specifically, having conducted this little contract, it certainly doesn't authorize the press subsequently to investigate your unlawful and unethical way, or intrude into your privacy? >> that's what i'm saying, yes, exactly that. i do believe in shrine in our bill of rights, you know, a person's basic -- i don't think you should give that up. >> and the 10th myth is the point -- >> yes. >> you see them glamorizing themselves, oh, well, we might be a bit naughty but, you know, we get the story. but when the story has been obtained by hacking the phone of a murdered schoolgirl or the

family of a soldier killed in afghanistan, i don't find that naughty. i find that cowardly and bullying and shocking. and most shocking is that this is been allowed to go on for so long with no one putting their hand up and saying, stop, not the police because they're intimidated. not i in peace because they're intimidated, and not a good because they have been intimidated. [inaudible] paragraph 88? >> we sort of went over them. i give you, paragraph 86 in a nutshell is included the issue be unacceptable and illegal to deprive a person of the fundamental human right to privacy, and thus there is a public role. it's not rocket science. the ways i would protect it is one, i would resist the clamor

of the privacy stealing industry to close down privacy law as it emerged through common law, through the human rights act. and i would disband the pcc and create a proper regulation, which would not only protect people from abuses of privacy or libel of the first, but it would also be there to protect in good trim, this is the other side of all this. i, for instance, and keen on libel reform. i am keen to see good journalism protected as much as i possibly can. i am the reverse of a muscle or, but i personally feel that the license that the tabloid press has had to steal british citizens privacy for the commercial profit very often

will vulnerable british citizens is a scandal, that we could government too long have allowed it to pass. >> mr. grant, is there anything else you wish to tell the inquiry? we've covered the ground. >> no. it's a strange form of interview in the sense i wish i'd been able to read my two statements out loud first, because we haven't really, it's all been the defending positions in them without anyone saying with the statement as she says. >> i think you will find the statement will be available. >> i hope you will read it. >> they will, mr. grant. further point, i would like to think what you wanted to bring out, you have brought out. if you feel the point -- >> there is one final point.

>> please bring it out spent because i'm tired, i wouldn't mind reading it since it's in my statement. it's my conclusion, i guess i don't want to see the end of popular print journalism. i would want a country that was fun into power or success but i like and about and would always want to protect the british, difficult and to take the free press is of course the cornerstone of democracy, i have no question about that. i just think that there has been a section of our press that has become, allowed to become talks is over the last 20 or 30 years. its main tactic being bullying and intimidation and blackmail. and i think that needs a lot of courage to stand up to. and i feel it is time, you know, this country has a historic we could record standing up to bullies, and i think it's time they found courage to stand up to this bully now. >> thank you very much. >> okay. >> mr. grant, thank you very much.

[inaudible] although you may have felt that you're on the back for too often, it was a way of getting the picture a cross so that everybody has had a chance through mr. jay to ask questions, but the thrust of your evidence contained in your statements is clear, and you have no need doubt that i have read it or not paid full attention to it, and will continue to pay attention to it. >> thank you very much. >> right, thank you. anything else? [inaudible] >> just the issue of anonymity if i may. >> well, let mr. grant, return to where he comes from so he can just relax for a moment. >> right.

yes? >> earlier you made a ruling on the ninth of november, and if anybody was thinking of exercising their right under section 38 to seek any review of that, time expired on wednesday. and since then, of course, there has been a draft and an inky protocol, and i think you invited any further submissions to be with you by last thursday at 5:00. we certainly put in the submissions. i was just raising the matter to see if you wish to confirm the protocol, at anything during the course before -- >> i am happy to do that. i think that essentially the points, many of the points we made eye take on board. i'm happy to clarify some things, if they need clarifying. i'm not entirely sure they do. but i would be surprised if

anything in the protocol could impact on the fundamental decisions i made in my ruling. but if there's anything that needs to be done tomorrow, i'll do it. i think there are two slightly separate issues. there's that anonymity that i've granted to one of mr. hsu barnes clients who i know is h. j. k. and there is some knock on consequences about how we're going to do with his evidence in the absence of anybody saying anything to the contrary. i propose to maintain that anonymity, and to allow him to give evidence in a way that ensures it. that will require taking certain measures, for example, he is likely to give evidence in a

cleared inquiry come obviously the participant of lawyers we present. but otherwise nobody. i'm likely not to have a running transcript to publish a transcript as soon thereafter as possible in case something emerges that needs to be redacted. in that way i have, his evidence will be put in the public domain with any form that doesn't damage the anonymity have sought and which i found to be justifiable picking anybody has any comment about that, i appreciate you have only recently seen the suggestions in that regard i'd be very, very interested to hear them. as regards other people, i'll make sure that i've got the final protocol for you to look at tomorrow. but as i say, i don't think it should really make a difference

to whether or not there is an issue that is worthy of ventilation in the divisional court, which, of course, is your decision entirely. >> a couple of points. first, we just received submissions from the metropolitan police relationship the anonymity protocol. just this afternoon, so those will have to be considered. >> now i'm about to come out. i will say the reason there hasn't been won is because it was only up to the end of literally the end of friday that i saw the last one but i wasn't sure what got them all. indeed, now you heard i haven't gotten them all and i did want to for everything and tell actually heard from everybody. so that's, isa limit on defense, which i was going to say anything about. anything else, mr. jay? >> in relation to h. j. k., one

issue, whether when he gives his evidence he will not give evidence in relation to any named newspaper. in other words, that will be redacted out. >> yes. i've made it clear, i think if nonot in a ruling, and i in argument that in relation to any anonymous witness, in order to protect the position of any of the media, it would be quite wrong to allow names or titles to be identified. i'm not going to make decisions about names and titles, everybody knows i'm looking cost of an practices and ethics across the piece, which is why my questions to mr. grant were of general rather than specific topics. and i would adopt the same

process for hjk. so that's a matter of anybody of concern to anybody, then they should say so. thank you. well, thank you very much in the. i repeat my thanks. i will do all the witnesses, particularly those who have come as all have today voluntarily. and thank you very much. >> all rise.

>> they also charge students differing amounts for the same degree. government figures show that over their lifetime, graduates earn on average over 100,000 pounds more than those without degrees. they therefore pay much more

tax, and as result repay the cost of their higher education. our current system leads to a postcode lottery. the nyc glasgow paid nothing for degree at scotland, but the nypd pays 27,000 pounds for exactly the same degree. the nypd pays just over a total of 9000 pounds, whilst the nypd pays a total of 9000 pounds only if they choose in northern ireland. we are all part of our united kingdom but if your english it's going to cost you. [laughter] [applause] >> this isn't fair and it is an equal so, what do we do about

this problem? we must make a university degree truly kind. there are far too many people studying degrees that can't prevail, and we wonder why graduate unemployment is rising. we must reduce the number of university places whilst increasing opportunity out of vocational colleges. if we did this, a degree would truly return to being a mark of excellence. this change would make the tuition fees and a graduate tax irrelevant. all the nyp's should oppose this motion. i ask you to vote against the campaign. a graduate tax is not the way forward. that is why i am opposing it. we should be campaigning for our mps to take responsibility for their actions. they never paid for their degrees but they expect us to pay for ours.

my generation, our generation, didn't cause economic mess we are in. i suggest that each mp put their money where their mouth is and pay for the degrees they've already got. [cheers and applause] >> is in peace want to vote for a graduate tax, we will work what they owe and they can pay it back. [laughter] so, ed miliband, you may win tonight, but your party betrayed generations of students. you introduced tuition fees. david cameron, i suppose paying for education is nothing new to you. [laughter] [applause]

>> was 27,000 pounds compared to -- [inaudible] and then there is nick clegg. [laughter] you are elected promising to scrap tuition fees. that went well, didn't it? [laughter] [applause] so that 27,000 pounds from ed, dave and nick, they can all afford it. i urge you to vote against the campaign. let's make mps pay for their degrees. thank you. [applause]

>> i can only as only assume whx stands for parliament it will be as the leader of the newly formed hustonites party. thank you very much for the. can we have a voice from scotland on this matter? how about a young woman here? >> thank you, mr. speaker. as a scottish, -- [inaudible] tuition fees are considerable part of were high, as i'm sure you and many people we met will apply. i believe therefore that any repayment as a matter that should be fully investigated. a graduate tax would not only alleviate the stress on students creating a -- [inaudible]

also create a more accurate network of universities for all students. no longer deterring them from -- the longer deterring them from high aim academia and creating scientific opportunities that we as youth parliament represent. [applause] >> what about the young man here? >> brian finley. thank you, mr. speaker. education, education, education. the words occupied by tony blair. no tuition fee. by nick clegg were in his constituency. these politicians was a universal right to young people. yet in my lifetime i see increased to 3000 pounds and then into 9000 pounds to someone who's four months younger than me has to get -- [inaudible]

the situation we are in at the moment is a bad situation. we can't afford to be in that. yet when i come out of university, i'm going to be 27,000 pounds worse. great. great. it will pay less per month but i'm not going to have to pay as much from what i did the 3000 have to guess i still have to pay 27,000 pounds, but my own money for an education which any westernized politician would say we have the right to for free. it doesn't make any sense. granted the politicians didn't have to pay to their university the. we shouldn't have to, either. that's my point. [applause] >> thank you. this young man and a third row back here, please. >> i actually lived 10 miles from the welsh border so i'm

aware of the differences between the nation. and on the conflict i think it's atrocious that certain scottish democrat mps are allowed to vote in favor of a tuition fee rise in england. [inaudible] i am completely against the recent rise in fees. one of the things my constituents talked about most this year, along with public transport. and very bright people up and put -- [inaudible] because of the massive debt they will incur. however, i believe a graduate tax is not solution, and would cause far more problems than the current system. i've got a lot of pleasure but i'll just give you a few. [laughter] taxi new students. all students in any country in the union must be treated in an equal way to those who any of the country. this means if any english student -- [inaudible] there are with the same fees.

