this over with you. i am really struggling with this sander remedy was always a glass of urban because the debt is in fact what he really wanted but he felt he could never help himself and he needed her to suggested first. i love that story. >> why didn't chief justice roberts write the forward? >> because i asked him and he was kind enough to do it. it takes six months for me to get the forward from him because he read every word and wanted to make sure was all accurate and well done before he agreed so i'm very grateful grateful sam. >> claire cushman what is your day job? deanne druker publications at the supreme court historical society. i write books about the history of the court. >> what got you interested in the court in the first-place? >> well actually i was at "national geographic" agostino rider and warren berger called me up one day and said we are looking for somebody who is young, cheap and good to edit a book about the supreme court and

a a and i set up okay. it was later i found out those order of the adjective was wrong and it was probably cheap and good but it worked out for me. >> here is claire cushman's new book, "courtwatchers," eyewitness accounts in supreme court history, rowman & littlefield are the publishers. ..

>> he previously authored reagan's revolution the untold story of the campaign that started it all. that was the first book detaining reagan's pivotal 1976 challenge to president ford in the republican primary and also off third rendezvous with destiny. for the 1980 campaign revealing the behind-the-scenes story for the white house. you will not there is a consistency and a craig's book. [laughter]

they're both researched although this one was over about 15 months in this is 31 days did you are getting more detailed. we will have some questions then at open it to the audience. there are a lot of things different in 1941 and things that are still the same. the redskins were being referred to as the dead scans and then even still today talked about is capitalism dad? you talk about leading up to this and what did you find more interesting? >> america was a very inward looking country. that was a saturday it was

quiet in america. listening to the radio and then to say meet john doe seven and the international squadron. but america was looking forward to was somewhat prosperous christmas unemployment has dipped to about 10% which is the lowest it has been during the administration of franklin roosevelt. they were not thinking about war in the context of american men and women getting involved in the war

to make the world safe for democracy had done just the opposite to give rise too very undemocratic institutions in italy, germany, other places. we were well off we believe from two giant notions so be word distinctly isolationist. neutrality from the 1930's including one that prohibited american soldiers from levying north america. that is how we've passed smith holly and other trade acts we're very inward looking and very interested to get interested in the war that is the evening of december smith. >> i think you even mentioned on culture cigarettes were everywhere. [laughter]

and advertised everywhere. >> the average american smoked about 2500 cigarettes per year. and people smoked in movies, restaurants, airplan es, trains, train platforms, libraries, cigare ttes were very much a part of the culture and considered to be sophisticated. >> and radio was the major and a television set the time, i figure part in newspapers. no television ads. although the first television ad was broadcast 1941. that most of which were afternoon newspapers.

>> we also noted a culture that you start each chapter with headlines. airport coffee shop has a colored quartet. did that not also play into the interment that came about? >> but the whole issue is those our also injured by the fbi. eventually the excepted figures of 100,000 japanese but there was great fear in america after december 7th not only because of the

attack, obviously great anger because after the attack than japan declares war on america and this really offended americans sense of fair play. the roosevelt-- result warehouse had spied networks operating including this memo prepared on december 4th a 26 page memo that we found on the franklin roosevelt library. it goes into great detail about japanese espionage activities new york, all major military installations in the canals down and the hawaiian territory. >> great you stand on that longstanding question? >> no. i dug as far as i could.

similar to september 11 that there were pieces to the puzzle scattered out but they had never been assembled and even so even if they had come and nobody would have come up with the idea of the japanese. to do the attack on pearl harbor december 7th. we knew the straws or if the wind. the roosevelt white house knew that but they were increasing the militaristic invading east china and manchuria and signed the pact with nazi germany and fascist italy which formed a mutual defense treaty to the swarm the axis powers the three principal axis powers.

there have been more and more belligerent behavior on the part of the empire of japan. we were much jane very closely, not closely enough, but i want to read from the memo, page two, this is what we uncovered that says the focal point* of the japanese espionage effort is the determination of the total strength of the united states perk up in anticipation of the open conflict with this country, japan is utilizing every below agency to secure military, naval, commercial information to pay particular attention to the west coast, panama canal and the territory of a way. there were theories, speculation, then he or newspaper had a headline that said, the week before, that the japanese

attack expected this weekend for about the other areas of government had speculated of the military move but it and then to mass over 100 troops and. >> and then as the morning the bombs were falling ian pearl harbor, secretary of state was meeting with the japanese envoy but the negotiations had broken down at that point*. the japanese had sent to the 13th part of a long communique and basically with the u.s. policy and

