presidents request for commercial crew was at 850 million. that was funded in the senate appropriations bill of 500 million. but in the house appropriations bill at 312 million. and so, we were fortunate to get that up to 406 million on commercial crew. and so, that is the area that we are going to have to work on because we all agree that we want to stop pain as quickly as we can to the rations for the seats to get to and from the international space station. ..

they are going to have to adjust those numbers. they want more on the commercial side but not at the expense of the zealous system which should have been overtaken by a the agreements we made in my office two months ago. >> i think the will resolve itself and especially when you consider that the president

proposes and congress disposes and the congress has spoken with regard to the direction and i think as a practical matter next year we all are going to have to realize the fact that if we want to lessen the time we are going to have the commercial crew going to and from the space station that number is going to have to be addressed but where we are now in the senator's opinion we are fortunate what you and senator mikulski did to get the number up to four under 6 million. >> that's right but what i'm trying to do is just suggest to the administrator that we need to have the support from the president in the next submission so we aren't in the appropriations committee having to redirect funds and i would be for increasing the commercial but with the president to suggest where we get it and i want to make sure it's not from

the sls. >> i hope this is getting back to jack at omb. we got a lot of that done in the meeting that you referenced with the head of omb, and hopefully those agreements are going to continue but we are on a good track. senator rubio? >> i wanted to explore the commercial program. for the commercial entities as we know expressed concern about the contract in requirements. i saw the testimony in the house by the folks over at the space exploration talking of the difficulty providing information that's going to have significant cost scheduling pact and those opinion pieces recently run one of the florida papers that used the term as if saddling the commercial program with costly scheduling delays created by complex onerous contract and methods and project oversight

practices so i think we all understand the need for certification efforts to ensure the vehicles are safe and ready to fly particularly people. can you talk about the effort we are making to balance the competing interest between safety and the deliverable versus the input that we are getting from the commercial space providers as far as the contract in? and i think as you get ready for the creative design contract is it going to reflect the comments we are hearing from the industry on these things? just give an insight on that because the complaints are beginning a little bit more prevalent. >> senator, my responsibilities are delivered in my budget and foremost to ensure the safety of my crew whether they are traveling to and from the space station flying on the airplane or traveling to mars and that is what i indicated to do. we understand the input from

some of the commercial perspective partners. as i mentioned we put a draft on the street request for the proposal which actually was probably the third iteration of putting things out that we intended to use as requirements for in the vehicle on which the personnel fly to and from the international space station, so we have had the commercial partners working with us over the last two years on the development of the mutually agreed upon human reading standards. we now have had input from the commercial perspective partners on the request for proposal that came from the draft request proposal. we posted for the public consumption all of the comments that came from the commercial providers and we continue to work with them to understand why they think they cannot work under the guidance of our

regulation. there are certain things we have to do by law and order to purchase goods and services from any vendor, and i have to be able to come to this congress and present members verify how i felt a contractor accountable for the money that i give them. if i let them build with no accountability i don't satisfy my fiduciary responsibility as the administrator and i also don't have a way to hold their feet to the fire and a guarantee that my crews are going to be safe when they go to orbit, so i do appreciate the situation or the position of the commercial entities. that is not the position of all of our perspective fenders. i visited with many of them and most of them will tell you they've done contracts with the government for decades. they know how to read. they are very comfortable with it. their question is we need for you to be very specific in the requirements of front so that we

know what we are building and that's what we are working on right now. i cannot let a contractor go off and change configuration of every month or week or whatever it is without oversight and insight into that and i think that is the debate we are having with the commercial entities. >> my second question is much broader and it's one of the great thrills of my public-service and we dealt with the state programs issues but about the capability and providing infrastructure and helping in that way. really hear the federal level what's exciting is weak to have a voice and kind of a strategic vision of the program i want to explore with you for a moment because i don't know this simple but there is a debate over whether we want to -- with the goals of our space program should be capability driven versus destination driven and that is a valid debate and there is a fairer way and i personally think that you inspire people when you say we are going to do this and be there is a way to marry the two but as i mentioned earlier my daughter asked why we don't fly to the moon more and

it's easy to get kids excited about we are going to certain places president kennedy did versus, you know, fever methodology that may be out there and there's a fairer way to complement both of those. share with me the first time we get to interact in a committee meeting like this kind of your vision of that and maybe there is a way to marry the two into a -- how do we get people excited about space? >> i think people are excited about space and it is generational to be honest with you. what the first of all say destination versus capability is not by mary. it is not either or. if we don't have a destination, we don't know what capabilities we need. we are a capability -- we are putting in place a capability driven program because we have decided the president has told us and congress agrees our destination, our ultimate destination is mars. i can't say that any more clearly. the ultimate destination for humans to travel with nasa is

borers and our time line for that is the 2030. so we have a place to which we are going. we have a time in which we want to get there. if we were to take yourself back in time when president kennedy spoke at rice university he said by the end of the decade i want humans to be safely -- to be taken safely to and returned from the moon. he didn't say july 29th or 19th or coming you know come august or anything. he said before the end of the decade i want them to go to the moon. president obama has said okay in the 2030 is i want you to have humans capable of going to mars with the intention of landing so that is our destination. we don't have the technological capability to get humans there safely right now. at least we don't know that we have that capability. and so that's why we are doing a lot of things right now. we tested the engine for the sl

sls. fold duration tests on the upper stage engine at the base senator. we have the mlp, you have to have a launch pad. it went through and it's out of the complex 39 be going for some tests. that's necessary. we tested the five segment solid rocket motor that has been through a fully successful test, so we are incrementally going along developing the capabilities that we need. that's what makes it capability driven. we're going to give them to you incrementally, and it has to be within the budget. that is the hard part for all of us to live within the constraints. >> i will not up because i'm almost out of time, too. one of the competing interests we have is people argue are we spending money on this or the other means we have to think one of the ways you justify that is and i think we need to do a better job here in the senate and in the congress of getting

people excited about that destination, creating a national goal we talk about with our kids and i would like to see it being discussed by the time that you were my age america is going to land on the surface of mars and return and this is why it is in our interest to do it and i think that -- i think it is incumbent upon us to create a level of excitement and broader public awareness of the united states is working on big and exciting things like landing on the surface of mars and so we should talk in the future about how we explore it because i think that can be for the space program and a catalyst for getting kids excited about science and math and being a part of that endeavor itself. estimate we made an effort theater date to help keep people excited when we announced the start of the recruitment process for the class of 2013 of astronauts. that is a big deal. you know, there are kids who have been told if they will get the media that nasa's human spaceflight program is over

recruit if i'm not intending to fly them. >> they're probably all high school right now. >> i hope they want to aspire like a 4-year-old son of the president of el salvador. that is where we are going. and kids are excited about that. and we intend to keep that excitement. >> thank you. >> senator rubio, as part of your question i think it is worth noting that senators hutchinson and mikulski enabled an increase on the exploration research and development from the president's request of 288 million up to 304 million, and this is exactly what you were hitting at developing the new technologies we have to develop if we are going to mars

and so my compliments again to the senators, and i might point out this is a discussion about the demand space program but i hasten to add that of the first day is aeronautics and the aeronautics the president's request there's 569 million the appropriations level is 569 million. so, we have that going and of course that is an extremely important program because that involves all of us right here day today in our aviation activities. general, i will wrap up here just asking you to comment for the record on a lot of these

near-term missions and in a colloquy with senator hutchinson and senator rubio you started talking about the question of did we go to the asteroid, did we go back to the moon first, and in your answer this is going to involve international partners of because we are not way to do this alone and how was the international collaboration with partners likely to influence the determination on our way to mars that we should do this or that mission? >> we cannot do it alone as use it and the international collaboration and everything we do is critical. i will talk to long but the senator got my attention the other night when we had the apollo 11 crew and the senator at headquarters briefing them on where we are today just to bring

them up to speed and he made a very insightful comment to me. he said i like everything you're talking about what you're talking to much about exploration, and you're not talking about the international space station, and you need to make sure everybody understands you can't explore if we don't utilize effectively the international space station. i come around to that because we don't have a binary system. we have to have aeronautics or we can't land on mars because it is hypersonic flight. we have to have a way to get to the international space station or we can't do the capability and the development that is going to go into the ultimate heavy lift vehicle in the heavy cruiser vehicle. the way we are going to get the runnels it to the russians to hundred $60 million a year is through american entities and so they are all tied together inextricably, and i have to do better job of explaining that. this is not a competition

between commercial space and exploration. it's a collaboration. our international partners will leave us if we don't get our act together and demonstrate to them that we can be disciplined and develop collaborative programs will help humans reach to these destinations everybody wants to go. we are doing well. we're still be acknowledged leader of exploration in the world. i watched the president from argentina when we showed the results from the mission. it is an argentine mission that we build satellites and launched out of ann berg about a month ago. it's already bringing data in the oceans of the world. i mean she is like a kid and a candy store she almost climbed up on the table looking at the

charts about oceans saying what does this mean for my nation? what does this mean for me as a leader? what do i want to do? the president asked the same things when we bring him you all ask those questions frequently. we've got -- we have to have international cooperation and collaboration or else we can't get there. estimate is there a preference in the community that they are expressing to go back to the moon as opposed first going to the astor and? >> the international community mirrors the united states. >> you heard this term flexible pass. i don't know whether it is 50% and that of the expertise to get there and they don't have any interest in the gastright many

want to go to ns to read into it right now because that is where the expertise lies. if there is resource development a lot to go to the moon so it depends on what is this in their best interest. everybody wants to go to mars and everybody is coming together to go to mars and we need to make sure that we pay attention to what's going on offshore, because everybody else is moving steadily together and we don't want to be left behind. senator hutchison, you are absolutely right. it is essential that we keep the pace of the heavy lift launch vehicle but to work with the contras and the administration to make sure we don't fall behind because we can't effectively utilize the international space station and maintain our leadership there.

it's a challenge but we can do it. >> since everybody has the stock of going to mars, one of the things you are going to have to do is develop a whole bunch of deutsch technologies, and of course i think if we can spread to mars in 39 days with dr. franklin plasma rocket and save instead of taking nine to ten months that's a game changer right there and that is a technology that is being developed so who knows by the time we are ready to go to mars with the new technologies are going to be. >> okay. >> can i add one thing and that is one of us have talked with the president may be setting a pretty that what rearrange some of the other scientific technology budgets to ensure

that we can do all of the three priorities we have agreed are on the agreed list. >> that is exactly what we are doing. the delicate balance that we played is that we have constituents who all have very important things. it's not either or. there are science imperatives we have to be able to satisfy if we are to go to mars and you may think they are not significant. we launched a developmental satellite for us that is now and operational weather satellite. i've got to have that. if i don't have the effect of weather satellites i can't launch. there's no keep up with a weekend of the table. we control of individual programs and projects that's

what we're looking at right now. the goals and objectives for less and how do we sinner joyce yemen-based flight with robotic space flight and is energize a scientific mission with the human space flight need and those are what we call precursors. every time we launch we are trying to make life better here are not to and it doesn't make a difference with the satellite is going to do. with its stated purpose is almost every satellite that we launch in one way or another makes life better honor and that is what we, that's the imperative that i asked our folk to always keep in mind. what benefit is this going to bring tourists no matter what it is doing. >> i'm suggesting the president also has options not just within the nasa budget but in arranging the priorities between nasa and

other rarities determining which are the most important. that is an option that hasn't been talked about today that i want to also have on the table. thank you. >> senator warner? >> i know my time is short on the first panel and i appreciate the courtesy of getting the chance to -- >> i want to thank the administrator for coming to virginia the other night speaking so well at the technology council. i want to talk a little about some of the opportunities and plans you might have for the continued development that we share with maryland facility

that was wonderful potential and i would like your comments on the future and where you think it might be headed. i also want to note that i know this area has already been covered but i will have a number of questions in terms of my continued support for commercial space activities and the private sector side and the growth of that opportunity and the partnership and i know the subjects have been covered somewhat but i want to get my 2 cents in on those as well but if you could speak to the development. >> with relationship to wallops the senate office of the director not there is working with oral science and mars and our challenges completing the launch pad for the orbital

sciences company so then they can get off the demonstration flights as early as possible in the demonstration of their ability to get things. that is a very high priority for us, so we continue to do that. wallops is a -- i always tell people it is like a federal city. wallops agencies that are there. it is our primary domestic bone launch facility, and i'm not talking about a party balloon. we are talking about balloons that were blocks long the we take down and launch and they stay over the south pole or go to the north pole and stay for months at a time. wallops plays a vital role in everything we do in science as well as in our exploration and servicing of the international

space station. >> thank you. mr. chairman, since i was lead i will defer my other questions for the record with respect to you and the other colleagues on the panel. >> thank you, senator warner. general bolten? may i invite the second panel. >> [inaudible conversations] >> i introduced this panel previously. we will start in the order of alphabetically and thank all three of you.

