support whether it is unmanned drones or what ever along with local individuals. we hear you. one of the things we are beginning to hear is as the drugs come north the money and guns go south. so now to the generals. how do you suggest we deal with the guns and money going south as part of this deterrent to deal with this issue? >> thank you for those comments. the full we agree with you. one of the political problems you face is you are trying to get resources out of congress but simultaneously saying the problem isn't very important. their rates, you are simply not going to be able to get the resources to customer and border protection that are required. there is a tension here between

diminishing scale of the threat while trying to enhance resources. i also think we owe it to the mexicans to not see the problem as there a threat to us or recognize mutual responsibility. every time i look at seizure raids, arce's rates and cash going south are nonsensical. we don't get at a bit of it. when we take pride in seizing $20 million that is a drop in the bucket. to do that, i stood on the bridge of the americas in el paso and you look at the car is going into mexico at night. you don't see any tail lights. they are not slowing down. they are driving by mexican law enforcement going into the country. we would have to establish on our side -- the most important issue is economic. we do not want -- mexico is the

third biggest trading partner. probably a number 2 on energy. tremendously important to our country. we can't stop traffic at that border. to do that we have to establish new forms of control. how do you look for money going south. we have a problem of guns. i am a gun that. my son and i are done that's. done nots. gun nuts. we have to make short individuals cannot by dozens of semiautomatic weapons that can be easily fixed and allow them to go south and murder mexican police and marines and soldiers nevermind border patrol agents. i don't mean to divert this boneheaded atf operation. i am talking about the larger issue -- >> i appreciate it.

are understand guns too. but i use them in a sporting context. dr. vickers, you talked about the resources. what kind of resources do you envision as being helpful to a county like yours? >> we need to start at the local level. this is where britney instance start. like rural counties i mentioned that have border patrol checkpoint most of them in texas have small sheriff's department because we are small populated counties. hours has 6,000 people. kennedy county on highway 77 has 400. these sheriff's department are on the front line. a lot of times they are the first person somebody calls when they have an incident or issue or life-threatening situation and they call 911. a lot of times the border patrol

can't respond because they are tied up at the checkpoint with a drug bust or some other activity. it is critical to give adequate funding to these sheriff's departments one or two counties in. it is critical. are sheriff's department has an application for a grant for $410 for a lot of equipment that would help in that county. in adjacent counties with similar problems mean the same thing. this is where we need to start and we need to help the state. we need more helicopters. our texas rangers are strapped, overworked and doing a great job but it is not enough. we need twice as many helicopters to assist the border patrol in south texas. >> thank you very much. the underlying comment is we have to have more resources

available to the border than less resources. >> we need more resources starting at the county level and going through the border patrol. >> we thank the ranking member. are just want to say i think the south bound flow of cash and weapons is the big issue which is why we double the size of these teams that conceive weapons and cash and strangle the lifeblood of the cartel's. we authorize additional you ave support in the border area grants you talked about which was authorized in my amendment joined by congressman cuellar. and the afghanistan/pakistan border we are moving technologies to the south and that is smart as we wind down operations. this surveillance we can move

and deployed to the southwest border and save the taxpayers' money as well. i would like to recognize the gentleman from florida. >> appreciate it very much. question for the generals. why are the iranians in your opinion opening embassies as the gentleman from south carolina indicated throughout latin america including countries where there are no significant commercial relationships or expatriate communities? is it possible to give platforms to the intelligence service and proxies'? do they have to do with the relationships between these terrorist groups and drug cartels? and one more question after that. >> thank you. i don't think there's any question that terrorist exporting countries like iran for instance, i don't think there's any question they have a grand plan and they have allies

in south and central america, governments that are willing to take their ideologies or embrace their ideologies and give them a launch point or lily pad for entry into the united states. what is important to understand, if it weren't for the cartels and the cartel in the fall and they would have a tough road from mexico north. it is like a soprano's type of organization. standing on the street corner and all you want to do is have the grease. they are generally not political or ideological. they are there to expedite illegal activity. my concern as evidenced by what happened the other day is that the working relationship, the familiarity between governments like venezuela and cartel organizations like the zetas who

