>> supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg recently spoke at the university of california, hastings college of law in san francisco. her interview with the number of the faculty covered a variety of legal issues, including gender equality, judicial confirmation process in the death penalty. this is an hour and a half. [applause] >> thank you and good evening. it's with tremendous pride that we welcome here to hastings the first law school at the university of california system

to create pioneers for conversation and for fun about law and justice. i'm so honored to be able to present to you, john williams, a member of our faculty who is a rock star. he's actually been called back by "the new york times," for her terrific work over so many years, really reinventing the law of the work place. joan has been a major voice on issues of women and law firms for more than two decades. in 1999, she started a project called the project for attorney retention, which came up to modern policies that have allowed working women to make partner at major law firms even after they need to lower their hours. for this work, she was given the

aba's barker ran toward for women voyeurs of achievement. beyond that, through the center for worklife last year at you see hastings, really demonstrates the best of what scholarship is all about, taking big ideas and apply them in the real world. she developed the theory that protects each and every one of us. he may have heard over the past two years that it is now an improper to discriminate employees on the basis of their having family caregiving responsibilities. that was john's work, virtually single-handedly she came up with this idea in 2000 eeoc adopted it officially in 2007. joan will be speaking with justice ruth bader ginsburg. justice ginsburg following a distinguished career as a law professor herself was appointed in 1980 by president jimmy

carter to the united states court of appeals for the d.c. circuit. she was elevated to the supreme court in 1993 by president bill clinton. so please come and join in welcoming both john williams, professor of law and justice ruth bader ginsburg. [applause] [applause] >> i really want to start by welcoming you, justice ginsburg. justice ginsburg and i were talking before this and we realized that she was on the same law faculty is my father and i was sent her daughter's law school class. [laughter] >> and son-in-law as well. and i want to thank you so much for coming out here. not everyone's willing to jump out of a plane onto inflatable

ground. [laughter] [applause] >> i had not planned that is part of my journey here. but i had a unique invitation from hastings law school and it is this way. i think it was evidently his side, here is the program for the san francisco opera in september. [laughter] pic anyone in mary kate will invite russert asked. and so, we thought last night a remarkable production at changi and i think i think the reporter firm insists remaining, so i highly recommend it. [laughter] >> i get the ticket to the opera despite the fact he relate?

>> we missed the first act, but it doesn't appear to think and act. it was the david hockney design and production. it was standing. >> i wanted to go back a little bit and talk about your past in early life. you've often said that the person who influenced you the most was your mother and her two key messages were to be a lady in to be independent. and i was thinking about that. i think for many, many women of her generation, they wouldn't have seen it as a problem if a wife was supported by your head spin. she think differently? >> on the contrary, if a woman were, it was a sign that her has been couldn't make it. it was a disgrace for a man to have a woman who worked outside the home. i think my father realized many years later that my mother would

have been -- she would've had a fuller life had she been gainfully employed. >> and so, it sounds like if she was sending it back or leave a message that it is very important for women and even a wife to be independent, she sounds like the bit of a free thinker for generation. >> she of course hoped that it was something neat prince charming. the >> which he did. >> and be married happily ever after, i say was for 56 years. but he also thought it important for a woman to be self standing and should be able to support herself and her family if need a. >> interesting. another inside view was the novelist cannot let them in off and i wanted to hear you talk about that a little sense most people don't think of artists

and lawyers in the same breath. but you're clearly interested in a track meet to our. >> well, nabokov with a european literature professor at cornell, university and he changed the way i read an influenced the way i write. he was a man in love with the sound of words. and let me see if i can give you one example. it was a quiz that we had on the dickens novel, flea palace and the question was, when we first meet the care here, where is she? and our professor announced that most of you remember that bp said is sticking to re-create. but only seat number 59, which

happened to being a has-been, marty's seat, wrote that we see her at large head sticking through the great and that large could see with an edge of this child you would not have otherwise. i remember that he read to us the first page of the sleek cat, leaving the pictures midflight. he also spoke -- english was his third language. his first was french and russian and in english. and he spoke about what he liked in the english language. suppose you wanted to say a white horse. well, in english eisai whitehorse. and when you get to the horse, it's already way. in french, you say brown horse

that many have to convert it. >> you are known in your opinions far, as he said, keep it right and keep it tight. did that come from him in power? >> it came apart from him. it also came from my being a law teacher google year and realizing that opinions for much longer than they have to be. [laughter] >> i think my students would agree. i also wanted to ask you about your husband, marty gives burke, who you said was the first boy i ever met who cared i had a brain. he is really unusual for his generation in his thinking support for your career. i just wonder very concretely how you balance work and family

day today. for example, when he took off to study civil procedure, your daughter must've been five or six. how did you put it all together? >> marty and i married the same that they graduated from cornell. i have never lived alone and they worried about little things like can i figure out the tip at a restaurant? could they do those things for myself? so marty understood and was supportive of my decision and kept chained, who i guess was in kindergarten and when her school finished, she came and joined me. so i had six weeks on my own. i got it out of my system. i was confident that i could manage for myself. but one of my two-year college friends noticed something about marty when we were very young. we met when i was 17 and he was

18, that marty was so confident of his own ability, so come trouble with himself that he never regarded me as any kind of a threat. on the contrary, he always ate me believe that i could do more than i thought i could. >> my gender and the law class wanted to know what advice you have for finding a partner who's really a partner. and i think he just gave it to them. >> the other special thing about marty casey was a great cook. [laughter] and he said he attributed his skill in the kitchen to two people. first his mother and then his wife. and i think that is very unfair with respect to my mother-in-law that i was an accurate description of me. so we started out, i was the

everyday cook and he was the weekend and company cook. i had seven things i could make. and when we got to number seven, we went back to number one. [laughter] and they all came from a book called the 60 minute shots, which meant nothing took longer than one hour to go from the kitchen to the table. marty got us, as a gift -- who spent the first years of our marriage in oklahoma, the location of four cell. and marty was an artillery officer. so, when jane was born, i went back to his folks and she was born in long island. my cousin sent marty theus copy a cookbook, an english translation of that, this will give you something to do while

your wife is away. marty had started out as a chemistry major until golf cart this interview. so he took the scope book and treated it like a chemistry tax and started with the basic stuff. and we were apart for two years, said he was quite accomplished by the time we left. >> so kookiness chemistry. >> and then, the best part of the story for me is jane is a brown years noticed the tree in mommy's cooking and daddies cooking and she decided that i should be phased out of the kitchen. [laughter] we moved to washington d.c. in 1980 and i have not cooked a

meal for the day we made our move. master even today. my has-been died a year ago june. but my dad or comes once a month for me. she fills the freezer. sometimes she makes so much i have to take the overload to the court brief fridge. >> that's wonderful because having risen much about you and know when you don't to cook, i was worried about who is cooking for you, so now i know. another question related to your leg has been from my class as well, as you mentioned when you got appointed to the d.c. circuit, he gave up his job in new york or was he just a professor? >> u.s.a. council.

he was a professor at columbia law school. >> and he gave up both in color due washington. >> he transferred to georgetown. >> georgetown, yes. what would you say to young men about why they should expect a family situation where their careers sometimes come second? >> i think in a family there is a balance. sometimes when we started out fortunately in oklahoma and then we were students together for the next two years. it is natural to share everything. and when marty was starting out in the park this and eager to make partner, i'd say it was responsible for the lion's share of taking care of jane and the home.

but that allen's changed when the women's movement came alive and marty appreciated the importance of the work i was doing. so then i became the person that was -- whose career came first. and when i was appointed to the d.c. circuit, so often people would come up to me and say, msb hard for you commuting back and forth to new york. i couldn't imagine that a man would leave his work to follow his wife. and even then we go to parties and we would be introduced. i was introduced as judge ginsburg. a hand would extend to marty.

[laughter] that didn't happen when i was appointed to the supreme court. [laughter] [applause] >> so you see young ladies, we have a solution to that problem. >> i should tell you too, that marty was a member of the denis thatcher club. he was introduced by john o'connor. and the qualification for being a member of the denis thatcher club is your wife has a job, but in your heart of hearts he would really like to have her job. [laughter] >> i wanted to talk about the first case, he seems you're a supreme court case which is christian legal society versus martina. it was the first amendment case that said that hastings would

insist that all student groups except all commerce. in other words, be open to anyone who wanted to join them. and what we teach that case, we find that students are generally satisfied with the supreme court's opinion i'm sure you'll be pleased to hear. but they wondered this. if every student group is required to accept everyone, they wonder how an individual group can distinguish itself or its viewpoint. do you have any thoughts -- is not ethical question. >> the history of that organization answers the question for years. the christian legal society accepted all commerce. and then when they became an affiliate of the national, and he was the national who said you can accept only true believers. and people who are part of the club when it was open to all commerce tacked about the experience of having people who

were not the same. and particularly, having gang members and how it affect the demand. so it ain't he was pretty clear that the equality policy worked and it did and not in any way the story the mission of the organization. it just made them more understanding of other things that were different. >> i want to shift to an establishment case and the establishment cause of course prohibits the establishment of religion. and in one entire prior case law, for example, as you know prohibits states from buying books for religious schools. last term, the supreme court decided arizona christian sto versus when it involved a stay at the dedicated tax credit for

up to $500 worth of contributions to student tuition organization when that money is used to buy scholarships to pay for students to go to private schools and other religious schools. a taxpayer suit, saying this violated the establishment clause and the supreme court majority, which you didn't say they have no standard to pursue common distinguishing and maybe overruling past cases. as a think about arizona christian sto comment makes me wonder what is left of the establishment clause. it seems that all the government needs to do his structures have through a tax credit for a different tax expenditure rather than pay a direct subsidy. so why is the establishment clause so important and how is that case affected interviews? >> there are two distinct

issues. only one was involved in that case. and that is, who can complain about if violation of the established that cause? the presidential case cited, although taxpayers in general tampering suits because they're not hurting any more than the next person as taxpayers, but we have an affection to the establishment clause because unless we allow taxpayer standing, then the government arguably in violation of the cause says to go unchallenged. and the arizona case said taxpayers needed to an attempt

to distinguish it said that unless you have the facts themselves, it's doubtful whether you'll be able to challenge any action of government is a violation of the establishment clause if you're merely a citizen taxpaying. what is the content of the establishment clause? has changed, it was once thought there was a wall of separation between church and state, that it was best for the state and that's for the church is each tended to its own house in the government stayed out and the internet going with religious organizations. there is frankly a different notion that the current maturity of the court has and that is there is no wall of separation, but there is a rule of

nondiscrimination. that is in the tuition case, if you're going to give money for scholarships to catholic schools, equally you must give money to jewish schools. the notion is lots of room for accommodation of religious beliefs and the prohibition is on favoring one or the chin over others. so that is the current debate. and what does the establishment clause mean? does it mean state stay at the church affairs, or does it mean, state, you can give it to religion. you can support religion as long as you do so without preferring one religion over others. >> that's a really dramatic shift from the understanding of the establishment that was top

class at my school. >> the two strains were there from the beginning. yes, it is. >> you've always really loved the procedure, which is msa administrator name. [laughter] >> well, the reason is the greatest law school teacher i had was benjamin kaplan. the very first class i had on my school for civil procedure. can this man was so engaging. i also had in a civil procedure class, a classmate. his name is anthony lewis and he was on a newman fellowship to harvard. he was a journalist and he was taking courses in alaska will and in the college. and on that first day, he performed brilliantly in class.