bob, mike coats and robert. director cabana. >> members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to be here today. i am pleased to provide ongoing work at the kennedy space center but first i would like to thank all of you for your hard work towards providing a budget and a half 2012 they made it through a challenge this last year as we say to complete the last mission and continued our preparation to support both the exploration program as well as commercial operations. this would not have been possible without the extremely talented in the dedicated work force at ksc to read as we transition in the future will look to provide a strong institutional core that is more efficient, cost-effective and capable of supporting multiple programs. key steps making this happen in

would reducing our footprint and replacing the aging infrastructure with a green technologies. partnering with federal state and commercial entities and reorganizing the work force to better support future operations to facilitate collaboration and partnerships we establish the planning and develop office to focus on commercial agreements. these agreements to get vantage of the ksc facilities that are in excess following the shuttle and are not required for the future space launch system. today this office has approximately 80 agreements in various stages of discussion and signature. the most notable agreement between florida and ksc allows the use of the processing facility and the engine shop for commercial operations. we've also made significant progress in preparing for the space launch system and a multipurpose crew vehicle.

it has been cleared and is undergoing a modernization including the lightning system, digital control systems, refurbished propellant distribution system and fiber-optic data transmission capability. in the operations and checked hardware is already a writing to support the assembly of the test vehicle currently scheduled for launch in 2014. the commercial crew program was established at ksc this year in partnership with other centers is moving forward to contract for commercial capability to provide our troops with transportation to the international space station. this will relieve us of our dependence on our russian partners and allow us to focus our energy on exploration beyond our own planet. our 21st century ground system program is working to build a true multi user complex and investments and 21st century focus on the development of the ground systems that not only support the space launch system and multi-purpose krin vehicle

but provide a common infrastructure for other government and commercial users. finally, the services program at ksc provides the purchase base for the science missions by procuring and managing commercial launch services and providing the payload processing for the final preparations. next week we will be launching of the web on november 25th. the kennedy space center is moving forward. the potential exists for the revitalization of the florida space coast through for the development of the 21st century ground systems program, the growth of commercial truth services and continued accomplishments of the services program. we are committed to the success of these programs and the success of the future exploration and space. i'd like to think the committee for this opportunity to share the future with the kennedy space center and the space coast. we value your continued support and confidence in our ability to

serve as the complex premier ambitions in space. thank you. >> thank you. to dr. coates. >> good morning, chairman nelson, ranking member bozeman and members of the committee. i am privileged today to be here representing the johnson space center. jsc continues to play a leadership role in human space flight design, development, operations and training as allows health performance, orbital debris analysis and correction of the materials. jsc continues to focus on safely operating maintaining the international space station as a national laboratory asset. after the successful launch and docking of the vehicle we welcome the three new members on board of the iss on tuesday. they will maintain a continuous 11 years of uninterrupted human presence on board. we are enhancing the

capabilities for both research and technology and beginning the use of the space station as a test bed for deep space engineering demonstrations further building upon our partnership of five space agencies and 15 countries. we are very proud of our leadership role in the development of the zero ryan multipurpose crew vehicle. a spacecraft that will carry astronauts to new destinations beyond lower orbit and will continue to build upon the research and expertise of the human research program to create next generation systems to sustain humans in space. the program is working to make this vehicle affordable and able to meet the budget and schedule requirements. as a part of that effort, nasa is finalizing the flight test strategy so that flight tests can focus on high-risk items earlier in the development cycle when it costs less to change them. speed 12 his been working with

other centers on prodir integration to ensure safe and successful flight. jsc has taken an active role in the advanced exploration systems program. the portfolio project that target near-term demonstration of the most critical technological challenges for human exploration be on the low worth orbit. these projects are aligned with overall agency exploration policies as defined by the nasa road maps and existing program needs. finally, jsc is pursuing any collaborative efforts with parkhurst to further innovative strategies for problem solving to accelerate research development and deliver products effectively and efficiently to ensure leadership in the human space flight into the future. thank you again to the committee for the opportunity to speak with you today, and i welcome any questions you might have to read >> thank you. the director? >> thank you mr. chairman and members of the committee i appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today and talk

about the marshall space flight center and what we do for nasa and the nation. the space exploration science and technology development more than 50 years we support nasa in the areas of proportion of space, to systems for living and working in space and in the science and technology for helping us understand the root and the universe today responding to the funding and programmatic environment by reorganizing and downsizing to become more affordable, an affable and relevant while the capability we think we bring to the nation as the center to lead nowhere and marshall are the historic strengths and response to the realities more evident than the space launch system. nasa has selected an architect the develops more performance at less cost than the annual budget of the struggle. had the evil from them metric

ton we inserted competitive opportunities for different technology the will deliver affordable performance. the plan meets the agency affordability goals and several key ways. we streamlined the sls programs and processes and are using proven hardware left by the shuttle program and constellation program that are already in place and on their way to the development process. through these and other residents we. while they are in the corner part of martial it's only one part of our diverse portfolio. engineers and scientists continue to support the international space station by running the operation center for all run through our senator at marshall. we also support the anbar rental control systems on the space station and will be used in the future. we also exceed the above efforts in supporting chief technologist where we do the technology

initiatives they've planned and we are working to a commercial providers as well as the of move forward and we have key. we are excited about the path forward for the agency and we look for to the opportunities and challenges that will bring. we understand the challenges you face and if taken cents to adapt thank you for all you've done to support sls and i support your questions. >> senator boozman. if you need to leave, senator hutchins. >> what believe my time now -- i want to ask generally each of you how you have restructured

your work force organization to support the exploration effort, the international space station efforts and the commercial. obviously we've talked a lot already about going forward with both the commercial trajectory as well as zero mollyann and sls. hauer you accommodating your work force and the downsizing that all of you have had to do and to assure that you are supporting the the joint goals that we've talked about that we've all had with those priorities? >> welcome senator, i will be frank. it's been a difficult couple years for the amazing work force at the johnson space center. we have had two major programs

come to an end, the shovel and the constellation program and we've laid off about 3500 people about 20% of the work force in the center. but i have got a team down there and i know bob and robert do, too really talented and dedicated people. they are awfully proud of their history and can't be more proud of how they handled the last few missions knowing a lot of them are going to be lead off the finished final assembly at this space station and was as smooth and seamless as you could have asked for but the team wants to move forward as one lady told me we are part of your history but we want to make some of our own not there. the team once direction and support from a country. they are anxious to get started so we have tried very hard to transition the team off of the program off of the constellation

program onto the new things we are working on including the space station of course, and i think that is going reasonably well. they are excited, frankly excited about the authorization act we had last year, the seemingly endless series of the continued resolutions, hopefully the bill will bring that to an end. we are excited about that. having direction, having support from congress and the administration means an awful lot to the team. they are excited about working. when charlie announced they were going to continue, there was a huge deal at the johnson space center. extending the international space station in 2020 and beyond was a big deal. they are excited about that and the things we doing on the international space station only the experiments, the 150 or so running at any one time that the test bed aspect of the station how important it is for the

exploration that is very important. we are working on the new technologies senator nelson talked about how important it is for the exploration so the team is looking ahead. they are excited and proud but anxious to make the next 50 years as successful was the last 50. >> thank you. >> the government in the past we are for the space port of the future making it up and when the shuttle in the the team performed flawlessly at the last mission and was hard in july people walked out the door when the program was cancelled there was a huge disappointment, but that team now is transitioned into the 21st century program

and they are excited about making them a true spaceport not only for the space launch system but also commercial operations from how they can happen to try to make a team in the program notes can't be an engineering team that can support multiple programs. the funding to execute that plan has been a huge boost to the team. the tools and resources done they will make it happen so we are turning the corner. the building toward the future and folks are excited about making it happen. >> having just the direction and the plan to go forward has been a key for us.

getting past that uncertainty that one of the things and i agree with everything that might and bond have said what we are trying to do from the agency standpoint but one of the things is we needed to stay in contact. it's easy in a time of uncertainty to circle the wagons and become johnson and kennedy, but we decided early on that we were going to stick together and make sure we were talking on a pretty routine basis. we try to transfer that to the team as well. i of two colleagues here. ten great colleagues over all but they stuck by me and we've stuck with each other for the process to make sure we are talking and communicating as much as we can and that has been critical for the work force to see that and it's one of the biggest things that has gotten to the transition and has been the impetus that allows us to be ready to move forward. >> that's very positive, and ironclad to hear you say that because the sharing obviously is going to create efficiencies.

that is a good news and i hope we will be able to continue to utilize the great resources you have. regarding that challenges we are facing to achieve these goals that we've suggested. thank you very much. specs before mr. chairman. >> that is good news, good positive for direction, and senator, in response to your question to director cabana, will you for their flesh out the fact that in this budget that senator hutchison and the senator mikulski past that for the modernization for you to redo the run facility to accommodate these new rockets plus the 21st century you are looking at funds available to 484 million in this appropriations budget.

estimate yesterday and that's important. the 316 that comes from sls towards the 21st century is the money that is going to go to the complex 39 that directly supports preparing the complex to the support of the heavy lift rocket. the additional 168 that has come to the 21st century and we are using that in conjunction with the other money the modifications we are making we have to make them to support sls and i would like to bring up if we look at the constellation money we were under the continuing resolution that money was not wasted. all of the money that came we said what can we do that is generic to prepare the complex 39 for the future for the commercial and heavy lift rocket coming so that it wasn't specific but it still made great progress toward preparing for the heavy lift rocket so it's critical those funds aren't used properly and we are making sure we support sls. to go back to the senator's

question and comment about us working together. one of the largest problems in the program like this is the integration of it and we've downsized or programs so they are less intensive as far as the personnel are concerned so they are less costly, but having the vehicle at johnson and the rockets and the complex set ksc we are working together. each project program manager at the center's work very closely with each other and with us as we prepare the coming together. it's important and critical we do work together and we are utilizing those funds for the most efficient manner we can. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman. with your permission, i think

senator rubio -- >> 11:45 engagement. thank you for being a part of this. i think you touched upon this in your opening statement and answer to some of the other questions. the elaborate for what we are giving it the kennedy space center to help the transition from the shuttle program particularly how we are identifying the use for the facilities no longer needed to support the operation how we are helping transition people from the good news recently about people coming in, that sort of thing. >> a year ago we went out with a notice of availability of the facilities of the kennedy space center. as a result of that we had a lot of interest from the commercial for companies coming to work. as we transition from the shuttle this excess capacity that we have not only in the personnel which is the key but in the facilities i can't meeting with of the reduced budgets we have i do not have the money for the maintenance and operations facilities we don't have the money to tear

them out even though they would be just sitting idle and falling apart, but we do have commercial companies that are in utilizing them and i think that the partnerships are going to be the key to the future to make sure that we capitalize on these assets and they don't go to waste. so if we have no definitive use for them to support the space launch system we are looking for commercial companies to come and the best partnership we have has been through the state of florida and space florida. it's worked extremely well to allow them to take over 0pf3 and make it available for the commercial operations and the in turn are leasing it the first model for the assembly and processing of the capsule. as they become available we have other folks that interested in bringing work to those facilities also. we are making sure the work we bring supports the mission and