are military organizations will become more intermixed. it will be more profitable. you have an odd situation where you have petrodollars' supporting a lily pad in venezuela being pushed forward by narco dollars. it is a dangerous situation and what we saw last week wasn't something that sort of was viewed very highly along our screen. all we need is for something like this to succeed by pick your terrorist working his way through the southern border to be a wake-up call to the nation. god forbid it should never happen. >> would you like -- >> i joined dr. scales's comments. the dominant concern we in the united states have is criminal activity distributing hundreds

of metric tons of drugs in our cities and we end up with -- pick a study. five million americans are chronically addicted to illegal drugs. i was in utah yesterday. statewide nationwide conference on troubled youth and at the end of the day the problem affecting the united states is cocaine, methamphetamine, alcohol abuse by youngsters. that criminal activity is what we need to focus on. your point is entirely correct. how could we pretend to protect america if the federal law enforcement agencies lack the strategy and resources to control our frontier? they do not control our frontier. they do a terrific job protecting el paso and san diego. part of that is fencing. strategically placed. but the rest of the border others will tell you is free movement of heavily armed people. on the other side of that border

you look across the river into juar juarez, company sized firefights with grenade machine guns. anti aircraft guns, military hand grenades. these are not mafia shake down of a guy with a fruit stand. these are huge legal organizations who so far by and large have decided for business reasons to not go after u.s. law-enforcement on our side of the frontier. it is coming. this situation is getting worse and we have to protect ourselves. >> thank you. last question. is it true that some of the car bombs being used by the cartels in mexico are technically very similar to car bombs designed in iraq by iran's terrorist proxy's? would you say that would indicate if that is true,

possible collusion or training between cartels and terrorist groups? >> you have to go to relevant authorities. general david petraeus, more relevant testimony. i dealt with mr. hugo chavez personally and have great empathy for the problems of venezuela but he has acted as a platform facilitating the goofiest terrorist organization on the face of the earth threatening his own neighbors and facilitating threats to the united states so we should expect this will happen and part of it will be facilitated by the venezuelan intelligence service. to add to what general mccaffrey said the cartel's need a lot of help. i was talking to a texas ranger who described a cartel operation. they have world-class

communication that was encrypted. they have automatic weapons superior to those of the texas rangers. they had a scout system of scout using night-vision devices. they had operations plan. i have even seen a manual for execution and ambushes taken directly from our military manuals. if the iranians are involved, fine but if someone will describe the characteristics of the small unit based on equipment, training, technology, i would have been very impressed. >> i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentlelady from new york, miss clark. >> as a president and representative of the northern border czar would like to provide by time to someone with expertise from texas.

the gentleman from laredo, mr. c cuell cuellar. >> just for procedure i'd get her five minute and buy additional 5 minutes. >> within the discretion but yes. >> i am on the ethics committee -- [talking over each other] >> first of all i want to thank the witnesses for being here. i do know that we all have the same goal to protect our country. we are all in agreement. i think my good friend as we go back to the state legislature and appreciate the work you have done and i'd want to make sure my friend michael mccollum understands we are all on the same page but i have some

questions. nehr disregard to our military folks but i want to ask some questions. i have three brothers who are peace officers. one is the border sheriff, what is a narcotics intelligence officer, two other peace officers and my family and two kids live there. i lived there all my life. i was governor perry's secretary of state. i understand the border and the mexican side. i used to be the chairman of the budget and the texas rangers. i understand that but wanted to give you this as a background. my first question if i could have slide number one and ask you one question. the crux of the report is this. i don't have a problem with what is happening in mexico. it is a violent situation but we have the best working relationship we had with republican mexico in the last

