effective, cost effective in terms of our rights, too costly, and other counterproductive? we've never had that discussion. what i'm trying to do in this book is to get people as you say the information. i think that people really understood that some of the things we thought might be true right after 9/11, may not be true. it's not true that we are financing terrorists from brooklyn mosques. that was 13 that existed in the fall of 2001 but it doesn't turn out to be true. >> host: i completely agree with you. we should have more conversation. we should have more involvement. we should have more political involvement by american people. with respect to the patriot act there has been involvement. there's been a michael moore documentary. there have been democratic processes, not just -- can to let me tell you. is one reason why i subtitled my book is that there is so many

intense along the way to marginalize the american people. this is also, i can see maybe one final story that will also be about the plus side. there were a number of heroes in my story. is not only the ordinary americans who've been victimized but also but individuals who have stood up who were never prosecuted. the government never went after them but they stood up for constitutional values your. >> host: last word, the hero. >> guest: one of these librarians its national security letter to many information about a library patron. he is shocked by this because attorney general ken salazar as just been telling congress that there's no enforcement in libraries but he wants to talk to congress. he's not allowed time and that is a great place to in because the only place in the spoke with my public service. thank you very much. thank you thank you. ..

interview several professors who have written recent books. over the next few sundays we will be airing these interviews beginning at 1:00 p.m. eastern. this we can we talked with meredith lair, author of .. the politics of size, representation in than 90 -- of

united states 1776-1850. for a complete schedule and the list of other george mason university interviews go to booktv.org. >> you are watching book tv on c-span2, 48 hours of nonfiction books every weekend. we are on the campus of george mason university in fairfax, virginia, on the outskirts of washington d.c. for our universities series. we had the chance to come to some universities and talk with professors to have ultimately let's as you might not have heard about. joining us now is meredith lair, a history professor here at gm you. her book is not quite out yet, but should be by the time this airs. here is the cover, "armed with abundance." professor, what was the typical experience of the american soldier in vietnam?

>> guest: that is a great place to start because i think the american public has an assumption about what that experience was. informed by television and movies and media coverage of the war. it tends to foreground the experience, the grunts, an imminent danger of living a life of obscurity and defamation and enduring frequent danger. so that is a very powerful image and certainly an experience many, many vietnam veterans had during the war, but it is probably not the dominating experience of the work is particularly by the late 1960's the estate's had built an incredible logistical apparatus to support his troops in combat, and so most soldiers were serving in suncor -- some kind of support capacity living largely out of harm's way. as the war went on they enjoyed in increasingly comfortable quality of life that was

designed to minimize the difference between living conditions in the u.s., on a u.s. military base and vietnam. >> host: how the soldiers at the peak? >> guest: the peak was 1968, 542,000 americans in vietnam. >> host: how many soldiers were killed? >> guest: of the top of my head, i don't. it was the deadliest year in vietnam because of the tet offensive and the operations after. so, you know, certainly i don't in the book tonight the hardship the soldiers in toward in the cause of the war in terms of blood and treasure and the and social consequences of the war, but what i'm trying to do is to complicate people's ideas about what it meant tough serve in vietnam and what that experiences like and also to give some credit to soldiers who don't see their experiences represented in fell more television or other popular

presentations of the war. >> host: you have a chart in here. 1968, $329 million what you have fans. 4 million why you include this chart? >> host: of the things i examined is consumerism. military authorities recognize that providing consumer goods to american soldiers is a way of maintaining strong soldier morale, and that is important because it's controversial. a lot of people serving in vietnam who do not want to be there. providing easy access to consumer goods, it becomes a way of ameliorating some of the morale problems. so they create this enormous post exchange apparatus, basically a retail operation.

u.s. military is functioning as a store. they come. and there in the world as a consequence with sales over a billion dollars. and those figures, i should note, are not adjusted for inflation. if there were adjusted for inflation, i don't have what those numbers would be, but it would be staggering. >> host: what is this photo on the front of the book? >> guest: that is one that i found in an archive, the vietnam are at texas tech university. three men pulling around the camera. it was an essential purchase and vietnam. it was something that was talked about a lot and publications for soldiers. it was a thing that does would save up their money to buy. these things were pricey. these are not the $99.. and sees that we have become accustomed to. these were sophisticated cameras that cost several hundred dollars and it was an iconic purchase of the war. there was just a rash of of

taking. i thought that was interesting because is soldiers taking pictures of themselves taking pictures, and that is i think in essence some of the book is about because soldiers and other people regarded the experience of the war in a way. >> host: of living insight on light? >> guest: it would depend on that very few variables. there were some stations and quarters that were essentially hotels that have been rented out by the u.s. military. it traded a lot of problems in the military because you had probably tens if not over under a dozen soldiers in the area and in the mid-60s to recreate a lot of problems. these guys were dahlia after numbers -- after our still getting drunk, it is eroding relations with the vietnamese for political reasons.