commercial operations in the nation's. it's much more difficult than i thought to get all the agreements in place to make it happen without having the first model now what will be easier as we move forward in the future. >> senator boozman. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank all of you for being here and all of you for your hard work. you've had a very difficult time the last few years. i've had the opportunity to be down to try to watch one of the launches but it was good to begin the visit. i know the most difficult times in my life have been where you don't know where you're at and this has been terrie difficult for yourselves, your employees that work so hard and really

made it program that has identified the united states throughout the whole world, so we can be dirty proud of that. hopefully we are starting to have some reassurance and continuity in the program so that that will sold on that. we appreciate all that you were doing and have done through a very difficult time. i just have a couple things and then a couple things we will submit for the record we can get answered. it mr. .. thank you testimony he discusses a flight test that i asked about. can you describe in a little bit more detail about the test primary goals and benefits we will get from that and how we will beneficial? >> one of the things we've learned in the 33 years in this

space business in one role or another and we certainly learned it as test pilots the earlier you can test things and discover problems the more money you are going to save it on the line. having an early flight test has always been one of the options, the important priorities for us. several things can together for what we are calling the exploration flight test one much more feasible. getting some agreement between congress and the president and the administration on the direction of the state's program having some certainty in the budget and so forth has made efp one much more valuable. we've defined about $163 million in the budget to pay for that and we will litigate the risk on the line in the cost of the program tremendously. of course the difference we need

to understand the trend of low earth orbiting for the higher speed gentry so it's not quite the same as cutting back so if we can do the efp one and we are not going to go into deep space that we are going to go way out and come back in the high-speed gentry which will come to test with the reentry out there. we need a heavy lift rocket and we've got a pretty reasonable deal life and from a contractor on the rocket. so if we use that to lift the vehicle out into space we can catch the reentry capabilities and there are 16 items we have on our high-risk list if you will. we will test ten of those and i think that's important if we can pull it off in 2014 and find the

money to do that we are going to save a lot of money down the road. we are hoping down the road to have an important test as well and that is i think a pretty reasonable program. it's obviously going to depend on the budget is in the out years and so forth but we your pretty excited. chiarelli approves that and it has got us pretty pumped up. >> senator if i could add to his comments. folks down there will be retrieving this vehicle to develop the procedures to recover it and prepare them better for the future also produce some very good. that's very helpful. >> ceramica i just want to underscore what you said because a lot of people mess the significance of the civil the

detail. we are talking about a test flight of the big zero ryan capsule that is for the rockets and this will go in to fiscal years. we are in 2012 right now talking about fiscal year 2014 for this test and for those who are concerned about launching rockets down at the space center in addition to what's going on we're talking abut the big rockets the development program test program starting two years from now so thank you for bringing that clarity to the issue. what obstacles do you think there are on future partnership that you will have talked about,

for example mr. cabana to talk about space for the, the company utilizing the processing facility. do you see any legal obstacles or other obstacles in the future partnerships as you were saying you got two more you reflect to utilize instead of them just sitting there. >> it's going to be a challenge, senator. when we have a facility we can turn over to someone to use it is much easier than if we have a joint use a facility and make the kennedy space center launch 39 the multi user report where we've run into issues is when we have a government program and a commercial program, flexible, both operating all of the vehicle assembly rolling out to the pad we get into the cross rivers of the liability and the who is responsible and how much do you pay when you turn the facility over it is clear with the costs on the facility are

when you have a joint use of a facility and somebody is only in a small portion of the time for example how do you charge of their fair share but i don't see any obstacle we can't work through. we are making progress. nothing is ever easy, but we are going to make it work so we will figure it out as we go. if issues come up we need help on we will make sure we go to the right folks to get that help. >> senator, i would add that the assembly on the new orleans as part of the marshall space flight center and we've been doing for the similar efforts bringing folks in to help the agency and it is sometimes difficult to make sure we your doing the right thing to maintain that capability, but we are also learning from each other as we go through these prophecies to make sure we get the right tenants to use those and share those costs.

>> as we develop this big rocket we are referring to, the sls come can you elaborate on there might be other uses for the sls vehicle beyond nasa's exploration program. how much of it is a pretty for you to find other inflammations of the sls? >> we as an agency are talking about that now. we have a couple teams in place looking at missions the rocket could deutsch and it's more than the list capability more to do with the volume. a large volume in the payload bay area. >> describe that for the people that are listening in the audience on television right now. how big. take for example what the diameter of the current let's say commercial rockets and then

describe the dalia matter. >> the bigger rocket i believe most of them are 5.5 meters, 18 feet is the largest. we are talking 27.5 in the first version and potentially 33 feet in the upscale version of the 140 metric tons so a lot more volume, and again, it's more than just the messes of the volume so we are talking to the community how we can use the rocket for that potential mis they have down the road as well and have the government agency and even commercial folks letting them know with the capability is. >> have you had any discussions with potential users of that much larger volume? >> we have talked to them but it's been speculative at this point. you have to get it built and to get a vantage of it when it gets there. >> from your perspective, the

commercial approached such as by the companies in space and orbital and now boeing is in that competition as well to the first is the government approach to launch of the development. describe for us the difference is in your mind, particularly as it pertains to cost and how do these approaches differ? >> i think for us on the government side we have a set of standards we follow, and we do has a part of the u.s. command especially in relation to how we buy those capabilities they were actually learning things in terms of what they've been doing and spending time with them i think everyone of us have been to the commercial guys to see how they are doing it and they have things they can do that we can't do in the government in terms of how to purchase things. but for the most part i think what we bring to the people is

we have a legacy in history, not that they don't, they are capable to have some great folks as well but we are pulling on the legacy of history but on our history to make sure we are not overdoing things. so that we can get back into the affordability arena in a better way. we've taken i know on the sls we have in the documents and knock them down to 25 and making things fight their way back in. trying very hard not to compromise any safety because that is critical but may be where we get the requirement out there that we can deal will put more relaxed. that is how we are looking at it as it relates to us version is the commercial. specks of both approaches trying to learn from each other. spec a lot of our workforce kamal the agency's work force --

we have 80 something agreements, baum said he had over 80 where we are helping other entities with capabilities we have in our shop to help them work some of the issues they are dealing with as they go through the development process as well. estimate the administrator mentioned in his testimony that zero ryan streamlining saved nasa on the development cost and what about the lessons learned to be applied. we were not quite sure if we were going to have the zero ryan program of any kind the administrator had told our team to continue marching on until we got that resolved but because

the continued resolutions the budget was very constrained the last 20 months. so, we have had to look for ways to achieve efficiencies if you will, and we have had excellent results. we've learned a lot by working together and looking for ways to eliminate redundancies and efficiencies look for the cheapest way to get the testing on whether it is a coasting come of vibration testing, what ever. what's the best way to give that done. we had no choice. we had to revisit all of the requirements we laid out. the statements we have in the document, where the adds money to the program. we talked about inside and

oversight and ways to streamline that. we have an excellent working relationship now with the contractor. i think we have a good test program laid out which will mitigate. ..

and i have to give a lot of credit to the team, to the contractor team and frankly to senior nasa management for pressing on while this was clarified by congress and the administration. >> and on lessons learned, director cabana, what adjustments have you made to the management of the commercial group program as a result of input from the industry and lessons learned from the commercial cargo resupply program? >> i think one of the biggest changes as we looked at previous nasa programs, they are very civil service intensive. a large number of fte. the commercial crew program that we share jointly with the johnson space center has under 200 civil servants working on

it. i think we look to the launch services program which has done very well with vehicles for science missions and how they do their work. i'm not saying we can go this far in that direction as they have. we are trying to find that middle ground that is less restrictive or intensive as procurements to an easier way of doing it that allows this give-and-take between the government and the contractor to come to the right answer. requirements are a big deal. when we talk commercial space first off though everybody talks commercial space at how different is. is the government procurement by a different name and all our vehicles have been built by commercial companies so it's a little bit different way of doing things and hopefully it will be a less expensive way of doing things and it will get what we want out of it when we define our requirements and that is the key.

if we go to fixed-price contract with differently defined what our requirements are and that changes because every change brings huge costs so i think if we put the work into it on the front and firmly define our requirements, we will be able to get to an answer that provides the vehicle that we need with the proper insight that is safe and allows her cruised to a file to the international space station and station and a less costly manner. >> thank you mr. chairman. again this has been a very helpful hearing i think for all of us. >> indeed it has. thank you gentlemen. the meeting is adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] president obama is finishing up his eight day asia-pacific trip and addressed australians parliament earlier. that's next on c-span2.

>> there is a story that i was told that when obama was given the first budget there were six or 7000 earmarks and his first instinct was to veto that budget. he was told by his lobbyist for capitol hill that there is no way we can do that. i just think that had he vetoed that, he would have been the tea party. had he signaled his fundamental desire to change the system into change the way the washington works he could have continued to rally be a four movement that breaks out literally the world. because of the frustration they -- does not function. >> next, president obama addresses australia's parliament as part of its asia-pacific

trip. his remarks come after he and australian prime minister julia gillard announced a new military partnership between the two countries. rum canberra australia, this is 30 minutes and comes courtesy of aipac, australia's public affairs channel. >> mr. president gives me great pleasure to invite you to address the house. >> prime minister gillard, leader app it, thank you your very warm welcome. mr. mr. speaker, mr. president, members of the house and senate, ladies and gentlemen i thank you for the honor of standing in this great chamber to reaffirm the bonds between the united states and the commonwealth of australia.

two of the world's oldest democracies and two of the world's oldest friends. to you and the people of australia, thank you for your extraordinary hospitality and here, in this ancient meeting place, i want to acknowledge the original inhabitants of this land and one of the world's oldest continuous cultures, the first australians. i first came to australia as a child traveling between my birth place birthplace of birth place of a white and indonesia where i would live for four years. as an 8-year-old i couldn't always understand your foreign language. [laughter] last night i did try to talk some string. today i don't want to subject you to any ear bashing. i really do love that and i will be introducing that into the vernacular in washington. [laughter]

but to a young american boy, australia and his people, your optimism, your easy-going ways, your irreverent sense of humor all felt like home. i have always wanted to return. i tried last year twice, but this is a lucky country and today i feel lucky to be here as we mark the 60th anniversary of our unbreakable alliance. the bonds between us run deep. in each other story we see most -- so much of ourselves. ancestors across vast oceans, some by choice, some in chains, settlers who pushed west across sweeping plains and dreamers who toiled with hearts and hands to lay railroads and to build cities, generations of immigrants who would with each

new arrival added new threat to the brilliant tapestry of our nations. and we are citizens who led by common creed. no matter who you are, no matter what you look like, everyone deserves a fair chance. everyone deserves a fair goal. of course progress in our society does not always come without tensions or struggles to overcome a painful past. but we are countries with a willingness to face our imperfections and to keep reaching for our ideals. that is the spirit was on this chamber three years ago is this nation inspired the world with an historic gesture of reconciliation with indigenous australians. it's the spirit of progress in america which allows me to stand before you today as president of the united states and it's the spirit i will see later today when i become the first u.s. president to visit the northern territory where we'll meet the

traditional owners of the land. nor has our progress, without great sacrifice. this morning i was humbled and deeply moved by a visit to your war memorial to pay my respects to australia's fallen sons and daughters are go later today and in darwin i will join the prime minister in saluting our brave men and women in uniform and it will be a reminder that from the trenches of the first world war to the mountains of afghanistan, aussies and americans have stood together. we have fought together. we have given lives together in every single nature complex of the past 100 years. every single one. the solidarity has sustained us through difficult decade. we will never forget the attacks of 9/11 that took the lives not only of americans with people from many nations including australia.

