying to get the opportunity to what he did or didn't do. chongging to protect mr. folk, not ms. richardson. with that ms. richardson we appreciate. >> i'm sure she loves me for that. speaking of people that love me, the gentle lady from new york is recognized, ms. clark. [laughter] >> i do love you, mr. chairman, but i liked to welcome our witnesses and i do want to say for the record my disappointment and the denial of the congressmen's request to address our community, our committee at this hearing as the member of the body that has the largest concentration of the somali americans in the district and has worked very closely with that community. i think we should have afforded him that courtesy and i just want to put that on the record.

let me also say that i have also felt a bit troubled about our focus on muslim americans when it comes to radicalization, certainly there isn't a human being alive on the planet right now that does not recognize what is taking place in terms of the islamic threat from specific groups. but when we get into the sort of generalization, and i can't say it better than ms. richardson did about the fact that radicalization is cross-cultural come across religion come across ethnic for us to focus on very specific communities and not putting the full gamut in perspective i think opens us up to others and that's then perpetuates the notion that we are trying to combat.

so i really want to discourage from stigmatizing and ostracizing the communities. this is a nation of diversity and for generations americans have been part of the fabric of the nation for us to focus and say muslim americans specifically are the threat when i can also talk about a radicalization, domestic terrorism in my community i don't see the same type of resources being put into the communities that are poor where young people are being jumped in, and i think that the lives that have been taken from that type of activity is just as valid, so we need to take a look at our motives here and certainly want to educate the public. they become fixated on a particular group of people we

take our eye off the prize and then we become even more vulnerable because the unexpected happens. the unexpected like and norway. so i just want to say i love you, however, my concern is for our civil society, and how we treat each other and address the fritz as the vulnerability, how we educate and inform one another. it would have been good to have some of our intelligence community is on this panel and giving us the most up-to-date information about the issue that to seek penetration on. i felt that dealing with a number of opinions here, and opinions are not fact based. >> if you would yield for ten seconds. >> as far as the intelligence community we held a series of meetings for the majority and the minorities that lead up to

this and the various intelligence and security officials throughout has made available to the stuff and also as far as whether or not we stigmatize any in the community ever committee hearings of a truly empowered muslims in the community. >> but mr. hussein is entitled to his opinion. she is one man as a massive group of people and is entitled to his opinion. she is from canada and i don't know what his relationship is to the community here in the united states. >> he explained in his opening statement. >> really, did he? i didn't get that. >> to work closely with the muslim american community particularly in minneapolis because of the nexus between toronto and minneapolis. >> with all due respect, that is a relative perspective. >> he's acted in the muslim community. >> welcome a listen. so is mr. ellison and he was denied the ability to succumb and to speak to us.

>> mr. ellison from another committee we gave him the opportunity to testify at the first hearing which dealt with the witnesses from minneapolis we gave mr. ellison the opportunity to testify them and the expansion of that and quite frankly, in view of the strictures of time to focus on this mr. alyssum i consider a good colleague but he had his opportunity and today we will listen to other witnesses. >> mr. chairman, that is all well and good, but my point remains the same. i'm not here to rebuttal anyone. i'm sure -- i'm sure in my opinion as a member of the committee, and my opinion is that we have focused almost as a fixation on this one community, where there are many threats to our civil society that have not been examined at all. i yield back, mr. chairman. >> thank the gentlelady. mr. richmond, i just hope you

don't throw a fastball or a curve ball at us and the reason for that preamble this he was the star pitcher in last week's game and i hit to admit he destroyed the republicans and with that i yield five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and i had a good day. it's very unusual. [laughter] mr. chairman, i want to thank you for the focus on the radicalization and the first hearing and of the things we got a lot of the first hearing, and maybe this is for me as a first member that we are revisiting this issue over and over again. it reminds me of my first visit to the zoo when i saw a one trick pony, but i would say that out of the testimony, and we heard from the first the extent of radicalization and the muslim american community and the response we heard from mr. blood so, mr. bachus, mr. -- the next

