will add them to our list available on booktv.org. e-mail last at book tv at c-span.org. >> now on book tv historian john ferling presents the history of the american declaration of independence from britain in july of 1776. this is just over an hour. [inaudible conversations] >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. thank you. i'm crosby kemper. i would like to welcome our audience. thanks you tap book tv for an evening with john ferling. i would like to mention a couple of upcoming events before i introduce professor berlin. we continue a series next week, next wednesday it right here at

the central library that was started as much of our programming is funded by the kauffman foundation, particularly mentioning them because this was their idea, and a great idea. a series called princess in the -- kansas city cradle of entrepreneurs. over time we will be doing the history of on to panera ship in kansas city, but right now we are having conversations with great contemporary entrepreneur is. here a few weeks ago. and next wednesday john mcdonald's, the bring pioneer, founder of boulevard brewing company, the finest beer in america. i hesitate to say that with samuel adams beer on the program tonight, but i will be interviewing john, and you will hear great stories about how he created america's greatest brewery. also i was his banker before he became a librarian. the inside story. and his sister is one of our

outstanding employees. she has pictures and bail bonds receipts. [laughter] also obviously a history loving audience. terry back involved, and on thursday, august 11th, talking about one of the most important battles of the civil war, may be the most important, the battle of wilson's creek. this is part of an ongoing series, as many as you know that we are doing with the command and general staff college at fort leavenworth. we are doing these more less on the sec was centennial anniversary of the great battles of the civil war. look for that. and then i also want to mention, we have a documentary film called 45 years across the bridge about the battle. filmmaker will michael hurst mark. that will be coming up at the

plaza library on thursday august 20 fest. a lot more coming up. please pick up the calendar. did on are many honest. join the friends of the library and find out about all the good stuff we have coming up. but tonight i want to introduce john ferling his book, "independence," continues a great series of books on the revolution that he has been writing. a distinguished career as an academic at the university of west georgia. a biographer among other things of joseph galloway. probably the deepest steady of an opponent of the revolution. and for a distinguished academic career he has written a series of books, setting the world ablaze, weaken the dark, adams sources jefferson, almost a miracle. the book that he brought to kansas city here at the library

a couple of years ago, the son of george washington, the hidden american genius of the icon. in the short space of seven or eight years he has produced this wonderful series of very well written and deeply researched books that are popular history at their best. academic research is. the greek domination. and unlike -- he is, of course, an expert as a biographer. all i have to say his writing is a big part of what makes these books so good, unlike what john dickinson said about joseph galloway. he does not commit continual reaches of the rules of grammar and other in good @booktv ignorance of the english language. on the contrary, he is the master of the telling of the --

revealing anecdote, the view of richard henry lee was his velvet glove to hand, maimed hand, gesturing during his speeches or benjamin friends and standing for two hours without moving his face as he is berated by the house of commons committee, a moment that may have changed the course of the american revolution. so humiliated as franklin. he is a wonderful story in. he shines a bright light on character as the motivating factor of the american revolution, and one of the great quotes of john adams which he uses toward the end, what john drolen does so well in all of these books and will continue in his next book on hemet's -- hammonton -- he explains how the

revolution commenced. made in the minds and hearts of the people and the character of the american people and the founders. it is a great pleasure to introduce john ferling. [applause] [applause] >> bob, thank you. and thank you for coming out on this very hot evening. i feel like i am back in atlanta. it's like i never left. actually, today's your temperature topped anything that we hit this year by 5 degrees. but we can beat you on humidity. [laughter] tonight i want to talk a little bit about my book on independence. let me say initially that the

book actually had its origins in an article that i wrote for the smithsonian magazine that appeared back in 2004. i was working on a long book on the revolutionary war at that time. i could not take that article forward and make a book out of it. then i got sidetracked with george washington and looking at how and why he became an american icon. when that one was finished i wanted to get back to the book on independence. this is a book that looks at the last 30 months before independence. its starts -- essentially starts with the boston tea party in december 1773 and runs down to

july of 76. i try to look at both sides. the subtitle of the book is the straw vote -- the struggle that said american free. i try to look at the struggle both in america and in great britain. tonight because of time constraints i am only going to talk about what was going on in america. particularly in the continental congress and see if we can come to some resolution about why those who favored independence won the struggle in july of 1776. in the pre-don darkness of july 1st, 1776, john adams awakens in his running house in philadelphia, got up, and by candlelight he wrote a letter to of former georgia congressman

