mohammed in guantanamo this trial was extremely expensive and the government is not released in the amount to the millions of dollars serious it was expensive. some of the reporters covering this case particularly for the arabic press through the bbc was sanctioning that he was the need that the fairness of this trial he had the right to speak, write to express himself, he was not taken now or hang were executed. he couldn't speak and the judge i think to her credit binge over backwards to make sure he did have those rights and there are certain rights and the court system and to that people realize in the military commission similar rights need to be afforded to those people. >> thank you for your time.

>> thank you. >> now stephane hessel, a 93-year-old former united nations speech writer calls for outrage against the world's current and economic markets which the author contends infringe upon freedoms the effort was inspired by a 2008 speech he gave to commemorate the french resistance is about an hour and a half. >> can you hear us? >> welcome to everyone here. we are so delighted to have this special event this evening with stephane hessel. i am the director to get columbia university. we are happy to welcome so many of you into tonight and it's a great honor to welcome stephane hessel as a special guest. he is here with us tonight to

celebrate and to talk about the english translation of his book which has translated into english time for the outrage published by the 12th asset group. he has of course led a long and rich and very engaged life like in on the pulse of the milestones of that remarkable life in introducing him. stephane hessel is 93-years-old country and 94 next month. [applause] he was born in germany in 1917 in the russian revolution which was perhaps meaningful for what would come in his life leader and he moved to france with his mother and brother in 1924. he grew up in an artistic

household and family friends included alexander calder and walter. he was nationalized as a french citizen in 1937 to his citizenship would be taken away temporarily when the government revokes naturalization other than granted since 1927. he began studies and just entered the economic when the second world war broke out. he was an outbreak of the sony war and was captured by german forces after the french defeat. he escaped and found his way back where he rejoined family members. there he befriended barry and fry who rearranged visas for his new wife and her parents and other french artists and intellectuals. he left france via alger to go

to london to go to of to the free french forces and in 1941 he was captured by the gestapo in paris of 1944. he was first in the world a concentration camp where he narrowly escapes a death sentence and was then transferred to several other camps during the war and managed to east cape from the train headed in 1945 where he met with american troops. after the war he joined the ministry of foreign affairs and began an accomplished career as a diplomat his first assignment in new york in the newly founded u.n. where he participated in the drafting of the universal declaration of human rights and he held a variety including the ambassador to the u.n. and the

appointed to a number of key government commissions including the high of 44 communications and the national committee on human rights. his many distinctions include ground officer and the north-south pried from the council of europe. mr. geithner ev to hessel has been an unfit for human rights and social justice within this is suffocating in favor of the document to the immigrants or the regime and has taken up the cause of palestinians as a human rights issue and a forceful critic of israel for its st. of palestinians. most recently of course mr. hessel has become front-page news as the offer not initially inspired by the speech to commemorate the assistance published in october last year i think the initial run was 8,000 copies but it became a runaway

best seller 2 million copies sold in france and translated to 30 languages and almost 4 million copies worldwide. this seems to have struck a chord in every country that it's been published and and it's inspired protest movements around troup beebee it will inspire one here, too. they have taken up their malveaux and we think the book speaks to the gender generation that's one reason it's nice to see so many students in the audience tonight. joining me tonight to interview is in plus won a magazine of politics of culture published in 2004 in brooklyn which is of course the greatest in manhattan or in new york, excuse me. [laughter]

we are so glad to have you here. [laughter] he is also a brown graduate of columbia as he holds a b.a. in english and comparative literature from 2005 to revive it also like to see brian and 12 books for publishing this book and suggesting that we invite mr. hessel to colombia this evening and thank the business school to accommodate as many people. before we begin, we have another special guest would like to say a few words about mr. hessel's book and its importance in the timeliness and the united states. the publisher and at the turn of the nation and was -- [applause] the first to write about this

book and bring it to american readers. thank you very much. [applause] >> let me be brief it is a great honor to be here tonight with stephane hessel a voice of human and conscious at a time such values are in peril. in february the nation was so proud to be the first to publish in the united states this remarkable manifesto, tiresome for outrage, and i would like to tell you that was my wisdom as an editor that led me to this publishing. the ability to deliver the best-selling list rising to the top with the moral is simple and universal. listen to your parents. [laughter] especially when you have a remarkable fall far as i do who has a fortune to be specific's colleague in geneva where he was the french ambassador to the ulin and bayh father was a human