175 years. the cooperation has been a shift in paradigm in working with them. we need to continue working with them but there are two things in the report that really upset a lot of us that live on the border. you make it sound like there are no nice people living on the border. one is your quote was doing business in the border and the border county like doing business in a water still. number 2 citizens on the u.s. border texas side are under constant attack 24 hours a day. those of the points i want to mention that i am focusing on. let me ask you this. if you look at the chart over there, you look at the chart and you see certain things, you see border areas. this is the murder rate for 100,000 and houston, dallas,

longview, highest one guard gary, indiana and new orleans. almost 51 murders for 100,000. washington d.c. is at 23. would you call washington d.c. a war zone? yes or no? >> questions are never answered with yes or no. i won't answer a question with yes or no. >> we're talking by each other. >> the murder rate in el paso does not take into account the 50 murdered mexican nationals that dr. victor accounts. you have to go to their rural community to call it a war zone. el paso is a beautiful vibrant place where the hospital is so fearful that they want their own police force to guard against

mexican criminals coming in. >> thank you. the other general. is washington d.c. a war zone? >> no. >> but look again those numbers you came to the conclusion that laredo and those areas are war zones? >> no. >> look at your report. you were paid $80,000 as former military taxpayer dollars to make this report? is that correct? >> we had five people work four months on this report. >> without -- [talking over each other] >> will the gentleman yield? these are respected generals. we need to show respect and

allow them to answer the question. >> were you paid $80,000? yes or no? >> i you suggesting that this report had political or monetary motivations? if you are that is a shame. my dedication to this country is 32 years of service. >> a statement was made by your colleague that said let's cut through the politics. it was just said. >> an ad hominem attack on my motivation for this study. >> i am asking the simple question. were you paid $80,000? >> you are asking a provocative question that i am not going to accept. >> i understand you were paid $80,000 for the report. you are making a profit. >> we did not make a profit. we lost a considerable amount of money.

>> $80,000. let me ask you. let me ask you this question. europeans are safe from nukes. i'm a ph.d.. i looked at your report. i looked at your report. all i found was anecdotal evidence. i think if i had done my dissertation for a report i would have put no citation, a bibliography -- no footnotes. don't you think anybody who had written this as a ph.d. would never gotten an f on a report? >> i have done six books and 300 scholarly articles. i know a little bit about how to write. that is not how we did it. what i suggest you do is have your staffers go into our bibliography.

over 200 citations are on line. i did say -- the issue is not that. the issue is not about what has happened out or in the last ten years. what i am concerned about is the future. we are suggesting what is happening on the texas border is a canary in the coal mine. a harbinger of a future. our concern is if it is neglected particularly in rural areas the nation will pay a high price. >> what scientific instrument did you use for measuring this report? validity did you use or was a all anecdotal? >> it wasn't anecdotal. if you go through the report and look at the bibliography you will see that. >> we will do that a few minutes. let me ask you this question. your report cites -- i am trying to find your evidence. trying to find your evidence. your report on pages 24 through

28 uses the anecdotal information from the texas agricultural website. is that the information you used to show the violence of the border? it disagrees with the fbi statistics. >> i agree with the department of justice's statistics, which we've relied for a lot of this information and the general accounting office and other federal agencies. if you have that much trust in federal statistics so be it. we added an anecdotal section because we thought that the concerns expressed by ranchers and farmers were so poignant and so well stated as dr. vickers just said that some type of anecdotal reinforcement of our statistical data was pretty useful because it talks about the human side of this, not the statistical side. you seem to be missing that point. >> let me see what you missed. how many people did you

interview? for report? how many people did you talk to to make this report? >> it seems to me that this report was based primarily on federal reports that are published. secondly based on my personal 15 years of dealing with the border in mexico. and finally we added i think dr. scales correctly stated we tried to listen to the voice of texas law enforcement and texas rural people. the qualitative basis behind this report. >> how many individuals did you personally interview to come up with this report? >> i don't know. i interviewed -- i interviewed several people. i can't give you a number.

>> two? five? 20? >> i have interviewed people over 15 years. >> i will give you a number. i didn't count them. adding texas border security people, local people, i will say your the number. 30. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >> ten minutes? >> yes. not sure about his lunch with the general now after this q&a. >> let me close up. >> i have all the due respect for you all. miley point was this. i feel if you are going to attack the border and call it a -- it is doing business in a war zone i was asking what was your information? i was not getting personal. >> look at the bibliography. glow on the web site and come up

with the apartment of justice information and that answers your question. >> i think you were getting personal. >> mr. chairman, may i be recognized? >> the chair recognizes the ranking member. >> i would like to further ask unanimous consent to members of the committee to be allowed to testify. i want to be clear as i was before. you're representing your country so well. we would never question -- of least i would never question any of your motives when it comes or country's safety and security. >> i think the ranking member for his respectful comments and let me add my respect for these two generals and the work you

