of heat from organized jewish groups and other voices. we believe he should have gotten a great deal of support because that's the only way that israel is actually going to survive as a jewish and a democratic country, is if it does achieve a two-state solution on that basis. >> palgrave macmillan published a new voice for israel, fighting for the survival of the jewish state. jeremy ben-ami, founder of j street s the author. ..

[applause] >> how is everybody? john took one look at the sermon says we have to move to seattle. this is great. well today is a very special day for me and i want to tell you why if i could. this is the 25th anniversary. this week the greatest concert i ever went to in my entire life. i was just a shade over 12 years old, growing up in new york city and i got tickets to go to madison square garden to see run dmc. [cheers and applause] and the opening night that night as a creepy might of her death. they haven't even dropped another guy, but run dmc put them out there because they were

on their label, a group called the beastie boys. and the beastie boys had skills, but nobody madison square garden wanted to hear the beastie boys. they started throwing things coming out at them to get off the stage because people were there to see run dmc. now i do i tell you this story? [laughter] i am well aware that she were here tonight to see run dmc and i am your resident beastie boys. [laughter] but i will keep my comments brief so john can get on the mic. it is so great to be at this museum, but as john and i have been traveling around the country with this book, we haven't just been going to and bookstores. we made a point to go to every occupation side in this country as part as occupy u.s.a. [applause] at what we go there, it is

amazing. it's always amazing to see people being born years, decades after the 1968 ball make it so excited to see john and hear what john has to say. if you think about it, and makes perfect sense why. at wal-mart in 1968, that image from 1968 is such an image of defiance, such an electric moment to do achieve mass but i will stand for what i believe in. i'm going to be bold whatever president might have to pay. it's no wonder people are still attracted to it. and of course the issues they were fighting for at that time, for racial and economic justice. obviously those are not issues we have achieved at this one in american history. we are not done with those fights and john speaks to that very directly occupy wall street the very first time i went to an occupy seiki stood up at the general assembly instead i am here for you. why? because i am you. i am here because 43 years

later, the site has not yet been won. we are not here for ourselves, but for children to come. and i had a powerful resonance with every person there. that we are thrilled to be perfectly clear that that mall that from 1868 still connects the people so strongly. but we wrote this book, "the john carlos story" because they want to set the history straight and let people know it was more than just a moment. it was a movement. more than a movement, called the olympic project for human rights. we want people to know in the 1960s, which these days seems to only get recognized when mcdonald's puts dr. king and a commemorative cup was actually much broader, much deeper and much more radical. so radical it even galloped into the world of sports, to the point of which the top athletes in the world were also part of the struggle. look at basketball.

he was the best basketball player at that time? you could argue as bill russell, part of the struggle. who is the best college basketball player? as football player, jim brown, part of the struggle. the best of everything. mohammed ali. part of the struggle. and of course, a couple years later, this merging of sports and politics exploded in women's sports. people in the aleutian chain, lacey o'neal, and donna devereaux now. it made sense that as long as you have deciphered salta platform you're going to say something about the world and about injustice. and this movement exploded in the world of track and field and exploded into the olympic games in the form of the olympic project for human rights. it was a movement and therefore demands the remaking of the international olympic committee appeared for demands they said you better meet these demands for every single african american track star will not show up to the 1968 olympics. we will not go unless our concerns are met.

what a powerful thing that was to say. like let's see how those metal accounts look without blackout dates. not so good. as they sat in their statement, why should we run in mexico only to crawl home? and the demands are not just beautiful to me, the press and, at a time. these are their demands. and these are so controversial at the time, but now you hear these and be like yeah. one of their demands was sorry muhammad ali's boxing title. he had his boxing title stripped in opposition to the war in vietnam. they said mohammed ali is the warrior saint of the black athletes revolt. two, disinvite south africa and rhodesia from the olympic games. these are apartheid countries and they have no place on the olympic field. three, hire more african-american coaches. u.s. track and field team dominated by black athletes. you know, number of

african-american coaches if you try to count them on two fingers you get one too many. there'd be just one. the last demand and this is where they openly, consciously and bracingly step in the crosshairs was they said avery brundage has to go as head of the international olympic committee. [applause] for those new clapping can be realized not only have just that was, but how'd they read. how does the ioc, the most powerful person in olympic sports. he also just happened to be in open fascists. he was the person who delivered the olympics in 1936 to hitler's germany. he was a white supremacist. he was somebody who is so out there for a curry was around back then he'd be like you're crazy. [laughter] and he also is incredibly powerful and the olympic movement and these guys said you know what? he's got to go. so they came up with a plan for the boycott. the boycott sellthrough for two

reasons. one of those is very good to the ioc caved in for the first time ever withdrew their invitations to south africa and rhodesia and the pressure worked. the goal spurt, news networks. but the second reason is more complicated. this always comes up when it's about trying to get athletes to actually do something for social justice had far too many people say gosh, i've been training my whole life for this one moment, for those 20 seconds on the track. i've got to chase that carry it. i can't give it up. and so the boycott sellthrough. at this point people at john carlos, tommy smith the others were faced with a choice. the choices do we just stay home anyway and the athletes of a broader movement? or do we go there and actually represent our movement on the medal stand. and we know what chose. so before the final race in the 200 meters, john carlos and tommie smith got together and said okay, what are we going to do understand?

we are going to wear blacklist to show our commitment to fighting racism. we are not going to wear shoes to showcase the fact we are bringing up the issue of poverty in the african-american community. people who can't even afford shoes. we're going to wear beads around our necks to showcase history of violence of lynching against people of african descent. and john carlos you can see in this picture in an incredible breach of protocol decided he was going to be up there with his jacket and said and what the u.s.a. on his chest covered by a black t-shirt. and he said he was doing that as a tribute to his people back home, white and black working people who he said their appreciation were not appreciated in u.s. society. so they came up with this great idea that there were a way to do this. of course there is one thing they had to do first. what do they have to do? they had to wait. it would be a pretty awful story if they came in ninth.

they say we brought these beads of gloves for nothing. you know, far less inspiring. and here is where john carlos engaged himself in what i think is one of the most dazzling feats of that classic pyrotechnics at her and also one of the most transgressive and rebellious feats ever. and people should go back and look at this race and see what john carlos did. john carlos at this time was in my opinion the fastest person on earth. he was running in track and field people can testify that's good. it is a world record. he could run 200 meters in under 20 seconds. it was amazing. so john carlos kicks off on this race but his mind is the thinking i've got to cross that line first. i've got to get the gold. his mind to think and i have to figure it had a piece this race. people go on youtube. you should watch it and see people repeatedly breaking the

cardinal rule is sprinting. the cardinal rule is you got to like orpheus and never let that. and john carlos looking back, looking back, looking back like orpheus did an orpheus and to for it. you could argue that giancarlo spent some time in, too with no regrets. so john carlos is constantly looking back limbers tommy? at one point he says, tommy. stop bsa and. does for the cameras. and then tommy kicked in, crossed the finish line first, looking over his left shoulder, didn't look over his right shoulder. and there is peter nehr meant crossing right when he did from australia and peter merriman got the silver, john got the bronze. so now is the time to do if they came to doing it on this medal stand. except there's one other thing they had to concern themselves with. the very real idea that if they got up on that medal stand, they

might be shot dead on the spot. and if that sounds unrealistic, that sounds like hyperbole to you i'm a pleaser younger back to what it was like in 1968 for a second. think about dr. martin luther king drop by an assassin's bullet. days before the start of the olympic games, hundreds if not as many as 15, 1600 students and workers slaughtered in mexico city before the start of the olympic games. these are things that john entirely new very, very well. tommy turns before they get up on the stand and says what happens if somebody takes a shot at us? and john says, you know were trained to listen for the gun. [laughter] and you nowhere fast. so we'll do the best we can. take it up there in the medal stand and do other choreography, peter merriman the greatest sprinter in the history of australia chose to wear patch

this epileptic project for human rights so history would record that he stood with them on that day and continue to stand with them every year for the rest of his life. much of his eternal credit despite all kinds of pressure to get him to recant on his actions on that day. and they stood up there and raise their fists as the national anthem began. as john said, he got so quite a nasty and you could have heard a frog caisson cotton. [laughter] and then the bees started and the anger started and they walked off the field and there is a famous shot of john and tommie turner professed in garbage and they paid a terrible price for what they did that day. we talked about at great length in the book. john suffered, kids suffered. the fbi was dealing him long after he was involved in any movement, just to let him know that he stepped out of his

place. he said he know where? that day in 1968 i call that my emancipation may because that was the day i truly became three. [applause] but just a stack to the first question, which is the question of why? why is it still holds so much power an electricity semi decades after it happened? by one recoded the occupied sites would read two meetings at the rooms filled with people born decades after 1968. i really think he gets back to the sense of looking power in the eye and saying, i will be free. i will not be broken. i'm never forget the night of september 21st this past year was the night in georgia executed trade davis. we are out there in front of the supreme court in washington d.c. and there is a young woman mayor who had been working and we

thought we were going to do it in troy davis had become an incredible advocate for his own freedom. he became a freedom fighter from death row. and this woman, her name is missy got so sad and she said sometimes i feel the one thing this country just cannot abide is a free black man. i think the reason why that image is so powerful is that you look at tommie smith. you look at john carlos and his fist up in the air and you know that if nothing else about mama, he is free. and with that, i give you the man himself,.to john carlos. [applause] >> you guys understand why this guy got to write the book. he's such a great orator. and now you understand why my pockets always have holes in it

as well. listen, let me try and give you guys a little overview as to who i am, how i came about and where i'm headed. so many stories being written about john carlos. some individuals had stories that they could tell, personal stories about track meets and so forth. and god has put me on a magical roller coaster you might say this by i read my room book is that if i was an outside person would be difficult for me to believe that one person can have so many exciting things take place in his life. but as david has been finding out along the way, a lot of people been checking and making a mint sega john carlos tell you about those trees in the project or to giancarlo study about the chicken strike? or did he tell you that the $40? all of these things in the book.