counterpart and my father the night in 1978 when i was released on the hijacked plane and he introduced me to stephane hessel who had been at my father's home for hours giving solis and friendship and meeting him that night i knew there was good news in the school world. so decades later when my father told me about this, i knew and i moved heaven and earth to publish this in the nation because stephane's messages woven into the fabric of the nation. coumadin to the end of slavery and magazine that published the words of martin luther king, jr. and those were for a more peaceful world and stephane and, you have invested, 93 years younger than anything rf us to look at today's world and to look at the rapaciousness and understand we must engage

actively in the human and economic rights and your words inspire. i love that women in italy carry your book in protest against burroughs cony or greece or spain and to those in our country in wisconsin or on wall street and i would close by saying one of the great things you have done as a citizen of police sometimes think of the united states indonesia i am so it's especially grateful to you for calling upon us to remember the best in our history and defend its highest achievements in our case you give strength to those tied to the forces in our country intent on repealing the new deal, the great society from the enlightenment so there is a spark in the world list by you and we await your next book. [applause]

>> would you like to answer that? yes, by all means. >> [inaudible] and so many people ensure that i've known and met it is a great moment for me i can tell you frankly that in these last six months since the book has appeared and has been translated into 30 different languages spanish for instance -- am i spanish editor is one of those that makes me room all day long.

so the book is there. [laughter] what strikes me is this book which is a small book quickly read in 20 minutes you have read it. it is not very and expensive. i don't know how much it will cost year, probably not very much more, but it hits a moment and that is why i think i can be proud -- it was simple language and the young french editor to whom i owe a great deal because she really worked on it with me and made it a great success. than to have katrina translated in the nation was for me a great

moment. and now that 12 come in excellent editor, he is putting it out in a nice format -- also would is useful to have a good format -- this leads to the fact that the a media expressed is a little appeal coming i think as an important moment for many countries perhaps particularly for these united states of america which have been since the beginning of my career the country that has interested and fascinated me because it has a great responsibility in our modern world we cannot do without the united states and we must have them as a forward looking courageous country with

people who knew the problems have to be faced and have to be solved. when that is not the case one must i think be worried and worried can be held up my a young generation. so these reasons are why the book cannot at the moment -- who is leading us? is it the government, is it the lobbies, the various all the gore colin groups that run of our society and if so, what can we do to bring back something that we can be proud of? of course i started the book and the al-aribiya of thinking of my country of france and led to the

resistance in france and how the resistance had said that this year was not acceptable and that the new french government should come out after the war is over and i still feel what in france at present we have a bad president to get rid of him. [laughter] [applause] we must bring back in the french public mind progress and ideas of welfare of security, social security, and there is a lot to be done and and what it in france the book has had indeed a great success. but what strikes me and what surprised me greatly i must say is the appeal to this book and

so many countries, argentina, australia, south korea, japan, brazil, germany, slovenia, sweden and then i have to turn to all these countries. tell the people who get your as you do this evening i'm very thankful for what you have done to bring these people in this room and to tell them never give up, never be in different or think that things are running in a way that cannot be helped, that cannot be changed no, they

are very old as i am very old. even one more year now and is on the book. the book says 993. now i'm 94. [laughter] having this long period together with marvelous people but mostly having been the witness of the one great american president who has done for the eliason tree given its most important thinking of course of france to whom we owe the existence of the united nations without him there would never have been the united nations and france and brazil is the one who put it in france and that is still for ross, the

central piece in 193 countries can live together. so the surprise for me was not only in france, not only on the basis of the french resistance and the french welfare state just after world war ii but many other countries the time seemed right to look at things to be confident in the great, confident because things can be put into the state and increased because the things to fight our strong. the lobbies are strong. even the government do not resist any more and therefore the citizens, women just as much as men have to raise their spirit and bring up that will

force the government to be more effective and the laws to be less effective to be happy to have an interviewer to speak with, and on would try to answer his questions whenever he feels free to put them to me. [applause] >> thank you honored and humbled to your interlocutor and i am sorry after that inspiring

speech what might seem like a very depressing question about the united states. your book is addressed to young people around the world and asking them to the indifference to find the indignation. i would say that friends of mine on the political left field and like to rest of the world the united states has not seen the kind of outrage that we have seen in the u.k. and greece and france and north africa. and the exception of the feeling in the midwest and wisconsin and ohio. i don't know if anyone here has

been to beat i hope they can speak on the q&a. but i wonder what is going on. is their something wrong in the united states, why do you think americans have not mobilized in a way? >> to me that is a very important question. thank you for putting it to us. what makes it that this great country is accepting a series of a lack of success? yes we can understand the president should of george w. bush was a moment of great anguish and there was 9/11 which shook hard in this city we are

