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>> good morning. thank you for joining us here at the heritage foundation. as director of lectures and seminars, it's my pleasure to welcome you to the lowest lerman auditorium and who joined on the heritage.org website on all locations. we would ask everyone in house to make that courtesy check that cell phones have been turned off. it would be appreciated as we record the event. we will allow questions from internet viewers if they would like to e-mail us addressing those to speaker@heritage.org and we will post the program within 24 hours for future reference. hosting the discussion and introducing a special guest this morning is jennifer marshall. a director of domestic policy studies and our richard and helen center for religion and civil society. she oversees the heritage research and education, welfare,

marriage, the family and religion and civil society. she also manages family factors.org, our online catalog of social science research deleted to family and practice. prior to joining here, she worked on cultural policy issues out in power america, and before that she was a senior director of family studies of the family research council. please join me in welcoming jennifer marshall. jennifer? [applause] >> thank you, john come and all of you for being here for a book event on "black and tired: essays on race, politics, culture, and international development" by dr. anthony bradley. a few days ago here in washington, d.c., hurricane irene pushed back the official dedication of the new memorial to dr. martin luther king. but the silver lining in that hurricane is that the delay appropriately extends our focus on dr. king's civil rights legacy and the work of those

who, since him, have strived to make all of god's children truly free at last. well, dr. anthony bradley is one of those freedom seekers. as the title of his new book conveys, "black and tired," he's not satisfied with the progress to date. also for reasons you may not often hear about. has the essays in this book show, with titles like dw and the family, hip-hop's delusional god talk and green guzzle, anthony bradley is a scholar with wide ranging interests. his academic category shows that as well. his undergraduate degree is in science and his master's from the seminary and doctorate from west minister seminary are in theology. today he teaches at king's college of christian liberal arts school in new york city. and the knees first book was "liberating black theology" the bible and the black experience in america. his latest book, "black and

tired," looks at the experience of one race to teach us truth about all humanity. and our views of human nature, he argues, will shape our public policy. so it's worth pausing to consider what it means to be fully human. please join me in welcoming dr. anthony bradley as he helps us do that today. [applause] >> thank you, jennifer marshall, for the invitation. i am honored and delighted to be at the heritage foundation for this event. for years, i often say because i may nerd growing up i would watch c-span quite a bit and see people come of these think tanks, i would sit there and wonder "i wonder if one day i will be standing in front of

this backdrop with the foundation," so i am honored to be here. thank you for the invitation. my connection to this foundation goes back quite some years. i have, with great honor and boasting, used a lot of the work in my own research and writing. his work has been particularly helpful for me in terms of my own attempts to think differently about both political and economic liberation for african-americans. the united states is an incredible place that stands out among other nations in the world, and i recently had an opportunity to be realigned of how great this place is that my

family reunion in alabama in the city of out more alabama -- atmore. it's the please my family plantation was, so i stand here before you as a descendant of slaves from the bradley plantation in escambia county alabama. slavery where construction, jim crow, the civil rights movement, this is my family story of struggling and fighting for humanity and freedom in the context and culture was saturated with investment into the humanization. what is amazing about this narrative about the story is not only does my family know where the plantation is in escambia

county, we now own at and there are members of my family currently living on that as free people who have property rights to it, codify and protected by will fall. how many countries in the world is it possible to have a group of people who were once sleeves on a piece of property a few generations lately own the property that they were living on that they were being in sleeve on -- enslaved on. yes, of course we noticed progress in our country by having a black family in the oval office. there are not too many countries around the world where you would see subdominant cultures rise to

that level, that status and just a few generations after movements like the civil rights movement. it's amazing to me that -- and all i personally am delighted to think about what is it about this country, what is it about our founding principles that allow someone like myself to be a descendant of slaves, to be standing in front of a group of people having earned a ph.d., standing in front of the heritage foundation backdrop speaking to you about my second book. to me it is an amazing narrative about the potential of the freedom and liberty in economics and power meant that this country offers to those who have the opportunity to take advantage of its.

so i name my book "black and tired" on purpose. one because i am glad black, as you can tell, and i want to remain connected to the history of my own family, the story of rising to success in spite of incredibly traumatic and wounding and painful experiences in this country. because the hopes and dreams and aspirations in these institutions to value the principle that create the conditions that put me here today are being sabotaged and eroded by those who have good intentions but often do not think through the consequences of public policy decisions because they have different views on the human person and human dignity than those who actually structured and our government in the first place.