and an old friend named archibald bullard. adams said in that letter that today is set for the greatest debate of all. today we are going to debate whether to declare an american independence. and as adams was the leader of congress and had his finger on the pulse of congress, he knew what the outcome would be. in fact, his next sentence, adams says in that letter, may have been bless the newborn republic. so he knew that independence was going to be declared. he just didn't know if it would be that day, july 1st, or the next day, july the second. he was not certain how many colonies would actually vote for independence. he is hoping it would be unanimous, but he did not know

for sure. and if adams knew that independence was about to be declared he, better than anyone, understood just how difficult it had been to get to this point. after all, the first great american protest against british policy had occurred 11 years earlier. the british army occupied boston eight years earlier. the boston massacre occurred six years earlier. the boston tea party almost three years earlier. believe it or not, and many people, i think, are surprised to learn this. the war had broken out 15 months earlier. so for all of the first 15 months of the war america was not fighting for independence, it was fighting to remain within

the british empire, but on america's terms. so adams knew that it had been a long and difficult road. years later looking back on these events adams wrote all the great critical questions made by congress in 74, 75, and 76. by close votes, often by only a single vote margin. so now congress is meeting. it is during the war in 1775. there are two factions in congress. i look through the letters of the congress, look through their diaries, search high and low to see if any one of those congressmen gave names to the

two factions that existed. all i can find was that one member of congress called his faction the sensible members of congress. [laughter] and another congressman called his faction the and energetic members of congress. that just won't do. that doesn't tell us very much. i'm going to call one faction the conservative faction and the other faction the radical faction. bear in mind, those are just my terms. no one used those terms at the time. they might not even know what we were talking about. if they could come back in here as use those terms. i will try to explain as we go along why i think conservative and radical are pretty good terms for these two factions. let's look at the conservatives' first. in many ways i think they are the most intriguing because that

is the faction that opposed independence. we take independence for granted. we think it was the logical decision for congress to make. so why would anybody oppose independence? the conservatives did. their objective was reconciliation with mother country, reconciliation on their terms on america's terms, but did -- they did not want to leave the empire, and they did not want american independence. there were probably -- skip to right here. there were two leaders of the conservative faction. in the first continental congress the leader of a conservative faction was joseph galloway. you heard of a him during the

introduction. galloway was a lawyer from pennsylvania, actually became a philadelphia lawyer when he was 18 years old. and this miniature portrait of callaway must have been painted not long after he was 18 years old. he looks incredibly on in that portrait. mid 40's by the time congress meets, however. he is not very well-known today. no cities named after him, no counties, no schools. the reason for that is that he refused to support a war against great britain. so when the war broke out he left congress. ultimately he made an egregious plundered. during 1776 when the british

army was pursuing general washington across new jersey, and alloy present that the american cause was stemmed and the british were about to win. he broke his neutrality and offered his services to great britain. he served a british army as an intelligence official and as police commissioner of occupied philadelphia. as a war wound down dollar was forced to go into exile in england and died in london in 18 of three. he was the original leader of the conservative faction. once he dropped out of congress he is succeeded by john dickinson. dickenson and gallo were very similar in many respects. both of them were born into quaker families.

they were born only 10 miles or so apart in maryland. their parents moved to delaware and settled within only to an orange ball miles of whether there. both went to philadelphia and became lawyers. both became politicians. both married to dollar of the speaker of the house, different speakers, different. both married a very wealthy women who were daughters of the speakers of the house of pennsylvania assembly. and both are major politicians. galloway really dominated pennsylvania during that 20 years before independence. he was benjamin franklin's political partner, and he and franklin had a political party called the assembly party that dominated pennsylvania politics.

he and dickenson, you would think, with all of these similarities, would have been good friends. there were not. they hated one another. there were on opposite sides of issues back in the colonial time, and they just became enemies. and once calloway dropped out of congress, dickinson replaces sam has the leader of the conservative faction. dickinson is a little bit better known than galloway. there are some places named for him, including a college in pennsylvania that you might be familiar with. but at the time in 1775 john dickinson was, perhaps, the best known american. certainly best known american politician, i think. benjamin franklin was probably know by more people, but dickinson was probably the best known american politician.