have done and let me add when we talk about the data to some extent it was in not taking into account direct traffic. and not take into account kidnapping and home invasion threats and extortion and crimes associated with drug trafficking and a congressional resources service reported trends in drug-trafficking related crime across the united states are currently unknown because federal law enforcement agencies do not systematically track and report drug-trafficking crime is. with that i will recognize the gentlelady who serves on the homeland security committee, ms. jackson lee. >> i thank the members that are here and i would ordinarily yield. i am being called to the floor with an amendment. let me thank the committee for

their questioning and say to the witnesses that are here information is valuable. i worked with general mccaffrey when we worked together and he was a drug czar and worked with members at this table on the issue of both gm --otm that lead their way into confusion, what i consider on the mexican side with respect to drug cartels and violence that can pose a serious terrorist threat coming through. i don't think anyone denies the existence of the potential for violent spillover clearly with the incident making this hearing timely on the interaction of the iranian assassination plot, drug cartels seeking to pay a drug

cartel activist terrorist to be engaged in an assassination plot. we are not blind to championing a reason to say that does not happen. be a next -- feet --the angst is when the state department had all good intentions. the question i want to pose, we should be very clear that i review the commitment of the present administration has a serious commitment to the needs of the border. it is an overwhelming crisis we are facing. first of all of want to have on the record is this a pointed report at the obama administration for their lack of engagement?

>> let me respond to that. absolutely not. secretary janet napolitano and her predecessors, started with nothing, created 180,000 personal departments and 23 agencies have enhanced security at the border enormously. when i started working the issue with your support and guidance in your district we had 4,000 border patrol men. we barely had the border marked. overtime we have done a magnificent improved job and i have great respect for them. >> my time is short. this is a systemic problem. we are way beyond that and i indicated the amendments and submissions to enhance border patrol. let me get to the point of the violence and the gist of this

particular report. i think it is important to delineate how you just delineated because what happened is the impact of the report and we want to focus our resources such as it is a bloodbath walking through the streets of laredo and el paso and even law-enforcement are being overwhelmed. what i would like to hear from you is one that you distinguish there are strong law-enforcement and local jurisdictions that take no prisoners in terms of tolerating that or working to not have that occur but from a federal perspective going forward, whatever administration comes up we have a persistent continuing crisis at the border that has the potential impact but there is no doubt cities at the border are fighting but maintain a climate of being able to do business.

could that be a legitimate -- >> you stated it perfectly. >> as someone who was invited to the border and being on this committee and i am not ignoring you. i have a it amendment, i would ask we have the opportunity. i would appreciate the opportunity for further discussion so that the report this committee has oversight and the chairman allowed me to participate, the report gets directed to the resources we in the federal government need to have for partnership and the final question, is this an appropriate time to cut homeland security funding or to enhancements when security funding for the point you made in your report? >> you summarized it. it is not just resources but also a coordinated federal

strategy. >> so resources should not be cut but we should have a federal strategy and acknowledging the work that has been done by local cities. thank you. >> i think the gentlelady. the chair recognizes former chief of the border patrol of the el paso, mr fast. >> i want to thank especially general scales and general mccaffrey for their service to the country and for taking a first cut at putting together a report that is the first cut and recommend we continue to develop this. my first question to you is did you visit or consult with the intelligence center to do this report? >> the intelligence center i've visited was in austin --

>> that is the state's one. >> i toward it. i went there three times. i had a chance if i could give a plug for the state of texas, that is one of the best three level tactical operations on strategic work nation's centers are have ever seen. it ranks with the best. >> that is in austin. the intelligence center on the border. why would you not have gone to visit the intelligence center? >> because my partner went down there. i was scheduled to go down there as you may know under treatment for cancer. [talking over each other] >> i have been in and out of the el paso center of hundred times so i am part of this study and well aware of their work. >> some of the conclusions in the report are contrary to what the el paso intelligence center

