lead an important legacy to all americans that all americans can build upon. >> host: author randall kennedy, thank you so much. >> guest: thank you. thank you for having me. >> host: it was a great discussion. >> guest: thank you. ..

and mental toughness that's been adopted by soldiers over the centuries. this event is just under an hour and a half. >> i'm always sort of humbled by coming to any place like this with you wonderful guys and gals and that i'm speaking to you kind of feels a little odd. i feel like you should be speaking to me. you guys have my deepest respect and appreciation come you guys and gals for what you are doing. i want to thank general mulholland for getting this here and to joe green men, who is the one who pushed a lot of buttons are not endorsements of this thing out. so i hope that helps a little bit. let me tell you where this came from. i just have a book coming up right now, a novel called the profession. it's kind of a tom clancy-ish thriller, whose premise is a generation for mercenary forces have replaced forces.

as i started thinking about that, i started to ask myself, will there still be a code of honor when people fight for money? i mean, when it hits the fan, are people going to be eaten it to the boondocks? so i started asking the question, what exactly is the code of honor? what exactly is "the warrior ethos." is it planned on a cause or will it arrive spontaneously, just from a group of men that have to fight and depend on each other. i think it does and they think it will. in any event, it made me think about what the warrior ethos was, so put this together for whatever an operative like you guys. i think probably every leninist term and room and even people

not are because of the "the warrior ethos." when you think about when you join to make the decision, it probably had something to do with that. either you were felt like you had a warrior athletes for sunday night at and you are looking for a venue where you can use and i want to join the most elite unit i can join or maybe you felt that there was the absence of that in your life. it might've been a draft were wondering, am i going the right way? and heading for jail or some kind of a life that is not going to bring out all that they need. he said to yourself, i want to go somewhere where this kind of code of honor exists and where it can be taught to me. so i think -- i'm putting myself in your minds. it's certainly why i joined tonight in that is what -- i

hope that is what you guys are too. the other thing i think it's rainy honorable about making choices in america today, it really is a choice. i mean, if we were born in ancient sparta or ancient macedonia, there'd be no choice. it would be the only thing that was. but as general mulholland and i were talking yesterday, the 100% of the armed forces coming under 1% of the population. and so, that is a real choice here someone made because if you think about it, the values of the civilian society -- and i'm not knocking anything here, but are quite opposite to the warrior ethos values. so the conscious choice to choose is a pretty amazing thing. let me just talk about the values for one second. if you think about it in civilian life, probably the paramount value is freedom,

individual autonomy. the person can be whatever they want to be. a rock star, donald trump, president of the united states. whatever they want to be a modest life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. and rightly so. that is what makes america great. when you choose the warrior iquitos duty becomes the value and service so you can wear your hair in a ponytail if you choose to said no philly to plan for a couple months or at all. so that is one value. a second value that the greater culture at large holds up really high is money, wealth, the pursuit of affluence of celebrity, so somebody like donald trump or somebody like that is lionized throughout the culture, whereas no one will get rich in this room from what you're doing, instead of money when the voyeur offers his

honor. there's a great story about twin -- i'm going to say a few agents juries heard i hope they don't put you to sleep. when the syracusans in sicily were under siege by the athenians, the spartans came to their aid. whenever they went to another country, they never sent money or an army. they just send one man, a general and he would kick the market shade. when he came to syracuse covetously recuses a very wealthy city in sicily and they had virtually no army. so he had to somehow form an army out of these kind of crazy civilians. and so when he went to pick its officer corps, he gave these instructions. he said search for a man who cared not about well or power or who creates honor.

and i would guess that is pretty much what is billing this room here. another difference between the civilian values and warrior iquitos, they want the converts. they want air conditioning and they want an easy life. if you could take a pill of this 20 times, you do that. and the warrior culture adversity, the frustrated batter and people -- when people tell stories and a warrior culture, it is always the most hellish stories possible, right? and i know i am a marine and when marines talked about their history, they don't really talk about the great victories, but they talk about the worst casualty scenarios, like iwo jima, reservoir, that type of

thing. but the embrace of diversity is one of the great -- one of your virtues. and i think one other subpoena nine. so i'll say one other thing about special forces group members. in my opinion, i think that you guys are the pinnacle of the warrior ethos because not only our soldiers have possessed military skills, which we all know how difficult that is, particularly with indigenous forces in something like that, that is really need a highest level because a small group of men have to go into a completely foreign culture and exercise influence without authority. not able to make people do what you want to do by money or power or anything, but only really by

personal magnetism and personal honor and personal integrity and personal warrior. so that is about as high as it gets and i salute everybody for that. so that make it into what i think the warrior iquitos is. and i am going to start with some stories from this book. for quick little one minute stories about ancient sparta. when i talk about the the warrior ethos, i'm talking about a classic old-time hm warrior, which one of the things i hope we get into questions, i would love to hear what you guys say about rules of engagement and some of the dubious gray areas. this is old school we are about now. these are for quick stories about the spartan women, the ancient spartan women. somehow it always starts with women. these stories come from a book