he had written a pamphlet attacking british policies back in 1768. and he became well known in political circles through the colonies. it was reprinted in almanacs. his image was on display at the wax museum in boston. a ship named for him. so dickinson was quite well known when he became the head of the conservatives. i mentioned a couple of minutes ago that it is difficult to get an handle on the conservatives. intriguing, i think. as many reasons for being a conservative in congress in 1775 as there were conservatives. we can narrow down to about three things, therefore things. first, they tend to come from

colonies, especially places like new york and new jersey and pennsylvania, delaware, where there were strongest that had great economic ties to great britain. so they were reluctant to to -- were lows, in fact, to see those economic ties disturbed. they wanted to be reconciled with england and to continue the prosperity that they had known through the 18th century. there was a great love for great britain, not only among the conservatives, but along most of the columnists who looked upon great britain as the freest country and the western world. probably the most liberal, but politically, and certainly the freest in terms of religion. they also believed in decaying, george the third.

in fact, the conservative program, this reconciliation this program in congress was built around to notions, one was they supported the war and believed that america could do well in the war against great britain and that as america won battles in the war then the mood would shift in england to toward negotiating with america. they also believed in george the third who was the king, who represented all of the interest within the empire's supposedly. and so the agenda for the conservatives was to have congress appeal to the king, what became known as the olive branch petition. some appeal to the king to intervene and open negotiations with america, and those

negotiations the conservatives felt would resolve matters finally. and it may not be immediately. it may not go on for a year or two, but they were confident that these strategies would bring about what they desire. finally people became conservatives for her one of the reason. that is that they feared social and political radicalism. they feared that if independence occurred there would be a social and political revolution in america. that was why i chose to call them conservatives. they did not want a social or a political revolution. and their fears were not misplaced. because as we know, the american

revolution was accompanied by social and political revolutions by the end of the american revolution america is a far more egalitarian place than it was before the revolution. following the revolution the country was on the road to democracy where perhaps as many as 40 percent of the adult white males had been unable to vote before the revolution or to hold political office. all adult white males could vote and hold office by the end of the 18th century. so the conservatives were conservative for all of those reasons. on the other side of either group that i would call the

radicals. if the conservatives are intriguing, the radicals are, perhaps, the most difficult of the two to understand. because in 1775 when the war broke out not all radicals favored independence. they favored taking a harder line than the conservatives wanted. they feared any show of weakness would harm the war effort, but not all of them favored independence. some did favor independence. this is samuel adams. probably favored independence back in a 1760's. he was joined by patrick henry. i think patrick henry probably favored american independence as early as this 1760's.

patrick henry -- i've got a problem here. patrick henry was joined by -- there we go, by richard henry lee of virginia. richard henry lee favored independence as well in the 1760's. the leader of the radicals was john adams. adams, we can pretty much determined when he became -- began to favor independence. adams was approached by samuel adams back in the 1760's, but he kept samuel adams cousin at arm's length. and when samuel adams tried to get john to speak in public and attack the british, and john adams' response in his diary

was, that way madness lies. he thought that samuel adams was plotting an american revolution and wanted no part of its. but in 1773 some letters written by the governor, the royal governor of massachusetts were made public. those letters convinced john adams that there was a conspiracy afoot between british officials in american and british officials in london to destroy american liberties. from 1773 on john adams favored independence. i think probably george washington came around to independence in the 1760's, and i think thomas jefferson came around to independence around tustin time as well. but in 1775 john adams, sam

adams, george washington, thomas jefferson, all the rest did not dare say it they favored independence. they did not even dare utter the word. they didn't because american unity was absolutely essential for waging this war. if they spoke of independence they were so frightened the conservatives, that many of them would leave congress, and american unity would be shattered. so what is the strategy then of the radicals? if the strategy of the conservatives was to fight the war and appealed to the king, the strategy of the radicals was simply to let time work its magic. time was on their side, they believed.

it turned out that they were exactly right in that regard. because in august of 1775 became was handed the olive branch petition. this petition asking him to negotiate. the king's response was not to receive the olive branch petition. that pull the rug from under the conservatives, at least temporarily. they did not give up hope, but it certainly indicated that their faith in the king was, perhaps, misplaced. as far as the radicals were concerned, time was on their side because of the war. awarded a number of things first

of all, a great many americans simply felt betrayed by great britain's going to war against them. after all, in the previous war, what we call the french and indian war that was fought in the 17 fifties with george washington, a twentysomething year-old colonel from virginia commanding the virginia regiment , the americans raised armies of about 20,000 men each year. and without those armies, which incidently matched the size of the armies that the british worsening over to america, without those america's -- without those american armies, without the sacrifice made by american sold, without the sacrifice made by american civilians who paid taxes upon taxes to raise

the war, the british could not have gained the victory that day one in the french and indian war what was the american payback for their loyalty? it was british taxation. other british policies that the colonists found objectionable from 1765 on board. in addition though more radicalized americans. every time of family lost a sun, every time someone's brother died in the war, every time someone father died, every time someone's husband died in this war the members of that family or radicalized. they were radicalized when the neighbors went off to fight in the war and did not come back.

