>> next, jeremy suri talked to booktv about his new book, liberty's surest guardian. the interview which took place at the university of texas at austin is part of booktv's college series. >> professor jeremy suri, what is nation-building? >> nation-building is the effort to actually get involved in another society and help that society improve itself as you improve yourself as well. >> who does the nation-building? >> well, a variety of actors but one of the points i make in my book is that part of nation-building is actually being a part of a process that involves bringing americans to another society, not dictating to another society but working with people in another society. so it's americans and citizens of another society working together. >> liberty's surest guardian is your most recent book and i want to read just a portion and get

your thoughts on this. nothing could be more american than to pursue global peace through the spread of american-style institutions. nothing could be more american than to expect ready support of this process from a mix of local populations, international allies and, of course, the united states government. >> yes. one of the things that is so quintessential american is that people can come together to make the world a better place and that it can be done in a representative, empowering way. people believe this instinctively even if this doesn't always happen. i argue in the book that's something that comes from our own experience at home. our society has and still is a nation-building project and we believe that it's possible to do that elsewhere and i embrace that idealism myself, i must say. >> dr. suri, how have you organized this book? >> i've organized the book around a number of case studies. the first chapter lays out the general argument but the general argument comes from our own experience during the revolution so i begin with madison and washington and the phrase

liberty surest's garden is from george washington and then i go through a series of cases, reconstruction after the civil war, philippines, germany, vietnam and afghanistan. >> and you use the word "reconstruction" throughout. reconstruction after fascism. reconstruction after world war ii. why that word? >> because i believe part of the american project of nation-building is to reconstruct other societies. empires believe that societies can't change that they have to be dominated and controlled from the outside. americans believe that societies can be rebuilt to be better for themselves and better for us. this is self-interest as well as altruistic activity. >> so on a personal level, do you support the concept of nation-building? >> i do. i don't see how we can escape it. in fact, i argue in the book that i cannot predict -- no one can predict the next foreign policy crisis. but i can safely predict that the next president will be involved in nation-building again. it's in our dna as americans. it's what defines us as americans. >> has there been a president who hasn't been involved in nation-building? >> not a president who actually oversaw a period of any major

american expansion. there have been presidents who have served in short periods when the united states was contracting and that's okay. there are moments we might be in one of those moments right now. but any expansive period when americans have gone out in the world and sought to expand their interests has always involved nation-building. >> when has it been most successful. >> when they are committed to the cases they are involved in and two when we have good overseas partners. and one of the questions we need to ask ourselves, are we going into a place in the world that we believe in? and where people there are willing to work with us? if we answer no to either of those questions, i argue in the book, then we shouldn't do it. we shouldn't do nation-building everywhere and at all times. >> where have we done it successfully? >> well, germany is the example most people bring out after world war ii. japan would be another one. i argue in the book those are extreme cases. most will not be that successful and we shouldn't hold that up as a standard. i think the best we can hope for is pretty much what we had in reconstruction after the civil

war. and in the philippines in the early 20th century, where we go in to a part of our own country or to another society that's undergone major transformation and we contribute to making the place a little bit better but it's always a muddy process. it's never short. and it always involves setbacks as well as forward movements. >> dr. suri, what about a case such as iraq where perhaps the u.s. spurred the change in society and now it's gone into the reconstruction phase? >> well, this happened very quickly in iraq in part because the traditional military part of the operation ended very quickly. and, quite frankly, and i'm certainly not the first to say this, americans were unprepared for what came next. i think there was a case to be made that we could have done a good job in iraq and maybe we started to do a good job by 2007/2008. but we went in without proper planning. and we went in unprepared for what we were doing. most of all, i argue in the book we went in before we finished

the job in afghanistan. what surprised me in iraq this is the case where the united states chooses to do two major nation-building operations at the same time. generally, we try to do one first, finish it and try to move on to another. >> what about afghanistan? >> i think we had a real opportunity in afghanistan. i argued in the book and i believe in firmly in late 2001/2002, the people of afghanistan from various tribal groups wanted something different. and they had a history of a functioning nation from the late '60s and early 70s. i go through that in the book. not a nation that any of us would want to live in but a functioning nation state. they wanted to go back to that. the bond negotiation process showed that. and we took our eyes off the ball. we promised nation-building but then we diverted all of our resources to iraq and i think we will long rue that decision. >> is there any place else in the world that the u.s. is nation-building? >> to some extent we are in libya and we should acknowledge that. we were part of a multinational operation that unseated a

long-serving dictator. moammar gadhafi was a dictator for more than four decades and we are working with our allies with a transitional council that's made up of various rebel forces. we are part of this process. to say we're involved in nation-building we don't have to do it through military occupation or we have to do it just ourselves but we are part of this process and if nation-building fails in libya, our military operation will have been a failure as well because if a new gadhafi arises then we wasted our time and wasted our assets. if we can contribute to a more participatory role, how can we not do nation-building. >> two of the other aspects that you say are needed are a willing population and international allies. >> yes. >> when have the three of those, besides germany and japan -- what have the three of those things coalesced well? >> well, they've coalesced in

the number of the cases that i point out. for instance, i think after the civil war, most of our allies actually wanted us to succeed. they wanted stability in part of the world even those who wanted more interest in the north america. in the philippines we benefited in other interests that saw us as a better alternative in the philippines to the germans or to the british or others. so we benefited from being the new kids on the block in a sense. and i believe in afghanistan that in late 2001/2002 we had a lot of those advantages as well. let's separate afghanistan from iraq. our allies supported what we did in afghanistan. our allies including the russians wanted stability in afghanistan. and we squandered that opportunity. so my point is, let's be attentive to what our allies will support us and let's take advantage of those opportunities. >> jeremy suri was a former professor of history at the university of wisconsin and he's just recently moved down here to the university of texas. what are you teaching down here? >> i'm teaching a course on the international history of the last century, what have we

learned from the wars and reconstruction and nation-building activities. and i'm also teaching a course on strategy and global policy. how do you strategize to run an organization or make policy in a global world today. next year i'll be teaching the american history survey, which i love. i love having freshman and exposing them to this material it's so much fun. >> on an american survey history course, where do you start? >> i start at 1865 we time to break the course around the time of the civil war. but i would love to do a year-long course covering both american history. i think there's so many issues there and all the issues that are old are new again. we're dealing with the debt crisis and we're dealing with questions of foreign activity. they're there in the eighteenth century and they are here today. >> he wrote henry kissing of american history and american foreign relations since 1898. why in that book did you start with 1898? >> well, because 1898 marks a moment when the united states really announces itself on the world stage.

and is recognized by other powers as at least being a major entity, a major actor internationally. so that's a kind of breaking point. but as i argue in my new book, the cold war is perhaps really the breaking point. >> did henry kissinger participate in your book, your '07 book about him? >> i did. i spent a lot of time interviewing with him and talking with him and getting to know him reasonably well. and he's an amazing figure. i have mixed feelings about him as most people do. but i don't think anyone who spent time with him can help but respect his intellect and his seriousness, and i share that respect. >> jeremy suri, professor at ut. his most recent book, liberty surest garden, american nation-building from the founders to obama. >> the c-span.org home page is now easier to use. the new design features 11 video choices making it easier for you to watch today's events live and recorded. there's a section on the home page to access our