>> host: but do you think her project was to keep women in the home? >> guest: very much so. that was exactly what the argument of -- she may have changed her position on this, i don't know. but here's why. it's not, um, it's not simply like an issue, she didn't want -- this is what's so fascinating about phyllis schlafly. she didn't want a shrinking violate who was just going to -- violet who was going to make the man his meal, she learned. and, again, not in an insincere way. she learned something from the women's movement about the power that women actually have and the poe ten the si of it. -- potency of it. she happened to think it adhere inside a very different kind of relationship to men than feminists do. ..

if a. >> she is just as much a

product of the feminist movement as much as their a formidable. and that is the paradox that is a fascinating element that often times it is a product of the very movement that is supposed. >> host: i want to end as we started with your beginning and to end with your conclusion you say modern conservatism came on with the 20th century to defeat the great social movement of the left. as far as the eye can see it has done so and can now leave. do you believe conservatism is an organ that goes the way of the dodo bird? >> definitely not. it is it extraordinarily modern and reinvented movement and it will always be around so long as there

is a left demanding greater freedoms and equality will always be around. this book is a protest against that. >> host: whether it will and how much it takes out with it is the last line of the book. thank you. it has been a pleasure to sit down with you.

>> in the center of your screen is but our at the university of texas campus we have been here conducting interviews with professors who are also offers for every sunday during the month of a member we will bring you those interviews at 1:00 p.m. eastern time as part of our universities series. >> good evening. this was the gertrude concept that they brought to life here at the bookstore books & books store in miami.

thank you so much for having me. is a pleasure to be here with a wonderful and beautiful place. this will not shock you because you do not know me but i started off as a poet but to write about a crime is the farthest thing that was ever from my mind. i never pictured myself interested in bled come my guns, dead bodies and i tried to stay away for them -- from them as much as i can. even when watching tv at home if somebody pulls a done i am the first to change the channel. per be to write about an assassination is a complete shocker to me.

the way it fell into my lap as it was mentioned earlier in the introduction, the political assassination that i wrote about took place in 1992 berlin germany at a restaurant. two gunmen one with a machine gun the other with a handgun walks into a restaurant in would shoot at the eight guessed that had gathered for a dinner party that night and shot them all four of them died instantly and the other four survived. of those survivors one was my house guest for several weeks. i knew little about him. a friend of a friend coming to town in new haven connecticut and as i was

trying to cook dinner in the evening keeping him company, trying to be a good host i was chopping onions and he was trying to help to make conversation. i made the mistake of asking so what happened to you september 1992? the rest was history. he would tell me a new installment what had happened to many minds that it may seem and the most interesting part of the story but actually what i found the most fabulous and engrossing was the way in which the investigation unraveled i would make my dinner and going about my

own thing and he would be giving the then next day the investigation until it came up to the trial and by that time which was about one year into his storytelling i thought i should take a trip to berlin germany to visit other people. of course, i said to this up to say when you have a writer who started off as a poet and is very squeamish about anything having to do with blood, then you get a crime story told in a way that few crime stories are told that against everybody's a vice rather than talking about that craig-- a crime to delay that it that they get to the gruesome crime halfway through the book or 2/3

down, i get rid of it in the first five minutes of the book and say let's move on. and i hope when you do decide to read the book, it in a way, not ole a call its look but also a woman's look at a very, very dominated story and i call it that story because the killers were men that people who died were men of the people who get involved were men and so i guess for be to try to look at this intriguing story to say how when i look at this lourdes find interesting what is it would make such a in gruesome

story intriguing for all readers from a perfectly new perspective or revolutionary perspective? and you will tell me if i have achieved to create that sort of perspective. that is how widows. i get rid of the crime and i follow through pretty diligent may, after i take my trip to berlin, the subsequent characters that i met to, one seems to be more intriguing than the other. that was not because anyone of the survivors or investigators were perfect people but rather than with their imperfections in probability they altogether contributed to bring about a

very historic trial and verdict which by the accounts i have received from several days ago historians, happens to be one of the most important trials in the history of europe in the 20th century. and you're probably just as surprised as i am my nine of us heard about it. that is precisely why. because it seemed like a very important story that have gone untold. you know, there are eight people sitting and to people what can one person stands guard for people are shot and died immediately in four others survived. the first person in my

kitchen and talking to me was one of the four survivors named teethree. one of the first questions i asked him was so what did you do when you first got home? it may not seem like the smart question to many of you but i was curious. what if one of us survived such an atrocious crime and the police come we go to the headquarters and get interrogated or whatever they do fingerprint i don't know then it is all over and several hours later in his case for a 5:00 a.m. my your home and you have to go back to your life as usual to

your own space in apartments that was one of the first questions that i asked. what happened to the next morning when you we're done? they said you can now go home. i will read a very short passage from the moment he arrives home and his thoughts then follow through with some of the other characters. >> these microphones are wilting. is that okay? [laughter] sorry about that. i broke the microphone.