in the united states we will never forget how australians invoke this treaty for the first time ever showing that our two nations stood as one. and none of us will ever forget those we lost to the archivist terror in the years since including innocent australians. that is why as both the prime minister and the opposition leader indicated that we are determined to succeed in afghanistan. it is why i salute australia outside of nato the largest contributor of troops to this vital mission. that is why we honor all those who have served there for our security including 32 australian patriot who gave their lives, among them captain bryce duffy, corporal ashley burke and lance corporal luke gavin. we will honor their sacrifice than making sure that

afghanistan is never again used as a source for attack against our people. never again. as to global partners we stand up for the security of the people around the world. we see b.c. it when our rescue workers rushed to help others in times of fire, droughts and flooding rains. we see it when we partnered to keep the peace from east timor to the balkans and when we pursue our shared vision, a world without nuclear weapons. we see it in the development that lifts up a child in africa and the system that saves the family from famine and when we extend our support to the people in the middle east and worth africa who deserve the same liberty that allows us to gather in this great hall of democracy. this is the alliance we reaffirm today. rooted in our values, renewed by every generation. this is the partnership we work

to deepen over the past three years. today i can stand before you and say with confidence that the alliance between the united states and australia has never been stronger. it has been to our past, our alliance continues to be indispensable to our future. so here among close friends i would like to address the larger purpose of my visit to this region. our efforts to advance the security, prosperity and human dignity across the agents. for the united states this reflects a broader shift. after a decade in which we fought two wars that cost us dearly in blood and treasure, the united states is turning our attention to the vast potential of the asia-pacific region. in just a few weeks, after nearly nine years, the last american troops will leave iraq

and our war there will be over. in afghanistan we have begun the transition of responsible transition so afghans can take responsibility for their future and so coalition forces can begin to draw down. with partners like australia we have struck major blows against al qaeda and put that terrorist organization on the path to defeat including delivering justice to osama bin laden. so make no mistake, the time of war is receding and america is looking ahead to the future that we must build. from europe to the americas we have strengthened alliances and partnerships. at home we are investing in the sources of our long-term economic strength and the education of our children, the training of our workers, the infrastructure that fuels commerce and the science and research that leads to new breakthroughs. we have made hard decisions to cut our deficit and put our fiscal house in order and we'll

continue to do more. because our economic strength at home is the foundation of our leadership in the world. including here in the asia-pacific. our new focus on this region reflects a fundamental truth. the united states has been and always will be a pacific nation. asian immigrants helped build america and millions of american families including my own cherished our ties to this region. from the bombing of darwin to the liberation of the pacific islands, from the rice paddies of southeast asia to a cold korean peninsula, generations of americans have served here and died here. so democracies could take root, so economic miracles could lift hundreds of millions to prosperity. americans have bled with you for this progress and we will not allow it -- we will never allow

it to be reversed. here we see the future as the world's fastest-growing region and home to more than half of the global economy. the asia-pacific is critical to achieving my highest priority and that's creating jobs and opportunity for the american people. with most of the world's nuclear power and some half of humanity, asia will well largely defined whether the century ahead will be marked by conflict or cooperation. needless suffering or human progress. as president, i have therefore made a deliberate and strategic decision. as a pacific nation, the united states will play a larger and long-term role in shaping this region and its future. by upholding core principles and in close partnership with our allies and friends.

let me tell you what this means. first, we seek security which is the foundation of peace and prosperity. we stand for an international order in which the rights and responsibilities of all nations and all people are upheld. where international law and norms are enforced, where commerce and freedom of navigation are not impeded. where emerging powers contribute to regional security and where disagreements are resolved peacefully. that is the future that we seek. i know some in this region have wondered about america's commitment to upholding these principles so let me address this directly. as the united states puts our fiscal house in order we are reducing our spending and yes after decade of extraordinary growth in our military budget and as we definitively end the war in iraq and begin to wind down the war in afghanistan, we

will make some reductions in defense spending. as we consider the future of our armed forces, we have begun a review that will identify our most important strategic interests and guide our defense priorities in spending over the coming decade. so here is what this region must know. as we and today's wars, i have directed my national security team to make our presence and mission in the asia-pacific a top priority. as a result, reductions in u.s. defense spending will not, i repeat will not, at come at the expense of the asia-pacific. my guidance is clear. as a plan and budget for the future we will allocate the resources necessary to maintain our strong military presence in this region. we will preserve our unique ability to project power and deter threats to peace. we will keep our commitments

including our treaty obligations to allies like australia. and we will constantly strengthen our capabilities to meet the needs of the 21st century. our enduring interests in the region demand our enduring presence in the region. the united states is a pacific power and we are here to stay. indeed we are already modernizing america's defense posture across the asia-pacific. it will be more broadly distributed. maintaining our strong presence in japan and the korean peninsula while enhancing our presence in southeast asia. are posture will be more flexible with new capabilities to ensure our forces can operate freely and our posture will be more sustainable by helping allies and partners build their capacity with more training and exercises. we see our new posture here in australia, the initiatives the

prime minister and i announced yesterday will bring our two militaries even closer together. will have new opportunities to train with other allies and partners from the pacific to the indian ocean and it will allow us to respond faster to the full range of challenges including humanitarian crises in disaster relief. since world war ii australians have warmly welcomed american servicemembers. on behalf of the american people i thank you for welcoming those who will come next because they ensure our line stand strong and ready for the test of our times. we see america's enhance presence in the alliance that we strengthened. in japan are alliance remains a cornerstone of regional security and in thailand where we are partnering for disaster relief, in the philippines where we are increasing ship visits and training and south korea where our commitment to the security

of the republic of korea will never waiver. indeed we also reiterate our resolve to act firmly against any proliferation activities by north korea. the transfer of nuclear materials or material by north korea to states or nonstate entities would be considered a grave threat to the united states and our allies. we would hold north korea fully accountable for the consequences of such action. you see americans enhance presence across southeast asia and our partnership with indignation against piracy and violent extremism and in our work with malaysia super -- prevent proliferation. the ships will deploy to singapore and in our closer cooperation with vietnam and cambodia and in india as it looks easton plays a larger role as an asian power. at the same time we are reengaged with their regional organizations.

our work in bali this week will mark her third week with asean leaders and i will be proud to be the first merten president to attend the east asia summit. together i believe we can address shared challenges such as proliferation in maritime security including cooperation in the south china sea. meanwhile the united states will continue our effort to build a corporate relationship with china. all of our nations, australia, the united states, all of our nations have a profound interest in their rise of a peaceful and prosperous china. that's why the united states welcomes it. we have seen that china can be a partner from reducing tensions on the korean peninsula to preventing or liberation and we will seek more opportunities for cooperation with asia including greater communication between our militaries to promote understanding and avoid miscalculation.

we will do this even as we continue to speak candidly to beijing about the importance of upholding international norms and respecting the innermost universal rights of the chinese people. a secure and peaceful asia is a foundation for the second area in which america is leading and that is advancing our shared disparity. history teaches us the greatest force the world has ever known for creating wealth and opportunity is free markets so we seek economies that are open and transparent. we seek trade that is free and fair and we seek an open international economic system where rules are clear and every nation plays by them. in australia and america, we understand these principles. we are among the most open economies on kurth. six years into our landmark trade agreement commerce between us has soared.

our workers are creating new partnerships and new products like the advanced aircraft technologies we build together in my toy. we are the leading investors in australia and you invest more in america than you do in any other nation creating good jobs in both countries. we recognize an economic partnership can't just be about one nation extracting another's resources. we understand that the long-term strategy for growth can be imposed from above. real prosperity, prosperity that fosters innovation and prosperity that endures comes from unleashing our greatest economic resource and that's the entrepreneurial spirit, the talents of our people. so even as america competes aggressively in the asian markets, we are forging economic partnerships that create opportunity for all, building on our historic trade agreement

with south korea we are working with australian or other apec partners to create a seamless regional economy and with australia and other partners we are on track to achieve our most ambitious trade agreement yet. a potential model for the entire region, the transpacific partnership. the united states remains the world's largest and most dynamic economy but in the interconnected world we all rise and fall together. that's why a push so hard to put the g20 at the front and center of global economic decision-making, to give more nations a leadership role in managing the international economy including australia. together we save the world economy from depression and now our urgent challenges to create the growth of put people to work. we need growth that is fair where every nation plays by the

rules, where workers rights are respected and our businesses can compete on a level playing field. where the intellectual property of new technology that fuels innovation are protected and where currency's are market driven so no nation has an unfair advantage. we also need growth that is broadened, not just for the few but for the many. with reforms that protect consumers from abuse and a global commitment to end the corruption that stifles growth. we need growth that is balanced because we will all prosper more when countries with large surpluses take action to boost demand at home. and we need growth that is sustainable. this includes the clean energy that creates green jobs and combats climate change which cannot be denied. we see it in the stronger fires,

the devastating floods and the pacific islands confronting rising seas, countries with large carbon footprint. the united states and australia have a special responsibility to lead. every nation will contribute to the solution and its own way and i know this issue is not without controversy. in both our countries. by what we can do and what we are doing is to work together to make a dent precedent it to increase energy efficiency and to meet the commitments we made at copenhagen and cancun. we can do this and we will. as we grow our economies we will also remember the link between growth and good governance. the rule of law, transparent institutions, the equal administration of justice because history shows that over the long run democracy and economic growth go hand-in-hand.

prosperity without freedom is just another form of poverty. this brings me to the final area where we are leaving, our support for the fundamental rights of every human being. every nation will chart its own course. get it is also true that certain rights are universal. among them freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion and the freedom of citizens to choose their own leaders. these are not american rights or australia and rights or western are western rights. these are human rights. as we have seen in the democracies that have succeeded here in asia. other models have been tried and they have failed, fascism and communism, ruled by one man and rule by committee, and they failed for the same simple

reason. they ignore the ultimate source of power and legitimacy. the will of the people. yes democracy can be messy and rough. i understand you mix it up quite well during question time. but whatever our differences of party or of ideology, we know that our democracies we are blessed with the greatest form of government ever known to man. so his two great democracies we speak up for those freedoms when they are threatened. we partner with emerging democracies like indonesia to help strengthen the institutions upon which good governance depends. we encourage open government because democracies depend on an informed and active citizenry. we help strengthen civil societies because they empower our citizens to hold their governments accountable.

and we advance the rights of all people, women, minorities and indigenous cultures because the societies are more successful, they are more prosperous than they are more just. these principles have guided our approach for the combination of sanctions and engagement. today -- is free from arrest and some political prisoners have been released in the government has begun a dialogue. still violations of human rights persist so we will continue to speak clearly about the steps that must be taken for the government of burma to have a relationship with the united states. this is the future we seek in the asia-pacific. security, prosperity, and dignity for all. that is what we stand for.

that is who we are. that is the future we will pursue in partnership with allies and friends and with every element of american power. so let there be no doubt, in the asia-pacific in the 21st century, the united states of america is -- still, in times of great change and uncertainty, the future can seem unsettling. across the vast ocean it's impossible to know what lies beyond the horizon but if this vast region and as people teach us anything, it's the yearning for liberty and progress will not be denied. it's why women in this country demanded that their voices be heard, making australia the first nation to let women vote and run for parliament and one day become prime minister. is why the people took the streets from delhi to seoul to

jakarta to throw out colonialism and dictatorship and build some of the world's largest democracies. it is why a soldier in the watchtower along the dmz defense of free people in the south and why a man from the north risked his life to escape across the border. why soldiers in blue helmets keep the peace in the new nation and why women of courage go into brothels to save young girls from modern-day slavery which must come to an end. that is one minute piece and saffron robes faced beatings and bullets and why every day some of the world's largest cities to dusty rural towns and small acts of courage the world may never see, student posts a blog, a citizen signed the charter, and activist remains on about imprisoned in his home to have

the same rights that we cherish here today. men and women like these know what the world must never forget. the currents of history may add -- ebb and flow but over time moves decisively in a single direction. history is on the side of the free, free societies, free governments, free economies, free people. and the future belongs to those who stand firm towards those ideas in this region and around the world. this is the story of the alliance we celebrate today. this is the essence of america's leadership and it is the essence of our partnership. this is the work we will carry out together for the security and prosperity and dignity of

all people. so god less australia, god bless america and god bless their friendship between our two peoples. thank you very much. [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause]