while the effect of the anthropology are not immediately seen, the long-term effects have been uniquely and harshly experienced among the black underclass, and this makes me tired. tired of those who think that putting decisions in the hands of a few people is best in the long run when it has been demonstrated repeatedly in history that concentrating power in the hands of a few people leads to more oppression, not less. and in fact this concentration of power, those making decisions, a few making decisions, this has been much of the black experience in america. so in fact "black and tired" because it seems that the there is this movement, this energy to reposition african-americans in

such a way that a few people are making decisions about those masses. it's an exhausting to see the national campaign for the did dignity and the folks with dr. martin luther king and ralf elbra kathy and someone to be hijacked by the organizational narcissism that we find among politicians and government agencies operating under the delusion that they have the expertise and capacity to solve all of society's problems and its genex listing to see the politics of envy undermined this campaign for dignity what seeks to define what people deserve by pitting those of the varying degrees of wealth against others as if life is some sort of race,

as if there's some sort of competition. it's been exhausting to stevan zero some economics which poisons the imagination of those who do not understand the social and applications of wealth creation enough to believe in this that the only way is to exploit others. so i set them on the same political island with walter williams and the katulis of the economics is inseparable from honoring the dignity of blackness by guaranteeing opportunities under ball for blacks to be treated no differently than anyone else. this equality of treatment is sabotage to today in the culture

drowning in narcissism and entitlement. it is a narcissism but blames others for one shortcoming and justifies breaking law and moral norms are out of the sense of entitlement. you'll want to us, say the entitled, but how did we get here? we see the consequences of the few converging trends. one is the decrease in american religious life. second, the erosion and the understanding of human dignity and third, the focus on the quality of results being said of the quality of the process. this has been poisonous to the black underclass because one, the black church is more and more being ignored as an agent of public virtue which has been and had been one of the black

churches historic functions. the less religion that you have in society, the more and more people turn to government to make sense of their lives and to mediate human action. this was of the communist religion to society. human dignity has been perverted in ways that force us all to increase the vision of a few eletes who recently plan and pose their wealth on the rest of them and in the pursuit of the quality of economic results for all has created new pathways for justified in justice. today it's called people doing their fair share.

why then does the black underclass continue to struggle so many years after the civil rights movement? martin luther king drama about an america where men and women are ivan you read it on the basis of their character rather than their skin color. the fight for equal dignity, however, was derailed by the political clout. the goal of equality measured by of comes, sought by the means of government directed racial inclusion programs overshadowed the more challenging campaign for true solidarity based on widespread recognition of the inherent dignity of all people. beginning in the 1980's many civil-rights leaders began to identify justice on the basis of social cosmetics including how much stuff blacks did or did not

have compared to whites. number of college degrees, income disparities among all schools, the emission rates, loan approvals and the light. instead of whether or not blacks are treated as equals in our social structures. equal treatment by the local institutions may yield unexpected results but it remains a better measurement of justice than to be creating results we want. one minute step in the movement, beginning in the mid-1960s on into the 1970's was not recognizing the the most successful minority groups in america were those who pursued economic mobility to the marketplace in stuff politics so when you look at asian immigrants, when you look to the

history of jews and see other subdominant cultures who chose the marketplaces of the means of social and economic mobility as opposed to politics. much of this erosion has to do with our understanding of the role of religion in society. the tocqueville caution in the 1985 reflection on democracy america that the pursuit of liberty without religion hurt society because, quote, it tends to isolate people from one another, to concentrate every man attention upon himself and leaves open the sold to an ordinance love of material gratification. in fact, the tocqueville says it is to pyrrophyte control and

restraint that excessive and exclusive taste for well-being which men acquire in times of equal the. religion makes up other regarding. i've recently said every black person apprehended for robbing stores in a flash mog should have their court hearing not in front of a judge, but facing the 30-foot statue of martin luther king jr. at his washington memorial site. each sees should be asked what do you think dr. king would say to you right now? i was not angry when i initially saw young blacks robbing convenience stores across america i was actually brought to tears. we need to take a closer look at the stone face with a presence

tears like the one set by native american in the 70's announcement about evolution. i'm actually old enough to remember those. it showed cody shedding tears after seeing pollution in america that previously had none. it ended with the tagline people start pollution, people can stop it. if he were alive today he might proclaim with the flash mog as people start them and people can stop them. the dream had been realized by many african-americans who had been able to take full the advantage of the opportunities made available through the quest for justice. what can never have imagined a few decades after his i have a dream speech a black family

