file not at the summations sometimes there is a clerical error and look at the financial disclosure. look at when something dramatic was happening health care reform, the housing crisis and seek are they the act -- active stock trader? look at the stock transactions to see are they on the senate banking committee? if there is a crossover because that is where you will get access to sensitive information if you have oversight over a particular area. . .

that is just perfect. it's two blocks away, and so this goes on with both parties in both cases and look and see if the earmarks and see if there's a pattern and then i would encourage you to contact your elected officials and asked them what they think of the stock act, whether they are going to vote on it and that is a law that now has 174 co-sponsors. before the book on 60 minutes it had six so you haven't seen the response it has gotten from them. exclusively it is against the federal law for professional insider trading and then i would ask you to look at his second law called the restrict act, which is introduced by congressman duffy from wisconsin, a tea party guy who

won recently and that would give elected officials an option, not because this is a good till, either they took it from the blind trust or if they don't do that they need to disclose all trades within three business days so you would have pretty much instantaneous, and i think that is a great hill. i would ask them to support those two bills or something related to those two bills. right? great. [applause] >> of course we do have copies of the book if you want to sign them here. they are for sale outside but i know peter will be glad to talk to you further. he is not a good enthusiastic. thank you for joining us today and we will see you on a future occasion. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] for more information visit the author's web site, peter schweizer.com. >> in 2002 booktv took a tour of shakespeare and company, and almost 60 euro bookstore in paris on by american ex-pat george wittman. mr. wittman passed away on december 14, 2011, at the age of 98. you can watch that two or an interview with mr. wittman, his daughter sylvia, employees and patrons of shakespeare and company next on booktv. it's about 15 minutes. >> shakespeare and company look stores located near notre dame cathedral in paris.

inside, the 90-year-old owner george wittman and his 21-year-old daughter, sylvia beach wittman. george wittman has provided logic in his bookstore for aspiring writers since the early 1960s. >> in 1950 when my father was visiting paris, he fell in love with -- and he decided he wanted to stay here. and he found this place, and he came into some inheritance. he decided to buy the shop which only started as the ground floor next year, not the antiquarian or the other floors. and it was called litmus tile,

and so it was 1950 and then it was renamed shakespeare and company, and they think in 1960 or late early 1960s, after sylvia beach shakespeare. she is the one that i am named after. >> who was she? >> sylvia beach was a very incredible person. she is very determined. she is famous primarily for publishing james joyce ulysses, and there is a wonderful book called sylvia beach and the lost generation, and it describes how contact with the lost generation and what the bookshop was like and how philosophy, which i think my father has continued to an extent helping penniless

writers and supporting artists who don't really have the money to support themselves. so yes, i think she kind of supported a lot of people like hemingway and joyce and she had quite an incredible cycle of for -- circle of writers around her. >> why did you come to paris in the first place? >> it was just an accident. i just came for a holiday and i liked it here. before i came to paris i had already wintered around the world and i thought this was, this became my favorite part right here in this little corner of paris, the lower bank between the notre dame cathedral in front of us and two cathedrals in back of us.

it's a very picturesque neighborhood. >> what are the rules about people who stay here? >> well people who stay here, initially it was solely for writers, who wish to stay in paris, which is such a charming city and has so much history in writing, and so initially it was just for writers that wanted to have a bed and in return they would work for about an hour in the shop a day and write their biography. but now, there is a whole mix of people that stay here as artists, as writers. their people that are just traveling by, but it is mainly people who have interest in literature who want to read in the library and people who are writing their novels or short

stories or something. >> my name is brian from washington d.c.. i learned about the bookstore when i was reading ulysses, the front cover mentioned a little of the history of the printing of the book and that bookstore over there is the original one by sylvia beach which no longer exists but i did find his place in george was kind enough to give me this desk every afternoon to right. so that is what i do. i come here every afternoon and rights in this atmosphere books and learning. >> are you in school? >> no, school was many years ago. i am actually preparing to two -- to travel in south america. my wife is from paris so we are using this time in paris to catch up on things. >> what is the advantage of sitting here writing? >> it's hard to find a place in paris to write. it's a tight city, but just being around the books, the reference in george is encouraging to writers.

he has a long history of helping writers so it is rewarding in all these guys ask me questions and bug me all day. i get a page a week than. >> hello, i am from barcelona spain and i got here. i was from berlin and going to barcelona. i knew i wanted to end up mike trip in paris as i have been going around and i just think paris is the the seminal place to go to museums. while i'm here i get to talk to people from all over the world. at the same time i can research my own writing and paintings by going out and finding amazing people. george has been really nice to me and be like his tank takes on sunday. >> do you cook also for everybody? >> i do most of the cooking but this last soup was my daughter's contribution.