not many schools of england teaches national plan which is a few those countries were as all these countries teach english, there are many more systems, many more students coming to england, britain, then going to other countries. with the current system there is debt that has to be repaid. although it is more difficult to get back when the student leaves the u.k., it is possible. as there is no e.u. wide tax system it would be impossible to collect the graduate tax from the e.u. nationals when the return to their own country without breaching e.u. law. this also applies to e.u. expects. if i graduate and move abroad how does the government prepare taxing me. i essentially got my degree for free. this would encourage the people in the highest paid salaries to move abroad so they could avoid this tax. also, dropouts but if i didn't complete my degree do i get a graduate tax?

this acts as a disincentive someone who's on track to receive aid for your degree instead of getting a low mark they could drop out a few weeks before the finish. they haven't got a degree so they never pay a graduate tax. finally this will not abolish debt. students still need to pay for a accommodation, textbooks, food, and transport. so we will still graduate with a debt which needs to be paid off alongside our graduate tax. it has all the benefits of a graduate tax without these major flaws. although i don't agree with the recent rise in tuition fees i would strongly urge my fellow colleagues to vote against this ridiculous proposal as new benefit students and the risk of serious financial implications for our universities in the future. there are much better options we can consider instead of a graduate tax. [applause] >> what about the young woman in

the back row with the yellow top and black jacket around it? yes, indeed. yes, indeed, you. yes. you have arrived. >> well, i'm rebekah, mr. carter brought up the point about the graduate tax would get rated debt. we are throwing around the word that like there are different kinds of debt. there's healthy debt and unhealthy debt. gathering and spending thousands and thousands of pounds is unhealthy debt. that is not going -- [inaudible] but if you make the calculation that university is going to be and you can get the job you want, the salary you want, then surely that's the calculation you should make and you should invest in that and you should think okay, i'm going to have to pay that slowly. would have to have rates,

24,000 pounds now, that you pay it back. you pay that less a month. so shouldn't you like look at that, i'm going to earn more? this is invest in my future. [applause] what about the woman in the third row here? thank you. >> i represent dublin. along with the speaker before me, it has been proven that going to university and getting a degree, as 12,000 pounds to university. as you think about, that's already more than one of you use a degree degree paid off instantly. and as well as the man before me, if you think what happened to the graduate tax, that only covers your tuition fees. [inaudible] i do not propose you vote against it, but i do propose we should change it and make it

new. they should just is no tuition fees that they should say no to university costs and russia taxes and for all the costs. [applause] >> thank you. the gentleman from northern ireland. >> i would like to reiterate my colleague, alex huston sport i believe education in the third level university should be cut but it should be seen for the hard-working, diligent only should be pumped into vocational courses for the long drawn out war. [inaudible] the pen is mired in a sort and education is a silver bullet that offers opportunity for all of us. [applause] >> thank you very much. what about the young woman in the front row here. to get one thing straight, the graduate tax is proposed,

essentially an exercise in ripon going at the end of the day is not -- [inaudible] cable and other programs, many are paying dress-up with the these will all be subjected to in september 2012 of course. table himself admitted we already pay a form of graduate tax. [inaudible] an example, university educated nurse with a 36,871 pounds if the government implements the 5p tax on earnings over five years become the criticism they would've paid in the reason of 1,010,000 pounds. isn't safe to say this it the demise of exactly what no other country in the world runs the system? please oppose this system. thank you. [applause] >> what about the young man, yes, in the road second two back, please. >> like many here i was aghast

wondered about increase in fees and a strongly opposed. i think it was passed in the chamber. however, now that is the case and i will be paying pcs i have looked at more closely and i've realize if i end up coming out university and earned a very realistic salary, 30,000 pounds, i will be paying just over 60 pounds a month. this is very important for people as it is possible to live on the toilet thousand pounds threshold alone. so anymore that you paint on top of that is a price worth paying for the degree you get. the cost of university is in tuition fees. these are all paid up front. this is not what stops anyone from going to university. what people need to look at is to associate with living and because associate with the associated of textbooks. that is not what this debate is

about. if we were to switch to graduate tax, all it would do is increase costs for a country that doesn't franklin of any money at the moment anyway. the cost of administration isn't worth the benefits of a graduate tax which is what i think we should oppose this motion. [applause] >> spend a moment ago wales was referred to in passing and, therefore, if we do have a from wales, that would be great. the young woman here with a black care. thank you. >> i think we should have to oppose this. for start, education is needed to do everything you want to do but if you want to make -- [inaudible]

[inaudible] people need education to sort these things out. he said there's not much to pay at the end of but if you're making of a small salad. you're not going to pay anyway because it only have to pay -- [inaudible] [applause] >> thank you for that. just beyond you, sir. just be on you there's a young man there who i think wishes to contribute. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. if i may say, i remember being a young child and hearing tony blair make the speech, we want you to achieve your best, we want you to achieve things and want you to go with low tax to pay.

[inaudible] what has happened? a young person is now going into universities and paying tax up coming away more in debt. what we are doing, we are destroying, expressing young people's future. we have to be honest. the only one who can afford is are the rich people. if i may just one more thing, a lot of people, -- [inaudible] they come to england. they don't have to pay the 9000 pounds. however, if you are from england and you are a young person, you have to pay the 9000 pounds directly. and even though this line by the government, i think this loan isn't the right thing, reason being because even though, say a person -- they will still be paying back that loan by the time they're in their late '50s. this government has to show city

considers motion and put someone else forward. [inaudible] david cameron, i urge you, think about young people. think about people in both parties and think about people that do not have as much money as yourself. and for young people first. that's why i'm here today as an nyp to support young people. [applause] >> thank you for the very fluid and impassioned speech. i would like you're somebody from yorkshire. what about the guy just -- you who are busy looking around the it was you in the red tie i had in mind. >> i am the nyp from yorkshire.

on the radio on the way down this morning, 25% young people like unemployment or train. this is really scary because that means one in every four people i say to my constituency will not have opportunity to fulfill their potential in the year to a declaration of human rights, higher education should be accessible for all on ability, not ability to pay. [inaudible] it isn't based on ability. it is based on the ability to pay. and this is wrong. when i speak to young people they say the debt, they say having that debt, they see their parents at home struggling scripting and saving having to get loans to pay the bills and put food on the table, and they

see the stress that their parents are having, and they which is thing, i don't want that, i don't want that, i don't want that stress. i want the best in life. so i will not go to university and i won't be cheap my potential. that is doing this country a disservice. 12% less people in this country in education this year. that means there will be 12% and less doctors, lawyers, teachers, people from cambridge that will be educated. and the number of people going from poor areas is very low and is seriously needing to be improved. and this country, i think it would be a great way to encourage more people to go to cambridge. [applause] >> thank you very much.

can i have to speak an nyp from the northwest? the northwest but what about the young woman right here in the very back row, yes, you looking around. >> i am from the northwest. i want to address tuition fees with degradation. degradation from the -- is further divided. to graduate tax is will have to stress after the decrease. so why not do things like -- increasing scholarships. what people allowed to enter university and higher education. that was my point. [applause] >> thank you. i'd like to someone from the east midlands in the debate. yes, what about the young woman right in the background with a black jacket? thank you. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i am hailey hull and i'm from the east midlands. i believe that university should

be seen as an investment. everyone has the opportunity to go to university. and once you get a degree you will be earning extremely more money because of her degree. and you will be able to pay off your feet. i'm sure the u.k. taxpayer would agree that we already pay enough tax. would anyone want to be paying any more tax after degree that they should be sitting investing in? if you can't get the job at your degree, then maybe you shouldn't be getting a degree in the first place. maybe you should be going into vocational education that will help you more with your future. i don't think that graduate tax is the right way forward. we need to stick with the current system and improved and educate our young people more so they know what opportunities they have to get the best out there of the education that

anyone can go to university, if they have the ability. anyone can pay off their fee after the degree if they get the job. thank you. [applause] >> we are pleased to be joined by stephen gilbert, liberal democrat member of parliament. i'm glad i got that right. and by very improperly tied opperman, conservative member of parliament from the hexham in the northeast of england. that is very fitting, guy, because we need here from a young person at nyp from the northeast. who have we got? yes, the young man at the back. >> thank you, mr. speaker. cameron brown. i would just like to raise an issue with the gentleman from the yorkshire. he said will have to -- the last thing we want is another independent body.