so i went home and said to marty, you know, i am not going to make it. [laughter] they said you're the system or smart as he is. i said i'm going to try to volunteer and talk in class as much as that fellow. but they don't know whether he would have loved this this subject so much affected how this really extraordinary teacher. >> it's also very tight as they think for you with access to justice. is that right or not right? >> you cannot fault the rights of the world. but if you can't enforce them, they're not worth very much. >> it was a supreme court case i'm not going to remember the name, last term, that is very well known in which he dissented. it had to do with whether an american who would get injured

by a machine manufactured abroad could sue in the united states. do you want to talk about that a little bit? >> democrats do craze? >> exactly. >> this is a man who worked in a metal shop in new jersey. the employer had -- had purchased a shearing machine that was allegedly perfect david was responsible for the accident. the manufacturer had engaged in exclusive distributor in the united states. the manufacturers object was to sell as many machines and a place in the united state. the manufacturer showed its wearers ever year at the trade fair of the metalwork organization. but the court held that there is

not sufficient ties to the state of new jersey to allow for the exercise of personal jurisdiction over the foreign manufacturer. my point was we are a nation and a world that doesn't know from states. you know from the united states. at this manufacturer couldn't care whether it was new jersey or arizona or texas. just wanted to sell machines and the united states. the question mentioned me, either sufficient contacts with the united states? is this manufacturer sufficiently affiliated with the united states to authorize suit here? and then the question becomes one of what lawyers call thank you. yes, there is an affiliation the united states, where to sue. the place of venture was a logical place to sue. after the accident happened,

that's what the witnesses were. so my colleagues -- it was a five to four decision said that thais have to be to new jersey, not the united states as a whole. it's by classic example of why this current court is not pro-corporation, that's a bum rap for this reason. there is any single manufacturer in the united states that could escape liability to someone injured in the united states release of the product. the foreign manufacturers are home free. they can exploit a market in the united states, but they escape liability for the injury their product caused. and worst important for foreign manufacturers are personal injury awards, which are vastly higher than awards elsewhere in the world so that majority

decision i found was very difficult to understand when you're dealing with an entrepreneur who sees the united states as the market and the court saying, that you have to pinpoint a specific state. if you avoid doing that, there will be no personal jurisdiction. >> well, i think when i was reading a casio, as i understand why justice ginsburg cares about civil procedures. it is clearly a very important case and in my view a sobering one. i wanted to talk a little bit about the case is that i teach and have spent my life studying. the key cases that began in the 1970s, with the litigating and writing a brief about gender. as of 1970, and i quote you, the

supreme court has never met a gentler case classification it didn't like. the 14th amendment, which guarantees equal protection under the law was seen as applying to race, but not gender. and this had been subtle interpretation for overwrite the 104 years. so the question is, what made you think that you could get the courts overrule over a century precedents? >> the court is a reactive institution. it's never in the forefront for social change. as i was a movement in society that's pushing the court that way. when you think of round feedforward -- brown v. board was not only that thurgood marshall was a brilliant lawyer and made building blocks to get to brown v. board, but it was

the tenor of the times. we had just bought a four, the second world war against a swarm of racism. india, our troops, through most of the war was separated by race apartheid in america really had to go after the second world war because racism is the kind we had in the united states was wholly against what we were fighting for a broad. so the time is right for that recognition. and similarly, by 1970, the women's movement was revived. not just in the united states, but a look at the world. some places ahead of us, some behind, but there is international financier.

that issue that people cared about and the court has agreed the would say, should never react to the weather of the day, but inevitably it will react to the climate of the area. and the claimant was for that change. knowing in the very first brief that i helped write, read the read, we put on the cover of the brief, the acu represented sally reid, the names of two women, pauli murray endures the kenyan, because those women were saying the same thing that we were saying, but they said it at a time when no one was prepared to listen or very few people.

think of the 60s. think of the liberal war on court and the case of hoyt against florida. whether hoyt to us what we are today called a battered woman abused by her philandering husband and when they come that he had humiliated her to the breaking point. she spied a baseball bat when he to her young son in the corner of the room. she took it and hit him over the head. he fell. it was the end of their argument. it is the end of his life and it was the beginning of the murder prosecution of gwendolyn hoyt in hillsborough county, florida. florida didn't put women on juries unless they came into the clerk's office and volunteer for service.

how many men would volunteer if they could escape service collects [laughter] her thought was that there were men pondicherry, they, they might better understand my state of mind. not that they would put me, but at least, she thought, she might be convicted of the lesser crime of manslaughter rather than murder. she was conveyed to a murder by an all-male jury and she had raised that question by the absence of women from the jury rolls in florida also a to the supreme court heard the case and the 1961, we don't understand what women could be complaining about. they have the best of all possible worlds. they can serve if they want to.

if they don't want to, they don't have to. well, the notion escapes that basic obligation you have to participate in the administration of justice. it really means that you don't consider that person for citizens kadesh is expendable and the administration of justice. the supreme court didn't react as it should have to gwendolyn hoyt's case. tenure site a day rate the unanimous decision in this had a weak case, saying, that a provision of the idaho of the probate code that said every trained person is administered to 80 students escape. males must be preferred to

females. the court unanimously held that that was unconstitutional. it was the times and sally reid was an arguable representative of what women were complaining about. her case arose in tragic circumstances. she and her husband were childless and they adopted a boy. they then separated and sally was awarded custody when the boy was a tender years, needed a mother's care. when the boy he reached his teen years, the father said i want to take care of him. he needs to be prepared for a man's world. sally thought that the father would not be good influence on her son and she was quite brave. the boy was terribly depressed

and one day he took that one of his father's miniguns and he killed himself. so sally wanted to be appointed administrator of his estate, not because it had any value, but for sentimental reasons. and she was faced with this provision and she said, that's not fair. i applied first, so i should get the appointment. now, sally reid was not a sophisticated domain. she made her living by taking care of elderly people in her home. she would not have called herself a feminist. she probably didn't even know the word, but she thought that she had suffered an injustice and she had faith in the legal system but it could that wrong.

so it was people like that come in all the cases in the 70s. these were real people, everyday people, who were ready to complain about the system could do something to retrace their grievance. >> the nature of this? >> i was very lucky to be there at the right time and in the right place on a law professor with a flexible schedule. [laughter] >> i thought a lot you're very lucky to be the right person at the right place in the right time and yet you are also quite brilliant at doing sunday night and colette about, which is when you're trying to use legal change to feel social change are in response to social change with the feedback really. how do you orchestrate the courts, the legislatures, the prius, the executive to make it all happen? i imagine you thought about that

in a very self-conscious way. the >> well, we started the aclu women's rights project, we had three missions. and the first with public education. full people have to care about the change. the second was legislature. the legislature get the legislature to change. that was one of the reasons why it was a big advocate of the equal rights amendment because that would prompt legislatures to clean up the lawbooks. and then, finally the courts. so it was -- we worked on all three levels. and i'm legislative change, we got a great gift for the dean of the law school i first attended, when he was listed a general, erwin griswold. it came about in a tax case that

my husband and i -- the only case where we were after cocounsel. and it involved a tax deduction for the care of a young child or a dependent, it disabled dependent in the age. the deduction was available to anyone in court and a widowed man. the plaintiff completed was ewart, a man who never married, but great care of his father, though she was at the time 93. he couldn't get this deduction. he represented himself in the tax court enters brief was the

soul of simplicity. in fact, if i had been a dutiful daughter, i would get this deduction for the care of my mother. i am a dutiful son and i don't get the deduction. that makes no sense. [laughter] so that was the case. we wrote the briefing march and it was the model for the free reid reif. and my idea was -- didn't work out because litigation doesn't always run a smooth course, that we got two cases of stereotype. sally reid, who was assumed to be less competent to administer an estate and charles marx who is considered less competent to care for an elderly parent. if we can deliver those two before the court at the same time, david c. d. irrationality

of these vastly overbroad classification stage under. so now i've strayed from the question. >> no, not at all. i wanted to talk about your early cases indicate that. those cases in the casebooks are commonly referred to as the formal equality cases. and one thing i wanted to ask you is, just for the record, was your goal only former equality? >> it has to begin at the beginning. and what we've faced with statute books can a state and federal that were riddled with classifications based on sex. what we wanted was to open all doors for men and for women that nobody should be brought for non-opportunity or a particular course in life because he was

male or she was female. so the idea was to get rid of all of the older gender-based classification. and that was the starting point, to have lawbooks that did not classify people, make lump classifications on the basis of this. the mother, as a father, is it dishonor for the daughter. that was the mission. and while being countered and approaching courts was something that was action and in the mid-racial justice. as everyone understood by the 50s and 60s, the race discrimination was about thing. but many people thought that gender discrimination operated

benignly in women's favor, that women were told they couldn't do this, couldn't work at night or couldn't work overtime because their hours were limited to eight. all of those protections sheltered women. it was hard for them to see that those so-called protections would operate it as justice brennan said in the frontier of case, to program and not on a pedestal, but in a cage. and so, -- >> the way i see this case is focused not on your formal equality, but focused on the gender system, which actually can use to be the gender system we have to this day, which is what historians call separate

spheres. and the system that associates met with work and women with family and also has very particular descriptions of men and women, that women are naturally focused on care and cooperation. men naturally focused on ambition and work in competition. and as i look back at those cases, it seems to me that a central theme in those cases was to change that system. at one of the reasons he felt so comfortable choosing males often as plaintiffs is that an equally affect a way to deconstruct that system is to change rules for men as to change roles for women. i wonder what you think of that. >> i think that's exactly right. in fact, i've said quite often that it i were to invent an

affirmative action plan, it would be to give men every incentive to be close to children. so i would give them a plus as kindergarten teachers, gradeschool teachers. we would have a healthier world facing its men shared women's responsibility for bringing up the next generation. but you're talking about -- i have a story that just epitomizes the attitude of society, even in the 70s, when the women's movement was alive, i have a son now in his 40s, but then, what i call a lively, lively child. i called them wisely. teachers college and

