could be lost to china? that is their quote. >> that is a concern. again, our broader concern has got to be, can we better control our energy future of the resources we have available to us from canada is one of the critical paths we have to take supply issues at a hearing held

by the natural resources subcommittee. it's about an hour and 40 minutes. >> good afternoon, everyone. i apologize for starting late. i knew if we had a hearing today, we would have votes at the same time, so i should have expected that. let me begin by thanking our panelists for being here.

and i'm going to also recognize senator bingaman who chairs the resources committee. we're delighted to have him here. and senator lee has another engagement and has to leave. so i would like you to make your opening remarks, and then i will make mine and introduce the panelists. >> thank you so much, senator. i appreciate you accommodating my schedule. i also want thank or witnesses for joining us today. i have been looking forward to this hearing as we look at our domestic and global water supplies. i'm encouraged our committee is looking at continued access to clean and reliable sources to water. it has been my intent, as we

have been approaching this meeting, to address many issues in connection with with hearing to ensure we have the water resources for the next century. and to ensure that we respect the prem si of the states and their role, their historic role in the allocation of water. although the allocation of water is and has been a state-driven process, the government has been involved in the development of water for more than a century, particularly in the west. projects have been built to store and to manage water to produce power and reduce the impacts of floods to provide for navigation and help develop irrigation. most of the federal projects were built with the support of local communities under the e prevailing state water laws. the regulation and appropriation of water resources are, and should remain, within the view of a state-driven process. as we proceed with this hearing, i want to be clear. the ol location of water is a

state responsibility and not a federal one. i believe every state in the nation faces similar challenges with water resources. first, with limited fresh water supplies, how can we ensure that we have a safe water supply for urban and rural communities and how do we develop affordable options to further develop our finite supplies of water. i hope our witnesses can describe options available to address these questions. water as it has served for the last century, will be the backbone of the economy. safe, reliable and cost-effective supplies for water will be a critical driver of all sectors of the american economy, including agricultural, industry, recreation, and that water that's used for domestic purposes. i encourage witnesses to think outside the box on options to expand our water supply for new

resources and through conservation efforts. in so doing, i would encourage witnesses to think outside the box on how the government can best assist the states with meeting their water supply challenges. so i look forward to the extent i'm able to remain for the next few minutes to hearing these. we'll follow up with my own questions in writing. i want to recognize and thank tony willard sonson, who is the director of the water council. he's from salt lake city. i want to thank him for being here. and finally, in closing, i want to acknowledge that i understand that the epa is embarking on the preparation of a report to address the value of water to the u.s. economy. and i'll be following up with

some questions in writing on how various entities that we'll be discussing today may have contributed to the study and how we can follow up on that. so with that, i'll turn it back to you. thank you for accommodating my schedule. >> thank you, senator lee. as senator lee suggested, we're here today to explore the opportunities and challenges facing domestic and global water supplies. it is a very broad topic, but it's also one that deserves our ongoing attention because water is critical. yet most of us really don't pay much attention to the water that we use. where it comes from, where it goes after we finish using it. many of us in the united states take water for granted. but globally, 800 million people do not have access to safe drinking water. the figures are astounding.

they estimate that americans use about 100 gallons of water per day. the majority of our daily water use helps generate electricity. with over 200 billion gallons of water used in this sector alone. globally, agricultural water use accounts for nearly 70% of all water withdrawals. when we consider that the the world's population is expected to grow from 7 billion to ten billion people by 2050, we realize the successful management of our water resources is critical. the state department reports that in just two decades, the world's demand for fresh water is expected to exceed supply by 40%. there's increasing recognition that water scarcity raises tensions. coupled with our changing

climate, the future of our water supplies both here in the u.s. and around the world, is a cause for grave concern. in my home state of new hampshire, the fastest growing of all the new england states, we're projected to add 260,000 new residents by 2030. while we're fortunate to have abundant water supplies, we face our own challenges from increased flooding and ageing infrastructure. i'm very pleased to acknowledge harry stewart, who is from new hampshire and is joining us from new hampshire's department of environmental services where he heads the water resources division, to provide the perspective from not only new hampshire, but from the northeastern states. while we have seen great strides in technology to overcome water challenges, we don't yet have a silver bullet to overcome water scarcity. at the same time, there are

innovative ways to reduce water consumption using existing technologies. our armed forces have often been trailblazers in figuring out how to do more with less and how the initiative with water is an impressive example for which we can all learn. and we're all very anxious to hear what you have to tell us. i'm pleased to welcome our witnesses today and look forward to hearing from them about the state of the existing technologies, the future of technological innovation, and what else we can do as a society to ensure we have adequate supplies of water for future generations. i want to recognize our first panel, ann castle, who is assistant secretary for water and science with the department of the interior. thank you for being here. jerry hanson, with the u.s. army. good afternoon. and mr. aaron salzberg.

before i turn it over to ms. castle, let me ask the chairman if he'd like to make any remarks at the start. >> i really didn't have any opening statement. i'm glad to be here to learn what i can from these witnesses. i think it's an important issue. one we need to understand much better. so thank you for having the hearing. >> thank you. ms. castle. >> thank you. thank you for inviting me to be here today to talk to you about the department of the interior's undertakings and accomplishments with respect to what are scarcity domestically and globally. i will be talking about the two agencies i work with. while it is states that allocate water supplies and control

administration of use, the federal government has a very important role to play in leading the way to stainability of water resources and providing the tools that we need to get there. the usgs is best known in the world of water for the over 7,000 stream gauges that they operate deployed all across the country. those stream gauges provide with realtime information that is accessible to anyone that goes online. that information is really essential to the national weather service, fema, army corps of engineers, and any water manager. usgs helps with water imbalances, by telling us how and where water is being used across the country. every five years, usgs produces a report on the overall water use in the united states, and tells us what water withdrawals

are used for and what volume of water is being used for those purposes. it's also drilling down on particular water sheds and doing very detailed supply and demand inventories in existing river basins. for example, senator as you know, usds recently completed two reports on water supply and demand in the seacoast area in new hampshire. one was looking at current and future surface water demand based on growing population and climate change, and the other was a ground water model that was looking at projected ground water depletions based on both withdrawals and climate change as well. reclamation has a key role to play. it's the largest wholesaler of water in the united states and the second largest producer of

hydroelectric power. we provide irrigation water supplies to ten million acres of land. reclamation's role has evolved over the years from being solely construct tor and operator of dams and reservoirs, to being one of the comanagers of the ecosystems in which those reservoirs exist. we now know we have to pay attention to downstream resources if we're going to fulfill our mission of providing reliable supplies of water and power. interior's signature initiative to lead the way towards stainability of water supplies is our water smart program. reclamation is a key player in water smart. we know that we need to develop better strategies for managing our own water supplies, but we also recognize that we have a role to play in facilitating new technology in insenttive vising

use and recouraging water users. one of the ways water smart does that is providing cost share grants to help fund water conservation and reuse measures and to incentivize breakthroughs. a great example of water smart grant is in senator lee's state. a grant that we made to the water conner is venn si district. $300,000 to automate the delivery system. that's going to enable savings of over 1,800 acres and better stainability in the important energy resource development of eastern utah. another example of information that we provide to assisting water supply management is through usgs's satellite system.