the last thing i want distance to graduate from university is another tax. having national interest, having pension contribution taken from. the last thing i want is another graduate tax. because the problem is that's effectively what the graduate tax is to it is a tax on jobs. it is punishment for the fact that i was lucky enough have an education to get a job. i think that is completely -- on the fact that i have a job. thank you. [applause] >> i'm very sorry but time is against us, and we do have other debate. so we do not need to wind up this debate. and to conclude it i called ms. bobby simmons. [applause] >> thank you, mr. speaker. hello. to start, i've got something for you all to think about. under the current thesis of a student chooses the student

helping to cover the cost, as many days when they graduate they will pay 9% of their earnings wednesday reaches out of 21,000 pounds. now, if you're paying a percentage of your earnings as a contribution towards the server should use, and hopefully benefit from, isn't that quite a bit like a tax? thinking about it this way, the two systems are remarkably similar. the only difference is, the threshold. that is the amount you pay back will be different. we know we need to pay something towards the cost of our universe education, but which is a better way to contribute? we've got from one extreme to the other over the years, going from paying nothing to possibly paying up to 9000 pounds on what we as the u.k. parliament has to question now is whether a graduate tax is the right next that.

well, it could be especially it acts as a valid to university and, therefore, having a graduate tax system could potentially open up the possibility of going to those who never even dreamed about it, money would. also, it was discovered by the national union of students, a graduate earning 30,000 pounds be 30 pounds better off each month. however, this could also be a step backwards. due to the fact that undergraduate tax system there is no set, meaning to people on the same course could end up being hugely different amounts for it. something that many would question the fairness of, especially alex as he showed us earlier. the truth is that people fear death by the equally loath attacks. three things that people complain about most. it is tax, debt and the weather, especially on a day like this.

when speaking to psychos like how do you count less, many members gave excellent reasons when we should have a tuition fee or a graduate tax system. and what i realized is that there's no clear-cut answer to this. your job now as the u.k. department and young people is to vote on what you think is right. you have heard brilliant cases for and against this debate. and ultimately it's up to you. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you for that. we move now, always, to the consideration of the third motion of the day. and, of course, the last of the morning session relating to bullying as printed on the order papers. and move the motion i called mr. david krone.

[applause] >> hostility is not inherited. antagonism is not genetic. the tendency to torment and the inclination to intimidate are not ingrained, but are a learned behavior. the poisonous source of all intolerance, prejudice and discrimination, is ignorance, preconception, and divergence. to tackle bullying when it is rapidly flourishing and in full bloom should be nothing more than a final resort in the face of adversity. to cause this to rob ford has effected is a true victory in the name of equality. to simply punish a bullet for targeting a gay person might relieve that instance of

suffering, but will not challenge that deep root of homophobia. december disciplined and individual for attacking a person based on their race might remedy that particular problem, but will not eradicate their risk. too stupid penalize them for mocking a person with a disability might close that chapter of ridicule, it won't solve that ignorance of the condition. equality can only be attained through education. equality can only be secured when schools foster a culture which is characterized by respect. when the extended curriculum includes young people to embrace the characteristics that make them each unique, yet value the feature that binds them all together, humanity. suspension from school is a short-term plaster that cannot fully cover the deep wound of

misunderstanding and ignorance. effective rehabilitation, reformation and education is what we need. despite recent work that still remains variation in the intensity of the problems in school to school, and policies are often drafted blindly without the full support of parents, students, charities and youth work professionals. no piece of legislation in the country has been forced without due consultation and discussion, so why should the rules of our schools be treated any differently? how can a matter of personal safety and well being of children and young people be left to chance? some may think that bullying is the perfect mask for what is actually hurtful criminality. and younger children may not realize how their words are actually the origin of a punishable crime.

to verbally attack or physically assaulted person on which it is unacceptable and warrants consequence. so why should the fact it is taking place in schools make it any less severe? we would outcry if the police failed, so why do we overlook the issues in the classroom? it is unacceptable to be credulous in public, so why should they be permitted in private? research has shown that six in 10 male bullies age between 10-14 would commit at least one crime by the age of 24. put simply, if we do not immediately highlight and tackle the issue, they risk falling into an embraceable and ongoing cycle of illegality and immorality. there appears to be a wall of separation between was some schools defined as bullying and what others decide is not. despite research that suggests

homophobia is an issue three times as prevalent as racism in our schools,. [inaudible] in almost half of all incidenc incidences. near silence is an unspoken acceptance and intolerance. and to ignore the issue will only allow it to balloon and to intensify. in more than 6% of the cases, the students said nothing was done. and until every potential instance is recognized and prevented, and every transpired incident is challenged and questioned, we cannot begin to strive to save the changes for young people. until every child can rely on every staff member to tackle every situation with conviction, confidence and concern, we cannot claim to take the zero-tolerance approach to bullying. the current situation is reliant on independent charities, is a

growing number of teenage suicide with dwindling self-confident and increasing self-loathing. young people are being failed by policies we have now. 170,000 young people, every single day, to and from school because they're being bullied. we can discuss tuition fees, transport and energy with the foundations of it all is primary and secondary education. and if we want those 170,000 young people in school on monday, the first that is to make this issue our priority. thank you. [applause] >> david, thank you for that terrific and uncompromising start to this important debate. just before i called the opposer of the motion, i note in passing that we have now been joined by the liberal democrat member of parliament for shetland, the

liberal democrat, mr. alastair carmichael. show your self. [applause] spent thank you. to oppose the motion i called mr. xavier cohen. [applause] >> thank you, mr. speaker. bullying has and always will be a very serious issue. yet this is something that government and society as a whole are all very aware of the. schools in scotland are strongly recommended to have anti-bullying policy. whilst every single school in england, wales, and northern ireland is required by law to have a policy against bolding. members of youth parliament, this issue is being addressed.

this campaign proposes that u.k. passionate she chanted anti-bullying policy. superficially, improving anti-bullying policies seems like a good move. but is the way that we deal with bullying the problem? we are compassionate creatures. we naturally feel for the victim and punish the bully accordingly. but i ask you, members of youth parliament, a campaign on zero tolerance towards bullying, it makes one half assumption. that victims will overcome the often terrifying obstacle of telling someone about their suffering. research shows that 30%, at just

10-14 euros 11 subject to bullying, did not tell anyone that they have been bullied. these are the most vulnerable children that must be held. not cases that scored re deeply. the motion is this. this by the floor of this motion re: outline, whether or not a teacher ask upon an individual incident of bullying, that a witness, or even if they implement the written down policy, it is not something that the number of youth parliament and tackle. u.k. y. p. in its youthful passion has too often suffered from naïve ambition and not delivered results on its main campaign. my friends, it's time that we tackled an issue that we can fix. we must fight the root cause of bullying, not the recurring

symptoms. the root cause of this issue is sadly far too deeply ingrained in society for u.k. y. p. to make any impact. surely this issue lies in the way we are educated, more than that, the way we can go through our lives being a part of society, encouraged to compete with one another in schools. wherefores the dangers social hierarchy that we all seek to climb to the degree intentionally and systematically harming another human being seems acceptable. the problem is bullying, not how we deal with it. members of youth parliament, we must focus on campaign where we could all bring about real

change. do not let this unachievable motion passed. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. as always, we had to ask of speech but i'm going to appeal for extreme brevity in speeches if we can deliver that, and will be able to get a reasonable number of people in the i'm looking in the first place for somebody from the west midlands. somebody from west midlands. yes, young man here. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. i believe one of the main causes is not the main cause of bullying is ignorance. i think that certain types of bullying sets the fact that so many young people do not understand or accept other peoples beliefs or background or i am lucky enough to have grown up in a more cultural area brought had the privilege to learn about other people's cultures. not all young people have this opportunity. therefore, i believe it should

be more in education system to encourage young people to respect and learn from each of the differences. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you. the young woman in the second row. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i ask you to think about your own education. i'm sure everyone initiative and think of someone who has experience of bullying. if that is the case then certainly the government -- young people have to go to school and they shouldn't be penalized and punished when they are at school. we should stand for the young people, because we can make a difference for young people who can't face bullies. thank you. [applause] >> what about the woman here in the second row with a long blond hair? >> imed emily carter from the southwest. what we are, we are u.k. y.p.,

and we are the voices of young people who surely we should have this as a main campaign, as we want to tackle it and we want to help because we want to help all of the youth. we want to help the young people, society could ever want to make things better, not just things like transports, we want to help you find a more enjoyable life. and certainly going to university, but surely we need to help people before they get there, when they're in a situation which they can't do with an surely we need to make that more accountable for them so they can go forward in their life positive, with a positive future. [applause] >> time for another speaker from london. okay. let's have a young man in the second row. >> thank you very much,

mr. speaker. [inaudible] we attacked a link using a three-pronged approach. [inaudible] we also, simply plead poor attendance, black achievement, divisions within school communities. more needs to be done by all parties. to ensure the bullying stamped out at the lowest levels. primary, that's what really begins. [inaudible] the amount of bullying i saw was incredible. it snowballed, it escalates. [inaudible] this was announced in july 2011, but perfection were a child

regard as a background, belief or sexual orientation,. [inaudible] it is in our children's interest. they will be the beneficiaries if it is tackled efficiently. will have a safer and happier tomorrow. the student body for generations to come will be safer and happier. [applause] >> how about a voice from scotland? is there a voice from scotland? nobody from scotland wanting to contribute. yes, you are, indeed. we would like to hear from you. thank you. >> what i do think it's a fantastic topic, i'm worried about the issue because local

authorities create, they create their own policies. [inaudible] while it would be a great thing to see, i don't think it would be possible for ukyp to do. i think would be better to spend our time elsewhere, thank you. >> how about the northeast of england. anybody from the northeast? yes, what about the young woman with a rather bright blue -- i think it is bright blue, outfit. >> thank you, mr. speaker. he said the u.k. youth parliament cannot make a difference. well, to me, doesn't not mean we should not try? if that issue than it it proves to be how much bullying is in our society. thank you.