there were radicalized, too, when the war fell on them, even as civilians. for instance, on the day after the battles of lexington and concord where the war begins on april 19th, 1775, america created an army that's rained boston and besieged the british army which was inside of boston, to keep the british army from coming out and attacking them again. after a few months, almost predictably, camp diseases broke out in both of those armies, and those diseases spread out into the suburbs around boston. the disease spread to massachusetts where john adams's

wife, and abigail adams was living. when the disease hit, abigail adams is mother fell victim to the disease. ..

>> he promised what he called the punishment for those who were leaving and backing the american revolution. so the gamble, the whole strategy of the conservatives had suddenly been taken away

from them, had suddenly been proven to be an incorrect strategy. the king would not negotiate. and on the very next day after the king speech was published in a philadelphia newspaper, a pamphlet hit the streets in philadelphia, a pamphlet called commonsense written by thomas paine. this pamphlet was the most important pamphlet written, most important thing, i think, published in 17 come in 18th century america. in fact, bernard balin at harvard a few years ago said that in the 17th, 18th and 19th century, the two most important publications in america work harriet beecher stowe's uncle tom's cabin, and thomas paine's common sense. and i think it was precisely

correct. in that assessment. paine's pamphlet became a runaway bestseller. dickinson's letter from a farmer, and pennsylvania back in 1768 had been a bestseller, had been the best selling pamphlet in fact in this imperial battle. and he had sold about 2000 copies. within six months, paine's commonsense had sold 100,000 copies. and copyright laws didn't exist, it was reprinted over and over in newspapers all across america. and portions of common sense when read by town crier's or read to the troops who were assembled into cut middle army. so many, many americans read or heard commonsense.

today, probably the best remembered portions of common sense are paine's attack on monarchy, a devastating attack that perhaps destroyed for all time any interest in having monarchy in america. but also paine challenged reconciliation, and urged instead independence, saying that america had nothing to gain from reconciliation, but it had prosperity to gain from independence. but in addition to that, there was something else about "common sense" that i think was crucial. paine gave meaning to what was going on. to this point, much of the talk has been about taxation without representation, and that sort of

thing. but paine transforms this into a glorious cause. paine talked about this as being a great event that would change world history. in fact, paine uses the expression that the american revolution is the birthday of a new world. and that the sweeping changes that will come in america from independence will across the atlantic and will stimulate similar revolutions in europe as well. so he gave the meaning to the revolution, and perhaps for the first time gave some meaning to what the united states would be like. remember the conservatives had

said, to declare independence is a leap in the dark, we don't know where we are going. but paine now painted this image of a united states that would gain peace and prosperity, and his example would be transformative for people living everywhere in the world. and then almost immediately after "common sense," a fourth event occurred. the americans lost a battle. it was a battle of québec fought on the last day of 1775, when an american army led by richard montgomery and benedict arnold, who was still on our site at that point, attacked the british and try to capture the city of québec. and failed. it was the first great defeat

that the americans had suffered in this war. and then use of that defeat reached philadelphia. four or five days after paine's "common sense" was published. and from the moment that the news of this military setback hit congress, many in congress began to think openly and speak openly about independence. why? because they realized that victory in this war was possible only with foreign assistance. and foreign assistance was possible only if america declared independence. france might aid america. spain might aid america, and others might as well, but if the

objective was to be reconciled with great britain, there was nothing for these foreign powers. but if america became independent, britain would be weekend. they might gain american trade. they might be willing to come to the assistance of a america. and so, starting early in 1776, you can almost feel a groundswell for independence building. committees of safety called for independence. colonial assemblies passed resolutions authorizing their congressmen to vote for independence. and, finally, in may of 1775, virginia's assembly passed a resolution actually instructing their congressmen to introduce a

resolution calling for congress to declare independence. and richard henry lee who was the leader of the virginia delegation on june the seventh, 1775, introduced the motion calling for independence. there was an immediate debate, a sharp debate that lasted for two days. and four of the conservatives spoke against independence. john dickinson spoke against it, as you can imagine. james wilson from pennsylvania spoke against it. edmund rutledge from south carolina spoke against it. i'll have to show you his picture in the mobile. i don't have an individual picture of robert r. livingston from new york who also spoke against independence. you might think this would be

