had they delivered on providing fad housing that they stated that may be of little different but at least according to the residence those options were not there. that is where the frustration began to unfold. . .

>> he was giving slide show presentations 20 rotary groups, awana clubs, historic frankfort and on the road giving a drum beat of, you know, people knew this as the bad part of town, but it was the good part of town, and this is why. in some ways swinging too far in the other direction sometimes saying they never lock the doors, and i don't know what these people are talking about. what happens is that's when i became very interested and seeing the two sides of history being batted about and curious as to not just the story of the neighborhood, but looking at how the process of creating history happens, and that's when i gravitated towards the

collection and thought, well, you know, this is 5 story that needs to be told. >> we continue with more from frankfort, kentucky. up next, booktv interviews lindsay apple exploring the life and legacy of the former speaker of state and house of representatives, henry clay. >> henry clay was an early 19th century politician statesman. he ran for president three times, tried to get the nomination of two others, failed on all occasions, 3wu it's probably the -- but is probably the best not known president of that period. >> why is that? >> well, daniel walker howell

argues that clay had the most expansive of vision for the country speaking of the american system which was an attempt to unify the country. we were a big country. in fact, most people thought we could not exist as a democracy as large as we were, but he believed through transportation, through commerce, that we could tie the country together. howell says that he was a better visionary than he was a politician. he could not get other people to go with him, but if he could have stood out here on the front step and looked out to the west where interstate 75 and interstate 64 come together, he would have said, by god, i told you so because that was exactly what he had in mind, connect the country, and it would stay

together, and that's a vision, i think, that is important. it is what we have become. secondary to that, and i don't think it was his intent that the american system while it was not introduced nationally, it was -- proportions of it were introduced in the northern states, and so the northern states became sue peoria to the southern -- sue peer roar to the southern states in manufacturing, and that was a critical issue after the civil war broke out after clay's death. he held the country together beyond his own lifetime, i think. >> why was he never able to get legislated? if he was so prominent, why wouldn't people follow him? >> that's the question historians have asked for a long time, and i don't think there's one good answer. he was a wig. as a young man, he had been quite the rascal. he was known as a -- john

quinncy adams called him a gamer. he was a womanizer, flirted with women, enjoyed women, and drank significantly. the democrats never let him forget that, and they never let the country forget it. he got those things under control as he aged, but the democrats were not going to let him out from under that reputation. the other thing i think you have to look at is look at the country itself of the -- itself. it was not just clay who didn't become president, all three men were giants in their period, but the nation rejected them and took people with names like phil moore and tyler and names that were not as prominent in the period. it was like the country didn't want strong leadership in that

era. andrew jackson being the exception to that. >> and your book is about henry clay's family. what role did they play in his political life? >> well, one of the reasons i became interested in the study was because historians imply, sometimes state openly, that his family was a burden to him, that they restricted his ability to become president, and i did a biography of a great granddaughter who was a poet, and in the process of that, i began to see a different picture. clay worked as hard at providing for his family and setting his sons up in business as he worked at holding the union together, and simultaneously. a lot of people suggest, for

example, that his wife was a burden, that she did not like washington. glenn says washington was not a very popular place for the family because of her. well, what i discovered was she went to washington with him regularly until 1835. by 1835, she buried all six of her daughters, had about six or seven grandchildren she was raising here at ashlyn, and, you know, she just did not have the time to go to washington. she had other responsibilities. when she was in washington, she basically supported his career, and she was hardly the recluse historians painted her as being. the sons had their problems. there is a strain of mood

disorder that is evident in the early generations of the family. all five of his sons suffered from melancholy or depression. melancholy was the 19th century term, but they also all became with one exception, they all became successful businessmen. one served in the house of representatives. one served in the state legislature, one -- two of them were tremendous horsemen. they contributed significantly to the horse industry in kentucky, so they were more than historians have described them as, and i began to see this and thought the story needed to be told. >> what exactly were they doing that people thought they were a burden? just because she doesn't like washington? >> well, she was rather plain

looking, and somewhat dour looking. there's a type of the two of them, and i say it's the clay version of grant woods painting american gothic because they both look so dour, but by that time, he's suffering from tuberculosis. she's had 11 children in 21 years, raised them, raised her grandchildren, you know, they had experienced some difficult times, tragedy is a key ingredient of this family. it -- they have suffered beyond any measure. how clay kept going, i can't comprehend. i don't think i could withstand the tragedy that affected him with his children and grandchildren, but you know, i think it was appearances.

i think the stories began to be told, and it's like, you know, once a story is told, it never goes away. it just keeps getting bigger and bigger, but the sons took a long time to find their way. they were very slow to find their way. one of them ended up in the lexington lunatic asylum which, of course, fed the rumors about others, so i think it's just the circumstances of the family that caused that belief to build. >> so before all of the traj sigh, what -- tragedy, what kind of life did they lead here at ashlyn? >> i think it's a fairly normal life for the upper class of the society. clay loved having his children around him.

one son he built a home just to the east of here. in fact, it was on the edge of the property. they would come up and have dinner once a week with the family. the younger sons, another -- a daughter bought a home a the southwest of here. the sons would ride over to see here, and she became as much a surrogate mother, lacresha had the other children to take care of, so anne was the big sister to her brothers. they had slaves at that point in time who cared for the children, made sure they didn't get into trouble. they were pretty free to ride and romp and play as they would, and you could imagine in this house it's a large home, but for five or six, seven children at any one time, it gets small very

quickly. they were out and about and doing things. >> when did the tragedy begin and go downhill? >> within a year of their marriage. their first daughter died in childbirth, and then it was just a succession. they buried all six of their daughters. only two made it to an age to marry, married very young, and then, of course, the scourge of women in the 19th century, childbirth killed both of them. they died very shortly after having children. 1823, i think, they lost two daughters. i have to check my dates here, but at least two daughters 234 that year. they lost two daughters as a result of the horrendous trip to washington. one dieded in lebanon, ohio, and one died shortly after they arrived in washington.

theodore, the oldest son, was in the mental asylum, and the treatment of the day was actually worse than the illness,ic. if they left him alone, he might have come out of it, but the treatment essentially damned him to live the rest of his life in that facility. the youngest son suffered mental disorder and had to go there, but it was 15 years later, so it was late enough that the cure did not make it worse. it actually helped him, and he lived a productive life after. henry worried about him all the time. he would write letters from washington begging for information about john. another son had a real problem with alcoholism. eventually straightened it out with the help of a good wife.

what the clay sons did very well was to marry good women, and with no help from henry, actually, but the three of them married really strong women who helped them to establish stability in their lives. >> if clay had become president of the united states, what effect do you think that would have had on his family? >> they would have, i think they would have lived with it. i think lacresha would have gone back to washington. she knew what was needed. she had shared duties with john quinncy adam's wife when he was secretary of state, so she was not beyond the ability to do it. the sons, i don't know what might have happened.