[applause] >> what about east midlands? the one with the red top. >> i'd like to address specific issue within bullying which is lesbian gay transsexual gay bullying. is one of the most prevalent billings in our school. we heard earlier that lg tgv, 70% received death threats which is unacceptable in society like ours. that information was stonewalled with charity. america's many national campaigns, and we need a national young people's supported campaign that we can, that we can, which we can support. we should be trying to help

these young people survived through their times in schools. there have been so many cases of youth suicide because of lgbt matters and it cannot continue. thank you. [applause] >> anybody from northern ireland? what about -- you, thank you. >> this year the number of -- increase by 300% since last year. among these polls, many experience of bullying. ..

>> thank you, mr. speaker. i think that bullying needs to be stamped out. it effects people's performances, and we need to have the right way to get rid of this bullying. we're all special, we've all got different talents, the world would be boring if we were all the same. furthermore, i believe exclusion is the wrong way to get through it because it's not working. however, i think it this is one opportunity that we can use the media successfully. we've got spokespeople in it for the wrong reasons sometimes, and they can remark, you know, which could be bullying. bring back our idols, our parents and schools and say get rid of this bullying. we should be doing this, we should be in unison and

altogether. bring back the bullying response and permanently get rid of it. thank you. [applause] >> somebody from the northwest. yeah. the young woman -- i'm sorry to point, but i have to. the woman looking around, yes, waving your hands now very symbolically, we're grateful to you. >> my name's anna kellogg. sorry. the saw it'sic in u.k. youth parliament -- [inaudible] obviously, any thought of bullying could leave a young person spiraling into depression and their school grades may drop significantly and also their attendance. the problem with cyberbullying, it's difficult for students to come forward. how are teachers supposed to

figure out who's bullying a particular student behind a computer screen? it would take concerted efforts by parents and police. as a result -- [inaudible] they can argue that it would fall under additional duties such as compiling paperwork and reports. they could contend that taking care of bullying instances creates an undue burden on them due to lack of time and resources available. so once again we need to think can we actually do any more to tackle bullying? thank you. [applause] >> thank you. we have been joined, i don't see him now, but he was here a moment ago, by the labour member steven -- [inaudible] stephen, thank you for coming, we may see him again in a few minutes. i do need to have a speaker from wales. yes, the woman right at the back who was just holding her hand up. yes, indeed. thank youment. >> i'm jessica --

[inaudible] from wales. i believe there are two types of bullying, one is physical harm which everyone can see and indirect bullying can be a small remark in the corridor or source exclusion which is off the one which is hard for people to speak out to which immensely harms people the most. bullying should be a national campaign, so i support this motion. [applause] >> and who have we got here from the east of england? yeah. the guy with the black jacket, velvet jacket. >> i'm jacob, and today bullying is regarded as something when -- [inaudible] bullying is just overrated, to be honest. and i think that we need to change what we define as bullying because too much counts as bullying. yes, there is a problem with

bullying, but i think that comes down to presential control over their -- parental control over children and parents not doing enough to discipline their children. [applause] >> i'm sorry that we have run off out of time, we have managed to accommodate each region in each of the three debates with the exception of the first debate. i wanted someone from northern ireland. i know it's never enough, but i'm afraid that's life, and to conclude the debate i now call mr. robert middleton. [cheers and applause] >> thank you, mr. speaker. bullying is a terrible practice that should never be tolerated. that is something which i think everyone in this room and, indeed, in this country can agree with. but what we are looking at today

is the way we deal with bullying. this motion proposes greater consultation between pupils, teachers and professionals, and it suggests that there should be an increase in the amount of training and support available. during the last 30 minutes, we have heard some interesting, inspirational and very passionate views about this most controversial of topics today. but the key aspect you must consider when you cast your vote is whether you think we are doing enough already to tackle this issue. and if you consider it to be the most crucial problem facing young people who have put this here today. bullying is certainly a persistent and widespread issue, and it has great consequences on the individual. statistics collectinged by the nspcc show that one-third of

young people experienced bullying or discrimination during their childhood. that's about six rows of people in this chamber. enough people to fill two whole double-decker buses. is that enough people for you to consider in the most prominent issue facing young people today? but as we have heard, there are also many reasons why this motion should not be selected as the ukyp's top priority. there are a number of anti-bullying laws already in place to confront this issue throughout the u.k. in if england, wales and northern ireland schools are now required by law to have an anti-bullying policy. bearing that in mind, is it still necessary for us to make this our number one campaign? another issue signing this topic is that bullying legislation is extremely difficult to generalize across the whole country as each region or nation will have its own specific

problems and solutions to dealing with bullying. surely, would it not then be foolish to create one rule for the whole of the u.k. as we are proposing? another problem is that the face of bullying has changed greatly over the last couple of years with the development of a new age of bullying in the form of cyber intimidation. when you cast your votes today, you must ask yourself, will this proposed motion deal with the prevention of cyberbullying as well? your decision today could have enormous consequences. your vote could change a thousand lives, or it could just change one life. either way, you can make a real difference. so, please, weigh out both sides of the argument and come to a conclusion. should we have a zero tolerance approach towards bullying in schools? thank you. [applause]

>> thank you, robert. that concludes the morning session of our sitting. the youth parliament will now adjourn until 1:30 p.m., and we do need, we're being broadcast, to return in time for 1:30 p.m. start. and i invite you all to return to westminster hall for lunch. order, order. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> speaker! >> please, be seated. have you enjoyed your lunch? order, order. youth parliament will consider the forty motion of -- fourth motion of the day relating to child poverty as printed on the order paper. to move the measure, i call mr. neil -- [inaudible] [cheers and applause] >> thank you, mr. speaker. i'd like to start off by thanking you for in the tremendous opportunity for us to speak at what is known as the motherland of all democracies. at the age of 5 in 1997, i saw a dream to speak from this very box, and never in my wildest dreams did i ever think it'd come true so fast. i'd also like to thank my

constituents, being this is my last time speaking in the parliament, it'd take my whole allocated speech time. especially my region of east midland and especially my mother and young sister who have always supported me, the the deputy city mayor for his kind message yesterday morning, and my local mp, mr. john asher. also my mentor, mr. john -- [inaudible] and tina barton who has worked with many people in the raising their as rations, and -- as praises, and also mr. james casper who i like very dearly. [cheers and applause] and, mr. speaker, i mention this today because i think it sits very well with what i am here to debate about. child poverty is one of the biggest issues in our country,

yet it goes unnoticed. with over a third of our young people, our children -- that is equivalent to nearly four million children -- live anything poverty. this is atrocious. we are doing a disservice to our future, our children, our young people, and it is time we make sure britain's future is bright. so if you believe in a brighter future for britain, if you value a brighter future for britain, you should vote for this motion. life expectancy is also one of the biggest issues with child poverty, it plays a crucial fact factor. when we look at recent statistics, a child born in kensington chelsea has the highest life expectancy as compared to glasgow which has the lowest life expectancy in any comparable develop canned nation. so if you believe in britain, and i do, you must belief in a britain for all our people, not just the privileged few at the top of society. so if you believe in better life chances for our people, you

should vote for it. and look what we've already achieved in some of our local authorities. in lester, the deputy assistant mayor has set up a commission consisting of counselors, academics to set realistic targets and tackle these issues by 2014 before the end of their term in office. it is something which every local authority in britain can adapt or replicate for their young people. and when you look at the county in lestershire, young people -- [inaudible] which had its findings incorporated into councils, family poverty strategy. this is what we can do. this is what each local authority across britain can do to tackle this. and aspiration in education, the chances are if you're born in a deprived area in a deprived family, you may not get a high education due to lack of resources, and it's a waste of

talent. so when the former prime minister tonily blair said his three priorities for britain were education, education, education, i tell you today our three main priorities for young people is aspiration, aspiration, aspiration. and, mr. speaker, aspiration is a big word, but what does it really mean? it's the hope and ambition that you're able to achieve regardless of your background, the belief that everyone has an equal chance in life. when we look at youth and employment which is at its highest rate, in northern ireland 50% of young momentums are living in poverty. this must change if we want a better future for britain. my fellow students today is running a successful company to tackle youth and employment. if you value britain's three

