customers and when they think of signed copies, they think of us. and those bookstores that have found their niche in children's who can talk a children's language have customers around the world. we provide electronic books and we sell electronic books on our website. it's really easy. we just click. we don't have to do anything. the american booksellers association does all the heavy lifting. but it's a minor part of our business. our folks literally around the world have become accustomed to the product, the book, the bound book that's signed by the author. the author who wrote that book, wrote in your copy. there are many bookstores around the country who are the very core of their neighborhood or their little part of the city. and that's where folks congregate. so i think those two areas of

book-selling will be around long after we're gone. >> now, martha menchaca talks with booktv about her book, naturalizing mexican immigrants. professor menchaca was interviewed at the university of texas at austin as part of booktv's college series. >> and now on your screen is university of texas professor martha menchaca whose book is called naturalizing mexican immigrants. one of her books i should say is called naturalizing mexican immigrants. she teaches anthropology here at the university of texas. professor, when were the first large scale immigration of mexicans into the united states -- when did those occur? >> okay. since 1848 when the border was formed there was always an ongoing movement of mexican

people. but it's not until 1910 that we have really large scale immigration basically due to the mexican revolution. but even then it had already started in the late 1990s due to a lot of economic agreements that that the u.s. had with mexico that really impoverished the mexican people. and when the economy is bad in mexico, they begin to migrate. >> and you focus on texas. what was the reaction in texas to the large scale immigration? >> well, in 1910, it was very negative because of the large number of people that came in. before it had been a trickle so as long as they stayed in the san antonio and south texas area, they welcomed it. but by 1910, with the mexican revolution, they started coming in very large numbers and, therefore, it was very negative.

there was the women's suffrage or the suffragettes in particular were very concerned because -- that they feared that the children were going to be going to the schools. and then that's when women get very concerned. also, the government wanted border control along the u.s. mexico border because they felt the mexican revolution was going to spill over into texas, and they did have major concerns because when there was fighting in mexico, texas was closed and also it had a very long history of the mexican immigrants coming in. so the -- before 1910, about one-half to two-thirds of all immigrants were in texas so this was a natural area to come and emigrate. >> now, you talked about the mexican revolution of 1910. what is that of that era? >> well, this is the

administration which was basically a dictator. he was -- he had control of mexico from 1884 to 1910 when he was forced to leave. and what he wanted to do was modernize mexico and bring investors into mexico to basically -- to make mexico more similar to the u.s. and to europe. so he was -- he had good ideas. the problem is that he believed that the best way to bring investors was to do away with labor rights, to give them land grants or just -- so that they would invest and at the same time ensure that they had a labor force that would not protest. and many mexican people who just lost their land as a result of this or did not want to live in this type of society chose to

migrate to the u.s. and so that -- so that takes place from the 1870s until 1910 when mexico has its revolution. >> what was the border like at that time? and i'm thinking about the rio grande river and there's crossings today and some fencing. what was it like back in that time? was it wide open? >> it was fairly wide open. you had various areas that people had traditionally been coming through, ranches, ports of entry. but basically people were coming in through -- through various ranch areas. and whenever there was roads, it's not until much later, 1924 when the u.s. begins to deal with general overall federal reform to deal with immigration from europe do they begin now to make the border more

professional and establish the border patrol and sent border agents. but it was very -- very fluid. >> was the word "illegal" back in that time to describe the mexicans who had come over the border? >> no. the term "illegal" really becomes popular after 1965. we have federal reforms of immigration, 1965. and then the western hemisphere was active in 1974. and what the u.s. tries to do is regulate world immigration, but the problem in 1965 is that they finally sent a limit to the immigration from the western hemisphere. before that, it had been completely open. so you had a long history of

allowing and sometimes encouraging mexican immigration. in '65 when it's limited the chain ends and in 1974, you basically have a limit of 20,000, which even the immigration service stated for mexico it's unrealistic. so at that point this is when we really begin with the era of the undocumented. and the legal infrastructure was not there any longer to allow newcomers to come in and come in legally. >> how is the guest worker program been developed and changed over the years? and when did it begin? >> okay. well, the earlier programs begin in 1917. and in the 1920s, but they're small. but the large scale program began in -- during world war ii, and it was a program.

it was -- it was binational program to help the united states during world war ii because at that time the united states is a big hero in our history. they're helping the allies fight nazism in europe. and they have to feed a great number of people. and so a lot of the young men that are taken off to work -- that before were doing labor, you have an undersupply of labor of men when they left europe so the united states annex this labor program to bring workers from mexico -- for a temporary period of six months so that's when it begins. the problem -- it's not terminated at the end of world war ii. it's renewed because large scale growers wanted to continue, and it's not terminated until around