potatoes and leeks. >> what is your philosophy on putting people up overnight? >> well it is just a simple gesture. i mean, if i gave -- if i'm in einstein and gave the world a wonderful, but i am not einstein. i'm just a simple person and all i can do is give them a bed and offer people a cup of tea on sundays and that is about all i do. >> how many people do you have a night total? >> i think five is about the best, five or six. >> and who do you give a bed to? >> well we feel that being the host we should give it to someone trying to write a book, so we give people like that a priority. otherwise, all we asked them to do is make their bed. sometimes we have students saying here to help clean up the bookstore. >> how long do you let them

stay? >> well they are supposed to stay just one week that one guy stayed five years. >> did he work for you? >> no, he was a writer. >> my name is john young young and i'm from charleston south carolina. i hear it about shakespeare and company through another expatriate i met by accident. i've been coming to paris since 1975. i can't believe it took me this long to find this place. i think maybe it was because i was not ready. within the first 15 minutes the way george introduced me to silvie and took me to the tea party, i fell in love with him and her in and this place. that is the end of my involvement here. i will still -- stay here as long as i'm useful in the moment i am not i will sure find another way. >> what is the tea party? >> every sunday 4:00 to six.they open to the general public. everything is given back to paris. the shortest trips i take to paris or when i walk out the front door every day.

it's not the same as anywhere else i have ever been. it's an awaits us. i like to think of it as a communal hierarchy in georgia's arcane. >> who is the most famous writer who is ever stayed here? >> a lot of creative writers have stayed here. allen ginsburg is pretty well-known i think and lawrence ferlinghetti is pretty well-known and janda prima, some english writer's. >> my name is robin king and i'm from grand forks north dakota. i ended up here kind of by accident as well. we were actually in the middle of a trip throughout europe and we started in paris. now we are ending in paris and when became the first time we ran into some people who are staying here in exchange for work and a short biography for george. they said if you come back to paris and you need a place to stay, we will have become back. we came back and i'm not the

reader or a writer by nature but this place is very encouraging for that side of me. it encourages me to want to ride into want to read and i am very comfortable here. i have never been so at home at a bookstore ever but we are staying for about a week. i know i will come back definitely and i will suggest it to his many friends as i know that will calm to paris and go to shakespeare. >> my name is calling kerry and i'm from cleveland ohio and they started and get shakespeare and company when george offered me a place. when i walked in kind of as a client but okay. and i love the atmosphere and love books, but having a book that i want to read within grasp of anywhere that i stand in the bookstore. >> we have bestsellers. obviously we have a lot of writing from the lost generation writers, the generation writers, contemporary writers. we mainly deal with fiction.

we also have philosophy, psychology, theater of course and the spanish section, russian section, german, italian, not many french books unfortunately, and we have this room which is the antiquarian, which has quite valuable in very interesting books. >> your daughter, 21 years old, going to run this place for you? >> well, she has -- she thinks she has inherited the beauty of elizabeth taylor. she is not used to any real work. so i'm worried about the future of the bookstore. i am worried that she is

invested in acting and she is not a very good housekeeper. >> it is unusual that a 21-year-old has a 90-year-old father. >> yes, of course. >> would have the what are the bandages and disadvantages? >> well, first everyone says you mean your grandfather? no, no, my father. know, know your grandfather. no one seems to be able to take that and, but i think it has a huge advantage because he has so many stories to tell, and he is a real inspiration. it made me realize that life doesn't stop when you turn 70 or even 80. he is 90 and he works harder than me, which probably isn't hard. i think people often ask, what

do you think his secret is and i think it's the fact that he is surrounded by books which is his passion and also he is surrounded by a lot of young people, so it kind of keeps him alive and is a great buzz for life. i find them quite inspiring in that way. >> i just think that this place in general like a lot of people have come through and have not been nearly as bookish when they walked in the door as when they walk out. when you live with books, you find them, the beauty in them. >> i have always had a very very vast array of interest. here i just feel so small but there are days when i feel like i almost know everything by talking to the people in listening to stories and reading a lot but there other times you feel like all these books are going to crash in. then you meet the people who tell you it's a matter free searching and finding a way and is very symbolic to me, being

among so many voices in so many books. >> is she the only child you have? >> and a way, she is the only one. in another way i have thousands of children all over the world. >> she came a little late in life for you, didn't she? >> not for me. i'm just beginning to live. when i am 100 years old i will tell you more interesting stories than i have just told you about. >> and are you going to stay here do you think for the rest of your life? >> i couldn't say, but i would love to. i love paris. i love the book shop and it's such a great opportunity to meet completely diverse people, so it's a fantastic place. i love acting and this is a

theater in itself. >> does the store now made money every year? >> the store, well, i mean my father knows more about that than i do. i mean it seems to, this kept going for 50 years which is quite amazing in a way because it is run quite haphazardly. i think you know it does have a wonderful position next to notre dame, but there are also a lot of problems here that need to be fixed and organized.