biggest priorities, you should vote for it today. social motion is also suffering from this. apart from a few individuals who have gone on to achieve fantastic things, it is very hard for young people born and raised into poverty to progress on to high jobs in the private sector. if you believe in social mobility, you should vote for this. and you may say why choose child poverty over environment or bullying? you choose it because this is the foundation for all these topics. you choose this because yet another generation are entering a cycle of poverty, a very vicious cycle. unemployment and lack of opportunity is what waits for them at the end of the cycle. you choose this because the people in power can do and should do more to help end child poverty. and ukyp is a powerhouse of aspiration. it's inspired me to run for the

elected mayor of lester at age of 18, and i believe if i can do it, every single up with of you can do it too. looking at child poverty rates in britain reminds me of a film, "back to the future." it starred a character called marty mcfly who was trap inside the 1950s. let's not leave our children, our constituents and our young people back in the past. let's make this change today. economic stability for our hard working families must be the basis of a more flexible and progressive future for britain. it is our values as a country, as a youth parliament and our instincts as siblings, neighbors and representatives that makes us insist that no child in our country should be left behind. so when politicians talk about the promise of britain, this is the promise of britain. when they say change we can belief in, this is a change we can believe in. when they say let's build a fairer britain for all, these are the first steps toward

building it. this is the foundation for a fairer britain. i can see some faces around here thinking, he's using slogans from all three major parties. these are the promises of all three parties at westminster, so if you believe, you should vote for this today. and i'm an optimist. i believe in the power of politics to change things. so with all the cynicism, you can come to a place like this and reflect how much things have change inside your cities. has it changed because of a political decision in your local authority? it hadn't changed before you were in office, so i think today is a day to be proud of the achievements we have done in if every single -- [inaudible] [cheers and applause] a mandate for -- [inaudible] [laughter] that is all i ask. use the youth parliament, fourth of november, 2011. [applause]

every single child, every young person living in your constituency is calling out to you today asking you if you hear their concerns, asking you if you'll help them achieve a better future. we must seek solutions that benefit the many and not just the few. [applause] >>mu-hamid, that's a splendid speech which i think you are about to conclude -- [laughter] >> this is a fight we have to win. there is a choice between poverty whether you end it or you ignore it, and it starts with a political opinion. it's a choice of futures, and i tell you this: never, ever let child poverty back to do the damage it has done to our society over the years. so tomorrow when you go home, you can look up to another five or so years with this issue being brushed under the carpet with millions of lives ending in poverty, or you can elect a

campaign with new hope, fresh ideas and visions for the good and better of britain, and i can see -- [applause] and i can see the expression on the speaker's face, i've gone over time. so i must end here. [laughter] but it's because i'm passionate about this issue. if we get this right, things can only get better for britain. >> thank you very much. [cheers and applause] mu-hamid, thank you very much for that speech. to oppose the motion, i call ms. jess simons. [cheers and applause] >> hello, everybody, i'm representing the children and young people of -- [inaudible] thank you, dragons. and i'm here to oppose the motion of child poverty which you may think is unjustifiable as child poverty is undoubtedly a large issue.

what is poverty? how are we meant to measure it without getting caught up in luxury keys such as ipods and phones and cars? we can look at somalia where the male life expectancy is 48 years old and only 32% of children are allowed to get a primary education. we cannot -- [inaudible] the united kingdom, a country of prosperity that gives out hundreds of millions of pounds to countries like somalia. certainly, a report done by funky dragon, the children and young people's associations for wales in 2007 found out that 65% of people in wales have never had their rights explained leaving only 8% aware and the rest unaware. although these statistics are only for wales, the high numbers represent a missing link which can only be stretched across the

united kingdom. they believe that the way young people are treated in the criminal justice system is more than an issue than poverty. [inaudible] for example, the burglary rate in yorkshire is twiet as high -- twice as high as that in england. looking at the national low-pay commission report on the national minimum wage written in april of this year, the commission displays how young people are one of the hardest hit over the age of segregation of the national minimum wage. to quote, between 1999 and 2007 average earnings of young people rose roughly in line with those of adults. since then it's become evident that the wages of young people have increased at a slower pace than those of adults. this leads to a lack of resources, lack of inspiration and essentially, poverty.

[inaudible] small and large charities from all over the u.k. that are trying to tackle this problem every single day. it is part of the millennium development goals, two of which are relevant, children's health and primary education. these goals are set to be achieved by 2010 and, clearly, these have not yet been met. the context of these goals have not been reviewed. will this change and -- [inaudible] what is important in the present day? we have global leaders, governments and so many people pouring money into child poverty, and if they can't make a difference, how can we? so i urge you to think about what is realistic when you make your choices, what is achievable in the next 12 months. think about what we can do to make a difference to the young people all over the u.k. and make way for the next generation. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. i would like to call this gentleman here. >> thank you, mr. speaker.

[inaudible] i've mentioned before we need to talk about what is poverty. is poverty a child who has no food, water or shelter? or is poverty a person, a young child who can't get an xbox or ps3? we must remember that every young person matters. and what we do is a fear campaign. ukyp can make change. we can improve and change the lives of young people, and, therefore, i believe we should -- [inaudible] and make change not only in our constituencies, in our communities, but in society. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. looking for a young person from the southeast. yes, the young woman here. >> kate lambert, southeast -- [inaudible] i do believe ending child poverty is a really big issue, but as my other two fellow

nyps mentioned, we can't do anything about it until we realize what poverty actually is. if i was to go into my school and talk to my colleagues and ask them what poverty was, they'd more than likely say famine or drought. but that's not it really. i mean, until we actually change what people per sent, we can't do anything about it because there's no way of judging what is and what isn't poverty at the minute. [applause] >> thank you. woman at the far end with -- yes, you, looking around with the pink top, i think it is. >> hi. i'm felice common from -- [inaudible] when you say poverty, you don't usually instantly think of the u.k., however, child poverty is a major issue affecting a third of all the chirp in the u.k., and i believe that the awareness we can create from this campaign we can eliminate the depression

the u.k. is facing in child poverty. many charities offer weeks away for these children to go and experience a normal life so they can see how a normal life works. and they get inspired, and they get motivated to getting out of poverty. this is what we need. we need to inspire them because they have ambitions, and some of them are so intelligent, but they just don't have the opportunities. many of them vice haven't seen s like beaches, and this is a chance we need the offer them. and we can do this with this campaign. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you. forgive me, this morning in possibly the first debate somebody stood up at the back because he thought that i was calling him. if he wants to speak now, he can. he's not obliged to if he doesn't can want to. [laughter] >> i'm jack lew wis from london -- can lewis from london.

poverty is a national disgrace. only 8% of children are in child poverty in france, and in finland in 2007 about 11% of children were in poverty. in the u.k. it's a third of children, so it really is a national issue. but i don't think we should adopt it as this year's ukyp campaign because many things are already being done. some of these things including working with young people to improve their lives, and one example of this is the holy street children and young people's partnership in hackny. in this state since '37, crime has been -- '97, crime has been increasing at a rapid rate, but since the invention of hscypp, child poverty, child crime has reduced by 30% because they've got people involved in other

initiatives. and also i come from a very active area of london, and many people are very unaware of the issues surrounding child poverty and what the definition actually is. so i think before we should adopt this as a campaign, i think people need to be educated about what exactly child poverty is and how we can tackle it. and also, more things need to be promoted such as campaigning and different types of charity should do more charity work before this should be taken on as a campaign. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. what about the young person from the east midlands? the young man at the back? >> speaker, joseph hyatt from the east midlands. as this will be my last opportunity to speak in the house, i'd like to thank a special person for without his sport and inspiration, i undoubtedly wouldn't be who i am today. the current impact of this issue is there are just under one

million young people unemployed. the society's stigmatizing young people telling them, you're all the same, you have no ambition, you're inexperienced. nonsense. young people are ready for work, and it's an opportunity. look at what organizations such as future youth have already achieved by placing this issue at the heart of the british government and demonstrating the hope and prosperity change can bring. if you believe in the future of this country, you must believe in all young people from all walks of life. we must unite and support these efforts. this is a fight we have to win for the future, and i urge each and every one of you to give your constituents the future they deserve by voting for this motion. thank you. [applause] >> anybody from northern ireland who wants to speak in this debate? northern ireland? yes. the young man here. >> thank you, mr. speaker. and darren o'reilly, north of ireland. four million young people live

in poverty in the u.k. in 1979 this figure stood out one in ten. it now stands at 3 in ten. this can no longer be ignored. the u.k. has one of the worst rates of child poverty in the industrial world. child poverty costs the exchequer 25 billion each year due to this deteriorating situation. we must look at our european neighbors for inspiration as child poverty in many member states is as low as 5%. removing child poverty will insure that we live in a just society and that equal opportunity is available for all. support this motion. thank you. [applause] >> what about a young person from the southwest? yes, i'm just going to call this young woman here. i must say, you have jumped up

with huge enthusiasm a number of times. in fact, you lifted yourself off the floor, i thought you were going to go into orbit, so we need to hear from you. [laughter] >> right. we associate poverty, i'm a member of the southwest. we associate poverty with places like africa. but really the real issue is right here in england. >> here, here. [laughter] >> we saw this problem of people not being aware of what it is. one in 20 people in the united kingdom are homeless, and i don't mean sleeping on park benches, i mean unnoticeable. they sleep on their friends' sofas and go to school the next day. we don't see it. we know that poverty leads to a lack of education which can then tumble into a life of crime and disfunction. if we tackle it now and early, we can get it before it gets completely out of happened, and we can help society. [cheers and applause] >> what about somebody from the northwest? who have we got from the

northwest standing up? yes, what about the young man here? yes, you sir. >> paul jennings. mr. speaker, we've seen 600,000 more chirp driven into poverty, but all the while we see the welfare state dismantled, parents lose 1,000 pounds in public services, we've seen 750,000 people lose their disability living allowance and 500,000 public sector workers losing their jobs. 4% of colleges -- 49% of colleges are seeing less applicants. all the while youth unemployment is skyrocketing. it's imperative that we choose this campaign because we must make sure the government is aware of the catastrophic effects of it current spending plan. by 2013 there will be 3.1 million children live anything poverty in the u.k. you cannot and must not vote for climate change over children's lives and futures.