but i'm going to start off with this thirst. this is a power. the intimidated so many people, white people in particular, by using that phrase. black power. because when they use that word or phrase by power in the any people think the black power meant destruction. statue of liberty or ground zero, destroying america. it wasn't anything about destroying america. it was about rebuilding america and having a new paradigm in terms of how we can truly be what each and every one device did in elementary school and junior high school about the land of the free and the home of the brave. we all want to be great americans. but as young athletes we find something's wrong, something's broken wanted to take our time to evaluate them and take our initiative to fix it.

so power, before it was a face, it was an open hand. the open hand and congress people of color. when you did that humanity dead, that means people of color around the world and that encompasses all colors. and many sit back and look at these individuals, all of them strong, all of a clear vision as to how things can be better. one individual steps out amongst the five and say, i need to know this paddle because it's either this pedal i can make a significant change. and he reaches down and realize he can't move even a pebble by himself. then they step out and say the same thing. i think i have a better form than i could move this couple. he finds he has no better luck than the other one. then they'll get back together collectively come to one point in life, that we have a problem in society and if we come

together in terms of a forest, we become a very powerful force. together we can move not only that pebble, but we can move a mountain. this is what we're trying to illustrate to society when we had the right wing press that didn't like me, to mike l-lima had looked through the witness cannot or the way i talk a lot. but yet still, this hair, skin and bought, god gave it to them. at the same time he gave me other rights as a human being. i look at a lot of my friends, that's a young individual and that could have drugs was dropped upon them. i look at how families was broken up. i thought about slavery and thought about how they broke up families and slavery. send another to the north, father to the south cometh unto

the west and daughter to the east. some of them -- most of them never see them again. and then somebody brought it to the attention being what you guys did in america was unjust. they have to be some sort of restitution. let's create welfare and a lot of times social service. as a youngster i began to evaluate, what is welfare and what is social service? with another tool to divide and break up the family. because when i looked at welfare, my friends to be a social service and welfare, i remember people would come in and the first thing they would do is look under the bed and look and see if we see a man slippers under their or go look in the ashtray, looking for a cigar or look in the closet to see if they see a man's trousers or suit or a man sure. but then they would look at the women and tell her come you look like you're the man this house. we need to cut your assistance off. so that game plan was all over

again to divide and conquer because of the things you pick up along the way. but the deal is this. everyone sort of said the difference is how many of us had an opportunity to search our minds and realize that you've are going to make a change in this life that we live, we have to make a commitment. a commitment to yourself. if anybody makes a commitment can he make a total commitment, not a partial commitment. as i stated again and again, no woman has ever been partially pregnant. either you're pregnant or you're not pregnant. easier commanded or you're not committed. other things i saw as a young individual at these drugs who dropped upon in the white flight taken place and at the young individual you look at a fruit bowl and you realize that every ethnic group is right there in harlem getting a lot of real fine. we didn't have no gangs running through the streets.

we didn't have drugs running through the streets. we didn't have them coming out at night. there were no carjackers. but what happened with a lot of domesticated workers started moving in. so let's take the wife of society, let's have this meeting that didn't mean it was over, the next morning they loaded up the trains and was moving out of dodge. we didn't understand at that time why they were leaving. at the same time, we didn't realize that some took place significantly. because when it's here it was bootleg liquor called king kong and in my age they did no king kong was. it was a man-made liquor that makes you think of other day drugs called pcb. i can drink it i can fly. and they flew to their deaths every day. and then, overnight, just like the way folks left, overnight king kong last anything called hair on came into the neighborhood cometh not, that,

dirt. a nobody in my neighborhood knew had a truck or plane boarded day and in the process, i began to look at my friends and realize that maybe i was fortunate. maybe i was blessed because i had a mother and father that state mayor, strong, katmai family values going. my father was a shoe maker, had own business. my mother when she came and used to do her job and would go in and clean up the abortion offices in the afterbirth. i remember me and my brother used to go with her. and the timid utterance a mom, while you're doing this maybe you can go to school and be a nurse or something. my mom took me up on it. she went to be a nurse. so we had the family unit. but in the process i'm running around and noticing that most of my friends if not all of my friends did not have the family unit due to the strokes that came overnight.

the father was a junkie. the mother might have been why no what the mother was a junkie, the father was away now. or both might have been in that state. we didn't have made donalds, carl's junior, and an out cut any of these fast food places that that. and we didn't have a fridge. we had an ice box. we had a skewed because we take the ice that lasts the whole week. there was no food in the box. i began to look at my partner going to school in realizing teachers and have no concern about what's happening to their house. they just classified the dummies are troublemakers. they never took time to be concerned about the fact that kids are coming to school with no food in their bellies. no love in the household, no understanding as to what education is all about. and nobody giving a. then i began to look at the same

time about guys using drugs and running around. we are shooting these drugs? d.c. would happen to your father? ligature sister, man. where do these drugs? somebody which my father and said look, johnny is running around. my father is a certain individual came out to me and said johnny fay quechee running with these junkies again, i brought you in this world and i'll take you out. do you understand? so i read that to mean i have to be on my costs to find out why they're doing it, but i read that to make sure my father never found out that i was running and i was compelled to find out, why would you shoot these drugs? i went up on the roof one day they were junkies that they are and i said, why decoys to this? in the field junkies looked at me and said johnny, you really want to know? is that because i robberies

tacoma. massive death and you don't mess with us now. it looks like you just have an interest to find out why we do this. let me explain to you why i do it. he said i was young like you one time and i fell in love with the most beautiful woman in my life. he said we got married and had kids. when i were to try and get a job to support my family, they told me there is no job for me. it's woman to look down the street somewhere else. i went there was no job there. then he went to the other side of town they sent me a mother's no job because you're not qualified to do a job. you need to go to school. i thought he was right so i turned and went to school. but they told me i couldn't qualify to go to school. i can't get in the school. kanka do not school. kick it on other school. but some of them got through and made it. got through school. and those who got through came out feeling good. i went to school and i have a degree. it was a worthless degree like the degrees are worthless today. when you sit back and say you

know something you came for that job two or three years ago and we couldn't get the job. well, we still can't give you the job. i said why not? because you're overqualified. we can't pay you what you are worth. so the guy looks at me and says you know what it's like to be damned if you do a if you don't? he said now here is the kicker. my little girl came up to me that daddy, it's my birthday next week or do you going to buy me the address you promised me for my birthday because any one my age or older you know a girl didn't wear jeans like they were today. every little girl wanted a pretty new dress. you going to get me that dress, daddy? yes baby girl, i'm going to get you to address. he goes down the hall and looks in his pocket and there's nothing in his pocket that holds. you think you feel good? of self-esteem starts to

dwindle. next to his son comes home from school and synthpop, i just typed an i.t. teacher and he charity said if i come to school the next day with no tennis shoes i'm going to fail my p.e. class. i need some converse sneakers, daddy, can you get them? guess i'm going to get them. he reaches in his other pocket and has becerra wholesomeness pocket. now his wife comes and says he know we've been married 15 years in our anniversary is friday. what are we going to do for anniversary? guys had tears in his eyes. he said yeah baby, we're going to have a good time friday. knowing that he can't fill anyone's dream. and then it gets to the point where you felt the stream has stroup solo that when he gets up in the morning to brush his teeth are brushed his hair, he realized that guy in the mirror i do not like. how does a man not like itself?

god didn't intend for him not to like himself, but somebody set the stage for him not to like itself. and somebody said, use these drugs. most of you guys -- most of you, billie holiday, sings the blues. remember the scene with the bus is going to the south and billy saw the? the big cross burning that she was going crazy like what is this racism? they push her down, they didn't push push aside our mind of racism in the tree and then summoned kaman said billy, take this and help you forget it. that's the same thing that happened to those individuals that turn into drug fiends, dope fiends because they want to forget who they were, because they were not who got intended for them to be.

someone had a fetish towards people of color. this is why john collins started taking notes to the point i sat back amok and said there's no problem. how did i know this? because i saw a kid in my building whose house was not on fire, but just had a moment and a half and nothing left on the stove. she went to visit one of our friends. somebody pulled the fire alarm. they went into the department and as soon as he walked in the doors to the writer that should maybe four or five bedrooms and a bath. they came through a chopped up every piece of wood furniture in that house, every piece of close in the backyard and then main street and lenox avenue. i remember going insane path, why they do not? if other looks at me like sun, what is wrong with you? no daddy, come outside.