all he wanted to do was to make calls. he pave the perimeter from blast television set where the news was on to the telephone on his bedroom desk to where he was boiling water over and over again. his morning routine had been as part of the thought of beating our going to bet did not enter his mind. he dialed his secretary i will not be in today he told her and when asked why? he broke into a saab. were you broad? is your daughter missing? hall he would say is turn on the news. he took a shower under the rushing water he kept his eyes wide open if he closed

them he was scared the arm in the black sleeve across his mind and not until the water hits a his body then he remembers the blow on his right side. the age of real-time news had not dawned and they were not yet looking for him but on the ordinary morning he would have wrestled in the piece with the uproar within him, this is the antithesis to peace. he returned to his desk and made another call to a friend on the editorial board hello there. how the parvic softly modifying the last syllable think of paris.

and then andy letters of my name is late mispronunciation was a small sacrifice and then for the ordeals of the journalist i was there at the restaurant where the four men died last night. i heard. let's have coffee one of these days to talk it over. today is insane. parvic taken aback by the lukewarm response was forming his next sentence when the reporter brushoff the quick dismissal caused a wave of panic. for years he added collect a journalist the wave they collect stamps they had found a captive audience he had been perfecting since childhood when he and his

friend who could not afford to go to the movie pull their offices together to buy a a single ticket for an emissary to see and then recount the film so elaborately that the real film if the others did get to see it fell short of the description. journalists have always been the most formidable ally years ago at after his visa expired the same editorial writer had saved him from deportation by writing a piece on the repressive immigration policy but now? two whom would he turned down? the same place filled in to the receiver wants more. i am sorry. it took me a bit to register what you said. did you say you yourself were at the restaurant last night?

>> that is what i said. then we will talk interest -- instantly. then he interviews and writes the editorial that runs the very same day in the paper. but what becomes the thrust of the murder in the beginning september october november 1992 is who did it? on one hand exiled iranians to have their own opinion and politicians in journalists who were circulating other possibilities sell a slew of ideas were circulating around. and that was the dominant theme of the first three months however very quickly

thereafter, a very wonderful and most intriguing characters of the book got assigned to the case say prosecutor. i don't want to kill the plot line but he sides with one possibility through a series that are swirling around that this is a government co-sponsored series of terrorist acts and assassinations so after his assignment the story chefs from will they do the right thing? will those who have power who can and have the ability to bring justice to these

victims and to what is expected of them? and do what was clearly mandated to do. so that leads to a trial that opens with in the year and in nearly four year proceeding very dramatic courtroom proceedings that that leads to a historic verdict april 1997. there is a confluence of characters and the buck and that is part of the challenges of putting the book together if i

fictionalized it it would eliminate at least 20 of them in my leading man who would then the prosecutor and investigator and then endow him with a great qualities and abilities to save the day which eventually he does. but not by himself. i believe this by all the advice and readers are very sophisticated that they can manage the multi character's story and can keep track of numerous characters and they don't a day singularity and

would never dream is that we wants have and we understand the confluence of characters and print-- personalities in events need to come together to come together for a great triumph. and then the character of the book of the plot line and then narrative itself and that is how we follow. and 2cf the other angle of

this the one to discover one of the four men who had died that night. and entering the apartment she asked me where in the united states i lived. at the time my lived in the york and said i was coming from the york. she said that was practically the first sentence out of her mouth she wished she was here on 9/11. why? because she had also lost a loved one on september 17th 10 years earlier and knew how those widows who lost their

husbands and also had a daughter. and the children who lost their fathers we're going through and she wished she had been here she was in new york after 9/11 because she thought all of the people like her, the women should come together to create a network of widows who have suffered through the act of terrorism because it doesn't know national boundaries it is a problem that had plagued her as much as any american woman in the states. and in listening to her i decided the value of the story was beyond the parameters of what i was thinking about it initially thought there is something

