costs only $500 why? because i move on the cost volume learning curve headed towards the chimney. the place where my thing called a cell phone is a huge find. remember, oil, destin iranian cardoza commodities. what happens when you create demand for commodity? the price goes up. the cell phone, solar cells, those are technology. what happens when you create demand for technology? price goes down. you know that from your iphone. i love johns hopkins. come back a year later and i say jessica, how did that cellphone workout? tom, it changed my life. i've been raising money out the walls -- wazoo. cds lights? i'm going to power them with solar energy on the roof of the building. but it's going to cost you $100

more money. what? what would jessica say? she would say tom, tom. remember the cell phones you sold me? it changed my life and gave me new functions i never had before. it was great. tom, you spoke in this auditorium twice coming and you know we already have flights flights. [laughter] we don't care where the photons and electrons come from so unless the mayor of d.c. comes along and says from now want you are going to pay the full cost of those lights come you're going to pay the cost of the co2 in the atmosphere, the troops protecting the oil in the persian gulf, they are now when to cost you $200. what happens then? jessica gets on her cell phone which now only costs $25. [laughter] and she says tom commodores sola lights, i will take ten.

then what? i'm heading down the cost value and curve on my solar lights. sure there is a transition. but remember, as you go through this transition, the unit cost of energy will be higher, but you will be using less energy so the actual bill, okay, if the system works as it would in other technologies would actually be lower. and ultimately you are headed for a world where the solar cells will be as cheap as tennis shoes. but when you were dealing with a new technology, this is the one -- you have to understand weakness of green power and power in general. it's not like the cell phone, it's not like a computer. when you went from your typewriter to the computer you would have paid anything. when you went from a fixed line to a cell phone he would pay anything because you were getting new functions. when you go from green energy from dirty energy to cream energy, you don't get the new function coming to get the same heating and cooling and mobility

and the same light and therefore you get people to switch who have to have a price. >> last question. back there. >> rye and jacobs from the u.s. institute. ayman in turn currently in d.c. and i find myself being used for my ability to rely on the social media and use social media more than two thoughts and ideas that i have. [laughter] and perhaps that is because i am young and unwise but i also feel that perhaps you have an over saturation point with media and the hyper connected world that you are speaking of where we rely on the communication told but we don't care about the idea is transported on it and we don't care about the people who come up with ideas coming and i wonder if you can comment on that, both of you or one of you. >> well, i've gotten in trouble. so don't tell anybody that i

said this. but i've never been on atwitter. i've never been on facebook and i've never smoked a cigarette and i am planning on the sameñ old story. [laughter]ñññ because i do believe it is about the content, you know, and that i find that it's really hard at least for me to focus on traditional reporting, writing, thinking and editing when i would be tweeting or whatever every second or posting something every second. so i famously talk the talk of globalization, but i do not walk the walk. >> content doesn't matter to you if you want to have your present position for the rest of your life. if you want to get a better job, content matters. [laughter] thank you all.

[applause] up next, shannen rossmiller talks about the operation she carried out with the fbi. this is about 25 minutes. >> good afternoon. thank you for joining us here at the heritage foundation. as director of lectures and seminars, it's my privilege to welcome everyone to the lewis lerman auditorium, and of course welcome those who joined on the heritage of.org website. we would ask everyone in house that you make that courtesy check that the cell phones have been turned off as we prepare to begin a will be appreciated. we will force post to the to post the program within 24 hours on the website for everyone's

future reference, and of course our internet viewers are welcome at any time to send questions or comments simply addressing those e-mails to speaker@heritage.org. our guest today is proof that one person can indeed make a difference. after 9/11 as the mother of three in rural montana who was also serving as a municipal judge, she immediately began formulating a plan to respond to this unprecedented attack on the united states. her efforts succeeded even as she will admit beyond imagination. ultimately joining forces with the fbi, she participated in sting operations and pioneered digital entrapment tactics. at the forefront of today's war on terror. through her work a new field of espionage, burt, counterintelligence has been founded we are pleased to welcome shannen rossmiller to the foundation today. each of us goes for a special