land set gives us remotely-sensed land imagery over the entire globe. but it also allows us to accurateliest mate consumptionive use of water from vegetation and crops. it gives us a better tool for more quickly and inexpensiveliest mating water use. that's an important component of water balance. my written testimony describes our other work, our international work, in the middle east and north africa. it also describes our efforts to estimate the impacts of climate change on water supplies. and assess how to improve that information. and finally, i have described our incubation of new technologies for accessing unconventional supplies of water, like sea water or brackish ground water or other

impaired sources, so we can increase the availability of water. as water scarcity increases, which we have every reason to believe that it will, we're trying to use a multipronged approach to create the platforms and the tools that water managers and planners need to adapt to changing conditions and to create security for the future. i look forward to talking with you further about this important question and to answer your questions. thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. hanson. >> thank you. it's a pleasure today to appear to discuss water scarcity and how the army's programs and efforts to create net zero installations operations are part of the solution. we're especially grateful for the committee's interest in the army's energy reduction programs. we believe the efforts coupled with the vision for stainability

will help our installations accomplish their missions now and into the future without disruption. the army faces significant manmade and natural threats to our energy and water supply requirements both at home and abroad. stainlations faced a tsunami, earthquake, tornadoes in the south, and droughts in the west. we must address the threats and work to ensure the army of tomorrow has the same access to resources as the army of today. addressing stainability is operationally necessary, financially prudent, and essential to mission accomplishment. we are creating a culture that recognizing the stainability. benefits to maintaining mission capability, quality of life, relationships with local communities, and the reservation of options for the army's future. the army's proud to lead the water in meeting reductions in the energy policy act of 2005. our installation of water

intensity has dropped from 56 gallons in 2007 to 48.8 in 2010. the center piece of our program to appropriately manage our natural resources is our net zero program. a net zero water installation limits the resources and returns water back to the same water shed so as not to deplete the ground water resources of that region in quality and quantity over the course of a year. we have pilot installations identified as well as net zero water. the net zero water strategy balances water availability and use to ensure a sustainable water supply for years to come. this concept is of increasing importance in scarety is becoming a serious issue in many areas. the continued drawdown results in significant problems for our future. strategies such as harvesting

rain water and recycling discharge water will reduce our need for municipal water. our water security mission makes water a consideration in all army activities to increase efficiency, reduce demand, seek alternative sources, and create a culture of water accountability while sustaining or enhancing operational capabilities. for example, management command will be holding users accountable to install new technologies and leverage partnerships that can provide an increased level of water security. this will lead to increased stainability and enhance mission assurance. the army has identified eight installations as net zero pilot sites. let me highlight two examples. first is camp riley oregon. this installation is striving to

reach by redesigning their waste water capability to operate independent of the existing supply. if needed, to keep the north coast energy operation center operable 24/7. they installed rapid infiltration basins to supplement the reuse capabilities and comply with regulatory rierms for waste water discharge. secondly, joint base lewis mccord in washington. they have requested funding for replacing ageing and obsolete treatment plants at their installation. it will generate class a reclaimed water to be reused as part of the net zero initiative. the project is designed to reduce or eliminate discharges into a creek and reuse it. joint base lewis mccord is including storm water in their goals. the installation has been meeting the executive order

required water use reduction, mostly through conservation products. parallel of net zero, the army is also implementing solutions to reduce water use in our operations. reducing water use directly decreases the threats to our convo convoys. 70 to 80% of our supply weight is fuel and water. less water means fewer conveys, which means fewer soldiers were placed at risk. it makes the army more efficient and directly enhances the mission. the magnitude of water savings associated with the reuse system deployed in a force provider are pretty impressive. in many cases, it produces a simple economic payback in less than a week of use. from the net zero pilots and

initiatives, we'll be collecting best management practices and lessons learned and we'll share these. this concludes my statement. thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. i look forward to your questions. i also have an army vision for net zero folder i'd be happy to provide for the record if you'd like. >> very much. we would like that very much for the record. thank you, mr. hanson. mr. salzberg. >> thank you, madame chair. i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today. secretary clintoned no two issues are more important than water. yet as you pointed out, today over 884 million people lack access to safe drinking water in over half lack basic sanitation. each day, nearly 4,000 people,

most children under five, die from preventable diseases caused by contaminated water. not surprisingly, women and girls are most affected. in addition to the health impacts, water will affect our ability to vekt the environment, achieve food security, and respond to climate change. competition for water and the lack of access to basic water and sanitation services may become a source of conflict and a tributing factor to failure. while these statistics are grim, there is hope. in most places, there's enough water to meet demands. what's lacking is a commitment to management and meeting the basic water needs of the people. to address these challenges, the united states is working internationally to help countries achieve water security. this means ensuring that people have reliable and sustainable access to the water they need, when they need it, where they

need it, while reducing the risks from extreme hydrological events. to achieve this goal, the united states is working to increase access to safe drinking water and sanitation, improve water resources management, and mitigate the tensions associated with shared waters. last year, secretary clinton outlined five primary areas of action for our work on water. first, to build and strengthen human capacity at the local and national and regional levels. countries must take the lead in securing their own water future. we need to help build the capacity to do so. second, increase our diplomatic efforts. we need to work to raise international awareness, to encourage developing countries, and national plans and budgets, and to integrate water to food security, health, and climate change initiatives.

third, mobilize financial support. this is going to require resources. in many cases, there is capital within developing countries. we need to work to mobilize the resources towards infrastructure by strengthening local capital markets, providing credit enhancements, and exploring other support. fourth, promote science and technology. there's no silver bullet. science and technology can have a huge impact. we need to work hard to make a difference in scale and to share u.s. experience and knowledge with the rest of the world. finally, build and sustain partnerships. we cannot solve this problem alone. as you have already heard, there's a great deal of knowledge and experience that lies within the u.s. agencies, private sector, nonprofit, we need a hall of government

approach. and stronger partnerships with the nongovernmental community. i'll stop here, but i'll live you with a quote from secretary of state hillary clinton. she said it's not every day you find an issue where eshtive diplomacy and development will allow you to save millions of lives, feed the hungry, and power women, advance our national security interests, protect the environment, and demonstrate the billions of people that the united states cares. cares about you and your welfare. water is that issue. we look forward to continuing our work with the members of this subcommittee, other agencies, and interested stake holders to improve water resources management and to get water to billions of people who are currently without. with your permission, i'd like to submit my full remarks for the record and thank you again for the opportunity to testify. >> thank you very much. let me begin with you, ms.