to which he was saying about these particular acts of crime and which white house sponsored by radical ideology in this case, the government of iran, wanted the victims regardless of where they came from. that was extremely moving in the moment that made me resolute about wanting to write this book. last, but not least want to introduce her to you and listen to her frustrations and experience because we aren't just coming out of the tenth anniversary of 9/11 and i think much of what she told me for her grieving process reminded me of the stuff i was hearing

being played on radio in television the past few weeks. sohreh had a dog-- had dead daughter together and -- had a daughter together and i refer to the daughter of who appeared in the previous section so you'll hear about two children, two girls almost the same age and then also parvic who you have already met. something interesting that

happens is why no teethirty tries to gather documents and get the court to see the truth about the case to give the proper information to all the journalists in the midst of this and god knows recovering from the trauma, his 10 year-old daughter is having fainting spells. and nobody for the first few weeks this able to diagnose why. he takes heard to the doctor and we open in the doctor's waiting room. under the glare of the lights in the exam room room, parvic waited

sometimes kissing or stroking the hand of his daughter. she looked even more frail in the hospital down and he felt restless on behalf of his aspiring 12 year-old dancer who had been told to remain still. two fainting spells confounding several internist and pediatricians have forced the father and daughter to see a cardiologists. two fainting spells on her part and gilts on the father's part. ever since the murder parvic tried to keep his family away from the fallout the first phone call was to the ex-wife to shield salamain from the news before picking her up on tuesday, he combed through the airport -- apartment to hide the case from view the letter or phone messages or

that newspaper clippings but the more he hid the more she wanted to know. how did it happen? how many were there? did anybody hit you? >> they came they shot and they left nothing happened to me. nothing at all wishing to move on better questions continued. did you have blood on you? did you scream or cry? did you cry after? were you scared are you scared? the death of her curiosity astounded him. once he held the enough. and she stopped asking but he knew she had not stopped thinking. the dream of becoming a dancer turned her into a reluctant reader so he designed intricate plans a 70 elaborate dinner p lined up tiny appetizers which she

paraded before his ballerina at intervals in the small apartment father surrendering to the daughter swims had agreed to be a dance student although with the coach in tone deaf and uncoordinated the performances were memorable what he lacked din talent he compensated for in when he failed to remember his steps they steps he limped across the floor as he dragged if what he greeted an imaginary audience not with good to talk but with his own per eight -- german concoction with a michael bereday with his preadolescent child that

joey was no substitute for safety nor could he imagine her days as gold was classmates who treated her like a sensation only those questions should ask your own the ones work children mocking her father as the super hero while she stared into their faces and fought back tears when the first thinking spelled -- fainting spell came over salamain thinking she start yourself but then on a full stomach he blamed himself and his complicated life would cardiologists returned without a diagnosis ended feisty observe her closely he tried to keep track of his world was to the killers

robber of a happy childhood but now that fact and was a robbing her of breath. unlike salamain, sayre wanted to know nothing. but the difference is salamain father survived a cerus had died. in november she asked where her father was exactly now and if he was in pain. in december she asked if she could buy him a christmas gifts and leave them under the treaty until he returned and in february she asked if her mother intended to marry another man in if so if he would move in with them. by march she no longer ast per issue heard the name of the restaurant on the radio she would turn it off per issue recognize the faces of family or friends on television, she walked out of the living room.

to help sarah and her mother cope with a loss, the parents had moved in with the two of them for a couple weeks their presence strengthen that two of them although they cannot tell them that it did. sentence his failed her when she had in abundance was fear her parents steered her and waited for her to form a sentence. how did you sleep? she rarely felt hunger barely tasted the bite she took in front of them to assure them of her appetite. her parents a government car can housewife had led the serene and predictable lives it was that security to get of her to rebel to go off to europe. and mary a rebellious man

just like herself but she wondered, woulda sarah not be better off with ordinary parents? not extraordinary ones for all the time? she turns these thoughts over in her mind pleasing with a anger and to hell with extraordinary and every bit of its brilliance she would mumble to herself. her husband in rage heard now. stick with me and you'll be famous like you deserve he promised her when on the first night they had net was death his path to fame? once again he had abandoned them all the the pregnancy in delivery she was alone remembering the absence she would grow more furious each day and wondered if it was a warning to prepare her to raise their child alone she

no longer thought of him or his absence as in fund tout -- involuntary be he had left them again. the thought came to her when she played the old family movies and only for a few seconds walking with her along the race track where she ran her first compotation day's competition now as if through them the husband had sketched their future. everybody posed following his instructions but he was invisible and yet he would not be seen. they give for listening listening -- thank you for listening. [applause] i have been told that are