now and one can see right in these years there was this wall ways to iraq and australia and that was why the citizens of this country could start off accept tabare but then came an extraordinary collection in hollywood see that during the campaign are had the feeling that the american people were moving to the deutsch was moving really in a very faithful wanting to have this president and because after all we must admit that he is black and it sounded to be a difficult reference but in spite of this movement to bring him to the

white house was something to us who watched it with great interest we had the feeling that is really our america and is going to be our america tomorrow and then we suddenly felt that it didn't materialize. why? it wasn't for lack of support. i am not sure. was the lack of enthusiasm? perhaps. i think this is a very difficult country to govern, and anybody that is at the head and is not freed because there is a congress and the very able president cannot do it all but once how does the population react.

there is a lack of hearing who is the enemy. that is where i feel that my generation has been very fortunate in a way. sons of course paradoxical. fortunately i have a will, not a great fortune. fortunate for the young people to have a clear enemy. we knew who to fight and those who gave up the fight as the frenchmen did not injure resistance but those who did knew what it was and i wonder what that is what is now in this country, and can one be with the tea party that there is

possibility of with this unfortunate precedent but that's not a very popular site. it's not a fight for freedom and protest in the country it seems to me. so there is a lack of getting together to bring the kind of change that one feels is needed. and i have no explanation. i don't know the united states well enough, but my feeling is that there are great american mou movements have been in the past forward, the new frontier, the new deal for instance was something to my mind which was to the americans and also to the rest of the world.

now there is a lack it seems to me of the aid. what should the united states do and what we want also because what united states do you want, and to you know why? i think that is where the message of my little book after all speaks about the message in this little book that makes it sell more. [laughter] the message think is to say look around you, anyone of you, look around, look at what is really frustrates you, what really makes you furious, what outrages you. you will find something and when you find something, commit yourself. so many people was unfortunately i do not commit themselves it seems to me up to now but that will change like all the bad

things change in to better things and to my right it was an interesting moment, didn't last very long but it did seem that is something that outrages us why should we be run by this aspect to leaders of parliament? [inaudible] [laughter] >> the message to speak to president obama as a moment, you might agree or disagree he was elected i think specifically on a platform that was against the kind of message conveyed in your title. obama a and people from whom spoke very much about consensus about moving the past partisanship and indeed ander and rage in the american context in san equivocal political it's

good damage may be to the political discourse. what would you say to some, how would you respond to that charge this indignation is in fact the problem and not the solution? >> dahlia understood as you just said that obama wanted consensus and i also told from the beginning that he wanted a definite change. he wanted consensus on the necessary change. he didn't want to impose the change, he wanted to make it acceptable by all but he wanted to change and particularly of the key wanted a definite change against what president bush had committed during his

presidential terms and that made us happy. he wanted a different approach to the civilizations particular to the islamic world and his speech in cairo made us all very happy. yes he didn't want to impose it, he wanted consensus, but he wanted change and what makes me sad is that change she did not achieve it. he wanted the president to change he wanted us to bring some social security to millions of americans talks which must say if you look at the hillside from europe and when things in america, social security is

limited to the larger acceptance by a large number of americans it sounds crazy to have so many people who are not being supported and i think obama felt that he had to do something about that and he did do something but not quite to the end. so again, my answer is that indignation indeed is not the word he would use i think because he would use consensus or seeking consensus. but indignation had situations which are unacceptable, and among them on quote the situation in the near east, a situation that is unacceptable. i think that he was willing to try to change, and where he

apparently did not reach that change he did not call it seems to me indignation if people putting him in that dimension because that wasn't his way of looking at things. they're perhaps he is wrong. >> do you feel that he stifled the movement and that there were -- good there was indignation that he did not harness? >> he did not promise. that's the right word. i think that he tried to get things going. i don't know, not in his mind. i cannot speak for him but as long as i see what he is doing it seems to me that he does not harness the public support that he did achieve during his

campaign in order to overcome the obstacles which he wanted to overcome by the negotiation. but where he found that his election had been the making of a great movement but not of the whole of the united states and therefore, instead of harnessing those who have brought him to power and leading them stronger in the election of major changes in solving an important problem he seems to me to have given up and that i think is all the more unfortunate as the book we all agree with the enormous satisfaction which he called by an important title, "the audacity of hope t quote it is

not consensus. [laughter] [applause] >> so, i mean, in your book you mention that -- actually i would like -- people will know of especially on the political left also feel obama had given up so they've not just given up on obama but i would say on the left rural politics. there was a moment it was very inspiring, and that has dissipated certainly on a left. and so in your book you speak highly about non-governmental organizations and the importance of extra electrode policy is that, i mean, what, you see hope in that sector, here and abroad and other dangers as well and extra electron politics.

