>> host: will you sign books? >> guest: after signing those i have to be elsewhere. >> host: our couple quick questions. can we bring up a microphone? >> guest: i hope i have answers. no questions? i think we have been at this for 90 minutes a you have heard all you need to hear from me. go ahead. >> thank you so much for being here and for sharing your words. i was very inspired. hy was particularly interested in your description of the collaborative environment in which you were raised professionally. as someone who is not experiencing the same thing in the workplace, more of a

competition among entry-level workers and the more senior workers i am wondering if you could speak of the -- your opinion on that. how did we move away from cooperative workplace to competitive workplace and what effect does that have on the workplace and productivity of all of us? >> guest: can you repeat that question? >> host: can you make it shorter? >> cooperative workplace. >> host: cooperative workplace versus competitive workplace. >> you're inspiring mentor and where do they go in the workplace? are they still there? am i not finding them? >> guest: i am not sure that i can answer that. i think they are still here. i think it still exists. what i think is the information

overload and what we see on the screen all day every day has so many parts to it it is hard to pull stuff out. i don't think we make the same assessment or inventory that we once did. life was a lot easier at one point in terms of choices we had to make and we knew what they were going to be. that is not so true anymore. >> thank you. >> host: if you could make your questions very tight. very tight. good to see you. >> i am a print journalist and spent some years both attending and covering conclaves of print journalists in the american society of newspaper editors. the national -- newspaper association of america. they bent themselves into pretzels talking about how they and have to find new ways to reach young people. at a certain point there is a limit. can you recommend a way for the

news industry to get together with the educational system to somehow revived gene for public affairs that seems to have somehow slipped out of the bloodstream? >> guest: a big internal debate in journalism whether we should be trying to proactively encourage people. >> the newspaper industry and the news industry can only do so much. >> guest: i didn't think that was the mission of the newspaper to try to be a proactive agent for getting people interested in public affairs. i think our job is cover the news. that is what i really think. i think other institutions have to get involved and get people more involved in public affairs. what i do think is if you are reasonably nimble on the internet now you can find almost any organization you want including those that will pull you in to public policy discussions and make you part of a kind of cybergroup.

at the moment, it is like drinking from a fire hydrant. there are so many choices out there. bill clinton talks about the need to have a place where you can get a test for reliable information. society has atomized by all of this information that is going on. i think we have to continue doing what we are doing and make sure public discourse is engaging and people understand it has relevance to their lives. >> host: we will take one more question. go-ahead. >> thank you so much for coming. what is your advice for a young journalist with inspiring stories? >> guest: my advice is studying medicine. become a doctor. my honest advice is obviously you have to get used to the new

instrumentation and you have to be a math strategist. there will always be a place for someone who can write. someone who can express themselves coherently and explain complex issues in ways that people can take away from something that is meaningful and useful to them whether it comes off the internet or printed page or television. we have far too much now of what i call the school of hand journalism. everyone talking with their hands all the time. it is improvisational. the well constructed sentence is important over the air as it is on the printed page or on the internet. >> host: thank you very much. >> guest: thank you. [applause] ♪

>> you are watching 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2's booktv. now more from booktv city's tour. this weekend we visit birmingham, alabama. an interview with carolyn maull mckinstry, author of "while the world watched". the birmingham bombing survivor comes of age during the civil rights movement. >> what i remember when the bomb exploded is not really thinking it was a bomb. the first thought that i had was maybe it was thunder or something. the sound made me think of thunder. as quickly as i caught that the

windows came crashing in. and i heard someone inside the church say hit the floor. and when i fell on the floor i could tell after a few seconds i could hear feet. i could tell people were getting up and running out so my first thought was for those two younger brothers that i had brought with me. i knew that before i could leave for go to safety i would figure out where they were and so i went outside and search downstairs and upstairs and was never able to find my brothers. we would find later in a different part of the community. september 15th started as a very routine day. it was sunday morning. i was trying to cope with my sister into getting her hair combed and my mother said just leave her here. i will bring her later with me. so my two younger brothers, left with me, my oldest brother

dropped us off at church and we arrive right about 9:30 and after putting them in their classes i went upstairs to the church office to gather my equipment. i was responsible for taking attendance and i was responsible for recording the financial giving to the day and creating a summary report i would give later but i did this, select all of these reports and said the mouth and sat in my sunday school class and at 9:15 i would get up and collect those reports and create the summary. on this particular sunday we were very excited. all the young people were excited because it just meant we were in charge of everything. we saying, gave the devotion, did the assuring and did everything. we were excited about that. as i started up the stairs to

