a whole list of other books sitting out there getting ready to crack a whole. actually, hopefully, in august and up to read a few books. there is a book i read years ago called 100 years of solitude. i just kind of think that vacation in august, that book on the history of the ottoman empire. so those are not yet being read, but i would like to get to them. >> tell us what you're reading. send a set to reach as book tv. >> professor adam green, your book "selling the race: culture, community, and black chicago." why 1940-1955 only.

>> love, one of the things that people have really begun to do in terms of thinking, not only about african-american history, but african american history and its establishment in this sense a change in relationship to the situation and circumstance of black folks, many people have really tried to move the way that we think about the history back from the classic years of the civil rights era. , changed and the johns, a different sense of community, different sets of the potential people going back in many cases decades, sometimes for the 30's to majorities, for example some years before i did my work. we tried to imagine the ways in which cultural initiative and genius was something that had really changed the fortunes of black people in new york. at that 1940 was interesting to

look at. the federal government, the state is beginning to approach african americans in a different way. also, the way in which the markets consumer society was beginning to paint more attention to how african-americans, not only were agents or against individuals to be appealed to, but innocents potentially a source of profit, revenue, various kinds of capacities for market expansion, commodities, cultural works in the like. and then, i think, finally african americans themselves largely as a result of the renewal of migration, mass migration making city's larger enclaves, larger communities capable of greater leverage meant that after 1941 was beginning to see a different kind of assertion, a different kind of claim that african americans collectively were seeking to examine -- advance in

relation to institutions that they have relationships with in the country. so in that sense 1940 is an interesting cut off point in terms of thinking about an earlier sense of existence that, while dynamic, while open in terms of possibilities, necessarily fully consummated and realized in terms of being able to leverage the capacity of people to a certain agenda. after 1940 you begin to see much more of that. >> what is the importance of chicago in black history? >> two things. as i was saying a moment ago, chicago is in many ways one of three or four key centers in relation to black migration. so the transformation that is not only coming from african-americans moving from the south to the north, but african americans anymore existential since moving from an agrarian to an urban environment is something that one sees playing out in chicago and a particularly exemplary way.

second, chicago in many ways is really the center of what could be thought of as black cultural media. my book is really trying to think about the ways in which the emergence, not only of individual african american artists, not only individual episodes or instances of black creativity, but what could be called a media infrastructure, almost a culture industry. the chicago more so that los angeles, more so than new york city, the center of that sort of activity in the middle part of the century. so in that sense it is almost as if one could think about and amplifying the effect that chicago is able to provide to black perspective, black aspiration, black identity. in that way what is going on in chicago weather released the music, newspapers, magazines, trying to influence advertisements and the kind of integration of african americans into the consumer market system,

chicago really is the point in the middle part of the 20th century, and that is what i based my argument on understanding chicago as pivotal in relation to what is happening in terms of african americans collectively. >> some examples of chicago music, chicago media. >> sure. chicago, of course, is the center of genres in terms of music that many people see as foundational to the turn toward modern popular music, but signified by rock-and-roll, rhythm-and-blues and so and music and gospel for instance. it is a musical form that is really taking root in chicago. again, being institutionalized by virtue of the emergence of national administrative bodies, by virtue of the establishment of producers and songwriters who are really thinking about how to move gospel from the handle to something that is going to appeal to a broader audience and

indeed a crossover audience like black to white and also to some degree secular from sacred. blues similarly is undergoing a transformation in terms of its modernization. record companies are merging in chicago and elsewhere to be sure, but the central companies like chess records, for instance, are centered here in chicago. as well radio and the capacity of radio to establish playlists, to create deejays who are going to be able to be known primarily as pastors of the style of music. this means that blues, not only is going to be disseminated broadly within chicago, but by virtue of word of mouth and in some cases relate is actually going to be something that people recognize as a distinctive style moving out to areas outside of chicago and even down the railroad line to southern centers. and when one thinks just about these too generous, does the

music on the one hand and the blues music during the late '40's and into the fifties, one can see the way that that synthesis of gospel includes to form sought by many people to be antithetic go, eventually going to give rise to risen -- rhythm-and-blues and soul. >> the importance of ebony magazine. >> ebony -- ebony magazine is in many ways the first movement on the part of african-americans in journalism publishing to come up, in essence, with a successful life style formula for media. and several components to this. one is editorial. ebony was very interested in trying to find ways to encourage african american leaders to think about individuals coming out of their community as being able to convey stories, narrative's, trajectories, art, unquestioned success.