>> yes. you bring it to my mind a very central problem. how do the younger generation particularly react to the idea of politics. what do they put behind the word politics? >> they're still convinced democrat could these people who feel that the politic is there to bring less power, and now getting up into the society to the underprivileged. that is what democracy is supposed to do, and one believes that young people will feel and that is the way that their country is and should go. now, the have the feeling in

many places in france as well as many other countries and i suppose here that politics is a game that is played by people who search for power but are not interested in the wellbeing of their countrymen. it is exaggerated of course and there are politicians. i've known one for instance could definitely did not care for power and even gave it very quickly but he did care for the population of france, must say once more that i feel that that was also the case of roosevelt and i think the new deal for instance was in an effort at bringing more privileged to the underprivileged and less power to the lobbies and the privilege.

>> but, the young generation i'm afraid in many countries has a tendency to say that will not be achieved by the political party and it's time to turn to other groups. what's take advantage of something that is in deep use of the aspect of mother and i, the possibility of getting the judge quickly was people all over the world. the textbook drama i don't know, and therefore they say let's make a big movement on the task force. >> if this turns from politics, democratically run administration and government, then it is dangerous, and one should tell them you cannot change a democracy without being inside the democratic aspect,

that is the political party. in france because the new party has come up with an extraordinary title, eelg it beans year of ecology blood there. no one understands the facts. but there. they are useful and they break and saying and we left after the electorate of course and we are more and pertinent than the socialist party and we will be a party there for people won't be able to vote for us and that is only to grow and achieve. that i think is the way the little message of my book should

be. and at times for our community outreach not a fight of politics. it must be inside because it never said anything about the inside to the political life when they're out i don't care and i am moving in another direction. that is dangerous. and therefore i agree with you that guinn only in the we've ngo's even if it is an important we of presuming those profits when must link it up with politicians and commitment. i hope the people listening will agree to all of that. [laughter] [applause]

>> so i wanted to speak of that may be one of his successors, the possible of the kind of movement of the base of the least part of the indignation and this is with the movement then next so-called error of spurring ann think that a not just of the year of the spring, you also -- your book has inspired a war aims to be in sync with movement in spain and the protected welfare states in increase. what do you -- amine, i'm sure what you think they found in your book but also what you see as the value in terms of the future of these movements. many of you, certainly which can protect if they want to protect and north africa and need to be the ones to create. and i do feel there is a

question of luck. i consider myself as an extraordinary lucky person. my life has been in the expression of lot including the one that would save my life after what was a great moment of unexpected flux that follows thomas and manages to save three of us from hanging. when we were in the house and then when the fields but for something that surrounds you, certainly did little book because it could have had paid thousand copies in france of the beginning of with the interests all and might sell out then that yes it was a moment when there's the french resistance and it's also some well the way through.

[laughter] and it's on spoken about the presidential victory and they have agreed frenchman. [laughter] so it in the of being a good thing for the french because this strangely enough, and it was there for the lucky moment to come and speak with so many different people. i never expected that. it came as a surprise but i must admit those. it can be a lucky surprise. i found it to be a big piece of luck that only in germany since you are not going to -- the audio which is the german is the strongest time for outrage and the third largest in germany and

thousands of other copies, so i think that goes to the fact that we live in a moment which is perhaps much more important than. it may be that our societies have become will already. that is in exchange. one can no longer try to bring important changes. one can achieve if it is still here. what i've been keeping recently without going into all the other countries and the whole global human-rights society is perhaps facing what the ninth call a threshold, a moment where deep changes which we do not give yet are going to change the

egotistic mass and i usually don't pick him up man and man also of power and higher to the true -- velte considering whether that is at the important. maybe efiks would certainly arius in our society. and in the world's ethics i put one more word which use because i find it a better than the sympathy i would call with compassion. maybe we will reach an age of compassion where we will be more interested in and that the authors had a really good time and there is no sense of me but

it may be a metamorphic processes to whom i always refer when people tell me it's your right but what do we do about it and i tell them you read. [laughter] and indeed his book together is what he said has brought forward than a number of important minds who have shown the way. for humanity perhaps to enter a new phase of its development that needs to be radical change only political change but ethical change. ..