thank you. [applause] >> what about a young person from wales? who have we got from wales? what about the young woman here in the second row? thank you. >> hi. i'm jess foster from paris in north wales. thank you, mr. speaker. i think it's disgusting that young people in such a developed country such as the u.k. are in poverty. are we really in poverty, or are we just under, like, the norm? so we need to figure out what poverty is before we tackle the issue, and i don't really think it's our issue to tackle. it's too big, and there's schemes in place already. i think we should vote for -- [inaudible] thank you. [applause] >> what about the east of

england? who have we got from the east of england? what about the young person here with the ginger hair? >> thank you, mr. speaker. i totally agree that child poverty is a big issue in the u.k. however, is it realistic for u.k. youth parliament to achieve, to end child poverty in the next 12 months? i think we need to instead help people break the circle within the poverty. we need to help them. so let's not cut this youth services because they help people in poverty. they help them got out of crime which many people turn to when they're in poverty. we need to think of other issues other than ending child poverty that will help end child poverty in the long run, that think to have realistic things. thank you very much. [applause] >> what about yorkshire and -- [inaudible] who have we got from there? what about the young man at the back in the middle of the threesome -- [laughter]

go for it, man. [laughter] >> [inaudible] from the east side of yorkshire. i don't support the motion, but i support a statement being put in our manifesto about this motion. but i wanted to say a few points on this because i really do think it's a big issue. [inaudible] has some of the most -- [inaudible] in the u.k. all of us in here have been elected to support and stand up for people like in my constituency at a national level. [inaudible] funding cuts are stopping young people having opportunities and having a good life and, like,

most of us are enjoying here now, we're having a really fantastic opportunity that hardly anybody else in the u.k. is getting. and young people are the future. so we must make the future bright, not just stuck in the darkness of poverty. thank you. [applause] >> how about the northeast of england, and then we will have covered all regions. yeah, what about the young woman there? thank you. >> nancy mccormack -- [inaudible] child poverty is, indeed, a severe issue for all of our constituents in all of our areas, and whilst we certain hi should take steps to combat the terrible lack of opportunities facing some young people all across the uncle, our national -- u.k., our national campaign should focus on realistic goals that will help all of our constituents, not a minority. all young people should benefit from the campaigns we decide on today, not just a few. we're voted in to represent every single person in our

constituencies, and if we vote for this campaign, that's something we simply will not be doing. we -- child poverty is such a broad issue, and it has so many factors, and, yes, we should stand and fight every king is l one of those -- single one of those factors. that is too big. we should decide on those factors and start in our local areas and shout and make noise until that is overcome, but not here. this is not to say say do not oppose child poverty, and we should put measures in place, but we are in danger of affecting the silent majority. other issues must take precedent. [applause] >> we have, again, heavy sub subscription. but i need to call shona morrison to conclude this debate, and then we've got one more. shona.

[applause] >> ladies, gentlemen and mr. speaker, i am with the nyp -- [inaudible] i think that it is vitally important to summarize the arguments that have been presented on the issue of child poverty before and against the motion. such a conscientious issue can be a little bit too close to home for some, and obviously, if it were possible, we would have this problem abolished instantaneously. in saying that -- [inaudible] eradicating poverty and hunger in the world is already a priority for government with it being one of the eight millennium development goals. their target of helping the proportion of people with an income of less than one dollar a day appears to be on track, albeit at a much slower rate than first anticipated. the governments truly do seem to be struggling, so how realistic is it for us to take on the task? if these representatives with so

many resources at their disposal, what can we do as a group of passionate young people with limited budgets and even more limited time? however, this is not to trivialize the issue in any way. child poverty is a very real issue for many families around the world, even here in the so-called highly developed united kingdom. of course, the above in many our own -- poverty in our own country is very different. our poverty is a growing problem, especially in these times of economic downturn which economists claim is over by telling us that a fraction of a percentage of growth was experienced in the last quarter. in real terms this means nothing to those facing financial hardship on a daily basis. end of october -- [inaudible] this population growth does not hide the horrific fact that 17,000 children die of hunger every day. with poverty increasing at such a rapid rate, more young people are born into poverty than ever

before. poverty is something of which we're all fully aware. we're constantly bombarded with headlines and shocking statistics. even -- [inaudible] is said to be heading towards poverty just like six million other families in the u.k. it's defined as -- [inaudible] 10% of their income on heating and electricity per year. in my very own constituency, one ward has 50% of its under 16 living below the poverty line which just goes to show that poverty's all around us. and so you know this, there are more pressing issues here today. i don't say this in a tactless way. i say this meaning that we have the opportunity to vote for a tangible change. ideologies are all well and good, but we have to consider how we tackle this issue in our own ways. our government is already aattempting to address the problem of poverty, but --

[inaudible] such as access to higher education, public transport and bullying. such campaigns would be much easier for us to embark on where we would be able to experience and -- [inaudible] we are able to influence governments who will be in this very chamber on monday morning. we have the power to make them address the topic of our choosing and, therefore, it's important to choose an issue that can be changed and not just an issue to which -- [inaudible] will pay lip service and then forget about completely. thank you. [applause] >> shona, thank you for that. that concludes another excellent debate. we've just been joined at the back of the chamber by nick smith, the labour member of parliament and, nick, thank you for showing your support for the youth parliament. the youth parliament will now consider the fifth and last motion of the day relating to a greener future as printed on the

order paper. to move the motion, i call mr. kyle thornton. [applause] >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. a greener country is a concept that's been talked about without real action for far too long. climate change is already affecting us. what were once once in a lifetime events have now become for our generation the norm; harsh winters, horrendous floods and hot summers. well, maybe not. [laughter] we as a youth parliament must stand up and campaign for action now. firstly, the national coordination of recycling. all people no matter where they live in the u.k. should have the same basic standard of recycling. we can recycle 40% of -- [inaudible] that saves 80 million tons of co2, the equivalent of taking five million cars off our roads.

imagine what we could do with even more recycling. it's simple and easy action. secondly, we must use more renewable energy. we've seen setbacks in this area such as the recent closure of the carbon capture and storage projects, but in scotland alone there's 25% of europe's offshore wind, 25% of the -- [inaudible] energy and 10% of its weight power. the u.k. together has a massive renewable resource with public and private investment, we can harness that natural power. but who would design and build the technology for this? young people. today we have nearly one million unemployed young people in britain. we pay out from contributions for members in some areas where one in four young people are unemployed. a greener future can mean long-term, sustainable jobs for some of those young people building the wind turbines and

solar panels and building our greener future. and thirdly and finally, we can take simple and easy actions at home. home insulation and power-saving technologies can all play their part in a greener britain. they help save money for consumers which means for young people, their families or in some cases themselves have money freed up to use how they wish. in conclusion, better recycling, providing jobs for young people by designing and building our green energy future and saving energy, saving money are all clear stamps towards a greener britain. this campaign is suited to the here and now. we simply don't have the time to waste. this government has promised to be the greenest government ever, so let's work together to build a greener future for britain. [applause] >> kyle, thank you for that very lucid exposition. to oppose the motion, i call

mr. ryan barnes. [cheers and applause] >> i'm ryan barnes, representing your point in the region of the northwest. the future's bright when the future's orange. it's not. it's bright, but it's green, and it's already got young people written all over it. a greener future is a great idea and one that is in the grasp of green campaigners. any politician will tell you things only work best when it's sustainable. sustainability is battling -- covering the well-worn tracks of others, it's tackling a problem from the bottom up, looking at the foundation of what's wrong. the only way we can be green is by being sustain bl. the very basics of a greener future is built on three things; better recycling, renewable energy, energy usage. the only way we can reach this is by working hand in hand with partners using scientific methods.