hyperactive. [laughter] and i would get called when someone to come down to the school, see the room teacher, or the principle sometimes school psychologists. [laughter] and hear the story of my son's latest excavates. so one day of sitting in my office in columbia. i'm very, very tired. which i was most of the time in his ears. and weary as i i was, i said this child has two parents. please alternate call us. [laughter] is his father's turn. and marty did show up. and after that, even though there was no discernible change in my son's behavior, the calls came barely once a semester because people were elected to take her father away from -- and

wouldn't hesitate to take another feel a little guilty if she was off working while her child was making mischief. >> you know, that such an important story. and yet, when i had my own children, what probably 30 years later, exactly the same thing happened to me. and they called me up every single time. i didn't have such a lively child. so it wasn't as common. and when i try to say to them, i was in a tactful as, maybe. this child has two parents, there is a lot of pushback. so i think the system of separate spheres has been far more resilient than we had all hoped in the 70s. but i wanted to shift actually to a doctrinal question. when you started litigating to read seaweed line of cases, your totes, i think, to achieve a strict scrutiny standard of

equal protection. at a certain point, like a good advocate developed a fallback position when it seemed i was going to be hard to get. and settled for an intermediate scrutiny standard in which the government had to articulate the classification of important governmental object is substantially related to the subject is. and then, when you joined the court and decided to famous equal protection case that in many ways and at that line of cases that you have begun in the 70s comedy at my case, you articulated the standard differently. you porting from earlier opinion of justice o'connor, but you articulated the intermediate scrutiny standard as requiring exceedingly persuasive justification. so i guess my question is, did this new language up the ante? to do at the intermediate scrutiny standard a little bit more towards the strict

scrutiny? or will i have to wait to read it in the opinion? >> recall that heightened scrutiny. and it came, ironically, from a case -- let me just describe. the first case was -- >> it came from craig g boring. >> no, it was cassini versus something or do something of massachusetts. this was a civil service system, were veteran scott not simply points out it, which is the usual, but if you're a veteran got a bare pass, you would go to the top of the list and you would trump a woman who had a

99% score. the result was that civil service jobs in massachusetts, the top jobs were overwhelmingly male. and these were women who had scored very high and lost out to a factor in who had maybe a score in the 60s. in that case, i think justice wrote the opinion was that no attempt to discriminate against women, the result was inside of there is no intention to disadvantage women. there was only an intention to advantage veterans to attend service to the country, which everyone agreed. our argument was that the preference was not being challenged, but it had to be

reasonable. you can't operate so it cuts out virtually everyone in. and that opinion, that's when they were exceedingly persuasive justification first came out. so it's a little bit reminded me of when we were equal protection standard was of rational basis, which in practical effect meant that a classification would have to be a lunatic. >> my constitutional law, my presser caught at the test as anyone could pass it. >> so i looked at all the old equal protection cases to find good language. i cannot one that was called rustic water. it's a case that probably decided the wrong way had

anything brandeis in a couple of other very respect it juristic centers, but it had this language that are quoted in reid v. reid, it was favorable to striking down arbitrary classifications. so that heightened scrutiny, the exceedingly persuasive justification is the best trees that i could use and as they been used at least twice before this >> justice o'connor in mississippi. >> that was in 82. >> interesting. that's why he didn't take craig v. boring. as i went to the other language. sorry, this is getting wonky. let's go on. today you said you think you

would never be confirmed for the supreme court because of your activism at the aclu. what do you think is changed? to think it's the confirmation process are the politics are brought to you or something? >> just the process itself, when i was nominated for the good job i now have [laughter] , chief justice worker came to congratulate me. and he said, ruth, you know when i became chief in 1969, my confirmation hearing lasted exact way one hour. i said yes, cheese, and there's one word that describes the difference in that word is television. the members of the committee have all that free time to

communicate to the folks back home, to impress them with their knowledge and they're not going to get that out. so that hasn't changed. what has changed is back in 1993 and again in 94 when justice breyer was nominated, there is a too bipartisan spirit prevailing in the congress. now, vice president and now vice president biden, leaking ranking republican member was orrin hatch. you can read orrin hatch's autobiography and he will tell you this great pride that before the president nominated me, before he nominated justice breyer, he called senator hatch

and said, or income i had a gain of nominating ginsberg or breyer, breyer or ginsburg. would that be okay with you? that doesn't happen anymore. aiming, i was confirmed 96203. think of the vote for elena kagan who superbly qualified for the child and she had many more negative vote because the division was on party lines. sunday, we will get back to the way it once was, but it will take people on both sides of the aisle was sent to really care of making government work to affect that change. i should say privately that the white house people were quite worried about my aclu affiliation and what they call

murder boards, preparation for the hearing. people in the white house staff would take the part of various senators and ask a question and the questions it be, run this way. you run the aclu board in the year 1976. and in that year, the past that resolution. did you vote for it? i said stop because i will not do anything to disparage the aclu. and so, they grudgingly gave up. and there was not a single question asked by any senator, republican or democrat about the work i attended the aclu.

that would not happen to me. >> if you could accomplish one thing before leaving the bench and assuming all of your colleagues would magically agree, what would that could be? >> it's hard to pick out just one game. [laughter] well, i would probably go back to the day when the supreme court said that the death penalty cannot be administered within even hand. ..

i would not be able to make things perhaps a little better. so i have stated in that business. as far as other issues are concerned i don't think the label means as much as students and law professors think they do. watch what the court does, not what it uses. >> you are not a fan of different levels of scrutiny and in the ideal world you shift to

equal citizenship. a i would like to hear you talk about that a little bit more especially whether it provides enough guidance, not that level of scrutiny provide much guidance either. >> the jury case is a perfect example. people as equals citizens and equal in opportunity. = in what they can aspire to do. i do think also that thurgood marshall had the right idea when he said it is a sliding scale. how important is it? governmental interest. surge in defense but just as we would not recognize any odious

racial classification of the kind that once existed, so it should be for all people we should not be stopped from pursuing whatever talent god has given us simply because we are a certain race or certain religion or surge in national origin or certain gender preference. >> when does this end? >> 25 minutes. >> fabulous. has being on the supreme court more or less been what you thought it would be like or has it been different and if so how so? >> the most surprising thing to me is the high level of collegiality. you might not get that idea if

you read justice antonin scalia's descend in the vmi case. >> i notice that. >> dennis his style. is the opinions are always attention grabbing. i don't say anything about the other side or rather people -- may be boring. it is different style. justice sonia sotomayor never put -- anthony lewis -- the 27 on appeal. >> i have those opinions and i was reading a lot of them.

i sometimes wonder, after deciding a bitterly divided case you folks come to work the next day and see each other. how does it work? >> it is not merely respect but we genuinely like each other. antonin scalia is my biggest buddy at the opera. we have traveled different places in the world together. the best example of how the court operates as a family with each other, first colorectal cancer which was diagnosed early in september and the first monday in october, everyone rallied around me to make it

possible for me to show up in court. that first session at the end of it and she said justice rehnquist called and said we should keep you light. what case would you like to have? something he had never done before. and i said she is not -- i am going to go through chemotherapy and radiation and there will come a time i need a light assignment but this time in two cases i would like to have she said those were two cases i was thinking you were pregnant. she gave me one. sandra called and said you will get a lot of cards.

don't even try to answer them. just concentrate on what you have to do. when you get chemotherapy, schedule this on a friday so you get over it saturday and sunday and be back in court on monday. everyone cared and took care of me so i could get to that hard time and same thing by pancreatic cancer surgery. >> that is a sign of the relationship of the justices we don't see often because it is not written down. you have also said we all revere the courts and what we want to do is make sure we don't do any damage to it. that means none of us can

project power will sing leak onto the other. we are a collegial bench. i wanted to hear you talk more about that constitutional vision and role and purpose. >> the u.s. supreme court is unique in the world to the extent society accepts the court having final word on what the constitution means and because that is a heavy responsibility there have to be five people who agree on what the outcome is. sometimes i am asked why did you put that in or the other thing in? and you think about what i am doing i am writing for a court.

so i take notes in our conference and a signed opinions and try to incorporate the views that others on my side and if i circulate an opinion and someone says please take out footnote or citation to my opinion. [laughter] why not? i am heartened by something john hughes said. he always tried to write opinions as cleanly as clearly as he could. if a colleague wanted him to put in something else, let the law school's figure out what is. [laughter] >> having been a law professor over 30 years i thank you.

two students when something doesn't make sense you heard her say it doesn't make sense. >> i can say too that there's a lot of togetherness on the court. we have exchangeds with jurors from other countries. four or more of us had exchangeds with the european court of justice a few times. i was in india with antonin scalia. >> on an elephant? >> yes. quite a magnificent, very elegant eleventh -- elephant. when my friends see a photograph of antonin scalia and this elephant, why are you sitting on the back? >> you heard it here.

we did say that. i wanted talked-about international and foreign law. use and learning about another legal system opened your own system. i don't understand the reservations voiced by my colleagues about referring to foreign and international law and i was talking to a friend of mine who worked for you when you were on the d.c. circuit and she said even then you traveled to other countries and met with other judges in other countries and often with them in the united states. i wanted to ask what insights those conversations and your study of international law have given you into other systems and into our own. >> there are other ways to achieve the same end and there are bright minds in other places

struggling with the same basic human rights issues that confront us. think of the balance between liberty and security. how much liberty are we willing to give up in the name of security? one case i give as an example comes on the supreme court of israel as a judgment--the so-called ticking bomb case. the question before the court was if the police have a suspect that they believe knows where and when a bomb is going to go off, can the police use extraordinary means, torture to extract that information? the message of that opinion was

torture, never. the explanation is if we allow security concerns to so overwhelmed our deep attachment to fundamental human values, the dignity of each person we will come more and more to look like our enemies. what greater victory could we hand them that over time to resemble them in their disrespect for human dignity. i think we have a majority of the court recognize facts the value of -- i should qualify that by saying what another

court does is president and the united states court, people serving our system. but still, if i can refer an opinion to any of them, no one questions that, why should they question something from the supreme court of canada or the german constitutional court for the european court of human rights? >> you also said you escorts failure to engage with decisions in other countries could undermine the overall influence of this country and the sense that we are part of the world

community. >> yes. until world war ii we didn't look abroad because there was nothing to look at. most systems were fiercely attached to a parliamentary supremacy which meant the legislature, not the court said what the constitution means. after world war ii constitutional court's emerged in many places in the world. those courts had only one place to look and that was decisions of the u.s. supreme court. after some years when i went abroad i was often asked we look at decisions of your court -- i don't buy this but to see what

you think about this hard question. and yet you never refer to our decisions. don't you think we have something to contribute to this international conversation? about fundamental human rights? what i have said is with many courts engaged in this activity, if we don't listen to others, if we pay no attention we won't be listened to. nowadays it may be that canada's supreme court is cited in 4 decisions more frequently than decisions of the united states supreme court because you pick

up decisions of that court on questions of human rights you will find that they refer to decisions of the courts. we don't very often. there are notable exceptions. what was the case? the case that held consentual same-sex relations cannot be made a crime. lawrence versus texas. justice kennedy cited the leading decision of the european court of human rights from 1981 and several follow-on decisions. not because we are bound by judgments of the european court of human rights but because that

court was recognized that consensual relations between two people do no harm to anyone. cannot be something that government prohibits. and then also in other cases there have been references to decisions and foreign legislation. you would think there would be more and more of it. when our nation was knew we look abroad. >> very common. >> yes. as far as international law is concerned, that is part of our law. we are among the world's nation's so we are bound by the

law of nations which is what they call international law and john marshall's day. >> i have to ask one question or i cannot face my friends. since i am basically an employment lawyer, the walmart case. >> i thought it would be lily ledbetter. >> i have a question about that too but that was such a happy case in terms of the ultimate result. your descent in lily ledbetter turned people's heads. you read from the bench. one of the first times in your career in 2007. one question before i get back to walmart which they will kill you if they don't tell you about. almost never or maybe never read from the bench.