yet he said, it's dark. well, it's a group where we find extraordinary interesting peep of like maybe robinson, judy steve greg, there are members and they all believe, i think

that an ethical progress is needed beyond and much more than it your political one. it's a great ambition. perhaps it's an over extended ambition. but why not try it. >> i mean, how do you make an ethical change without a political change? how is that supposed to come about? reaches think ourselves to it? how is that? >> i think obviously comes about basically through education. it is a new form of looking out with the teachers teach their pupils. if it is the way for universities for research, always very angry at the way that the faculties are separated from one another and then one becomes specialist is something it doesn't know much about the rest. he isn't here for more

overreaching knowledge that has to be found and that is to be brought into du. but more importantly, i would say, if anybody -- any young person looks around him at the society as it goes, he has good reasons to be out breached because he may have the feeling that he himself may be responsible to match his responsibility may go in the direction of being exactly more aware of what can be considered what can be considered wrong. it is so difficult to get a generation out of the pure search of money, of employment, of a good car and a good home.

even a good wife is perhaps not the best day and that one looks for. of course it's better to have a good wife and a bad wife, but the interest from material goods is overreaching and thoughts come of reflection about does it really free beat me believe more and spiritual values that i believe before. that may come as a soda stranding movement. what happened to these issues in the past? very hard to remember how a religion started. i didn't strive recently i've been in tunisia and other islamic countries have a strike

by the enormous enormous importance in this country is that the prophet mohammed. when we asked them, where is your belief, and they say well obviously it's clear. we have the koran, we have the prophet and therefore that hasn't prevented them from having terrible tee remains and terrible corruption more perhaps than the other countries. but there is a basis they are. i am not calling for a new universal religion. i don't only thing monotheism. i'm an enemy of the monotheists because they think they are motto and therefore against the other modernists. and that is not the way to reach consensus cc they are. closer to obama. but a real utopia, a real train, a relocation borne by poetry and

if you are not careful, sooner or later i will begin to recite poetry, but let's leave that for later. poetry is sent to if you are imbued by it, it makes you feel necessity for position that it could tip in. and i think that may be the new feed for people to think, why should we not believe in something much more satisfied very to the mind into the heart of what we are living now. not only try to grab something from what is possible, let's quickly get a little more money here or there. that is not very amusing.

it may take some time, but it doesn't need to be a real human person. why not try to bring them too much to become human person clicks caught [applause] >> on that note, can i just ask you if you contact to us a little bit about how your own personal history informs these ideas? in particular, your book is among other things that manifesto for a return to the ideals they feel the resistance and maybe you can talk a little bit about your experience and how you think the values and principles that the french resistance were so formative for you and are still relevant today. >> yes, does somebody want to --

>> okay. >> is defined? should i answer your question? >> go ahead, please. we'll work on it, but just project in the meantime. >> right. [laughter] i feel that i have had the good fortune and i will put it as them not to say to an old friend of my father's end of myself thoughts have been is an important german philosopher and it's terribly unsuccessful during his life. he never even reached a university to your although he is much more intense than those who were used to give him a

doctorate. i met him at a time when the french resistance was still very, very small. it was in 1940. we had just been defeated as widely yes ever been defeated in june 1940. it is a real destruction of our army and never peep hole in a very, very bad moment. i have come. having been arrested by the german army, but if lightning came back to the south of france. and here i met mamie. and i said, we are going to resist. i'm going to try to meet that goal and continue to fight. and he said, well, i am also trying to go over to the united states, but i don't believe in it anymore.

i see history as some in getting worse and worse and worse from one catastrophe to another. we are now in the most sad moment of democracy he called the nadir of democracy. russia, soviet union has had a package that determines. no, no, not to go into the wall. that was very important for war and britain resisted and was mastered, but this small country could have been invaded quickly while benjamin is despondent and therefore he killed himself a few weeks later. but i said no. i believe in what to fall safely blast of war, but we haven't lost a battle but we have not lost the war.