let me show you something. my father took the time to come. as a chimney fire, daddy. i don't see nothing burning. my father looked, looked at me and he says i've got to give my son financers. he's right. he went to the fire chief. when he went to the fire chief a laid-back. i didn't need to go see the cheese. i knew what the problem was right away. out of sight, out of mind. no one in the fire department represented me. no one had compassion to say man, we can't do that because they ever write just like you. how many black cops do we have in harlem? too. and god sent them here to make me who i am today. because i sat back and looked at this little guy called robin hood itv and any kid across the morning, a guy named robin hood. wasn't a black eye, was an asian

guy. it was a white guy. a little funny green suit on, with a hat, whereas in tights. but i studied this guy in the sky made me understand that he had the vision in the mind and courage to say, let me split pea and let me be fine in my mind about the fact that there's two laws. there is god's law and medicine and five. he said all be concerned about god's law barman saw? so he chose to go with god's law and i'm not concerned about the fat cat. i'm concerned about all the cats. i will steal from the rich and share to the poorer because it's the right thing to do. the reason they didn't have food in the boxes are used to go right over to yankee stadium and freight trains and hit those trains. now as i said, i had to be very

careful, they had to be diligent to help those that didn't know how to help themselves. go with eddie dean for three or four days. see how they talk to you on the fifth day. hunger is a bad thing. no one should go hungry because of the color of the skin. as a young individual, i wanted to be a swimmer, not just a swimmer but the best of them are in the world to represent, so i thought the best nation in the world. because i heard this guy talking that i'm going to swim the english channel. hip-hop, which the english channel? why's this guy swimming in these channels? is echidna chat? is echidna trophy? recognition? why's he doing it? on the best swimmer in the harlem bathtub. i'm going to be the best swimmer. is that how today's web when sharks in the water.

what happens when i have to go the restroom? i need to know this because i'm diligent about what i set my mind to do. he said that mcgough financier. but in the meantime i took in time to go find it, i heard someone on the radio talking about the olympic games. with the olympics pop? he says son, that's for the greatest nations in the world get the greatest athletes and bring them together for physical competition. he said they want to see who is more superior. they want to see what nation is more superior than the other. i said popp, how many black summers has america had? he said none. i said great, i'm didn't be the first. my father that they go to commit three years went by. he came to me and says i've got to talk to you. i said was that? because i hate to rain on your parade, but you'll never be a swimmer representing america.

and i said why, daddy? he did like this. he had his hand out and i thought he had a bug on them or something. i said what's the matter? he says son when you go to the area to the pool he said you and your boys got inside the pool and as soon as you all jumped in the water, what happened? it didn't take a second that she could see the picture them and all the parents jumped up, breaky, harry, get out the water. and i was very confused at the time because when they tell their kids to get out of water like something's going to roll off me and make him look like me and then i see other parents putting suntan lotion on them, on their face and back in the late on the beach that looked like me. it put me away. i didn't know what to believe now. so now in the process of going for others, god put me in touch with the guy occurred heard on the radio, first i heard of the ratio that was talking. now i went to the baptist church

and that the real idea that there's two types of people on the black side of town there is to do that looked like me, but people who click white folks. now i saw him who looks like me and my father. he came to the church and said listen, i'm not feeling well today. i'm going to let my son, adnan junior, give a sermon today. but when adam junior came out, he was a white man. i said pop, that's not his son. my father said yes, that is his son. i said no daddy, it can't be. that's his son. i said to him, but he's a white man. he says no, he's black. he said they have some fears get why people are black people. what the differences, all of them are not changing over because they are ashamed of their race. he said the changeover because they want a better standard of life. he said now some of them get a little overzealous.

he said, but this is a true black man. so i got to realize that we got this going on and then i heard this guy on the radio talking like mathematics. who is this guy malcolm x? i was enthralled with this guy. he was so prolific in a statement that strong of this character in the radio and i had to find out who is this guy because everybody else is going upstream, he was coming downstream of no hesitation. who is this guy? seeking now to be the teacher down there and the ruler down there. a lot of fathead time for the spin the bottle and chase the girls. i'm trying to christ and trench is to find out what he's all about. i remember going down 16th street and people in the front row because i don't want to miss nothing. what i heard on the radio was secondary to what i heard a live and turn to this individual because the way he was talking

in my mind he was blowing that lab. when i saw his skin was so fair i said he can't be talking like that with light skin like this. but he was proud of who he was. and not only was he proud of who he was coming he was proud to let black people know that they should be just as proud as who they are. he was talking them about respect for yourself, respect for your neighbors. fight for your dignity and the dignity of your community. i love that. so i began to go to the meetings every saturday and i would make it a point to stay after the meeting so i could run with him and say, ask, can i go with you to your next location? he said if he can keep that. i had the job to keep up with them, but i would feed on the knowledge. i left malcolm down the line god called him and as we get closer to the olympic games, i get a

call on the telephone. i left east texas state. the school was integrated one year before it got there. i'm coming off lenox avenue in new york. it's like putting vinegar and alcohol together, some combustible thing. it was just bad. so i came back and i'm hoping my mother paint the kitchen on the phone rang. she says johnny, someone on the phone want to talk to you. as professor harry a mouse. he says to me, john, they're having a meeting downtown at the americana hotel. do you think you could breakaway? someone asked me to invite you to the meeting. no problem. let me check with my mom. mom, they're having a meeting. can i go? if they want you in a meeting you need to be there. i'll handle the rest of this. alright man, tell me where to come. i lacked in this beautiful lobby. my mother was a perfectionist of the furniture.

you've got to a five years before you can sit on it. i know what that's about. so anyway, i walk in a hotel and i'm looking and seeing all these beautiful sophia and i said i can get this from a mother, that. i'm just thinking about getting it all. but i let that floats my mind and then i went to the desk. i said i'm looking for sclc. do they ever hear? he told me where to go. i go upstairs and knock on the door. a guy comes to the door and he invited me in. i go on in. they offer me cookies, soda, say much, whatever i want. i sat down at some of these people look familiar. we see them on tv. but i'm still not not putting the.together in terms of where i am. and then after about 20 minutes, 25 minutes the door open and here comes a living legend walking out through the first thing i think my god, my mother

need to be the rock my pocket because doc or king walked out of the room. who would've ever thought that little johnny carlos would be in the room without her can. he was like god's first lieutenant. and when he came in, i realize right away that not only was he a fellow activist or administer, but if he wanted to be on "saturday night live" stint inapposite comic, he would've made aware that money because he knew how to crack the strokes and relax people. he relaxed me because he thought was shaking a little bit. i'm in there with the big boys. so he went on to make a statement. he said listen, i want to come out and support this olympic voip. i want to support the olympic boycott. i don't want to be in charge. i want to be second in command under harry edwards. we went on at the strategy about

what we're going to do with why and how many said that says out of nowhere that he received a letter in the mail in the letter said they had a bullet with your name on it and didn't have to wait long. get in my brain a big gun. so he said jeopardy questions? i couldn't wait to throw my hand. yes dr. king, i've got a couple questions. did you box? could you run? he said i couldn't play. as said by which you get involved in the olympic bowman? he said to me, imagine a boat in the middle of the lake and the waters calm. it does take is wrapped up the boat and what happens? they get vibration. he said absolutely. go out to the fire into the lake. he said that it wanted boycott is that rock.

he said if you guys chose to step back from the olympic games, the greatest thing is that you're not killing anybody. you are not putting anybody down. as a man, the woman you're making the statement, i'm choosing to step back. he said to me also, imagine what would happen if the black soldiers there's looking back i'm not going to war. will america be as great as it is today? i said that's heavy. put that in my little basket. he said to me, john, you said you had another question. yes, that you can, i have another question. you said they have a letter with a bullet with your name on it. why would she go back to memphis? and when he said what he was about to say, i used to wear shades and they didn't dilate like they knew dano. i pulled my shades down. i wanted to look in his eyes and not through no class. why would i look in his eyes, baby girl? why you think so?

now, not to connect. if a man told me i'm going to kill me, i'll be little shaky. i was looking to see if he was afraid to die. he was solid as the rock of gibraltar. and not only did he not had an affair, when you look, you know and love is in your eyes. he is a society so much that he was ready to give his life. when you look at a picture, you see the same love. when you look at rosa parks who see the same love for paul roberson, the same that. my hero, john brown. when you look in his eyes to see the same love. these individuals made the ultimate commitment. they did make a partial commitment. john collins to damage the partial commitments in 1968. it was partial i wouldn't be here in 2011. my days as done. but my day is not done because the were we started years ago, a longtime before 68 still goes on today.

1968. [applause] outsell you guys about the supplies in a minute. all right, all right. they've got a time schedule, so we've got to keep up with it. so anyway, in 1968 when you sit back and think about it, we were young and idealistic as david said and we had a paradigm in terms of how can we make society better? were elected individuals that that stood up in all those individuals died. it's like there is one individual who step out to the puddles. couldn't do it by himself. that irking died, rosa parks, all of them died. malcolm died. because they was out there by themselves. it was the leaders by the cells. and then we said let's get these individuals together to try and make them understand this thing called the olympic movement is

15 minutes in the sun for any young individual is not 15 minutes. if i ask most of the guys in there, who won them at the last olympics? you couldn't tell me. i asked you to olympics ago, you couldn't tell me. so i said he got 15 minutes. so idealistically we decide to get this theory going to make it on the train and has some discussion. man, i don't know about boycotting. i promise my church i was going to win. i trained too hard. my mother's expected me to him. i can't give up my opportunity to go to the olympics. police said look, we want to do is try and have some dialects of the knesset exchange and tell you what you can do greater in that 15 minutes. okay, i'm willing to do that. so we get on this hypothetical train and start going down the tracks. now the people outside the train or waiting cottbus america. russia, cuba, bring home the gold. they was all excited.