complete those reports bypassed the bathroom where my friends were and spoke to them and they were coming here and talking and everyone excited in their own way about different things but i didn't linger there because of the report and as i started up the steps when i reached the top the phone was ringing in the church office. in those days the church office was right behind the sanctuary. so when i reached the church office and heard the phone ring high went in and answered it. there was someone i worked under him was not there. and the caller, male caller on the other end said three minutes and as quickly as he said that he hung up. so i still had my items in my arms and i turned and walked out into the sanctuary. only because we counted as i knew i took 15 steps before the bomb exploded. >> what was the last thing you

said before you left them in the bathroom? >> see you later when i passed the bathroom. see you later. birmingham was a very segregated place during that time. it was a very difficult, dark and difficult place during that time. as a young person probably prior to the age of 14 we did not experience a lot of the difficult days. our parents did such a great job sheltering as many of our activities were provided for us at the church and in the school so that we didn't miss the places we did not go or the places we were not allowed to go. they provided picnics and swimming parties and contests and all kinds of activities at the church. so we didn't really know to what extent we were missing a lot of things.

i think our parents did not want us to know that there were a lot of restrictions out beyond the home parameters and so from anything they just didn't tell us about it. they sheltered us. when for example they opened the first fast food place rather than allow us to know that they did not serve black people rather than have us go to a side window when they did serve them, they just kept us at home and always told us it was about money. they didn't have the money to do these things. so in a real way we did not know many of the barriers that exist out there. it was a real gift in a lot of ways not knowing that the barriers were there. there were no imaginary barriers in our mind saying we can't do this because of those people or this person or whatever. we really grew up thinking that we could do anything we wanted.

we could be anyone we wanted to be. in my elementary school to my high school, they felt we would find out soon enough what famous were possible and what things weren't but they really did tremendous job preparing us so that if the opportunities came we would be ready. i think our church was heartbroken. they were young, innocent girls. they had not been part of the movement. they had their full life ahead of the. they were all very bright, smart young girls in school. in two cases they were the only children. denise and cynthia were the only children their parents had. the church was really shocked that we had people in our city

who were willing not only to kill young children in the name of segregation but to bomb a house of worship to maintain that. we were away from our church eight months during the renovation but we had many members who did not come back. some did not come back because they were afraid. they thought it would happen again or something new would happen. some did not come back because they thought the church would continue to have mass meetings and so forth. i would venture to say we had half of the congregation return after the renovation. the church reacted very strongly to what happened. it was a very painful experience. i can tell you that prior to this experience i was just a young girl growing up in a house with four brothers who picked on me a lot, but life was good. i had very loving parents.

we had a lot of fun at home. after the bombing of the church a lot of things changed. i think we all probably became a little more quiet. we became a little more fearful. we heard these bombs going off but all of a sudden it was very real because we lost four of our friends. i struggled with it tremendously because i was trying to understand as a child of 14, trying to understand what could make this situation right. if this was all about the color of your skin, what would they get right? what after all were we supposed to do? we understand we can't change the parents to whom we are born, our gender, our color. what are we supposed to do differently? that is what i kept trying to figure out.

became just a very troubling thought that i carry around. i didn't understand. six months after they bombed the church they bombed the house across the street from where i was growing up. with that second bomb i became convinced, i can tell you i was afraid most of the time wherever i was wherever i was traveling when i went off to school, i was convinced that sooner or later i was going to die from one of the bombs that was exploding in birmingham. so i found myself for many years after that probably 20 years suffering from depression at a time when we didn't call it depression but it took a long time to sort through the things that had happened in birmingham and understand them and put them in perspective. what made me decide to write the book was the resurgence that i began to see.

i really felt america had reached a crossroads many years after the bombing of the church. i really felt america had looked back and had looked at all the mistakes we made in our country and they were committed to moving forward in a positive way for all its citizens and when i began to realize the extreme things that were contradictory to that i decided that perhaps we had forgotten many of the lessons that we had learned in the 60s. in many cases we hadn't talked those lessons but in other cases we had forgotten. so i decided i would go back and recapture the memories of a 14-year-old from the bombing of the church. >> and now condoleezza rice recount her tenure in the bush administration where she served as national security adviser from 2001-2005 and as the 66 secretary of state from 2005 to 2009.

this is about 50 minutes. >> it is wanting to learn american history in the classroom and another to absorber these lessons. one of the twenty-first century's chief architect of american foreign policy. the cobb leadership lecture series established by ambassador su, to commemorate her husband chuck cobb's 50th birth day. please join me in recognizing su and chuck for 25 years of providing the university of miami the opportunity to host insightful and provocative leaders from all walks of life. [applause] i also want the students to thank them for generously

donating 300 of secretary rice's big book which were given to the first three hundred students who attended this year's event. [applause] university takes no credit for doing this. i want to thank mr. kaplan of books and books. the university discussed launching a new partnership to bring speakers to campus. one week later he called to say we were going to have an opportunity to host secretary rice's first public book tour event. this is the beginning of a beautiful relationship. thank you very much. [applause] they have sponsored other distinguished speakers like catherine weinberger and ross perot, commissioner david stern,