what changed? >> the court's custom is the majority opinion will be summarized from the bench and the person who reads the majority opinion and summarizes it will say justice so and so filed the dissenting opinion but it is not summarized. if you think that the court cannot simply got it wrong but justice stevens's expression that the court was profoundly misguided, that it was egregiously wrong, and want to call attention to that and in lily ledbetter's case there was immediate object that ended it by saying the ball is in

congress's court. to say what congress meant all along. in other cases you are speaking to a later court. and hope that the law will be as they thought it should be. the great dissenters in first amendment cases they were just two. most of their descents are today the law of the land. either you are aiming for immediate reaction, the reaction to lily ledbetter was just like the reaction to the gilbert case. discrimination on the basis of pregnancy is not discrimination on the basis of sex.

and the discrimination act was the result of that. people understand the coalition -- everyone came on board for the pregnancy discrimination and there was a similar reaction in lily ledbetter's case. >> bringing it back to walmart. the supreme court's opinion unsettled class action law in a big way and also changed the economics of class action law. i struggled to find a question i could ask you but i couldn't find one. but here is what i came up with. what are some of the key issues that provided the -- some of those at the part of the

majority opinion the descenders signed on but i don't want to get too one key. >> there two parts. one is the requirement to have a class-action that you have a common question of law. that was the gateway determination that has to be made in every class action. it had been considered not a very high hurdle. the court held it was quite a steep hurdles. the common question of the law or fact in the walmart case was women overwhelmingly were not getting raises for being promoted at the rate that men

were getting raises for being promoted. and the court said this class has 1.5 million people. those are 1.5 million discreet employment questions. how could there be any commonality? maybe one woman was passed over because she was stealing from the till. maybe another one was incompetent. the dissenters understood the argument that there were people making decisions and they were

overwhelmingly white men and the people they were choosing for the promotions were of the same race, the same gender. perhaps there was unconscious bias. not delivered discrimination but people feel more comfortable with people like themselves. the example i gave in the opinion criticizing the majority was there was a great transformation in symphony orchestras in the united states by the simple device of dropping occurred and so the audition her didn't know if it was a woman or man. as i mentioned this morning my friend told me it was more than that.

we auditioned two. don't hear the woman coming on stage. there was no deliberate discrimination but a woman came on stage and there was a certain perception that was different than when it was a man. the other part on which we all agree was what kind of class action should this be? if you are speaking about injustice you can go under an easier form to deal with than beef 3 when dominant complaint is money. what you want is money. the be 2 classes were prominent

when people were seeking class relief which is no segregation in schools. you want the decree that would bind everyone and didn't matter if one member liked to be segregated over the same thing in the effort to put women on juries. some women might say i like it the way it is. don't change it. the release has to be the same for every member of the class. that is what it was meant to deal with and not money claims. the claim in walmart is we want injunction relief and back pay. the court thought the driving force in that case was the money. most of the women in the class had already left walmart and the

injunction -- everyone wanted the money and so did the lawyers. we said this class is fit for b3 classification and we were unanimous. you couldn't take a class action rule that dealt with money claims and injunction relief claims and try to shove the money claim into the injunction relief. >> everyone is standing up but i will ask two more questions but before i do want to thank everybody for helping me prepare for this interview. my staff at the center like linda greenehouse and hillary hardcastle and mary little,

susan williams and my gender in law class. my two last questions. what is your favorite comfort food? [laughter] >> marty made so many wonderful things. to pick out one thing, i don't know if you would call it comfort food but the ambassador of france to united states had dinner with us and said marty made the best baguettes. he baked his own bread. >> my last question is what would you like to see as your legacy on the court? >> i would like people to think

of me as a judge who did the best she could with whatever limited talent i have. she keeps our country true to what makes it a great nation. and to make things a little better than if i hadn't been there. >> i would like to thank you for all you have done on behalf of women and working so hard to keep the court a respected institution. thank you. [applause] >> next on c-span2 virginia governor bob macdonald.

arne duncan talks about the benefits of a longer school day and afl-cio president richard trumka on jobs and the economy. on tomorrow's washington journal george mason, economics professor garrett jones on government spending and jobs. discussion about gay rights with brian wilson of the human rights campaign and washington times congressional bureau chief stephen diamond on a bill to create a database to check workers' legal status. washington journal begins at 7:00 eastern on c-span. >> the head of the american association of university professors says tenure and academic freedom are in jeopardy and need to be protected. >> tenure creates an atmosphere where people can speak friendly not just in teaching but in terms of university governance. if you don't like the proposal of the board of trustees or the president makes you have to

speak freely. administrators should do that as well. the shared governance speech is part of what academic freedom protects. without that you don't have the expertise of the faculty available. >> kerri nelson, author of the university is an island sunday night on c-span's q&a. >> oral argument is the first time justices talk about a case together. when justice antonin scalia or justice ginsburg asks the question i can figure out what is bothering them about a case. >> by law the new supreme court term begins the first monday in october. each year hearing 70 cases. this year cases include gps tracking without a warrant. profanity on television and copyright protection. watch recent appearances around the country on line at the c-span video library.

is washington your way. >> virginia governor and chairman of the republican governors association bob mcdonnell spoke at a fund-raiser in new hampshire. he criticized president obama's economic policies a new hampshire and virginia made a mistake voting for the president. back in august governor mcdonnell said he would be interested in running as a vice-presidential nominee. this is half an hour. [applause] >> thank you very much. thanks, bill. appreciate the opportunity to be here. thanks for all the work you did putting this together with chairman >> -- mcdonnell. it is great to be back in the granite state. the last year campaigning for

john stephen and the only race you didn't win. you are on a role in new hampshire. i am here with my wife, first lady of virginia. belated she was able to come with day. and my chief of staff phil cox. what a thrill to be here. you run every two years and have no term limit. i got one, four year term and i am out. i love the way you do democracy in new hampshire. little bit of a homecoming for us. my wife and i honeymooned in sugar hill in 1976. this is the first time we have been back three days after we got married i took her to the top of mount lincoln. almost the shortest marriage in american history because it was

40 degrees and raining and she thought what have i gotten myself into? 35 years later we are delighted to be back. i can't figure out why all these people are here. you got an election going on or something? i am really jealous because in new hampshire you get to see all the candidates four five times. we get mail and e-mail in virginia so you're very fortunate. i want to say there are a lot of great people here tonight. i want to recognize the terrific work. 24 days into the job thank you for your good work bringing the party together. [applause] and my good friend kelly was going to be here. we served together. last year 60% of the vote. great job.

and congressman charlie bass said and congressman frank. happy birthday. i understand it is his birthday today. we have the senate president and speaker bill o'brien and majority leader bettencourt and senate majority leader bradley. the fact the we made those introductions tellus you are on a role in new hampshire. through two congressional races and veto-proof majorities in both houses. what a terrific job. you still got some things left to do. you still have a mission for next year. i almost canceled coming today because you had the audacity to send the university of new hampshire of football team to beat the university of richmond 45-43 this weekend.

[applause] but i am here. new hampshire and virginia have a lot in common and i will tell you those things. we were two of the original 13 colonies. we have an incredible view of freedom. in virginia patrick henry said give me liberty or give me death. that was the first governor of virginia. jefferson and henry and mcdonnell. they are the ones i like to talk about. new hampshire is live free or die. we are glad mr. jefferson gave that understanding of liberty. you love nascar. tony stewart fans feeling good about race in virginia. you guys know how to create jobs. there is nothing more important in america but you have the

lowest unemployment rate east of the mississippi. we are a little behind you at 6%. you understand what it takes to get people to work and have access to the american dream because with the leadership of speaker o'brien you are pushing to make new hampshire a right to work state like the commonwealth of virginia. [applause] and we have something else in common. we are both realizing we made a big mistake in 2008 because both our states went for president obama. i hope you are ready to fix that problem next year in new hampshire. [applause] let me give you one other goal which is how important it is to win the governor's raise next year. you got every office except the corner office and it is time for

a change. what a great opportunity we have got. [applause] you have bill and kevin and jeb and john and other candidates looking to take office. i am here to tell you michael cox is here. we knew it would be a race we could win before the governor stepped down but with great competitors we are going to be here in new hampshire. we know new hampshire and missouri and north carolina and montana and washington state are all states we can add to 29 governors we have got. that is important because we need to talk about federalism. it is the states that are the laboratories of democracy and all power does not reside in washington d.c. and governors

get that. you have a balanced budget and results and have to fix problems and not get excuses and the way we see this president doing things in washington. you can count on us being here over the next 14 months to win the governor's raise. are you ready to get that done? i hope you are. [applause] you five for more talk to the governor. that the fire in your belly because we are ready to help you. we have some challenges in this country. this is the greatest country on earth. we are blessed to be americans but we have a country that is facing some tough issues. we are $14 trillion in debt and

clearly heading to 20. we are the risk of being more in debt than any other time. i have five kids in virginia. that is the last legacy i want to pass on especially when i was raised by members of the great generation that survived the depression and fought the second world war and triumphed over tierney and they handed us a marvelous place called america. we have but 9.2% unemployment rate. tens of millions of americans don't have access to the american dream so they depend on government. that is too much heartbreak. no coherent national energy policy to rely on red, white and blue energy to get our way out of this and create the engine for the greatest country in the world. it is time for a change.

that is why i am excited to be here. we have to do everything we can. virginia and new hampshire reversing the trend. you only won once in the last 20 years. we won every year the last 46 for last year but we will work together with you being the granite state, first primary that you can send a message we are ready to win again. i know the difference it can make if you have good people that get it when it comes to making freedom great. free enterprise and the american dream and american exception alyssum. you see what scott walker and rick scott and adkins -- chris christie and others are doing. they got into office and made tough calls and set priorities and cut spending and honest with people about what we can afford and their states are turning around. that is what republican governors do.