we come to the collusion that were going to attempt to make this olympic boycott possible. everybody understand what going to make a better situation and make society better. everybody was at the crossroads in life, just like you face your crossroads at one point or another in your life. now we got the thing where we say ok, we're in the same page. we're going to attempt to do something collect delete and we come together as a unit. and now that we said we're going to do this, let's stop the train. potential of the boycott or black athletes are doing and pathetic to the cause. 1960 olympic toy cow. on the way down the train. now we start the train up again. all those people got tep calle and moving are gone. why? because the way america west from what type of dog boycotted olympic games. i do want to hear that.

you might suppose to be concerned about yourself. you're supposed to be concerned about america. i say be concerned about me. now we sit back and look and say okay, all the people out there waving is gone, that someone replace them. what replace them with fire bombs and missiles they shot at the train. that's 43 years that tommie smith and john collins and peter norman were out there. 43 years we dealt with bombs and chaos and mayhem. but many sit back and say here we are 43 years later and now life in chains from the villain and all of a sudden we was dead and where the hair is now. people want to step next to us. i want to take a picture with you. hey man, i think when i put that statue for san jose i deserve to have it work with my name on it. i said to them, wait a second.

i love you eternally. i said i love you less than yesterday that more than tomorrow. okay, i'm wrapping it up. i said to let me tell you this. as long as i live, i could never let you take a picture with me. i could never let you put a brick down there. because if i allow myself to do that, that is like when i was a kid in school looking for my history, somebody white washed it out. i couldn't find. i was going to frederick douglass junior high school because they had not been there. so somebody white washed my history. i took a private you get in the picture right now, i'll be whitewashed in history. now, i deserve it. i was there with you other way. we ran track together. i said you did? to me a favor. open up your share. show me the burns on your chest. show me the burns on your neck or put up your pant leg and let me see the burns. i don't have no burns. i said absolutely.

thomas ripp, come up here. put your pant leg and went to the burns. open your share, turn your mac. is that humans seem i am let me show you mine. as we know the difference this? mr. smith made a total commitment. i made a total commitment. you made a personal commitment when things got rough you decide to bail. now you wouldn't come back like society. you didn't do anything to deserve to be rewarded for anything. but now you want to get in the picture? .never let yourself be the crossroads of life and be afraid to make the right choice. now for so many years. and 66 now and i could stay for at least 65 years of my life. i knew this theory. and the theory is that we have a tendency to be afraid to offend our presidents. you're afraid to offend.

if i get my foot and your neck and you can't breathe, you're afraid to come in tommie to get your foot off my neck and i see so many of them do it at the olympic games. i've seen so many do it in the business world. i see so many of the educational field. they sit back and they take abuse. they take jokes about different races and they're afraid to step up and say hey man, what your doing is strong. some say god bless you guys in thank you for giving us this opportunity to share with you tonight. [cheers and applause] >> hey, guys -- hold on, well done. everywhere i go, everywhere i go they always want to give me a pause. i don't want no applause. you understand?

god told me only to excommunicate one person. you only need one. i said why only one person? ito made john can you speak so good that she can put so much love in so much sunshine in one individual's heart that it radiate throughout the world. he said that's why they applied. but my attitude is being an earthling? i'm not here for the applause. i'm here to communicate. if you feel like you must applause, go ahead in your pocket and throw they are. [laughter] >> we attacked the people want us questions to dr. john can a missile, both of us, their microphones right there. people can lie not. we have time for a couple questions. he met john is going to run to the bathroom or a quick.

there's no shame in that. he did say he was an earthling just now. while people are lining up, just a couple pieces of interesting news for you. first of all we got a notice today that the book that has been out just about a month is being reprinted. it's going to reach his second brain already. [applause] first printing in the mud is wonderful. the second piece today had enough people heard this, but dr. john was on cnn this morning in the world's shortest segment ever. it lasted two questions before they cut them off because they started by saying john carlos, first about code want to talk about the occupied movements even going to. you were involved in the bat power salute. he said stop right there. it was in a black power salute. it was power of the people coming human rights are everybody. that is the first thing. then she goes okay, but we wanted to ask you also if we

could, back then in 1968 before we talk about the occupied movements come you paid a price match her medal taken away. stop right there. that's propaganda they've been spreading for 43 years. now it's your questions? click, they cut them off. just like that. in the aftermath of that, have you ever heard of dead spin.com? it's the most red sports website. big headline on dead spin.com. cnn's awkward interview with john carlos. six hours later, call from cnn. we please come back on so we come back on so we can do the interview properly? so it's a beautiful thing if you get the chance to go online and see it. so i just wanted to give you guys a bit of an update about what is happening. in the last thing, just giving you an update in giving johnson time is there's been a lot of great articles about the book

goodwin john spoke at occupy wall street was in "usa today," and "new york times," i'll pay dinero, the headline in "usa today" with olympic protester helps occupy wall street, which is pretty cool. and that was amazing to have that happen and had this occupy a movement while the book has been out it has been a beautiful thing. hey john, you are back. [inaudible] >> wears the black love? >> i hate to say, mr. smith, those are his clothes. [laughter] i thought mr. smith would have the kind of society same income we made history you keep the glove. he didn't have that in a fire. so now 43 years later, someone else have the clothes. he don't know where they are. so again about the cause. it's about the theory of the glove. i had the clout of babies and put it on ebay right now.

>> so no questions. >> i just want to see thank you for what you did in 1968 because what you did in 1968 allowed me to go to state in 1971. and eric dawson, we are part of a social experiment that i'm sure came from an effort that you guys did a tommie smith, robbie ray smith and people like that in 68, where they have 50 blacks from all over california crime and part of the gop program, equal opportunity program. we are part of that program back then and i'm sure a lot of that from you and dr. jeffries and people like that did in 1968.

so i just want to let you know how glad and how proud i am of what you did and how you hold the doors for people like us. and you set it for us and i dedicated my life to giving back the young people because i know they go up and shoulders like yours. so i just want to say thank you. >> thank you very much. i never did that. it's in my heart forever. yes, sir. >> what's your first name? >> carlos. >> that's the best name. [laughter] >> in 1968 -- [inaudible] >> you started at the 50-yard line. >> i'm going to ask this question.

i was 16 years old at this time. [inaudible] why they didn't allow you to meet with us, with the leadership of the student body for mexico? what was the reason? >> i'm going to tell you about that. it's great that you asked that question because it's very important question. first of all, got blocked us from coming to see you. it wasn't that they did not come because we was ready to come, but god blocked it. and we, for 30 years, before the government to release the confidential information. we got the confidential information after the united states. for 30 some odd years, professor edwards fought them to a mail to release the report.

they had a plan that day was going to kill those fools down there in mexico city and the plan was to have us come down to mexico city to join up with you. as he was just asking why you didn't come and kill us and it would be done. and for most of the guys that don't know, they said they killed 50 students. lie. then they could kill kill a hundred 50 students. bigger lie. not a seeker and 50 students. still a lie. they killed close to two dozen individual students done in mexico city. they killed so many they took them in the resentment they could not put any more in the furnace and they put to rest in boats and took them to the ocean and dumped them. and then they turn their guns on this man here in his comrades and ran amok into the mountains and told them don't come down out of the house until these games are over. these are the atrocities that people have to fight about. and then he sat back and say why

aren't they here 43 years later? have the population hasn't even heard of this. it's game. for instance, george foreman is a very, very dear friend of mine. i can say like a brother. and when george got the flag and waved the flag around in the ring, there was a guy who gave him the flag, the head boxing coach. happy king came after the demonstration of said john, i can't see any proof which he did. i can't say i disagree with what you did. what i can say is you're going have to have a way to feed your family. i have a plan. ..

>> all they had was that one dude to come approaching us, and everybody in that boxing arena would have jumped on us. i don't be concerned about me, but i'm always concerned about the women in my life. so i just say thank good that you protected us and kept us away. no disrespect to those young students, but i say thank god you kept us away at that particular time because i had to be here now to talk about just what you're talking about. >> thank you, brother. i witness this great history making. >> thank you, sir. >> to history. >> thank you. [applause] >> yeah, okay.

long as you did that, i'm all right. let me ask you this, though, the meeting that you spoke on that dr. edwards, was that because i can remember lee telling me it was the meetings to san jose state was came to, and it was kind of discussed where it was kind of a understanding that there was going to be demonstrations if you, in fact, went to -- let's say there was going to be demonstrations. but there were different things talked about. and i think lee and them had the grace, and different people did different things, but why do you think the glove was so huge? because i don't, you know, and i think it had something to do with the black panther party. >> i don't know, man, because i told everybody at that time, man, i'm a catholic, i ain't no black panther. because i believed in the theory any man's an island within

himself, and i said that then, and i'll say it today. relative to the glove, the glove was there because tommie said he had the gloves. for the fist time in the history of the olympic games, that's the first time they put it in technicolor worldwide. it was going around the world for the first time as well. we wanted them to have no misunderstanding as to who we were representing first, was black people and then america. simple as that. wasn't about the black panthers, wasn't about john collins left his gloves home. i didn't have no damn gloves. tommie had the gloves. [laughter] relative to what you said in regards to lee, lee's absolutely right. we had a vote on this hypothetical train -- >> right. >> and when they devoted they wanted to go to the olympic games, it was left every man would do what he had to do once he got to the olympics.

relative to why we got together to do that demonstration, i really think, man, based on my religious beliefs, based on that vision that god gave me when i was a kid, god rolled up his sleeves and said i'm gonna handle this one. and he brought all the pieces of the world together, all the sand, and he reached down, and he pulled tommie smith and put it on the table, peter norman, john collins, threw it -- john carlos, threw it on the table. now, he protected us. when you sit back and think about the young white guy there, peter norman, they could have had 16 million guys out there and not one out of that 16 million would have had the nerve to step up and do what he did. you think about peter norman relative to -- let me out it like this. when we got back from the games, tommie smith lived here, i lived there. america lived all over us.