hearing the threat of the muslim radicalization in the u.s. presence weird from kevin smith, patrick dunn and michael downing. today we have another panel, remarkable people with good insight, and i just want to pull from what we learned in those hearings to see if i am missing something and the members that have testified you can jump in. the community and outreach and engagement is important in breaking this cycle and we have to break some of the cultural norms. we need to partner and keep american integration and develop an attachment to the community. me to make sure we focus on the u.s. targeted for the radicalization and that all views are targeted for the radicalization. in fact i will go back to the

testimony who testified that our outreach efforts after two years have won the hearts and minds of the somalia american community to commit to stopping the radicalization efforts of the few extremists and radicals in the community, and the testimony is all these agencies recognize that you cannot rest or in force your way out of the radicalization issue. the outreach to the community members and the building of relationships will lead to a trusted network for the sharing of information and context. those that summarize our efforts of what we should be doing to combat radicalization in all of our communities, no matter what religious faith, and no matter what part of the country or the world war ethnicity you are. does that sum it up?

>> i will take the silence as a fact that we have had an exhaustive answers to all of these questions, and i think that there is a comprehensive answer to what we are doing. so in the hopes of moving on and working on this issue, i hope that the answer is suffice it so that we don't have radicalization hearings about radicalization in schools, radicalization and the mosques and churches, radicalization and grocery stores, radicalization had been go. i would hope that we can focus on the commitment and their resources that we can give to the law enforcement officers and to those who can truly work on community outreach and make sure that we are making sure that all u.s. citizens are being integrated into those principles that make america great and that

also the responsibility they have to make sure their children are safe and that we create the environment we want. so mr. sherman, finch you for the hearing. i get it. i get it. and i hope that everyone else gets it also. estimate of the gentleman would yield. >> of the understand where you are coming from and your contribution to the committee. the reason i've gone forward with these hearings is there are many different dimensions to the radicalization and for instance we start off many people in the government and in this committee and in the media denied there was a threat within the muslim american community, denying the fact there were any mosques or the moms who were not collaborating are coming forward. for mr. hussein as a result of the hearings more people are coming forward to exchange the narrative in canada. we have seen by the intelligence officials in the recent months of the concern of the of shown between al-shabaab and the linking of so there is a change

in the dimension of the issue and talking about the bingo games and grocery stores the fact is people in the go games and grocery stores hasn't killed 3,000 americans and that is the difference. i would hope we can see there is no equivalency right now between the various organizations that your site has been talking about, which never investigated for four years i've become an enemy which is an international component which is to destroy us and was the political correct reasons people in the media and the government hour afraid to confront. mr. schmidt is doing an amazing job and that is an important part of it but also an important part is what mr. hussein was talking about and that is how people in the community step forward and speak out and change the narrative and that is why of the hearings are doing and if not i will be judged on that but i believe i have an obligation to pursue it. i know your time is expired but if you would blank i just think it's abundantly clear now that radicalization is a problem that all of the u.s. targets whether they are muslim or african-american or whether they

are white. there's someone targeting of our kids from all of our children and i think that all of the answers are consistent ridges community outreach engagement and all of those things which are required funding are making sure our law enforcement offices and the community leaders have the ability to do that, which takes funds. so at some point we know what the problem is and all of the use hour of risk and we know that the community engagement and all of those things are very valuable answers. so, i would like to get to the point we start talking about the funding of those answers and how effective they are and figuring out the best way to make sure we protect our kids and protect our seniors so that we don't have those terrorist attacks. the purpose of my comment was to say point made i'm not the

german and i respect that but in my sense of what makes sense to start focusing on the answer. there's one group that's killed 3,000 americans and that is why the group al qaeda is targeting hastert targeting other groups. that's all i'm saying. that's what he was talking about to get you funding what kind of narrative do we use and i would yield to the gentleman mr. duncan who's waited patiently. >> these committee hearings allow a great exchange of ideas and i appreciate the gentleman from louisiana's comments, but i was sitting here thinking that in july for the end and my church saying patriotic hymns of america we talk about american greatness and the freedom of religion and the separation of that and government and our founding fathers, the creation of this land, and that is what i would hope, a sister richmond, that of the mosques would begin