debt of gratitude for her courage. we look forward to hearing in greater detail from her about her saugatuck as an unexpected patriot. shannen, welcome to heritage. [applause] >> i want to thank the heritage foundation for having me here today it is an honor and dillinger intimidating so i'm going to do the best i can. but i just wish to make a few quick remarks about my book, just a little bit about my store and the menendez and we are going to do some questions and answers. on a 9/11 i didn't know much about their ideologies and even less about the arab world and its culture. however the events of 9/11 to my core and eventually caused me to look within myself to find the courage and determination to fight on a level that hadn't been seen before. at that time i started, my question fighting terrorism, i had no idea what could imagine the work i took in pioneering

counterintelligence on the internet would become known as cyber counterintelligence and come to one of the keys to fighting terrorism in the world. to my effort the u.s. government would come to prosecute two of the largest cases of domestic terrorism and espionage in the u.s. history since 9/11. in the case of army specialist ron anderson, who received the largest conviction to date having been sentenced to five life terms for his crime against our country. and the second was the state of pennsylvania -- michael to provide the trans-alaska pipeline as well as energy infrastructural in the united states and what he envisioned as the 911 ploch of energy. over the past ten years i worked 200 cases of threats of terrorism against the united states and its interest abroad. with the tenure anniversary of the tragic events of 9/11 fast approaching it is important that we not forget the day that changed the country and the will for ever cause the course of history of mankind to forever be

altered. the americans suffered immeasurable personal loss of nearly 3,000 souls that they and thousands of soldiers have given their lives in afghanistan and iraq. the al qaeda terrorist steve america has to tell the american spirit of perseverance. as a american i believe if our perseverance is a country is to grow and continue we need to identify what it means to be an american today in the post 9/11 bald and what we can do collectively and individually to pay it forward by selfless good deeds made to the community into the country to continue to make america the greatest country in the world. throughout history individuals have stepped up and have given themselves to become pioneers for the betterment of mankind. often we believe that he is to prevent us from doing the unthinkable to affect change. however as each and every one of us looks within ourselves to offer that can only make a

difference. it is our hope that in sharing the personal stories and experience of fighting terrorism people will identify with and themselves what it is they can offer finally to the country but to the communities to change for the betterment of all. so, my question that i would pose to each one of you is can one person make a difference against the face of odds and the answer is yes but the caveat to positively in the change requires each and everyone of us to identify where and how we can give of ourselves to make a difference. finally i will leave you with one final fault and that is please ask yourself what can you do to meet your community and the world a better place for mankind. [applause] >> i will help you start off. until i understand in the audience and the odd sight he were recovering from surgery, where were you at 9/11 and why would you start this?

>> on the evening of 9/11 and suffered a fracture in my pelvis so that left me lead up for five weeks it was very emotional and dramatic and the events continue to unfold on television it was impacted me to the point where i wanted to try to understand these people and how they could do what they did and then eventually to get a step further to start communicating and interacting with them. >> where did you find the network? >> well i was watching a news broadcast on cnn in 2001 and it talked about a website where the terrorist communications and i wrote down the website and that's where it all started. >> please don't get cnn credit. [laughter] is there any comment from the audience we would be glad to

have questions, too, but it is interesting as we noted in the text of your book also i believe no one in the family knew you were doing this. >> well, obviously they had seen me viewing things and learning and reading about terrorism going on in the war on terror, but i haven't made it a point to inform anybody in my family. what happened is i received an intricate finally opened one morning early in the morning and it crashed the computer and so my husband was trying to recover everything it was a large amount of arabic files i finally had to explain. [laughter] that's how he came to understand what i was doing. >> any comments and questions on the stories from the audience? >> thanks so much for your -- >> [inaudible]

for your book and your loyalty to the country. i'm kelly simpson from the heritage foundation. you obviously had to mentally pass a bunch of hurdles before you could give yourself the green light to do this. some were practical like i don't know arab. i assume that you didn't know arabic. others were on the judge. i know there is a law of entrapment. can you walk us through any aspects of either the sort of logistical hurdles that were there like learning arabic, the lobby of entrapment, which is clear there is international implications, and then i was struck by your excellent interview the other day on the dhaka and reams show where you were asked at the end about personal security, whether you were never concerned for yourself or your family so if you could touch on those we would be most grateful. >> sure. i will touch on the last one first.