called morelia and a part of that could called fans of the spartan women, i highly recommend it. so here are four stories. a messenger returns two starters from a battle and the women all gather around to find out what happens -- what is happening to them and peered into another from the messenger says, neither can your oldest son was killed facing the enemy. and another says, he is my son. and he says to her, your younger son was alive and unhurt. he ran away from the enemy. he says he is not my son. one story. , another message of returns from another battle in another purchase hendon says harold, how fair is our? herald hearst into tears and says i'm so sorry to tell you, all five if your sons were

killed sase the enemy. and she says, you fool, it did not ask you about my sons. i asked about my country. he says mother we were tourists. she says then i am happy and turned around and goes home. then the third story, somehow to spartan brothers were fleeing from the enemy back towards the city and their mother happened to be coming down the road. this may be slightly apocryphal. in any event, she lists her skirts over her head and says where do you two think you're running to? back here from whence you came? [laughter] and we don't know the end of that story, but hopefully the two brothers turned around and went back the other way. then the final spartan mother stories the shortest one of all. one of the spartan mothers to the hands her son a shield as he is sending them up to battle and says come back with this.

for that to me as a hard-core culture. you know, when your own mother is teaching you there is something to that. so, i'm going to refer back to those stories. there's a reason why told those, not just because i love those stories. the warrior ethos arrived out of the hunting ban and issues that we needed for a subtle, niche armed with only a couple spears to take on mastodons and stuff like that. i think it was really designed originally anything to accomplish two things. one, to overcome fear, the god of the battlefield and to make people work together. and so, since fear is probably the most primal emotion, self-preservation, other emotions and other things have

to be brought in to counter that in a cultural way. and i think that's where the warrior ethos comes from. there were at least three things recruited to counter fear and make people work together. and that was on her, shame love. let's start with shame for a second. a lot of people don't think of shame as a positive. but certainly almost every great warrior culture is a shame-based culture, whether it's the samurai culture, where if someone suffers dishonor, they have to kill themselves. and certainly, pasture and wally is a shame-based code of honor. would certainly save the marine court is a shame-based and certainly sparta was a shame base. for instance, going back to the stories come when you think about the mothers whose son was alive but it ran away from the enemy and she says he is not my

son. that's kind of the real -- that is the application of shame to make people go forward into the face of fear. there is a great story about alexander the great -- excuse me a second. -- when he and his army were in india and they had been fighting for 10 years almost. the army was ready to revolt. he retired. they wanted to go home. they have enough of this. so alexander called the whole army together. i don't know if you heard this story. he stripped in front of him. you could see across his whole body was just one wound after another. yet been loaded with javelins. brock's had been burned, everything possible. as we said to his men come look at these moments on my body i'll go out for you and in your

service. you will know they are all different. there's nothing in the back. he says i will make you a deal. if anyone of you can stand forth from the army, come appearance stripped beside me. if your wounds are greater than mine, altering the army around right now and will walk home. not a man came forward and the whole army burst into each ear and they baked his forgiveness for their want of spirit and make them only to beat them further forward. so that his great leadership, but what i really assist the application of shame jamaica men's, to make the men go forward and kind of seminaries. inspired a, they used a hot -- the pretty young girls had anthems of shame, that if someone failed in action and came back to the city, there were a number of things that happen to them. the pretty young gals used to

gather around and sing songs of ridicule. the next time the guy went now, you could be sure he didn't. in other words, shame is a technique to make the application a shame worse than fear of the enemy. okay, let's talk about honor for a second, which is the flipside of shame. honor, as we know from tribal cultures and i'm sure you guys know this better than i do. in a posh tuner culture, let's say, honor is the most prized possession of a man. much more important than money, land, women, and the. as long as the man has honor, he's okay. if he doesn't have honor, life is not worth living. so honor is that high level, which each person internally will not let himself fall for. there is a sameness gunnery sergeant in the marine corps

named danny featherstone and he tells his young marines when they complain about their salaries come he says in the marine corps u.k. to salaries. a financial salary and a psychological salary. the financial stocks, the psychological and this applies to everyone in this room, is knowing you're part of a court -- i don't need to repeat it. he says that is a psychological salary is honor and that is something that is worth a lot. how can you put a dollar figure on that? was i going to say -- i'm blanking on the other part of this thing. there is a great part and i know you guys are thinkers and breeders and so you probably know this one. a conversation between 5:00 p.m. and the club owes. deciphering about anybody here? anyway, to princes of lydia saad on the side of the persians.

i wish i could quote it, but i'll have to paraphrase. they are standing on the sidelines, battles reaching out to your and they know they have to go out in a minute or a house and they're both scared. if someone says to the other, he says, brother, when we are back home, we are treated as princess wherever we go and we get the choicest cuts of meat are reserved for us, finest pieces of land. when we got a public entertainment, but for a perceived are reserved for us. why is that? it is because we have to go be the brunt of that battle. we have to go out there right now where nobody else wants to go. so that is honor we must fulfill. i wish i had a great coat for the exact words. therefore, let us go when glory for ourselves were ceded to others. so those are two things we are talking about so far. shame, honor and the third part

is the love. when they mean by love is the bond of brotherhood between the men. everybody knows here, that is the strongest bond. there is a famous moment on the final morning at the battle, when there's 300 spartans had released all the allies. they'd all gone home. only the 300 spartans into thespians remained with them. they have been developed from the rear and they knew they were going to die in a matter of 45 minutes or something that bad. so some of the young warriors went to the spartans d. amicus. i asked him, what should we hold in our minds right now so will act with honor? you know, what it boils down to the final, final thing, what should be thinking about this moment? he said to him, don't think about any highflown concepts.