says and would have sent to you. whether we like it or not this is a political environment. those of us that live on the border especially me that worked the border that has the experience of being a border patrol agent and the chief i take umbrage at you saying there is no strategy that case you were pointing to is one great example of coordination and intelligence and law enforcement work. i would recommend your committee get a classified briefing on how that went down because some of the statements that were made here were erroneous but i don't think you have the information. >> i have been briefed on it. >> you did a classified

briefing? okay. then you recognize this was outstanding. >> i am going to excuse to with the fbi to congratulate them. having been a federal prosecutor this is an example of how they can work very well. >> and how things are working. atf gets criticized for fast and furious. in the report it is mentioned we have to go after the organization's. that is what they were trying to do and trying to do it in the joint investigation with mexico. that part of it gets ignored in the details. are also -- i also want to mention when we are talking

about what needs to be done there is no tension between what we say defend the community and border region and lack of resources. the chairman can tell you i am advocating for more and more resources to come to the border. the one area -- i retired in december of '95. we have 5600 border patrol agents in december of '95. today we have 21,000 border patrol agents but in this time spent close to 9/11 we have failed to pay attention to ports of entry. that is where the narcotics and most of the threat is for potential terrorists coming in to this country with false documents. the chairman knows very well that putting our resources toward security which deals with ports of entry.

david dwyer agrees. don't know if you're a co-sponsor or not but we need to focus resources and the ports of entry. the problem today is when you made the observation there was never a tail light that turn on going into mexico, the problem we have today is those ports of entry were designed exclusively to inspect traffic coming north. we have to pay attention to remodeling those ports of entry so the best teams and coordination with sheriff's and others so they can have a safe enough environment to screen traffic going south through those ports of entry. that is very important. lastly, whether or not the reporters looked at as a

political document or not, what is political is in the press conference statements are made like fill up the gas tank and get away from el paso and federal authorities talk to border sheriff said judges and bankers and merchants and farmers and i guarantee you you will get a completely different view. the mayor of eagle pass and the mayor of laredo and brownedsville all say the same thing the mayor of el paso is saying. but the implication here is for some reason -- i think it was a shot at me. trying to make a political statement or cover story. i assure you just like the chairman said, i would be the last one to question your motives because i have so much

respect for all of you. i don't know the commissioner but we exchanged letters. there were concerns about the texas border and statements made by people that were racist. i stand by those concerns but have tremendous respect for your work, your reputation and i want to work with you to help convince the majority on the house side that we need to pay attention to ports of entry. there is currently -- >> will the gentleman yield? you don't have to convince me on that. i yield back. >> as we're sitting here talking about these things ports of entry along the u.s.-mexico border are suffering with 33%

vacancy rate through as much as 38%. that is unconscionable. the drug cartels know that. they have multiple routers and multiple spotters. they also have some much money that some officers succumb to corruption. so it is critical that we do everything we can to protect our southern border but the southern border is not in chaos. it is not a war zone. there are tremendous resources that are put to work every day to keep us safe as reflected by that iranian case most recently. if you will agree you can get a very clear understanding of the federal strategy that exists and how they are working with local, state and other federal agencies

including texas dps. >> will the gentleman allow the witnesses to answer? it has been tweet 10 minutes and it is 12:40. we have votes at 1:00. >> the frustrating part of this is in five or ten minutes someone that knows what is going on and takes issue with some of the things in the report can't get it done but if you will allow me for the record i will submit to you a written response to the report. >> and without objection. >> i will give general scales and general mccaffrey a copy. i don't want to denigrate the work that you did but i do think there are huge holes in some of the conclusions that are there and other concerns i have. i have tremendous respect.

i am willing to yield. >> if i could, i would agree with your comment about ports of entry. we need to focus on developing and ensuring we have resources and that is a common goal we share with you. you mentioned several mayors along the texas/mexico border but 93% of the border between texas and mexico is an unincorporated area and overwhelmingly rural. i hope this doesn't default into statements of one senate to another in a report that was stated a war zone by texas ranger who is breathing and fighting the fight in these rural areas and the sheriff's deputy who is fighting of a fight and the comments you made were removed and thank you for calling the attention to that immediately upon being notified for something that was

