especially in the military. blind obedience. we didn't let the germans get away with that, did we? but george, we were the good guys. we were the ones who were attacked. all true, he said in history is written by the victors. a good case can be made that the japanese were already ready to surrender. we wanted to drop those bombs. we wanted to send a message to the russians. he looked straight at me. you can say that i didn't know anything before hiroshima or what the bomb would do, but what about three days later? i knew then. ..

knowing full well they were anything but pacifists themselves. i will have much to answer for when i meet st. peter at the skates, he says. i am hopeful he will be merciful to me. father george went on an 8000-mile walk from seattle to the holy land. that took him two years. when he returned, he came to see me. michael, i've been thinking for some time and wondering, why did you come to the seminary?

why didn't you continue want to be a priest? well, i said, a number of reasons. i was only 14 when i went. at 15 the hormones kicked in. plus, i didn't and don't care for the institution and its hierarchy and what the institution says it stands for has little to do these days with the teachings of jesus christ. and they also told me not to come back. he said, i've been reading some of your comments about the church of the pope in your newspaper and it just worried about your soul. i laughed, george, you don't have to worry about me or my soul. i'm doing just fine. but it seems that you've left the church. let's just say i'm a recovering catholic. that did not go over well. would you do me a favor? and pray with me right now? are you serious, george?

yes, i just want to make sure you're going to be okay. i'm going to be okay and i pray when they need you. just say the lord's prayer with me right now and he began, our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. george, stop. this isn't necessary. that kingdom come, that will be done on earth did -- george, stop. this is creeping me out. don't say that about the lord's prayer, michael. i think you need this. i don't need it and i don't want it and i don't know what's gotten into you. he became silent. he looked at me and said nothing. i didn't know what to say. the silence was excruciating. it is important that you carry on, he said when he finally

spoke. it's important to do what you do, but you can't do it without church. even if the church and the church needs you. you need to go back to mass. need to find a place within the church where you can find peace. i realize that he was talking about himself. i realize that he still blamed himself for what happened 19 in ireland and that if it were not for the church, for his sake, who knows what would have become of him. for every thing he had given how self over here she not coming at the catholic church there to give a chance to redeem himself. he was still a priest. he could still do good with that it may be in his mind, if you get enough good, he would be forgiven on judgment day. i looked at this old man and understood the demons he still carried with him. i wasn't offended that he thought i needed some sort of

saving. it was an easy thing to forgive him for. i spoke. give us this day, our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. in latest not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. amen. he smiled. they are, that wasn't so hard, was it? no, george, i said kindly. it wasn't. good, now what you want me to do for next week's paper? [applause] >> thank you. let's open it up to some

questions. if you could wait for the microphone and keep the questions short because of the time limits and constraints here, it will all work out just fine and i'll answer anything you want to ask me. the first man is ratepayer. >> first comment thank you from the heart and vision. what are your thoughts on the field of gop contenders? [laughter] >> well, i do feel sorry for the old-school republicans, the ones i referred like my grandfather who just believes in the basic conservatism, where there's a lot of good ideas in that. i think the thing that amazes me about the current crop of candidates is other than jon

huntsman, who was the mormon who believes that there is global warming and he believes in evolution and he helped get a civil unions law passed, other than him, the others amazingly believe that america is as crazy as they are. that is what astounds me. some of the same it is as crazy as they are. do not despair, my friends. we live in a large country. there's only 300 million of us. but allows to be stone cold crazy idiots and it's okay. don't worry about it. they've got their radio networks and their whole thing. it's mine. there's 200 million of us. so i know 100 million looks like a lot, but they are the minority

and we are the majority. i know it's hard to feel that way out because of the despair coming to collect the despair i think most people feel for having been so excited about voting for president obama and been so disappointed and instability to stand up for the things that we believe in. and it's been one of the most distressing things i've seen in my lifetime, why he would cave in so much. i thought it was wonderful at the beginning, him holding up the olive branch to then. when they selected out of his hand the first time, the second time, the third time, the 20th time, at what point do you just stop holding out the olive branch and say, you know, i'm really sorry. i really tried some of that i got 10 million more votes than the other guy. so america wanted my plan and