don't it about honor, don't think about country. don't think about the survival of greece. don't it about democracy freedom. don't think about any of that stuff. fight only for the manager shoulder. he is everything and everything is contained in him. i think all of you guys know exactly what i'm talking about. i think civilians don't understand when wounded warriors, guys who have lost both legs want to go back into the fray. as the first thing they want to do. it is a great love between brothers that is the counterpoise juicier. the other think of the soldier's prayer on the eve of battle has always been not lord preserved me, but lord let me not prove unworthy of my brothers. so those are the three things of

love. i'm going to talk about a couple more virtues that you know, but there's a couple more stories i want to tell you, too. another great warrior virtue is a diversity. everybody here knows about this. guys are jogging in 100 degrees and all the other stuff. all great warrior stories are stories that trials that were bills undertaken momentarily to purge the spirit and strength and the spirit. there is another great alexander's story, when alexander first invaded afghanistan -- i forget exactly when it was, but there is a detachment of tribal elders came to him and they warned him not to convey their country because they said there've been a lot of guys to come in here before you commit all come to agree. from the things they said if

they had very poor weapons that these weren't little ponies they rode on. nothing compared to alexander who was a thermonuclear real army of the state. the tribal said to him, you may defeat us, but you will never defeat our property. what they meant by that was that they could endure war and they would hang and, lose every man, every women, every town they house, but they would never quit. as you guys know, that same sort of you've got to watch as the week at the time scenarios are still going on. so the willing embrace of adversities -- one great story that i'm sure you know, that in 1907, the arctic exploiter was going to lead an expedition and he placed a two line ad in the london times is that i wish i could quote this. something like men wanted for

dangerous mission. low wages come a long hour, of darkness, freezing cold, horrible child. you're probably going today. no chance of recognition is successful. the next morning there were 5000 guys lined up around the block. so people do want the adversity, the warrior spirit. my favorite warrior virtue, the top of the line is selflessness. and i think that to me is the highest kind of spiritual virtue. in the civilian world, everybody is kind of charged to do the best you can for yourself. get what they can. get yours, get your hands and bring it home, where is in the warrior culture and that is right from the very start.

i'll tell you another vantage point. the macedonian army was crossing a waterless desert, blistering heat, some scouts went ahead and found a spring. they were able to get a helmet full of water and they came writing back into the army and brought it to alexander to the king. everyone in the desert, so they'll concede, they would've to alexander, broaden this water and they stopped right where it was. alexander took the water from the scouts and thank them for bringing it to them. without touching a drop, put it all out in the sand. again, a great cheer went up from one end of the column to the other and everybody said, you know, with a leader like this in the kinglike this, we can go anywhere.

so selfless is another great virtue. and one find out -- it's not the final one, the one that they think sometimes gets overlooked because it sounds kind of egomaniacal and making people in the feel is sort of are embarrassed to say it. this is just the desire to be great. and looking at giselle. you know what i'm talking about. just the desire to sell, the will to prosper, to be the best and not settle for anything mediocre. i'll tell you another alexander's story while were at it. i hope these are too many. when alexander was a boy, when he was 11 or 12 years old, he was the heir to the throne is not john. his dad, philip was to throw at them for streeters came to macedonia bringing warhorses for

sale. so while the cauvery authors went on to try them out. alexander was down there. there was one horsing bucephalus who was the biggest, longest, type this, obviously the greatest force they are, that he was so wild, nobody bought him. so you let them go without putting a bid. the little boy said something like father, death-defying piece, so the cauvery officers turned around and left at that. they said you think you're going to write? he said yes, it will. and i'll buy it too. he said how we pay for this? so they let him try. so alexander had noticed that the horse -- i noticed something that the horse was spooked by his own shadow. so he went out and grab the bridle of the horse and turns the horse into the sun. he just kind of columns that

were sound a little bit and then sprung into this battle. to make a long story short, he took a full tote around the track when he came back from his father, philip was in tears and went out and embraced him and said son, look they can do greater than ours, which clearly, macedonia as too small for you. of course it was. that is that any desire for greatness is a good part of the warrior ethers. now, i'm going to do something quickly. i like to talk about tribes. now, special forces as they tried. this group is to try to come seventh group and of course there are real tribes over there in afghanistan and in the body

and baghdad and all the places you know so well. and what is interesting is that the warrior virtues that i was just talking about our tribal virtues if you think about it, that one of the things that will try obedience is a big thing in tribes. tribes are constantly at war with every other tribe. you know, they may coalesce together win and a beater comes from the outside, but as soon as the bakers driven outcome you think about native american tribes. the sioux were constantly fighting the comanche and whoever they were fighting. so that's the nature of tribes. the other thing about tribes is that they are not -- conduct is not governed by a system of laws, or by a code of honor, which is like special forces and again is like other tribes --