inappropriate. the statistics presented here today from the uniform crime report the fbi sites two incidents on their own website that these statistics must not be taken in an isolated view.. one said that these rankings lead to simplistic and/or in complete analyses that present misleading perceptions adversely affecting cities and counties and their presidents. we are not here to focus on statistics. the purpose of the report was to move beyond what comments might be made by elected leaders and to put this in the hands of those who have impeccable credentials. what i heard, we are all in agreement we don't want to surrender one part of texas or one part of america to these cartel members and want to see more resources protecting these individuals and i thank you for

that. >> i also think you're point on the border crossing is entirely correct. it is in adequate resources, no question. to further your point, half of the illegal entries come by air. it is not just customers and border protection but security agency, eyes and others need to have a comprehensive system. not just those magnificent people. arlen the lot from you over the years listening to your experience in the border patrol. not just as foreign officers but the justice system, detention capability, ability to move these prisoners around. to mr. keating's point you can't get there unless you recognize ten million illegal migrants building america's future. we have to take that along with the border. thanks for all i have learned

from you over the years. >> time is expired. very constructive question and answer. the chair recognizes mr. green. >> the interloper. thank you. i thank the ranking member for courting me this honor to be part of this august body. to all of the witnesses are have been impressed with your testimony and thank you but i do have to say this. we have great respect for all of you and great respect for our generals. i think i speak for all the members of the committee when i say that we have great respect for you. my good friend mr. cuellar did not have that opportunity to give his conclusion and i would like to yield to him for his conclusion and then make one point.

>> thank you for yielding. like i said at the beginning i respect all of you. i appreciate it. my only point is our have a problem with the conclusions that came out. the crs came out that you cited, it comes out with a conclusion that is not there. i can point that out. also for the magazine listed a top 25 most dangerous cities. none of them on the southwest border. the business insider lists the most dangerous cities in america. i want to know what scientific method we get into. we are all in the same boat. i respect all of you. i respect the military folks. but i will protect the border no

matter who it is. shame on anybody who wants to attack the border. it is a great place to live. we have been working together in a bipartisan way. we are all americans. i am just saying let's do it together. thank you for being here. >> my comments are hopefully going to be well-received by all but i especially want to thank the generals because you are the genesis of my thoughts today because i had other things i wanted to say prior to hearing your comments. what you have said about comprehensive immigration reform but i take very seriously. i think you may salience point and the ranking member followed up on it and i want to follow up

too. there are some things that bear repeating because of the up importance associated with them. border security is important. no question it is important. it is a part of comprehensive immigration reform and we should never forget that it is a part of it. we have millions of people in the country that we cannot account for in terms of knowing who they are. we cannot allow a system to persist that does not let us know who is in this country. we cannot. we cannot focus exclusively on any one area of security to the exclusion of other areas that

are of paramount importance. i am saying to you with my one minute and ten seconds left that this really is a question of will. there is a way to do what we need to do. it is a question of will. the question is will we take up the responsibility to secure this country and to insecure this country we not only take up the component of securing the border but comprehensive immigration so we can do as you indicated. we need to know who is in the country and a means by which ingress and egress of those who are migratory workers can be accounted for. these are things that we can do. we have not had the will to do them. it is shameful if you want to know the truth from a person who is a member of congress.

it is shameful that we haven't had the will to take on comprehensive immigration and put this to rest. we are putting our country at risk because we won't step across and embrace each other on something vital to our security. comprehensive immigration. not just one aspect or any aspect, but the entirety of its so we can secure all the people in our country. i will single you out and say thank you again. we are doing other things i will talk to you about when we get a break. to all of you thank you for coming. thank you for your report. mr commissioner, thank you. i cannot do this without saying to people who made great sacrifice, thank you. i have been around some generals and i know what it means to reach that rank in life. you don't get there by being

popular. you earn it. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you for your very nice comments. this has been a spirited and lively debate. it is the debate we need to have as a country. i want to thank the generals and commissioner for providing this report which is the important. one last point i want to touch on that you mentioned, general mccaffrey. the intimidation by the drug cartels. did you believe they intimidate the civilian population? >> no question. commissioner staples got to the heart of it. the war is from texas law enforcement and texas rangers. i stand behind and defer to the viewpoints in rural communities. not el paso or laredo where we have the fbi and border patrol.