castle. senator lee talked about this in his statement about the fact that currently, states control much of the regulation and policy around water. i certainly know that as a former governor. but should we do more at the national level to address water supply issues in this country? do we need a national water policy? or do we have one and just don't know about it. >> i don't think we have one and don't know about it. and i think that the best thing that we can do at the federal level is to more fully integrate and coordinate, as mr. salzberg said, take advantage of the expertise in the agencies and maximizing our use of resources. because i do think there's a

very important federal role in providing leadership and providing the tools to get to water stainability. but i also think that not just because the states control water allocation and use, but also because the issues are so regional and local. they are different in every water shed. that the best solutions are those that come from the ground up. it's the kind of thing that the cooperative water shed management program was designed to facilitate. getting people together in the communities. developing sustainable water plans. rolling those up into river basins and into state plans. i think that is the best mechanism that we have to create solutions that are going to

last. because solutions to water shed conflict have to have widespread support. they cannot be top down, in my opinion. so the concept of water planning, i don't think, is ones that best designed to succeed. i think rather, it should come from the ground up. >> thank you. you mentioned technology and the important of technology. i think you all actually mentioned that in some respects. but given that we haven't seen any real major technological leaps in the recent past, are there more r&d efforts we ought to be engaging in and promoting through federal policy to encourage those kinds of technological breakthroughs? >> senator, i think that there

have been good progress made in advancing technology with respect to making new sources of water available. technology has advanced. a very significant problem has been the energy requirements. those have actually come down significantly over the past 20 years. so we're seeing some successes there. and some of the kinds of advanced technologies that reclamation is funding, both through it's desalination research program and the water smart grants, is in the category of using renewable energy to power desalination processes. wind, solar, even wave energy. and i think that's a very

significant avenue for additional research and development. i do think we have to concentrate on r&d. that's an area where federal coordination would be really welcome because there are a lot of different agencies who are putting effort into those kinds of projects. i also think we can learn from countries around the world. like israel and australia, who have made significant leaps forward in use of impaired water resources. >> in the 25 seconds i have left, can you describe one of the projects that's been funded through the water and energy efficiency grand program? and how it's been effective? >> i can. we have made probably close to 60 or 70 grants under the water

and energy efficiency program. this past year, we had $24 million available that was spread over 52 projects. of those, 24 had energy efficiency, energy savings incorporated into the water conservation project. and i can give you a specific example that's representative. in oregon, the irrigation district had a project to line an irrigation canal to reduce seepage and reduce the diversion requirement from the river. and when you encase the irrigation canal, that gives you the opportunity to put high powered regeneration on to it. so the project included generation of hydroelectric power that they could then use

for their own power needs. had enough left over to sell power in the grid to pay for the conservation project. we have seen several projects like that with the enclosure of formerly unlined canals and hydroelectric power generation tacked on to it. it's a really good system. it's very sustainable and low impact environmentally. >> great. thank you. senator bingaman. >> thank you all for your testimony. i guess each of us approaches this problem based on our own where we're from and based on our own experience. the state i represent is new mexico. and in our state, i believe i'm right, that the largest use of water is agriculture. and accordingly, the largest

opportunity for reducing water use is agriculture. and it strikes me that all of the things you're talking about are useful, but we do not do enough to assist and incentivize and require that agriculture be more sensitive to water use and waste in this country. i don't know if any of you have views on that, but i don't know that the extent to which the department of agriculture has focused on this as a priority in their work with farmers who are dependent upon large amounts of water for the crops they grow. this is an issue in my state because the water being used by agriculture in many cases is ground water. it's being depleted. and we are not going to have it 20 years from now to use.

so if any of you have comments on that, ms. castle, maybe you'd want to start. give any thoughts you have on that. >> senator bingaman, the way in which the bureau of acclamation gets involved in agricultural efficiencies is primarily in the delivery systems. i mentioned to senator shaheen the kinds of projects where facilitating the lining or enclosure of formerly unlined canals. we also provide water smart grant funding for automation of delivery systems to avoid spills and overdlifrys and cutting down the need for diversions. we do less in the area of actual consumptive use by crops. it's my understanding that the department of agricultural and

the natural resource conservation service does quite a bit of work in that area and provides information on best practices with respect to drip irrigation systems and control technologies that allow testing of the soil moisture, so that you're not overapplying the water supply. i know less about that area though. >> you're right. this is one of the most pressing issues we face internationally. many developing countries dedicate well over 70% of their water for irrigation purposes. i was looking at one country where over 99% of its water goes for agricultural purposes. any gains we can make in that sector is important to our being able to use water for other purposes in those countries. there's no question our trying

to focus on moving a country away from flood irrigation towards those technologies that can minimize the water applied to the crops land management practices that can remain moisture on the field and in adjacent areas that can offer long-term support in drought protection. low water consuming crops and crops that can grow on brackish water are things we need to be thinking about. and management and policy changes that inventivize water use. it can help ensure that farmers understand these things do have a cost to them and they need to be managed wisely. this is an important area for us to work on. >> let me ask about one other issue. in the west, historically, control of water and management of water has been a state issue.

in the case we have water running, the states have dealt with that issue by entering into compacts. where we have two states sharing an underground aquifer, that hasn't happened. and we have the circumstance, which has been a long-term source of irritation in eastern new mexico, which is that we share the ogalala aquifer with many states. they have an irresponsibility set of water laws in texas, which basically allows you to pump and use as much water as you've got equipment for. whereas in our state, we have tried to limit water use and

make it much more orderly. but the frustration on our side is that the water level in the aquifer continues to drop because of the excessive water use on the texas side of the border. we have two straws in one aquifer that's straddling the state line. is there a way the government can play a more constructive role in this? there's no incentive on the part of texas to do anything other than what they are doing, until they run out of water. but ms. castle, maybe you have thoughts on how to solve this problem. >> that's a tough problem, senator bingaman. i would first say that one of

the best weapons in any sort of ground water dispute is good information. and that's sometimes lacking in ground water particularly. so i know that usgs has been doing some work to characterize that aquifer and to look at rates of depletion and the stresses on the aquifer. i think that's going to be a necessary component of any solution. frequently, i think the ground water disputes get dealt with in the fom of the surface water compacts they are attached to. but when that doesn't exist, it poses a more difficult problem. but i can see ultimately that there would need to be a ground

water impacompact between new mo and texas with allocation and safe withdrawal rates. and you're absolutely right. when one rule has a rule of capture and the other doesn't, it doesn't create a basis for negotiations. the federal government's role can be to supply good information. i need to give some additional thought to what else we might be able to do. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. mr. hanson, one of the things that has impressed me about the efforts that have been undertaken by the army, by think by the navy as well and the military in general, has been the effort not just to address water, but also energy. i wonder if you could talk about how you look at those two issues

and why, in thinking about how to address them, you decided it needed to be a joint effort? >> part of it was that we were both looking at the same challenges at the same time. it was a marriage of convenience. but we also are connected at the joint bases and have connections there that drove us in that direction. and we have also shared some personnel turnover, which we have shared between the two agencies. so that's furthered our cooperation. but we are going for net zero energy as well as water as i mentioned. with net zero energy, meaning we're attempting to produce as much energy at the insulation as we consume. this is over a period of a year. so for instance with solar, we may be producing more than we need during the day and drawing from the grid at night.