we will continue to resist. and finally, he was wrong and i was right. and so, that brought me to the idea that this french resistance one must exaggerate its importance. general eisenhower went bad that the french resistance was the equivalent for him at 18 divisions, which is a lot. but obviously, the war was won by others and was greatly by the red army. much more deep in the entire western army. anyhow, let's continue on this idea of the resistance. the message of the resistance seemed to be valid, not only because it's always better to believe in the moment of one's own history where people were

actively fighting and proud of their fight, but also because this group of resistance workers gathered together under the leadership and sat down together and drafted actually a program for the future of france. and they drafted it needs together all of all those who had income, not any political party, but the idea of resistance. and out of that, a very interesting program. one of the copies of my book, the program is strapped it has annex. i don't know which language is 10. nevermind. the program with such problems of social security and independent press, the end of this feel validated at the financial economy, all of these

problems, which were very much inspired by pepperidge in great britain and by franklin roosevelt with the new deal. this came up in this program of the french resistance. 60 years later in the year 2004, guess that's about 60 years later, a number of friends who had informal resistance responsible people sat together and said we are not happy with the way in which france and a time that she had, not happy about the way france keeps feet out tasteful to the message of the resistance. let us bring that up. let us make a call. let us publish again this program at the resistance and

not a and if the french government does not point in that direction, we must oppose the french government. that's what pat and then we had a little moment of all different government. and so indeed, i think that was your question. is the resistance a small moment of french history, but is it significant as some name that can lead you further into making the up position in politics, not just a bolt, but resist. and that i think is perhaps also what could be the message now. we must send only being of what is wrong, but the wii in which it could be affect diddley resisted against. there you are.

>> you say in your up at the reasons to get angry may seem less clear today than they were to your generation. what are the things you see around you that they keep angry that you think are deserving of ended nation that he could be responded to as a matter of social justice quite >> yes, i will say in big nation is an important first movement. the movement is of course commitment. it's written by me and a friend, which we've called commanders. it has come out as another editor is low, also very nice and he is a very good person because the movements in this little book arguably was more directly aimed at the younger generation.

that is why i've had such great success. the other one has the definitely named at the young generation and it tells them, you must commit yourself and watch. now that it's really the question we come again to what we said before in my generation, in my youth to say it was easy to see where the enemies were, to where they are the forces one should commit oneself. that does come out a little bit and it took time for outreach. it comes out also in the other boat and it comes out very much also in books. and they do on at least indicate three very important challenges

to our society, our global society today. and i've tried to indicate amendment to as the terribly important challenge of poverty and richness. it's always been poor people in rich people in the world, but never until the last 20 years perhaps has there been such a spread. the rich are over rich coming-out tour in $100 million a year is not even strange here. and to not have $2 a day to survive is the case, the fate of millions of people in our world. that trend is insufferable and a think anybody who watches it must not only be outraged, but he must be committed. many people do something about

it. many people are working with the organizations commend those things coming unicef and so on. and that will make a little insert. what is the real organization that works for that steadily with great honor, great success, but says the united nations, which has its headquarters in this very city of new york and which is not supported sufficiently by the united states. clap back so that's the first challenge. let's go on to this i can't be for everybody leaves. the second challenge is even more obvious, but it is not

difficult to encounter. and that is the deterioration of the planet. what does that really mean? is that the climate, is that the water? is all of that. we are over exploiting our little planet. we know not that i little planet is a tiny little bit within the grave cosmos, but we also note that the only place where human genes, not even on venus or mars. therefore, we must be careful. and if we know that we know more and more every day -- it's going in the wrong direction it's overexploited. and he was really holding it back? yes, we are going to have next

year 20 years after the neocon friends of the environment a new conference on the environment. we've had copenhagen in between, but what did the government do? nothing matched. not sufficient. there is a second great challenge. and there have some hope. i have the hope that young people, when they are informed about that they become more outraged than on any other set jack. and they may feel that really do have a responsibility to do something, get together and do it. the little party in france, eent, which has as quoted for whom i regret goes in that direction. and already in a year and a half, it has been put up. it is now 10 people in the new

senate that is only very before. so apologies to prohibit this general name is they think very appropriate challenge and it can be, i think, cut up into a variety of specific challenges, whether trunking ladder or whether a claimant of sort. that is an enormous challenge. the third challenge was chased the end which has not been able to fix it is terrorism. on bad calls that there is a little passage, a small passage in my book, but there is a good book now written by john pierre about terrorists. so people are writing and doing things. how do we urge terrorism? certainly not in the way it has been approached after 9/11 by president bush.

heeding the afghans, tallow bands was not the result. make it a war in iraq was a bad mistake. but there should be ways. there should be intelligent ways of thinking, where it is terrorism stemmed from? but under circumstances where terrorists get hold of the minds of people, circumstances should be hopefully changed. so there is another big challenge. but i have no way of dirt. [laughter] >> already. i think we should turn over to questions from the audience at this point and then i do know, would you like to ask one question only do that before we think of questions or are you ready to invite questions from the audience? >> no, we should try.

