safe, want the opportunities that this great country has to offer them, and that kind of information, that kind of training sets back those efforts, and so we have distanced ourselves from that person, those statements, and have a process underway to review the materials to ensure that mistake does not happen in the future. ..

blundell of the state of florida and is not engaged in the voter registration because of their new law and penalties associated with it. i know of the voting rights act into different articles the department of justice has the authority to review the state law to determine whether they have in fact or would in fact disenfranchise voters. can you tell me whether this is under way? >> you are correct. i can't answer the question specifically but i can say with regard to section 2 of the voting rights act the the part of justice will look at those jurisdictions that have attempted for whatever reason to restrict the ability of people to get to the polls. i think a fundamental question is raised. who are we as a nation? shouldn't we be coming up with ways we encourage more people to

get to the polls to express their views? i'm not talking about anyone in particular state effort but more generally i think for those who would consider trying to use methods and techniques to discourage people coming to the polls as inconsistent with what we say we are as a nation and i hope those kind of efforts would not be engaged that is separate and apart from what we have to do as the enforcer with regard to section 5 and section 2 of the voting rights act. >> i yield back the balance of my time. >> i would note senator grassley has asked for a second round of five minute questions. senator, there is a vote on right now. i would ask the senator of coming back deutsch here senator

grassley's hearing recognized after senator cornyn. mr. attorney general i remain very concerned that the the senate commerce science appropriations bill considered by the senate last week completely eliminates funding for the second chance act programs. the bureau of prison budget was increased by $300 million. malae no prisons are overpopulated. i understand funding and their surrounding communities safe. i think we have to focus on the reentry and rehabilitation unless somebody has a real and some kind they are going to come back out, and you consider the effect costs $75,000 or more to keep them there the idea of spending a tiny fraction of that to keep them from giving back makes a lot of sense kick.

we want to make sure the reentry rehabilitation program when a prisoner rejoin society will stay out. i think the second chance allows that. it's a tiny fraction of what we spend on prisons. sometimes a far better investment than just sending people back to prison. will you support restoration of the act, pardon me, as congress this year on the appropriations bills? >> yes. the investment of money in that way is ultimately financially smart, will save money down the road but there is a moral component to this and that is we try as best as we can to rehabilitate people and it is only through the techniques the

support the second chance act provides we can be effective fighting in that regard, so i think the decision not to fund that effort does not make a lot of sense. >> in the violence against women act and the part of justice there are important tools to improve the response to the complex issue of domestic violence. one of the tools that makes it easier for the law enforcement to apprehend a violent criminals now law enforcement is requesting the warranty that are allowed under the law. i am considering it as are others proposing an increase in the number of the visas that might be available. would that help law enforcement? >> i think it could.

i certainly want to work with you in that regard and look at the ways in which, all of the ways in which we can deal with that issue but that is one of the things we ought to be considering. >> last week, senator grassley and i work together in this congress on the fraud to protect the taxpayers act. that is an important measure given to the department of justice additional resources to fight the broad new cost the taxpayers. we joined a bipartisan effort but the bill out is now stalled in the senate. it will be paid for by fines and reimbursements and the department of justice could hire it if we pass protect taxpayers act. the american people benefit by that? >> i think obviously, senator,

mr. chairman, that is something that we want to work with you on and would support. that clearly is a benefit to the american people. >> senator grassley and i will keep wishing on that and lastly, i keep reading after the facts came out or keep saying on some of the tv programs about 16 dollar muffins. if the of the inspector general issued a report apparently some of the media never saw even though everybody else did. we want to make sure what money you have, i know that the deputy attorney caldwell. you have a copy of the cover letter as we point out first of all 16-dollar muffins is incorrect. what steps have you taken to

make sure the money is spent appropriately? >> hurston going to say we have a good inspector general, and i think that they are to be logged for the fact they did admit that they made an error in that calculation. the 6-dollar muffin in fact does not exist. we are in the process of reviewing all requests for the conference is to make sure that they adhere to the guidelines we have set out and that they are done efficiently and in a cost-effective way. but also want to point out that the conference serve a useful purpose. it is a way in which teaching occurs and thoughts and ideas are shared, policy is developed, and we shouldn't simply tax and think the conferences are not a good use of our resources. but we are committed to doing it an inappropriate way. >> thank you very much. i yield to senator grassley for his five minutes.