and certain seasons, it would be more so than others. but we also recognize for every energy project, there's an energy component. so there's a certain amount of water and we project that to a 30-year time frame to make sure we have a sufficient amount. that's considered in our work as well. and if we want to use a more efficient concentrated solar solution, for instance, it's going to require more water. so it becomes more of a challenge. that could be a limiting factor in using certain types of technologies. there are equal challenges for the future. and we are joined at the hip for those two. that's why we manage them out of the same office. >> can you talk about how you are cooperating with other federal agencies to the extent that you are? and how that's working? >> yes, ma'am. as you know, the department of defense and department of energy

have an mou. we're very involved with the doe labs. we currently have a senior executive from the department of energy that's helping with the renewable energy initiatives. and we're using pacific northwest national lab to do our water survey audits and insulations that help us map out what we're currently using, establishing a baseline for that. we have also recently established an mou with epa and are working closely with them in a numb of areas. we are involved in land use coordinating committee with the department of interior and other agencies looking at withdrawing land issues and others in the west where there are a number of challenges to long-term leases and other types of energy projects we might want to enter

into in the private sector. so we really are trying to partner with everyone who is interested in the same topic. we have reached out and a lot of them have reached out to us. that's continuing to grow. >> that's encouraging. you were talking about some of the efforts to look at how much water individuals are using. i remember one time when i was in college, we had a water shortage for awhile. we were all instructed to make sure we turned off the faucets as we were brushing our teeth. limited showers. all of those sort of very easy standard things. but are there lessons that you think you have learned as you're looking at personal habits and how we change those personal habits around water usage? that's a place where we, in the united states, have not been

very careful about our water use. >> yes, ma'am. i think that changing the culture for water is similar to changes the culture for energy. both are very definitely needed. we're approaching that by metering and by getting feedback, whether it's through a mock bill or an actual bill to family housing areas to make people more aware or visible of what their use actually is. we're encouraging the use of filters for the water to reduce the pressure to a reasonable level and limit the amount of usage. that's not an official policy yet, but we've got a lot of discussions on how we can change habits that have really led to inefficient use of both energy and water over the years, in which will have to be changed. we find the younger generation is very much more akeen to this

and do some of those things more naturally than the older cohorts. but we're attacking that at all levels in our education systems too. for instance, west point is very involved in a number of these projects. and passing that along. we're sharing our best practices with our installations. and i think that while culture change is not overnight, i'm encouraged by the amount of change i have seen just in the last year or so. >> that's encouraging. mr. salzberg, you mentioned the impact globally of water use on women in particular. it's something that i hadn't really thought about until i started going through the briefing for this hearing. and recognizing that empowering

women and girls in other countries around the world has been very important to stability and economic prosperity. can you talk about what the impact of water scarcity is on women and girlsgirls, and if itt addressed what the prospects are for the future? >> it's a very important question of course. in subsaharan africa there are some women that spend six hours a day collecting the water for their families. so you can imagine that they have to forego other economic-generating opportunities, other things they might be doing for the family and for the community. at the same time, the lack of safe water and in particular sanitation in schools is a reason why girls when they reach a certain age become very uncomfortable in attending some of these schools and is

accountable for some of the dropping outs we see in many schools internationally. so it's important for a whole bunch of reasons. women are often responsible of course for take care of members of the family who are sick or ill. diarrheal disease being the main disease for children and women having to stay home. so it does affect women and girls of all levels of development. >> and as we're looking at the effects of climate change, particularly in africa, subsaharan africa, but seeing some of those effects here, are there ways that we're looking at planning for the water effects of climate change globally? and have there been discussions about this in durbin this week that you're been following?

>> >> i'll start with the last question first. water is a subject being discussed in durbin. i know there are many events on the margins of the major meetings talking about these kinds of issues. first is collecting data. it's just trying to get an understanding of the resources that we have and how they'll be impacted by some of these changes. miss castle pointed out a number of activities we're doing domestically. same exact kinds of things we need to be doing internationally. we then need to translate that data into some sorm of usable form for consumers. we need to generate information that will be meaningful to our consumers. and that means both those people that can help generate some of the solutions to these challenges but also there's people who will be most impacted by these kinds of challenges. so it's a data management issue there. then from an action standpoint, we really do need to focus our work on building flexible structures, in other words infrastructure that can be altered and respond and adapt to change conditions over time.

flexibility institutions. >> like give me an example. >> when we start thinking about dams, large-scale infrastructure, how do we ensure that we can operate those under a wide range of different conditions. if we know that we have glaciers upstream that will be melting, and so it will be changing the timing of flows down a particular river then how do we ensure that we've got infrastructure that will be able to change and manage those changes over the next 30, 100 years. because that's how long we hope that this infrastructure will be in service for. so it's a large, large issue in many places throughout the world. how do we build flexible institutions and flexible contractual agreements and legal agreements? when you look across the world, when you have legal agreements that are based on country x gets this amount of water, country y gets this amount of water, if the amount of water is going to be changing over time you can imagine it's going to be very difficult to enforce those types of agreements. so we need to build very robust institutions that allow the countries to work together to on

an annual, five-year, ten-year, whatever is appropriate basis to evaluate the data and reoptimize the management of shared resources for the benefit of all the people within the basin. and so the key really is going to be building the inflexibility into many of the institutions and arrangements that we have. >> thank you. i feel like this is a conversation that we're just beginning here and this hearing. but because we have another panel to present i'm going to thank the three of you very much for your testimony. we will have some questions, i think, submitted for the record which we may ask you to respond to. and hopefully from this hearing we will generate some additional actions and continue this conversation. so thank you all very much. and i'm going to ask the second panel if they would come forward.

while they're doing that i will just point out that senate is out for the weekend. so some of the senators who might have come today have obviously are getting on earlier flights. but i view this as just more time for me to ask questions. again i want to thank each of our panelists for joining thus afternoon. i will introduce you briefly and we will then begin. dr. peter glick is president of the pacific institute in oakland, california. thank you for joining us. mr. thomas stanley is the chief technology officer for general

electric. and tony willardson is the executive director of the western states water council. melissa meeker is the executive director of south florida water management district in west palm beach. and hare stewart is the director of the new hampshire department of vital services water division. so again, thank you all very much for being here. and mr. glick i'm going to start with you. >> madam chairwoman, thank you very much for the opportunity to come and speak to the committee and the subcommittee about opportunities and threats on national and global fresh water issues. my written testimony has been submitted for the record. it's far more detailed in both the issue of threats facing us and some of the solutions and opportunities that i'll be able to talk about today. but it's there for the record. theodore roosevelt said 100 years ago "the nation behaves well if it treats the natural resources as assets which it turns over to the next

generation increased and not impaired in value". and i would just start by noting that we're failing to do that for water. we are not turning over our water resources in a better condition than we found them. there are a wide range of global and national water challenges as you've heard already, partly from the previous panel. i would say they fall into two basic categories. the first is challenges over water availability and use, the second is challenges over the quality of water resources. i might add a third that is perhaps challenges with the way we manage water and with the institutions that we create to deal with water. my written testimony addresses a wide range of challenges. i'll just mention a few of them. some have already been touched on. our water quality is threatened with new contaminants, with old contaminant that is we failed to remove. we are failing to invest adequately in maintaining and upgrading our water infrastructure, precisely at a time when governments are

cutting back on all sorts of expenditures. water disputes are growing over the allocation and use of water. senator lee made the comment at the beginning that states typically have the responsibility for allocating water. that's not entirely correct, of course. and in fact, utah and nevada have a challenge over ground water resources as senator bingaman noted that has not been adequately addressed and may not be adequately addressed at the state level. and often when states have a challenge that they can't resolve among themselves, they require the federal government to step in. the health of natural eco-systems is degrading. the natural eco-systems that use the same water that humans use. water and energy links are very strong. and they are typically ignored in policy. we don't think about the water required to produce energy, we don't think about the energy required to produce water. the whole issue of fracking these days is an example of a