[applause] >> mr. president on behalf of the house and the parliament i thank you for your interest and the depth of the message. as the leader of the house you have been received as a much welcome friend, especially as we commemorate three years of the formal alliance. as an individual, you inspire us all, is a symbol of what we can achieve and as you remind us of what we also achieve. as a former senator i know you are pleased that we have -- are present with us and our senate colleagues in thanking the president of the senate and the

senators, i thank you for inspiring in them the appropriate behavior that the grandeur of the location dictated. [laughter] i wish you a successful and enjoyable reminder of your stay in australia had success in your travels in the region. i hope that you have a safe return home to your cheese and kisses, that is the mrs., the wife. [laughter] and for the -- your kids, your children. [applause] [applause]

that was president obama's address to australia's parliament. president obama winding down his eight-day asia-pacific trip. he also met with australian troops and a reince thursday. the president is attending the east asia summit in indonesia on friday, the country where he spent part of his childhood. this weekend he heads back to the united states.

we are not immune in this country from these forces. you are preaching multiculturalism. what holds us together? >> mr. buchanan's book is suicide of a superpower and from new york city the 62nd annual national book award. find a complete schedule on line at booktv.org. >> there's a story i was told from the of administration that when obama was given the first budget and there were some six or 7000 earmarks, his first instinct was to detail that budget and he was told by his lobbyist on capitol hill there is no way can do that. you can't cut ties with the democrats and i just think had he vetoed that he would have been the tea party. had he signaled his fundamental

desire to change the system and to change the way the for washington works, he could have continued to rally the reform movement that now breaks out all over literally the world because of its frustration with the current way that democracy doesn't function. >> next, gop presidential candidates michele bachmann meets with the "des moines register" editorial board to talk about her campaign. she discusses the nation's health care system, foreign-policy and weighs in on the use of waterboarding during interrogations of terrorist suspects. the paper's editor rick green starts out the meeting which is just over an hour. >> good afternoon. i'm editor and vice president of the "des moines register" in iowa and we are honored to have with us today republican congressional candidate from the

sixth district of minnesota michele bachmann. thank you very much for being with us today. we will be spending time talking about some of the issues were not only the state of iowa but also the country. we know you've been actively involved in the campaign. thank you very much for being here today. >> thank you. i appreciated. >> what i would i've elected to do is give you the floor for a minute and a half to give an opening statement about the things you are seeing and hearing and how you are reacting with voters out there. >> i wanted with all due respect to say i am a republican member of congress but not a congressional or con candidate. i'm running to be the next president of the united states in 2012 on the republican party ticket and i'm proud to be able to be here and thrilled i was the first caucus states. i came in late in the race. i had gotten involved in the iowa straw poll. what i'm told is no candidate has come and in with so little

time and i was the first woman to win the iowa straw poll. i'm proud to have that distinction as well. we are not resting. we are working very hard. being involved in a straw poll was a good thing for our campaign because number one we won but more importantly than that it forced us to be very disciplined early on in the campaign and to do the hard work in the that needs to he too done in iowa. i was about eating on the ground of meeting people in actually finding support state to state person by person living by -- living room by living room. that is what we did in the straw poll. so we are very pleased we worked as hard as we did and had a very strong base in iowa but we are going to continue to work on that. we held two meetings today, one in store mike at 9:00 and after that we went to webster city iowa and we will be traveling today. that's that is what we are doing. we are doing exactly what needs to be done. meet with the voters, hear what they have to say and continued

to go on and progress. we are following the schedule which is iowa first in the new hampshire and south carolina and on. we like to schedule and we are we are working it very hard. [inaudible] >> i think no one has ever seen an election quite like this one. the politics is always the unexpected is net and in this 101 thought i had a chance to win the straw poll. everyone said it was never going to happen that we one. part of it is because i'm an extremely hard worker. our team as a hard-working team and we all work together. my message resonate with the voters in iowa and as we have seen throughout the state everyone thought on any given day they thought this candidate will be the next president, this candidate will be the next president and it is continually changing. there's anything we have seen is the fluidity of the race and we are seeing candidates go up and candidates go down and it certainly isn't locked in cement by any stretch of imagination. we see our candidate secede on

the epson right now. we certainly see that where we are meeting with voters on a regular basis. the national beauty pageant polls are one thing, the iowa poll is another but we are drilling down even deeper person by person. we are excited with what we are saying and we are seeing new information coming out about the candidates. this is a good thing. is one of the most difficult things i've ever done in my life but it is good. i defend this process because it is tough. after all we are vying to be the next leader of the free world. the voters need to know who we are, what we are made of and how we take. i have gotten my body blows in the other candidates are getting their body blows. this is a good process. we need to go before the people and be fêted so i'm grateful for it and i defend this process. [inaudible] c. i think early on my numbers were also very high. i think people look for instance at me and my background on i'm

an unapologetic social conservative. i was being attacked for social conservative positions. i have never apologized for the fact that i am pro-life or stand for marriage between a man or woman. attacks came from that score but you know i was happy to take on the issues. >> on that point, you have carved out a fairly narrow slice of a fairly narrow slice of the republican party. how come if you were the nominee how do you reach out and bring in the middle not only republican party but americans? >> that is it beauty of what i saw happen at the straw poll. every stop of a win to almost every day i would do about six times a day during the straw poll and at almost every stop someone would come up to me afterwards and say michelle i'm a democrat.

i voted for barack obama but i'm voting for you and people would say michelle i voted for barack obama and i'm independent but i'm going to vote for you. we saw that stop after stop after stop. that is exactly what we are going to see. this election more than any other people are not interested in republican or democrat. it isn't that they have affiliation with a party. it's who is the person, who is the candidate and there is very strong bipartisan agreement that we are in a steep decline in economy so people want someone who will be a unifier. i can be again a fire. that's what i've done. i got elected in minnesota which is not known for being a conservative state. i was the first republican woman to get elected out minnesota to go to the capital to represent my state. i'm proud of that distinction but also i did it not by tap dancing. i'm not a politician. i'm a real person. i was 50 years old when i went to congress and i'm 55 years of age now and i've been very forthright and very bold about my positions.

one thing people appreciate about me as i say what i mean and i mean what i say and i don't dance around. i am very forthright. i think that kind of frankness people are looking for and they want someone with a real planted deal with the economy. and a former tax lawyer. i get taxes and my husband and i have started a business from scratch and we are profitable. to get the travails of a small business person goes through,, and i assess it on this financial services committee. i've got that kind of the background to do with economy and i think i have the right solutions to jennie economy around. that is the number one issue in this race, jobs and economy but i also have a background serving on the house intelligence committee which is dealing with the nations -- now that issue is rising. it was rising before the campaign that the issue of dealing with national security is rising because of a iaea report they cannot last week dealing with the threat of a nuclear weapon on the part of

iran. i think that will continue to be front and center and it needs to be because i think we are seeing that the united states is any more position. a lot of that has to do with the fact that the supercommittee and here again i was a lone voice in the wilderness of washington d.c. last summer. is the one of the only voice that said we have enough revenue coming in to pay the interest on the debt. let's do that. let's not see our credit rating go down, but all 535 of the should be here in d.c. right now and look for how we are going to cut a significant portion out of the budget. it would be painful to have to make a cut but we need to that because we can continue to borrow at the level we are borrowing at. i drew a line in the sand. i was a lone voice but here we we are. we saw our credit rating downgraded and here we are kicking the can down the road five months later. we are no closer to any sort of a deal and in fact it looks like

there've will be a train wreck. fully of the train wreck this is what is going to happen. we are either going to be massive tax increases that are going to hurt job creation or we are going to see massive cuts to our military. we absorbed about 400 billion in cuts this summer. now we are looking at absorbing another 600 billion we need look no further than the head secretary panetta who said to john mccain, get the supercommittee prevails and we have, or doesn't prevail, however it works out, there's 600 billion in automatic cuts. if that happens we could be looking at sending the armed forces back down to troop levels of 1940. we would be looking at sending the memberships we have back to 1914 levels and are air force at its lowest level of aircraft. it's coming at the worst possible time because the economy is flat on its back end and you have the military the

same time? it doesn't take much imagination to figure out what that means for our vulnerability in terms of national security. it wouldn't be a good scenario. >> you have covered a lot of ground here but you talk about the debate which led to the supercommittee being created by raising the debt limit. do you still feel that -- and what he think the impact was if we had not. >> i think it was wrong to raise the debt ceiling. we raised by 2.4 chilean dollars. the day that i came into the united states congress we were in debt $8.67 trillion. it took us 219 years to accumulate a 267 trillion in debt. here we are today, we are just about at that 15 trillion-dollar level of debt. we have gone in a little over four years time from 8.67 trillion in debt to 15 trillion. by next year we will be at

minimum $16.7 trillion in debt. that is almost doubling the national debt in five years. what is changed is the velocity of spending. we have ever spent at this level because you can just look at the contrast. in 2007 the debt for the year was $160 billion. last month in october the debt was $203 billion just for one month. is the velocity of spending, the velocity of debt accumulation. so much so that that works out to 600 50/50 dollars for every man woman and child in the united states. for a family of four that's $2300 in additional debt that they have to pay for. so what families are saying and what anyone is saying is that congress spends money faster than people can earn it. >> what is the net effect of saying we are not going to borrow another time starting tomorrow? >> the net effect is we will pay the interest on the debt. that is the standard & poor's

and moody's, that's what they look at. can you finance the debt? >> which is how much per year? >> the debt, the interest on the debt? the interest on the debt is getting worse. it was at 50% and i don't know what it is now but i know it will be doubling in 10 years. and it will be added level, or let me correct that. we will be spending more money on the interest on the debt in 10 years and we are on the military. >> that is my question. if you pay interest on the debt and the things we have to pay for, social security etc. than everything else would have gone away the next day? >> what we need to do is not avoid reform. that is what every administration does including republicans. this isn't just democrats. they are fording the tough issues which is reform. that is what we have to do. we have to reform programs we have today. when i was born in iowa we

didn't even have medicare. it wasn't until i was about a 10-year-old but we had medicare. in that time we have a program now that is a good 45 years of age. it's time to have reform. we have got to reform the program because the way it is going now those numbers on spending aren't going to stay at a plateau. they are going to escalate. >> what the's medicare reform look like under your policy? >> i like the direction of paul ryan which is to take a look at how we are subsidizing health insurance. it isn't just for senior citizens. i want to change health health r all americans. today we have in essence what will be socialized medicine with obamacare and what i want to do is allow all americans -- do i want to and the monopoly that insurance companies have in every state and i want to let every american in and every i went fight any insurance when they want anywhere in the united

states with no federal requirements and no minimum requirements. pay for that policy when their own tax-free money whether whether it is a premium, the deductible or the co-pay or pharmaceuticals or the chiropractor. i wanted to build the pay-for that with their own tax-free money. i want to have malpractice reform because it deals with the cost issue. the other thing i would like to do is offer a liability shield to any doctor corner sort drug company or clinic or hospital who wants to offer care, free care to poor people. when i was a little girl in waterloo my mom would take us to the doctor and they would say we don't run to the doctor. they would take this and a doctor's visit was $5. so we would go and see the doctor at the doctor also saw people who couldn't pay. he just did not charge people who truly could not afford it. he knew someone was abusing the system or not and he just in charge.

today it's different. you have people who was to use of doctors in a different position and i think if we want to encourage people to offer care free to people who truly through no fault of their own can afford or we should and one thing we can do is offer a liability shield. the biggest problem of health care costs, that's the main problem and president obama says every household would save $2500 a year if we went with obamacare. i haven't seen one island at who is told me they have saved $2500 a year on their health insurance premiums. in fact is going just the opposite. my plan addresses the issue of cost and that is what i want. [inaudible] >> no, absolutely not. i brought 40,000 americans to washington d.c. to fight against obamacare because obamacare will be more expensive than anyone begins to dream it will be. will be terribly expensive.