>> i have a couple of statements i want to ask before i make a question, and before the justice department produced and documents on wide receiver, my staff asked for additional information on the previous cases of gun walking. however on september 30th, the department declined to provide a briefing on such cases. so i'm not limited my questions to obama era operations to get steve answers if you don't get these briefings now the majority who is interested in gun walking after nine months in the majority they will help us get our questions answered. but that is one reason i don't want the inference to be less timely interest in overseeing

democrat presidents on gun walking. i want to speak to something senator schumer brought up, and i think is fact or are entirely accurate, but he referred to the wide receiver where i think he was -- he referred to the wide receiver but all of the fact sniffy case i want to make something that's been widely misunderstood to the attorney general mukasey referred to what is known as a controlled delivery in the case called hernandez. the u.s. coordinated with the mexican law enforcement, which was supposed to be waiting on the other side of the border to interdict these weapons so this is a distinct from the serious operation procedure in which no effort was made to work with

mexico. first question your justice department stood by its february 4th denial even after recent the first set of documents that showed otherwise. it's a question for you, attorney general holder, you said it and you were relying on others to correct the misstatements in the february 4th letter mr. brewer himself at minted first hand that those misstatements were false at the time that they were made. shouldn't he then have notified either you and the congress that time? >> that's one of the things that he admitted and in the testimony he said he made a mistake that god brought to my attention the fact of his prior knowledge. he admits that he made a mistake in that regard. >> you're deputy received a lot

of details about fast and furious in march, 2010 briefing. details the light speed should have raised red flags. for example, he was informed that just three winstrol wires bought 670 guns. he was informed that the atf followed them to the house and he was informed that the guns and it up in mexico so you can look at the charts with their handwriting on these things you sent a recent letter that the acting general was not told of the unacceptable tactics employed in the operation of the fast and furious during that briefing. if by an acceptable tactics you been watching straw buyers illegally buying guns without seizing them before they get to mexico, isn't that exactly what he was told?

>> i don't know exactly what he was told, bid us understand what he was told he got this briefing as a part of a monthly interaction that he had with the person who did the briefing was kenneth nilsson, the acting director of atf at that point indicated he did not know about these inappropriate tactics and nelson was also the purse that briefed the chairman and as i understand gave him pretty much the same briefing. so i'm not sure that i would draw the conclusion that you do on the basis of that from what i understand about what the nature of the interaction was and one of the things i have been told is the guns walking was not briefed to the then acting attorney general. >> one of the a efp briefing papers explicitly says the strategy was, quote, to allow

the transfer of the firearms to continue and one of them forwarding that paper says that it is, quote, likely to go to the de ag which understand is the deputy attorney general. you can't know for sure that no one informed him of that strategy. >> as i understood, he was not told the tactics, begun looking tactics. as i also been told that the picture that you have appear is of the guns recovered in the united states. this is what, again, delivered in the united states, this is what i've been told. i am not as familiar with the interaction as perhaps you are, but i have been told is that the fact is the deputy attorney general was not told about guns walking. he got the same briefing that the congressman bought from the

same person as kenneth nilsson and he has indicated that at the time that he did that briefing he was not aware of the gun blocking techniques and he didn't know as best i can remember until march of 2011 when he talks about his stomach turning. >> thank you, senator. chairman lee he has got a vote which members of the committee are asked so i'm going to begin a second round of questions from me and then we have other centers will be returning to ask additional questions. one of the central issues he spoke about in the previous statement was the law enforcement and one of the things of great concern to me is officer safety. you had spoken earlier about how we are seeing significant reductions in the crime overall coming yet increase in violence directed against officers. obviously as has been discussed tragic losses in the line of duty of officers. i wondered if he might comment

on what sorts of programs the department is currently funding, what sort of funding challenges the programs face particularly in the officer best program would be interested in other comments that you care to make about officer safety programs and grants to the department to the state and local law enforcement. >> it's something we try to focus on. we have a summit meeting after there were a number of debt of local law enforcement officers in shootings happened as a result of that, we developed something we call the officer's safety initiative where we are trying to channel information to our state and local counterparts so that they have ways in which they can receive training in how to handle themselves in violent situations as you indicated we have supported a bulletproof vest program to get them out there. we also have something called the founder program that deals again with this whole notion of how people, officers can protect