presenting fair trade. the willing embrace of adversity is another aspect of tribes. and you could make a case that when the american military trains its young recruits, what they're trying to do is make them into a tribe, make everybody wear the same clothes, have the same haircut come eat the same chow, to the same training, compelled them to be together and force that both. eat together, so on and so forth. there were many other tribal qualities that sort of atco the warrior eats us. but this is what i really would love to hear what you guys think about this. this is where what i'm about to talk about his wickets in a gray area in a morally dubious area. two aspects of tribes that are very powerful and don't align

with the warrior ethos is one is that a tribe exists for itself alone. if you think about the names that the american indian tribes have for themselves, like the navajo call themselves the danae, which means the people. a lot of tribes have the same sort of name for themselves as this they are the human names and everyone who is not in the tribe, you never think about people at israel, they are the chosen people. and so, a tribe -- this is a quality of tribes to exist for itself alone and to see anyone outside the tribe is not a full human being. and when this gets aligned with the religion that's a fundamental and basically fanatical or at least an extreme part of the religion, you infidel or you're a nonbeliever or you are not -- you are not a

full human being. and when that competence, when that idea happens, then all sorts of actions can be taken better not because human beings. the warrior ethos, the classic western warrior ethers embraces entries with respect in hopes that the enemy -- the warrior once -- where he first wants nothing greater than the great enemy. the better the enemy come the more honorable to better because one measures themselves against two is fading. and you have examples like that, even in the nazis. he was a classic example of an old-school warrior, when he captured prisoners, he gave them the same rations he can't.

the numbers of his gestures of charivari towards the enemy our beach en masse they say. so that's one thing about a tribe, where it differs from the warrior ethos. the other thing is in the same category -- again this is the dubious area. tribes notoriously to get about native american tribes, prison gangs, mafia, any sort of tribe like that are notoriously cruel, particularly to women and particularly cruel to captains. and whereas the warrior ethos is exactly the opposite. when anyone comes into power, into the power of two warriors, they take care of them and there is no exploitation. they might not give them steaks and baked potatoes, but at least they are not torturing them.

so i'm going to kind of fade out on that note here and ask what you guys think about how much force, you know it's okay to use. let's talk about interrogating prisoners. you know what i'm talking about? i'm kind of losing my enteric elation here. in these gray areas, does the warrior ethos apply to some of the situations that we are in today, where the rules of engagement are not hit them with full firepower and blow them out of the water, where you have emergency type expand tribal engagement policies. i am wondering this myself. i don't have the answer. is the classic the warrior ethos

outdated? does it need to be -- when you're fighting against an enemy who doesn't share the same code of honor, do you keep your code of honor or do you adjust to the enemies? anyways, that is my question. but before he do that, let me wrap up and i want to say something personal and then wrap this up for my part here. to me, the warrior ethos doesn't just apply to warriors. it is not just about war planning. i myself as a writer use the warrior ethos every day. and i think that where the warrior ethos comes to its highest level is when it's employed internally. you know, the warrior ethos behind it is a view of life that

sees life as a struggle. you know, life is not an entitlement. it's not a free ride. it's a struggle to a the warrior ethos sees it. if these enemies out there that must be confronted and it says that one must do that with honor and doing it with honor as a form of living out your high yourself and the enemy is that in my opinion are not just external to our country or even enemies within her and organizations, but in their own hearts, and the enemies like self-doubt, laziness, lack of generosity to friends. all of devices, all of the internal basis to me, the warrior ethos and these virtues of patience, willing acceptance of adversity in those kinds of things are at their highest when they are internally.

i forgot one final alexander's story. when alexander was in an era, he happened upon what they called in those days should not do this, which trains late to the wise man beauties who are down sending themselves in meditating on the banks of the indus river in alexander and his party were going through the narrow streets and came to a place where the yogis for her. they were happy, so one of the alexander's young lieutenants was kind of kick in the of the way and they still wouldn't move. at this point, alexander himself came out in the young lieutenant said you're one of the yogis. he pointed to alexander. he said this man is conquered the world. what have you done? you the cup without missing a beat up that i have conquered the need to conquer the world. at that moment, alexander laughed and he said, you know, if i could be anybody in the world except myself, i would be

this guy here. so what alexander meant by that was that he recognized that the c.o.p. was an inner warrior and probably had been a warrior in his youth, but with no struggling to achieve the same virtues, being a warrior versions. so that's it army. would anybody like to say anything, ask anything, whenever? [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible]