as far as security goes, i don't talk in detail about what that is other than to say i do have it. and over the last two years, the question is for you ever going to feel like you can not have to look over your shoulder and the in fewer, and there was a time like 2006 and 2007 that was paramount on the front burner. but with the fbi helping everything, i do have security and i met a point where i do feel comfortable. so as far as your other question, i didn't know arabic. when i first stumbled on to the website it was all arabic. the only thing i could do was look at the pictures. and they were disturbing and gory. is it a lot and i wanted to the chapter was for the translation software if anything knows about translation software you don't get the context of what is being

stated. odd evin chollet wanted to -- because i was becoming more involved in the -- i wanted to see if i could learn a language and i wouldn't say that i know arabic as an ongoing process for me what i've been doing over the years and so i'm more in the jihadis talks than arabic but that is what i needed to talk when i did it. and as far as why, doing this it is not something that i think that if i had into the background and nobody takes to make a case and then as a judge knowing how to make decisions on the evidence and things like that probably as good a chance being successful and maintaining and protecting the rights of the same time each of the cases of the especially involves anybody here in the united states entrapment is first and foremost the defense you have to ward off against. in each stage of the communications that i do i'm

always conscious of making sure that there is no entrapment, so i think that has been what is allowed my case to be solid. >> [inaudible] can you tell us about putting the book together? was it fun? did you enjoy it or was it painful? how long did it take, those sorts of comments? >> i wouldn't say it was fun. it was a process that, do know, i had a cup of waiting for a couple of years and finally with the right guidance and everything i was convinced this would be the first time for me to be able to tell my story from my perspective and the importance of what i do and why i do it and as well as, you know, point out how it impacted my life and changed everything. the life i had on

september 10th, 2001, is not the life i have now. and so with that, not only with change and sacrifice and loss and putting the book together, you know, it was -- i wrote the book in five weeks and it went right to publish in, but it was a very -- was an internal process that on a had to go back and relive the trauma of these moments that impacted by life to the point where i wanted to explain it and have it understood in the way that was meaningful to me. >> down here in the front. >> [inaudible] i have personal experience with them because i've been in the country for 26 years and visited pakistan only twice and both times for my family. what happened the first visit in

2005 [inaudible] has been established even by pakistani government as a terrorist organization. so my question to you is education for america and for jews, and it took me three hours to vent their frustration and let them know there is something about america that you can talk with them for hours and they want to learn how can they go to america. >> we need to get that message out there >> the ask how can they get american [inaudible] [laughter] how do you come to -- >> i am not your typical kind of woman or female. [laughter] i've never really been interested in things that are,

you know, attributable -- normal, thank you. [laughter] i mean, going back even to my younger years i have eight early interest in criminal behavior in particular. i sort of started studying the behavioral mindset and components very leon and having the opportunity to reflect back earlier to see where my interests let me. chongging to understand the homeland sit process of people, you know, how the arab mind thinks and is protected by culture and all the different things the impact that and i wanted to understand where the class of civilization can together or didn't come together, and so that whole process was something i took on before studying the trial cultures plan kuhl all of those things and eventually through trial and error the different

identities i see i was able to figure out what works, what gets it going so trial and error and figuring it out, that mind-set is key to almost all of it. >> what part of that communication -- how many could you follow through on, how many were not successful? it's almost as if you have a perfect batting average. >> no camano. there's plenty of times i create an identity and then ultimately mess up and discard it and create another one to read the whole process is kind of hard to explain. a trial and error figuring out what works and what didn't is a process that took some time but once i got it down and i saw that it was working and what i had to say to be able to continue engaging in the individuals things just started to go from there but it took awhile to understand the whole process and the mind set. >> what might have been to you this curious or the most

frightening? the scenario or were you gathering any? were the trying to get you involved in the plots? >> usually what i would try to do is not in a situation like that because you don't want to give them enough to make them go out and act on it. what i would try to do is i would caution everyone to communicate only with me and to communicate and extract what i can from them and that process takes some time, but probably to this day i would have to say even looking at the persons of interest in other countries like jordan and pakistan, afghanistan and wherever, probably the most deserving cases are the fact what he wanted to do in the tank crews it's still it bothers me to this day. it's very chilling. >> another question? we have one back here. >> can you tell us a little bit