david burke. soo and chuck have dedicated their careers to serving their country and their community in a variety of ways. between them very formidable diplomatic corps that spans from iceland to jamaica to dc, tallahassee and miami. soo served as ambassador to jamaica from 2001 to 2005 during the same time with secretary rice serving as national security adviser and secretary of state. governor jeb bush appointed her secretary of state of florida 2005-2007. she cochaired the department of state mandatory seminars for newly appointed ambassadors. in an interesting twist she spoke at stanford university where secretary rice is a distinguished member of the faculty and former provost and university of miami school of law. chuck cobb was u.s. ambassador to the republic of iceland

during the administration of george h. w. bush and during the reagan administration he served as undersecretary and assistant secretary of the secretary of commerce where he was thoughtful for trade development and export and international travel and tourism and appointed by florida's governor jeb bush and charlie crist to serve on a statewide board. they serve on the board of directors as consul of american ambassadors. chuck is a double graduate of stanford. we can't claim him as an alumnus the long-term member of chairman of the board of the university of miami board of trustees. please welcome miami diplomatic dynamic duo ambassador cobb. [applause] >> thank you. dr. rice, ambassador cobb,

guests, very pleased to have all of you here. this whole thing's sort of unfolded around the impetus of my husband's leadership. so we have outstanding leaders come through this area, we are arranged to have the university of miami students and our guests participate and that has been an extraordinary player. this year we hit the jackpot with condoleezza rice. we do have a relationship that is that goes back that you know i think dr. rice was provost at stanford and is back now at the institute. check and i spent eight years on the campus at stanford. it was not because we couldn't graduate. that is a different story. and we have many mutual friends

from our service in government in stanford and elsewhere. and of course we also had the privilege of service to our country at a very consequential time. one thing i enjoyed thinking about his leadership also. i think of dr. rice as a transformational leader. in fact i think of president a shalala and ambassador cobb as transformational leaders. you might ask what are the common traits? vision, textual knowledge, understanding the environment in which you are operating, communication skills that are challenging but am powering, rock-solid integrity, unusual

determination and perseverance and perseverance. as you might guess i emigrated mirer of dr. rice. not quite as much as muammar gadhafi. i don't have his scrapbook. [applause] i do have an enormous regard for dr. rice. i am very pleased that she is here and to do her formal introduction i would like to invite ambassador cobb to the stage. [applause] >> good morning, everybody. thank you, president shalala and my wife for those nice comments. before i introduce condoleezza rice i want to share with all of

you a bias that i have. this bias is i have a strong affinity for smart, strong, powerful, successful and charismatic women leaders. as evidence of that -- [applause] as evidence of that i have been married to one of those ladies for 52 years. [applause] but as second evidence of that i had the pleasure to share the committee of the university of miami presidency and our first choice by far was dr. shalala because she had all those skills. [applause]

and thirdly i am on the board of the woodrow wilson center and i had the honor to chair the committee where our first choice was condoleezza rice who clearly has all those skills. i will talk more about that in a moment. [applause] unfortunately' we couldn't get her away from stanford. we couldn't get her away from the supreme court. and so we were successful in encouraging congresswoman jane harman who was the congresswoman from california and a very charismatic driven powerful, wonderful, smart lady. it is quite obvious from all of this i really do have this bias and for that reason and opportunity and pleasure to

introduce the most successful woman in the world and i really do believe that. you heard from my wife about leadership skills and clearly condoleezza rice has all of those. but in my opinion the most important leadership skills she has and i think all successful leaders have it, is the ability to bring people together. to team build, seek a common ground. no woman is more skilled at this condoleezza rice. national security adviser as you all know, it is her job to bring really diverse personalities together. so in her case it was dick cheney, the vice president, colin powell, secretary of state and donald rumsfeld, secretary of defense. really different personalities, release strong personalities, a lot of tension as you will read in this book, but she brought a

consensus and under her leadership they made some of the most important decisions of this century and because of that great ability to team build. she also use that skill as secretary of state to deal with tough problems in israel on one hand and benefit pakistan and india and day after day countries that had really diverse and fundamental differences. no one was better at bringing everyone together than dr. condoleezza rice. at age 48 secretary rice was named provost at stanford. she was the first woman, first minority and the august provost, she showed exceptional leadership skills at stanford and since that time universities all over the country trying to

get her to be their president but again they were as unsuccessful as i was at getting her. she has diverse skills. she is a concert pianist, sports aficionado and because of her leadership skills has been offered commissioner of the pack 12 and has been considered commissioner of the nfl and a lot of other sports franchises. she serves on the board of hewlett-packard, chevron, charles schwab, carnegie, transamerica and many other organizations. so ladies and gentlemen, it is my really distinct pleasure and no higher honor can this university have than to have a leader with so many talents and experiences. so i present to you the former secretary of state and national security advisor, condoleezza rice. [applause] >> thank you.