carbon offsetting is a trendy equivalent of -- [inaudible] but things boil back down to sustainability. the decomposing soil needed to grow trees, quite often emits more greenhouse gas than the trees actually absorb for the first ten years of their life. and this is just one example of rushing into a green campaign. it hasn't worked out well enough in the long run. the department of environmental and royal affairs says -- [inaudible] of domestic waste is now recycled. ten years ago that was just 11%. in the first five year years of this decade, on average annual co2 emissions per person by more than the average body weight. -- [inaudible] per person. take a second look at yourself. you're on tv, after all, and think about the fact that more

in your weight of green haas gas that's killing the environment has already reduced -- [inaudible] proof, putting paper, plastic and glass in their own little boxes works. we are already winning. recycling's great, but if we get energy right, we can tackle climate change. sleep soundly, safe at night in the knowledge that our quality -- [inaudible] renewal bl energy is a wonderful, wonderful idea, but the flaws are so prominent, we can't ignore them and keep our fingers crossed. great britain has the windiest coast in europe -- [inaudible] empty our pockets far sooner than all this. the inconvenient truth is there is no magic answer to a greener future. wind farms offer a quick solution for cheap energy. that's not the case. as renewable, you can't really admit turbines don't spin unless the wind is moving at more than 10 miles an hour, and they need three times that for maximum

output. how is that efficiency? wind farms take longer to pay for themselves than coal -- [inaudible] at the moment the only real option we have provides 30 percent of tiny output when energy usage is already going through the roof. a greener future and a future with climate change is literally a universeally important principle, that's why so many decisions are being made already. the very things we cam payed to do will be deemed recup adapt in coming years -- redundant in coming years. a teacher of mine once said there's no free lunch in energy, and that's the best -- [inaudible] there's no magic wand we can wave and hope that britain gets green overnight. no way we can do it. and the campaign's in existence at the moment by the people like greenpeace and u.k. climate change coalition. they're working really well, but the only way we could come pain for a greener future is by spending a year on it.

we can't spend a year making decisions that could effect the rest of the u.k. for years and years to come. it isn't a sensible idea. [inaudible] a team of young people who actually proposed and i did put a greener future in the manifesto, and that was great, but this isn't the way to do it. we don't need to be campaigning for renewable energy and that kind of thing, so don't vote for green -- [inaudible] thank you. [applause] >> thank you. the general debate is now -- can we have somebody from scotland? yeah. what about the young guy right at the back. thank you. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i'm nick -- [inaudible] representing aberdeenshire west in scotland. although i don't actually support this motion today, i do believe the other motions are far more pressing a matter, ld like to address two points on this debate.

first, i think we should be looking for our local authority to be putting more pressure on us to do our best in helping the environment. by local authority gave us recycling bins and paper bags to make sure that we are actually making active effect on our environment. and secondly, i think we need to look at consumerism and our environment. we are a consumer nation, we love to intake things and throw them away when we want. we need to look at how we can attract this issue by insuring that we sustain our consumerism whilst not damaging the planet to such a great ec tempt. this is all about giving a little to get a lot, and although i don't support this motion, i do believe it is something that must be change inside britain today. thank you. [applause] >> the young woman at the very back. please. >> -- oh, sorry.

i'm -- [inaudible] and i'm from suffolk. as an organization we are tasked with representing youth issues. as young people, is this really a key view point for us to put forward? of course, the ukyp supports a greener future, but we must prioritize our campaign to actively bettering the young peoples of the u.k. [applause] >> thank you. okay. what about yorkshire number five? who have we got left from yorkshire number five trying to speak? what about the young perp here? >> -- person here? >> popty johnson. as ryan said, the u.k. has developed senately in the amount of energy and waste it would reduce. i think in order to continue this, we need to develop the schemes nationwide, we need standardized recycling facilities. a lot of areas just have a green

bin, a lot of brown bins, glass recycling. it's not consistent throughout the u.k. i also believe local authority should provide allotments in situations like that to allow constituents to develop their own energy resources and help to provide a better, greener future for britain. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. what about somebody from london? a big list of people from london. yeah, sure, i think you're about to burst. we must hear from you. no. this is a theatrical performance. >> thank you. i'm -- [inaudible] from london. um, the manifesto states that we want to use more renewable energy. as england going through an economic crisis, a lot more money would be needed to create these turbines, and you also

have to think about people's homes, where are you going the put these things? you can't force people to recycle unless there's a consequence teaching them what beneficial this is to them, how would you enforce this? this would be a binning of a new england. this would be setting an example to the old generation of how much we care for our country and our constituencies. the small things we do now would mean a better future. thank you. [applause] >> what about the east midlands? who have we got from the east midlands? yeah. what about this young man here. please. >> michael darling from nottinghamshire. we cannot force people to recycle, but -- [inaudible] in their green bins what should not be there. we talk about wind turbines, but when they go out to people to be put off, everyone just opposes against them but do not want them on the land. they're far better in the seament -- sea.

[inaudible] the whole country money. we can do a lot more things for this country to go greener. how about -- [inaudible] not taking the bus or car? it is much better to cycle because it's healthier for you and healthier for this country. thank you. [applause] >> what about the northeast of england? who have we got from the northeast of england? this person doing a merry dance. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> please. >> we need to stop relying on fossil fuels because everyone knows the amount of oil is going down, so the competition for oil is going up. so much so that any country will do anything to get that last drop of oil which will cause tension between countries' relations. i sport this campaign -- support or this campaign because it doesn't focus on the majority of young people, it doesn't focus on the minority of young people, it focus on every single young

person in the united kingdom! [applause] >> you're nearly there, i'm sure. [laughter] >> i ask the people to -- [inaudible] who the government needs to sort this out. we do not do challenges because they are easy, we do challenges because they are hard. every single youth parliament member this chamber today, i urge you to pledge your allegiance, rise to the occasion and in the words of -- [inaudible] imitate like a tiger and -- [laughter] show this campaign what you have done! [cheers and applause] thank you.

>> either he hasn't heard within a matter of minutes, i undertake personally to you to inform the honorable gentleman, the member of the northeast summer set, of the fact that he has been named in the chamber. now, let's have somebody from the southwest of england. >> wow. i see now the approach is to wave as furiously as possible. what about the young woman near the third row? yes, indeed. >> -- from the army welfare services, and i'm talking to support this motion, and as ryan said, you have to work for what you want, and we have to work to get a greener britain because nothing comes easy, especially nothing like this. and we need to reduce, reuse and recycle, otherwise we're not going to get anywhere, and this isn't just for us young people, it's for our children and their children and their children. and it's just going to carry on throughout the generations. so this isn't just to help us,

this is to help everybody, not just the minority or majority. and not only will it help the people in the u.k., it will help people around the world as well because u.k. is an influence to other countries that are not quite as developed. so, like, an inspiration to oh people and other countries. so, therefore, if we recycle and we reuse and we reduce then, therefore, everyone in the world will hopefully do the same. thank you. [applause] >> what about somebody from northern ireland? what about the young man here from northern ireland? yeah. >> yes, you. >> thank you, mr. speaker. [inaudible] i think we should vote for a greener future for britain. there's a much -- there is so much -- [inaudible] and it can just be a small thing that can make a big difference. for example, cigarette butts,

throw them in the bin. chewing gum, just put it in the bin to make a big difference. and chewing gum, it costs thousands and thousands of -- [inaudible] each year to get it cleaned off the ground, and that is such a waste of taxpayers money. the litter that is just thrown on the ground, it makes your village, city look absolutely horrible. even more can be done. the bottle, the can, the piece of paper you saw on the ground can be recycled. that is just a little bit of what can be done. there's a lot more we can do, and that is why you should vote for this motion. thank you. [applause] >> let's have a speaker now from the west midlands. who have we got from the west midlands? you've been standing quite a lot, yeah. >> hi, jenna barry, west midlands. okay, basically, i've always supported recycling, and it's always been a massive thing for me, and i'm all about saving the whales. but basically, to me, if you do

a little, it can really make an impact like when we're at school, recycling the paper that was thrown in the bin, like, that can make such a difference within the future and to our, like, generations and our children and their children like the girl over there said. and it might not be our biggest issue in parliament, and it might not be the most important thing that we've talked about tonight, but it is something that will help save us, and it will help save the world, as you can see. and i really want you to think about it and let your decision -- make your decision carefully because this is something that can make such a difference to us. so, thanks. [laughter] [applause] >> what about a speaker from the southeast of england? yeah. okay, what about this guy here -- yeah. thank you. >> thank you, mr. speaker. leon mann.