themselves in these situations we try to educate them and make them familiar with ways in which they can protect themselves and also try to isolate what are the things that most tend to result in the second officer shootings. one of the things we found is when officers tried to break into the houses that is oftentimes when you see shootings occurred. by sharing this kind of information, getting permission from the state and local counterparts and then sharing that with them, we hope that we will have an impact on what i think is a very disturbing trend of the officer shootings. >> we recently had the first ever loss of life by the police department i used to be connected with the assault on an officer by an individual who was reported on the local newspaper and has been a finalist for toxicology reports but was reported to be on these bath salts to the discussed previously. can you speak to what the path forward we might take federal lead to ensure legislation a number of us are cosponsoring

actually preceded that would criminalize these alleged leak but i think realistically dangerous substances? >> we certainly want to work with you in that regard and not the least of the reason which is it puts, as you've indicated, tragically, potentially law enforcement officers at risk, the people who use these substances obviously putting themselves at risk, and we don't want to have a situation where we are being affected with regard to the more traditional drugs and then we have these new ones, these synthetic drugs popping up that have the same impact or the same possibility of devastating communities in a way that the more traditional drugs have. so, we want to work with youtube identify with the current problems are. i think we always have to be mindful of new situations, new trends, we have to be flexible, we have to be responsive, and i think one of the ways in which we can do that is to interact with certainly members of this committee but our state and local counterparts to get a

sense of what is going on out there and how can we in the federal government assist. >> were governor in delaware has taken action to deal with this and i would be happy to share with you in your department what results we have seen. let me ask in the hernandez case that senator grassley was asking about in regards to the 2007 memo that has been discussed do you know if they actually lost track of weapons that got to mexico? >> i don't know. i have focused on how fast and furious and that had happened while i was attorney general. i'm not as familiar with the hernandez case. >> thank you very much for your testimony. senator cornyn? >> thank you mr. chairman. mr. holder, let me just try to tie up some loose ends. you agree that on february 4th of the letter written to senator

grassley that with the allegation that the atf sanction not allowed them to the straw purchaser who then transported them into mexico was false that letter dated february 4th, 2011, is itself false? >> we don't know. what i said is it contains inaccurate information. >> is that calls? >> i don't want to quibble with you but i think that it implies people making a decision to defeat and that is and what was going on. people were in good faith getting what they thought was correct information to senator grassley. we now know that information was not correct. >> if you will agree it was false that's not true, do you agree with that? >> i would say it's not accurate. >> did the person that wrote this letter on february 4th,

2011, have fever been disciplined or otherwise held accountable for providing false information to a united states senator? >> as i indicated the people that wrote the letter acted in good faith and with all but what they were sending was in fact accurate information. the people supplying the information thought that it was accurate. at some point somebody in that team did not get good information and that is one of the things that the inspector general i hope would be able to determine. >> did mr. brewer no better than what was represented in the february 4 letter? was he privity to either of the memos july 5th, 2010? he said april, 2010. by the way what office does he hold in the department of justice? >> keys for the criminal division. >> why would he knowing as he did back in july of 2010 near

the operation fast and furious allow a letter that went out on the department stationery february 4th, 2011 why would he want a letter that was false to the present position of the department justice? >> kristoff the briefing that was about white receiver that will send about fast and furious. >> do you know the difference between wide receiver and fast and furious? they are different operations. >> so do you know the differences, the factual differences between wide receiver and fast and furious? >> there are a number of differences both in scope and in terms of time. the bush administration is the one does start at wide receiver, the obama administration is where fast and furious began. >> are you winning this or do you actually know? do you know wide receiver was done in conjunction with the government of mexico and the intention of the plan was to

follow the weapons, and neither was there the intention to follow the weapons on fast and furious nor did mexico know that the united states government was allowing the guns to walk into the hands of the cartels, did you know that? >> i have not tried to equate the two. i'm not trying to equate white receiver. >> i'm asking if you know the difference between the two. >> what i know about white receiver, what you've said is in fact correct there are memos that talk about this that are related to the wide receiver, but again i am not trying to equate the two. >> when you got senator grassley's letter on generally 30th, 2011, why didn't you investigate? >> i did, i asked people on my staff to look into the material concerns raised in the letters for january 27th letter i believe in the january 30 aflutter there were two letters that you gave me on i think the