but we said let's go over here and kick tommie smith's butt until we get tired. let's kick carlos' butt until we get tired, too, and they switched back and forth like a pinball. but australia at that particular time was parallel to south africa in their views about the human race. they was just as prejudiced toward the aboriginal people or people of color over there as they were in south africa. now, peter norman stood on the victory stand, he stood there at attention. he didn't disrespect no flag, no way shape, or form. but just merely because he put a button on his chest and said olympic project for human rights, i stand for humanity and coupled with the fact that he stood with two black individuals, when he went back to australia, it wasn't no trade-off. they whipped him morning, they whipped him noon, and they whipped him night. they broke up his marriage, they

broke all of our marriages up. they drove him to drink, they drove him to nervous breakdowns, and eventually they drove him to breaking his heart. when they had delivered there in 2000 the australian olympics, they never even let him walk across the field in terms of acknowledgment, and not only did they disrespect him, he was the greatest and still the greatest sprinter that that nation's ever made or built. but he never denounced us, he never walked away from us, he never turned husband back on us -- his back on us, and he stood fast all the way to his death. 15 million individual whites would have come out there, and i don't think none of 'em would have done what peter norman did, but it just gives you an indication of the crossroads we have to deal with that say we can no longer allow these things to happen. >> and -- that was great. [laughter] just something i heard today, i

mean, that one of peter norman's last acts of his life, people have seen the picture of the statue at san jose state, you'll see that the silver medal area is empty. and when john saw that, he was ready to back out altogether because he thought it was a disrespect to peter norman. and to the people at san jose, they got in touch with peter, and peter said, you know what? i'm fine not being there because that was a privilege for me to stand there with john and tommie and now other people can stand there as well. i'm only raising that because it says so much about peter's character, but i heard today there now is such a thing as occupy san jose state, and where do you think people gather? [laughter] that statue. and where with do you think they do their general assemblies from and speak from? that silver medal stand, so that's peter's legacy. >> well, you know -- [applause] it wasn't that simple, you know, about peter norman. when they called me and asked me

about the statue, i said, i don't want no bronze statue with green, turquoise pigeon poop. and they said, no, john, it's going to be a unique statue. [laughter] i got wind they was building the statues, but someone called me and told me, man, they're just building you and tommie. so i said, let me get in my car. when i got there, it was just like they said. they had built the statues, but over there where pete was, i said, what's going on? how come peter's statue not there? you and tommie graduated san jose state, so we're raising the money from the student body, so we're just concerned about tom tommie and you. i said, no, if peter don't go there, i'm not going there. one of them came up and said, well, john, peter preferred not to be here. so i said, whoa, wait a second.

so we go to the president's office, i say, hey, we need to make a phone call, dr. kirk. kevin. we need to make a phone call. he said, to where? i say, to australia. we got that call peter norman. he picks up the phone, what do you blamemy americans want now? i said, hey, peter, it's carlos. hey, how you doing! i'm kind of disenchanted. what's the matter? i understand you don't want to have your statue built here. no, john, who told you that? he said, let me tell you something, john, i love you until the sun go and come back, and i'm going to still have love for you. he said, man, only reason why i don't want my statue is there because i didn't do what you and tommie did, i supported it. i thought it was only appropriate that i would leave my space blank so that anybody that come from anywhere on planet earth that could

understand what you guys was all about and want to lend support, they can stand right there where i stood and take a picture with you guys. now, let me tell you something, tommie smith, i love him. tommie would have never did that. [laughter] okay? ever would he have done that. so i, i'm telling you that i have the utmost respect, admiration and love for peter long after i leave this world, man, because he's a true man. >> hey, man, i just want to tell you, it's been, like, ten years -- >> right. >> since the symposium. >> right. >> i owe you dinner. i'm real impressed with you did the book. i love ya, you know? and you know who i am now (yeah. >> yeah. so after this i'll talk with you. >> right on. right on. >> we've got time just to finish up the line there. how many people in the line? you got one, two -- >> three people.

>> three. all right, let's do these three. >> dr. carlos, a real pleasure. much respect for everything you did. i was 10 at the time. >> [inaudible] >> oh. turn on the mic. >> you said you were 10? >> i was 10 at the time. >> you look like me, i look like i'm your age. [laughter] oh, man, i'm just teasing. >> i know. so i was the youngest sibling in my family, and my older brother and my father were involved, i grew up in d.c., and, um, i felt like i was part of it because they told me everything that was going on. and so being, you know, loving athletics and being aware of the civil rights movement, um, you know, i was finally -- finely attuned to that moment, and the way you said dr. king described throwing a rock into a pond, that's really signifies perfectly that moment for me. it was like a metaphorical and a literal punctuation point to the whole civil rights movement. it was so impactful, it was so

meaningful, you know? i just want to say that. and also, i had a question. you know, one of the things that you guys stood for was, you know, getting the ioc to reject rhodesia and south africa from participate anything the olympics, and i'm wondering, and i don't mean this to sound sarcastic, but why didn't you demand that for the united states at the same time? >> why didn't we what? >> demand that the united states not be able to participate in the olick pip games for the -- olympic games -- >> i'm going to ask that because it actually, first of all, it was a concrete demand from the african people's struggles in rhodesia and south africa, so it was about an international, solidarity with an internationalist pan-african demand. it wasn't them coming from the united states and saying we disapprove of rhodesia and south africa, it was involving very real movements in the country. the second thing is, of course, we all know it's not a level

playing field in any country, the same way john carlos wasn't allowed to compete at swimming, as we talk about in the book. yet in rhodesia and south africa you had whole segments of the participation who were not allowed to be part of the very olympic trials of those cups. so it's not to say they're somehow worse than the united states, and the united states was in vietnam supporting all kinds of things that are absolutely head turning in terms of how terrible it was, but it was responding to very real movements in those countries and very real segregated injustices in terms of how they participated and how they contributed to the olympic movement. >> did you get it? >> i did. >> as long as he hit it. i'm going to make sure. >> he's a good spokesman. >> trying to help. [laughter] >> come on up here, queen. >> hi.

hello, is this on? [inaudible conversations] >> my name's mariah, and i'm a citizen journalist and a digital collector, and i was wondering how you feel about the way media's changed since -- >> come over here, come over here. come here. [laughter] >> that's a great question. >> i want them to hear your question. >> yeah. it's a great question. everybody should hear it. >> make your question. >> how do you feel about the way media has changed since 1968. >> how do i feel about how the media's changed since 1968? that's a great question. >> yeah, it is. >> well, first of all, let me just say this. we was totally against the white -- right-wing media. anything that we did, they changed the course of what we did. they told lies to people, they put out propaganda for years like probably 85% of all ya here think my medal was taken away,

mr. smith's medal was taken away. lies by the media of that time. they knew our medals wasn't taken away, but why'd they say for 43 years like if this young lady decides i'm going to be an olympic champion, but at the same time i have a compassion for humanity and i'm concerned about humanity, but they train her to go for that carrot, that medal. if she says anything outside the circle, oh, i got to be careful was they took john carlos' medal away. to hold you in check all these years by the plop began da. now, yet and still, here we are 43 years later today, i was on cnbc, is that it? >> cnn. >> no, cnn this morning -- [laughter] >> i told the story about what happened while you were in the bathroom. >> did you? >> yeah. >> oh, you gave it up, huh? [laughter] so what i was trying to say to this young lady is that the media really hasn't changed as much if they think that you

stand on your own two legs, and i stated to the brother earlier that i'm gonna, i'm a man with my own island. and when i stand on my own two feet and express who i am and handle fear for expression to what i feel to be the truth, then pull the plug on you. they can't whitewash you no more because they got live tv now, but they can still pull the plug. but it's all right. they can continue to pull the plug. they always tell me, you know, i'm the carrot -- i'm the horse that feeds you, i'm the cow that feeds you, gives you milk, my philosophy is, yes, you are the cow that gives the mil, but i'm the grass the cow has to eat in order to get the milk. [laughter] [applause] >> [inaudible] talk about your story today. >> how do i feel about how you talk about it? >> yeah. >> i am flabbergasted. i wish i could be your age again so i could live through this another 50, 60 years.

[laughter] i am literally tickled pink. i think i'm one of the most blessed guys in the world toly the life that i live and have a book written about my life and have so many people be excited about the book they read about my life. so, yes, i am truly blessed, and i thank you for asking that question. what's your name again? march rye rah? what's your best subject in school? math? [laughter] i thought you said journalism. writing. so it's both. i wish you nothing but the best, baby girl. if i can ever help you, send me a note. [applause] >> [inaudible] if you go back to cnn, how will the interview be different? >> well, that's a question that you need to ask cnn. [laughter] hey, i didn't pull the plug, they did. so that might be -- what's that

woman's name? >> kylie sledge or something? i don't know. [laughter] but the main point is, yes, john will be back on cnn and, yes, they will show more respect because if they don't, there's gonna be thousands upon thousands of people poised and ready to say, oops, you did it again. [laughter] [applause] >> hey, listen, i don't have any misgivings about c, this n because -- cnn because i made it many years before cnn called me to be on their show. if i did it with them, fine, if i don't, fine. god said, you only have to reach one a day. i don't have to reach the masses in one shot. because i'll reach the masses one time, and you only have to do it one time. like people who take pictures. hey, mr. carlos, can you put your fists up? i don't do that no more. why not? you put yours up, and i'll point to it.