[inaudible] especially after 10 years of work, unique, 10 years of constant combat has never happened throughout the history. as a result of that, something we're doing well, other things of concentrating on x number of tasks and mutombo said is ask

for something and they are suffering from decay. determining what the first part of the challenge. so this larger discussion is actually part of that. but we have wrestled with issues. we still have those soldiers on trial, the killing team. i'm sure you're familiar with that. for allegedly soldiers killed afghan civilians for sport. that's what the charges are. there's certainly enough there. when we recognize that as being outside of our east coast. so this is a very relevant discussion we are having about who we are and what it means to be a warrior or certainly a soldier and i would apply that across the joint force at the

end of the day. there is a very old study now. i think it's dr. jekyll was written professionally but it was means to be an american soldier in the western context. another piece of that is the notion of what it meant to be a night in western european culture. and to be a nightmare to be sanctioned by the church. it meant that you had chosen this is the difference about tribes and perhaps warriors and people who are now under your control. and so, you were sanctioned by the church because it was meant to be a constraint. it was meant to be an enabling

tool for god and country, but you are limited on how you can employ. and you saw her in a and those who cannot defend themselves. and those who fell in your power by virtue of combat. the japanese went through this. the japanese are infamous to this day and you can't talk to a specific better in -- and you don't have to scratch long before the feelings of what it meant to fight in those days. i have friends -- what a lot of people don't remember is in world war i and most of the japanese war, and the same timeframe, the japanese war are

now internationally recognized for their treatment. and that was very much considered the code, west that a warrior can secure those. the virtue of my accomplice are not responsible for. there is manipulation of that code. governing military philosophy.during lead to the worst of conquest the world worked too. now without code too. now without code too. now without code too. now without code named the height of dishonor. i was always part of the code. now we transmitted the same obligation to the adversary. if you surrender to me, you're no longer a human.

there is now some peanut they are for whatever fit. that all surrounds us. that's the environment we operate in. bouse peters, retired army, military intelligence officer and thinker about what it is we do. he takes a pretty strident position on how we ought to be operating. in fact, he was using the term warrior. of course, warrior is that tribal contacts is not constrained. so he used the term soldier deliberately because he was another step up on the

evolutionary scale of thought to ultimate professional. i guess the point here is that what they think about as we very much are a soulless government. we redefine who we are because it's very, very important to us to bond who we are, especially as one enters the community because we are arguably -- perhaps this is only striving that's possible. they are representative of arguably the height. fatso restraint should be. all of our tribes come to this

timeout for her. whatever it is because we constantly speak and have proven every day. what have you done for me lately? [inaudible] [inaudible] we are in conclusion our participation to understand that the soldier virtues still are

and where perhaps the virtue and expect nations. i think it reconfirms. we are different. we are know to display different and rescues another army. for the armies of the time, the most of the world will have a group. every option.

idea lack mexican-americans in the chinese-americans because they no longer access because it would've made us so different. america is not a perfect country. but the truth of the matter is the artillery. we uniquely have that talent.

this conflicts to solve the problem. we train ourselves. i mean, we comes from the end i'd. that's for sure. if we were alexander,. we are different. that's what's made an american army. at the end of the day, an

example of that for us, the power, who of course is also how begins the violation of that. but we wouldn't trade that for the world. i wouldn't trade it for the world. because it defines who we are as americans and indeed because it can uniquely let me go forth to battle, wants to protect our country and it is to extend to those peoples at least some portion of what it is we afford in the united states is supposed to conquering. you know, we don't do that. we come home. so anyway, that was too much. i took up a longtime mayor. but it is important. these are important discussions.

so i'll shut up here as soon as i get comments on that. but i thank you foreseen it up. >> i am going to jump in and save on what and before i ask questions. and that is alongside the warrior, there is another kind of breed of cat that we kind of lost track of, you know, since vietnam. and that is the citizen soldier, what is always kind of was the american ato, right? the farmer, the minute men who would take down a flat black, you know, and would serve as long as he was needed and then as soon as he could get his discharge he was right back home to the farm. and you could make a very strong case that a democracy really need citizen soldiers. but nowadays i think the army and marine corps are much more warriors, much more professional

forces since the all volunteer army, which i've got to talk stop, too. in the worse we are fighting outcome i don't think citizen soldiers would be so great. but there are dangers to a professional force. anyway, let me stop. does anybody have anything to say? yes, jim. >> i think we can all embrace the warrior ethos. [inaudible] i think we all embrace this recognized value. at the same time, how do we take that knowledge to use it to predict or anticipate the actions of our enemies and embracing this like we do. especially his ocd is talked about coming nuclear armed

virgin empire, who might not embrace morality of warfare for my come as you say can you see the enemy or the other tribe or anybody they choose. >> i don't know if the warrior ethos helps us out there. it really only determines what we do. but yeah, i don't know. does anybody have anything to say on that? the warrior ethos seems to me our governing, our conduct. but you are right. they're not too many enemies these days at a living by the same rules. >> he recognizes not only a sense, but a morality to warfare as i asked campaign for the

iranian population. >> i think our enemies definitely have their own warrior. somehow suicide bombing is an honorable game, right? it would help us to really understand that in its total context and its religious context and historical context, which i don't think we do. i certainly don't. i project my own kind of american values and tweet them a little bit. i know i'm not getting it right. but it certainly would be great if we understood that. [inaudible] -- i think there's evidence that points to every human being is made of the three components. iv, soul and retrieve real hard in body, physical fitness is

important, that emotion, intellect, all of that we focus on. and there is this theory that is emerging that if you left the spiritual component and you're not -- you don't have all the attributes needed to fit into this kind of a culture and then that leads to problems. a lack of morality, no conscience and the spiritual piece is obviously your conviction that god. and then that kind of constraints you on how you're going to operate because it is the source of morality. and if you don't have that, you end up going off to church like the japanese, like some of the current adversaries are doing in suicide bombings and staff. what do you think of that? and injuries ideas history, how does that spiritual component