everyone's attention to a related point, an ambitious experiment that might effect each and every one of us in here, but you may or may not know about it, but you might have to pay for it as well. it's a 33 billion pound project called high speed two. now, if we were to invest such a huge sum of money, 32 billion pounds of taxpayers' money, then i think it's more than appropriate to only go ahead with it if we are 100% sure that it has a strong economic case and a strong environmental case as well. but so far i'm not convinced. the young people in buckle ham-- buckinghamshire are not convinced. so let's put 32 billion pounds into context. that's equivalent to every household in the u.k. contributing to 1,000 pounds each, and for every four miles

that the track's built, it's equivalent to the cost of one or two stadiums. environmental cases are built on a myriad of optimistic assumptions, and many think tanks and ngos are already bouncing off the case of hs2, and the government indeed admit that it will at best be carbon neutral. now, i do think that we should invest in green infrastructure to tim late economic growth. -- stimulate economic growth. 'em improvements to existing rails to reduce emissions, improve efficiency and to retuesday costs. reduce costs. but not a 32 billion pound project that is due to begin in 2017 and due to finish in 2025. now, i think the money can be better spent elsewhere to make britain greener and to end with a quote from one of my constituents, if the coalition firmly believes that labour have created and left them with mess

to sort out, then they should do the right thing, and they should do the sensible thing and bitch with ideological -- [inaudible] [applause] >> i need to hear someone from wales. from wales. what about the young person there with the very blond hair. yes. [laughter] >> thank you, mr. speaker. [inaudible] i don't even have to step up -- [inaudible] so, basically, i've seen a lot of people talk about good ideas, how we can do a lot of things with the environment and how we can save the world, but we need to think about how we're going to get to that stage. so many things we've talked about today, talked about tuition fees. do we really want to be spending the money on something that's so huge? we've got so many things we could do with the environment. we've got recycling, nobody's talked about the green -- [inaudible] we can use to make electric

cars. that is one huge factor that will be developing in maybe ten years. i think this is such a big project, we've got only one year to do it. the world's changing without us even noticing, and we've got many here, but we can make a change, and i think with these different things, there are more things that effect us, and we can change easier. thank you. [applause] >> [inaudible] as you know, i'm striving for balance, and you might be interested to know that my assistant has juris turned to me and -- just turn today me and said, mr. speaker, you need a woman from the northeast. so i need to call to speak a woman from the northeast if one wishes to do so. please. >> i'm emma -- [inaudible] from the northeast. people are correctly said that it's such a big issue which is out of our hands, but it is such a big issue, and it's only getting bigger, and it's only getting worse. it's an issue that we need to tackle now because in years to come it'll just become bigger

and harder to tackle. this is going to be an issue that effects young people not just in this generation, but in many generations to come, and in those generations to come they won't be able to tackle it anymore. if we start this now, we may be able to tackle this issue, and people won't have to deal with it later on when it's too big to deal with. [applause] >> okay. i could do with, i think, another speaker from are scotland if there is such. what about the gentleman right at the end there just pointing at himself and now looking -- no, no, the chap in the front row, the very front row. >> before talking -- oh, sorry, neil mcdonald, i represent scotland. before talking about how we should focus on a green future, studies have shown it's -- [inaudible] recycle. so if we can make it more available to everybody, then it's not going to happen.

we need to focus more on local authorities and make it more, give them more opportunity to extend it out because if we don't make it shown to the less fortunate of our people, then it's not going to happen. [applause] >> how about london. who have we got from london? certainly somebody who hasn't spoken before. yeah. the woman with the pale blue top. yes, you. >> thank you very much. my name's megan, and i'm respecting the -- [inaudible] who here's been watching frozen planet? yes? how cute are the pepg wins, and you look at the landscape, and it's fantastic. all over the world how beautiful it is and how selfish we are to not even be able to recycle because we're lazy and we don't want to lift rubbish, and we don't want to take the bus instead of getting our parents to drop us off ott at our

friends' house. this is rah pragmatic campaign. -- pragmatic campaign. the government has already signed a form to say that we have to reduce our carbon emissions by 2015. let's work with them, let's help them, let them help us, and we can really make a change. that's my point, thank you very much. [applause] >> what about somebody from the west midlands? i think that you are in a state of uncontrollable excitement. and we must hear from grow. from you. >> -- [inaudible] from the west midlands. i do think making britain greener is a good issue, but i don't think -- i don't really see it as a national campaign. i think it should be, first, more locally or maybe even regionally. and as the u.k. are going through a current, you know,

financial crisis should -- should we be using our money on this? and so, and, yeah, and it costs quite a lot to do these kind of things, and i don't know, like, we should be using money on this topic. and instead of doing little things which can make a big difference in our local communities. [applause] >> what about a speaker from the northwest of england? the northwest? yeah. the young woman here. thank you. >> i think that it isn't so much as a -- oh, sorry. [inaudible] i don't think this is a private cam pay, i think it's time with the transport because you'd get more people going on the buses, people on the buses are not in the -- [inaudible] that's my point. [applause] >> okay.

i think we need to hear somebody from the southwest. what about the southwest? what about -- [laughter] this young man here with the -- yes, blond hair. >> me? >> thank you. >> my colleagues over here, we can't -- [inaudible] i'm george, i'm from the southwest. the environment, a greener britain, a greener future. a future is going to effect every single person in this room and every single person outside of this room. we face a decision, a decision i think can only be reasonably answered with one answer, and i'm afraid we can't support this prompt. project. u.k. youth parliament has one opportunity this year to make one decision to support one project, one project, not two, not three, not four. we have to be reasonable. international and transatlantic

communications, copenhagen, everything needs to focus on the environment, and nobody seems to get anywhere. the problem still stands. i completely respect every single person in this room, and i believe everybody in here can be who they want to be and to what they want to do, but i have to look at it reasonably and look at what the u.k. youth pardon mement is -- parliament is capable of doing. people who are scientists and specialists in that area. we are not. i'm afraid that we are not. and i cannot say that we are, and i cannot say that we can do it. i can say that we can help our young people how we can, where we can and when we can and, unfortunately, this area is not one of them, not yet and not now. in ten years' times that is when you can make that decision and say i can do something for my people that i represent. i can do something for my constituencies. until then, we cannot support this. we need to sport something that

helps our young people now. >> thank you. [cheers and applause] >> the young woman from northern ireland who wishes to speak? no? we haven't got a young woman from northern ireland wishing to speak? well, we'll have the lady who stood quite frequently in the red dress. we'll have you. >> oh -- [inaudible] southeast. thank you, mr. speaker. however important it is to our panel, we are getting better at it but the environment -- [inaudible] at the end of 2010 that we only have eight years left of -- [inaudible] okay, so this is awful. something needs to change. but this change can't happen as it's -- [inaudible] like lots of you have said because it's not working. because there can't be one project that fits all. we have different size local authorities and different size people, so we need to go back to our local authorities and try and make the change there. but as -- when you think about

things like people dying with a poverty campaign and -- [inaudible] thank you. [applause] >> this is far and away the most difficult thing, i'm afraid. we have reached the point at which we must conclude the decan bait, and i must call -- i know it's disappointing for people who have stood and tried. we've worked as hard as we can to accommodate as wide a variety of people as possible, but i now hope you'll warmly welcome mr. alec howells to conclude -- [cheers and applause] >> thank you, mr. speaker. i'm alec howells, southwest/northeast somerset. i'd like to give a thanks to the gentleman up here for his impassioned speech as the points he made are the ones i'd like you to keep many mind.

you'll hear about your remarks. [laughter] i'll begin my summation with a stressing side of this issue as across all of the following points this really is the most important thing you must keep in mind. climate change effects everything. it is possibly the largest challenge faced by man to date. the planet we live on, the global machine we're a part of, the cycle of the natural balance of the world is being skewed by human actions, and there's something that must be done. this isn't to be debated upon here, of course, it is in our top five priorities. sons you'll be -- soon you'll be voting for the national campaign for next year. i'll ask you to keep these points in mind at the national cam pay. we can talk of issues such as transport and tuition fees, and under one canopy we can see every single consequence to our actions, every single implication to our words. a groaner future -- greener future simply isn't like this.

the enormity of the issue means that we'll be campaigning into the grand beyond, indeed, as the against motions stressed so well, the answers have not yet been figured out, and some of the things we campaign for such as renewable energy could well be deemed redundant in a large amount of time. an exciting but unsure venture, do we want to take this risk? targets such as recycling and household insulation which when coordinated on a national scale could really revolutionize this country's carbon foot print. the smaller targets, of course, also reap more general benefits such as possibly more household income. hitting more bird with more than one stone, if you may. the question you should ask yourself is, do i want to risk campaigning for something which could be deemed redundant in a number of years, or would i rather campaign on an issue where i can be sure that all of my efforts have definite,

predictable and practical outcomes? the next point i'd ask you the keep in mind is the presence of power in this issue. there are two outcomes to this debate. however we come out combating the issue before -- worldwide organizations already doing so or we work on it individually in our local constituencies helping with requirements unique to our areas. the point is, as the against motion argues, the country's already working on the issue. we have an agreement such as the 2008 climate change, we can assure something will be done. do we want to campaign on an issue already being prioritized by the country or rather one where there may have been no voice to replace ours? the motion would argue shouldn't we help anyway? this issue touches all of man kind. it is infinitely larger than us and has implications well beyond

what we can imagine in our lifetime. are we obliged to step in and help together? should we campaign for this because it is such a large issue? is it our duty to do so? i'll close on an optimistic note. i want to remind you all of the power we have. the true question you must ask yourself today when you reach the ballot box is not what can we do. ukyp, we can do anything no matter how insurmountable these issues may seem, no matter how colossal, no matter how much opposition we may face, if we work together as an organization of young people for a year, we can make irreversible changes that will benefit young people for generations to come. the only question you must ask yourself is an ethics-based one. what is it our duty to do? where do our responsibilities as members of the youth parliament lie? should we be fighting injustice to youth in