>> a few more questions in reserve. a lot of people here i think what questions to ask. so please. can we do have microphones so that you can be recorded. if you could please speak into the microphone. >> thank you. in your book, you are an important author of the united nations declaration of human rights, could you say something about what you think the relevance of those are today, particularly a call for a guaranteed jobs and guaranteed income and guaranteed social services to people as the universal right for humanity in general. could you save something about your role in writing those and what she think about their relevance for today?

>> that is to be a very, very important question. i have considered to be over enthusiastic about that text. but i think the text deserves overenthusiasm. first of all, i always say it was drafted at the time when there was still an enormous relief and utopian future. it was the moment when we thought we had behind us the worst things that can happen to human beings with the second world war, with the shura as we call it now. terrible things have happened and we must know who it the accent on something which has never been put into international language and which is human rights.

the league of nation was founded to prevent war and trait to have peace. it failed, but it never thought of bringing up something like human right or wrong human beings. it was an extraordinary ambition again, again, it was not only do old love the chancellor of the united nations, which foresaw that one should draft a declaration on human rights. it was also the work of eleanor roosevelt, the president did who chaired the commission which dropped the text. now in that text, if it is cloaked in a with sympathy and not only with the critical few, it can be criticized. every text can be criticized.

but if we look at this with some sympathy, we will find in everything we still need. there is an inward to be changed. if you take the articles on social right, the right to social security, the right to a job in the right to school, it all in there. and i must admit under the pressure of the eastern countries, which have the time were members the united nations, even if some of them in the final analysis are promoting it because civil and political rights were not entirely satisfied very to them. but if you take the text as it is, i think it is still the basic instrument for anybody in the world who is now living in

the tutorial country or in a corrupt country to say i want these rights and they are there in the declaration. they were carried over into the two paths and there is a council on human rights is working on them and there is a marvelous high commissioner for human rights of south african lady, charming lady who is working on it. but the declaration it tells contains related to my mind a except that at that time, we did not realize the situation of the earth. nobody thought that there is a danger of overt flirtation of the earth. and that came only further and was stuck on confidence in the real confidence again, the

united nations and now it is said that. but far from that, which is absent of the declaration of human rights, all the rest is in their end all the rest you find an article for everything. the one article perhaps that was already doubtful at the time is the right to property. article i. don't remember, 12 perhaps. i'm not sure. that of course it property has to be protected and made secure against every danger, then perhaps the object is of the declaration will not easily be achieved. we have to live with that. [applause] >> d. of the questions?

>> would you comment -- [inaudible] i have a loud voice, but i'll use the mic. >> it's better with the microphone. >> would you comment about the team emission of resistance? i recall being in france many years ago and where there were demonstrations every week people in the streets everywhere, wherever you were there were demonstrations against the war. and also here as well. and now there are wars all over the place and people are rather casual about the fact that the wars continue the enormous numbers of people are dying and

children are sent. and enormous amounts of money are being spent. and yet, columbia university i remember lots of -- very little now. >> you think about demonstrations against such wars as the one in afghanistan or in libya or in iraq or elsewhere. no, i am afraid you are quite right. diesels are considered sort of sad. one protest makes protest to get a job or to get good schools, but one doesn't protest sufficiently against arms, weapons.

the only older did a marvelous job, handicap international who put this strongly against media minds against personnel mines. but that's a very minor problem after all. and you are quite right. it is taken for granted now that while there are wars, what can we do quite a pen that is where perhaps we have to look at the basic reform of the united nations. i always come back to me dear united nations. the united nations were set up for human rights, but also for the preservation of peace. and when wars break out, while they are at the blue helmets. my friend brian burkett was the one who gave them the name blue helmets.

i always recall the story when the first blue helmets were sent to this today near east. he said to his friends he was in charge of that. he said how are we going to make them different is all the armies? and somebody said let's call them blue helmets. but the wars that are going on now and very few of them, blue helmets has been in effect this. there are some cases, cambodia keith is where the blue helmets have been extremely useful. but the united nations has not been able to set in action the real security council without a veto in the security council with strong authority. my hope ms tell you was that

after mr. bond keen to, who is a very charming and very able a phish show, but not an inspire the great visions. if he were succeeded by somebody like the brazilian ex-president, move the not to my mind would be a very important change. [applause] because with all the very important things that are being done by the united nations in the dozens of important field, in the fields of preventing more, putting a structure and securing peace they have failed. and the greatest failure of course is israel palestine.