1964. >> was there backlash against the mexican immigrants coming into texas? were there incidents? >> in the 1960s? >> anytime in our history in the last 80 years or so. were there any incidents that stand out? >> yes. i would say that the period of the cold war was a very positive period and also during reconstruction when mexicans were welcomed more -- treated well. they emigrated. it was easy to naturalize. but in 1897, there is a social movement here in texas which is the people's party movement or -- it was a third-party or some people call it the populace party in which some individuals feared that the mexican-american and mexican immigrant vote was not to their benefit because democrats controlled texas in the 1890s and, therefore, the

republicans had very little control. and the people's party became a challenge to the democrats. and the problem was that -- because germans were also a very large immigrant population, they -- they voted democrats so that the people's party wanted to develop methods to make sure that the electoral vote in texas was reduced, and so they -- they launched a legal battle. first in the legislature and then in the courts to decitizenize mexican-americans and those born in the u.s. to prevent mexican immigrants from voting and the whole issue was that -- we all know that the mexicans are indians, from indian descent and they were charging that in the u.s., indians cannot be citizens or vote and, therefore, they wanted

to apply this to the mexican population but, of course, the federal courts came in and said, no, you can't do that. mexican people may be indian but they're detribalized people and the laws preventing indians from being citizens or voting -- we're dealing with tribal law and mexicans are detribalized people. it was a period of hostility of mexican-americans at that time. >> how would you describe the atmosphere today when it comes to mexico-u.s. and immigration? >> i think we're experience ago hostile time for people of mexican descent. in the media the idea is generally that it's against or charged against the undocumented people who do not follow the rule of law. but i think this allows this

atmosphere to apply to everyone in general. the -- what's taken place in arizona that really -- it affects also the legal mexican immigrant because they're not sure if they're undocumented or not. so there's a general offense of hostility, whether it's related to voting, that's another -- that's another issue. but i think it's something parallel to what we see in the 1890s with the rodriguez case. but one of the issues, too, that i feel is hostile is that since 1993 to the present -- to the present, we've had the birthright movement. to remove the citizenship status of u.s.-born latinos -- well, u.s.-born people whose mothers or parents are undocumented. and this has been going on for quite a long a while.

and here we're talking about u.s.-born children. and to decitizenize them on account of their birth, i think is very hostile. >> is a revised guest worker program a solution to the current immigration issue? >> i think for mexico, it's needed. to regulate the movement of labor. but not if it's just allowed for the corporations to take control of it because how are we going to ensure that the people that do come in are paid and treated well. during the program, there was the wages of the domestic farm workers were basically frozen. so are we going to see that same effect on the domestic farm workers that are already here in the u.s. so there can be adverse

effects for legal workers here in the u.s. but for mexico it would be a very good way of regulating it and also providing labor for farmers especially in areas like california where you basically have large agribusiness industries there. and it's a good way to bring labor. but i think there's better ways. increase the number of legal entry. that is one way of handling it. for the united states also to become involved in the mexican economy in terms of for giving loans, loan payments. ensuring that in areas where -- in the -- where we consider policies, a lot of us have found a lot of undocumented people are

coming from ruler areas where the agricultural economy has been devastated by nafta, by the accords. and the small farmer has basically been wiped out. what are they going to do? they can't find employment over there so they come over here. i think if the u.s. did some sort of agreement in terms of developing those economies where the agricultural -- the small scale agricultural worker has been devastated due to -- due -- also where the u.s. businesses have the factories, that these businesses be required to have some form of economic development for the local area. the u.s. can tax businesses that do -- that do business with mexico.

use that tax for the aid programs for mexico. so there's many ways. there's many ways. but i believe that one of the most effective ways is to -- is to increase the number of legal entries to the u.s. >> you talked about the brasaro program -- >> yes. >> what does that mean in english and how did that develop? >> it basically means hired arms. and the term comes from armed. so you're hiring arms to come in and do labor in the u.s. >> martha menchaca is a professor of anthropology here at the university of texas. what is the picture on the cover of your book? >> it's a boat of mexican

immigrants coming off. what i used is the comparison of two pictures, that there's different types of classes -- individuals of different classes coming in to the united states. one in thener, people just crossing the border, crossing the rio grande on foot and on horses and this one is people that have more money. they come in and ride the train. and in my book, i do examine that the -- how the -- how many individuals that were better off could afford train rides. and i examine the whole infrastructure of the railroad system connecting texas to the u.s. perhaps if there wouldn't have been a train system, less people would have come in 1910. >> martha menchaca, what are you teaching this semester at the university of texas?

>> at the graduate level i teach a class on oral traditions and history. which is a methods class of how to do historical research. but also how to do ethnographic research or obtain people's histories through field work and at the undergraduate level i'm teaching mexican-american indigenous class which deals with the racial history of the mexican-americans but it deals with that history from the archeological time period to the present and the emphasis of it is the indigenous past. >> and what's your background? >> i'm actually a mexican immigrant. i came here when i was 4 years old. i can't tell you my age. and i came during the time when the border was basically open. and we were welcomed, and there was a lot of jobs in the u.s. my father was sponsored by an

employer that wanted him to be here. and we settled in a little town in california, which i wrote my first book on that and the town of my experiences growing up there. >> was that the mexican outsiders. >> yes the mexican outsiders. and then after that, i went to the local university, uc santa barbara and for graduate work i went to stanford and immediately after stanford, i have been here at ut, and we love the university. my husband is also a professor here. >> martha menchaca, we've been talking with her, naturalizing mexican immigrants is her most recent book. thank you for being on booktv. >> okay. thank you. >> booktv is on twitter. follow us for regular updates on programming and news on nonfiction books and authors.