you can have my pity party and i'm going to have to get some things done. and i wish he'd started with that out of the cave. [applause] >> we will get to the back, too. >> your opinion about the knowledge or knowledge for 9/11, particularly referencing the four widows from new jersey. their documentary in which they reference the isi pakistani secret service and their connection with al qaeda. michael, do you think the administration foreknowledge quite >> absolutely not, no. i mean, i think that -- the record shows that i think august 6th, 2001, president bush will on vacation in crawford was given the security report that said i think the

headline was in london to attack america and determined that he was going to possibly use airplanes. and then he continued on his vacation for the rest of the month and not the sort of disengaged lack a look at he seemed to have throughout his presidency. i think you can claim negligence i'm not, i think as badly as we think of people on the other side of the political fence, i would never think that they would no or allow people to have happen something so horrible or arithmetic. i got asked this before and the vietnam vet asked me, well like, they send 50,000 of us to her death. you know, don't be so naïve. they really don't care about human life. i just really don't want to

believe that. so you know, there you go. >> got one right over year-to-year rate. >> yes, ma'am. >> i have to say about your optimism and it's hopeful to hear any optimism at this point. i know for myself and all the people that i associate with, we feel really helpless, like what do we do now? there doesn't seem to be any leadership among the left or among any progressive people in the country. would you have any ideas about what do we do about this situation? >> i think we should be doing two things. i need we need to get people running for local offices and for congress, that we can actually have an impact on the need to build candidates. we need to grant our own farm team if not in 2012, 2014, 26

income or the right people running for office. ultimately, these two parties have broken parties. the majority of the country in the right or left don't like either party and it's the perfect time to be rid of them in a something else come up in its place. tuition at a multiple party system in this country that accurately reflected the political viewpoint of the majority, all the people in this country. and i thought maybe a year ago what might happen in this election, essentially would have been 1848, there were four major candidates that want country and ran. kerry truman, thomas dooley and then on the far right you had strom thurman and on the left you have wallace, good wallace. and you could have, if the republicans -- as the republican apparatus gets their guy somehow

through an insipid tea party guy, it's possible the tea party was split off and run their own person, which the democrats would love to see, just split the vote. but the democrats don't understand is the unequal chance someone on the left saying that they just can't take it anymore. this is not what we voted for and someone on the left may run as an independent candidate. and it could happen this time. and so, you're going have for people running, which means someone could win with 30% of the vote if the vote is split. [inaudible] >> yes, we absolutely -- yes, many cities and counties have it where you bought your first choice, second choice would you have a runoff system. it would need to go back to the voting system that canada has come or the user number two

pencil and a piece of paper. [applause] the canadians have nearly 35 million citizens. all the votes counted within a few hours. it's the second largest landmass of the country on earth next to russia and yet they get all the votes and in like three hours. they bring to those inbred dog sled and on the backs of baby seals. and yet, it's all in little pieces of paper and it's right there and there are witnesses to count the ballots as they stack up and that is the way they should be computer voting anything to do with scanning or any of that. [applause] >> we've got a question all the way in the back. >> i am a u.s. citizen and i happen to believe that people

like leinbach, and coulter and bill o'reilly are garbage. >> let me just say this. they are not very page. they are human beings and they are part of the same human family that you admire or partners. >> true. >> you're with me so far. [laughter] some of the things they say are garbage and some of the things they do are hurtful and harmful. we have to make sure that we never act or become like them. [applause] i have never uttered the words i hate george w. bush. i would never say something like that. number one because they don't hate him. and never hated him. i hated the things that he didn't make it my best to try and stop them, but they never want to diminish and as part of

the same human family and part of. >> i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt you. >> i'm a highly flawed and seriously overweight. [laughter] >> what did she do for the 10th anniversary of 9/11? >> i was here. i slept in. i had taped the memorial service. i set my tivo and got up and watched it, or parts of it. and i notice that paul simon was supposed to sing bridge over troubled water and it appeared over the last minute when he went up to the microphone he changed his mind. they still had the chiron underneath his name saying he was singing bridge over troubled