that was beautiful. thank you. thank you very much. thank you. [applause] >> madam secretary, welcome. how long have i been inviting you here? >> a few years. most of our questions were submitted by students. let me start with the first one. one of our students asked how to i get to the secretary of state? >> let me just start by thanking you very much. i have known president shalala as secretary shalala but also as my friend donald. thank you for having me here. [applause] i want to thank my good friends

the cobbs, ambassadors cobb for their service and extraordinary friendship. and thanks to you, university of miami students for having me here. how do you become secretary of state? you start as of females -- failed piano major. i went to college to be a concert pianist. studied from the age of 3. never any doubt that was what i was going to do and in the summer of my sophomore year i went to something called the aspen music festival school which a lot of prodigy's were there and there were 12-year-olds who played the pipe when i could play after only one year. they were 12 and i was 17. undecided i was going to end up teaching of 30 -- murder beethoven or play at nordstrom's some place. find careers but not really for me. i wandered into a course in international politics and it was taught by a soviet specialist who was madeleine

albright's father. he opened up for world of diplomacy and eastern european and all of a sudden i knew i wanted to be a soviet specialist. so the first lesson of how to get to where i am is you find something you absolutely love to do. tell each and every one of you to find your passion. not what job you want. not what career you want but what you are passionate about. what will wake you up every day and make you want to go into that. technically if you are fortunate you are passionate and your talent focuses together and i went on to be a professor at stanford and when i was a young professor i've met in a seminar at stanford a man named brent who had been a national security adviser to president gerald ford and would become a national security adviser for george h. w. bush. the point interest in my career and when president george h. w.

bush was elected he took me to meet the white house soviet specialist and i was fortunate to meet the soviet specialist at the end of the cold war. doesn't get much better than that. the second lesson is find people who are interested in you and your career. they will help guide you and open up opportunities. we sometimes say i want to get there on the run. nobody gets there on their own. there are always mentors. there is another important lesson. sometimes we say you have to have role models who look like you. i have been waiting for a black woman soviet socialist vendor i would still be waiting. your mentor is your role model, can come in any color, shape or size. just find somebody who cares about you and your career. the final part of that story is in 1990, came to the white house

and we were sitting together on the lawn of the white house in marine one getting ready to take off from california. gorbachev and his wife, the secret service and by far ironclad i change my major. so if you find your passion, if you find people who will support you and you work hard and don't worry too much about what comes next incredible opportunities to open themselves to you. finally i say get involved in politics at some point. find a candidate you like and work for the. ultimately that is how i got to be secretary of state. i worked with george w. bush and became secretary of state. those are the thoughts i have that are most important right now. find your passion. [applause] >> let's talk about the organization of decisionmaking and your role in the national

security council. that rolled was painful for me to read it. if you were to advise now after your experience in that job in particular a president of the united states would you suggest to them that one characteristic of the members of that team whether it is secretary of defense or treasury or even vice president would be gets along well with others? >> that might eliminate a fair number of people in washington. i would be careful about that. there is no doubt that we had strong personalities but i hope i gave the impression in the book that they were debate about substance. these were not personal issues. nonetheless, we got along just fine until the most stressful time and the most stressful times were around the war on terror and iraq. and so perhaps the lesson is in so-called normal times to the

degree that things are ever normal in decisionmaking in washington you can -- it is important to have different voices and even deal with the intention but when things get tough it is easier if people get along. that perhaps is the lesson i would say to the president. you can do fine with personalities that may clash if things are going well. win they get drunk it is a lot harder. >> following up on that question. it is personality but also very strong points of view. some black and white and some more nuanced than you describe in your book. the fact each political party has kind of us strategies that needs to be reflected in the foreign policy leadership or bring people in to consult with them? wishing pretty hard on how you put the team together.

>> it is a really fine line. if you put a team together where people have used better too similar you have movement. that is not a good thing. when i was secretary of state you had a couple curmudgeons on my staff who would come in and challenge me about everything i wanted to because i have always thought -- this is true in school. if you are constantly in the company of people who saymen, find other company because you don't actually test your assumptions in that way. so i would tend to err in the direction of people who have strong views who do express them, but can also put them aside ultimately. >> within the political party both republican and democratic parties a do have people with widely different views. if you were actually advising a president you can't anticipate

you will go through some time so what characteristics of that foreign policy team -- in past years we had people in foreign policy meetings who were lawyers but not necessarily have the substantive expertise that you have. >> we have on our foreign policy team if you think about it quite experienced foreign-policy hands. the secretary of defense, vice president cheney had a secretary of defense in the white house, colin powell was chairman of the joint chiefs and national security adviser -- i was -- i am not sure why the personalities didn't jell and i am not actually sure -- i don't think it was observable before we got to washington. that is why i say i think it was the time that was sensitive. i would say to a president choosing a foreign policy team,