[laughter] and you know why i point to it? i point to it to illustrate that the baton has been passed. right? [applause] >> and that's -- >> i'm going to put my fists up -- [inaudible] >> right on, right on! [applause] all right. i love that. >> yeah. feel free to raise your fist at any point this evening. [laughter] >> all right. >> [inaudible] didn't get to the same line that you had before. people would say thicks to you -- things to you, and i actually know this for a fact because i'm from new york, and that particular area and brothers that are about 22, 23 years older than me, and they told me about you, tommie, and i

know that the things weren't exactly the same. how do you move on? because all of us have situations where we have things happen to us, and then we hold on to those things. so you're not really bitter, you -- >> well, man -- >> how'd you do it? >> it's contrary to what you said. my life hasn't changed. people have changed about me. i've been the same johnny carlos today as i was when i was a little boy. i'm the same guy. you know, people when they get recognition, they get big-headed. like i'm greater than thou. i mean, i love people. i've always loved people. i like to laugh, i like to have a good time, i like to make people feel good, and then when it's time for me to kick butt and take names, i like to do that too. [laughter] okay? but i've never tried to be anything more than what my

mother and father raised me to be. they actually say, john, who are you? i said, i never wanted to be more than earl carlos' son. i'm happy being that. certain times, you know, you have to step up. and i'll step up, but i've been stepping up from the time i was a little kid. let me tell you a little something real quick. we had a situation in my project -- did i talk about that? >> no, you didn't talk about -- you just said when you started talking, man, those caterpillars, and then you went on to another subject. people want to hear about the caterpillars before we go? [applause] it's a good story. >> i went to my mother one day, and i asked my mother, i said, mom, we lived this the penthouse, and we lived in the sixth floor, our apartment was the only apartment up there. and my mom would come in from work, work, and she worked nights, she'd come in in the morning, and she would never, ever come downstairs. my mamma was like ben, the

clock. you could count on her. and all the other parents would be down staired talking, one day i went to my mother and said, mom, how come you never hang out with the mothers and talk to 'em? and i leaned in to my mother and say, are you stuck up? [laughter] and when i looked at my mother, she said, what did you say? like the dummy i was, are you stuck up, mom? [laughter] and my mother looked at me with tears in her eyes, and she said, son, i've never, ever thought that i was better than anyone, and i never raised my kids to think i was better than anyone. i said, mom, how come you don't go downstairs? you know, i work in a hospital operating room, and this project is infested with caterpillars every summer. and it's the god's truth. at night when we was listening to the radio station, and we'd turn sid off, you know what i'm

talking about. >> i know. >> and you can hear the caterpillars literally eating the leaves up at night. you would hear 'em munching. so that shows you how many it was. so she's sitting there, i can't go into the operating room with a rash on my neck or on my arm. because he said do you remember when a caterpillar fall out of a tree, anybody know how fragile they are, you go to take it off, you gonna bust it. and by the time you get your hand to your side, you've got a rash on your neck. so i said, that's right, mom. okay. so i took it upon myself, i guess i must have been about maybe 14, and i went to the project manager. i always believe in going to the top. i don't waste no time, straight to the top. [laughter] i went to the manager, and i say we got a problem. he looked at me, what are you doing in my office? man, it's about these caterpillars. how come you don't never spray the trees? get out of my office.

i say, man, i have a right to be here, i want to know about these caterpillars. he pushed the little panic button on his desk, and the police show up, and they grab me. i went down to the gas station and said, mr. gardener, my father sent me to get some gas. where's then can? he didn't send a can. i got the big can, he said, where's the money? he didn't send no money. i give it to you later. i took the can, i had a pocket full of stick matches, and i went over to the trees, and there was four trees in the projects, two here, and then we had maybe 25 yards between the two on each side. so i took the first can, and i told the women down there, hey, you guys move done i there to the end of the prompts and go upstairs, told the guys don't plano ball out here today. i took the gas can, and i hit the first tree, took the stick

match, boom, poof! knocked me back. i said, okay, then i took the next thing, threw it on the tree, fire leaped across. by the time i got to the third tree, they done called the to lis. police come there, and by the time they come to me, i hit the third tree, they was trying to put the fire off for the first three. when i went to hit the fourth tree, now, i thought that i might have embarrassed my mother. i knew i embarrassed my family. and then the judge gave me a writ to come to court. my father said, oh, we're going to court, earl, i'm not going down to court with that boy, but they never knew the method of my madness. i get to court, and the first thing the guy looks at my father, he says, mr. carlos, does your son have any mental

deficiency? [laughter] my father said, no, your honor, not to my knowledge. he said, well, maybe you can explain to me why would your son do that to those trees? wasn't he concerned about the welfare of these people in the probabilities? he said, your honor, that's a real good question. my son is here, why don't you ask him? judge looked at me, he said, well, young man? your honor, let me just explain. my mother and i had a conversation about why she don't come downstairs. my mother explained it was because of the caterpillars. i got to thinking i go up to the pool every now and then, and every summer i go up there, they spray white folks' trees because there's people of color down here, they don't spray our trees. so i went to the manager. it ain't fair that my mother should have to stay upstairs. the judge looked at my father and said, mr. carlos, when was the last time they sprayed? johnny was a little boy, that's

the last time. he looks at the manager, he says, come up here. he says do you have your records with you? no, your honor, i don't have them. well, this is a good time to take a recess. when you come back from lunch, you make sure you bring your records back with you. but the judge was a smart judge because he told the bailiff what i want you to do is call them new york city housing authority and have someone bring the records down here. so you come back from lunch, he says, do you have your files with you? he brought in a little thin piece of paper, as thin as this napkin. he said, that's all you have? your honor, my secretary wasn't in, this is all i could find. he said is there anything in the ordnance from the housing authority? and the management was shocked because this dude come up, and he got a big bundle of papers. and he looked at him and said how often has the project received money, a stipend for spraying the trees? he looked, over the last 15 years they received stipends. he said the last 15 years?

he said, well, how off have they sprayed in the last 15 years? the man looked at me, 15 years. they wrote that they sprayed every year for the last 15 and took that money. so now from johnny carlos being the fool of the neighborhood -- [laughter] now i'm switching over like i'm getting ready to be the hero of the neighborhood. and the judge looked at the guy, and the man looked at the guy from downtown, he said, you come with me. they fired him right there in the court. my father looked at me, the judge looked at me, the judge looked at my father, and he said, well, mr. carlos, you should be really proud of your son, more so because he had the concern of the people at heart. he asked them to get out of the way, and you should be really proud of him for basing the fact that he looked out for your mom, for your wife, for his mother. okay, now, we leaving the courtroom, case over. my father get me in the hall, and he says, son, he says, you've done a lot of things in your life.

[laughter] i got that ass a lot of days. but i'll tell you one thing, i've never seen you back down anytime i had to get you, i've never seen you back down. you took every whipping. he said, i seen when you was a baby and i used to whip you, you never changed. you became immune because i gave you so much, but you never backed down. but he says when the dust settles for every time i whipped you, come to find out you was right all the time, you never said boo to me. now you come here and do one of the most egregious things in our family history -- [laughter] he said, he said, but the judge told you what you did was right. he says, son, i could never tell you how proud i was to hear the judge say that. he said, but even greater than that, i want to apologize for the whippings that i ghei i yo, and i -- gave you, and i want you to know i have the utmost respect for you.

do you know what it is for a 14-year-old kid to have his daddy say he respects you? that was like fuel and put it in a locomotive. everybody got to watch out now. [laughter] understand? it's about making it right. it wasn't about the consequence. you know, i could tell you a story about chicken. >> oh, man. [laughter] oh, we ready for the signing? well, read the book. [laughter] [applause] >> we're going the meet you at the signing out there. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> for more information about john carlos, visit his weapon site, johncarlos.org.

>> we went to war after 9/11 on a credit card and didn't ask -- >> on a --? >> on a credit card. we didn't ask anything of the rest of us, no sacrifices whatsoever. we were kind of encouraged to go back and go shopping again. we had in the enormous boom in housing which was irrational, so much of it, from the beginning. i remember our daughter calling me from san francisco when they were buying their first home, and she said, my god, dad, she said, they're offering these 20-year deals with interest only for the first 15 years but, you know, you could see what was going to come at the end of the first 15 years. and she said, you know, we're going to be more cautious about it, but i worry about my friends. and i went to a couple of major construction people at that time, and i said what in the world's going on? and they said there's so much instrumentation out there now that people will loan anything. and fannie mae and freddie mac were driving a lot of that, and those were two political

institutions, quasi-public, and they got very clever. jim johnson and ohs about get -- and others about getting the idea of home ownership for everyone when, plainly, not everyone was qualified. and was gonna be equipped. we're paying a big price for that now. we've got 20 million homes in this country at the moment that are either in foreclosure or stressed or in danger of going into foreclosure. that means you've got 20 million homes that are not buying new appliances, new carpeting, they can't move to a new job, they're stuck. and they're stuck with the biggest investment they're going to make in their life for many of them. this is, represents a lot of their net worth. and until we get the housing thing figured out, it's going to be a harder job to get the economy really rolling back on track in a way that we need to. and neither party is talking about that which is kind of striking to me. >> your book is made of some very poignant questions, and one of them is a question that john