fit into the warrior ethos? >> i think you're absolutely right that is crucial. the certainly people have different conceptions of what god means and what religion means. and i think for us it tends to be a forgiving or more of an embracing kind of thing, rather than kill them all and sort it out later. there are lots of other cultures but that is kind of the idea of what spirituality is or what spiritual has been. i guess the general tendency is doing may be the spiritual areas, kind of worries pushing it. what is right? what is wrong? what do we believe as americans? i think it's really a work in progress. i mean, alexander -- this is probably not the right -- one of the advantages that he had i

think clearly was that he was -- his religion was polytheistic, multiple gods. not monotheism. so when he conquered iraq, he was able to -- was babylonia, he was able to go to belmar.i. guess was the god and to have a great percussion to the temple see and not -- that was used to him. so it's okay. he could relate. it was like george w. bush saying i don't even know what it is. so again, i'm not sure in answering the question, but there are a lot of different kinds of spirituality at inc. and we are kind of groping out towards what is ours, but is congenial to ours. but you're absolutely right. the third dimension -- the other to feed right into it without it, no good. sorry, no pets not -- it's the

best they could do. >> i think when the army didn't have its own code, we created our own code of the leadership. i think even the private and your army teaches you that code is more the challenge you have where it's headed. and so, you can take about any day and afghan. he'll tell you about it after him the vignette he learned. i think that says give us an accurate and obsess without morality peers. during the difference between right and wrong.

and then i think is a culture, we in the military -- we in the army especially to look to hold people accountable. we've got a group of soldiers going off the reservation who are aired from that card if he will ever going to hold accountable. our culture expects that to happen. i believe our society expects that to happen. one of the things we strongly embrace the selfless service. one of the gang are civilian society doesn't. we talk about it just now. and i think we all look for ways -- even when you look at the polls, the military over those other people who are proposing the selfless service. you know, what are your thoughts on how he can provoke the

servicemember community, not necessarily service to others, service to someone else. have you seen anything? have you thought about what you have to share with us on ways we can promote some of that goodness that can come from the warrior ethos, the goodness to talk about, how we are all internal worriers for cells. i think it's really good. those are the set of conversations you have when you are the only show in the room. >> yeah, right now i have seen polls that the armed forces are the single most respected institution in the united dates by a mile, way above congress or anything like that. but it's interesting because i kind of shuttle in a knot of both worlds. we were talking about this the other night, that the other 99% of the country just doesn't know what the military is about.

i mean, i come and say to myself, i wish people could see you guys write now. you know, i wish people could hear what soldiers and marines say and how they act. so if there was anyway to get that, you know, we need the publicity. i think i may know, the army and marine corps is already doing everything right. it's just people don't know about it. it's probably part of the all volunteer service that it is a professional force that's unto itself. it's jacksonville and it was lewis. so anyway -- i don't even know. that's some way of getting -- i don't think much needs to change with the army. it just needs to be more known out there in the real world tasting. ..

the criminals in prison who right now doing the things in iraq or afghanistan are being prosecuted for that right now. what patterns had you looked at as an al-sayyid of server who studied the ethos and have seen to these guys are not like fell four years -- warriors you're talking about in your book and what can we do to bring those attributes out here in america before we take them over there so we can take them out or

isolate that behavior and point in the right direction so that they don't come to that place in time where they are more like a tribal union than a member? >> all sorts of the top, doesn't it? whoever the commanding general or even the of political figures above and beyond that, what they're example is gets filtered down but clearly there was a lack of training and completely, right? most of those guys and gals were reservist on top with everything else. am i right? that's what i meant. >> [inaudible] >> killed families and civilians? >> there is a lack of top-down -- yes.

>> [inaudible] and paratroopers in world war ii, and what you will see the go to church on sunday and see the guise of refuse to go to sleep because they will be sitting next to you what you will see is that we have a false sense of history [inaudible] it tells a story in this book they personally executed the soldiers because he was afraid if they let them go they would come back and kill. >> that is not what he was recognized for.

>> but he was also not punished for it either so we have a sense of what the american army has done in the course of time not just these kids and afghanistan, but we have to have a better sense and i think part of our problem today quite frankly is the we are not america. the army and the marine corps are not america today, and i find it a national security issue that we are not america because the american military has become a force with absolutely no political consequence because our politicians have no personal connections or experience by and large to force. today we are pretty extraordinary. there's only 100 members of the house and senate who are veterans or have some affiliation to serve which is actually extraordinary speed to

as a chief who struggles through what our challenge is is to find the army to the american population who by and large has no point of reference. when you walk into an airport there will be members of people about knowledge you or pretend to ignore you. the growth of the colleges will be 55 and older because they fought in the viet nam. they will come up and they will look you in the eye. the second part of that group are the women whose sons are in the army and they want to know somebody's taking care of their sons. the other group will be the record that pretends not to see you but if you sit down next to them they are responsible for saying something to you because our society is built on guilt. they are guilty and.