let me tell you the virginia story. i came into office with a $4.2 billion budget deficit and 1,000,000,008 in the previous carrier budget. my predecessor governor king left me this marvelous person. $2 billion tax increase. we said we are not raising taxes. we will figure out how to cut. we will set priorities and the priorities were reducing spending to 2006 levels but at the same time investing in job creation and high re-education. the stuff that matters in the long run to create the american dream for young people. principals like that work. six months later we had $4 million budget surplus and in 2010 we announced a $545 million budget surplus. conservative fiscal principles work in the states and can work in the united states to make sure we are solvent for future

generations and that is what republican leadership means and why i hope you will get this job done in new hampshire. 400 years ago something incredible happened. 144 men and boys landed in cape henry, virginia. i know you are in new england and you think plymouth rock is where it started but we want to get history right. 13 years earlier the settlers landed in jamestown. they opened the charter king james wrote and said this is about free enterprise. it is about taking risks, working hard, partnership with the king and settlers working hard and when they planted at jamestown and massachusetts shortly after was the most

marvelous experiment in freedom and liberty and democracy the world has ever known. fast forward to the work of jefferson in 1776 recognizing that rights are inalienable. they don't come from government and government can't take them away and something we should remember when we are complaining about having to work hard for a candidate or how much time you take away from your family. they pledged their lives and fortunes and their sacred honor. if you look at the history books all of them gave their lives or fortunes for the cause of freedom before they died but none sacrifice their sacred honor. [applause] that is the legacy of this

country. new hampshire was part of the original 13. i think washington said something profound about this country that we need to remember. he expected to be remembered in the first inaugural address. i grew up on mount vernon and am partial to george washington. that is why they call virginia the mother of presidents. you had one and we had eight. the first president said in his inaugural address the propitious miles of heaven can never be expected to remain on a nation that disregards the rules of order and rights that heaven itself. there are things that are absolutely right and wrong about the way you order your government. to the degree you have strength in the private sector and try to unshackled the genius of the american on for burn or and promote freedom and liberty and don't have one size fits all bureaucracy that we have seen

the last couple years you have a prosperous society in which to live. dragons said it differently. after he chastised congress for spending too much he said spending is like a baby's elementary canal. it has insatiable appetite on one end and no responsibility on the other. if you don't know what the elementary canal is ask one of your neighbors who laughed. he said america is the last investment for mankind, the shining city on the hill. i believe that and that is why you are here tonight. we have a lot of work to do to put the shine back in the city on the hill. it will take a republican governor in new hampshire and republican president in the united states and i am here to work with you to make sure we do

everything we can to make that ? >> the formula will include:. it is what the legislature is

doing. you keep taxes and regulation and litigation to a minimum and try to get a right to work law passed so you can have freedom of contract between employer and employee. and you keep great universities and infrastructure so business can thrive and keep the american dream alive. the formula is not -- i look at it when your car is broken you look the owner's manual. when your country has problems you look in the owner's manual for your country. that is the constitution and declaration and foundational documents. they laid it out pretty well. when it comes to jobs we are doing pretty well. there have got to be some other questions or comments. half of you told me you are from

virginia. >> i am concerned what is happening with education in america. >> ten other governors, the nbc forum on education and we had some different views on that. for the longest time we equated outcomes in education with how much we spend. most people agree it is more than that. will look at the asian companies beating us at our standardized scores in math and science and other disciplines that lead to china growing for 20 year that 9%. they have a very rigorous curriculum in those core disciplines and they have inculcated in their young people an amazing work ethic. we have to focus more on getting results and tying education with job creation. one thing we did in virginia was pass a bill to create 1,000 new

degrees in our higher education system but focusing on things that create jobs. we funded it partially and add more to it this year but if you are not training young faithful to believe in american exhibitionism and to have the skills necessary for a good job, career or college ready by the time they graduate we are failing these young people. we need more rigor, more accountability and more focus on getting results. not just on spending money. [applause] >> thank you for being with us this evening. what do you feel are the key areas where we need to pay attention to ensure the removal of president obama from the oval office? >> this is the question you are talking about.

what do we need to do to win next year? you have got to be on the right message and the right message is how do we get the greatest nation on earth out of the unsustainable level of debt and deficit that have been run up in this country in the last 30 years and that means the honest with people who are managing their own budgets and balancing their own books to say you do the same thing with the federal budget. that is why i think the next president -- really good if they were a governor because we have to balance budgets every year, no excuses and i see a couple of view -- you got to have a message about restoring the free enterprise system. i can't tell you how many people are in business saying i have cash on the sidelines and scared about investing in the next job or the next $10 million capital

expansion because there's so much uncertainty and unpredictability in washington and doing so much for regulatory excess they can't get past in congress like this decision on boeing that i am afraid to invest. look at the stock market. look what is happening with jobs being shipped off shore because there's more stability abroad than in america. with american energy independence and fiscal responsibility and kindling our belief in the american dream and american exceptional is that is the winning message. that it takes a bunch of shoe leather. the next 14 months you are the stakeholders for the battle to win the white house. you got to work hard and want it. you can't get tired. i don't care if it is 20 degrees in november or 100 in august you

have to knock on doors and do the other things to create the energy in your state precinct by precinct to tell people this is what is wrong with our country and our message will fix america for future generations. i think that is the winning message. >> what is the pledge? >> ladies and gentlemen, let's pledge the greatest flag. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. thank you. >> we give you what we have. we don't have oil. we have jobs and maple syrup.

>> i have virginia peanuts for everybody. >> i know you are friends with rick perry. how badly did he hurt himself last week. >> for three weeks. he is a very good and accomplished governor. part of the record on creating jobs and controlling spending and at the end of the day this won't be an election about personality. it will be about issues. the american people are hurting. with this debt and deficit and unemployment, people will forgive when they think is an inferior performance if someone is right on the issue. table end up being right at the top of the polls with cal was debate left. the only thing that matters is what happens at a couple months and shortly after that in other states. he has a long way to go.

>> and a prime candidate? >> there are a lot of them that would be an excellent president or an improvement over the lack of leadership and coherent plans on jobs and spending and energy we currently have in the white house. i think these candidates will get better over time as they continue to debate one another but they have records of accomplishments on things that matter. that terry and -- rick perry and mitt romney -- i hope the vice president would be a current or former governor because they can't make excuses. they have to balance the budget and that is what we're missing in washington and they have to bring people together. i have done that in richmond. i have got a democratic senate and a republican house and we find ways to knock down the

rhetoric and get people to get things done. washington you have a toxic environment. i don't think he is leading or finding ways to knockdown partisan walls and get stuff done which is why governors would do better. i am partial to governors for. >> and the virginia governor? >> no. no one is thinking that except for you. it is fun to have you asked questions. the only thing nine republicans care about is how they will get the nomination and they will worry about that. >> have you had discussions with those you mentioned about sharing a ticket? >> they are not focusing on it. only pundits and leaders in the press because it is interesting. i think it is completely the decision of whoever is the standard bearer for the party and they will bring someone in who they feel could govern from

day one and it helps. i have got what my predecessor called the job there is no higher honor being governor of virginia. that is a pretty good gig. i have a priority being here in new hampshire and other states i mentioned elect more republicans governors. we should be have 33 or 34 next year. that is my mission and i am thrilled with that. >> there are rumors your stay was part of the deal to get rid of jack kendall as state chairman. >> that must be something the democrats cooked up. i am here because i was invited by the republican party to come and speak because they know winning the republican governor's race next year is important. i am thrilled to be back in my honeymoon stay. >> mitt romney called you after

governor rick perry -- >> i called him. >> will he be coming to virginia? >> i would love to have him come. i invited him several times. i would love to have him raise money and help win these elections. we got all the legislature rupp in 44 days. we are trying to work out dates but he has an open invitation. >> we make an endorsement? >> not before the november election. i will see what happens but i am not in any hurry. being the republican governor chairman -- what is more important is the endorsement they get from a large number of the american people as opposed to individual governor's. i keep an eye on it and i am monitoring how they do and how they express ideas that are important. >> any interest moving your primary up?

you may point in your speech -- >> democrats and republicans had an agreement to get penalized in a number of a electoral votes. we are on supertuesday. ..

said she planned to use red, white and blue energy to promote american security and then have a comprehensive plan that will be honest with the american people about how to get us out of debt and reduce the deficits in short order. i think that is going to dominate the selection. this would not be an election that hope and change her personality or who can get the best beach. it's about who can get us out of the serious problems america faces today. people are hurting you can't find a job and are in debt come in the american dream feeding the businesses are scared about investing or hiring the next employee, c-series policy election. i think the candidates in the party that focuses on this key issues would be the one to win next year. >> are you going to do the key job growth in virginia when once the stimulus bigot runs out. virginia is one of the highest per capita areas and i only know this because my brother-in-law

and sister-in-law live in arlington. they go yeah, no wonder there's all these jobs because regaining some of the highest. >> stimulus has already essentially for now. we at the third lowest east of the mississippi. of course you're one here in new hampshire as i pointed out before. we pretty much already fractured by then. isotype 2006 spending levels when it became evident last year, to the tax increases. there's no question question the stimulus spending helped most states in the short run, certainly agree with that. the problem is he built that many in the base operating budget and a horrible problems down the road, which is why we cut it. we pretty much flush all that out. we received a significant amount of money overall from the federal government and defense spending. i'm concerned about that for a stay. it's one of the reasons in the budget this year i allocated $30 million of the surplus to create a new contingency fund.

but here's the bottom line. we are broke in this country. we are 16 trillion now and that with this extension is it the debt limit. >> 15.2. >> okay. the clock is still ticking. it's going to go to over 20 trillion. it's an unconscionable and unsustainable level of debt eared and so, i think what the american people expect his candor. they are doing it with their own books. they want candor and someone's going to say look, there's no way to get ourselves out of this unless we have dramatic spending virtually every area of the federal government and that includes medicaid, medicare and social security. the entitlement programs are creating part of the reason that we are in this unsustainable amount of data. but here's the plan to do that. yes it's going to take shared pain from everyone to get out of this and i support that. so i now and i became a cut in

federal spending -- proportionally affect virginia. but we're ready to take that. that's where starting right now already planning for a long-term shift in part of the northern from a defense of the federal government reliant economy to other things. >> can take 30 more seconds and talk about job creation initiatives you are talking about tonight, where young people are trained differently. >> absolutely. they were coming back to 2006 spending levels i asked for $100 million. over the last two years and job credit programs and significant money for the governor's opportunity fund to get cash incentives to business. as biotech tax credits to build a stimulate growth with the second highest tech job state in the country behind california. i got money for trade offices in shanghai, london and in mumbai, india. i don't shanghai earlier this year paper going to mumbai in a couple months. until the virginia story, the

american story around the world of morality starting to have deals with china as a result of the trips. it's a lot of things, but ultimately if you don't have policies to keep taxes and regulation komatsu slow and don't try to have a right to work well, it's very hard to convince businesses to move to your state. i think that's why we've been ranked now this year is the most business friendly state in america fail the surveys because we've kept a good overall climate so people want to const. thank you are very much. i appreciate it.