30 for the 41st of that and i asked people on my staff to look into that asking questions within the department about the material that was contained. >> and of course that was just shortly after the letter that senator grassley gave you and the well-publicized murder of brian terrie, the law enforcement. >> of the letters were addressed to the acting head of the atf kenneth nilsson when he gave them -- >> who works for you. >> i believe you told senator whitehouse you thought your staff made the right decision not bringing the fuss and furious tactics to your attention, is that correct? >> no -- what i said is that there was no indication of material that they reviewed that contained anything about the tactics that we used and as a result there was no need for them to bring to my attention

though reports. if in fact there was in those reports indications of a gun walking the should have brought that to my attention and that is what the assistant attorney general said was the mistake that he made when he heard about gun walking he should have brought that to my attention of the attorney general. >> can you name one person that has been held accountable for this operation? in the department of justice? >> we have made a number of changes with regard to the personnel both in the phoenix office as well as the atf headquarters and i will certainly await the report that comes out of the inspector general and i will assure you and the american people people will be held accountable for the mistakes made in connection with fast and furious. >> thank you. thank you for coming back. senator franken, do you have any questions? >> i'm sorry that i haven't been here. we had a committee meeting, so i

missed the last two and a half hours. before i begin i want to align myself with the comments on the at&t and t-mobile merger, the antitrust division's have largely dormant under the previous set ministration and i am very pleased under your leadership the department is willing to send a message that antitrust law is still relevant and should be applied to the competitive merger. thank you. i know that you have had a long day so i just have one question. as you know there is an epidemic of bullying against lesbian, gay and transgender students in the nation's schools, nine out of ten of the kids are bullied in school, one third skipped school

in the last month because they felt on safe. these kids are missing school, going as far as committing suicide and literally being bullied to death. the nation doesn't have a law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation of gender identity in our public schools. general holder, i have to build a student nondiscrimination act cut fixed assets and co-sponsored by 44 centers and coding of the chairman and almost all of the democratic members of the committee and the help committee. it's past appearances before this committee, the department of justice has a lot of goals of this act with the nondiscrimination act and in fact it's even acknowledged lgbt bullying was the greatest growth area in the civil rights dhaka

it. but even though this administration is publicly and formally supported other rights bills like the employment nondiscrimination act with respect to the marriage act does not yet publicly support the student nondiscrimination act. general holder, does this administration support this bill or does it not? >> i think the operative word that you used is yet. i will go back and try to see where we stand and why we are not in a place where i think we ought to be formally because i think you are right as you look at the steps this administration has taken with regard to similar issues. we have been i think an inappropriate place in the right place and with regard to the bill that you are talking about

i hope we can get to the appropriate place relatively soon. >> thank you very much. i hope that is before we get to the floor and on the bill. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> attorney general holder, i want to thank you for being here everyone has had a chance to ask their questions and everything has been said sometimes more than once or twice or three times, but i appreciate you being there and as i said, by the beginning of my statement you are a part of the national security team and i will you go see you can get back to those issues that affect us. thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman.

>> in global conversations [inaudible conversations] >> extremism and liberty has no

bye yes. let me remind you also moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. >> he lost the presidential election to lyndon johnson but barry goldwater's idea is galvanized the conservative movement. the senator from arizona is feature on the series the contenders from the goldwater institute in phoenix life tonight at eight eastern.

in his new autobiographical narrative decorated veteran and best selling author a started telling about my symptoms, jumping up in the middle of the night running outside without even knowing what was going on, you know, the car honked behind me i would be out of my own car just angry attacking the car behind me and he said to me have you ever been in a war? and that hit me hard in the middle of this room with 80

people and i started bawling, snot coming out of my nose, it was have you ever been in a war. that simple. he finally got me that and said you got ptsd. have you ever heard about it? now a discussion on preventing military suicide from health programs available to veterans. uom this morning's washingtonhw journal, this is 25 minutes.n b. >> host: veterans day continues here on c-span washington journal let me iduceu introduce you to the next guest marg is a seniorior fellow fellow of the center for new american security. she has spent much of her academic career becoming a specialist in military manpower and personnel, issues with military families, and overall quality of life for the military. she is the co-author a report on military suicide.