[laughter] >> there is a lot of truth to that. >> it's to tell them one, they didn't serve and [inaudible] >> that's our challenge to the nation is to do that and it's funny that the chief brought this up that the little card we give to kids, you know, i thought it was a joke when i first that's what my father and brother [inaudible] that less than 1%. >> included the civilians my thought process is everybody serves the country even

civilians, even the guy at mcdonald's. when a soldier by is a hamburger he is serving a soldier said he is serving the country. we all contribute to the economy. we all contribute to something in the country. but i think that the military is the most honorable way to serve our country, but i think everybody -- it's about letting civilians no thank you for serving the country because they do in some form or fashion, very small and it can go very large and i think that's how you get the civilian population to appreciate what we do. >> when you have an opportunity to sit across from one like several of us did last night and tell them i thought about joining but it's okay that you didn't. as a matter of fact, the quote that was put out last night is we serve so you can be anything you want to be.

i can be anything i want to be. this is the life i chose. this is the life you chose. you want to be a real estate mogul, go for it. you want to be a rock star? jump on. but that's the opportunities the military gives is that everybody doesn't have to serve and it's okay. >> if you can give the time and place [inaudible] >> something. and that is [inaudible] the concept is you are rewarded decent things other than monetary. >> i would also offer that when you spoke about the other virtues of the warrior and you said there were virtues that the warrior ethos was to have the desire to be great i would also say that a lot of the warrior ethos is the desired to be part of something greater. >> that's a great point, yeah.

>> absolutely. >> yes? >> [inaudible] our fellow citizens supplying the military force and the concept of the ethos and the reality today that is going to be the key for us in what we do on behalf of society and the ability of the war years to. the only way to do that and get away with it in the context of the modern society [inaudible]

maintain a high your standard like this whether you are on trial for murder [inaudible] one the problem with most people in this room may have higher standards described here [inaudible]

with a higher value in society is to a higher standard and that's going to allow us to speak [inaudible] >> thanks. i mean, i think maybe the whole country is in the process now of defining who the united states really is. not just the military but talking about the service and high standards at this particular enemy that doesn't fight by the rules is really kind of making us ask ourselves what do we really believe? who are we? are we an entire? are we the golden city on the hill that is a modern for other people? and it's kind of up for grabs. a lot of people on the one side of the political spectrum think one thing and the other thinks the other. it's definitely a process. what worries me is so many people have dropped out of that

process and are not even thinking about it. >> the standards in this society, the former governor blagoevich [inaudible] the institution with an effort to say that's why people have a higher duty of soldiers and a professional force [inaudible] that's why abu ghraib is not

acceptable in the culture of the warrior ethos and why we executed the germans. that's not acceptable that makes it wrongs of this has been a large army. we have a million people, 2 million people that served in this army and over 200 years of history and serve all along the army history, but at the end of the day there is something we all aspire to. i think there is a value in being able to define the moral high ground, and i think even at 1% our society looks to us to help define what that is. our challenge as individuals becomes how do we promote it with a neighbor, how do you promote that in the church and promote that in your community county talk to civilians about

this. might not be taxes but it might be how you challenge them to go do something else. there's an expectation that you're going to pay taxes, but again the guilt based what we have and the western culture certainly is how do you apply to push that button and get them to do a little something extra. yes? >> looking back in history to the macedonian and spared the the societies in your opinion looking to the future in your opinion because the society back then has a whole or in your ethos and and promote the war fighting effort. it appears in our society 1% of the people do massive work that our societies get less and less

warrior ethos [inaudible] that seems to have transpired and that is a winner without having is that the society using the warrior ethos in the end because congress and our elected officials don't have the military experience. how do you see that playing out in the future based on the past that isn't a good trend, do you think so? talking about sparta and macedonia we are more like athens. that's what i should be talking about, but in the sense that one of the things we still have as a

society and no other country can come close to in my opinion is if you are born anywhere in the world and they give you a chance to go anywhere you can go anywhere you want where are you going to go? you are still going to go hear from you are not going to go to russia. you're not going to take your family to russia or go to china because here unfortunately it is part and parcel of the dumbing down. here we still have that freedom and the one per cent of you is protecting. so i think i fit for me if i were the azar if we could kind of bottle that and concentrate that rather than a four like society or anything but become is a tough call because you want but the freedom is very, very important.

whenever you can elevate yourself to. now, sparta and macedonia, when this part of selwa excess of the warrior ethos, they were so hard core and so, you know, they wouldn't let other, they couldn't come to sarva because they didn't want to be contaminated by outside influences and so when they kind of achieved the how gemini over these and became kind of imperial powers, the officers kind of ran amok. they were corrupt, they exploited and people came to hate sparta and that's kind of what happened to them because they didn't have that broad base they were so rigid that they never really had it. and. [inaudible] that's where it really comes

from. we come from society. how can the army continue forward with this war year ethos. how can we move forward in the future as a reflection of the society as the society continues to change it comes from they grow up with what they learned what are they going up with now? what are they growing into in this institute now as it goes forward? we don't have rules and regulations. we follow wall but i think the moral compass piece that you were talking about is one of those things that is ingrained, that is something you grow up with that is a european peace and you are going in and that is going to stand up. that is when the doors are shut and you are standing there by yourself and you are making the decision you are coming up with that ethical decision going forward and now you are leading all of those soldiers that group is around you say you don't have