diplomatic policy and essentially announcing they were breaking of diplomatic relations. and then to draw ambassadors without being a declaration of war. >> also the question is we don't mind on all three. >> a very interesting point*. the night of december 7th president roosevelt convenes a meeting at the white house with the members of the cabinet and the congressional leadership. one of the members of the cabinet was henry stimson the secretary of war, a very capable public servant. in his papers we found day draft of the declaration of war against japan and germany and italy. but the next day already roosevelt declared war on japan but it was clearly being discussed to be

considered because there was a draft of the declaration of war. >> but not a unit? >> they declared war on us. my assumption is it is interesting because japan attacks on the seventh. we declare war then they declare war on the afternoon. we declare auntie december 8th but in those intervening days until the 11 there is no national will no columns soar editorials or outrage to say we have to go to war with nazi germany fascist italy omega until they declare war on us. >> it is ironic because rovell -- was about almost immediately goes to the european theater as his

primary focus. >> in the days after the movie are now out more churchill was pressuring roosevelt to devote material and the arsenal of democracy first fined for the pacific later and there is some evidence roosevelt was more inclined to see it in two stages to help great britain and to take on the japanese. >> does that have to do with the current condition at the time? >> very much. we did not have stood to ocean navy severe moving back and forth between the atlantic and the specific and of course, the asia-pacific of course, they have done great damage stage -- great damage and

that was the principal target so we were completely defensive three eventually lost on, the philippines, hong kong, it -- singapore so they went after midway but then they went after them again june 1942. >> i will be glad to recognize the audience questions to put a hand up at any time i will catch you. i would like to go over a few people. what about the admiral? >> a true victim. recently installed as the head of the pacific and was

unaware, like getting more warnings from washington as was the army general, but in the days after pearl harbor -- pearl harbor scapegoats bring needed in the blame would either go toward calls for congressional investigation, i to know what happened and how did this have been? and quite frankly it would go to stem sen and halt in the navy or go to the has been and short so it is a political calculation people of washington are more politically sophisticated than these two military men

so eventually they were replaced by fdr and they both left the military january 1952. >> yes. and he had taken some preparations. obviously not enough that was very concerned about it to have planes up flying and is scouting out the hawaiian islands looking for possible ships coming yen. >> but you also point* out their role is on the same schedule at the same time. >> of course, the japanese consulate was there on oahu a beautiful location overlooking pro harbors are right there they could see the comings in goings of naval vessels and they could

see because the planes were sent up to do the inspection of the surrounding waters waters, every day at the same time. the japanese could schedule the fleet to come and close at the time the navy planes were under surveillance. >> please wait for the microphone and identify yourself as a courtesy. >> regarding the situation with the united states out murder in word how much knowledge was there in the country that the german and american navy were at war? there was a lot of fighting going on wasn't there an american cruiser? >> there were commercial and

naval vessels fired upon on the north atlantic. back in the spring of 1941 fdr had instituted help with churchill and upon that action they issued their shoot on sight order that was patrolling the north atlantic but the american people knew about it. it was not a spur to them to get involved with the european war in fact, it was going on in the north atlantic. >> of course, roosevelt ordered the naval ships to defend themselves. >> but not with public opinion. >> of the lusitania out what did not spur us into world war i either. >> we forget japan was

already a war a nation or it was part of the lexicon two years three months with germany and europe and we don't want to be involved. >> we just don't want to be involved especially committing actual manpower. >> how much impact does it have with the united states decided to curtail supply in japan was certain critical materials? >> there is a theory floating around to provoke the japanese into attacking us in one of them was the fbi had personally ordered

the fleet's move from san diego from the spring of 1941. but those embargoes, we did not want to send a shock to the economy but with scrap metal we stop shipping but that was in response to the invasion of china. it was not the other way around that our actions provoked them but we were taking economic actions in response to their militaristic actions. >> racially look to my right. [laughter] >> my question is come up was it a cultural thing that we've greatly a underestimated the japanese?

>> maybe that was a factor with surveillance that was not easy on an island thousands of miles away from the united states. we had no nearby bases to do flights all based on hearsay or second hand mostly. the military did their best to track the japanese ships and the pacific but we lose track of them but we also lost track of those ship movements as well. there is probably a little bit of that. it was the failure of imagination on the part of everybody in america to imagine a japanese armada could stop in the middle of the pacific to refuel then to steam up again to make its way all the way undetected. we forget it that pan am

flights between san francisco and the philippines, there were commercial vessels and fishing ships that operated there. it was partially the assumption that nobody could get away with the massive strike. but there is probably a little bit of the cultural aspect to that as well. >> any underestimation? >> the japanese bought into the myth that we really interested in creature comfort not aggressive warfare we did not have been matched -- national will. >> did take us until april. >> billy mitchell had