and so you would have, whether it was of major movie actor, a musician, an important on to power. increasingly organizational and political leaders, civic celebrities, and a sense. there would be brought out, not always thought about are covered in terms of work, but also their family life. what are there tastes in relation to clothing or food or fine wine and spirits in such. for some people this was a disregard of the realities of life for most african-americans because it was a sort of decided the usual approach for a bushel of you on how to think about african-americans. but conveying a sense that blacks could identify with aspirational narrative's. what are stories of black people who aspire to a higher station that historically have been available to them. what are ways in which their success can be understood as a potential road to success for

other individuals. second, because ebony was a picture magazine as well as a text magazine and, indeed, i think the great accomplishment during the 1940's and 50's was to assemble such an extraordinary group of photographers who each brought their own modernist style to how they were portraying the individuals that were being covered, that meant that there was a visual appeal to the stories of represented in the magazine and, indeed, a visual appeal, an aura or charisma, if you will come to the ways in which those individuals corresponded to others. third, the fact that she was a magazine that it sought to revolutionize the ways in which consumer marketers thought about african american consumers meant that in addition to the stories coming in addition to the photographs you have all of these different examples of advertisements, chesterfield cigarettes, seagram's whiskey, eventually cadillac automobiles, all of which are using african

americans as possible states consumers for those products. and we are so used to thinking about african-americans as inserted within the language of advertising, to see that as inconsequential or beside the point, but never before have there been a publication that had its successfully been able to get national marketers to see african americans as agents of conception. let me give one example. chesterfield cigarettes, prior to the advent of ebony magazine if you saw an african-american in an advertisement, a black monthly that would present an african american in relation to the product, it would usually be a buffer company and glass of seagram's whiskey to a wife who was supposed to the consuming and buying that. the message, of course, was that african-americans were fit to be the conduit to these commodities to come to the market, but never the end point in terms of where

the address and deal needed to get to. there is a great deal of lobbying, a great deal of surveying, consumer markets, a great deal of making the black consumer market legend, you would see people like joe louis, maxine coal a host of others who would be presented as the exemplar of the black customer to him the company needed to appeal beyond loss and the capacity. this is a softer form of desegregation, but one that is no less significant given that this is a country that has been billed as much of the capacity to generate consumer markets as the capacity to enjoy life. >> is that where the title comes from? >> yes. and in that title i do want to convey that we have to understand the inherent contradiction behind this because we don't want to simply

see this as a to the logical story about how everything became better for african-americans. being integrated as it were into the world of the consumer market meant, for instance, that much of the vitality, much of the idiosyncrasy, much of the eclecticism of african identity began to be pushed down and soft and out and homogenized so that when someone like nat king cole, joe louis, lena horne, presented with one authoritative version about how to be a successful african-american rather than all of the successful somewhat fascinating stories of how people had made their ways in earlier decades. another important contradiction is, of course, that the history of african-americans going back to the founding of the country is one in which their relationship to the market is not only as individuals who are

presented from being ill to consume, but as entities who are being consumed. after all, african americans come to this country largely for slavery. much of what one sees during the 1940's. ebony and the american negro exposition, which i write about in my first chapter. some of the different initiatives to attempt to bring african americans in greater alignment with the market is a puzzling over how to make this term incredible in the face of a much longer history in which black folks were faced with the heritage of their enslavement within the united states. i think to some degree today telling well past the span of this book and thinking about what kind of lessons it brings up in the present-day, the fact that we still see many african-americans are economically dispossessed and put in situations where they really do not have the capacity to exercise initiatives,

transform lives. incarcerated, and places in which jobs are very difficult to come by. places in which the wage scale or cost make it difficult for one to realize the kind of viable economic condition, these, in a sense, remind us that coming into the market is not a surly a whole the empower in turn for individuals. the same time that we celebrate and learn from those individuated stories. we also have to think about the ways in which the stories distract us from other realities and distract us from the heritage that i was speaking about before. the market was not always african americans friend. >> you mentioned the american negro exposition. >> it was interesting. a world's fair that was put on specifically by african-americans, meant to commemorate the 705th anniversary, not thinking about the ways in which the story of slavery connects with the slavery of modern black life, meant to celebrate the 75th