water, but he wasn't singing it. he chose to sing some of silence. he went from sitting in a neat optimistic song, ceylon silver girl and sing a very dark and sadly pessimistic song into the neon god be. 10,000 people may be more. it's a very powerful song and i was really struck by what seems to be a sound decision at the last minute. and you know, that ceremony is so tightly choreographed, i don't know what kind of heads were spinning when he did that. i don't know if anyone has mentioned it since i'm a, but i was deeply moved by his version of that song. you can see it online if you'd like to look at it later that night, when the crowds left of the hoopla and politicians have left the area around 11:00 or

midnight tonight until sometime late that night, i went down there on my own. what i said and did was really just a private matter. as deeply affected by i.t. is everyone in this room was. one of the producers that worked with neighbors on the plane from boston that went into the towers. and so, that event not only an enough itself it had a multiple, multiple tragedies take place as a result of it. names are used in vain to start not want war, but two wars. it drew a knife and a reputation around the world.

[applause] i also felt like some of us should stick up for some of those who died so that they wouldn't be used to kill other people. yes, in the back. >> thank you. i just wanted to speak to you mentioning the fact that the president and many of us here hear the media likes to call to depress democratic base with the dissolution progressive caucus if you will. but i disagree with you in that i think obama is not necessarily dispositional as much as it is institutional. by that come the status quo under campaign finance law promotes a photography inside of a democracy. so my question is, do you think of the world come or even our most promising politicians like the president can be corrected by the power of money in politics and cannot insurance

companies and health insurance debate in the bankers on wall street and our financial regulation. do you think in that world that changes truly possible when many like us have our voices diminished the very few come in to their affluent few can simultaneously have their voice increased? >> well, yes, you've answered your question. the money has a lot to do with our loss of power. here's the good news, though. this is why not pessimistic and not cynical about this. no matter how much money they have and they have a lot of it, the richest 400 americans have more wealth than 150 million americans combined. 400, more than 150 million. the thing that scares those 400 the most is they have to put up with living in a democracy. yes, they can buy elections.

yes, they can buy politicians. yes, goodbye after politicians who come in good and are bought off later. they can do all of that. what they can't do though spoke with them once. they only have 400 votes. throw in a few more billionaires, even millionaires, they only have a few thousand votes. we have that 150 million. there are more of us than there are of them and we should never the sight of that. the science we still have our constitution intact, what is left of it, one part that is still there is one person, one vote, right? to the day we wake up and realize that we can change things, simply by running the right people and supporting them as they are in office and if

they turn, we turn on them. but we have to be active citizens. we cannot sit on the bench. everybody must be a participant. but we participate, watch out. a few blocks down the street you're on wall street, they will be in a lot of trouble because there's millions of americans who have seen family members died because they didn't have health insurance. there hundreds of thousands who've lost their home and gone bankrupt medical bills. there are millions of people out of work or millions of people working for nothing, what they can't even pay the bills. at some point, people are going to go, i have had enough, enough. [applause] all of us better be ready for that and be ready to respond with nonviolent political solutions, new parties, new

organizations, whatever, so that energy is directed in a good way because history is full of examples of when people reach the end of the rope, those who believe in the more sophistic way of thinking are very skilled manipulating those who are down and out and they are very good at blaming the other. and that is not a new routine. so get ready for that. that would be the good fight once and not of americans have been pummeled by your economic system, once they rise up, let's make sure we turn that in the right direction when it happens. >> michael cutler time for two more questions. >> you know what, i'll give really short answers. >> tinier big supporter of bradley manning, the original wiki makes whistleblower who is under attack for the supposed crime of exposing the truth.