the death knell, political death knell for these four men. but think again. dickinson went on to serve in the constitutional convention and as a u.s. senator. wilson served in the constitutional convention and as a u.s. senator, and george washington appointed him to the supreme court. and rutledge came the governor of south carolina. and livingston, the chief judicial, chief judge of new york who administered the oath of office to washington when he was inaugurated as president. they were answered by radicals, and at the end of the two-day debate, congress decided not to do anything immediately, other than to a point -- other than to a point where the congress called the committee of five. that committee was to draft a

declaration of independence. and the committee was instructed to submit the declaration on or by july the first. so they had three weeks. the committee met, and as best we can tell, the record is sketchy, and contradictory, but as best we can tell, the committee turned to thomas jefferson who is the tallest figure in that picture. this is john at a on the left. next that adams is roger sherman from connecticut. that is robert r. livingston who is between jefferson and sherman. than jefferson, and on the far side, benjamin franklin. the committee chose jefferson to write the declaration. the committee met, probably talked about the format and what it was to look like, made clear

to jefferson that he was not to introduce a lot of new ideas but he was to explain independence in terms that the americans understood. jefferson wrote the document very quickly. probably within three to five days, probably working here and there around the congressional sessions, maybe skipping a couple congressional sessions. and unlike most of my students, and he beat the deadline. [laughter] he got the declaration and on june the 28th, a couple of days ahead of time. so remember when we started, i said that john adams wrote to archibald on july 1, and he said today is set up for the greatest debate of all. and that was the date that congress had set aside for this. so the debate began on june the first. dickinson was the first to

speak. i forgot to show you. this is a jefferson, and here's a picture of jefferson perhaps puzzling over the declaration, and benjamin franklin who was on the committee. win the debate begins, dickinson is the first to speak. it was a terribly hot day in philadelphia. the temperature climbed above 90. probably felt as hot or hotter than it did today. the room was closed off. all the windows were closed so no one could hear what was being said from the outside. or could be loyalists or british spies out there. and takes and -- dickinson spoke for two hours. and in that speech, dickinson said that his once grand stature

had eroded because of his long fight against independence. but he said that he rejoiced that the burden he had carried was almost over, and that he could not be silent, even though he suspected they would lead to his political suicide. i must speak know i should lose the affections of my country. and in that two hours, he gave an impassioned speech against independence. and when he sat down, it was john adams who rose and answered him first. and adams made an equally long speech. and as adams spoke, the skies darkened, thunder could be heard in the distance. then it grew closer and closer. then spats of rain began to hit the windows in the pennsylvania state house where congress was meeting. and in a torrential downpour broke loose your country and.

and adams continued throughout. we don't have a record of that speech, but he certainly went back through all of the familiar arguments that he and paine and others had made over the years for independence. and it was, according to some of his colleagues, a great speech. richard stockton from new jersey called adams the atlas of independence. jefferson later called him the pillar of independence. and one congressman was so swept off his feet by adams' speech that he said he fancied an angel was let down from heaven to a looming congress. and when adams spanish -- finished his speech, then everyone wanted to speak. everyone understood that this was an ethical day. and the speeches continued on

july the first until night began to fall. and then the next day the speeches resumed, but only briefly. congress was pretty much talked out. on july the second, as best as we can tell around noon on that day, congress finally voted on the question of independence. and the vote was unanimous, 12-0. new york had not been authorized to vote for independence so it sustained. but each of the other 12 colonies voted for independence, and instantly ceased to be colonies and became states within the united states. and that evening john adams wrote a letter home to abigail adams, and he said that from this day forward, july 2 will be celebrated by succeeding

generations as the great anniversary festival. it out to be commemorated with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, on fires, and illuminations from one end of the continent to the other from this time forward, forevermore. and for that reason, my wife and i always have a cookout on july 2 -- [laughter] that's when we celebrate. why do we celebrate it on the fourth? because the next year in 1777, congress for god, and july 2 rolled around and somebody in congress said oh, my god, we declared independence a year ago today. we forgot to do anything. wait a minute, we uproot a jefferson's declaration of independence on july 4, so they hastily cooked up a celebration for july 4, and that became