to talk about is the freedom of religion that they got to worship in america in a mosque where it was found on christian principles and the islamic religion can practice in this country freely. and so i want to encourage the mosque and the communities to talk about american greatness and the religious freedom that we got and the first amendment and the constitution and supporting law enforcement that's out there supporting our liberties, supporting the military that's fighting for the liberties even in that part of the world where there is a dominant islam religion. but as i sit through these hearings there's a line of questions you to ask the panelists but then you hear a lot of the questions and comments about other committee members, so let me just reference an article that i read from al jazeera, july 22nd. two weeks after al-shabaab said a ban on the certain groups

working in somalia where they lifted the islamist group has announced the ban remains in place. this is a quote from al-shabaab which controls part of the effective region by the draw on the famine. there's earlier groups are not welcome to serve the area of control. the spokesman shakily mod of rosh said in a broadcast on the islamist retial on friday there is a drought in somalia but of famine. what is declared as 100% false. this is al-shabaab, the growth that we are talking about in a day refuting the claims by members of this committee that the aid isn't getting there and that there is no famine. there is a drought but there is no famine. i just want to bring that out that they are denying some of the claims that are even being made here today. i am concerned about all chabad's connection with al qaeda. there's numerous articles in september 2008 the pledge of

allegiance to osama bin laden from february 2010 the officially announced the alliance with al qaeda and jihadists to the one led by al qaeda and osama bin laden today we have strong evidence of the longstanding collaboration between al qaeda and the iranian regime using the quds force. with the recent events and al-shabaab's announcement of the establishment of all quds brigade with attacking israel and fleeing the islamic places have you and i will ask mr. folk have you seen evidence of iran supporting al-shabaab? >> no, if not, congressman. >> is it possible al-shabaab receives financing through donations were training from the a iranian quds force that the regime supports al qaeda? >> congressman, if you are directing it at me i apologize i can't answer that. i don't know one way or the other. >> if i may, chairman, the

iranians are in the recent years been our main al-shabaab and the law to harm the u.s. ally and the transitional government of somalia so the weapons goes through every and there is a collection between every turn and al-shabaab and piracy and all that stuff. >> than the extended their reach beyond the home country, and i apologize i wasn't there for the whole meeting. how much strength to the having going beyond africa, do you believe, mr. hussen, in terrorist acts? >> welcome a first of all, i agree to keep talking about the connection between al-shabaab and al qaeda, and the integrated. the top leadership, the decision makers in the top military commanders of al-shabaab are

also people who have been trained in al qaeda camps. secondly, there is no shortage of foot soldiers so why did they spend all this money come effort and great risk to recruit westerners, people who hold the canadian, u.s. and british passports is because we think that they have aspirations beyond east africa. they've proven that by attacking ugonda. they've also made an attempt attacking the world cup in south africa but they were not successful. so they have global ambitions, collections with al qaeda and also aqap, and with the recruiting of westerners, they have the means to get recruits on the border controls. >> the time of the gentleman is expired and the ranking member has -- >> thank you very much mr. chairman. mr. hussen, you answered the gentleman's question about iran's involvement.

you are not speaking on behalf of the canadian government. >> not. >> you are not speaking on behalf any intelligence agency? >> no, i'm not. >> thank you. >> the gentleman from illinois, mr. davis, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for a much, mr. chairman. you know, as i listened to the exchange, i was just thinking of my experience with people that i know from somalia. as a matter of fact, i have a group of friends who we have interacted with now for an about 15, 20 years, and i know that they have got pretty strong feelings about politics, about government, about the history, about their existence, about their country, how they were

raised, issues of poverty and instability, issues of not having certain kinds of resources available to them. but i don't know that i've detected any particular feelings of animosity towards say this country or other countries, but they have all expressed and to express on a rather consistent basis serious intensity about the shape of the world and a government. you can get a great discussion going at any time. i grew up with the idea that an

ounce of prevention is worth far more than a pound of cure, and i guess i was struck by religious differences and i just happened to be reading the bible the letter a, and i read a comment that said if you would put an end to oppression to every gesture of contempt that you would be known as the people who rebuilt the walz, building on the old foundations, and i guess my one question would be, if each one of you could just give a brief response, how do we incorporate into the thinking of individuals enough confidence so

that if somebody is selling something that i'm not buying they can sell let him, but i'm not buying it? you can sit on the corner and holler but i don't have a need for it you would just be broken the end of today. how do we overcome some of the feelings i guess that may have been developed down through the years and really are not necessarily new but historically have existed and with individuals who may have come from or whose parents may have lived in somalia and the are individuals with that heritage? >> the biggest is justice and to emphasize to these young people that of the biggest attempt of