these incidents took place. but as the society progress is having less of the accountability or do it for me not self sustaining how was that going to affect us in the future? >> that is a trend that is going the wrong way i think a lot of people don't talk about it, but a lot of society is sort of want to hand off the military thing to this 1%, this one group we don't want to have our sons go in there and that's not healthy if it were me i would bring the draft back and probably might not agree with that but if it were me we want to compel people to serve even whether they want to or not come just to get a taste of it. but that's a really good point and it's kind of a troubling point. and actually, if you read my new book, the profession it's kind of about that sort of stuff. yes?

>> [inaudible] >> that's a really good question. that is a tough one because, you know, a highly structured organization gets its strength from that but then again in those stifle dissent and innovation and, you know, i know of some innovative people who have ran into some trouble. so, i don't know, i think that is across-the-board organization struggled like a place like apple computer. steve jobs and that kind of thing to encourage this kind of innovation and stuff but actually i think in my experience the army and the marine corps are quite innovative and i don't know how

they deutsch, the culture is kind of does value that. and it starts of the top. whoever creates the atmosphere that allows people to step outside of their role. if it's the wrong person at the top nobody raises their hand and nobody does anything. it's a tough question. yes? >> [inaudible] talk about the ethics and moral values and things of that nature, and unfortunately stand down briefings where i would ask the question what is honor and the army values it's very to

call to for the squad level soldiers to define what honor is. you're not going in knowing what honor is so we want to get something like this and to put it together is very important. having a conversation with the soldiers it is really helpful but using the example of the public the people like from ohio state very successful, but a poor decision and think fully our society holds them at. [laughter] >> by attrition people are not living according to the standard of integrity and to have those conversations among ourselves to define them even though we may come from different places and

having as an atheist agnostic religious perspective help for them [inaudible] with a guy above i can respect you as a human being that's helpful for others when the rubber hits the road you go out there and are ready to leave ino the anzio is an atheist because he's got the army values. >> yes? >> one thing i was wondering if you can he elaborate with your studies is basically the difference between where the ethos and the values, the reason i asked that is because i know a lot of people here personally had to deal with tribal leaders overseas and values may be different than mine and

different in our societies however our warrior ethos would bond us at least enough to where we can work together. and so are there any similarities? however, there are differences as well and we talk about the spartans and the values of the culture of time might be different than the values i have for the values of our society however the warrior ethos >> ignites in certain areas, yes. >> if you could elaborate debt that on your studies. >> the warrior ethos is a specific set of values as we said like not everybody in america shares it, very few do but it's particularly true in tribal societies that that really something like a warrior

ethos is the good of society so the more like a warrior and american is there being charged by that standard of the indigenous people and i think it is when you guys are all about when it turns to relating the indigenous insurgencies and things like that as being the same, sharing enough of the values and being enough of a warrior because they're watching and they see everything like nothing escapes them and and that a great truth or you're the respect flows. so i'm not sure i'm answering your question right. >> that's kind of volume deluding to and i can only go on a personal experience. >> you mean like christian verses islamic? >> along those lines where over

in afghanistan there is respect for the female -- >> right. right. >> i still have the same warrior ethos. >> you share of their values, honor, integrity, that sort of thing. >> i definitely see the two different sides with the values mean even though they are intertwined and being separated and i wondered if you have that address in your studies also. i agree exactly with what you said that there are values that are shared between the indigenous population and the troopers that are over there. i think the same thing of what we were just all the virtues we are taking off our shared even

though others are not, but you can bond across the values that are shared, and it's actually kind of interesting for i think american societies to be exposed to the other cultures to the kind of weren't up until some of these some people do see the world in quite a different way at the same time that they see it in similar ways we can relate to. let me release you now. i feel like your day should be starting. thank you very much for coming. thanks for having me and i salute all of you. [applause] 64 very much. thanks for staying. [inaudible conversations] >> for more on stevenpressfield and his work, visit

stevenpressfield.com. what are you reading this summer? book tv wants to know. islamic there is a book about mafia valley that is sitting on my desk that came out several weeks ago. i want to read that book and then there's a book called reckless which is what went on in terms of the financial crisis in the country and what led up to it and involves the two local businesses freddie mac and fannie mae so i know lots of the players and i am curious to read and find out what went on there. and then there is some things i want to go back and read. there was recently a controversy about huckleberry finn and the use of the n-word and there was a professor that to get out of the text, and this sparked a controversy about sanitizing american history or in the

context of my own book sort of politically correct speech codes and how inappropriate it was given the fact that mark twain samuel clemens wrote it with the power of that word in tended. so i want to just take a look at what the sanitized if you will text looks like and so in that book is sitting on my desk. and then there are two books. i am trying to remember their names and this is such an opportunity to help out the authors that i am reading. about one is a book by lawrence block who is a mystery writer and it's called a drop of the hard stuff, it's a mystery novel and lawrence block to me is just a terrific mystery writers of that is actually at the top of my list.