my question is, since bradley manning's first hearing is expected to be any day now, what can people like us who value the information he's accused of revealing about the word in iraq and afghanistan, what can we do to make sure that bradley manning has a fair trial court's >> that's a very good question. i hope all of you know about bradley manning. if you don't, you should go on the internet tonight and read about it. the society steeped in the fall for doing something allegedly that he felt was something that was right and good for the country. and any other era, daniel ellsberg is wanted for it. in this area, a bradley manning doesn't have the support of the media that supported daniel ellsberg. i think you need to write letters to the editor, get on the internet. need to organize people, inform them of this. i mean, all the things they say are all the things you know.

we've got a problem because we have a media that does not want to respond to this. our liberal media doesn't want to respond. i read in the book about when i gave that speech against the war at the oscars, you have to remember the context of that time. offering can supported the war. bill keller of "the new york times" supported the war. the editor of "the new yorker" supported the war. john kerry in 27 other democratic senators supported the war. liberals supported the war. our so-called liberal institutions like "the new york times" and "the new yorker" completely failed us. in fact in my humble opinion number responsible for this war than george w. bush. i expect that behavior from george w. bush. i don't expect different media.

[applause] they provide a covered for bush. bush was able to say in "the new york times," bill keller supports it. "the new yorker" supported said. come on. he has written an apology this week for it, but in the last week on a thousand people -- teaching a thousand people were arrested in front of the white house over a five-day period? over this thing from canada down here. are you aware of this? there is a little bit of coverage in the media, but a thousand people were arrested. can you imagine if absentee partiers were arrested tomorrow? heard that story be on the evening news? i mean, it's crazy. i'm sorry, i promise to go

short. go to the back first. very quickly though. i promise i'll give a 10 word answer. >> i was there arrested in thank you for bringing that up. >> thank you. all right, next. that was quick. where the lightning round. >> are you working on unit's book and what about? >> i can ever talk about my next film for obvious reasons. i'm working on another project that will happen in new york next year, do you hear about in the near future, but that's all i can say for now. >> hi, you said that capitalism is evil. what do you see that needs to be that replaces capitalism? >> winning economic system where people of this day and how the economy is run. it's not that we get to vote for

politicians. we have to be able to have a say in how the economy works and right now it's completely removed from us. if i were president, not follow a change. in the back, quickly. >> yes, could i somehow get this in your hand, which is a brief description of a film i'd like to make about the housing crisis as someone involved in the housing crisis in new york city for 30 years now. housing is something that's an important issue. the percentage that we take has doubled over the past 25 years. >> your partner make a movie about it? >> i want to. >> i'm doing my best, they work in a part-time telemarketer. >> was making $99 a week when they made roger and me. >> there's video now. you can make that film. ibm with or without your help. i'm just asking if i could get this in your hand. >> no, i can't.

>> i'm kidding, i'm kidding. who do i give it to? >> i just wanted to say i enjoyed your book and i want to know how long it took you to make it in what was process like? >> to make web? >> i'm sorry, your book. >> this book took my whole life because i've been thinking about the stories for a long time, since i was crawling backwards. but the actual rating over the last year. i put more in this book and i have any other book and i really wanted the nuns to be happy. i told the remaining ones who are still alive that is aspiring to literature in this boat. so i don't know if that's the case, that certainly is in my humble opinion may favorite thing that i've written and i'm really excited about people reading this. not because it's about me. i don't think you need to know

anything about me per se, i think some of these stories tell us the social history at these last decades we've gone through. i think it's interesting on that level and i think it will be entertaining. >> this is the last one. >> i'm a student at at nyu in reporting on some of the film students and on the newspaper and i was wondering if you can give this one nugget of advice on people who want to make it on the film industry. >> one nugget of advice. you're a film student at nyu? journalism? anyone advice for film students or journalism or whatever? okay. you don't go to nyu. [laughter]

and why you is a fine school. i only mean that because you are going to be in hock for the next 20 years. now, what i would say to you or your fellow students is to make sure that you always follow your conscience, follow your heart. don't think about pleasing an audience. i trust that the audience will be there. make sure that you are happy, do you feel good about what you done and try to beat those things that when it seems dangerous or seems risky for like maybe have crossed the line, whenever you have the feeling may be across the line, and that's when you know you're doing what you should be doing. [applause] we are taught from a very young age to censor ourselves, pull back, not wrap the boat. it's better to go along so you can get along and we need more