justice can only come from a society that guarantees religious freedom and human wall to the best of its ability. and if you do that, you undercut the messaging that says to a young person in canada were the united states that the society's will never accept you. we know that is not true. but you have to come at it from an islamic perspective that says it is very important and attempt to live by the rule of law. thank you. >> thank you, congressman. that's an excellent question. i would point you out to two specific examples i think answer your question and a more general seem specifically the fbi and the u.s. attorney's office in minneapolis since the investigation started have made a concerted push to this a malida community and to really find out at a street level what's going on, and that is an absolutely essential component

of any prosecution strategy because you cannot prosecute your way out of a problem, and i think that the minneapolis u.s. attorney's office and fbi have realized that and are complementing the hard edges criminal justice with a soft side of outreach. if we have ever sent a message by were prosecution or why our investigation people are being prosecuted because of the gods they worship or the language they speak what we failed and i think outreach has to temper a prosecution to ensure we don't send that message. >> thank you. >> congressman, one thing quick. i have a question similar in mind to what you just asked when i read the second point in my testimony because my testimony is that the somali americans and the muslims and somalia are the biggest victims of al-shabaab. more victims are killed than anybody. that's the target and killed. in other words, the enemies of the community over all, the enemies of the somalia for the common enemy. al-shabaab doesn't represent all of them by a long shot. and when you look for the common

bond that is in my mind when we talk about threats or security that is where it starts is your enemies are. >> times -- unsury. just briefly i was going to say, congressman, the answer is dialogue, continued dialogue with their it is within our community, our state, the eldora council working with the youth and listening. i think that is the key because that's what we hear. you don't have to sell or you don't want to buy something. you need to listen first, and one quick example the united states attorney that mr. folk used to work with under his own volition and he's part of our program as well, but every week and he has a you scrap coming and teaches about civil rights, about the united states, they have the opportunity to come, the volunteer to come, and it's very powerful. and i think that its efforts such as listening and education that pave the way to our

success. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> now the moment we are all waiting for thank you, mr. chairman. i'd like to join the course the president's indicated a deep affection for you. i love you too mr. chairman. if i may i think this is a preeminent opportunity to make it abundantly clear that this hearing is not to condemn all muslims. is that a fair statement, chief? >> yes, that's a fair statement. >> and we would not want persons who are hearing what we're saying and witnessing what we are doing to conclude that we think all persons who are somali are radicals and people to be

watched and people who are to be monitored; is that a fair statement, mr. joscelyn? can get is a very fair statement. >> and you didn't come here to demean muslims, did you? anybody come to the muslims? >> no. >> the truth be told, radicals and people that want to hurt us come in all forms and shapes and ethnicities, is that a fair statement? mr. folk, have you ever heard of a person called jihadists jane? how tall was she? >> i couldn't tell you. >> was shia under 7 feet? of course she was. [laughter] what color was her hair? you don't know?

somebody knows. mr. johnson? >> light brown or blonde. from my memory. >> these are the kind of things you might want to take note of. what color -- she did have always we all agree. what color were her eyes? don't remember? okay. maybe you will remember this. what was her complexion? not everybody at once, please. >> she was caucasian, right? >> yes, and european ancestry. is that a fair statement? is their consternation with saying this, does this take you out of your comfort zone to say that jihad jane was not at all? does everybody agree that jihadists jane is what we would

call in this country a white person? would you kindly raise your hand? >> of the gentleman would yield for a second? >> i would but if you would extend my time -- began as a guest of the committee i will take into consideration. you are leaving a series of questions that have no basis at all and anyone who's ever sit in this committee. no one said anything of a person's ancestry or their race. what we are seeing is al qaeda by its own statement is attempting to radicalized people of muslim faith whether they are black, white, brown, tan, yellow, no matter what they might become a male or female, 7 feet tall, blue eyes or whatever complexion they have. so in the interest in line of questions it makes no sense and isn't based on anything as said by any member of the committee on any side. >> if i may reclaim my time. mr. chairman, to be quite candid i didn't expect this to make sense to you. i did not.