desire to solve an energy problem without perhaps adequately thinking about some of the water-related challenges. and there are food and water links. we grow a tremendous amount of food for the united states and for the rest of the world. and yet we don't manage that agricultural water use particularly well. finally on the challenges side, federal coordination over water is lacking. there are very important, serious federal responsibilities for water. they're not well-coordinated, they're not well-managed. it's a difficult challenge but it needs to be improved. and so it's time for what i would describe as a 21st century u.s. water policy. and there are a series of recommendations. in my written testimony i'd just like to touch on a couple of them. first of all we need to better coordinate among the federal agency that is have different responsibilities for water and energy and agriculture and water quality and all of the different water-related issues. we might consider a national

water commission. we haven't had one that's reported to the president and the congress since the early 1970s. we might reinstate basin water commissions that have been very effective at managing water resources. second, the nation lacks and must develop an adequate understanding of water supply use and flows. it's sort of remarkable, but we do not have adequate data on the way we use water on the water that's available, on the variability of that water resources. ms. castle talked about the usgs's responsibility in this area but it needs to be widely expanded. and the secure water act public law 111-11 recommended a national census for water. and it's not been adequately funded. we need better strategies for pricing water and for marketing water. there is a serious federal responsibility for the way much of the western water is priced and allocated. we've subsidized water extensively. there were good reasons for doing that, but not all subsidies that we've put in

place a century ago or 50 years ago or 30 years ago still make sense. water policies and infrastructure need to be designed for climate change. climate change is a real problem. it's already happening. we see clear evidence of it in some of the most significant impacts of climate change will be on our water resources. because the hydro logic cycle is the climate change. there are other written recommendations in my written testimony. i just want to point out one figure from that testimony. it's figure 3 if you have it available. we at the pacific institute put out a report on energy and water in the intermountain west a few weeks ago. one of the conclusions of that report was a tremendous amount of water currently used to produce energy in the united states could be saved if we move to a combination of renewable energy systems and smart, advanced cooling systems on existing technology. we could reduce the amount of water required for cooling very substantially with modern

technology in the energy area. and then finally, i'd like to note there is some good news. the united states uses less water today for everything than we used 30 years ago. and figure 4 in that -- in my written testimony shows this. our water use has levelled off on a per capita basis our water use has dropped dramatically. and that's a result of changes in the structure of our economy and in particular it's the result of tremendous improvements in the efficiency with which we use water. we're growing more food with the same amount of water. we're producing more industrial and commercial and domestic products with the same amount of water. it is possible to have a healthy, growing economy and population with a significantly potentially decruised use of water. and so there are lots of opportunities to do better with things we're already doing. thank you very much. i'd be happy to answer questions. >> thank you. mr. stanley. >> senator shaheen, it's a

privilege to share with you today g.e.'s thoughts on addressing domestic and global water supply issues. as the chief technology officer for g.e.'s global water business it's my responsibility to effectively manage the about $100 million a year that g.e. invests in clean water development. i'm delighted to outline for you g.e.'s efforts in this critical area. g.e. energy has more than 100,000 global employees and generates about $40 million of revenue annually. we provide integrated product and service solutions in all areas of energy and water industries including conventional and renewable technologies. our water business that i have responsibility for has more than 8,000 employees in 130 countries around the world that. includes 400 scientists and engineered located in ten major technical centers who are dedicated to developing

solutions in collaboration with our customers to address issues associated with water purity and water scarcity. we also have access to g.e.'s network of global research centers. g.e. research as it is called is one of the world's largest and most diversified industrial research labs. today g.e. research has a dedicated team and a world-class team of scientists and engineers partnering with my team in our business to develop the next generation of solutions, making water more accessible and more affordable for our customers in this time of increasing water challenge. so our business has identified several themes that are very important to our customers. and my team has aligned our research activelies with these important themes. the first is to develop the capability to treat increasingly impure water sources. the second is to develop the ability to reuse or recycle a higher percentage of treated water. the third is to reduce the cost and the energy consumption

required to treat water. and lastly is to develop solutions for our customers to meet increasingly stringent requirements and regulations on the discharge of water. in my written testimony i took the time to elaborate on three examples that illustrate these themes. the first of these was our ability to now take -- get very high recovery of usable water from salty or brackish rivers and streams. we are now evaluating this new technology with a number of beverage manufacturers who are required to use these brackish water sources and have a high premium on a high yield of usable water. the second is the treatment and recycle at low-cost of the water that's produced in the conjunction with the production of oil. and the third is to capture exceedingly low concentrations of mercury in wastewater he fluent from coal-fired water

plants allowing them to reach the increasingly stringent requirements. a few examples but representative examples of the kind of things my team works on on a daily basis. there is an important role that federal funding can play in r&d to leverage the investments of key stakeholders including foundations and universities and communities as well as industry in addressing water scarcity and quart issues. chairman shaheen, it's been my pleasure. i thank you for your time. it's been a pleasure to talk about these topics. >> thank you very much, mr. stanley. mr. willardson. >> madam chairman, the western states water council was created in 1965 by a resolution of the western governors. and we represent 18 states. re reck la makes states and the state of alaska. our members are appointed by the governors and we are closely affiliated with the western governors association. the water resources in the west are under stress given our population growth as well as changing water needs and values and there are an increasing

number of conflicts between users and uses. states are primarily responsible for ensuring that their own water resources are sustainable. but federal support is essential given the federal trust responsibilities and regulatory mandates. water must be given a higher public priority at all levels of government. as an essential element of a sustainable economy and sound environment. adequate supplies of clean water are essential to creating and maintaining jobs. in integrated and collaborative approach beginning at the local watershed is important to effectively conserve, protect, develop and manage our water resources. we must recognize and respect national, regional, state, local and tribal differences, their values, and support decision making and problem solving at the lowest practical level. in 2006 the council and western governors association worked together working with our federal partners to address

uncertainties related to growth, better define our water supplies, uses and means, improve our infrastructure, resolve indian water rights claims and deal with environmental demands particularly related to endangered aquatic species as well as climate uncertainties. we very much appreciate the leadership of the subcommittee and the committee in enactment of the secure water act in support of usgs stream gauging and land sap programs with the indian water rights settlements that have been adopted, now 27, and also we are working on related funding issues. and the committee's work on energy and water integration. i'd like to highlight the work of our western federal agency support team created at a request of the western governors and helps us in implementing the water needs and strategies for sustainable future reports which provide a number of recommendations. 11 federal agencies have named

representative toss work with us on those recommendations. that includes the army corps of engineers, the bureau of reck makes and u.s. geological survey. and today they have dedicated a federal liaison who is detailed in our offices. that person is an e.p.a. employee. and d.o.e. has also expressed interest in participating. in addition to support of the council and w.g.a. initiatives, wes fas helps to coordinate other water-related federal efforts and has identified the numerous federal resource studies going on in the colorado river basin and also has compiled a summary of federal climate-related programs. we view wesfas as a model for other state partnerships and further opportunities for leveraging limited resources to address priority water problems. i'd like to highlight just a few examples of our collaborative efforts. one of the challenges that we face is a lack of adequate information related to our existing water uses as a region.