think about talking to people about internal dynamics. think about the team apart. they have strong views. strong views are important. you don't want a president just hearing one side of the story. think about the team dynamics as well. >> let's talk about latin america and the caribbean. do you think it makes sense to focus on latin america and the caribbean as a region in developing u.s. policy given the fact that so many -- the country differs in the stage of development and so many of them there issues of global issues. >> in one sense we want to think about latin america and the caribbean as a region -- i would say of the western hemisphere which is that there is a kind of national affinity for trade policy. we do share some problems of the

kind of transnational borders of trying to deal with trafficking and arms and trafficking and drugs until there are reasons to work with the region. i also think since the organization of american states has a democratic charter we should have a view of our hemisphere, versus your neighborhood as being democratic but you make a good point. once you get beyond those big categories you really are talking about countries that are very different in how they interact in the globe. brazil thinks of itself as a regional leader but brazil is also one of the most important emerging economies for the global economy. it is one of the bricks, emerging economies that has its hand structuring how the international economy looks going forward. when you think about countries -- obviously the united states.

when you think about countries along the pacific rim and latin america they connect more to the economies of asia. i was struck what i would go to the summit of the americas about latin america and caribbean and we would have these discussions and hugo chavez would take off and whenever. we would go to the asia pacific economic council and if the pacific rim countries up the pacific rim all the way to canada through japan and china and korea and their conversation was completely different. it was about global trade, free trade and so i actually always thought in that sense the

countries had more in common with their asian counterparts than their latin american counterparts. >> is how they perceive themselves significant? i think it is. >> if you look at places like chile there are quite developed in many ways. colombia is getting there in development. countries like brazil are interesting because on the one hand is leading the global -- one of the leaders of a global economy but with huge income distribution difficulties that keep it more in the developing countries side. if you look at some of the poorest countries in central america or guatemala, you are talking about places where you can't reach the farmers on the island by highway so their problems are to build infrastructure so that they can join the 20th century economy. forget the 20 first century economy. you have radically different levels of development but radically different levels of development within countries.

look at the north -- the interior of the country. very different levels of development within the country. >> secretary of state think of cuba differently than as part of the region because of the domestic politics and the relationship? >> we think of cuba differently because it is the one country we can't even take a seat at the table because it doesn't have a democratically elected president and unfortunately we have a history with cuba of castro's decision to involve soviet nuclear capability that friend the territory of the united states, hiding anti-american regimes and so there are foreign policy reasons that we have a different relationship with cuba but my hope is in the larger democratization that is going on across the world that cuba can't be left behind. it has to be the case that when

fidel castro goes the cuban people get a chance to elect their next government. [applause] >> that was a setup question. financial security adviser and secretary of state are almost firefighters to get woken up in the middle of the night. someone does something stupid within your organization or around the world. how do you anticipate the future? some evidence that while there was a basis for the arab spring or even other predict and of the soviet collapse hard to you anticipate the future when you are in those particular leadership roles for the president but more important for the country and how do you organize yourself to do that? >> you try to have experts who

are keeping an eye on things. in this regard having embassies who really know the place and can get out into communities. when they had tried to get foreign service officers to do was not talk to other foreign officials but try to get out in the country and get a sense for what the conversation is on the street in the country and that sometimes will give you a bit of early warning. secondly on the arabs praying i think we knew something was coming. the freedom agenda we launched in the middle east, president bush had given his second inaugural address in which he talked about the need to be no man, one or child including in the middle east. i gave a speech at the american university in cairo saying egypt needed to lead the revolution. never going to see hosni mubarak the morning i gave the speech

and saying to him mr. president, get out ahead of this sunni prison get reforms started before your people are in the street because what you could feel by the was the kind of seething anger that was growing against authoritarians who were corrupt, authoritarian is who were planning succession from themselves to their sons. you could sense mubarak or ben ali in to nietzsche were increasingly isolated from people who were telling them they're people loved them but on the street the people didn't love them. so you had -- we had a sense that this was coming. ..

