>> joining us it is a professor christopher her ever history professor at george mason his newest book is called the and during battle. professor, what 23 wars did you choose and why? >> look at the war for independence the civil war

and second world war i pick those three because i wanted to survey brought the the experience of soldiers fighting what was similar on the ground and fighting and the differences. >> host: what consistencies did do find from the revolutionary war throat or to? >> for soldiers in battle there was profound commonalities the presence of danger the smuggling the appearance of death is fed of energy the delays and confusion and chaos. those change very little. we could go back with thousand years and find the exact qualities. >> host: there is a constant. >> said the similarities are

often overlooked by the veterans themselves. a number of the soldiers remarked they imagine their experience has been like their predecessors like world war two's soldier comparing -- comparing the training compared to the stonewall brigade i thought one soldier looked around and is reminded of nothing as the famous photograph of the civil war battlefield and remarked he imagines war was a universal experience a leading the change was the uniforms. if you look closely however much more than the the four changes. the experience of the continental soldier 1777 has significant differences the end of world war ii g.i. fighting northwest europe. >> host: such as?

>> guest: like their successors when to into battle and then year formation impact shoulder to shoulder and elbow to elbow they may be in the midst of a formation and long-range it rose of comrades in front of him more behind him. in a very conspicuous negative term bright leave colored uniforms waving flags and banners the company by drums and the trumpet and showed tint officers. in the linear system, combat for the ground a soldier was like two armed mobs crashing into each other and it happened in the midst of a crowd. in the 20th century advances and weapons technology has made the linear for rations all but

suicidal it was impossible to march hundreds of shoulders -- soldiers into battle because one nb machine gun or one high explosive artillery shell could liquidate the entire four mischa's those the solution that was presented was to disperse the soldiers in camouflage and conceal so they were hidden from and not put together where the single machine gun position or a show could destroy an entire company but the simple fact of dispersion and camouflage and cover is a very profound implications the way the soldiers experience combat on the ground. >> host: christopher hamner what about training? >> the differences of training your very vivid. in the 18th and 19th

century soldiers spend most of their time in gauged in drill and it is vitally important for an infantry formation to keep its integrity physically they have to stay together and march in lockstep to or and reload the weapons and as you can imagine amidst the danger in chaos that was a difficult task. the training regimen emphasize rote memorization and a small member of this coelho manipulations to perform effectively in combat. i just referred to the says the overlearned have been a pretty is familiar with the phenomenon things that are in mcgrady a in your body

through physical repetition become easier to perform in stressful situation. 18th and 19th century much training was focused on getting soldiers to perform these manipulations almost robotic three. in fact, a number of the of theorists suggested in order for human beings to be calm and defective he had to first be transformed into the automaton. by the 20th century, of being has automaton and was no longer helpful or useful because soldiers could not move than fire lockstep, dispersed, out of sight of the comrades and their leaders and had to act with a great degree of autonomy with making critical snap decisions about what they would do and

where to go and dame the fire and do that and did the stress and confusion of com bad and also do a very quickly. well there was still a great deal of girl and 20th century combat training regiment, also a new emphasis on realistic training. to put soldiers and live fire exercises in some areas that mimic as closely as possible the actual danger and no way so they can be accustomed to the flood of the adrenaline put them in my fire drills and realistic exercises and amok village soldiers could go through with pop-up targets practice nearly as possible some of

the conditions they would encounter. there was very little in the way a target practice some realize how to maneuver with the union to do so-so consistent city -- consistently they could still respond to commands. >> in during battle is christopher hamner first book from george mason university university press published a book. what about a just cause? >> -- the glory of the cause? >> that is a fascinating question then that intrudes on the thoughts of soldiers from each century often before they go into battle or more often after they leave interestingly what i

steadied in my research then see a gentle and flows, in then the remarked the eight ideology and patriotism they fade dramatically to the background. from soldiers the veitch era commenting on that in the heat of combat year interest extends no further in the soldier from the may 20th century said states army a patriotism is good before we going to the combat but the bullets are flying you think of saving your own skin so undoubtedly incredibly important important between battles but a less significant role win, that

is engaged because the circumstances are so urgent they crowd out others. >> host: where you come up with the idiot to compare the wars? >> guest: i had an interest in human behavior in life-threatening more traumatic experience is. my initial expectation is the orthodox explanation they fight out of the bonds of completion would be the case and to select three conflicts that have been very technological circumstances. and to test the theory the continental soldiers of the war using relatively inaccurate and muskets, a

single borrower shots by the 20th century -- century the gs had an impressive array of weaponry. and to put these france's side by side to see what differences emerged. >> host: in going back your fascination with life-threatening situations? >> i could only guess. maybe watching a lot of four movies as a kid and wondering what tonners would make someone with a machine gun a pair of psychologist in the second world war says it boils down to the simple question what makes a rational person act year rational? that has formed all the research i have done. >> host: what is the photo on the front?

>> in america been g.i. from the last year of the second world war and amidst good dispersion a battle would physically separated from others. >> host: your book is about soldiers but could you draw any conclusions are similarities between general's washington, grant, eisenhowe r? >> because this is ground up type of look focusing on the soldiers and rank and file. soldiers who did not win any fame or a claim but who served heroically in make up the building blocks of the army. especially at the top level of command, the leaders come

in surprising frequently but there is a constant reflection what qualifies them to the them and what they look for in a leader. to see the practical fact of the battlefield on what soldiers look for the 18th and 19th century where those who are standing next to them use brains far negative out by a shell there was an enormous well-founded concern that if diffuse soldiers were seen to panic it would spread quickly and the formation would dissolve so many come back officers who guard

respect worriers soldiers of leaders who on the outside appear to be unruffled by the danger and the chaos. stood tall, who had a booming voice and a reassuring stature and who could embody the type of behavior we were supposed to display but because the troops were so spread out with the other leaders, it was much less important for the effective combat officer to stand up and physically model the courageous behavior. many cultures understood that was suicided lee reckless though there are very few examples of

soldiers looking to a leader in fact, is an anecdote that turns up many were confronted with a second lieutenant as they were cowering while a male over and the experienced veterans look at each other and then one springs up and immediately breaks the machine gun fire and knowledgeable veteran comes back but what they did 102 value was competence leaders to news the business of warfare and leadership and knew how to spot dead areas of the ground and how to outflank the enemy machine-gun position. with examples of junior officers who in the mid

20th-century would trample or cry in combat. not unheard of 25 those at the same time maintained a reputation for effectiveness in combat because they knew what they were doing and survive for months. let kinda reputation is unthinkable for a regimental captain to espouse himself and enjoy any type of credibility as a leader to seven and the social professor of history at george mason university, christopher hamner. >> american military history mostly. >> host: in during battles. published by university of kansas press. @@

this. >> host: "death and redemption" is the name of the book. the gulag and the shaping of modern society" is the subtitle george mason university professor steven barnes is the author. what is a gulag? >> guest: in short it is the acronym for the chief administration and it is a bureaucratic