just for a long time we need a new entitlement program. number one we can't afford the cost of it that number two we are seeing that we are already restricting doctors and i will give one example. i was in rock rap is doing a town hall. a physician stood up coming as a family practice guy, very tall guy and he stood up and said michelle let me tell you what does happen to me because obamacare. the irs is enforcing obamacare. they are hiring 16,500 new agents to enforce obamacare. he said i have to call the iraq is because i had a woman on medicare and i had to get a number for her. he's a guess how long i was on the phone with the irs will she waited in my office? i say, how long? he said two hours and 15 minutes. he said i'm so frustrated. this is what obamacare is going to mean for me and it wasn't just her that way to. his time was wasted and all the other patients sitting in his waiting room stacked up too. this is the kind of bureaucratic heavy system we have.

i want to get rid of obamacare. i want the legislation on the first member of congress to introduce a bill to repeal obamacare. i want to repeal it and put my plan into effect that actually addresses the cost issue. >> in the form of a tax break how will it help someone who works for a small company who doesn't have the company provided health care plan now and can afford to buy one? how does that nonexistent tax break in that person's case work for him under your plan? >> at it obsolete helps them because now they can buy the cheapest possible plan that they can get. i think a lot of people will buy catastrophic health insurance plans and what we'll be seeing under my plan is we will be encouraging for example medic clinic's to grow a so let's say people, somebody has their child at a soccer game and they have an injury and they can run their kid there and get them seen

immediately by a doctor and pay for that. that is the biggest problem in health care right now. the third party intermediary. no one even knows what health hh health care costs anymore as he conceded the government is involved and the government by far is the largest merger of health care in the united states for one particular entity so what i want to do is be able to reintroduce the free market into health care so people on their plans. >> well kind of health care coverage that you had over your career? has otherwise been government health claire -- care? >> no, it hasn't. [inaudible] >> we have also purchased on our own one of the biggest problems with the tax code is that the individuals cannot deduct their health insurance on their income tax. businesses kim but not people and that is wrong. i introduced the bill in congress that is the health care freedom of choice act and that

would allow americans to be able to purchase a health insurance policy and deductible on their income tax. they should be a will to do that just like a company can't do. >> people who the insurance company won't sell insurance to, what do you propose for that? people with preexisting conditions you can purchase health insurance. >> i think again it is the marketplace that knows how to best determine those costs. right now government is determining the cost of health care and all we are seeing is escalating cost. the market is to make that determination but it isn't that people necessarily have to go without health care. insurance is one thing. health care is another. states have come up with various solutions. high-risk pools or something that they have come up with and they're always going to the people that have chronic conditions or that have preexisting conditions and that doesn't limit the state. the state can come up with high risk plans and i believe that

they will. they have in the past. i'm not sure exactly but i think is 30 some states have high-risk pools. what they try to do then is that at the state-level put state level put together a subsidy so that people can't pay what would be more of a normal price for health insurance and in the state comes in and pays the difference. if that is what a state chooses to do, i encourage that but again we also want to offer a charitable organization or doctors or clinic's to offer care to people who are indigent or people who are in a difficult place. the thing is health care will be provided. the question really is, what is the cheapest way, the most cost effective way to get the highest quality with the greatest number of people to have the greatest amount of care for the lowest possible price. that is not what we are getting. with government being the chief purchaser of health care and

united states and by chief i mean the entity that purchases the greatest amount of health care. they aren't getting a good value for that dollar. .. and we all see this stunning level of power that the

government has paired with obamacare there has been over 6000 pages of rules and regulations. this is a bill that will never finish being written and that is why ups came out with the study, and maybe it's two months ago now. they said the number one reason why employers aren't hiring is obamacare because today employers know that every employee that they hire will have at least a $2000 price on their head because if they don't always come and talk to their assigned to government and will be at least $2000. what government will do with any time or revenue than employers have to pay, it'll be far more than 2000. employers are reluctant to hire new employees because they know the costs are exponential dealing with health care. >> on the car to sell vaccine can i do think vaccines are dangerous and did you vaccinate your own children?

>> sure we vaccinate our children. they went through and had the measles, mumps or belles lettres and tbn all upset baby shots that they had to have. they had them, i had them on as a baby. but we've seen a difference in the number of vaccinations for children have is far more than they used to have been born or are encouraged all the time. that is a decision parents need to make on behalf of their children. that is the point i was making in the debate, that this is a decision outbreak of an aramaic, not to abuse its executive authority, which governor perry admitted he did abuse the authority. this is a decision appearance and children have to make. the more important issue in all this was of crony capitalism. it was the idea of a politician paying off their political donors with either mandate or government contracts. the area at the federal level

from the biggest scandal we hear a lot about how a cylinder. a new one is coming out with beacon power. no politician should be paying off their political daughters. [inaudible] >> well, i am not attack her. i'm not a scientist. mma cannot point. my point is the abuse of executive power and also crony capitalism. >> the question of nuclear weapons report, how would you deal with that issue here i present? >> number one, going back to daytime and president president came into play, it was naïve at best and foolish hours for the president to meet with iran with no preconditions. that was unprecedented. this is a nation that is violated one problem -- one

issue after another with iaea. they've been unwilling to inspect her sin and there's all sorts of problems with iran. iran has stated repeatedly over and over again that once they gain a nuclear weapon they would use it to wipe israel off the face of the earth. so the president sat down -- i should say the addition and trade administration met with preexisting conditions. with the president gave her an with the luxury of time. time to continue unabated to develop a nuclear weapon. this is extremely serious. it is the number one threat that faces the nation. not only our nation, but others across the world because we know what iran will do. they will share the information, technology and power the nuclear weapon not only with themselves. they will shatter with syria, which is a courier for them, and a courier to the organization which are hezbollah in lebanon and hamas in the gothic area and

they will share with sudan. what they see as president obama made what i believed was the wrong decision in a treaty with russia last december and we have seen a denuclearization, if you will, of the wealthy nations by third world basket case nations are getting this out. this has very serious and profound implications in iran associate nation as you know and will fit a call for nuclear weapon in the sunni as well. so we will be seeing nuclear as middle east. and i don't think that will lead to peace. ultimately what i want is the president of the united states is peace in the middle east region and the peace around the world. and to be a world that appears i think the united states has been a good global leader. we are not perfect. we've made a lot of mistakes,

but i think the united states is taking a position of strength. >> middle east with iran as a nuclear power. >> the mistakes he made in the past. when the white house now. what are you going to do? >> there'll be likely three scenarios. either iran may make a strike on israel or the u.s. can make a straight. i would hope it would not be the u.s. making a straight. hopefully no one would make that straight. right now the rain hasn't gotten the signal from anyone that they have something do lose if they continue to go forward. they have continued to develop not only the enriched uranium, but also the ability to deliver a nuclear weapon. they have continued to go forward unabated in a manner

that is played not only the united states at risk, but the rest of the world at risk. >> what is a signal that needs to be sent? what needs to be sent vis-à-vis iran? >> right now i can come a president obama has taken us of the table, which is extremely foolish in my opinion. we need to isolate iran economically. >> we haven't done anything. >> i'm not saying there aren't any that are meaningful. because the meaningful sanctions would be with the renamed central banking community so they wouldn't have access to funds. we could shut them down in a heartbeat if we were able to stop money from flowing to iran. if they couldn't sell oil and receive money in return then you have to have a banking system to do that, they'd be done. president obama has been unwilling to do that to a man.

i think that has been tragic. he's failed to bring the russians and the chinese and those he needs to do bear because i believe he has taken aside the central issue, which is dealing with nuclear iran. instead, he was diverted with libya. i came out immediately and said i was supposed with the president was doing in libya. not because i'm such a fan of moammar gadhafi, but at that point, libya was not posing a threat to the united states and that isn't me saying it. at that time as secretary of defense case. secretary of defense gates said there was no american national interest and there was no mission in libya. why are we going into a country when there's no final american national interest and no mission? al-assad for the united states to be there. [inaudible] >> we unilaterally begin the

bombing. president to dominate the decision while congress is still in session. i was in washington that we can make that decision. congress was fair. he did not consult congress and said he didn't have to. i believe he did. he went forward and made that effort in unilaterally rewrite repair. only after the united states began the bombing did we then join up with nato. but again, don't forget who provides the number one source of funding for nato. we do. we provide the money and also secretary of defense gates came out just before she resigned and says nato need to start paying their own free. we have been pain free for them. we have been providing% for europe. europe needs to stand on their own to see. we need to stop providing their defense for them. we are far too extended beyond what we should be. we cannot afford that. i am not one who says that he can't cut back on defense. we can.

but let me tell you one area. we have a problem when it comes to procurement. there is a military-industrial complex in washington d.c. in the issue of procurement is scandalous. worked today we have a cost plus fee basis and we pay based upon how much time it takes to develop a weapon. now if you order a couch, you don't pay more money if it takes longer to build that cows, but that's what the federal government does. we pay my money based upon how much time it was. we need a fixed price system where we say we'll pay you x amount for this aircraft carrier or xml for this weapon and that's it. and then you figure it out and get it developed. instead, we are getting played all the time on procurement. and this is why we have to change. try to carry something that is reformed. it isn't something i want to cut back on benefits for service people, but try carry some tenet

needs to be reformed. >> in a recent debate on foreign policy you broke ranks with some of your colleagues. is the notion of torture being acceptable consistent with your general faith and values? >> well, i don't accept your premise that is torture. i don't accept that as a premise. >> what do you think it is quite >> it was enhanced interrogation technique we used to bring about information. i would go back to the example of harry truman. harry truman was asked that his decision to drop the bond. that is a terrible decision harry truman had to make. he made it and he said if i had to said if i had to kill a dozen japanese to save one american life i will and he made that decision. so let me finish. so in that vein as vice president of the united states had someone who was a terrorist in the waterboarding was done on khalid sheikh mohammed committee

admitted mastermind of 9-1-1 and then with the bitter by the vice president and we did extract useful information from him that helps prevent other incidents. if i had knowledge that we could use some game like a waterboarding to be able to save the american people, what i'd use that? efa weight because waterboarding does not kill anyone. it's an uncomfortable? yes, it's uncomfortable. i am more concerned we would prevent aircraft from going into the twin towers, taking them down and taking up 3000 innocent american lives than i am about the comfort level by the terrorists and what that means for them. again, this is done under monitored conditions. it's uncomfortable? yes, i do not deny, but a person will not lose their life, nor would they be permanently injured or permanently impaired by this. and it is done on theory unique,

strict circumstances. the >> and here's the other problem. what is that the president obama is doing today? we no longer had the cia interrogators. cia interrogators are no longer to deal with enemy combatants. all we have is the army field manual and we publish it online. so any terrorist can see what's going to happen to them when they are captured. and it is in effect -- they know exactly what we are going to do with them. and so they don't fear. there is no fear, no respect for the united states because they know exactly what's going to happen. something else they brought up on the debate is we no longer have placed to put them in jail once we capture them. doppler shifts, but that is not a long-term solution. we bagram air force base, but that is not really a detention

area is obvious is the army field manual, when are we going to recognize we are at war? we are at war with an enemy that means this is. our enemy sees we are at war. they are acting like we're at war. we are the ones acting like we are not aware. be a rapport war with an enemy that wants to see is defeated and dad, so much so that it wasn't that many weeks ago we thought iran trying international assassination plot on u.s. soil. they wanted to carry this out at a restaurant that presumably would be filled with members of congress and senators and hundreds of innocent americans and they had no compunction about killing the innocent americans. here in washington d.c. in our nation's capital. the >> getting back to the question of waterboarding. he said it's been done on terrorists, but it's an interrogation technique to determine whether people were terrorists. these people have not been

tried. the >> asm is the admitted mastermind of 9/11. he admitted guilt and also wanted to be executed. there is no reason -- those determinations need to be made by the president and those who are in that hierarchy creed of authority. certainly not everyone is waterboarded, nor is everyone waterboarded. it is an extraordinary technique and i am saying is i think that a president based on that technique on the table. >> if you think it's not that that which he willingly submit to see what it's like? >> that would be absurd to have the president of the united states president of the united states submit themselves to waterboarding. there are those who estimated themselves to it so that they can talk about it and speak about it afterwards. but again, let's look at the context. the united states of america was attacked in an act of war.