stirred. don't put the card at c-span, just put something over my mouth. we need more people to be muckrakers and go after these sources of power, to never be afraid of them. i think he was ironstone is that all governments and corporations are run by liars and nothing they say should be believed. you should always start with the assumption that when a politician or a ceo at saint and think they are not telling you the truth. now, they may be telling you the truth, that the burden should young them to prove it instead as what most of our media does come which is automatically assume what they are saying is true. it's not true. in the journal critical voice in

critical thinking and i know our schools have not any well at that. civics classes have been eliminated. you have been taught for the past now for the last decade or so. art, music, creative things have been eliminated from their lives. these things are so important in terms of helping us as human beings to cope with this world, which i want to close with actually this will work for you. i have at the beginning of the book a quote or just a two lane scene from a woody allen film called stardust memories. woody allen please those filmmaker and there have been a film fest honoring him and his movies. and he's tired of all the movies in the crowd and the whole celebrity thing and all of this and she just wants to give up and goes for a walk in the woods

and encounters aliens methinks maybe these aliens have the answer. so he goes head-to-head iliad and says to them, to him or to it, shouldn't i stop making movies and do some thing that counts, like helping blind people are becoming a missionary or something? in the alien response, let me tell you, you are not missionary type. he'd never last. and incidentally, you will also not superman. you are a comedian. you want to do mankind a real service? tell funnier jokes. >> thank you very much everybody for being here. i greatly appreciate it. [applause] 's >> ladies and gentlemen, once again, michael moore. >> for more information, visit the website michael moore.com.

>> up next, shannen rossmiller talks about being a self-taught terrorist hunter and the sting operation she carried out with the fbi. this is about 20 minutes. >> good afternoon. thank you for joining us at the heritage foundation. after wreck her lecture and seminar zig my privilege to welcome a return to his lehrman auditorium and welcome those who join us on the heritage.org website. we ask everyone in-house if you make a courtesy check the cell phones have been turned off. it will be appreciated. we will host a program within 24 hours on her website for everyone's future reference and of course our internet viewers are welcome at any time to send questions or comments simply

addressing those e-mails to speaker@heritage.org. our guest today is proof that one person can indeed make a difference. after 9/11, as the mother of three in rural montana, was also serving as a municipal judge, she immediately began formulating a plan to raise onto this unprecedented attack on the united states. her efforts succeeded even as she will admit beyond imagination. ultimately joining forces with the fbi, she participated in sting operations and pioneered digital entrapment tactics at the forefront of today's war and terror. through her work on a new field of espionage, cybercounterintelligence has been founded. we are pleased to welcome transcend into the heritage foundation today. each of us owes her a special debt of gratitude for her courage. we look forward to hearing greater detail from her about

her side economics at the peachtree. shannen, welcome to heritage. [applause] >> first i want to thank the heritage foundation for having me here today. it is quite an honor. a little intimidating, so i'll try to get to this the best i can. but which make a few quick remarks about my book in my story and as i understand with you some question in the other. on 9/11, i didn't know much about terrorist groups or their ideologies. a new and less about the arab world and its culture. however the events deeply affected me to my core and eventually caused me to look within myself to thank urgent determination to fight terrorism on a level not seen before. at the time i started, my question of fighting terrorism, had no idea or can imagine the work undertaken pioneering counterintelligence on the internet would become known as cybercounterintelligence and come home to find the word

terror. the u.s. government would come to prosecute two of the largest cases of domestic terrorism and espionage in u.s. history since 9/11. in the case of army specialist, karen andersen received the largest conviction in the war on terror have been sentenced to statement terms for crimes against our country. the second was the state of pennsylvania -- michael at the trans alaska pipeline as well as other infrastructure locations here in the united states and what he envisioned as a 9/11 plot of energy. over the passengers that were i worked over 200 cases of terrorism against the united states and interests abroad. but the ten-year anniversary of the tragic events of 9/11 fast approaching, it's important we not forget the data change the nation nation and country forever. though americans suffer a miserable personalized of nearly three dozen deaths that day,