would be in the white house not as maintenance or kitchen staff, but as the first family. digit years after the civil rights struggle affirmed black dignity, we have young black people ransacking stores in groups to bid every time a flash mob lutes it is robbing him of his dream all over america from philadelphia to chicago to here in washington, d.c. young people could be contributing to the common good but instead are treating of their dignity for the adrenalin rush of stealing from others. we will not tolerate such reprehensible behavior here says the district of columbia mayor vincent gray. he goes on to say some news coverage of this incident was reported residence questioning whether the robbery could have been morally justified.

actually, says the mayor, both morality and the law are quite clear. it is wrong to steal from others, and if people do not obey the law they will be apprehended, arrested and prosecuted. what she highlights is a troubling regression of public virtue and civil rights. king's treen is one of harmonized morality and the law. however, king's dream will never be realized in america as long as the country continues the mythologies of freedom does not require personal integrity and character. proponents of sociological and psychological furious move the stores because the minority feel disenfranchised and marginalized from the mainstream society and this in fact may be true they

may be legitimate feelings. what king taught us however is that political and social frustration does not justify breaking the law. perhaps if these disenfranchised users are more familiar with life under slavery and jim crow or cared about the legacy of civil rights heroes like surrogate marshall and rosa parks and john lewis and in the young and others mentioned earlier they can tap into the imagination of an pure lewicke generation. formed by the virtue of religion who pursue public justice by pursuing public virtue. in dillinger culture responsible for this and society that does not value for many young people in the ways of prudence and

justice, courage, self control and the like why would we be surprised that the convenience stores are being robbed by useful mobs in the society that doesn't value private property and foster the spirit of envy and class warfare through the wealthy distribution why should we be surprised young people don't value someone else's property or in the use of more technical terms, stuff. radical individualism and more relativism defines the ethics of the era in criminal flash mobs expose our progressive failure. as we celebrate, we must lament the fact that america's abandonment of virtue the legal and economic katulis that could

in our recession for good. in solidarity with the mayor gray why stand in front of the statue with a new dream that the resurgence of the virtue would give rise to a generation of morrill and law-abiding citizens that in this way blacks will truly experience the dream of king and others who died for justice. and unfortunately, we have this bifurcation between religious life and public virtue, and those things that make the value and the virtue and the principles of the country actually work. for example, religious life actually affects education success. a series of 2010 studies and howard university's journal of negro education, one of

america's oldest continuous academic journals focusing on black people reported how church involvement increases education success in the inner cities. in the article titled safe in the inner-city the urban black church and student educational outcome, dr. brian baird, an education professor of the state university of new york, describes the unique contributions black churches played in cultivating successful students in the inner cities. he observes that, quote, religious socialization reinforces attitudes come out looks, behavior's and practices particularly through individuals, could fence to and adoption of the goals and expectations of the group, and of the quote. these are conducive to the positive educational outcomes.

in fact now back in 2009 they reported another article that for the black inner-city youth reports religious services often the black-and-white achievement gap was eliminated. the black-and-white achievement gap was be eliminated simply because students in low performing schools and bad neighborhoods were actively involved in religious life and in religious communities. baird reports one of the most important advantages of the churches is that they provide a community where black students are deluged both for their academic success and more broadly as human beings than members of the society would promise to read with talent to contribute to and from whom success is expected. church is also a firm has trusted members of the community that celebrate academic success

and the practices that produce its which override the low expectations communicated at school. additionally, baird highlights the way in which black churches because they are equipped to deal with families are affected at sustaining and encouraging parental education voltmann from the heart as well as providing context to have regular contact with other adults for the role modeling and mentoring. baird is not alone also in the same journal from howard university 4,273 black students studying and was found that family and religious life and religious social capital are the most important predictors for positive students success.