we will learn more from her about the size and scope of the problem and what the military and other organizations are doing to address it. "time" has a cover story today on military suicide for veterans day. give us a sense of the size of the problem for those serving and for veterans. guest: as we look at our experience over 10 years of war, we are distressed that the rate of suicide among service numbers has increasing to a rate much higher than the comparable civilian population. that is the most of those who are serving. we have less information about suicide among veterans. we're concerned as many as 18 veterans today are losing their lives to suicide. that is an estimate. we hope the number would be

lower, but it might be higher. host: why are you so pessimistic about the situation? guest: every time we lose a service member or veteran to suicide, they have lost their personal battle and we have lost a battle. we can hope efforts to redress the situation are improving and we may eventually win the war. currently, we're losing the battle several times a day. host: what we know about the causes for the increase in suicide? guest: suicide is a complicated issue. it is an individual issue. we have tried to understand if it is linked to the point. it seems obvious that after 10 years of war, the increase in rates would be tied to the war itself. the day and confound us -- the data confound us. army members who commit suicide or often deployed.

in the other services, we do not see the link. it is especially confusing. host: these two ports have had a higher proportion of people from the national guard and reserve. they may be getting multiple deployments and then integrating into civilian life. do they have particular issues? guest: we are especially concerned about them. many of the programs and efforts to address suicide have an emphasis on watching others and help to recognize when people exhibit warning signs. with the guard and reserve, we are concerned they are away from the support network. they're not touching their buddies. that is of concern. they do have special issues. host: you write about some of the causes. there is an interesting discussion about a sense of

purpose and one house in the military, the adrenalin, the sense of mission. when you come home and integrate, there is a struggle for real meaning. i was doing meaningful work before and now i am sitting at a desk. what can be done? that is the reality of life. what can be done to help people adjust to the change in their environment? guest: being useful and feeling you belong are two critical project of factors for suicide. when guardsmen and reservists come home from having done extremely meaningful work, and belonging to a cohesive unit they may not feel family and friends fully understand what they have done or that they belong. if they are facing in plymouth struggles, they are especially at risk. -- if they are facing employment struggles, they are especially at risk. host: there are also many cases

of depression being dealt with in communities. with the large influx of soldiers coming home, it is important for us to understand the potential issues facing them as they reintegrate into society. meg harrell is our guest. we will take telephone calls. you can also tweet us. what is the impact on the military of the increased suicide rates? what is it doing tomorrow? it doing to morale? guest: some would say they are small numbers. the reality is every time a unit loses a sailor, soldier, or marine, the effect of that is

tremendous. we hear from commanders this is something they are dealing with everyday. we're trying to ensure their service members are safe. host: requested by twitter -- a question by twitter. james asks if the training that stresses brotherhood to the end could be part of the problem. guest: i do not see how training that emphasizes brothership and the sense of cohesion could be part of the problem. host: we of this question by twitter about whether the increased number of suicides is because of the increased number of veterans. guest: there is an increasing number of veterans. we do not think the number of suicides is strictly related to veterans.

the rate of suicide is not related to the numbers. we do not know which veterans we're losing to suicide. we do not know if they are veterans of iraq and afghanistan or of an older generation. that is because of the lack of efficient reporting. there are only 16 states that indicated in the death data whether someone was a former service members. the data for the other 34 states are extrapolated. host: who is working to increase the reporting? guest: the states themselves need to make the adjustment in their death reporting data to indicate whether an individual who died by any means is a former service members. there is currently an effort between dod and va to match that data with social security numbers to proactively identify