honorable soldiers have given advice in afghanistan and iraq. the terrorist that to defeat america has failed to kill the spirit of perseverance. as a proud american i believe our perseverance of the countries to grow and continue. we need to identify what it means to be an american today in a post-9/11 world and explore what we can do collectively and individually to pay it forward by selfless and good deeds made to our community and to our country to continue to make america the greatest country in the world. their stories about history and individuals who stepped up and gave of themselves to become pioneers for betterment of mankind. too often we believe our inabilities and shortcomings are fierce and prevent us from doing the google to effect change. however, each and everyone just looks within ourselves, there is something we can have to offer that can ultimately make a difference. it's my hope in sharing my personal story and experience in fighting terrorism that people

identify within themselves what it is they can offer not only to her country, but communities to effect change for better good of all. the question i posed to each one of you is can one person make a difference against the face of odds? the answer is yes. the change requires each and every one of us to make a difference. finally i will leave you with one final thought and that is, ask yourself what you need to make our community and world a better place for mankind? [applause] 's >> i will help you start a story. >> i'm a little nervous. >> did i understand the audience and the outside you are recovering from surgery clinics where were you at 9/11 and why would you start this? 's >> well, it wasn't surgery, but on the evening of 9/11 i had fallen and suffered a hairline

fracture my pelvis, so that left me laid up for five weeks. i just kept -- it was emotional and dramatic as events continue to unfold on television, it impacted me to the point where i wanted to try and understand these people and how they could do what they did and eventually took a step further and decided to start communicating and interact in. >> where did you find the network? >> well, i was watching the news broadcast cnn in november 2001 and a talked about a website or an internet forum where there's communications that i wrote on the website and wednesday are then asked him where it all started. >> please don't give cnn credit. >> if there's any comments from the audience, will be happy to have those too. as we noted in the text of your book, also i believe no one in the family knew you were doing

this. >> obviously they had seen me the way things are learning and reading things about terrorist groups among the al-anon and the war and terror, but i didn't make it a point to inform anybody in my family. how have bandwidth i received an encrypted file that i opened one morning early in the morning and it crashed the computer. sosa has been was trying to recover everything, there is a large amount of air backfiles that i had to explain. so that's how he came to understand what i was doing. >> any comments or questions from the audience? >> thanks so much for your book and your undying loyalty to our country. i'm kelley stinson from the heritage foundation.

you obviously had to mentally pass a bunch of hurdles before you could give yourself the green light to do this. some are practical ones like i don't know airhead. i assume you didn't know any arabic. others were a judge i know there is a lot of entrapment. could you walk us to any aspect of sort of the logistical hurdles that were there, like learning arabic, and a lot of entrapment, which is clear, but there's international implications. and then i was struck by your excellent interview yesterday on the diane greene yesterday where you are asked to the end about personal security and whether you are ever concerned for yourself or your family. so if you could touch on any of those, would be most grateful. >> okay, sure. first i'll address the the last one first. as far as security goes, i don't talk in detail about what that is meant to say i do have it end over the last two years, the

question was asked, are you ever going to feel like you cannot have to look over your shoulders in the inferior? there is a time in 2006 in 2007 where that was really paramount and on the front burner. with the fbi's help in everything, i do have security on them at a point where i feel safe and comfortable. as far as your other question, i didn't know airbag. i mean, when i first stumbled onto the website is on arabic are the only thing i could do was look at pictures. and they were disturbing, gory, but it said a lot and i wanted to know what the chatter was what they were talking about to purchase translation software. if anybody knows anything about translation software, you don't get the context of what's been dated to your because i was becoming more involved in it, i wanted to see if i could learn the language.