>> this is a dangerous time for britain and a dangerous time for britain's economy. the government austerity plan is failing. you can sense the fear people have as we watch the economic crisis that stops our country in 2008 threatened to return. this is not

>> education secretary, arnie duncan in new york state john king spoke at a discussion on the benefits of lengthening the school day and the school year. the event included release of a new report, looking at the impact of longer school days on end teacher performance. the center or american progress of the national center on time and learning host this 90 minute

event. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning and welcome to the center for american progress. in sydney bound to the vice president for education policy here at the center and we are so happy you've been able to join us this morning for what we think will be pretty interesting event. and we're very pleased that secretary of education, arne duncan is joining us today, along with new york commissioner of education, john king and our partners and expanded learning time from the national center on time and learning. chris gabrielli, jennifer davis and claire coplin. all of you have been bold advocates for lengthening the school day or the school week or the school year as a catalyst to turn allow more performing schools. there is no denying that the momentum for expanded learning

time is building. we are seeing activity at the federal, state and local levels and much leadership from school leaders. today we would hear from leading experts about how schools across the country has successfully expanded learning time, highlighting the most successful models the best part is this. they are seeing remarkable results, but in the interest of time i'm going to have to report author cheryl pettitte is. during our coffee table discussion in a few moments we'll also talk about what policy levers in action can be taken at the federal state and local levels to encourage more schools to take on this proven strategy to increase student achievement. it is clear that schools across the country are eager to increase learning time and thanks to no flexibility, new flexibility under the no child left behind act, state leaders have another opportunity to expand learning time. state granted waivers will be

released in certain requirements of no child left behind in exchange for taking on certain reforms, one of which includes increasing the meantime. we are so fortunate to be joined today by secretary duncan, who is a longtime supporter of expanded learning time, pushing for in chicago turned a during a 7.5 year tenure as ceo of the chicago public schools. as a student in chicago, secretary duncan spent afternoons and his mother is tutoring program that worked there during the year off from college. he credits the sixers are shaping understanding the challenges of urban education anything you probably planted the seed for understanding the kids need more time for learning. under his leadership, department of education has continually included opportunities for expanded learning time in federal grant programs, promoting it as an intervention in turnaround strategy. so mr. secretary, thank you for being here. the floor is yours.

[applause] >> thank you so much. i've thrill to be here. i want to leave time for good q&a. this work is very, very personal as cynthia said. we all know, everyone in this room who knows if we are serious about closing the achievement gap, trainer and underperforming schools, can't keep doing business as usual. the factory school calendar is based on the agrarian economy is stunning to me and the fact we've been so slow to note is absolutely unacceptable. what this report helps to demonstrate in a very concrete way you suggest a good idea theoretically. if getting results. you have other assistance to schools in places like massachusetts, head of the union in massachusetts yesterday in the head of the event on the ninth, whether its great chart organizations like john king ran

in his previous life, where students are working 25% to 30% more time day after day after day. that's quality time. that's going to make a huge difference in their lives. and we have to do it now not just to close achievement caps, but opera students compete level playing field with counterparts across the globe. right now china and india, children in china, other places going to school, 30, 35, 40 more days in our student and her students are talented, creative and of interest anywhere in the world. we are not given a chance to be successful. if you're a sports team practicing previously, the other five days a week am against is going to win more often than not? so i want to thank the team here in the center for time and learning for their extraordinary work. the author claire kaplan is a good friend of mine. a fantastic report. claire has let this work and she along with my sister and i and a group of volunteers for an

afterschool program in chicago for six years and we saw how the time from 3:00 to 7:00 or 8:00 at night that made a difference in the lives of students they didn't have opportunity. this is not just her students, the teachers. teachers do not tend to plan, think about it day had come to collaborating figure was working and not. this is not a time for academic enrichment although it's very important. this is a time for dance and drama sports and music. they should be school days. schools have to have such long hours. we have to bring a nonprofit partners, social service agencies. reduce community hubs, community incurs in for far too long high schools have kept the community of we have to break down the falls. i'm wary of in every neighborhood of our country, rich, poor, black, white, latino, 95,000 schools. playoff classrooms with the vast

majority of computer labs. they have libraries, james, some have pools. the stumble onto the principle that the engineer or to me. does want to the community. in every neighborhood of this country to factor in not using them and more creatively systemically is a real challenge. so we have been far too slow to move as a nation he had a two fielders in the sense of momentum. you're starting to see great chart that works grayscale. you can come in different ways. easy states like massachusetts or to go to scale using tight in different ways. give 20 schools produced and been turned around, being used in different ways you folks start to get how important is this. we want our flexibility to waiver process. what resources, school improving grants, $4 billion, hardly used the money to get my time after school, weekends, summers, whatever it takes. we want to be a better partner and please challenge is to do that. the final thing is we don't need

to study this issue anymore. we don't need another study and further reading. we know far too many other nations and people get to a certain point by june thanks to the teachers hard work and commitment come back september for the behind and then they left. we have to do some in about it. does every child made a huge amount of additional time? honestly, not necessarily. for the class children can go to the park and museum or ballet or two at piano lesson after school and that's okay. on a targeted basis, going to children communities aren't the norm in students don't have this kind of chances in tough economic carnesecca's come you can't do everything for everybody. for the children ate the most upcoming state desperately important resource is an underutilized, untapped. when she thank you for your leadership on this so we could move the country further, faster. we are really too close achievement gaps. students not just in this country, but across the globe. thank you so much.

[applause] >> things come in mr. secretary for getting us up to a good start. not deterred back over to chris gabrielli, chairman of the national center in tandem learning come in the country's leading policy research and advocacy organization unexpanded time. chris cofounded massachusetts 2020, a nonprofit organization to expand economic and educational opportunities for children and families across massachusetts. after they gained remarkable statewide expanded learning 10 initiative, massachusetts 2020 kurds were to include districts across the country through partner organizations, the national center in tandem learning. i see you read here. chris co-authored in 2008 book with warren goldstein, entitled time to learn. how a new school schedule is

making smarter kids come happier parents and safer neighborhoods. this is a traffic resource for policymakers and district leaders as they think about redesigning the school day. chris is also currently a part-time lecturer at the harvard graduate school of education and chris is going to present the new report. so take it away, chris. >> thank you, cindy. and thank you to john podesta and you have the american center for progress. it's been a wonderful partnership over these years and an advanced lease patcher of the day at the time and learning with the mosh with the late senator kennedy and partnership and we appreciate what a win-win that is then. secretary duncan can thank you for that enough this morning. in thank you for your extraordinary leadership joy in life is setting the pace on this

real change. john king, fran from las vegas and import national leader is here and i do want to also call out the whole team. claire kaplan is the person who did the bulk of the work along with roy thomas in the background to get the privilege of presenting it. we think are funders for this, it public foundation and carnegie foundation represented here. let me get into it after going through those tanks. and of course the key is a .23 plays. and something happens. there we go. so just as an introduction, we have an ambitious vision. who doesn't? but we do believe that because in particular of exciting federal support that is really hope the change happen at a time that might seem otherwise difficult, equally seen a million children in schools take

advantage for every student every day as possible. we were directly to affect practice to market a schools in massachusetts and other parts of the country. we spent time trying to foreign policy as we were today we work hard to research and share knowledge about what really works, to save people the reinventing of the wheel. before going into details of the report to release the headlines of the report, let me give an update on the state of the expanded learning 10 movement. we particularly focus on schools that have added significant time, often an hour and half or two hours a day for all students in a school as a permanent part of their strategy. so not some kid sundays, some years maybe. all kids come every day, just a schedule of the school. if you try to put the aircraft in 50 years ago to be close to zero. in a couple schools here and there you can argue. how did we get 2000 schools represented in many of the states of the country?

i would say there've been these three policy enablers. first of all, school autonomy is commodious charter school to represent majority of schools on this map or whether represents district and other policies that allowed schools to make their own decision about how much time is needed. teachers generally come especially serving high property kids know they don't have enough time out to meet their needs. it overwhelmingly respond they don't have enough time to cover curriculum and meet the needs of every student. so when they get the chance to have something to say about that, they often are the strongest advocates among the school leaders for a schedule that fits what students need, not what this traditions. district initiatives. a number have decided on their own this is an important policy. sometimes part of turnaround, sometime beyond that. secretary mentioned houston come a program that's gone gone there in done quite a day. chicago, placing a something about his taking on both the question of arne duncan at 90 minutes for every school in chicago to what is now one of

the shortest stays in the country. district initiatives have mattered. state initiatives. part of our role in leading state initiatives in scale, but a number of other states are now asking most recently colorado and import new commission report, what can we as a state do to change the game so schools can adopt these practices. most critically and recently, the federal support and requirements in the turnaround program and opportunities for the waiver program we hope are in the future is for enough as he said, secretary duncan of the federal resources and we are very eager to give states and districts to focus on taking advantage of opportunities to trade to change schools in this report illustrate. i want to emphasize. your position is time solves everything. at 90 minutes and every kid will be not successful. we do not believe that. we think is a resource, not a strategy. many's the resource, autonomy resource, lots of resources and

it clearly all depends on whether they are used well. the title of this report is time well spent. the commissioner in massachusetts likes to say anything worth doing can be done poorly. the schools in this report are highlighted for schools whose practices get those transformational games that motivate all of us here today. so we emphasize the resources in the practices together that lead to these transformational games. so for this report, our colleagues went out and said let's take advantage of everything we've learned over number fears helping schools plan to convert to expand 10 status in massachusetts and beyond pupils at the schools that have done it with almost an unquestionably strong result for children and that's refreshing understanding of what is a good schools to ban the use expanded time? had to vacate those results? there were a few things that surprised us, a lot of things

that employers were able in this report to provide a lot of really specific examples and willingness individualized color to let you get a flavor for what exactly is school does when they turn time into outcomes for students really want. when he handed it to mix of schools from across the country. 11 states represented here. the mix of charter schools, elementary, middle schools, high schools. that's pretty small small schools can a few very large schools. we intentionally try to distribute this would be all about what type of school uses more time. because there's different schools, to use it differently. there's not one single family untreated formula here. i do not violate the very successful schools. the prototype examples here. i believe the academy's principle is here. could you leave your hand? thank you for being here today. [applause] 26 points higher on your map proficiency rate in your