now, we have outlined step toss create a water data exchange to compile and share water use information between states and federal agencies. and we're working with the department of energy to first identify uses related to energy demands. we're also participating with usgs and the national water census. we continue to work with the department of interior and the native american rights fund to better define and settle indian water rights claims. and as i said to fund those implementation of the settlements that congress has approved. water in the west is moving from agriculture to other uses, and we're exploring innovative ways of conserving water, allowing water transfers and encouraging sharing in a manner that avoids and mitigates negative impacts on agricultural communities and the environment. federal water transfer policies will be an important part of this effort as well as an examination of federal regulatory requirements. well-defined water rights and regulatory processes are important to encouraging

appropriate opportunities to voluntarily move water between existing and future needs. in this regard the lansat thermal imaging is important to help us archive and measure consumptive water use and improved water rights management and administration. requested usgs funding is essential to maintain this capability. lastly i'd mention with respect to the aging infrastructure that it is a major concern. in addressing opportunities to prioritize and we find are necessary improvements and finance those and also opportunities to stretch and augment existing supplies through innovative conservation, water reuse, desal ination and even weather modification strategies as well as water banking and opportunities for interstate, interregional and international cooperation. we appreciate the opportunity to testify. >> thank you. ms. meeker. >> madam chair, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. my name is melissa meeker, and i

am executive director of the south florida water management district. this agency is one of five regional agencies create to ensure a sustainable supply of water for florida citizens, environment and economy. in south florida this responsibility includes operating one of the world's largest flood control systems which protects 7.7 million people and delivers 1.4 billion gallons of water each day to support urban and agricultural uses. florida's water challenge is not necessarily a lack of water. nearly two-thirds of our fresh water supplied by vast underground aquifers and florida receives 3 receives 53 inches of rainfall a year. we have challenges. storage, florida is a flat landscape. and that means we have an inability to really capture and store rain water for future use. it's extremely limited. as a result, an average of 1.7 billion gallons of discharged daily through our canal systems to tide.

our second damage is weather extremes. florida is affected by tropical storms and hurricanes as well as extensive droughts and water shortages. just this year the region emerged from a four-year rainfall deficit. and because florida is largely surrounded by salt water, our drought commissions bring the -- threat of salt water intrusion. our third challenge is demand and competing uses. the statewide floridians use an average of 6.7 billion gallons a day. the projection for the year 2030 is 8.1 billion gallons per day. that means in the next 20 years, another 1.4 billion gallons a day must be identified and developed. planning for a growing population must also be in balance -- be balanced with ensuring water is available for our natural systems. water in the state of florida is a public resource. so strategies that expand our water supply must be in the public interest. we use a variety of tools to achieve this, including sound

planning and predictable permitting programs based embedded firmly in our state law, demand reductions, development of alternative water sources, and in south florida restoring the everglades which will result in more water for environmental, urban and agricultural users. in 2005 the florida legislature recognized the importance of developing alternative water supplies and adopted the water protection and sustainability program. more than $550 million in state funding have helped to construct 327 projects which will create an estimated 760 million gallons a day of new water. this is more than 50% of the additional water demands i previously described. to date more than 60% of those funded programs are for reclaimed water. this underscores the value of wastewater as a critical water resource rather than a disposal challenge as historically

viewed. reclaimed water can safely be used for irrigation, ground water recharge, salt water intrusion barriers, environmental enhancement and other beneficial uses. florida's a leader in water reuse. the state's total reused capacity has increased more than 300% since 1986. statewide there are more than 480 facilities collectively reusing 660 million gallons a day of reclaimed water. this is supplementing our water supplies by the billions. florida's efforts go even further. three years ago, state lawmakers directed the elimination of ocean outfalls by 2025. preventing this discharge of wastewater to the oceans will generate an estimated 178 million gallons of reclaimed water that can be used in some of our most highly-populated areas in southeast florida. we cannot talk about water in south florida without talking about environmental restoration. they are intrinsically linked. the largest of our efforts is a state-federal partnership to restore america's everglades. the comprehensive everglades

restoration plan is constructing large public works like storage reservoirs and treatment wetlands to improve water deliveries to the everglades and our coastal eco-systems. new water will be set aside for the environment first and then made available for other purposes. while restoration is under way, federal agency coordination, congressional authorizations for shovel-ready projects and continued federal and state funding are critical to maintaining our momentum. in summary, florida's water managers are successfully using a variety of tools -- but to maintain progress we must commit to financial and political investments that support community infrastructure improvements, innovative technologies, enhanced agency coordination especially in the face of budgetary challenges, and partnerships like the comprehensive everglades restoration plan. the long-term benefits particularly that of a healthy and sustainable economy truly outweigh the costs. chairman thank you again for convening this hearing.

i appreciate the invitation to share florida's perspective and we look forward to a national dialogue on these issues. >> thank you very much. harry, i'm not going to call you mr. stewart. i know you well enough to call you harry. >> the last time we met it was in a smaller room than this. >> that's right. >> thank you for the opportunity, madam chair, to be here and talk about water resource issues with you. to me, sustainability in terms of public water supplies is a matter of the water resource itself, the infrastructure that conveys, stores and treats that water, the financial resources have to be in place and also the management capability. and those are all very important issues. new hampshire, as you indicated, is the rapid -- the most rapidly-growing state in new england. in fact the state has doubled in population in 50 years and is projected to increase another 20% or 260,000 people in the next 20 years. so that certainly presents a

challenge for us in terms of our water resources. about 36% of the population is supplied water at residences by private individual wells. those aren't really a topic in terms of the sustainability issue broadly, but they are an issue in new hampshire and other states. now for example, in new hampshire 20% of those wells we know have arsenic exceedances. they're underregulated. we have education outreach to those folks but it certainly is a public health issue in new hampshire and those states. but community public water supplies in new hampshire, the 721 of them. 100 or so are municipality systems. those have been pretty much fixed and they're older systems. some go back 150, 160 years. it's been 10 or 15 years since i've heard of a piece of wooden pipe coming out of the ground but we do have wooden pipe

actually still in the ground. those systems are old. they're in pretty good shape in terms of compliance with the safe drinking water act. but there are quantity issues, supply issues going forward, and infrastructure -- more broadly infrastructure issues that need to be addressed. the other 600 or so are community supplyies that have grown up like mushrooms across the state during the growth spurt that is have occurred over the last 350 yea50 years. the old of of those are undermanaged, other financed. they have trouble with compliance with the safe drinking water act. when they are upgraded the affordability is a major issue for the community, particularly if it's a low-income community. so those are a major concern in the broadest sustainability context. we know in new hampshire that

there's 1.7 billion in infrastructure needs for drinking water supply. we did a needs survey this past year to feed information into a sustainability commission. that's a very substantial figure. other water infrastructure needs for wastewater, municipal and state-owned dams and storm water infrastructure are comparable in the 1.4 or $5 billion range accumula accumulative cumulatively. climate change is affecting our drinking water supplies. and it is a real issue. for example, over the last five years the lamprey river near where you live, senator, seven of the 15 highest flows on record have occurred.