veterans we have lost. host: when service members come home, is there a screening process to identify those who might be at risk? guest: there is the post- deployment health assessment that each returning service member completes to determine if they need follow-up care. this is while they're still on active duty. in the past, the pdha has been problematic in the way that people take it. in the past, we have heard from service members that commanders encourage them to downplay their potential problems. the concern was it would delay them from getting home to their families. they were all eager to return home to their families. the reality is we need to know which service members are likely to have problems so we can help them. that is being addressed. there is a law that says each of those must be administered on a one-on-one basis with eight

trained health provider -- with a trained health provider. that should help. host: does the information adequately follow the service member when they move from active to veteran status? guest: that is the concern. symptoms appeared later. the questionnaire may not be fully indicative of problems they may have later. it is a challenge. host: let's take our first question. caller: my question is, the suicide rate of the military has a lot to do with the love and care for the troops go into no- win wars and the guilt and shame

when we come home from family. they do not really care. i feel the country has lost god and country, respect for each other. bring our troops home to clean our country up. host: respect to the troops, he thinks that may be a contributing factor to the suicide rate. guest: those returning now know how different the reception is now compared to those from earlier generations, especially vietnam. the veterans to return now are well-received in their communities. the problem is not the civilian community is not supportive of veterans. it is that they do not really understand them. 99% of the population does not understand what those who serve have contributed and sacrificed. host: our next call is from

joyce, a democrat from florida. caller: i am a mental health therapist. i have a master's degree. my son camel from desert storm. he was very depressed. -- my son came home from desert storm. he was very depressed. his friend had been killed by friendly fire. he asked why children were getting killed in war. they changed him to chemical warfare. he got upset because he did not want the chemicals to kill more people. in the interim, he committed suicide. he was a straight a student, a good conduct medal. i worked with him. he was 21 years old. how could i have gotten him as a

mental health therapist to have gotten help? host: let's leave your question there. thank you for sharing the story. that is a very sad personal story. guest: thank you for your call. i am very sorry for the sacrifice that your family has made. each suicide story illustrates what a terrible tragedy this is for our nation in general and for individual families and service members. the health benefits is available for service members or families who believe their service member is challenge. one of the best resources is the national suicide line. it does have a special feature for veterans, current service members, and family members. host: we have two ways to get help. the veteran affairs crisis line and the website.

we will put both of those on the screen for families who might be needing more information about this. there is the number if you need to call. those are the two resources for you. how do suicide rates compared to past wars? the numbers seems so unbelievably high. enough is not being done. guest: we do not know lot about how they compared to past wars. unfortunately, we do not have full data on the veterans we are losing. i would be concerned about say we should slow down the effort -- saying we should slow down the effort. we need to apply full power regardless of how it compares to the past. host: let's put up the suicide number again on the screen for people joining us, to get an idea of the size and scope of

the problem. this is the number of service members who took their lives. tooke their lives at the rate of one every 36 hours. a veteran dies by suicide every 80 minutes. looking at some of the reading about the obstacles to suicide prevention, we have talked about some of them. the mental health screening process needs improvement. insufficient mental health providers within the military and veterans' departments themselves. our last best says they are trying to deploy more mental health personnel. how is that going? guest: it is a trade-off. it is a national problem. given the shortage of providers, every time you make a decision about where to allocate those, there are trade-offs involved. i was on the telephone recently

with a service member in one of our war your transition units. part of the care she is receiving psychiatric care. they had just to play her provider to theater. his being there will help many deployed soldiers and marines, but the trade-off is he leaves behind patients. it is very difficult decision on where to put the care you have. host: this sounds like something that could be fixed. too frequent personnel transfers contributing to a lack of stability when people are trying to adjust. is the military aware of this? are changes coming? guest: we talk about the post- deployment cohesion. the marines have recognized the importance of this.