it would not say no arabic. it's an ongoing process for me that i've been doing over the years. i'm more fluent in g hottie talk than i am in arabic top. but that's how you need to talk when i do it. as far as the law and everything, in doing this, it is not something that i think if i have not had the background and the live and do what it takes to make a case in as a judge, knowing have to make decision on rules of evidence and things like that, i wouldn't have had probably as good of a chance at being successful and maintaining and protecting civil rights at the same time. each one of the cases i've done specially about anyone in the united states, entrapment is first and foremost to want affirmative defense you have to war begins. in each stage of the communication i do, i am always conscious of make sure there is no entrapment. i think that is what that

allowed my cases to be solid. back hi, shannen. can you talk about putting the book together. was it fun, did you enjoy it, was it painful? how long did it take some of those sorts of comments. >> i wouldn't say it was fun. it is a process i kept avoiding for a couple years and finally with the right guidance and everything, i was convinced us to be the first time for me to tell my story from my and the importance of what i do and why i do it as well as pointing out how it's impacted my life and changed everything. the life they had on september 10, 2001 is not the life i have nowverything. the life they had on september 10, 2001 is not the life i have now. and so what not, not only was

her chance, the personal sacrifice and loss. as far as putting the book together, i wrote the book of five weeks and aware right to publishing. but it was a very -- it was an internal process that i have to go back and relive each one of these moments are impacting my life to the point where i wanted to explain it and haven't understood the way it was meaningful to me. >> down here in front. >> with the experience you have a mind, have personal experience. i'd been through this for six years and ms pakistan only twice and both times there was a death in my family. anything that happened the first time in news grade school in

pakistan recall at primary school. the pakistani government has a terrorist position. so my question to you, is these people have such a hatred for america and for jewish and it took me like two or three others to vent their frustration and let them know that there's something about about america that the end they want to learn how can they go to america and how can they make money? >> we need to get that up there. >> and how can they get american women? how do you have that title? >> well, i'm not your typical kind of woman or female. i've never been interested in things that are normal. thank you.

going even back in jamaica in your years, i had a very early interest in criminal behavior, so i started studying the behavior of my editing component very early on. and you know, having the opportunity to reflect on the earlier defeat to see what interests let me, trying to understand the whole mindset process of how the airplane thinks and how it's affected by culture and all the different things that impact bat. i wanted to understand where a class of came together for didn't come together. and so, that whole process with some inmates have gone, studying adeptly the tribal cultures, all of those things. eventually, through trial and error of the different identities that creatine use, was able to figure out how to see what things works, what gets

them going. trial and error and figuring out. understanding the mindset has a key. >> what part of that communication -- how many could you follow through on? how many were successful? it's almost as if you had a perfect batting average. >> no, no, there were plenty of times where i create an identity and ultimately messed up so i would discard and create another one. the whole process is kind of hard to explain, but trial and error but figuring out what works and what doesn't is a process that took some time. once i got it down and saw what was working on the internet forms of what i had to say to continue engaging individuals that are, things started to go from there. it took a while to understand the whole process. >> what was the scariest or most frightening? scenario that you were getting were they trying to get you

involved in plots? >> usually what i would try to do is not in the situation is you don't want to give them enough to go act on it. i would caution everyone to communicate with me and trying to take control of it and weed out and extract what they can and that process takes time. the probably cheapest day, i have to say even looking at persons of interest in other countries like jordan and pakistan, afghanistan wherever, probably the most disturbing cases where the special andersen case by the fact of what he wanted to do and kill his fellow kurds, it still bothers me to this day. it's very chilling. >> other questions? we have one back here. >> can you tell us a little about, did you pose energy hobbyist or an american wanted to help two hottest? i am curious about your opinion

of private citizens doing intelligence gathering. that's something you think we should do? >> for smallest part of private citizens doing counterintelligence, i did it to try and understand one thing led to another. but i don't think -- i would not encourage -- it is too easy to think you're doing good and then you're stepping into vigilante almost and you can really impact someone's life in a way that if you don't understand how the law works, how to make a case or not and everything for that comes together, it could be problematic on a lot of levels. although i am a private citizen and i've done this, i wouldn't encourage other people to do it. but at the same time, there could be more training and more focus on analysis and the peninsula process comes together, that would make for a better, more secure approach.