anniversary of the emancipation in 1865. and in that sense the exposition was both an attempt to think about all of the different ways which progress could be bought, whether in agriculture, industry, the ways in which black enclaves and cities like memphis, los angeles, detroit and chicago were putting together their own sorts of exhibitions and kiosks that conveyed a sense of how people and events, particularly important was the story of african-american artists, visual artists put together this tremendous bigger than anything that had been seen before in relation to african-american art exhibit some 200 different black artists and the firm works. at the same time -- and the right about this toward the end of the chapter of the exposition in my book, one of the things that the exposition could not really address because in a certain sense it was going to jam the message of this idea of black progress, was what sense

to make of the fact that the 75th anniversary of slavery was something that made clear that one had to reckon with that history of slavery in order to understand the condition of the present that people found themselves in. so you would have some instances of dioramas by the chemist sociologists t. franklin frazier that would convey the life of the black family during slavery in the black family during the latter part of the 19th century in the black family post migration. individuals might help the right, the assistant or associate curator -- actually the head curator of the schaumburg library in new york city who, among other books that he exhibited at his table, conveyed some of the slave narratives written by fugitive slaves, runaway slaves, individually abolitionist during the time prior to the end of slavery. what you did not see was a real historical wrestling with and engagement with what the heritage of slavery meant to

african americans today. this was going to come later in relation to black communities in new york and also chicago in the form of the kind of black power approach to knowledge, the sergeant fields of black studies, the form of revisionist approach is slavery, but in 1940 it was, in a sense, a kind of history. one learns, as one often does from history, seeing what it is that people don't say that reveals something about who they are as much as what it is that they do say. >> adam green, who is on the cover of your book, "selling the race"? >> the disk jockey. this is actually a picture that wayne miller, the photographer who supplied the very graciously with the photographs that i used to my book and would be remiss in speaking about this book without thanking him for being so generous in terms of providing these photographs, wonderful photographer who incidently worked as a

freelancer. any event, sitting in his office receiving a pitch from somebody who is representing an anonymous woman, actress, or singer, likely singer. in the background there are other pictures of women who have been contracted to appear at clubs or, to radio shows. the point of the fun of in many ways is to encourage us to think about the fact that cultural initiative, cultural accomplishment, cultural product is something that emerges out of a process. it is not just simply a statement that comes out of the artist's mind and the artists now for off of the artist's hand. there needs to be a series of different mediating points. in some cases a disseminating mechanism or disseminating institution like a radio station. in some cases the capacity to convene and organize the market such as the sorts of terms that took place in advertising.

in this case a publicity agent, middle person, who finds a way by looking at that individual who is being presented as a potential candidate to go on to greater publicity, fame and the claim, to let that person and say, well, how is that person going to translate? the steps that need to be made an order to package that purses' appeal and a different way. again, something that is completely and a witness in the world we live in today with publicist's all over the for all kinds of people. at this point this was novel in the case of african-american life. and to think about the fact that in 1940-1950 when is looking at a turn in black life where people are beginning to really understand that there it needs to be these different institutional mediators in order to create the capacity to broadcast african american identity and african american appeal out to a wide audience,

ultimately a national audience. that is something that in many ways is at the heart of the chicago story in the 1940's and 50's. i begin with this story in a sense. and the book with a story about martin luther king. the fact that we all understand our live the king is an iconic figure of the last half of the 20th-century. many people understand this to be the result of the ways in which white and white liberals and mainstream embraced him. we don't, perhaps, no, that many years before king was actually brought up to that level of providence, being presented as an iconic and exemplary african american celebrity figured directly in the wake of the boycott. the ability to make people appear larger than life, the impact for good and sometimes for help at a hen on african

american individually and collectively is something that comes out of the black community even more so than it comes out of the broader mainstream community. >> professor, what courses do you teach at the university of chicago? >> african-american history class in chicago which draws in part of this research as well as looking at a great deal of wonderful scholarships that is being done in the time before i'm writing about and after i'm writing about. that goes from 189,310th 2007-8. i generally ended with the election a barack obama. i also teach a class on great documents are great texts in american history during the 19th century called american civilization. that has to do with the 19th century bring all the way from dreiser and finland and william grant sumner and others. i do graduate class is that relate mainly to 20th-century history, often in urban focus