running the establishment that you need to wait for the microphone to reach you. >> what is the segment -- significance of the turquoise palace? i have not read the book yet to. >> there is a moment within the trial, a key witness nobody nobody knew even existed and he becomes says smoking gun. i and it is during a dialogue cahal and the q&a conducted that you will know the answer to your mystery. [laughter]

given your background as a poet, have you ever written non-fiction prior to this? if not, did you have any thought about the fictionalizing it to tell a slightly different story in that manner? >> this is the work of nonfiction and my previous work in english was a memoir. and actually come after eyepiece this together i decided this is really what i want to do. at least for the foreseeable future. what i love doing is going out to and finding the story is that are immensely

significant but have either fallen by the wayside never made it to the headline or were dismissed or shoved under the rug. i may sound paranoid but but i found i love the notion of the stories and they are so fabulous that you could hardly a come up with fiction we will find out if i did it justice but if i had come and then you agree with me it is so beautiful and astounding that's just in the way it unfolded it would have been diminished but i found that in some

great ways there was several dozen and my own they write about one because it happened quite in a magical way at the end of the five years. >> the significant cooperation of the survivor families for those that did not survive? >> a friend of mine who is also a writer and a journalist herself read the year earlier version to use say she was touched and deeply moved by a the quality of interviews in information that i have gathered. of course, i could have said they were a fantastic interviewer only opening up

to be. but in truth, precisely because the story had not been covered, i should not say not been covered but a certain a goal from me deeply political angle, in in peace is, it was a five-year span. dead to those who had lost loved ones, waiting for someoneo show what. -- show up idle the guy exercise any fantastic skills.

they were waiting for years for somebody to show what. the trial had already concluded and all material was there and there was the archive and there were catalog on shells. it would have been impossible to put together. >> i am a little unsure part of the german corporation to understand it was a hesitancy or lack of corporation for a carmike is committed in their own country? with the general attitude taking place on their own

soil? i can imagine there is german dissidents involved with a strong interest but for something like this to be that dramatic, that sounds to be unexpected. i am not an expert but just from common knowledge. >> you are right. one would think based on what one knows about germany and europe in the standards of practice that this should have been unusual and should have been treated as completely unacceptable and crimes like this which happened in austria, france, sweden, swi tzerland, italy, greece, the united states. [laughter] argentina later, they were

happening and oftentimes what would happen is i there if the perpetrators were arrested and in some cases they would not be either they were very good in got away but precisely because of these business interest interest, the authorities would be a little slower than usual to apprehend and they will lead slip away. a couple of cases they did in in the case of another assassination in vienna austria, at one of the perpetrators was apprehended and two weeks later put back on a plane and deported to tehran to cite national interest to say because of our national interest we will not prosecute this man.

and because of that war crimes were happening and in my view, eventually even from 1981 the first case was heard from 1997 when the verdict was issued, there is a 17 year lapse and is save burgeoning or a gathering of momentum of these assassinations because they seem to be able to get to rid of it because given the united states no longer had an embassy in because the united states didn't have political or any other interested, it was a beacon

of hope as a place for europe to slip into and the balance of power to happen within the middle east through this a foothold. says to the diplomatic interest and by 1992, as trade relations are at a peak and the iranians are absolutely certain that there is no way the germans would jeopardize those trade relations over a silly trial. so what makes the story fabulous is that to the germans precisely wanted to do that they hoped the german administration

politicians did want to make that child go away and make the case the way but it just wouldn't. so it is the process of have it would not go away how to powers come together to cover this up but yet it seems to go want to take a life of its own that makes it very wonderful. >> how has it changed you to write this? the sale changes the course of your career and now you like to do more books, as it had an impact on you? >> i was thinking about what i want to write next and i have a couple of ideas.