those students in the low performing schools in the cities involved in religious life outside of the family is the second greatest predictor of them actually going to college. and as i said earlier, it eliminates the black-white achievement gap. the office concludes that students with active religious life involved parents and active social life of greater opportunities and traces in this future. it would look for example at issues like the minimum wage we recognize of course but emotionally this is a winner. people love to think about the consequences of raising the minimum wage but i would like to submit often people don't think about the long-term consequences of raising the minimum wage

because we live in a world where people act and make decisions on the basis of something called incentives. such an increase actually hurts minorities. it actually hurts teens and those that don't have skills in the long run because minimum-wage jobs are usually entry-level positions filled by employees with limited work experience and few job skills. when the government forces employers to pay their workers more than a job productivity demands of employers in order to stay in business, generally respond by hiring fewer low-skilled labor. low-skilled workers become too expensive to employ creating a new army of permanent part-time employees. the government wage increases

when people forget the money used to cover the increase does not magically appear. it has to come from somewhere since americans love the best products for the lowest prices businesses will not likely pass that on to consumers in the form of higher prices. they will instead reduce the cost by laying off workers with the lowest skills, relocating jobs or the entire business in the country skirting wall altogether by paying employees under the table or by hiring illegal immigrants. university of connecticut professor estimates a 1 dollar rise in the minimum wage in the current economic environment would further reduce teen on employment opportunities by at least 140,000 jobs.

one of the modern manifestations of the racist ideology is the assumption that everyone else operates on the basis of incentive except african-americans. blacks don't think. they simply do what they are told, told where to live, where to shop, where they have to send their children to school and so on. trees, freedom from preference, options, personal decision and so on. those are more sophisticated people with your little thinking skills, those who deserve freedom. often these are called eletes. and the rest of us must do with the eletes say. they enjoy their own freedom but do not really believe that others are capable of exercising the same freedom just yet.

so they position themselves as surrogate decision makers for others who aren't nearly as enlightened as they are. if they were considered people with equal dignity, the prospective employee would be free to negotiate their own wage for employment based on her honest assessment of her needs and skills and capacities with a potential employer. offers and counteroffers would be made without the oversight or intervention of sarah get third-party is because they would be the expectation of both the employee and the employer that they know what is best for themselves. if black parents were considered people of equal dignity, they would not have third party elites who do not have their own children in low performing schools to all the incoming

minority parents where they can and cannot put their children. the eletes with their magical capacity to process complex knowledge they always seem to know what is best for everyone. it is in fact patriarchal condensation. we know better than you people. so what they want to do is remove a decision, remove the decision from the hands of the low people into the hands of people who have greater capacity. this was the black experience during slavery and during jim-crow was the society committed to removing black men and women from the cultural and economic process these so that they could not be able to make their own decisions and experience liberation for themselves keeping

african-americans out of the process, relive the power and keep them from experience liberty and under the subjection of others. for political and economic empowerment will only come to african-americans trapped in the under class when we all recognize that when we take the decisions from the masses and put them into the hands of the few we undermine people's dignity. if you believe people have dignity and capacity for reason and virtue, you will put more and more decisions in their hands. if you believe however some people have superior wisdom, more so than others as a class

then you will put more and more decisions in the hands of the few to rule over everybody else. this is a defacto cash system as long as america does not respect the dignity of those of the underclass and stop talking their shoes for them, our nation is going to go bankrupt. the institution that built this country are going to erode and subside. so i long for the day that blacks are respected enough that their virtue drives the economic and political liberation on what it means to be human and what it means to make those want to pursue the virtues of religious liberty and political liberty

and economic liberty. just as parents remove decisions from their children who are not mature, it is actually on believably insulting that we would right public policy that would treat our class's of people as if they are perpetual children. this is with the civil rights movement at the core was about collaborating african-americans from the control of others who sought to make their decisions for them as if they were children so during the civil rights movement use all men carrying the cards that read i am a man. i am not a boy and we want to live in a country that treats us as for individuals with capacity and virtue and potential to make

those decisions for ourselves and our families that lead to our own political and economic liberation. so until that time where those liberties are experienced by those the bottom where their dignity is honored i will remain black and tired. thank you very much. [applause] we will take some questions or comments at this time if you have any questions. >> i want to thank jennifer for the invitation and i appreciate what you have to say, and i would imagine on most points i agree with you being a national conservative, a woman of faith and from the south and georgia i

understand where you are coming from. my question though is -- this will be a topic of conversation. >> in some things i feel like i don't want to give white america eighth half. i recognize as a black american woman i have a personal responsibility for everything that i do and my mother raised me in such a way that i have comb training so there are things i will you will not -- but, as we have these public conversations, i don't want to give white america a path. we talk about these slash mobs and i believe those are kids with no home training because there is no way on earth that my mom, even now as i approached 40 there are things i'd better not do and i don't even think about it.