we lost the twin towers. we lost 3000 innocent americans. flight 93 went down over pennsylvania and innocent lives were lost. the pentagon had a plane flown into and we lost hundreds of innocent lives there. this is a very real issue. i take it seriously. and this president as the united states and as commander-in-chief, i would do what i have to do to keep the american people safe. we are at greater risk now than when president obama came into office because you are looking at the inspect her of a nuclear iran. this changes the equation at potentially change the course of history. >> how do you respond to a person like john mccain who would also say he takes it very seriously and argues that by using torture, which is his definition of the word has actually made us less safe as a result. >> number one, i have the deepest admiration and respect for john mccain. he is a true american hero and i

respect him. i respect his opinion. but he and i would disagree on this issue. i see that this is an enhanced interrogation technique that should be something available to a president of the united states. limited use, undoubtedly. but something nonetheless on the right circumstance of a president needs to employ this should be in that toolbox. and that is where we disagree. i do not believe this makes us less safe. i think we are more safe if we're able to get the best intelligence in the best information. i think we also see a different type of war. if the level of threats we're looking at today aren't as much of a geopolitical nationstate suited in uniforms on battlefields. it is not especially that. we still have that element, but we do with rights today through interrogation. our best answers done through detention, rendition,

interrogation and that is why we need to have the interrogation, but we also need to attention. i would continue and keep up in guantánamo bay because we have to have somewhere to have people that are in detention and also our special forces. our special forces proved themselves that they would bin laden and we need to make sure we have the resources that we have special forces. because it is a different kind of enemy, different kind of war and battlefield that we need to be able to adapt to that thread. >> what areas do you think president obama has done a good job? >> shortcoming you made the right decision to take on osama bin laden. i took on ron paul in the last debate on that issue. i felt that ron paul -- i disagreed with him. he felt it was wrong for the president to have made the decision to take out bin laden and to take out a lucky.

a lucky as he knows the one who is chief recruiter. he recruited major has on who is responsible for the four massacre in the americans killed there. he was responsible for recruiting the christmas day bombing that wanted to take an airliner over the city of troy. he was responsible for recruiting the times square bomber who was not a successful, but he before a federal judge that we are at war and were going to continue to be a war. and so, he was very yet given very involved in recruitment. and he was right that president to dominate that decision. he also commended the president when he chose not to have a new helicopter built because again, the process is broken. it was far more expensive than it needed to be. he understood that and i appreciate him for doing that as well. it is and that every decision president obama nixes wrong. they aren't. he makes decisions i can agree

with. what i think the general direction he has taken has been a disaster and i disagree with him. there is some decisions he has made as right and i thank him for that, but i think certainly i don't believe he deserves to have a second term. i think he has weakened the united states and made us more vulnerable to enemy attack. >> so what is your firm enough for turning the economy around? >> my formula is found that michele bachmann.com. it's real jobs right now, an 11-point planned that begins as a basis come as a comprehensive plan. number one, and probably more committed than any other candidate in this field to the full repeal of obamacare. i'm committed to the full repeal. i wrote both pieces of legislation and i called the jobs and housing destruction act. let me add this.

dodd-frank mandated rules be written. the estimate is just 236% of rules will require annually 11 million man hours just by way of comparison, building the empire state building which at that time is the tallest in the world was prior to 7 million man hours. but this was the level of cost we are going to have added onto the economy. while at. it is going to subtract the economy. this is one more reason we have to get rid of it. those two pieces of legislation for four years have been working on the issues of american energy production and in all of the above plan. i will legalize american energy production which is 1.4 million jobs will increase america's domestic supply by 50%. i want to see us get back down to the way barack obama took office. it was on average a dollar 79 a gallon.

i would love to see us get back to that. if we can increase supply and stabilize the value of the dollar or strengthen it, that will help. that is part of the reason. >> you've been a foster parent. >> talking about my tax the income i also want to kill $1.8 trillion worth of job killing and the regulations. i want to do with illegal immigration problem in the first candidate to sign the pledge that says i will build a fence on the southern border and i want to do with welfare benefits to illegal alien philosophy at english the official language of the country. i'm a former federal tax code i want to have essentially a flat tax system. but one that recognizes the people who make more need to pay more. they need to not pay any less than people at the middle and lower income level and that is unfortunately what herman cain and rick perry's plans do.

they had people at the lower and middle income level pay more than people at the higher end. i want to make a truly flat so people are disadvantaged. i also want make sure that the same rules apply to everyone and i want to make sure that everyone pay something. this is a departure from all the candidates. everyone needs to pay, even if it's $10 a year, that might be all some people can afford. >> what i am in favor of his doing away with the igc. the earned income tax credit. because that takes millions of people after the tax rolls and sends a check every year. something happens to people as 9747% of the american people pay zero federal income tax and 53% of the american people pay the rest of the income tax. the top 1% of income earners in the united states pay 40% of all federal income taxes.

now that's interesting. >> some pay nothing. >> that is what's wrong. and that is what is wrong because today -- i think it was last year, they paid minus 11%. ge paid 7% effect of tax rate. >> you would eliminate tax credits to corporations to give them money from the trade? >> what i want to do by abolishing the tax code that would deal with businesses as well. our tax rates are too high. the combined effect of rate of the federal and state tax burdens because all states are little different is about 40%. that is really the only thing you need to know about why we see jobs that the united states. a lot of countries have 25% corporate tax rates and falling and we way when a 40%. that is why when manufacturing westway told till about a piece

of equipment for million dollars. i could either put it in west des moines rna canadian plant for the tax rate is 18%. where would you go? is that i put it in canada. when i sent it wasn't a piece of equipment. it was the jobs that went with it. we've got to to be competitive in the world and we are stifling ourselves right now and we are deluding ourselves if we are embracing a dependency culture that looks like greece. if we are being uncompetitive like the old western european nations that we used to laugh at, when we are doing that, we are disadvantaging ourselves in terms of competitiveness. that is why we need to change the mindset of united dates that everybody pay something. growing up in iowa, a couple of adages my parents told me. one of them was nobody owes you a living. you've got to work. not everybody can work. anyway, we get are people who

are physically disabled or mentally disabled. nobody begrudges anybody for that reason. but nobody owes you a living is a pretty good idea adage. something else was an honest days work for an honest days pay. in other words, you have to work for your employer. the other thing is keep your word. >> does that mean eliminating welfare programs totally? >> it means taking a look at what linda johnson put in place in the mid-60s. what i want to do is go through the great society programs and i think a lot it should be ended. the states seem to make decision about if they want them or not. we didn't have this dance before 1964 comes to 1964 they came have only escalated from there. the same with a lot of programs came in the mid-sixties. we simply can't afford them. when the federal government spends 2.6 trillion burroughs

1.5 trillion that we don't have, we are in trouble. that isn't just one year. that is year after year. so that has to end. part of that is dismantling the modern welfare state. that is not a part of constitutional government. i want to get back to constitutional government. those programs in my opinion, states can decide if they want to do them, but we simply can't afford them at the federal level anymore. >> congressman, i want to talk about your fighters in congress so far. can you cite verse three years of legislative successes you've had conceived prepare for the white house? >> first of all, i've been a minority until this. so nancy pelosi was not interested in advancing their progrowth agenda. she should have because it would've been in a much better place today had she embraced the progrowth agenda. i've been involved in american energy, legalizing american

energy and i've been a strong advocate for that. i worked very hard to need 40,000 americans to washington d.c. to fight against obamacare. i work very hard on that. i worked very hard against dodd-frank, hard at putting fannie and freddie into a receivership, which is an orderly wind down to bankruptcy. i oppose the t.a.r.p. pillow. i was the leader behind closed doors, opposing bush administration on the bailout. i worked with democrats. we worked across the aisle and we brought down the first node on the $700 billion wall street bailout. we didn't prevail on the second one, but i tried in the best way that i could. now i'm working together with republicans and democrats in hoping to get a bridge built between wisconsin and minnesota and we think we might get there for an historic first. then praising president obama for that. it looks at this point the obama

administration is getting behind. i just got a call with the secretary of transportation in the interior and also senators franken, klobuchar and other representatives and we think we'll get that done. so it is possible to get something done to work together as republicans and democrats and i'm looking forward to it. >> is the only woman in the space, how do you feel that you've been treated by the press, the public and other candidates? >> , public has been on solely wonderful. people in iowa have been fantastic and all across the country. i haven't felt that anyone has seen me has any less were disqualified and i were to give thanks to my parents for stealing not. i had three brothers and no sisters and i was treated just like my brothers. by the way, is the best preparation for politics and a crook and have to her three brothers and a sister. you learn how to fight.

as far as the other candidates, they've all been very gracious and very kind and we don't see each other at all to speak out because when we go to events, we after talking to each other. we talked to people when we go debates. we go on stage and were up talking people. but everyone has been very nice and very gracious and civil. there certainly are differences in their reticent about pointing them out. and then you ask about the press. i think everyone wishes they could be treated better by the press, but i am grateful for the fact that the media has covered our events i am grateful they have covered our offense. as long as they report what happens, we are more than happy. there's a job the media has to do and we understand that. and so, it is what it is. i've never really winder griped

about the press or about coverage because i am grateful that they are they are in grateful they are reporting. and that is a wonderful thing about the day and age we live in is almost anyone can be a journalist today. if you have a phone and camera you can make history. with the advent of the internet, anyone can see what's going on any given minute. even at 2012 race is so far different than the 2008 race. twitter was certainly used in 2008, but much more so people are even more familiar with that. and i think it is interesting how the level of expert patient notes the public and the media have, everything is an instantaneous response that we have to become%, most every issue instantaneously as it happens. and it's difficult to be able to do to become% on every topic. but it's a good process. it is very good for us to go

through. i started our conversation today. one of the most difficult exercises i've ever gone through. but i descended to the hills because the job of the presidency will be extraordinarily difficult. it will take everything out of a person and then some. it's important for a person to go through this, to have to be better of the time. i appreciate that. you know, i have made mistakes and i want to be better in this process. and so i appreciate how tough this is because we want the best candidate as the next president of the united states. we want the best president we can have. i think i will be the best candidate. >> how do you feel about that comparison? >> i like governor paling. she's a wonderful woman. she has raised five children and she has been the governor and alaska and she has made great contributions. i am grateful for everything she is contributed.

she plays the trailer or by being her first female-based presidential candidate on the republican side. and she took a lot of abuse during the course of the time that she was a candidate. and i appreciate her for her willingness to stand up and serve her country. >> guys come i think that's going to be. congressman bachman -- >> did anyone get a chance to ask a question down there. you should ask them how they feel they are being treated by the media? >> allison, you give me one more? >> at night to ask you about afghanistan. he criticized the 30,000 troops searched the initiative than a 40,000 troop surge. if you were president today, what d.c. is the way forward in afghanistan? >> said they know what the president is doing. not just because he's democrat in republican running to oppose him. it was a big mistake for the president to be there for 20 minutes and needed.