thank you, but when. >> that was the issue. >> there was a general sense that things were going bat was not enough. people knew that the infrastructure, political, economic, social was weak. i was in the city in for the first time in 1917 and studying language therefore extended amount of time, and i was -- i remember thinking ahead this issue of the soviet military

commander robert going into a store to buy some little just before my family, and they were doing the computation of the prices on an abacus. i have not seen an abacus since second grade in birmingham, alabama. i thought, well, this is a very not developed place. he stuck to get a sense that something is really wrong. so i think they knew that the infrastructure was weak. it took, however, a true believer in marxist ideology that it could triumph over the fact that people were estonian or ukrainian, and it took somebody who believed you could reform the soviet union, gorbachev, trying to and then it collapsed. but i can tell you that the law still in 1990, this of the new class is december 205th 1991. in 1990 when we reunifying germany, i don't think anybody thought that they causes of the

gain was the euro. >> one of my assistance of the mix harassed about social media and have a foreign policy established to have established and followed most serious social media run the world that when that part of the intelligence gathering >> it is now. and i took with me someone named sean mccormick from the white house who is very interested in merging. there was not yet anything called facebook or twitter, what people were on the internet all the time and chat rooms. so if research to understand better what was away on there, so i also ask the former student of mine, a gentleman who would later on go to work for secretary clinton to go and start thinking about, did we want to even try to help people to democratize. so he created to groups of

friends, for instance, people who read helps to overthrow terrorism and columbia who good chat with people in the middle east were trying to deal with terrorism, so we were starting to get social media, but understands now -- of course social b.s. ellis cellarage, not the cause, but under accelerant. but very interesting is what happens with social media in china. the regime is doing everything it can to -- control the internet, is terrified of the internet to my hiking into service to try to find ??? people like an advocate you might be on line and apparently social media is going wild in china. the regime is not so certain maybe it is not a bad thing that people have a way to vent through social media, so you remember the story of this general that was run over in the

streets, that exploded into the social media in china, but it is one thing to think that people will just venting, but eventually they will vent and want to organize to do something about it. and so social media, i think, is going to continue to have a huge impact on how the revolution, reform, to my position takes place. and so foreign policy experts in the years ahead are going to have to follow social media. >> absolutely. >> i think it will be one of the most important forces of understanding the pulse of what is going on these government. governments are not irrelevant by any means, but populations of more empowered than they have never been by social media. >> i will have to ask you about a rock. one of the things you do is put a broader context and a broader justification of the reasons to go into the country, and you

describe this as a kind of evidence security risk. my question is, first, how did you change the color of -- collection of intelligent of formation after your experience in iraq? clearly there were real questions about how accurate the information was. >> well, the most different thing that we did was to reorganize the intelligence agencies. by the way, both as a result of the intelligence failure prior to september 11th and the intelligence failure with kaythree because in the prior case we had a wall between domestic intelligence, with the fbi did, and next and intelligence, was the cia did. and the cross, as they did we could not -- the could not talk to one another. in iraq -- >> ec's me. would you explain be as many of

the students may never understand why we have that gap between the fpai and the cia. >> the gap, the wall, as i like the college, was there for a very legitimate and the reason. we did not want foreign intelligence agency, the cia, being asked -- active inside the country and perhaps spying, to use that word come on domestic events, on american citizens and so forth. so the cia was kept to a foreign intelligence agency. the fbi, which operated under rules and laws, think law-and-order, the fbi, was the internal of intelligence is a c. well, just to give you one example, a few nights before 911 a telephone call was made in san diego by one of the men who would ultimately be the son of a suicide hijacker to afghanistan. we could not track across that

boundary because we did not want the tracking of phone calls and said the united states by foreign intelligence. so what i like to have known what he said? a couple of days before? when we realized that, of course, we had an internal security problem, an attack on our internal security, we had to sew up that gap so that the cia and with the devil was going on and said the country, and the fbi and what they knew well was guidance of the country to talk to one another. and that is the so-called patriot act, that's what it actually clothes that seem. so that was a little bit different. we had as many, depending upon how you count them, as between 15 and 17 different intelligence agencies. the defense department of energy department, state department, cia department, etc.

the person he was in charge of all of them as the director of central intelligence was also the head of the cia. so we had this strange situation in which we have all this different intelligence reporting, but obviously the director of the cia was human interested his own intelligence is in more than all of these others that he was supposed to be over, and we found that some of the counter evidence about what was going on in iraq coal weapons of mass destruction programs probably did not get the airing in hearing that it might have. so we created the director of national intelligence who is not the director of the state. a separate person to help the president understand when there are disagreements in the intelligence is is and give more of a total picture of what is going on with intelligence, so that was the big reform that was made.

>> also, you have talked in at least one speech about add to satori self-defense as part of the context for making the decision to go into a rock. i really want to ask you, when you examine the barack situation and there was a discussion, did you look at other countries as well? because if you look at the list of this vacation you could put those on a ron as well. and so why take to rather than air run commanded you look at more than one kutcher? >> iraq was unique because we had been to war against saddam was sent in 1991. he was systematically violating the armistice. he was found in 1991 to have had been one year from a crude

nuclear device. he had used weapons of mass destruction against the iranians and against his own people. the constraints that were put on him were starting to break down, including, the fact that we were flying so-called no-fly zones to keep his airforce on the ground. i can robber the president asking don rumsfeld, what we do if the it's a lucky shot embrace an american pilot. we were in a state of suspended at hostility, not a set apiece. in 1998 president clinton had actually launched cruise missiles against iraq. the inspector who was supposed to be keeping them message to the weapon of mass destruction programs under control have left the country. so he was different for his having dragged the region into war several times, including us, he was continuing, we believe, to build weapons of mass