predicted a japanese attack on pearl harbor three he was off by a half hour in the morning. was batted issue where they took his advice or go back to the original documentation? to find any answers to those? >> no. there had been an analysis of the previous military action by bet japanese but what was noted was the case of the russian japanese war and that instigated a war with russia without declaring war first midday the blew apart the russian navy. as far as i know they never

went to the formality of declaring war before the actually engaged in it. there are other predictions of possible attacks but nobody could conceive that they would be that audacious to try something so risky. >> it wouldn't have seemed to attack the philippines we didn't have much of a naval presence with a minimal are me. would is there not much thought given the? that almost looks like there is the next target. >> as of december 1st it looked like there was the

encircled met around the made thailand and it did attack december 8th and that was a natural target. as was thailand because japan has no natural resources per se oil, natural gas, are rare earth metals are precious metals that are needed for the peacetime economy this is why the empire expanded out to plunder those resources that they need but the philippines were rich of natural resources and precious metals but govett was clearly targeted as was time and but among the navy men with they really wanted to do was a culture on the

part of the japanese so that it is true but they really planted to decapitate the british and military presence in the central and western pacific then have their region all to themselves without any interference from the allied powers. >> you mentioned one character? >> his occupation of postwar japan should have earned him the nobel peace prize. he was able to do it better and especially in berlin cutting the three or four sections which was ludicrous to lead to the division and

the most conservative say it is astonishing that churchill was there. not just roosevelts trying to take off eastern europe macarthur would not take any guff from the russians they tried to occupy the whole chain and he said if you do that i will throw the entire general staff and to present he could keep the russians from taking a territory but he brought in a peacetime free market economy and progressive changes and a true be remade the country and did a brilliant job that it but he made the mistake and if it -- philippines december 8th not dispersing the planes lined up wing tip to wing tip although it is even done in honolulu is easy from one

bond dropping to destroy many said he had not disbursed his planes so by mid december he has no air force to fight off the onslaught of the japanese air force that led to his demise in macarthur's retreat to a study of but the counter offensive was brilliant to bypass the strong points for a good douglas macarthur had his good points and his bad points but the good far outweighed the bad. >> another controversial figure, charles lindbergh. >> not the head but the most famous member of the move meant to there has been the mythology he was the nazis

sympathize there. he was not the patriot and america and and did not like franklin roosevelt's and he did not like charles lindbergh but there are many people who think of it as a right wing isolationist but by december 6 the america first movement been on the women are the left door the right the democratic nominee was a member and so was herbert hoover and comings in the communist activist for about the american first movement actually made plans to open in campaign office is in every congressional district to support the most isolationist candidate running for office with a republican nor democrat and

never many members of his own party who were strident isolationist. >> on that issue the mineworkers were isolationist but you indicate prior to that college campuses? >> there was some academics. it is interesting that along the coast and the city's among the intellectual class is coming there was more interest in helping churchill and great britain but that is because they were more democratic. they knew where fdr was. but then if you go down the middle of the country, it was more isolationist. >> you mentioned again come

of about winston churchill? >> they were really not all that enamored of each other although they have a lot and comment. john b. gem said it was the love of the sea and the strong drink that brought them to get there. his book is a brilliant exploration between the two men and they grew to become very fond of each other although churchill was more find of roosevelt he once said meeting was about was like opening a bottle of champagne and roosevelt once told churchill he was glad of it in the same decade. there was a respect churchill came to visit it was astonishing and big news. he came to america several days before christmas in

1931 did not stay at the white house or the british embassy but in the west wing left london by the blackout train then took a her wing flight, of a ship across the atlantic then flew from boston to washington and. all top-secret and it was never in the press. only on the need to know basis but there he is in washington and. winston churchill was a hugely popular figure in america as he remains today but one funny story is churchill he got up early bathing and was in his birthday suit and the president opened the door to his suite at the warehouse and. [laughter] they were both surprised.