f. kennedy asked many years ago where if you, if john f. kennedy were around today and asked you what would be tone, what you could do to your country, what you have done for your country recently, how would you answer? how would you answer? >> i would say i appeared at the new york public library and brought out -- [laughter] >> yeah, that's one of the things. [applause] what else would you say? >> i honestly think that i'm at a stage in my life if it's an oxymoron on american life, it is a humble anchorman, we don't exist. [laughter] so this is immodest of me, but i seem to have earned a certain place where people will listen to me, and i've always cared about the country. and "the greatest generation," writing that book, gave me a kind of platform that was completely unanticipated. so i thought i ought not to squander that. so i ought to step up as a, not just as a citizen and as a

journalist, but as a father and a husband and a grandfather, and if i see these things, i ought to write about them and try to start this dialogue which is what i'm trying to do with this book about where we immediate to get to next -- we need to get to next. now, in our family we all do a lot of different things. meredith is here tonight, she's got a microfinance project going on in malawi, i've got a daughter who's on the board of habitat here, another daughter who spent a lot of time in haiti this year live anything a tent with rodents crawling all over her, another daughter who worked for the er physician in san francisco because we were raised by parents and grandparents who just saw that as a part of the natural calling of life, that you gave back in some fashion. so i've done that, but i think my -- i like to think that my larger contribution is to, um, try to engage people in the

events that define their time. >> and you, you have passages in the book precisely about the legacy your parents left to you and how careful and cautious they were and thrifty and never spent more than they had. >> right. >> you say, um, like almost everyone else of their age, they were thrifty by nature and necessity. they didn't spend what they didn't have, and they saved something every week. >> sometimes to a fault. i mean -- in to a fault, meaning they -- >> they were too thrifty. they didn't, you know, i would say lighten up a little bit. you can afford this. but it was hard for them to do it. they just, and it was hard for them to spend the extra buck sometime. now, didn't mean they didn't have a great life, they did. they did everything that they wanted to do, and i had the good fortune of having real resources, and so i could help them in ways that, you know, on

trips or helping them buy a retirement place. but we -- [laughter] it never defined our relationship. my dad died, unfortunately, the week before i began nightly news of a massive coronary, but about three weeks before i began nightly news and it had been announced and this was, you know, a great thing for our family, for me to suddenly have this wonderful job and all this responsibility. and it came with it a very substantial salary. and i caught the wave of people getting paid a lot of money for doing this kind of work. and it got a lot of publicity. and my father who never earned, i think, cash income more than $9,000 a year in his life -- maybe at the end he did better than that -- he worked for the corpses of engineers as a construction foreman. anyway, he called me, a wonderful sense of humor. he said, i'm reading these reports about your salary, is that true? you know, dad, we've never talked about my salary before.

i had made good money before that, but this had taken me to another level. why do you want to -- i don't know, we went on to something else. and about a week later time magazine did a very detailed reporting of how much dan was making, peter, i was making, barbara wallers was making. my father, i called him red, and red called me back. he said, so i'm reading time magazine. [laughter] i said, come on, dad, why are we talking about this? for as long as your mother and i have known you, you've always run a little short at the end of the year, we these to know how much to set aside this year. [laughter] the the perfect, perfect way of dealing with it. i also tell the story in the book, i took him shopping in california one time, he came out to visit us at a very high-end place called gelson's, the supermarket? >> yeah. >> and i had the cart going through the supermarket, and i thought i would show off my thrifty gene.

so they had fresh-squeezed orange juice, and i said to dad, that stuff is really experiencive, let's get the boxed stuff. and he reached down into my shopping cart and picked up three very expensive bottles of california wine, and he said i guess the money that you saved on orange juice will help pay for these. [laughter] kind of put it in perspective for me. >> but he must have been very proud. >> he was proud. but, you know, it was not immodest. and you could not ask my mother about me without her saying, and my son bill who lives in denver is running a restaurant, my son mike, he's a marine, lives around the corner. they just didn't play favorites. and my father, when i first got to have some kind of public celebrity, somebody once asked him, he was at a gathering at the elks club. he went to the elks club, and somebody said, are you related to tom brokaw? my dad said, i think he's a cousin, i'm not sure. [laughter]

>> another aspect of your book that i'd like us to talk about is -- which i didn't really know is the incredible importance you attach to what one might call an enlightened form of philanthropy. philanthropy plays an important role, and by that i mean foundations such as one of the ones that i'm particularly attached to, too, in this city is the robin hood foundation. >> right. >> and you, you talk about it as, in a way, a model, the robin hood foundation would do well to expand in many different cities. >> yeah. we're very fortunate to have the robin hood foundation. i was a big skeptic when it first started. >> you were? >> these are a bunch of rich guys trying to buy some reputation. i had a lot of friends involved in it, and they invited me to

their breakfast which they have every year, they've got another one coming up before too long. and john kennedy j. was there at the time, and he introduced two young men who were running a school up in east harlem, and it was very moving about what they were doing in the school and how john was attached to them. so when john was lost, i thought, you know, what can i do? i went up to that school and said i'd like to help out for a while here, and i did sp. then the robin hood people came to me and said we could really use you on the board because, you know, we're all hedge fund guys, and we make a lot of money, but we don't have much of a political ear, we don't understand how the rest of the world works as much as we're used to having our way, we need somebody to give us a reality check. so i went on the board, and i must tell you, i was astonished at the, a, commitment of these very busy people and, b, the discipline that they brought to how they gave away their money. they paid all the overhead for

robin hood. they have metrics in which they go out to agencies with very professional staff, take the measure of an agency for, say, on unwed mothers or abused family members, and they'll say, they come back and say that one's not going to work, it's not very well -- or it's doing something really important, but we need to go in and help the staff. and they pay for everything, all that is done. now, this is the most generous country in the world. there's no other country in the world that gives money as freely as the united states does for a variety of causes and no city will ever compare with new york when it comes to raising money. i mean, i do a lot of events at the waldorf, and for sometimes for causes that almost no one knows about. and, you know, it's now routine to raise one and a half, $2 million on a night at the waldorf. one of the things when we first began to have some money in our family, and my girls sometimes

were even more generous than i wanted them to be -- [laughter] how much we should give away and when. but i'd grown up with no money, and when i, what i found part of the attractiveness of it is it does, a, give you freedom and, b, you can help out worthy causes. but robin hood is a model, but there are lots of models -- >> there are lots of models. >> i'll just share one other one with you that i'm particularly taken with now, and this has to do with education which i think a lot of how we reform education in america will depend on the public/private partnership. >> you can watch and other programs online at booktv.org. >> well, there's a new book out, it's called "court watchers: eyewitness accounts in supreme court history," claire cushman is the author and john roberts, the chief justice of the u.s. supreme court wrote the foreword. claire cushman, who are the

court watchers? >> court watchers are the justices themselves, their wives, children, oral advocates who argue, court staff, um, reporters who cover the court and even some just random bystanders who happen to be in the courtroom one day and witness something exciting and then went back and recorded it. so most of what this book is me digging up all that stuff over the last 220 years that the court's been in existence and finding all of the insider stories written by that were affiliated with the court. >> what's one of your favorite insider stories? >> have so many because there are some that are funny and some that are poignant and some that are educational. but i guess the ones that i like the most are the ones written by the supreme court spouses because you really get a sense of what it was like at home. so my favorite is written by elizabeth black who was the wife of hugh go black hugo black.

he had a hard time sleeping at night, and he liked to wake up at about 3 a.m. and nudge her and ai've got to talk this over with you, i'm really struggling with this. and her remedy was always a glass of bourbon because that's, in fact, what he really wanted, but he felt he could never help himself, he needed her to suggest it first. i love that story. >> why did chief justice roberts write the foreword? >> well, because i asked him, and he was kind enough to do it. it actually took me about six months for me to get the forward there him, and he wanted to make sure that it was all accurate and well done before he agreed. >> what's your day job? >> i'm director of publications at the supreme court historical society. i write books about the history of the court. >> what yo got you -- what got you interests inside court in the first place? >> actually, i was a national geographic magazine writer, and warren burger called me up one day and said we're looking for

somebody who's young, cheap and good to edit a book about the supreme court, and i said, oh, okay. i think it was later that i found out that the order of those adjectives was wrong, it was probably cheap and good, but it worked out for me. [laughter] >> well, here's claire cushman's new book, "court watchers: eyewitness accounts in supreme court history." roman and littlefield are the publishers. >> you know, that's the kind of story which on the surface does sound very intriguing for me. for me to go forward with it, she would have to have a personal in for me because i'm not one of those journalists who's going to show up and knock on doors. i have to have the story. and it would have to have the elements that i'm looking for. when it's already in the papers, that means there's oh journalists running around it. and i'm also not a gun for hire. so i have to write it as my book. but it's intriguing. i would love to see an e-mail

from her, ben at ben mezrich.com because if it's something you have the handle on and i can get in and talk to everyone and they want to tell their story -- oil, i did write a book about oil, but it was more in the new york merc exchange and in dubai. it's intriguing. but also i stop and start stories all the time. i'll get dozens of these, i'll look into them, and i'll be like, you know what? it's not really right for me, or it's going to take too much time or be dangerous. i also don't like to put myself into real danger, so i would not write a story where i had to get involved with mob people or go, like -- i've gotten those e-mails, too, i mean, really crazy e-mails from people who have done horrible things. when elliot spitzer went down, the madam was e-mailing me. yeah, i'm going to explain to my wife i'm going to hang out with a madam for a year. julian assange people, everyone does contact me at some point.