community is a relatively new school and challenge community is the kind of outcome are looking to see. it's not just about academic outcomes. as important as those are comments about getting into and sticking through college. it's impressive to see the school in texas and 97% of the students who enrolled in college. so they don't have a graduation rate yet, but it's pretty promising. these are schools in this dimension, academic can attain the ways really stand out. this is a complicated fight, but what i want to add people ask if it's just test scores? as important as the sarcomas that all of this? we've been able to ask a question that something pretty important, fundamental belief in attitude. character is a prominent psychologist who developed the idea of a mindset. lest you think if that doesn't

apply to you, probably there's no one in this room wasn't some thing like i'm not good at that word really can't sing or not a good bs or anything assisting my abilities are fakes. it doesn't matter if they try because they will get better. there's a secret mindset this is the harder you work the better you get. and she has shown that children with the same level of actual ability can be moved towards the growth mindset and subsequently the two better. why? when they encounter failure, they don't see the suggestion of themselves. it's what you expect while you're working hard to get better. it's exciting to see three schools representative, to the report and a couple of examples. all of the very intentionally devote time to the processes necessary to convince students about school culture and accountability for themselves and ability to succeed and adults to help them get their. the schools we touch on what the

processes are, and just when you're cutting students start to significantly grow the percentage of students arrived at their doors come off in thinking abilities are fixed. that's exciting because that's a change in fundamental attitude that matters to rip kirby student. that negates the model we present here. the most important thing in a way we can highlight to you in addition to actual practices is his trademark. we argued therefore interlocking gears to drive the success of the schools in that absence all four gears working and working together machine, you will not necessarily get the results you want. those four are time and of course time is really big in the middle of the site, but we don't think the other three are less important. the other three are people, data and school culture. i want to briefly point out how they intersect. time obviously we think school should not have time to assure the year before worse for the

best in scheduler of the expectations. they are two of the time for licorice and well-rounded education and i'm really glad you called out the point about the well-rounded piece as well to prepare students for success. that's why the timepieces so crucial. what does that have to interact with? it has to interact with people. policy of the leadership of instruction essential. before you think that an independent fact your, one of the greatest quotes is from the leader of the school considered one of the best in the country says we can't hire great teachers. we can ip want to be great teachers and if we have a lot of time he can help them become the great teachers they want to be. many schools are three times the average of the district around them in professional days independent of students. many teachers come back earlier than students and prepare for three weeks before the start of the year and so forth. what do they do that? said there is time for teachers to work and collaborate and improve their craft.

as the improve, of course the use of better. data is absolutely crucial. these are schools that are religious and devotion to believing we need to know what were doing company to measure continuously constantly attack. but that itself takes time. they often have a few questions they give to students every day is that these to find out if they learned today, the concept is. africa permit assessments to find out how they're progressing. but they don't just take the time to collect that i'm a teacher time to analyze it, dt can do it on it. they know about every individual student. that is central to good use of time. lastly a school culture. so the time to build a culture of high exit patience for students and staff who ultimately family and community and makes everyone the lives of everyone in the building is an essential part of the success. the students with the growth mindset is the time available to

them better because they believe the time they can improve. each of these are mutually catalytic and are together with a magical mix interview. the report lays out a powerful practices and within each of those practices because three specific strategies. 24 keys to success and therefore cannot develop the next hour and have -- now, please read the report. it's thorough, exciting, illustrated by individual schools. we divide these into three buckets in the leadoff of the report will be appears you can get an who want to learn about. bradley gave on tube optimize content for student learning, obviously the center of the bull's-eye here, but also using the time to students during school and beyond, just as a simple example would be read with high schools in the report due to prepare kids to go on and succeed in college and become aware of careers and so forth, they devote really significant amounts of their school day to

that task in addition to the other things they're already doing. of course as we emphasized comments about teachers and their opportunity to use time off with a success, not just students. if i were to boil it down in a way that would drive the report authors crazy because they put all this effort into not boiling it down, i would boil it down to more than anything else, with more time, schools can break away from the factory model of doing the same thing for every kid in hoping it works for enough of them to deeply individualized education, whether it's the academic support such as getting the areas that need it most, whether it's allowing children to find something that excites them out at traditional curriculum, arts, music, sports, robotics, you name it nonelected exposure, the mastery is a real big difference. whether it's letting adults develop in their teaching areas they most need, so without the opportunity for individualization aboard time

permits. so this is a policy audience. we are releasing a report in washington d.c. there certainly schools here, we chose to do with the policy context because it will work with in the report, please read this report you should want more but this is and i appreciate your point that the time and i share the view that the time for wondering whether this can work is definitely over. the only question is how quickly can we bring its life. i think we need to focus on these three policies. the first is, how do you enable the launch of more new and conversion expanded learning time schools? is a demand out there come a sense people have not quite sure how to marshal the resources, how to solve political and logistical challenges of change. that's crucial and i think the federal move is a very important opportunity in states and districts to do so. was choosing to go forward, we think the support is crucial. schools do not necessarily know how to do this on their own, even if they have desired, they need to plan and support of

goodwill models which help support and their website is full of much greater detail for anyone who wants to go there. and lastly, it's important to hold schools accountable to use this time off. we titled the report time well spent and our mission is to see schools to have the opportunity and will to do this and remember if they get this chance to have this much more precious resource to go after this, they need to do with schools in this report to come witches give kids a chance to succeed. thank you for the opportunity to present the report to you this morning. [applause] >> i want to invite my fellow panelists. secretary, jennifer, commissioner king. all saddam and chair. i just want to introduce you all and then we'll get to about this. and a little bit more informal

way. the thank you, chris for presenting the report. it's really terrific. we're going to talk about it now. so we have a great set of panelists who will bring a unique due to this discussion. so let me start by briefly introducing them. their full bios are printed on the agenda and on the table outside and can also be found on our website. so we are very lucky to have the new york commissioner of education, john king, join us today. i think we can all understand what a huge undertaking it is to oversee education in new york state. he is not one to shirk from their jobs. earlier in his career, dr. king served as a managing director for uncommon schools, nonprofit chartered management organization that operates some of the highest performing urban public schools in new york and new jersey. prior to joining uncommon schools, that king was cofounder and codirector for curriculum

and instruction of roxbury preparatory school in boston and those that does the schools feature expanded schedules. truckers have been leaders in expanded learning and i hope dr. king -- a column john really. we sit together another commission, will share some of this first-hand knowledge with us today. jennifer davis is president of the national center and tighten learning and works closely with chris. jennifer is held positions at the federal, state and local levels but it was her experience as executive dirt of boston mayor menino's afterschool learning initiative to trace her commitment to expand learning time in the school day. finally, we have claire kaplan, vice president at the national center and tighten learning and author of the report they are releasing today. she designed and led the technical assistance strategy for districts and schools,

planning for expanded learning time and has led development of the national centers knowledge center to document best practices and resources on the topic. as you heard, she also worked with secretary duncan in chicago. so, let's get started. tabloids as the first question is secretary duncan. and we're going to switch to my other night. excuse me. it's not even the first time i've done that in these events. unfortunately. so over the last two years, the obama administration has proposed several policy initiatives to increase learning time, including through the school improvement grant programs. what do you think is the future of this agenda, particularly with the federal push? >> began, i'm always impatient and i just think we have to go further than we have.

christopher disagree with your 10 years ago you saw almost no schools. today's a thousand. we have almost 100,000 schools. does every school needs this? arguably not. a much higher% of her nation schools need this to be the norm rather than the exception absolutely. so i think we have to continue to push hard, put our resources and support the work. but if we come back 10 years from now in 2000, that's simply not going to be good. >> john, you've started a couple of charter schools, have been really committed for quite some time. and you choose to take on -- to use this resource, as chris called it, of time, a key element in those schools. why did you do that? and what worked and what is your

dream now that you are responsible throughout public schools in new york, what is your dream for getting those resources used in that way, and all schools in new york? >> sure, so i'm starting? very prep, my cofounder and i have both an urban teachers and there's two things we knew would be true about the students. one is daily becoming to us behind academically because the vast majority of students unfortunately coming out of low-income schools in boston are behind academically. the second thing we knew as they were going to be coming to us from families, where they were going to be economic challenges, other difficulties make it really important to more time at school. driven by those things reorganized our school day around the jersey for students and student section address underlying skill deficits.

an english-language arts, we have one focused on reading comprehension. and not we had one focused on math procedures so we can both get it all gets, the push students thinking enough forward. and from adults and the school day. for enrichment activities like arts and so forth. so the school day was long enough, students were going home with nothing to in the afternoon, which i think is a huge challenge in their low-income communities. in terms of position going forward, what we found is that worked well for kids and they needed more. we often have activities that the school until 6:00 at night and we're pushing kids literally out the door at 6:00. so as a think about the work of new york, thanks in part to the secretary's leadership, we are trying to figure out how to use federal resources to help school districts that are struggling

financially can't figure out how they provide my time, particularly in turnaround schools and also using some of her race to the top resources to support schools reap again how they use today. >> you got exposed while this in chicago. reared in your remarks, both working in your mother's program and that little minor jibe you had of the chicago public school system. so, you spoke out recently about the chicago efforts to link to the school day pretty substantially. talk to us a little about the challenges of how did a big city like chicago and that for such a short day and the obstacles for lengthening and in the possibilities for success. i know that's a tough question. >> now, publicly the fact that chicago has added 50 large

school districts probably the shortest day is an absolute. and our children are 85% below the poverty line. 90% come from minority community. anyone who thinks we need less time, not more as part of the problem. and i was really pleased at the progress we were able to make, but chicago like every other school system is nowhere near what it needs to be, not even close. and if we don't think about the assets, the resource of time to help students not just graduate, but at schools to go onto college and persevere in college, which is perpetuating poverty and social failure. we're part of the problem. we see again, i want children southside westside chicago to complete the children in china and singapore. right now are simply not giving them the opportunity. so chicago is finally breaking through. that's one of my great regrets

is that didn't happen while i was there, but i'm thrilled that going in in the right direction. let me just make two other points. as i said before, schools can't do this by themselves. bring a nonprofit, social service urgencies pgd classes, esl classes, family literacy night for schools become the height of the neighborhood and children and parents and brothers and sisters touring together. makes it very, very hopeful about what the students can accomplish. just a point that john alluded to, one of the things that's devastating in urban communities like chicago is the level of violence on the streets. not just productive things to do after school. unfortunately, there's a devastating level of devastating level of violence and a spy for the toughest issue until the. and it's townspeople, but we basically buried a child every two weeks due to gun violence. almost none of that was at midnight or two in the morning.