i have some plans that are very exciting to me. the only thing that has changed within me is that i once bought i would like to try my hand at fiction but after this i think there are so many great stories that have gone untold that if they are discovered and told properly by people who could have proper access common knowledge, i was in a privileged position with this story. being born and raised in iran, i clearly had access to a whole slew of things that a non i read and without a harder time to get at. so there are individuals and writers who are in a unique position to do certain

stories and i think we owe it, not just to the public but to history and to literature to rediscover the stories to show what it is about them that bakes revisiting. aside from the fact i keep talking about this as a great story, but in addition to that fact, it is also a very essentials story for all of us today you could not understand what in the world is going on with iran. it seems like the more we spend time come i say we including the white house from ordinary americans who are well informed, the more we spend time learning and

reading about it it seems like the less we understand it like bet terrible play and part of the reason, i don't find it enigmatic but i do find it tragic part of it is because there are fundamental their deaths we don't know about each other and certain stories that we need to know about each other and i believe this is one of them. during each presidency and the united states we hear iran is cast in a new light somehow. usually a dark light of the anglo will change and we hear one take on the country

but yet it does not lead to a greater understanding and perhaps part of that has to do with the fact that there are really important narrative is that we're not telling the outsiders. there are those that we pass on to each other within the exile community and we don't manage to pass it on. then there are stories that some halt in addition to being translated also need interpreted and those are the kind that even us as human beings whose start to follow the law of are among the first change that we exchange. where did you grow up? what school did you go to? basic information. not simply about the data of

the location and population of the country but the fundamental emotion that her fundamentally vince in for those writers like me that live in that overlapping space between the two, i to figure the amount. >> we should not wait for a book of which three about the murders? [laughter] there is an idea. i hope when you read it you find some passages are pretty politic -- poetic. thank you so much for coming

[applause] >> doctor, you have written a few blocks on archaeology why it is important for people to learn history three archaeology? >> it says history is written and we read about major battles comment generals, military campaigns , history talks about those who won it, the famous and archaeology on the other hand, talks about ordinary people.

the remains of soldiers on average-- and forced into military encampments, it is the bias of real people that archaeology gets that. where history has traditionally been byron -- biased but to the archaeologist everybody is important to buy dig up the military camp i'd take up the activities the activities people were doing 360 days out of the year, not what they did one or two days they were 418. archaeologists love to say it is everybody's story that we try to tell. >> you talk about multiple kinds of archaeology how do you transition to military? >> originally trained in central mexico it is exciting but gradually i started to look at the historical sites in america

like factories many years ago somewhere along the way the national park service announced if i would look at the saratoga battlefield i never looked at military sites before but i did know that's when you dig up early america, people in general aren't drawn into certain types of things and others say might not find quite as exciting. 1985 my first parted digging battlefield and saw everybody is fascinated by early military history and not just the rising facts or strategy's but people want to go and stand where the soldiers stood for the battle was going on in and to see and touch the things

of the past. a bayonet, part of a musket, people who want too physically connect with reese's of past wars or battles many more people signed up to do with me. magazines started to request articles, television and wanted to do programs and books. everybody wanted a book but i never realized that level of interest exists here in america for the old military campaigns and i suddenly realized i never planned to dig a 14 my wife and all the sudden people cared and wanted to visit and connect and for 25 years i dug up the remains of the

battlefields and cannons trying to find out what the soldiers' lives were like. >> there is a lot of interest in sports in battlefield and it states that sometimes to compromise the material record. what does that mean? >> i am afraid battlefields are so popular that the moment the battle was over, any time in our past, local people would descend to pick up souvenirs. and in no time at all, those moscow balls, bullets, bayonets, pi cked up and carried off. also if people lived nearby nearby, if the remains of the fort worth starting to crumble or rot, the garrison had left, local citizens would go there and grab anything they could walk off with bricks, a fireplace

come the timber to use them for their own house is. military sites are compromise all the time by people one team souvenirs and things to recycle for their own use. by the time the archaeologist arrive the fragment of was once there. >> people would not expect what you would find and what tells the story? >> i think what people expect us to find like them basketballs it is interesting. i see the students get very excited the more unexpected things are usually the personal items that a soldier had on their body. buttons, cufflinks, anything of a personal nature you

suddenly see the button that the person was wearing that and you are connecting with that soldier from the past. i think the unexpected things that we find it is the fancy things we assume everything is standard military issue but all of a sudden you find something nice and one word that comes to mind is the city of all the new york, for storage was under the dutch fort into expect another frontier , they have found a the fanciest class and bottles samples from holland the nicest things on the frontier. soldiers, those did not have

crude simple garbage. they had nice things. one team to bring nice things from home. and when it archaeologist griffeth of it did okay for themselves. >> is there a dig you were working on right now? >> no. i am doing two things right now. in the summertime i am digging fort william henry henry, it is the site of the last of the mohicans. so for anybody who has read the famous novel or have seen but most recent movie with daniel day lewis, that is the fort we are currently eight digging in the summer for adirondack community college. however is