>> maybe you can't talk about this, but i'm interested in how you are able to figure out who these people actually were behind their online identities because i assume they use some sort of techniques. >> now. surprisingly. that's one of the things that surprised me as you can grab an ip address and you can trace it back and there's also the process of people don't realize how many tracks they leave on the internet and how those dots connect them put together. when i put together a profile of the person i am looking at, it's kind of different from a personal profile like one-on-one because everyone asked different and do things different on the internet. so that'll change in how that differs as a word -- that's the difference about the internet has put together for us. i've always been surprised that there is not a better attempt to

conceal or proxy ip addresses. sure, some do, but the ones that don't, that's just better for me. [inaudible] >> as an iraqi veteran which is a thank you for what you did. who knows how many of my fellow soldiers who would've saved. he spoke about the hurdle of learning arabic. i myself have tried to learn the language, but more like in the interactions of the people come the islam faith place so much of a part in every aspect. can you talk more about creating legitimacy and developing relationships with these islamists, with their faith in mind? >> sure. they cited for purpose and meaning and justification as well. when i am putting together in

creating an identity, i pick a particular tribes and figure out exactly what the aspects are for those and how going to play those out. earlier, i would pick one of those more familiar with and try and make it some of the larger tribes. there's a way for me to not be known. one of the things that people don't get and it's hard to understand is exactly how important it is that their faith plays into everything they do. in communicating and doing any communications back and forth, that is key to doing the proper greetings, whatever you're doing for that reason. all about pleasing to the legitimacy that you ultimately want to portray. >> and the other comments, questions? >> well, thank you, shannen.

>> we have copies of "the unexpected patriot" available in the lobby. if you'd like to purchase them and bring them in here and continue conversations one-on-one, that would be welcome, too. thank you very much for your kind attention. [applause] >> to find out more about author shannen rossmiller, visit her website, shannen rossmiller.com. >> good evening, everybody. i am michael aron, political correspondent at mgm news, with two esteemed colleagues in the media, josh margolin, who made his name not in this state, that is not "the new york post" and ted sherman continues to make his name at the blue star ledger and most recently did the series in the valley sewer commission, which may not mean a whole lot of people down here, but it sure meant a lot to chris christie because he went after it and

sort of turned it upside down and about 100 people fell out and haven't gotten back up yet, which is what this book is somewhat about. it is about the downfall of the number of people who were not expect to to be taken down and you of all or many gone to prison as a result into spies have been ruined. you all remember, i'm sure, what triggered this book were the incident that this book is all about. the mass is on a day in july and 2009 as political figures, mainly in northern new jersey and rabbis from the shore from brooklyn, firm the orthodox

community. these two guys decided to write a book about that case and i want to start by asking them why. josh, why did she write a book about this case? >> because nobody understood what happened, why it happened, when it first happened in july of 09. ted and i were close to anyone who wasn't handcuffed and frankly we didn't understand it. we come into the office on a muggy july morning, having been tipped off the night before that something big, quote unquote was going to come down. and into jersey there's always some big and always a politician getting arrested and always a corruption case, but my god, we are there and we are getting reports from our colleagues that are out in the fbi headquarters or in brooklyn. and it's a dozen politicians.

it's two dozen. you have hasidic rabbis in a long black coats with their ritual fringes flowing in the breeze. if the deputy mayor of jersey city who shows up hancock pitches seven years old and wearing a low-cut dress. what is this? would've happened? all we knew as we had this really well put together business lady from jersey city deputy mayor and she's getting perp walk. every year there is an apartment in the middle of it and the feds won't say who it is. and no one understands -- the first thing no one understands how it came together and when you finally find that, we finally found out what it was a tied everything together, we still didn't understand it. why would anybody, to take you back, why would anybody trust solomon way? yet been arrested already under