these american citizens require our federal protection and are not getting it. i thank you and all members of congress for bringing attention to this. >> the general threat to the state and the nation. do you believe the government? >> it is hard to intimidate texas state government. >> do you believe the drug cartels intimidate the government? >> thanks to the courage of president calderon they're not intimidated by anything. it is astonishing what they have done at the risk of their own lives and their families. it is unbelievable. so we owe them. we have an obligation to stand with them in a significant way. >> he said there's an attempt to replace the state with drug cartels. >> if i may answer i don't think they want to replace the state.

they want to intimidate it. they want to run drugs and human smuggling and illegal tuna, these are criminal organizations who want to intimidate mexican law enforcement and haven't done it. >> do you believe they do that by extortion and political assassination? >> it is unbelievable. we had to fan got for the courage of the mexican army. >> those are the elements under federal law to define terrorism. there is support for designation like president clinton did to designate them as foreign terrorist organizations. i didn't introduce this bill to label them but to give us more authority to go after them. i believe that could go a long way in stopping this threat. >> i wholeheartedly support your thoughts on it. it makes federal law enforcement

uneasy. they don't want to see department of defense for uniformed military taking primacy. the department of state is concerned about an embarrassment to mexico but we should label them what they are. i had the same problem in colombia ten years ago. we won that struggle and allowed ourselves to identify them as terrorist organizations in the state department report. we need to do the same to the mexican cartels. >> i want to give the panel 30 seconds or a minute to conclude because some of the witnesses -- the generals have testified agreed deal and i want to get the other witnesses to say a few words before we adjourn. commissioner staples. >> thank you for your attention to this issue. i think the testimony is clear that texas farmers and rangers are asking for your help.

no one is suggesting that taxes is not a dynamic state or our border is not a vibrant portion of the economy. what we are saying is the firsthand testimony of farmers and ranchers that they cannot live and enjoy their property is something no americans should pay status quo and we will accept. >> thank you for being here. general mccaffrey? >> i thank all members of the committee for their support you provided since i started working this issue in 1996. thank god we are beginning to have institutions that have resources to protect our frontier and i urge you to continue to support it. >> general scales? >> thank you for allowing us to be here. my suggestion is to get away from the numbers.

rear rates or urban violence or statistics is not the issue. it is not why we did the report. we did the report because we were concerned about the long-term safety of the citizens of texas to continued intrusion by the drug cartels. i use the phrase earlier in the testimony canary in the coal mine and i believe it to be true. let's not worry about the third decimal point. let's look at what it represents which is an increasing and insidious and violent turn by the mexican cartels to intrude themselves on our thousand cities using texas as their role point of entry. if this report -- if the outcome is continued interest by this committee and others on the importance of focusing on the role aspects of the cartel intrusion it served its purpose.

>> thank you, general. this aguilar. >> i want to stress the importance of providing homeland security grant funding and providing resources to local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. el paso should be used as a model of best practices and interest should be taken on what we are doing so right because of where we sit and how successful the community and law enforcement are in doing things right. i am saying come and visit the best practice model. >> you have to attribute that to what congressman reyes did with

physical barricades and fencing. you have a military base. it is a fortress. will dr. vickers closed out? >> january of this year the border patrol apprehended 11 at my ranch with 700 lbs. of marijuana. in santa garcia in march but carter heard machine-gun across the river. i heard machine-gun river working along the river in that area. both of these incidents i reported in my testimony happened and jim hall county. i know for effect therefore be criminal homicide on illegal aliens in the area and one cartel members murdered in the streets of laredo. i want to let congressman cue a

cuellar know that all of these are in his district but and most of the ranchers and a lot of ranchers in that area all the way to rio grande city will not call law-enforcement when they see backpackers with guns on our side of the river because they fear for their lives and family. >> we need to conclude this hearing. thanks for your testimony. we may disagree on some fine points, i believe both sides of the aisle agree with the final objective. we want to secure the border, security nation. have asked that we work together. >> i was going to recommend -- i think it is important to bring in sea bp and officials -- and the fbi in tell that can supplement what we do.

>> very constructive idea. with that we thank the witnesses and this hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]