of opposite her in the afternoon, five in the afternoon or six in the afternoon. our schools become a place of learning at places that are safe. without the violence. let's make our schools safe to say the children were going to switch each of the streets to face the kind of violence is just in the usable to me. >> let me follow-up on that. so, you find educators in chicago and other parts of the country, or this is an issue. philadelphia sent a terrible time at this. are they coming to see that if they don't embrace filling that time, that there's just going to be a golf that hasn't been filled. >> it's not a problem in the future. it's prevalent today than yesterday and for the past x number of years. but there hasn't been as enough of a sense of urgency. that's starting to change. the leadership of you guys collectively help to change the national conversation and again,

whether it's business community or form groups, there was paul toner, head of the association was raving about what time is doing for his teachers and for their students. the conversation is changing the questions, can we kill this much, much were rapidly than we have in the past i've >> is interest growing in new york, john craig >> it is, but i see there's two ways to think about how we move forward. one is they think we as a society underinvested area people generally and we are prepared to invest more in prisons then we are input to defend that meant by this early childhood for extended learning time with the things that would keep people on a path towards productive lives. one challenge we have is convincing citizens about what the right investments are. the second challenge is having people think differently about this code is organized now time is used. most people in school buildings,

whether educators are not our starting place is how things were when they went to school. as a set of expectations around not an things are different. maybe there's some students are small groups and tutoring. maybe there's space to leverage technology referenced in the report come in different ways to reorganize the day to create extended learning time for students. >> rate, so you see -- you talked about how you organized burning and charter schools and really moving away from sort of a traditional structure of the class day. do you see that happening in traditional public schools in new york? >> their pockets at it. certainly we have some innovative school models for the urban areas, where they are rethinking how time is used. great career at tech ed programs around the state in the rural districts to rethink how students are using time as part of their case ends in

internships and part of their day doing activities for it to work on a flight simulator. i was in a school in queens at aviation high come apart at the students repairing airplanes so they can prepare for careers in the aerospace industry. there is some examples. not enough. where cops are trying to figure out how to use resources. unlimited resources expedite the process. >> said jennifer, you have been working with states and districts across the country. what are the trends were seen around this issue? >> this very significant momentum being driven in part by the slow grant program in part because of any state leaders and district leaders are seen, whether it be from sade, added 45 minutes to all of their schools across the district. houston we heard about, boston is a significant initiative as other districts across

massachusetts. there is a momentum that's exciting. the state of colorado is that in multiple districts, significant innovations. these technology is inhabited to increase earning time that these innovative schools. they are looking that stackers scheduling models to have time for students, but not necessary at a great deal cause for teachers. they bring in partners to help staff the day. there's a lot of exciting innovation happening all over the country. and many more people are eager to experiment and look forward to waiver opportunities and other federal policies percolating through congress. all of that is exciting. >> claire, i live in this policy world and when people are not so enthusiastic about some of strained ties turnaround models or think it's too much charter base and they say well, this'll just be more at the same, the more time devoted to the same

status, you just put out a report that shows that is not the case. what are the main changes in the best since you saw? >> we found very much the contrary, that the schools are adding more and different learning opportunities for students and those opportunities they couldn't fit into a conventional school schedule. i think one of the ways come you know, the most significant ways to really provide a much more personalized and individualized education for the students. for example, many of the schools there would be a very strong focus on the core academic classes, but in addition to a core math class, students will have whole extra buck that is much more tailored to exactly what they need. they may be tough a different teacher. for example, students are struggling infractions committed teacher can group small groups of students and showtime at the students are recon. again cannot we see that through technology. a school rocketship.

a school in california uses to knowledge and learning minds that very specifically target was students need academically. a second way in which it's really something different is the full range of water under that to be decent programming that many of the schools are able to offer as mentioned before. an example actually, woodland hills, which is here as a whole program called the pathways program, where students choose select yes. many of the schools in our studies choose select does that they can participate and and these can from science, and the classes panama couric dimmick science class last industry robotics, forensics, really a much broader range of activities. >> terrific. so arne, how does extended learning time sitting with some of your other high priorities in the k-12 arena, like pushing --

helping with implementation of a common court accountability? >> well, i wish there was one thing we could do it and solve all our problems. it's not that simple. i think there's a set of things that collectively can transform educational opportunities and educational outcomes for children. and i think part of that sweet things, better training of teachers, higher caliber teachers, better curricula, better assessments, clear standards. you can do all the great work. but if you do it for, five, six hours a day in other countries to six, seven, eight hours a day, we still won't get where we need to go. in terms of what is fundamental, with what what foundational, put more creative use of time at the top of the list. i often think of which i don't think we've talked enough about yet but it's not just helping students be the best academically, but helping them get self-esteem and keep them in

school. reducing dropout rates. for every child, it may not be algebra. may not be biology, but it might be chesser did a something during those nonschool hours. and so, this is a hugely important by itself will say is this the big piece of the affair? you look at high-performing schools that are beating the odds. child after child from a year after year, grade after grade, not one charismatic teacher, but systemically they do it give us a common ingredient here? they are being very creative for every school at a time. >> and i think it is no secret that all of us were thrilled to see in your way for packets that that went out last week that you are going to allow the 21st century learning program to include expanded learning time and we went to thank you for that. and i just wondered, john, with the waivers, additional flexibility help you in meeting

the goals of new york schools? >> the secretary by the way has to leave. i want to thank him. [applause] >> i think one thing we have to avoid in the conversation about the waivers if they think people try to create a lot of false economies in the education policy debate and people have created recently a false dichotomy between extended learning time and try to focus on academic enrichment the rule of community-based organizations and schools and arts and other enrichment activities and try to say those are two separate things. i think one of our tasks as we where the waivers to make sure that people are asking, how do we use extended time to advance an instructional vision that the school leaders have been a vision of the school community and culture? that may be teachers in the school taking on a longer day.

or it may be with leveraging partner organizations. but the key is there is a coherent theory of change that drives those choices. >> jennifer, what are the trends you're seeing? the biggest policy changes really that can be made are being made, you wish were being made? >> collaboration and partnership with catherine conventional education leaders. starting in 2007 would help to design a policy framework that we feel is what the kind of framework we need to place an order to create more of these schools. that policy framework is called the time act. the time at called for a variety of things. one, it's a competitive grant program, which means that schools really have to be prepared and thoughtful about how they are going to increase learning time. it calls for at least 300 additional hours. we think that's critical because if you than tacking on 15 minute

for half an hour, we're not seeing the kind of change necessary in schools to really improve teaching and learning. for talking that increasing time in three areas. it's not just for academics. its enrichment program with community partners integrated in time for teachers is a talked about. there's time for plating. a school to go from one year to the next thing completely rethink, thoughtfully about what at the time it's going to look like without a thoughtful planning. we are not going to get to the kind of educational impact. from the call for that policy proposal, performance agreements. chris mentioned this. it's really that we feel that time is such a critical resource. funding is a critical resource that needed to get those resources to the schools that can really maximize and ensure that we're going to see the kind of educational outcomes. the framework is being talked about in a variety of ways in the context of the waiver discussions and contracts at the appropriations discussion in the

efta discussions. and we believe over time are going to see this kind of framework emerge into policy that is enacted and we think that's going to help you leverage and accelerate this movement across america and were excited about that. >> so, claire can you point out in the report that ironically those schools that had the luxury of more time really work hard to make every moment count. can you talk a little more about that irony and wit to day due to optimize learning time quite >> well, i point this out in the report, for one of the schools we visited, mastery schumaker campus in philadelphia. i was in a classroom and read up on the wall there was a sign that dotted their 90,000 minutes this year. make everyone count. i thought that was so indicative of a sort of mentality that we saw across all of these schools, where there is a sense of

urgency that even with more time, every minute really, really matters for learning. there's a lot of things that schools do to make sure that time is used well. they emphasize the importance of really engaged learning happening during class periods. so they spend a lot of a lot of time on lesson planning. teachers will really die school leaders will really make sure that classtime is used productively and while instructional leaders was that on classes and provide very frequent feedback to teachers about what's going on there. are students learning? are they engaged? party begins the minute a student walks into class. trevor ross. pratt, the school that mr. king founded, you know, you see it's really remarkable that students come in and are right on task. is a really important thing and i think we felt very strongly about it and it's one of the first practices we have because

adding more time without that sense of urgency, the sense that time really matters, which is not going to see the kind of results. >> so john, i can't resist asking you because severe bone involvement with charter schools about the sustainability of this effort and how do you keep teachers -- how they continue to have the energy year after year. this is answered in of a controversial topic called burnout of young teachers, whatever. did you develop some strategies for being more creative at the time that didn't involve one person spending tens 12 hours every day and a chunk of the weekend? >> two thoughts on that. one is we did try to make it so that teachers could see the impact of their work.

one of the things that keeps people motivated and keeps people from burning out is when they know their work is producing a measurable difference and they have time to get better at their jobs. we actually had extended time for teachers as well as for students. the teachers would come back three weeks before the school year began to work on curricula and compliance with the school year to end with performance data. with a tiny tweet to meet in teams, plan together. and that created a culture of careful attention to the practice of teaching that make teaching more satisfying. we did use community partners for some of our enrichment classes. there is some local classes from a local tae kwon do studio. and so, vocal artist talk at their art class. we tried to leverage community partners. i do worry though that it is very tiring and we do ask a tremendous amount of teachers.

and i think we are seeing in education a generational change that has affected every other sector. you know, of people in their 20s and 30s today are likely to have and i cannot remember the specifics on this, but five careers than 15 jobs or something like that. i remember whenever to maintain their college reunion, and no one i talked to but one person had been in their chosen within two years. in that one person started his own nonprofit and basically change the nature of his job every couple years anyways because it's a nonprofit group. one of the things we try to do is also to organize the school around the expectation that not everyone is going to have the same job, teaching the same classroom for 30 years and that we needed to have support in place for people to learn quickly. we need to allow people to shift roles, change grades, change positions come out opportunities to leadership roles and return

to the classroom and create the flexibility so people can stay in passion, et cetera. >> i thought you're going to try to do that would turn big bureaucracy, right? [laughter] >> civil service rules get a little more complicated. >> so what if you found about the most successful schools about sustainability and work with the staff? >> well, i think as mr. king mentioned, it is that extra teacher time is so fundamental to building that sense of morale and excitement about what the teachers are doing. it's the schools to really invest the time, gathers over the summer, on an early release day, database or teachers or and an part of an experience of helping close the achievement gap and see results on a constant basis. so that's number one. as jennifer mentioned, we also see some interesting models,

where schools are staggering schedules here there's a school in new york, brooklyn generation school has an interesting model for 200 day school year, where teachers only work the traditional 180 days, but the students are at school 200 days into the three staggered scheduling students take two times during the year take a four week intensive class with a different set of teachers, which allows them to do this. during this time, teachers have time off and they also have a week of professional development and planning time. for teaching at that school is very sustaining, interesting and engaging experience. so, we are trying to work with schools to identify more models like that, where you can do this three staggered schedule and it doesn't necessarily mean around-the-clock hours. >> i remember one of the recommendations we at the center made in