and the record is 100 years old. so we're very clearly seeing more volatility with regard precipitation events. going forward new hampshire has a number of initiatives that are trying to address the sustainability question. the governor this year, governor lynch, commissioned a commission to develop water sustainability plan for the state of new hampshire. this is in its early throes, but the focus is on a long term and how to make sure that we're prepared for the future in terms of water resources, sustainability. we also have a commission that's working on the infrastructure, sustainability in the context of funding. this is a legislative commission. and we hope that coming out of 2012 they'll have -- there'll be a direction in terms of some

funding source to help with the question of affordability for the community water supplies and the wastewater plants in particular. we also have two other initiativ initiatives. since 1998 when you were governor, we've had a large ground water withdrawal permitting program. this has evolved over time. it's a very transparent program. so when withdrawals occur, there's two public hearings. considerations in terms of approvals include the long-term rate of replenishment of the aquifer if that's going to be affected. if there's effects on wetlands or surface water flows that could cause a violation of the clean water act, the spread of ground water contamination. all these factors as well as impacts on other uses are considered. this is a very sophisticated

program. it's certainly state-of-the-art nationally. our effort is different than texas. they're localized but it's a very effective program. we also have an inner stream flow protection pilot program going on this. was supposed to last five years. it's taken ten. it's going to end in 2012. to look at how to build a consensus on water use in a river basin and balance the interests of diverse users along with the environmental considerations to make sure that environment is reasonably protected also. so i think new hampshire is moving forward. we've made good progress towards a sustainable water supply over the long term. we have a long way to go. i think it's important to note that federal funding is integral to this. we need the federal dollars in terms of drinking water state resolving fund, the clean water

state revolving fund and other monies for research and planning that have been available historically. some are at risk at the moment. and those are very important and critical to us and the other states going forward. thank you for this opportunity. >> thank you very much. well, we have at least three major regions of the country represented, i think, on the panel today. four if we count you, dr. glick, as being part of the pacific coast. and i think most of you, i'll put you in a separate category, mr. stanley, because you're really representing industry. but i think you've all said in different ways what mr. willardson put so well when you said that we need a higher public priority on water use in this country. and so i'd like to ask you all to go back to that question. how do we get more public attention to water use in this

country and attention to address the kinds of challenges that each of you are really working on to address water use and both the scarce resources and the technologies that are available to make sure we have the water that we need in this country? so mr. willardson, would you like to go first on that since you put it so well? >> we can credit drought with getting a lot of attention in texas right now. and they are looking at their water management. in fact i think intermittent shortages have always been a catalyst to try and change policies. i think at this point we have -- we've talked about the need for a national water policy. we think that should not be equated with a federal command and control structure that's pushed down from the top. but really would have to be

built on local watersheds and also state policies and using those as building blocks towards a national policy. and we think that can be used to -- in support of federal program should be used in support of those efforts. i think there is a need for public education and a realization of the value of water and the fact that we pay a lot more for our cell phone bills generally than we do for our water bills. and what's more important to us? >> mr. glick, you also talked about the need for a national policy on water, which i think can be defined in different ways. mr. willardson pointed out that we're not talk about a command and control of a regulatory regime per se but more a national strategy. would you agree with that? or do you think we're looking at something else? >> i would. let me make two comments. first, as mr. willardson said and as ben franklin said many, many years ago, we learn the worth of water when the well runs dry.

we tend to forget it when the well fills up again. that's part of our problem. but there is a growing awareness about water issues. and despite differences of opinion about environmental issues, the american public considers water to be the most important environmental challenge and has consistently for many many years. people care about water. you asked the first panel, do we have a national water policy. we do have a national water policy. maybe we don't think we do, but there's a dede facto national water policy in combination with the laws we've passed around water and water management, the strategies of the different agencies. there are federal responsibilities. and the challenge going forward is going to be to better integrate an manage those federal responsibilities. to leave the local issues to local agencies, to state issues to state agencies, to help at the federal level when help is

appropriate. but there are important federal responsibilities. and that's what an integrated national water policy could look like. and my written testimony goes into more detail. let me just say one specific thing. it's time to rewrite the clean water act and the safe drinking water act. those are foundational federal laws about water. and they were great, and they're important and they're out of day. and they need to be rewritten. and it's this body that needs to do it. >> we could spend the next three weeks talking about that. but do you want to talk a little more specifically? as you say we need to rewrite them because they're out of date. are there any particular areas in mind that you want to refer to when you say that? >> sure. two in particular. for the clean water act, we've done a pretty good job of dealing with what we call point sources of pollution. we could do a better job at enforcement. but a pretty good job.

an we've done a very bad job at dealing with non-point source pollution. and many of the remaining serious water quality problems in our rivers and lakes are non-point sources. nitrates, phosphates, a whole series of things that you're aware of. we need to deal with that. and on the safe drinking water side, we have a remarkable tap water system in this country. a tap water system much of the rest of the world wishes they had. but it's not as good as it could be. it's not as good as it should be. there's new contingentechnology. general electric has developed it and a lot of of other companies have developed it to produce any quality tap water we want from any quality wastewater we might produce. we can restore the tap water system in this country. it's an investment worth making. and it's an investment that we're going to be sorry we didn't make if we don't move forward on it. >> thank you. ms. meeker or harry, would either of you like to add to

those nonprofits. >> i agree with dr. glick on the non-point source question. the clean water act does not address that well. we see that in great day, in new hampshire, where permits for municipalities are going to get ratcheted up for nitrogen removal. without the non-point source improvements, that's not going to matter to great bay. so i think that's a very important point. and the clean water act we've talked about it for years. need to be overhauled eventually. >> ms. meeker? >> thank you. just a comment on a national dialogue. not sure if i would go so far as to say we need a policy. but in terms of a national dialogue, two key areas where i think we could use additional coordination and public education was one of those as mentioned. as we further technologies it's very difficult to explain some of those technologies to the

public. and they need to understand them in order to support their governmental entities and utilities moving forward with those technologies. so that's the first. >> give me an example of what you're talking about. >> he just talked about wastewater, creating -- you can do that whole wastewater, treat it to the point where it's actually drinkable. there are -- that's the two extremes. we have many areas in between. and without that public education and public involvement an understanding treatment technologies, getting them to understand those issues is very difficult. so that's an area i think where our federal agencies could really help us. and the second is in the technology development. research is one. an individual utility can't necessarily go out and research something on their own. but having the federal agencies work with either their own agencies or other not for profits who specialize in those types of things is exactly the

type of area where i think you could certainly help us. >> thank you. mr. stanley, do you see as you're looking at the work that g.e. is doing, are there any breakthrough technologies that are going to make a dramatic difference as we're looking at some of the challenges we face to address clean water? >> breakthrough technologies in the eye of the beholder. you asked the question earlier about have we made any significant advances. and i thought ms. castle gave a nice answer in that reverse osmosis is a technology that's been around for a lot of years. but when you look at the details, in fact we have made quite a number of improvements. many of those have been made by g.e. and some other advances by competitors. but the net result is that there's been significant advances there. we continue. i have a team that's dedicated to reverse osmosis and looking for improvements in the membrane

technology and the module design, et cetera, to try and improve that. so whether you would characterize that as a breakthrough technology or a more incremental or transformational improvement of technology, we are looking at all of the device that is we sell, the chemical treatments that we provide, how we integrate those into solutions. and we see tremendous progress as we look at our development efforts as we go forward. so yeah, i'm very bullish on the opportunity for technology to continue to make improvements and provide solutions for customers. >> and are there areas either in the united nations or around the world where you're working with governments to address specific water challenges where you've seen success? >> well, in the u.s. we have an arrangement with the university of new mexico that's a government-funded program