they recognize when marines come home from deployment, if they're having difficulty adjusting to life at home and need help, those most likely to recognize the warning signs are their buddies and leaders who have known them through deployment. when you come home and immediately disband a unit, these service members are not around the people most likely to recognize the signs. the marine corps has instituted a 90-day stability. . units that deployed together stays together at home. we have recommended that the army institute a similar policy. host: the next call is from asheville, north carolina. robert is a veteran. caller: i am a combat veteran from the vietnam era. i think it would be very helpful if you had another wall for all

of the veterans who have taken their lives, a suicide wall. the previous guest gave lip service to the programs the government offers. sometimes they do not deliver when the veteran comes around on the merry go round, they do not have the ring that they are reaching for. some of these programs are just a facade and do not live up to their advertisement. that is my comment this morning. guest: i agree that all service members that are lost should be honored and commemorated. we need to recognize those that we lose to suicide are often lost to wounds from the war. host: the next call is from a veteran in florida. caller: i am a vietnam veteran

as well. i was in a support unit. when you come out of the service and get into civilian life, the military is structured where you have to qualify yourself to go up in the ranks of authority. in a normal civilian work force, sometimes people are less qualified and they get promoted above you. you may know more than the person being promoted. that can be very stressful. if you have a family, that can be extra stress. i wonder if that could be a contributing factor. guest: if i understand correctly, you are contrasting the military system meritocracy

and promotion with the civilian society. you may be very proficient and capable at what you do but are not recognized for that. i think frustration in your personal and professional life can certainly be contributing factors. each individual case is different. it is difficult to know what pushes an individual to such despair. host: omaha, neb., chad is a democrat. caller: for people who go into combat, in need to watch videos to see how bloody it is before they go do it. that would prepare them for battle. when i was in the military, i noticed the suicide rate in alaska was high.

the reason for that is because there is no unit cohesion. the unit commanders are not forcing the soldiers to participate in sports to build camaraderie. that is all i have to say. host: two topics, let's take them separately. the first is more information at the recruitment stage before people get into this profession. guest: a certainly agree there is a tremendous need for people to be fully prepared for when they go on the planet. that is traing and emotional. this. i think the services have taken on and recognize that. host: there used to be time for picnics, barbecues, things to get people together in a less stressful way.

there is so much for military members to do now and that has declined. guest: i do not know if there's a clear consequence from having fewer picnics to the tragedy of suicide. i would recognize that all our military units are under tremendous stress. host: i have another statistic. in the next segment, we will be graphics.t the democra more than seven soldiers survived compared to each one that dies. look at how that has gone up from other wars. in vietnam, it was almost a two to one ratio of those who died to those survived. what is the effect of that on suicide rates?

guest: i think it does bring many more previously wounded home. it is not clear if carefully counting those with traumatic brain injuries and posttraumatic stress issues. host: becky is a republican from tulsa. caller: my nephew came home from afghanistan. he was diagnosed with ptsd. he was released from the military for that. the only answer from the military doctors was to give him medication. there was nothing done to help him deal with the underlying issues, to give him tools. what can we do as the american public to do something to effect change and say we're not just going to medicate, we're going to do something better than that? guest: thank you for your call. that is an issue i hear

frequently. the concern is that what individuals struggling really need is care in the form of counseling and extended care. medication is a quicker answer. it is not always the right answer. sometimes that is a reflection of the shortage of care providers we have in the effort to treat so many who need care. there are so few opportunities for providers to help them. that will be a continuing issue. i would encourage you and other families to be aware of the struggles better service member may be having. if they are not willing to seek help, seek help for them. host: some centers offer counseling and outreach services, the national center for ptsd has information about trauma. the award-related illness and injury studies center has mental

health available. i would like to put the phone number on the screen again for the veterans affairs crisis line. if you or members of your family would like more information about dealing with mental health issues, you could call. we have a few minutes left. the next telephone call is from michigan, outside detroit. michael is a veteran. caller: i came out of the service in 1976. i went to work. i worked for years. the injuries i sustained in the military, up with me -- caught up with me. my only choice is the va and barbara -- an arbor health care system. you get an appointment three months from now. you get a new doctor every time.

you have to start over again every time. it is a never ending merry-go- round. your issues never get solved. a lot of veterans get discouraged like i am right now. if they cannot do better, we just stop going. it is such a hassle. what is going to be done about it? what are you doing to make it better for us who have to go to the doctor but we cannot get a doctor. it is like shuffling paper work. guest: thank you, michael. you raise the right issues. these are things the va should be addressing. i understand the va is aware of this issue. they are working on this. i think it is well within the rights of every citizen to be questioning and pushing the va for metrics on how well they're

helping veterans. host: we will close with this comment from jim on twitter. on this veterans day, we say thank you to meg harrell to talk about her report on military