and also presenting themselves as targets for criminals who mug them. occasionally the viet cong who was obviously, grenades, setting off car bombs. he know, if you were a soldier stationed in saigon life was pretty good. there were random acts of violence. it did during the war to the doorstep in 1968. they didn't feel like there was a war going on is not for the information about the war that i'm getting from sources i wouldn't even know that i was in the war. >> host: where is this photo taken? >> guest: i think that was taken on the coast. that is basically some guys who are getting ready for a party. a different kind of beach landing where they have

prepositions of beer and hot dogs and grows already set up and are making this speech landing. you can kind of make out that they are and there's one trucks laden with supplies and there going to have a party. a photographer of who took that particular image has others of the beach, and it is guys standing around argue pets, and the beach is literally just littered with empty beer cans. in contrast to what we traditionally think of as a vietnam war. i believe he is an english man who was a journalist to cover the war, and he was one of just a couple of photojournalist it was interested in this side of the war. that was something that proved very difficult when i was trying to find quality images to include in the book. i did find lots and lots of not so quality images that were taken by these very soldiers themselves soon had very little facility with the camera's there using. so lots of blurry shards, dark

interiors. the professional journalists were charged with giving the story that would help to sell papers. and so the war that they tried to focus on was the killing and dying. the images that they produced are incredibly powerful and beautiful. they're very famous, but people, and the photographer that i talk a lot about was actually a soldier journalist. they took photographs that captured this other side of the war, and it really undermines the impression that the war was of great urgency for most americans were fighting it. >> host: when did you get interested in the vietnam war? >> guest: very, very early in my life. >> host: why? >> guest: i did my first research in seventh grade on vietnam. and the reason was because i am the daughter of vietnam veteran and a career military officer.

the vietnam war is really, he spent two tours in vietnam, and i think it really, you know, it's his mark on my family and my parents' marriage and their relationship with their children. so i was fascinated by that. i grew up in the 1980's. vietnam was still very raw for adults. i recognize that while my father was willing to talk about these experiences, most adults were not, and i had -- and also was trying to reconcile some competing messages i was hearing about what his war was like at times with how the war was being represented. >> host: and what did your father right in the prologue to your book? >> guest: i wrote the prologue, but it was about his experience in the war. i wanted to do that because this is a very personal subject for me. i wanted to lease land that genesis of the book, so i basically describes some of the contours of his service in vietnam, which during his first

tour took him to a very ecstatic existence on the compound with just a couple, maybe 20 americans working with vietnamese infantry. it was very hard, dangerous, and i think much more in that the spirit of how the vietnam war is popularly represented, but for his second tour he went back in 1970 and found a world that he could scarcely recognize in vietnam. and so the he was stationed at one of the largest bases in vietnam. it was really like an american outpost in southeast asia. the boards of 60,000 people. a dozen swimming pools. barbeque pets all over the installation, massive texas, hundreds of literally opportunities to drink and party , movie theaters, bowling

alley, every amenity that you could imagine. he worked in an air-conditioned office during that tour and really had some profound questions about what am i doing here and what kind of war is this. and so i heard those, you know, competing versions of the war as a kid and really, it is not as though i set out to write a book about that, but then when i was, you know, it professionals dollar and doing this kind of research i started to find the evidence of this other world, and that captured my imagination once again. >> host: did you think potentially that the rules of abundance and consumerism seem to have something to do with it? >> guest: it has some controversy. i had one speaking engagement whereas some really hostile reactions from vietnam veterans were from people who feel that i am pointing to some of the more

comfortable conditions that americans in jordan did not and eroding the sense of sacrifice that americans made. i think that's the wrong way to lick the problem because even if somebody went to vietnam and spent a year on one of these bases basically working a 7-5 or 7-6 job and partying in their off-duty hours, there are still missing out on a lot, and there still is a great deal of loneliness and alienation. the world at home is passing you by. it complicates relationships, and so there is still a sacrifice to be made, and the soldiers don't often see their role in the war acknowledged. there are very few public spence and the vast majority ourself published faugh. the market doesn't want to hear those stories. >> host: you have mentioned drinking and partying. was there a lot of that? >> guest: there was. it is something that i think the

american public has to take responsibility for, that our soldiers abroad in the vietnam war were not always angeles. and so drinking and carousing was largely encouraged by the military in the sense that it was not strongly discouraged. there was no sanction for visiting brothels. there were brothel's tolerated on american bases and medics bird center and to treat vietnamese prostitutes off. there was definitely a wink wink approach, boys will be boys, to the vietnam. some of the book is a harsh reminder of that. oxley and encounter. american men. these vietnamese women were participating in it, not because they aspired to be prostitutes, but because the war so unsettled

the countryside, created 5 million refugees. families are struggling, and often the last best hope for a family was a prostitute out their daughter. american soldiers didn't seem to pay much thought to that. not all of them certainly, but a lot of them. and so there are bitter consequences. as far as the drinking is concerned, drinking was rampant in vietnam. i think a lot of attention is paid to drug use because americans at the time, the world over were experimenting with pot and other drugs. that drug culture carried into the vietnam war. but trading was absolutely pervasive, and essentially encouraged because the u.s. military was the prayer out of. there were at times delivering beer to men in the field. it was available by the case. there was a ration program that set limits on what american soldiers could buy, but it was a shocking quantity, something like 45 cases a month was the limit and you're expected to consume what you had.

there were concerns that there would create this epic blow up drunk and parties that could not be controlled. and then there were these clubs, little clubs that were started up by a unit where everyone in the unit would pony up $205 to the club going. over the course of the work the club proceeds are then reinvested in making the club nicer and nicer and nicer, so some start out and don't have running water and are just a little back room. warm beer. and then by the end they have leathers will chairs and incredibly sophisticated night clubs. live entertainment and slot machines and food. and literally generating millions of dollars. there was so much money being generated by these clubs that the u.s. military around 1969 are 70 conducted an audit and sees something like $16 million

in cash that was laying out in these "cash registers and / machines, and that money was used to build a high-rise hotel in hawaii for military families on our guard. >> host: the base is the you're talking about in vietnam, and then the models for what we have today, i'm thinking of the iraq in afghanistan and other foreign bases that have a lot of the american amenities? >> guest: i would not say they are models for it. i don't think they set out to replicate to all but i think that they are the antecedent of the basis. like during the vietnam war, we don't often hear much about that, that these bases are enormous and that they have in their amenities definitely eroded the distinction between a war zone standard of living and a stateside standard of living. and so the book also addresses some of that in the introduction and in an epilogue that talks about the consumesm