i do like the stories that are off the beaten track because no one's heard of them. >> well, sex on the moon, this was a big trial. he got arrested in orlando, big trial -- >> 100 agents, helicopters, they closed a major highway, and yet they covered it up. nasa -- and i'm not going to say nasa, i don't know how nasa covered it up, but nasa was very embarrassed by this guy. he was one of their own who robbed him -- >> but a big trial. >> big trial -- was it public or not? i don't know how public it was. if it was a federal trial, i would assume it would have had to have been. >> yeah. >> there were reporters there. it was written about so little, and it didn't just -- there was a wonderful l.a. times article about it at the time which was like a four-page article, and that was really it. and that was, you know, years ago. >> did nasa cooperate with you at all? >> no, no, no. nasa was not thrilled i was writing this book, and they told everyone not to speak to me which makes everyone want to talk to me. i actually got the belgian mineral collector, this guy's a

trip. never been out of antwerp in his life. he collects rocks, and his wife's name is crystal. it's perfect. he meets every monday night with a bunch of 50 and 60-year-old guys in an abandoned rec hall, and they trade rocks. so he gets an e-mail out of the blue, do you want to buy a moon rock? is he starts to think, wait, something's fishy here. so he mails the fbi in the unite and says you might be interested in this, and the fbi creates this whole case using axle as their source, and axle became my source. he reached out to me, and nasa people were feeding him things that they wanted me to know. and then i decided, okay, i want to go to nasa, i want to see what it's like. so they had said no one was allowed to talk to me, so i went on to their web site, and i signed up for a level 9 tour.

i figured they would cross-check my name, but it's a government bureaucracy, and we all know how that works, right? i show up at nasa, they give me a security badge, and the next thing you know, i'm inside nasa. and then thad starts texting me, okay, there's a door at the back of the calf cafeteria, so i hade ultimate guided tour of nasa by the guy who had robbed nasa. and i was able to get the court documents. i have a little group who helped me. i have a lawyer who's one of those guys who can do anything lawyer, and he's got private eyes who could go to tampa and get me the court records -- >> well, those should be public anyway. >> well, i got the fbi files. they took a year to send them to me. there was redacted, but it was thousands of pages and literally, i mean, so i knew everything that thad had been saying was true. i knew i could back everything up. i even had what was in his pockets when he was arrested.

the fbi, you know, you see how hard they work when you get one of those files. they really go into it. they had research on moon rocks for 200 pages just to know what a moon rock is. so i did, you do get all the information that way. but, um, yeah, yeah. >> this is booktv's in depth program, 202 is the area code if you'd like to talk with author ben mezrich. 737-0001 in the east and central time zones. you can also send us an e-mail, booktv@cspan.org or a tweet, twitter.com/booktv is our address. patrick in new london, connecticut, you're on booktv. >> caller: hi, guys, how are ya? >> guest: good. >> caller: ben, a question for you. when you're an author and you become a screen writer, too, what's the difference aside from the obvious having to consolidate it could be into a two hour movie format, and does it get frustrating? it seems to me like whenever you

watch a movie after you read the book, 99% of the time you can always say something was left out. i just saw a movie that was in theaters, and i had read the book, not yours by the way, i think important things get left out of a screenplay that were or in the book, but can you talk about that a little bit? >> guest: sure. first of all, i'm not a successful screen writer yet. i have done one or two screenplays, i did one adaptation of ugly americans, didn't get made. so when i sell my books, they usually bring in somebody else who does it, and it's a process. screenplay is a very different animal than a book. all of the interior sort of dialogue and all of the motivations and all of that stuff kind of gets left out, and they have to write it very succinctly, very action-driven usually. and, yeah, you know, often movies are not as good as the books. i've been very lucky. social network, you know, was a phenomenal movie. you know, they have to pick and

choose. you can't put everything that's in the book onto the screen, it's a shorter format, and also it's not always relevant. but, yeah, i've seen movies before where, oh, they left something out, and then i've seen movies where i felt like they put way too much in. so it's all the strength of the screen writer. and as someone who adapts their own work, i think the hard thing is cutting things. most writers, you know, make the mistake of putting too much in. you want a screenplay to run quickly. you want it to be fast, exciting and not spend a lot of time just sitting around talking, and in books you can get away with that. but my books are very written like screenplays, i get attacked for that as well. i am always thinking of the movie, i visualize every scene, i imagine justin timberlake running around and doing it all. so when i'm writing, it's as if i'm writing a movie in a book form. but people who write screenplays don't usually write books. >> michael tweets in to you,

mr. mezrich, what are your upcoming projects and storylines? >> guest: oh, well, that's a good question from michael. michael's in boston, right? i think i know michael. yeah, yeah, he's great, he's an incredible fashion designer who works in boston -- >> host: yeah, there's a little -- >> guest: i am working on a big, new project, but i'm not yet at liberty to say what it's about. it might be a female main character which would be very new for me. i've never written a female main character before, so if i write that book next, that will be it. but i'm not sure i'm going to write that book. i haven't really decided yet what my next book is. i'm also working on a couple television shows. i have a scripted show that i'm working on, and then i have a show, a reality-type documentary show where i go inside stories every week which i've been working on. sort of like you know how there's all these macho guys on tv? i'm the opposite of that.

so all those man v. wild, i'm the guy who doesn't succeed against the wild. it's where i go inside these stories -- >> hurricane winds? >> guest: well, you know, all the stuff that people pitch to me, essentially, and i become a part of it, and you can see the story, but then i get right out. so that's another show i'm working on. but i don't know yet specifically what my next book is. i have an idea what it might be, but i haven't fully decided yet. >> host: mud stick tweets in, are you familiar with carson block, muddy waters and the china media express fraud? >> guest: no. [laughter] that sounds really intriguing though. i am not. i have, actually, opinion pitched a bunch of china stories. they're tricky because, first of all, there's so much corruption, it's dangerous spending any amount of time following around people -- and there are people making fortunes in china right now doing crazy things. but it's a little bit dangerous for me to do one of those stories. i don't know specifically what story he's talking about, but, you know, there's been some good

ones there. >> robert e-mails in, are you familiar with richard hoagland's work "in relationship to our moon"? >> guest: you know, it's familiar to me, but i don't know. if you gave me more, i might know who you're talking about. >> host: that's all we've got. mario, in miami, good afternoon. you're on booktv with ben mezrich. [inaudible] get paid when the book is -- [inaudible] >> guest: good question. a lot of people want to know, a lot of people who come to me to tell me their story want money. [laughter] i have two types of people coming to me to tell me stories, people who want money, or people who have so much money, they just want their story told which is often more fun. but i, it depends on the

situation. i'm not really trying to write biographies of people. um, i really want to write my books that are about true stories that happened, so it's a little bit different. i have in the past the main character from bringing down the house, for instance, it's my first nonfiction book, i gave him 10% of pretty much everything. the movie was sort of separate. they could become consultants on the film, it all depends on the movie situation. you know, some of the books they don't get anything, obviously, the facebook book they're all way richer than i'll ever be for the rest of my life. it's just different for every situation. i, my goal is to write the story and not have -- the problem when you're paying the characters is that you can become beholden to them in a way. it's not -- it's a weird partnership when you write a story about someone because they're not going to like everything you write in the book. some of the things they're going to really dislike because when you're telling a true story, they have to tell all the

elements of the story, so you really want to have some independence, you want to be able to write the story as it happened and not necessarily as they want you to write the story. so it's not a pay-for-hire kind of story where someone says i want you to write my story, write my story, and then, no, that's not how i happened. it's more like this is an incredible story, and i want to write it, and we have to work something out. if someone gets paid, it's because they're enabling the the research, they're consulting on the facts, and they consult on the film. and if they're consulting and helping with the film, then, yeah. hollywood wants to buy life rights when it makes a story because it wants the story to be accurate. and it much -- i believe that hollywood studios much prefer someone who, you know, gives themselves their life rights, gets involved to the point where it's accurate but isn't like, you know, running around the set trying to control everything. so the goal, of course, is a partnership in which i can write the book however the book has to be. if a movie is made, they can be involved in some way to consult on the film.

but, you know, it's a good question. it's different for every project. you know, usually a main character if book becomes a success, they're going to get a lot out of it that has nothing to do with the payment that i'm going to give them. they can become famous, first of all, they can use that in any way they want. you know, the people from the facebook book, i believe, profited very well from it. i believe everyone involved did very well from that book, including mark zuckerberg. i think the social network and accidental billionaires were very good for mark zuckerberg and for facebook. i don't believe he would have been on the cover of time magazine, i don't think the company would be worth $100 billion without the social network. i really believe it was a big part of making their image cool. mark is way cooler in the movie than he was before the movie, and everyone knows him, and they know him in a way that they would never have known him. and i think that's a wig positive. >> host: how was it that you were able to use a picture of mark zuckerberg on the front of your book? >> guest: you'd have to ask the publisher. i believe it's a photo of a

public figure -- i think, you know, i've seen a lot of obama books with obama on the cover. i think there are different rules, and i'm not a lawyer, but as long as it's true, um, you can't, you're not libeling anybody. as for photo, i think if it's a public figure, um -- i, honestly, have no idea how that works. i don't know anything about the law of it. i'm sure there are people who do. >> host: do you think you'll ever get the chance to chat with him? >> guest: yes, i think i will. cheryl sand berg and i were college class mates, and, you know, she came up to me and said, you know, they did not like the book when it came out, they disagree with it, they say it's not true. however, now everyone's cool with me, and it would be kind of fun if i came to facebook and talked. i think i was enemy number one for about a year, but everything's worked out x the company's doing great, and eventually they'll all be worth trillions of dollars s. she's done amazing stuff over there. i think he's really an incredible person. so i have n