if i may continue, mr. chairman -- it is my time. sycophant you are a guest of the committee -- >> the rules that apply to everyone will supply to the guests, mr. chairman. i'm being candid with you because you decided to bring this to my attention i'm going along with my line of questioning and i have a reason for doing this and it's because i agree with you, believe it or not. i have said i don't think that we want all muslims to be painted with the same brush, and i have said in the line of questioning that we should also let the world know that we believe that muslims are law abiding people, they shouldn't be monitored, there's nothing wrong with this, mr. chairman that isn't an unreasonable line of questioning. is it causes you some degree of discomfort for me to make it clear that there are some people who are intent on harming us who

are persons that don't look like what we typically call terrorists, then i have to respectfully ask that you would allow me to continue my questioning. >> you have 20 seconds. >> all right. thank you. so you would all agree that there are people who are of european ancestry who want to harm us and the purpose of this, your being here today, is not to condemn all muslims, is that a fair statement? if you agree with you just raise your hand? all right. i want to thank all of you for coming. i think that you have been here and you have done a noble service. that is also just important for us to let the world know that we are not here condemning all muslims. estimate the time of the gentleman has expired. now let me just the ranking member can certainly respond. the reason i entered up to the line of questioning is because we have heard from so many people about what message are we sending to the world. if we have a member or guest of the committee, in and somehow in

play this committee or anyone on this committee has ever suggested that a person's color, persons origin has anything to do with turner for some that is a wrong message to send. it's no profound finding to say that a person can be an al qaeda terrorist with blue eyes to new estimates with the german extend the same courtesy i extended to the chair? >> since we extended the courtesy to you to be a guest -- the time is expired. no i will not come live extended enough courtesy. >> thank you. >> the point i would want to make is if we make the world realize what we are trying to win this committee and what i believe on both sides of the aisle and out site which are to conduct intelligence hearings, try to see the extent of radicalization and the muslim american community, the deputy national security adviser and the white house went to a mosque in march of this year and one of the severe threats facing the country is al qaeda attempt to radicalize the muslim american community to males, females, white skin, brown skin, that

wasn't the issue, and anyone listening to your questioning overseas whether watching al jazeera or whatever they are watching the but somehow think there are people in this committee in this congress on the side of the all who somehow suggest terrorism was linked to a person's race or gender or height and that's why i want to make it clear that those of you a better listening from overseas would realize that the gentleman's line of questioning had no basis and no foundation at all on anything that's ever been testified to by any witness before the committee or any member of the committee certainly from this side of the violin is the ranking member wishes to comment. >> yes. thank you, mr. green for your participation. we have testimony in the record that the radicalization has occurred in prisons, that skinheads are the most dangerous group of people in prison,

domestic terrorists, gang members, have offered a severe threat to this country, and i think a point that a lot of members on this side have made is that there are a lot of bad people in this country. some are about this, some are atheist, and i think the effort was to broaden and will get a lot of bad people but i would like to close by saying to all the witnesses think you for your testimony. chief smith, you gave us a vacation to come in here this. i want to personally thank you. your law enforcement experience had a significant credibility to this hearing, and i think it's what we need as a committee to

move forward and coming up with good public policy. the other witness of your testimony was just as good and collectively we were fashioned as a committee addressing many of those things. unfortunately, a lot of the resources would be necessary to address the issues outlined are being cut, and so i think the state and local entities are going to be hard pressed given this situation to continue at the same level. however i am confident that even with the cuts, those of you who do it every day would do a good job and for that i think you. >> i thank the chairman and the ranking member and hopefully it stays former.

i want to thank the ranking member for his statement and contributions and end on a bipartisan note as we go through the authorization process you may find more common ground than you might expect as far as funding. i look forward to working with you on that. as far as the other issue i would go back to the fact that with all of the various steps in the country there is one threat that's killed 3,000 americans and that's why and focusing on that and i want to thank all the witnesses. they did a great job. deutsch a day of vacation and thank you and my father was in law enforcement for years and i have some idea of the work that you try to do and do and do it chief under very stressful circumstances. thank you for your service and the witnesses and let me say the members of the committee may have additional questions. we will ask you to respond to those in writing in ten days. we will send them on to you and if we get additional questions the hearing record will be kept open for ten days and without objection the committee stands

adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> [inaudible conversations]