and contest. this year i am preparing to put together a class on approaching american popular culture from the standpoint of its industrial structure. how markets began to emerge in relation to the emirate -- music industry from the copyright act of 1909 to the re-emergence of platforms of disseminating music in the 70's and 80's. the movie industry moving from consolidation within the studio system to its disintegration and reconditioning around different finance structures and so on and so forth. it is really a wonderful, wonderful opportunity in a great treat to be able to teach to these fine humans. >> we have been talking with professor adam green of the university of chicago. here is his book, "selling the race: culture, community, and black chicago." >> and more from frankfort, kentucky. mike veach wrote the foreword to

"the history of bourbon in kentucky," discussing the impact durbin has had on america. >> early distilleries, ben franklin -- frankfurt caught just like anywhere else, anywhere from 20 gallons to 200 gallons. and they were making whiskey in the fall, winter after the crops ran and the corn had reached a good percentage of dryness so that they could grind it and make whiskey added that. these distillers' made their whiskey for their own consumption, and they also made their whiskey to sell. they would sell it to grocers who would then turn around and sell it to buyers, celebs, whenever. all through the 19th century it was extremely profitable as a

business. there was a lot of it being made. there was a lot of it being sold. they were making good money off of it. there were problems to the 19th century. you have to remember, the 19th century, the main package for selling bourbon was not the bottle. bottling of bourbon did not really become something that was standard until the 1890's. the main package was the barrell back to your question about frankfurt, this is where carly h. taylor jr. becomes a very important figure in the bourbon industry. he started off in the banking industry in the 1850's. but he migrated into the bourbon industry. he was a company, gains, very,

and company that bought the old crow brand. the first thing they did was send him to europe to work in the distilling practices and ireland, scotland, england, france, and germany. he came back to the united states and apply this knowledge that he learned about the practices to design the most modern, perfect distillery that they could in kentucky for old crow. well, he takes that knowledge and because independent in 1870 and creates a distillery that was the lsc decisions -- distillery, the osce -- ofc. what he would do, as a show of his genius, he took the distillery, which he bought. a small operation. he built into a modern

distillery as nice as he could because he realizes the importance of having it really nice so that when sales wind and other people came to the distillery to see how it was made it would look really nice, not some bar with a still in it. so the second thing he did is he realize that the barrel was the main package, so he designed of fancy trademark to put on the barrel. you realize that the term brand name comes from the distilling industry because they would brand their names on the heads of the barrel. he designed and nice 0fceh taylor jr. for that barrelhead, plus he made the barrels using brass instead of iron or wooden hoops. so he sent a barrel out and would take at peril and shine up everything and make it really

fancy said that when you walked into the saloon and saw six or 8 barrels across the back, his would stand out. the fancy barrell brand name and the shiny brass hoops. he was really realizing how important the packaging was. so when you came in with your judge in wanted to buy a pint or quart of whiskey or whenever, you know, you would look up and say to my want that one. kentucky is very fortunate in that they had a lot of people that knew how to make it was the. and it also has a very nice geographical balance. the limestone water, which is iron free and very bad for making whiskey. you take a nail and drop it into a glass of bourbon and come back. the burden will be back with, and tastes nasty.

so the iron-free water in kentucky. plus you have a very nice balance of hot summers and cold winters, which allows the was key to work into the barrel and bring out those nice flavors and such. so kentucky just had that nice, proper balance. people who knew how to take advantage of all of this and make good whiskey built a reputation. >> right now. >> is doing quite well. you could not say that. the bourbon industry went to a huge decline. and generation of people that were saying don't trust anybody over 30. are not going to drink. most of what they drank or brown spirits. burbank, right, scotch. the new products such as vodka

and tequila. to products that the government did not even bother to keep track of until 1970's because there were so few sales. so the industry was in a huge decline until the 1980's. it really is the single malt scotch industry that helps bring bourbon back. one of the things that people were drinking in the 15 70's -- 60's and 70's were wind. tastings and dinners. magazines devoted to wind. people writing books. well, the industry decided to play up and show people that the single malt whiskey, which is fairly uncommon in the united states before the 1970's, late 70's, early 80's, they started shelling and having a encour