about did you pose as ag jihadists and i'm curious about your opinion of the private citizens intelligence gathering. >> well, okay. first of all as far as private citizens to intelligence when i started to doing this i did it to understand and one thing kind of lead to another. but i don't think -- i would not encourage it's too easy to think that you are doing good and then you almost -- you are stepping in the role of a vigilante almost and you can impact somebody's life in a way that if you don't understand how the law works, you know, how to make a case or not everything comes together i think it can be problematic on a lot of levels, so also why a private citizen and i have done this, why wouldn't encourage other people to do it but at the same time i think there can be more training and focus on analysis and in law as the whole process comes

together on think that would make for a better and more secure approach. >> maybe you can't talk that this interesting how you are able to figure out how these people behind their online energy assuming that the use some sort of techniques to an estimate no. surprisingly. no, really -- that one of the things that did surprise me you can buy an ip address contribute to whoever is logged in and you can trace it back and then there's also the process of people don't realize how many tracks the lead on the internet and how botts connect and put together. when i put together a profile of a person i'm looking at its different from a personal profile like a one-on-one because everybody acts different and they do things different on the internet so that change and how that differs as it was a cadet is the difference of what

the internet has put together for us. but i've always been surprised that there is, you know, not a better attend to conceal or proxy ip addresses. sure, some do, but the ones that don't come that is just better for me. >> [inaudible] as an iraqi veteran i want to say thank you for what you did and who knows how many of my fellow soldiers you would have saved. you spoke about the hurdles learning arabic and i myself have tried to learn the language. but more importantly, in my interactions with the arab people, the islamic faith plays so much a part with every aspect of life. can you talk more about creating legitimacy and developing relationships with these islamists with their face in life? >> sure. yanna absolutely right. i mean, it relates to the koran

and meaning in what they're doing and justification as well. so, when i'm putting together and creating a and identity i put together a particular tried and then figure out exactly what the aspects of our and how i'm going to play those out and i usually -- earlier i would pick the ones i was more familiar with and try to make it some of the larger so i mean there is a way for me to not be known, but one of the things people don't get and it's hard to understand is exactly how important it is that their faith plays into everything that the deutsch. so in communicating and doing any kind of communication back-and-forth that is the key to doing the proper greeting to whatever you were doing for that reason that all of that plays into the legitimacy that, you know, you will turn that we want to portray. >> any other comments or

questions? >> well, thank you, shannen. we do have copies of "the unexpected patriot" available in the lobby. she would be glad to sign them in this room if you would like to purchase them and bring them in and continue conversations one-on-one the would be welcome, too. thank you again for your kind attention. [applause] >> to find out more about author shannen rossmiller come visit her website, shannenrossmiller.com. you can't understand where marks' ideas came from a less you ever said what was happening about him, and, you know, his line of so many people take offense from the line of religion of the open of the people. well, unless you know that the city where the emissaries of god, you wouldn't understand what his result was about.

one of the duties in your book is the actual unfolding of the gunfight. a step-by-step fashion in a way that seems both inevitable and a total accident that makes sense, and you get to the final moment and it has what seems to me embrum oh crap moment, the same

custer had when he got on the rich and saw what looked like all the indians down there or travis when he realized nobody was coming to save him at the alamo. he says i don't mean that. what does that tell us about how this event happened? >> i think something was bound to happen whether it was going to involve these specific individuals or others there was too much tension and mistrust. james burba said later that he thought there was a certain amount of pressure put on virgil by some of the townspeople that none of this would have occurred. i like virgil a lot and ended up feeling sorry for him. i think he tried very hard to be a good man. in the eyes of average americans today, the gunfight at the trial

involved later dhaka with a and the clintons. it seems to me that the virgil had a sort of been bumped into the background abbas had tom and friend. virgil wanted to be a good lawyer man and i think that he was very pragmatic about the way that he enforce the law. he preferred to give people the chance to back away without embarrassing them or having their pride attacked. he did his best that day to let the cowboys settled down and cried out of town and finally when he did he called on the people he trusted most, his brothers and then of course he was never going to miss an occasion like this. it was a terrible tragedy that this happened, and i think if things had happened differently in the one or two instances if he hadn't been approached by a couple of