>> >> this is ancient history. i know. >> if we could go back to general macarthur i know what truman thought of the nuclear weapons but what was macarthur's thought? to you think we would not have used a nuclear weapon macarthur would still have the capability to control the entire japan? would the russians have had more power? >> macarthur was personally repulsed with the use of the atomic bombs. a lot of people who thought

at the time to meshuga demonstrate by detonating in tokyo bay with minimal loss of life so they could see the awesome power of the atomic bomb. but the commonly held and probably true believe is that the war would have gone on for several more years. of japanese culture is such that to surrender to your enemy is the worst thing that you can do too be captive is worse than death. that is part of the culture that was dominant in japan at the time. but there could have been a cost of 1 million casualties on the part of the allied's if we go for the invasion to fight inch by inch to take all of the japanese islands. of course, truman never looked back. he never second-guess himself so there is probably

a lot of truth to the notion it did cut the war and ultimately save lives although i personally think true been shut tried to demonstrate without hitting a civilians in the first to give them time to consider the implications before being dropped on the city's. >> he still would have been a supreme commander and allied forces there. there may have been more resentment because he was a student of history. he knew that alexander and caesar and others failed in the conquered countries because the policies were tough on the local populace and they would not make that mistake to allow the allied troops to be cruel to the

civilian population. >> if it would have taken and of a few more years would they do moller? >> i suspect the daily declared war on japan after japan surrendered but they were part of the allies certainly macarthur would have been in the command of them and would make sure of that with fdr and true man but i don't know. good question. >> go to the day of december december 7 i found

interesting the bombing itself it is interesting to see hawaii at that time was on the half-hour different time frame so when the first current struck it was one of 5:00 p.m. the redskins playing the goals and people did not have cellphones and they would have press announcements and as you wrote as the rumor of war spread the seeds emptied one enterprising wife center has spent two was attending the game to get the dow at -- telegram top pros see 27 opposite the 25-yard line east side griffin stadium more in japan get too often is. the redskins ownership said using the piegza what was against the policy.

>> county times had that occurred? [laughter] but then today would have been panic with this all funds with the communication. go into how we did communicate and how washington reacted and never pettit-- rapidity and the extent of which the government took over. >> radio and one-on-one communication dominated everything. everyboby gathered around the radios that maybe set up by the radio repair stores which was not unusual. i remember that as a void. there is the radio on the sidewalk playing music for people were gathered around that in the hotel lobby. of course, than does the afternoon newspaper you did

not do sunday afternoon that with japan attacks. >> without pictures. >> it was weeks the people were not told the extent of the damage to tell weeks afterwards own a the names of a couple of ships leaked out and the destruction of several hundred planes nor were they told the extent of comedy been actually died during the attack not four weeks americans were told the full scope and the reason being that the roosevelt government did not want to let the japanese government know how successful they have been. but washington reacts extremely quickly so to order the roundup of the

japanese right here in washington. it is pretty much the armed camp military men were told to report in uniform to their base immediate the. roosevelt that afternoon is taking reports and meeting with george marshall and frank knox was the secretary of the navy chief naval operations meeting with his political people who was the press secretary guards are posted around all federal buildings. >> they go up with the memorial bridge. they are closed between virginia and washington and

the martial law essentially opposed very shortly. washington becomes the armed camp. the constitution and declaration because we were fearful favor taken out of the library of congress because we were fearful. >> but military assignments were always published in newspapers the. >> and georgia this is when he is departing it is all the newspapers. >> rather interesting. >> >> i am the kind of guy that comes to these but a couple of questions.

[laughter] one mentions the isolation of sentiment rather than the pro bourse sentiment, i would tend to think it is much less fayyad in a democratic party ambitions but more so full what is the right word? there's a lot of american college students that were communist that was a viable thing at that time. anti-fascism was more of a

factor. >> was it just one factor as far as the academy? to be more pro interventionist and others in america? certainly sympathy was a factor no doubt about it but it gallop had done polling in the months before december fully 70% opposed entry into the european war. >> i don't have my facts clear on this but a friend of mine is also of a somewhat of a military history talks about thailand of world war ii but with the threat of japan but they become allies. >> and the public government. >> the other objective is

looking for a shanghai shack for chinese nationals. so to go into thailand you can take control of the country and other resources, and cut the road. >> but also there was a greater threat to end in asia have a more natural resources. >> which they eventually went after but finally over 100,000 troops there is only one place to go from there which is thailand still meant something i wanted to ask i have forgot but i'm sure you feel the same way but those who questioned the use of the atomic bomb, look at the nature of the

japanese fighting the way they fought on iwo jima and okinawa which was japanese soil but they run average securely loyal to the japanese. that is how they extrapolated how we may lose in the invasion of japan. >> no doubt about it. >> you mentioned being a scapegoat and also the ad growth was in 1941 but yet admiral king was cml for most of the war. for their transitions of leadership that heads were cut off because of the wrong

time being because of all ye? >> but with very few exceptions roosevelt cabinet did not change. george marshall all the secretary of the army, but really the only significant change was campbell of the pacific but as it turns out roosevelt-- was about had at his disposable very capable military been eisenhower eisenhower, patent and kane and others that the marriage as great heroes. these men took leadership positions and roosevelt wisely stuck with them. >> i am with the heritage