destruction, a reconstituted his biological weapons, and was on his weka reconstituted his nuclear program. tried to assassinate president george is w. bush. he was considered the biggest threat in the middle east. as bad as north korea, as bad as a run, they were not in the categories like iraq where there were 16 security council resolutions that said that he was a threat to the international community. >> this that account for the need to focus on the israeli-palestinian issues, the says that it is unique compared to other parts of the world. >> yes. and the northern lip -- israeli-palestinian issue is that the key to peace in the middle east. a different kind of middle east. it is a piece. any student of international

politics, from the time that i was your age and college, which admittedly is a long time, from that time when you took a course in its stress on politics people started with the most volatile region and the world. that is still true today. people have been trying to do something about that for a long time. >> get rid of the volatility in every administration. >> every demonstration. >> do you see how about there? >> i do. i describe in the book, the prime minister of israel when i was sent to the states the current president of the palestinian authority were pretty close to a deal. a very good deal of the table. in political and legal trouble. and so it is not taken up for a variety of reasons, but the

reason i wrote about it is i wanted to suggest it is not a hopeless cause. there is an answer and they're is a solution. but time is not on either side. >> at like to go back to the soviet union. given your expertise about the soviet union, how do you think russia developing within the next few years to make the think their importance in the world will continue to increase? suppressing china. >> i think the russians were in trouble in terms of global staffing, and i think they know it. russia is a -- the russian economy is 80% on exports of oil, gas, and minerals. and now tell you a story that shows how much that oil, gas, and memory -- minerals is linked up with personal, political power and i was at the us

chilean foreign minister sachs one day. we were having a meeting about it to energy policy. the russian said, well, as we understand our oil and gas fields are to close the behind, but no foreigner will ever own russian quayle and gas. so we are going to buy the technology for westin will accompany. i had been director of the chevron corporation. i said, don't you understand that actually in their technology. they're not trying to sell to a technology that is really a point. then he said to my you still a director of chevron? i was secretary of state. in russia, the deputy prime minister was also the chairman of gas corporation. so states and economies and politics and personal fortunes

all live together. by the way, it was a paramount a political violence. now that mr. patten has decided he is the once and future president of russia, i think the chances that russia is going to break out of that and build on the other strakes that it might have, including a very smart population, those have receded. i think unfortunately how russia will not find it greater strength in the international economy. it is pretty much an economy dependent upon the price of oil. >> let's go back to the arabs praying. what do you think the lessons are? >> a authoritarianism is not stable, simply not stable. men, women, and children don't have a way to chase their circumstances and chase their government peacefully they will do it finally. when we were in romania we learned of something that i have

no called the charges come moment. the dictator of romania, and in 1989, the revolution was going on in poland and hungary and czechoslovakia. he went into the square and was exhorting the romanian people. all of a sudden one old lady yelled liar. then ten people and then 100 people and then a hundred thousand people are yelling liar . all of a sudden, he realizes that he better get out of there. something has gone wrong. instead of delivering him to freedom they and military officer delivered to their revolution and their sq steve executed. that is when fear breaks down, either an all the ills liar or a soldier turns the gun away from the crowd or it a tank turret is turned away from the crowd and then all that is left with a dictator and his people is anchored. that is what you have the arabs pray now command that is why

authoritarian is of is not stable. >> what do you think about leading from behind as the multilateral coalition? >> i don't mind will slow coalitions. i'm sorry, it's box erotic. it is. you don't lead from behind. and i actually think, sorry that the use that phrase,. >> let me ask you but a domestic issue. i actually share your view. conversations president bush about the failure of immigration reform. how serious do you think that issue is for the next presidential debate that we have? >> it is essential. let me tell you why. you get to go out in the world, see what people admire what the united states. there are lot of things that are not admired periods of the one thing that is overwhelmingly

admired is what i would call our great to my you can come from humble circumstances and do great things. that has actually led people to come here for generations from are around the world to be a part of that. it is why we have asian-americans and mexican-americans and german americans and indian americans. it is because people, the most ambitious people have wanted to be a part of that. now, i don't know when immigrants became the enemy, but if we don't fix this we are going to undo one of the greatest strengths of the estates because the only thing that keeps us from europe and japan is immigration. and so i am a major proponent of comprehensive to ration the reform that first and foremost -- [applause] [applause]

first and foremost part -- recognizes we have people living in the shadows. we are not a country that actually wants people to the be afraid to take their sick child to the hospital, and i worry that the state because the federal government has not acted a study in a patchwork know of emigration policy when really what we need is a federal policy that is true to ourselves, true to our laws, but also true to the the absolute fact that the united states of america was well served by the grief people that we are. >> three quick questions -- [applause] [applause] wind this up. next call, you have been invited to be the moderator at the

central debate. the debates the ms. foreign policy. what is the first question you will ask of the candid it's? >> do you believe that america has an exceptional role to play in the world or is america just some 80 of the country because if america is any other country you have a right to ask the american people to sustain the sacrifices that we have had to play the role the we have on behalf of the international community for no better than 60 years. and so why it is an america exceptional? [applause] [applause] >> second question, even though you are not responsible, they can't officially like to up anymore, what keeps you up at night? what are the things that you worry about that we ought to worry about?