why has that problem not yet been solved? because of the security council, there is a veto. but by one country i don't quite remember by which it is. last night and therefore, no progress has been made. [applause] >> can we have a microphone? >> okay, sorry, go ahead. >> hi, i've been involved in -- [inaudible] >> you must speak louder. >> i've been involved in the wall street process for the past week or so and so i'm very grateful for the chance to hear he's peak. your book has been a huge inspiration for all of us. i was wondering if i could ask your advice on one issue that we are facing, which is --

[inaudible] some of us feel that demands will help the movement grow and affect concrete change while others feel that it is more effective to remain sort of amorphous and connect to it through vague sentiment of indignation or outrage in this will help attract as many people as possible and keep the horizontal. so there is sort of two parties and i was wondering if you had any rights or input on this debate. >> yes. have you understood this very clearly? >> the question is that she's one of the protesters on wall street for a week and now since the movement faces the issue of demand, whether they should remain amorphous in order to be democratic or whether they should focus on a few set of

demands they've reached a sort of crossroads. is that they feel are inspired by your book. >> anyhow, the one thing they think should not be the result of indignation and that is the violin. the temptation would be to say we have been indignant and now we are going to hit the peak oil that are -- that make us outraged. i think the message of the book tries to bring forward that success is achieved more by nonviolent determination than by hitting back of people who one considers that is -- dislikes.

but that is always very difficult moment when one has gone on this tree and one has been strong in one's demand. then one goes home and what is next? so that is where we've tried with the second book to see one's demand station has shown that one is outraged, then one must try to find nonviolent method strong enough to be sent by those against oneself in action and one can use for the modern means. one of the most important modern means of coors are the media.

the journalists working with journalists is very important. and it is necessary that journalists remained independent enough to be coming forward and indignation. if you have a good return, and understand there is one that i'd vaguely heard in recent time. it's called the nation. last night the nation can carry forward beyond the immediate movement, something that will be felt more widely. so i would say my answer to your question is what do we do next after we have been indignant? we try to get good journalist to continue the fight.

[applause] >> i think just two more questions. in addition to all this traveling around the world, actually a ride from paris afternoon and it's very late for him, so i think we'll take two more quick questions and then will thank him and let him go and get some rest. i think there's a question back here. >> okay, i have a question. the nerve of the declaration of human rights, utah about property in the original declaration of human rights. the idea of property and the rulings recently incorporation as a person by the u.s. supreme court strengthened the position of capitalism and property in

all these sort of things. how can engagement deal with the problem of property because they see the other points that you mention in your buck are poverty and richness, the environment and terrorism all related to that. how do you deal with the problem of excessive greed and how do you move to compassion and engagement? and how do you know fermented nation to effective action? >> hair. basic question. let us start with property. it is true that this article in the declaration of human rights was of course brought forward and supported very strongly that the market economy. the market economy cannot work if property is not protect it. and at the same time, market

economy was speculative finance and is also dangerous to property. so it must be, i think, considered as something that gives the response ability for the property of others. you should be made secure in your property only if the property is not extended beyond the normal need of the proprietor. so, it is true that when we drafted the declaration, the countries which were on market economy and on capitalists on were needed to ascertain their views as the kids does who

already lived at that time and administered economies because they were present in the rule. now, i think we have grown. defeating has grown that are normally communism is dead at to the war of the fall of the berlin wall to be brief, but that socialism is also a danger because it may lead to administer the economy and we must protect the freedom of the market. there we can go beyond what is ethically accept the will. it is not administered economy that we need, but we need social d. we have a real need for the protection of the other

privilege. i always come back, common that we live in a world where there is much a distance between the privilege and the underprivileged that any government which wants to consider himself a democratic, and therefore having competing for the oligarchy, he must have a social policy and limit the power of the market and let not the market grow file. i am afraid that what we call is the washington can then says, with milton friedman and others that was going in that direction that we can no longer accept to support.

[applause] >> okay, what am i sure question right here. go ahead. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. be an african lion was deemed to have quickly your position of the institution africa because particularly in the democracy security. in 2011, africa find it hard to walk through the development. so according to you, what are the issues that indeed asking countries to achieve the movement? thank you. speenine the most important to my mind thing for africa is that the aid given to africa, which is normal and needed because

africa is the poorest part of the various areas of this world, but that it can be more dangerous than it can be useful if those who receive it are not masters of the way in which it is being distributed. we have seen. for aid was channeled through the head of state in a parking countries and the head of state themselves had been secretly brought to power by outside powers who are happy to have their persons with whom they could have good bargains for themselves. now more than ever, the african youth fortunately understand that it has to get rid of