today that we celebrate. thank you very much. [applause] >> i'll be happy to try to answer some questions, and i think they would like for you to come down to the microphone here. because this session is being televised, and the people at home can't hear your questions and lets you the microphone. >> i'm curious to know if before the continental congress there is any sense among the colonies of the unity quechee spoke a little bit about the army thing raise individual at going out to fight the french and indian war, i did massachusetts think of south carolina, for instance, as a sister called? >> no. there's really no, no unification. i always used to tell my students when they pictured a

map, to picture the americans not facing one another, but looking across the atlantic at great britain. i don't mean to say that there was never any cooperation, but even back in the 17th century, the four -- before the new england colonies got together and form something called a new england federation to fight indian wars, but by and large there's just no cooperation. and, in fact, during the french and indian war, benjamin franklin and introduced a plan of union as he called it at a conference in albany that called for the creation of an american congress that would direct that war. and not one single colony voted in favor of that. no colonial assembly wanted to give up one iota of power. so that continental congress is really a new phenomenon.

there had been a stamp act congress back in 1765 to protest the attacks, but not all of the colonies attended that. so this is really something that is new. >> thank you very much for the evening. very enjoyable. i would see more on the topic that mr. kempe took all my words in your introduction. you started off your presentation with a quote from a john adams later on july 1, i think. and i was intrigued by the words may god bless the republic. i probably wouldn't have been intrigue if it were may god bless the country. >> i don't think he said come he didn't say god bless. he said may have them prosper the newborn republic. >> but the word republic is what intrigues me. it suggests to me that at least

at this point in time somebody has begun to consciously drill down on governance in a post revolutionary era, and that's sort of new to me. in fact, am i overreading that? >> no, you are right on target. several columnists had use the term republic, and there was a sense that america was already sort of a de facto republic in a sense given their colonial governance. but thomas paine had written at length in the "common sense," i didn't mention it, about republican governments as the antithesis of a monarchy, a representative form of government. and i think from that point on, paine really brought it out in the open and it was just talked

about widely from that point on. and the assumption was that this would be, that the united states would be a republican nation, little are. >> i've always been very fascinated by this session of these been getting together and making these important decisio decisions. and yet, as i understand there was no public record, exact minutes were not taken or at least were never published. so what you have to turn to is other ways to find out what may have happened. what happens often time is that hollywood takes over, and in one of the most enjoyable movies and plays i've ever seen is 1776. and it points out a lot of the things that happen. how accurate was that movie and hollywood to what really happened? >> okay, yeah. i think will your question is to

parse that i want to address. one is, congress published a journal of what really have done. but it was really a bare bones. they didn't publish the debates. and after all, there were differences within congress, and they didn't want their enemies here, the loyalists here, or the british across the sea to be particularly aware of those differences. we can i think i handled through some of the letters, reminiscences and some of the good diaries our cat, especially john adams' diaries i think provide something of a record of the debate and he was saying what. not on each and every debate, but on many of the debates. and as far as 1776 is concerned, i haven't seen that movie in

about 35 years now, but i went back and reread the play. i didn't go to blockbuster. i just reread it when i was working on this, because i was interested in the depiction of caesar rodney. delaware had three delegates to congress, and one delegate, one of the three always voted with the conservatives and the other always voted with the radicals. so those two divided, and rodney was not present on july the first when dickinson and adams spoke and the debate really begin. so it's rodney was not present when the vote was taken, then delaware's vote would be one to one and a wouldn't count. delaware wouldn't declare independence. if you remember the play, 1776,

40 if you have seen the movie, rocky is to as having had a stroke early in june. and he says, i want to go home to die. and he tells john adams can you carry on the fight, whatever. and it fast forward to july 2, and a very ill caesar rodney who is the third delegate from delaware is brought to philadelphia and he arrives at the last possible moment, just in time to cast the vote that puts delaware over the top as favoring independence. so i looked at caesar rodney in some detail in the book, and i discovered that not only is there this legend of rodney being ill, but also there is a legend of caesar rodney having

gone home to delaware to care for his very ill wife. and what i found was that caesar rodney never married, so he wasn't -- [laughter] he wasn't at home caring for his wife. and also common he had not had a stroke. in fact, he lived for a few more years. he was in good health. he was actually the speaker of the house of the delaware legislature. and the delaware legislature has not permitted his congressman to vote for independent. and he went home in early june to fight to get the legislature to change its mind and permit its congressman to vote for independence. he succeeded in that. he was also a colonel in the militia in delaware. and while he was home, there was a huge loyalist uprising.