>> the list of terrible skin, iran, pakistan. i think that we don't pay enough attention to what is happening on our southern border, and if you live in southern california or new mexico, you know the drug cartels of a lot of the space between northern mexico and the southern border of the united states, which is very dangerous. last year there were -- two years ago there were 5,000 murders of officials, mexican officials, quite sad. the past couple of years. what mostly keeps me up tonight is the question of whether the united states is going to read -- somehow to the internal repair that we need to. i worry that we can't seem to get our entitlements under control. i worry we can get our budget deficits under control, emigration policy, the fact that in k-12 education i can look at

yours it coded so whether or not you're going to get a good education. that is not just wrong, it is actually probably going to undo us more quickly than anything the chinese could ever do to us because if we have people who are unemployable, and they will be of employable, they will have to live. no other choice. you will continue to have a situation of its 30% of the people to take the basic skills test to get into the military cannot pass it. it will pull us apart as a country faster than anything else, and if we are not confident we will lead. and, so, that is probably the one that really keeps me up at night. >> here is my final question. you have a choice between running for the senate in california, being a university president, are being head of the national football league.

[laughter] what is your first pick? >> that's no contest. well, i used to want to be the commissioner of the nfl, but i told roger, you know, when i was struggling with the iranians and brushes every day, and your job looked pretty good, but from our the california it does look so good the more. and these days, and i have to say, these days, being a university professor at stanford university where the stanford cardinals are having quite a special season. you know. come on. you know what the special seasons are like. you have had plenty. let us have one. that is really the greatest job in the world. >> they do, madam secretary. [applause] [applause] >> that was fun. >> that was great. >> for more information about condoleezza rice visit hoover

got organ searcher name. >> for more than 12,000 members of the professional air traffic controllers organization walked off their jobs with the federal aviation demonstration on august 3rd 19811 shrewd analyst noted that the illegal strike had been in the making, almost since the moment that the unions founded in the 1960's. was the inevitable choice of this journalist because most of the 12 year existence appears to have been preparation for this woman. the controllers have such a long history of militancy before 1981 that it was not surprising, in some ways, that they became the first union to stage a carefully choreographed and planned nationwide strike against the federal agency. yet another journalist was puzzled that white-collar

workers with what this journalist called a keen appreciation for the professionalism of their calling that workers like this would strike against the government. newspaper columnists and jimmy breslin made a similar observation as he watched the strike in the family gather on long island to rally two days after the strike began on august august 5th 1981. at precisely the moment when there were about to be fired for defying a deadline set by president ronald reagan to return to work. he wrote, at the moment that there were supposed to be fired an order of the present these members of suburban, white america , all these air traffic controllers and their wives and children became silent. now their fists shot up into the air.

what the surprised columnist called least oakley carmichael salute. the 60's were long gone, you used, but here he wrote, 13 years and more later suburbanite america finally catches up. here were people from the north babylon, l.i., shooting their fest -- this into the air in protest against the government. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org we talk now with local birmingham author marjorie white, the author of a walk to freedom, a collection of photos and the civil-rights era in birmingham, alabama. >> the alabama christian movement for human-rights. >> well, it was the movement, and the movement was bethel. this is where it began.

the windows of this church were 100 percent behind everything that he did. the movement, his office was up and the arun. the church secretary was before him, the secretary of the movement came here. all the members were all behind everything that happened in the movement. >> any church that was involved in the 50's and 60's, a challenging series of laws was subject to be bombed and intimidated and harassed. so bethel received its fair share of such treatment. it was bombed three times. the bomb christmas night, 1956, it fell down on top of. they walked out unscathed, and that was the moment which someone in the congregation, there were gathered outside and

said the lord saved the rev. to lead the movement. bethel was bombed again. it was thought to have been an intent to destroy the base here at bethel. i'm not sure why they wanted, but they did. but bombing of the churches where the movement that intimidation of members was a regular occurrence. the movement, which was organized when the state banned the in a acp from operating in alabama, met every monday night in a network of churches, 60 churches scattered across the working-class areas of birmingham. it met in these churches so that it could tell the stories to inople, sure what was going on