with 40,000 troops, what could've been done is that commanders could have thought those on the eastern portion of afghanistan and on the southern portion because that's where the problem was to defeat the taliban and in all the militias that pakistan since two afghanistan. that wasn't possible when president obama made his decision because he failed to fulfill the request that was made. at that point the decision had been made to focus on this out, particularly helmand province, but we saw success nonetheless and the troops at a good job and we have seen better conditions on the ground. particularly around kandahar. but the problem is when they couldn't do with the problem quickly and both fronts, it's actually lengthen the amount of time the united states had to stay in the area. practices i would like to get in, get the job done, get out and get home. this is lengthen the amount of

time. now the president has said he will be pulling troops out by september of next year. that is less than a year from now. when the president sent 30,000 troops, it wasn't just 30,000 troops. he also announced the date we would be leaving. that is almost insisting that you were going to lose this effort. and you don't treat the president talk about winning. he done to the president talk about it or he. but is not after all why we send troops to win another victory? the president was giving peace -- we win the peace in iraq and he's determined to lose in iraq and we will by pulling all of our troops out by the end of this year. we know that because an iraqi general went to iran this week to make friends with the rand. the kurds have been doing the same thing. iran will be coming into iraq and on these schemes will be lost. that's why they changed the president that he needs to go back to the negotiating table and demand that iraq, a wealthy country, not a poor country,

should pay us back. we spent over 805 billion in iraq should pay us back. we lost a greater treasure, which is 4400 american lives. when it comes to afghanistan at this point, the president has made a test situation almost impossible, almost impossible for general alan because now that the troops are coming out, what ascii and he would be enlisted to help us, knowing they are going to be left with taliban. so the television is going to stay there. and so if they enlist to help us , dairy target and they don't see there's any victory. so what the united states has done is let down our allies and we've invigorated our enemy. and that is the failure of the president's policies. he is choosing to fail in iraq. he is choosing to fail in afghanistan. we cannot have this over with

and see afghanistan stand on their own by next september. so he's making a deliberate decision. this real problem with.com a network. we haven't even started dealing with that beast. so we can't possibly hold this out into what it used to the president troops out of south. >> is any republican nominee going to have to go in january 20, 2013 and increase troop levels? >> well, i intend not to be the nominee, but the next president of the united states. so i wouldn't be inheriting a situation where by 2012 the president conveniently enough just before the election would have made sure that he pulled the troops out. and really, it is more than nine years. the president is taking his orders from general axelrod. he is not listening to general allenby not be in a sand. he's not listening to general lost in in iraq.

he was listening to general axelrod and is essentially new centcom to chicago. it's also listening to general david frost. everything now is about his reelection. i think that is the lowest of the low for a commander-in-chief to make military decisions based upon his political reelection calculates, versus making military decisions based upon what is in the best interest of the united states and our security and our defense because after all that's what needs to be the number one issue of the commander-in-chief. >> one last question before we have a chance to say goodbye. less than seven weeks looking at the calendar folks and i will be headed to caucus night. we certainly will be sitting here talking about her endorsement. tell us why you should earn our endorsement. >> because i was reflective of the values that i haven't told

them what they're looking for the next president the next president of the united states. iowans want the next president to deal to understand the economy and know what to do about turning it around. i do. i have that perspective in the background both as a self-made individual who our family went below poverty at one point and i had to work my way through college and establish myself. i know what it is to be middle class. i know what it is to be below poverty and come out of that. i have the american value of no one owes you a living and give an honest days work for an honest days pay in your word is your bond. those are very important night of values. i lived those. i was taught us that my family incineration was lived in iowa since the 1850s. i had the practical knowledge is someone who started a business from scratch and rented profitably today. i have the background as a

taxpayer has summoned his sat on the financial services committee. i know what needs to be done. i formulated a coherent good plan that makes sense that i put that on my website. i know what needs to be done and i can bring people together to make it happen. you were going to ask me something about foster children. my husband and i have been married 33 years. we have five biological children we've raised and also 23 foster children and they are all grown and gone now. i got involved in politics because i was another. as a mother is concerned about what a site may foster children renominate that out. so i decided to get involved. i got involved in ultimately violated education reform movement in day five years of my life to education reform. it has been i were part of a group who started the first k-12 charter school in the united

states. our school was focused on not raise kids. we both have broken hearts for at-risk kids, my husband and i. three got involved in education reform and i am proud to say what became the first day, perhaps the only state to repeal is the federal education standards, which were politically correct dumbed down standards and instead we put in place, that was my effort that i have i been moved. it then went into the minnesota senate we put into place academic standards. just like when i grow up in iowa, i attended public schools. they were fantastic. i is such a good education growing up in iowa public school. then i went to minnesota and they were very good schools there as well. that is why we shocked when i foster children were bringing home in a backpack because i'd always been supremely blessed at the school site gone to and i was shocked. i'll give you one example. my 11th grade foster daughter in math class brought home

posters to color. our 3-year-old scholar, but if anyone needs a leg up in my it's a foster child. and i related it has in my own family we've gone below poverty. the mother said to me we lost everything. she said michele, there's one thing that can be never taken away. i pay attention to rented bone school. that helping make it in my spirits i wanted for foster children to also have the same opportunity and i wanted them to have the best they could. in 11th grade dare coloring and they are not going to have the best opportunities. it would hurt them first, but it would hurt business people like my husband and i because we have people wanting jobs that are well trained to know what her product dvd. so i got involved and i let the education reform movement. what is really remarkable about that is it was minnesota.

and what i thought was this was in a partisan issue. i never once said if i was a conservative or not. i went all over my state and spoke and gave talks about education. and because of me going around the state, people put pressure on the run senator, on their own house member to get rid of the education program called the profile with learning. and they did. i was serving in the minority and the minnesota senate we got rid of this program. everyone said he would never happen because education is the number one but two died in an almost in the states budget and this is the biggest program minnesota had ever accepted. we got rid of it and that is why i now -- it is pollyanna to think you can fight city hall, but i believe we can repeal upon the care. it's going to be the toughest thing that will ever happen. it's going to take a miracle to do it, but i think we can get

rid of obamacare because people hate it. i thought stood in minnesota and a democratic state, we think it's impossible, but we can do it on a national level. it isn't them against health care for people, certainly not for poor people. i want them to have it, i think we can deliver better health care at better prices directly to people because if there's anything medicare has shown us, it is blatant fraud. we've got to weed out the fraud. we want to make sure people get the finest health care. like i said, greatest quality health care for the greatest number of people at the lowest possible price. that's the definition of the free market. >> congresswoman, thank you very much. >> thank you. and that's why you want to be president of the united states. >> thanks for coming. i know you're so busy. >> thank you for your patience. we may not agree, but thank you

so much for having me. i really appreciate it. >> general axelrod, hot? >> that's going to get me in trouble. >> thank you. good to see you. >> i'm glad you found the question. >> i have to be back here editing. >> good to see you. >> you're welcome. thank you. bye-bye. the guy who holds the boom mike is to shake hands, too. [inaudible conversations]

>> up next on c-span 2, nasa officials testify about human space exploration. a hearing next at easing regulations on community banks. they care can enter a secretary ken salazar on oil and natural gas development on federal lands. >> for those who say, my

friends, to those who say that we are rushing this issue of civil rights, i say to them, we are 172 years late. [cheers and applause] to those who say -- of those who say that the civil rights program as an infringement on spaceflight, ice age is and the time has arrived in america for the democratic party to get out of the shadows of spaceflight and to walk forthrightly into the sunshine of human rights. the mac

>> next, a hearing on the future of human space exploration. nasa administrator charles bolden testifies about the international space station, technology development and potential commercial products. the chairman of the science subcommittee is florida senator and former astronaut, bill nelson. this hearing is an hour and 50 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning. well, nasa is cranky now. we've got -- you think back a year ago. in the years since the massive

bill, the massive bill was about the only thing that passed the 13 appropriations bills continuing resolutions that had to be done. up until the time that we pass the trade bills in the patent reform bill, and major legislation massive bill was the only thing. and now, thanks to this lady right over here and another lady named barbara mikulski, we now have not funded, compared to other agencies very well given the financial and fiscal environment in which we are and of which there cuts across the board. you compare nasa's budgetary level with the others. nasa has come out very well. and so we now have to pass the appropriations bill that senator

mikulski and senator hutchison crafted as they have worked it out with congressman wolf and congressman fatah in the final conference report on that many pass appropriations bill that includes massive. and what it does is it fun to find the rocket -- rockets in parallel. that is a balanced approach. the one-liners for developing the commercial rockets to take root and cargo to and from the international space station. and lest you question anything that going on on the international space station, realize that there is a drug that is in its final fda trials that is a for salmonella and

there is another drug that is in its starting fda trials. that is a vaccine for marcello. and those were developed utilizing possibilities. in addition, in balanced is the parallel line of rockets. and that is a big rocket. that will have we are now being made, mr. administrator, 79. it will have a crew of seven and it will be the big rocket that will enable us and it will evolve over time in its capability to get components into earth orbit and go further

into the cosmos, whether that is first the president's target of 2025 would be as straight before on to mars, whether it is that we go back to them to them to come at everything still to be determined. in the meantime, also in parallel is this plethora of other unmanned space emissions. and about to be launched as a volkswagen sized myers wrote her that as a scooper that can analyze the martian soil that has a red beam that will pulverize rocks that has two eyes that stick up that will beam back real-time images with

the transmission delay from mars back to earth for earthlings to see the rover around the circus. and of course we took us several months ago to venus. in the meantime we have done also a mission to the moon. the moons gravitational field as well as on earth observing satellite that is in polar orbit. so we've got a lot going on. and as we get ready for these two new rockets, there is the modifications to the ground operations and ground equipment. so with that is that that ground, we have a very robust future and our first witness is the administrator of nasa.

and then on the second panel, we have the center to wreck their are the three primary centers charged with executing nasa's human space exploration initiatives. bob cabana is kennedy space of senator. and of course he received the first to transferring the center into the next generation launch complex at where the work for us reside that one day launch the astronauts to mars. and mike coats, johnson space center, the home of mission control, center dating the development of the seven man crew vehicle. and robert lightfoot, marshall spaceflight center, which has designed every u.s. rocket that is the very launched units in tuesday's and it is currently

designing the space launch systems. so we look forward to this. i returned to my colleague, senator bluesmen. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and certainly delighted to join you, our subcommittee chairman this morning on this very important hearing. as always, it is a privilege to share the extinguish ranking member, senator hutchison. the patter consistent leadership along with senator nelson, we would not be in a position to hear what i hope will be a positive message from administrator bolden and other distinguished witnesses from concerning the key nasa -- the three key nasa centers. many said the nation as a crucial crossroads in her human spaceflight program. we are for the first time in over 30 years without the means of transporting astronauts into space. for july, the passage of the

2010 nasa authorization act last year in an overwhelming bipartisan and bicameral show support, provided the direction needed to remedy the situation as soon as possible. this hearing is intended to provide the committee with a progress report on how nasa is doing and carrying forward the provisions of the lot in the venus on the course outline by the loss. we are in a difficult economic times as we all know the fiscal challenges their creed and that is no less true at nasa than the rest of our federal household. in the relatively short time i served on the subcommittee along with more casual observations of nasa's spaceflight programs over the years have developed a sense of confidence and trust in the hard-working, dedicated people at nasa and their support contractors. i believe the technical experience, expertise and

commitment is there to meet these enormous challenges, although sadly somewhat diminished over the past year as we see in the awkward, in a few, unfortunately ill-timed transition away from the space shuttle program to an all too subtly defined set of replacement programs. we now must move with maximum speed and efficiency of within the constraints we face to get back on track. i look forward to the hearing today that we are making real progress in that regard, but i also went to europe as any obstacles which remain in which my colleagues and i can address and remove in the months and weeks ahead. the effective restoration of u.s. space exploration leadership is simply too important to the well-being of the nation, both economically and competitively for us to do anything less than our very best to ensure the success of what is now i hope our common share plan for the future of u.s.

spaceflight. thank you again for convening this hearing, mr. chairman. i look forward to the testimony exchange of questions and answers to follow and i yield back. >> senator hutchison. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i want to say first that i am going to talk about some of the preamble to today's hearing that this subcommittee has been instrumental in setting the direction and the course for nasa. we have provided the leadership and i obviously, senator nelson county have been there since the beginning. he has been the spirit, the leader, the little dog that god the bones that never would give it up. all those things that were necessary to make us