that is a result of home training basic and simple but there are kids in this world who do feel so angry they are black, tired and angry. so how we have this conversation without giving them a pass on things they don't deserve a pat on? >> that is a fantastic question and here is where i emphasize the rule of law. what is important about the way in which our strides instructor is if you look at the constitution, if you look at the bill of rights and things like that, we have to hold people accountable to the fact they are not even apply in a law equally so we have the rule of law and this is one of the things -- this is one of the duties of the civil rights movement was calling america to its own standards. we cannot give people a pass when they are committing acts of injustice against human dignity

which are against their own standards. so where there is injustice, where humans are being treated with injustice with their dignity being undermined we want to call that out and some have argued that one of the rules african-americans have played in this country is to be the conscience of the country because when you were in a dominant culture you have a lot of blind spots and often takes brown and yellow people to raise the flag like soccer raises a yellow card and says wait a minute, you may not realize this but some of your actions have actually hurt leone opportunities for success. so we absolutely need to continue to speak about issues related to white privilege. we need to continue to speak about issues related to what i often call anglo normative the,

things are just normal and every one else is simply come formed. you will remember, for example, that ridiculous article that came out in psychology today on duty that said black women just aren't beautiful, and there was a greater example of this anglo normative be that says is normal and everyone else conformed. so we have to continue to address that because we've are all morally from ourselves and have our own blind spots and we as a group can collectively have a blind spot to get as we have to continue to talk about those and i'm happy to do that which means i don't have any friends. [laughter] i get attacked on both sides because i am equally concerned

that in some ways both ignoring the problem can actually expose some racist ideology you don't even care enough about to be concerned about the issue but then on the other side, you have the patriarchy with intentions that actually undermines dignity about treating people like their patch with your children instead of treating them like adults. the issue of home training is important, i want to start now but i won't. these institutions like the family and church have eroded in the black community particularly appalled generation. the hip-hop generation represents the most unchurched a group of the african-americans. so we have to begin to ask questions about where is the

church. so prince university asked is the black church in demand because that institution from the moral virtue has been on the decline in terms of actually influencing the generation because home training was brought it wasn't just at home it was home and community so anybody at the church could smack you until you to shut up and pull your pants and spit the gun out. those are things that are important. thank you. >> good to see you again. i want to follow on your point which is important. my sister is black and adopted into our family and 16. going through some significant questions that force the family -- these are things that have been enforced now but it's different because there is a draw to the head of a culture.

there's a rap sheet now my sister has involved in some activities and i won't get into the details of that other than to make the point the draw to the activities that are detrimental it's hard to have a conversation with the level that you are having because the initial categories aren't even there necessarily. it's not easy but is accessible. what can the dominant culture or let's just say the people of christians or people in churches or strong moral categories what can we do to make it easier to start from the categories of dignity and bling and things that are attractive to try to express their identity to be part of a group that may be isn't something that looks like their friends would have a hard time understanding we can tease that out a couple different ways

one high level questions and the family context what can a preacher do or a person who has that vested authority to bring about the question the hypocrisy that i agree exists the reform is needed to the sort of standards of america's founding and how we honor freedom and the gift that is and that all or created equal as given by god were created with of the legal rights. how do we hold those values firmly in the church context and keep pushing those forward so these conversations are a lot easier to have because they become flash points or how to cross the line so i'm not sure what can be coming from outside but it's tough to even get their estimate of course. those are very important

questions. you know, we have this tension i'm an academic, i like using big words because it makes people think i'm smart and i get raises because of it and contracting and i love it. i love circling the cloud. but they're comes a time when you have to talk to the real people. sorry, academics. they talk to you in st. and how do you challenge people to think of the these categories in ways that make sense? seems like virtue, and i am not promoting these artists exclusively, i just want to say that as a caveat but if you listen to the song about love, and in the context of that, he sort of displays how misdirected love comes on sabotage by

telling a story we ask is a also a good job storytelling people and the consequences of their actions i think that we often forget about the power of story of narrative, and in my own work quite seem people who are the best principles argue or horrible what storytelling and it's utterly the storytelling that draws people into the principal's and embeds it. so the biblical narrative, two-thirds of this story so i wonder what would happen if we were better storyteller's about these principles and actually were presented in the active fleet. so people could actually see the full tapestry of what it means