foundation. with the wars in iraq and afghanistan we're familiar with the concept of suicide missions. in your research did you come across any fascinating in affirmation of the kamikaze pilots it and how they carried out attacks and elsewhere? how much of that was a departure of conventional warfare about war should be conducted? >> for the japanese culture to be a prisoner of war that is the worst thing you could do. death was preferable to be a prisoner of war. there were rumors after december 7 that the kamikaze pilots were used but they found no evidence of the organized kamikaze attack there were also reuss and

others subsequent battles. it was a part of their culture and the gentleman made reference how the japanese soldier fights to the death and the same with the japanese pilots prevent was a great honor to die in warfare. >> not he was that important but i want you to comment on the insignificance and secretary of the interior. >> he expanded his portfolio and apparently a fabulous public speaker. but he did take up and justifiably the interest of what was happening to the jews in europe and the only member of the roosevelt cabinet expressing public outrage of what hitler was

doing with his final solution. he was abrasive but also he had pinned to be right and was a good man. >> i cannot resist the quotes the mind of the commissar and the sole as described there were some definite characters. [laughter] >> more than i will attribute but the naval war college it was said the war was entirely during the 1930's and every move was anticipated with the exception of the kamikaze attack. a cultural difference were americans did not think that way so they did not include that with the board planning >> i'm glad you brought that up because in the 1950's

there was a book called admiral kimmel published by regnery. but the job of war gaming used to be considered for everything the marshall space one was a japanese attack on pearl harbor but they are supposed to think of every aspect of four fair in in the japanese culture there have been novels written about japan attacking pearl harbor that was very popular of the japanese military attacking pearl harbor. >> i do recommend "december 1941". it is a wonderful diary of veitch diary of that particular month back when the national debt was $57 million. [laughter] has pointed out on december

december 20th the brand-new serial was cheery oats and things were more civilized at the time please join me to thank my good friend craig shirley. [applause] >> set the stage for this book. what is it based on in take us through what the readers can expect? >> it is based on active duty halfway through 1977.

the reason that i wrote the book is i was speaking to my cousin one day talking about the diary of my life and he said you have done some of the people just get to read about. that is an idea. so i talked to my wife. she said you have done a lot of stuff. like what? just gyrating. just write each event like a chapter that you can figure out the time frame and cleaned up and somebody will buy it. cited -- so i did. i told people was writing about my experiences and they said i would remember doing things like that so once it was published i got

feedback from the internet to say this reminded me of the stuff that i did and got away with. it had the appeal for some young kid who joined the military at the age of 18 and 31 when i got out and i still meet people who say that is great. it just reminded me of the things that went on in. >> you write in detail the circumstances from the branch of the armed services and force is so could you explain how you ended up serving in the davy and in what capacity? >> i was interested in scuba diving but i put it aside by the time i graduated from high school and got into photography and in the dark

room i learned a lot of things i decided my own the auction to my situation was to join the military if i wanted to do something interesting. one day and was down at the post office but the only recruiter that was there was the navy price spoke to him. first class allen. i told him what i had in mind to quit high school and get out of town. he said don't quit. stay in school. i stayed the extra two or three months and graduated and went into the navy and the rest is history but i

did choose to be a photographer which is the closest thing that i could think of and later i became a diver. >> host: you talk about what people thought about military service in the sixties but how was it you then and how you talk about in your book? >> was where said the book after i got back from vietnam in 19,609th of friend of mine that i used to do to washington to take pictures of the demonstration, i could not believe the stuff that was being said about the veterans. they were portrayed as a drug addicts and things of that nature. later i found out basically

it was a bunch of garbage less suicide less drug addiction than the general population i did not think too much of the way we were treated and never did i have anybody spit on me or if they had i would still be in prison. [laughter] but it we hung around with people who were of our same way of thinking and we did not pay any attention to it for the most part. >> there's a lot of books written about individuals experiences during vietnam but what makes your heirs said apart? >> they stein information and feedback on the book to say this is not another book that is all about me, i give

people credit where credit is due. i love to help other people succeed if possible. there is some interesting stories. and i try not to get too technical so i put a footnote so it is fairly easy to understand but the first edition of the book from random house was poor quality. paperback, three or $4 and it is larger print for us old guys to read. >> but the event you have

written about? >> the first time i would shot that i can remember that you don't have to be shot at too many times to realize that is not nice way to spend those 30 seconds. it did not miss me at but in one case it did happen a fact that these guys we were working with, i was not impressed with at at all. i did not pay to the vietcong because i a did not get captured by them but i worked with people who hated said vietnamese but i cannot process that. i just felt they were in a bad situation. we were trying to help them and not very s