looking at brackish water reck mak reck thaes reck la makes. we work with the government of singapore. very progressive. i think others mentioned how progressive singapore is with their water programs. we have a new research center. we have a collaboration with the national university of singapore and activity world trade center public utility board in singapore. so very aggressive there. and we also have a number of activities in israel. we're on the boards of incubators there and we work with small companies in israel. so we have a number of activities around the world. >> good. ms. meeker, i want to go back to your testimony where one of the things you talked about was the restoration of the florida everglades. are there lessons there that have been learned that you think can apply to other restoration projects either in the u.s. or around the world? one of the things that there's been a lot of attention to has been what's happened in louisiana at the mouth of the mississippi where so much destruction of the delta there

has increased the impact from hurricanes and storms. have you learned anything in the everglades that has application there or other places? >> do you have a couple days? >> i know. we're getting short on time here. >> yes. excellent question. and certainly could take up a lot of time. i'll say something. yes, i think we've learned a lot. and at the top of the list of our lessons learned is interagency coordination. the federal regional state local partnerships that have been formed so that it's not a single entity that has to keep the ball rolling i think is critical. and i think that fits with any issue, any technological issue or any major challenge which we are trying to face. it's about establishing those relationships, working together, trusting each other and seeing what the end goal is and focusing on that. not always easy to do, but certainly our top priority. >> good. thank you.

harry, you mentioned and as did dr. glick the non-point source pollution and waste to address that. can you talk about some of the ways that that pollution has effectively been addressed? and perhaps, dr. glick, you could also respond or anyone else who has been looking at those kinds of challenges and has found successful ways to address them. i have a personal stake at this because i live in the area that mr. stewart was talking about. and i'm in one of those communities where we have septic systems and no community water supply. and so the pollution is effecting not only the ground water but the great bay that comes in from the ocean. >> there are some opportunities. the university of new hampshire storm water center is one area that has been doing a lot of research in this area.

and basically there are ways to treat storm water to improve its quality. and also to reduce the flow of storm water into surface waters by technologies such as pervious pavement and the like to reduce the impact of storm water onto surface water. so we don't have all the answers at this point. i think nationally it's a problem and a challenge. but there are these relatively low technologies solutions that are developing and evolving to address these issues. >> thank you. dr. glick? >> i would add there are lots of successes out there. the pacific institute actually today released a series of agricultural farm success stories from the western u.s., some of which look at the issue of water quality improvements. we can improve water quality and reduce ag runoff for example by

improving the efficiency of water use in agriculture. you apply less water and less water runs off. you can put in place policies to reduce the application of chemicals. and that redouses the chemical runoff that results. dealing with capo, combined animal feeding of racials which this country has moved toward in the agricultural area. that's a very serious water challenge. it's to some degree becoming a point source if you will but they're not adequately regulated. i'd just point out, we talk about the hundreds and hundreds of millions of people worldwide without access to safe drinking water. there are people without access to safe drinking water in the united states. it's largely as you note, senator, people in rural communities with a dependence on local wells where those wells are not monitored, they're not protected. they're vulnerable to the kinds of non-point source problems that we've been talking about. and it's another example of where modifications of federal

laws could improve public health, improve public safety improve the quart of water and reduce some of these challenges. >> thank you. one of the things that many of you have mentioned is the effect of climate change and these increasing weather emergencies on our water systems and our water supply. are any of you working on planning to address those additional emergencies? i think ms. meeker you talked a little bit about that. but what kind of planning are you doing to address those challenges? and how do you get the public bought in to the efforts that you're looking at? dr. glick, do you want to answer that first? and then maybe i could ask the other panel members if they could respond. >> we do a lot of work on the

impacts of climate change on water resources and how to adapt to unavoidable impacts of climate change in the water area. there are more and more examples of water agencies taking responsibility for designing new infrastructure, not for yesterday's climate but for future climate. there was an interesting story about rebuilding the rail line north of new york city, washed out by an extreme event, a hurricane, and doing it to a different standard to take into account both future sea level rise and a higher risk of severe storms. there is a realization that our water systems are both vulnerable, but also can be protected if we think about rebuilding them and redesigning them now rather than waiting for the future. we're thinking about reoperating reservoirs in california because we're losing snow pack, which is a very important storage -- natural storage. that's happening in the rocky mountains area as well. there are lots of examples. but it's a very slow process. we're way behind the curve.

an water agencies are just trying to now figure out what the most effective things to do might be. >> thank you. mr. stanley, are you working on that anywhere in the world? >> not directly. obviously as climate change happens, as water becomes scarce and more problematic in regions we try and develop products that will be useful and helpful for customers. but that's our response, really. >> thank you. mr. willardson? >> well, i would just mention that climate is just one of the uncertainties that we face. >> sure. >> and in mentioning both drought and the flooding that we've seen in the west, are a product of natural variability. and we've had to deal with that. and you do that by diversifying your supplies, by conserving water, trying to manage demands, and taking what really are no regret strategies. water management tool that is make sense, anyway. >> thank you. ms. meeker?

>> the two areas where we have focused on have been in our infrastructure improvements for our coastal structures, where at one time they were gravity structures. you could just open them an let the water flow off the land. as sea level has inched up, literally, we have -- when we refurbish those structures they now become mechanical structure toss force the water out. so that's the first one. the second is as we see that sea level rise, we see a higher tendency or possibility for salt water intrusion in our ground water wells. so that's a key area that we watch very closely. we're working with usgs and the sampling and everything else and the utilities to watch the salt water levels in those wells. we have moved wells away from the coastal area. we use our coastal structures to keep water levels in the canals higher to recharge the aquifers

to create a head to keep that salt water out. so we continue to work with that literally every day. >> and a number of people have mentioned the importance of data as you're trying to make these decisions. do you feel like you have adequate data? and do you also have adequate ways to either regulate or innocent compliance with those needs? >> absolutely, yes. we have extensive sampling program throughout south florida, both in ground water and surface water. and look at every bit of information you can imagine we're collecting it. we also have a very active regulatory program which includes compliance. so two very key areas that we focus on to ensure that we have the right information to make the right decisions. >> thank you. and harry? >> from a data perspective, our stream gauge network is shrinking when it should be expanding due to funding. that's a combination in new

hampshire of a gradual federal attrition but also state match for stream gauges. and as we get these tropical storms and hurricanes such as irene that came up the coast, we have people that are looking real time at what's going on in the state. and we need those stream gauges for that purpose. as far as other changes in our programs, we have changed our criteria for culvert design. so new culverts are being designed to a higher standard, to 100-year storm event which is probably no longer a 100-year storm event. the other thing that's happening in new hampshire is that it's something that engineers and scientists have known. but i think that there's a shift in the population where there's finally a recognition that we can't keep building in flood plains because they do flood.

>> thank you. well, again, i know several of you have planes to catch. and while we could go on much longer, because it's fascinating topic and obviously one that we need to pay more attention to, i want to thank you all very much for your testimony for being here. and as i said, i think it's a topic that we will come back to. because obviously there ace lot more work to do. so again, thank you very much. this hearing is closed.