to be a person to live and virtue. people understand what that means. i could also give a lecture on sloths and the consequences of that in a person's human dignity and implication. oregon just say i get that. we have to do a better job of putting these things and stories because it is the story that compels action, ethics, right? so your sister is actually splicing herself into an ongoing narrative, and actually i argue many people on the left and in the middle and on the right, not much in the right, on the left and the way left invite people into a story coming utopian story the way things could

possibly be in a lot of people have these principles with the founding so i began to wonder about ways to tell the stories first in such ways people safe where can i read more about that, what's the principle behind that because we have the story first. in terms of the religious leaders, i would say this on the one hand there still needs to be the type of leadership that prophetically speaks to the racial injustice and is able to highlight and see the ways in which the society is including in solidarity. the ways in which the social breakdown that affect sola thus but we have to recognize people

have stories and narratives' and so we have to know people's stories. this is one of the consequences of the one-size-fits-all approach to giving social justice that everyone doesn't have the same story. everyone is and in that position that they are in for the same reason, and sometimes you have to unpack that story to know how to help them, so those who are closest to the people like the pastors have better information of how to help people, so what this actually involves, and forgive me for using this ancient principle is to actually love your neighbor, to actually get to know your neighbor you get to know their story. for example is often the case that a lot of children in the inner cities grew up experiencing a tremendous amount of trauma, and it directly affects their brain, it damages the brain increase learning disabilities. the disorders so when they go to school they can't make.

that has to be taken into account. you have to actually know people. and so i am of the thinking that pastors me to continue to speak about the culture, prophetically helping people understand the ways in which virtue is celebrated were not submitted to sort of surgery to their own faith in the community but also to help people understand we have to actually embed ourselves into the broken is to bring hope and peace and create a new imagination and one of the things i think that plagues people stuck in cycles of poverty is hopelessness of the future is going to be different than the past and these principles can actually help people walk in to connect themselves in a different

narrative by offering a new vision by what it means to be a key person. we need to do more of that, more encouragement, more of this and because that actually recognizes of the person has dignity it's not determined, the state is not determined in terms of your own political and economic life. so how can we inspire a new imagination so that you can come out of that and go on to this? those stories are incredibly important and i think in part it is a great tragedy if the current pop generation not being as familiar with the civil rights generation struggles, those that live in jim crow and slavery. i grew up hearing these stories. i came back from a family reunion so i heard all these stories again we don't want to go back. the good old days, not for us.

the good old days in the future. i'm not going back to 1950 because i wouldn't be standing here if that's the case. i think those things are important. good question. >> in the back. >> i have a couple questions. you mentioned the closed disparities in the inner-city schools. what was the effective charge on white students? was there a gap between the charge and the undercharged students and my other question is why you think there was a breakdown in the institution and you mentioned that is the cause of a lot of the problems that we are having now been you didn't explain why that happened and when that happened. l. blum makes a similar point where he says civil rights arguments are naturally not all law based so which came first

and why? >> to answer the first question, in the research it's really interesting. for suburban white kids, religion involvement versus the moss believe cannot religious involvement is a little different because the type of things that reinforce success are imbedded in the middle class communities. so, the difference is that within the context of the church in low-income neighborhoods it speaks against a lot of the self sabotaging modes of living in the community. when you live in a community that socially reinforces those things that lead to success, those being reinforced in the church don't bring nearly -- don't bring nearly the effect of when those things are absent.

particularly when those things can first, the chicken and the egg, not an expert in those legal arguments to know per say, however, i will say this it had much to do with this understanding of justice related to outcomes versus process. results versus process and when the human dignity became aligned with people's free participation to actually fail the participation to participate in the process and compete equally when it became about outcomes it redefines what the civil rights was to read so you see this today with the language of economic parity.

so we determine the quality on the basis of economic outcome and material manifestation rather than recognizing ecology on the basis of human dignity and that has some began to explode and expand in the 1960's and you can see this for example with the program initiated by lbj and the so-called war on poverty which i think we are losing to some degree. those programs initially began as a way of course to actually get people off the great society program and would continue of course to bring the sort of parity of the quality within the

public square and unfortunately the paradigm, the measure of the political and economic liberation and mobility because of the programs became reduced to those things people have verses those that do not have those things and the control government satisfied in terms of contracting for businesses and things like that, so i personally believe that this process versus result understanding of what it means to be a human person and to live a virtuous life was the beginning of undermining this distinction between to whom does the constitution of life and how and how we measure that in terms of long-term results?

thank you very much. [applause]