next, from 2010 christopher hitchens reflects on his personal and public life in his memoir, "hitch 22". mr. hitchens was interviewed a bookexpo america, the annual book publishing trade show held in new york city. mr. hitchens died on december teen, 2011. >> christopher hitchens who talked you into doing an autobiography? >> i see geared it may well up in the person who wrote my obituary by accident in the catalogue of the portrait gallery in london a couple of years ago. it was an exhibit about rude people, friends of mine sort of said if you like and in the catalogue copy it refers to the late christopher hitchens.

they were terribly upset and they said don't worry, we will pop the whole thing and i said no no i want several copies of that. nothing focuses the mind then you do about the past tense. it immediately of salt any -- when i was asked to do a memoir which was his net to really? i can't leave until it's too late so there was that and then then -- excuse me. i told myself -- because i didn't much mind being 40 or 50. i barely notice it but 60 hit me harder than i thought it would. i end up having described a lot of commitments i have had in my life and a lot of ideological battles that i've taken part in. with the general conservancy

against purity, gives consistency if you like. i'm no longer -- but i'm associated with a group of skip dix. skeptics who are sure of one thing which is nothing is for sure and are absolutely certain about the uncertainty principle so my "hitch 22" is my commitment to doubt. so that is the idea. and then, there was a game. i have a lot of work games in the book, some of them very pure indeed, schoolboy humor but getting better as time goes on. one of them is a game invented by salman rushdie where you have to think of of the book title that didn't quite make it. for whom the bell rings for example or mr. shabaab go or good expectations was another

one, a farewell to weapons, and one that he contributed actually was "hitch 22". i thought yes, i think i might borrow that. >> deficit came in your book. why? >> yes. because i begin with my obituary. at the accidental obituary. then because it is not a biography exactly but i thought that they have to do one chapter each about their parents. and, death i'm afraid it's a big subject they are because my mother took her own life in a very tragic circumstances. dramatic circumstances that i describe in my father was in the war business. he was a lifelong naval officer who had a very tough war and i was right up battalion. chiefly british valor at the. and on land and in the air i mean you know. i can't remember how old i was

until i realized all television come all books and all films were not about the second world war. i thought they were. >> you have a chapter about your mother, yvonne. >> yes, that was her name. that was what i used to call her. she liked it. because it is a nice name. and it's the way when i think about her, i don't think mommy. i think yvonne. we were very close and i used to think, because we came from a slightly drab english society so lower middle class with aspirations, naval and military and my mother was a sort of failed milliner. she kept trying to open dress shops and never it never quite made it. and so, the wives of my brothers

were called ethel or marjorie or nancy are things like that i.r.a. side when i was little yvonne had a touch of class to it, little bit more cosmopolitan perhaps, that more stylish, at the morse fourier. i described her as the gin in the tonic in the cream and the coffee. she was cheerful and humorous and one said to me that really the only unforgivable sin was to be boring. which has haunted me all my life. fear of becoming a bore or being bored, stark terror, tedium. [inaudible] >> yes, it's with me always. i mean, i think it's probably the most devastating word one can use against somebody or risk having used against yourself. don't be boring. >> this book is full of names, boldface names as i say. i'm just going to throw some out

and have you respond. mark amos. who is he and what is his relationship to you? >> as i'm sure a lot of your audience know, a brilliant novelist both of humor and of gravity. he has written novels about the holocaust and about the gulag archipelago but he is also written his best known one called money, which is the study of anglo-american degeneracy at the cusp of the 1980s. in which i appear once or twice, fairly heavily disguised. and he is my best friend and has been since we were in our 20s. a chapter of the book is basically a love letter to martin. i say in that chapter the question i am trying to answer is, phrase it like this, can you

have a heterosexual relationship with another guy? i don't know whether you can or not but i decided to give it the old college try. and i described my writing, the way in which we used to have very long languorous, very tender, very intense discussions about women, the inexhaustible subject. and i show how you can make lead into gold as i describe a visit we both made to a terrible massage parlor brothel in new york which he had to go to because his character and money had to go to expose himself there. it was fieldwork and it was the most intensely sordid and horrible and depressing, shameful really, morning of my life i think. and for him to med. absolutely ghastly. you can read it in money and i

even give the page reference. i thought when i read that section, the fiasco in the massage parlor i thought well, that whole morning has totally been redeemed. is become literature which almost proves you can get lost time back and feel it wasn't squandered after all. so i i don't know if i'm giving away hands but he has been a great source of enthusiasm and risk and so on in my life. >> james fenton. you dedicate the book to him. >> james change my life when i met him at oxford in the late 60s. we were exact contemporaries. he is i think easily the finest poet writer of english at least of his generation now, and probably best known for the poems he wrote from indochina. it's a surprising thing when you

think about it. there's almost no poetry generated by the vietnam war or if there is there a sense of poem that anybody knows as they have poems from other wars. the best is written by james and i quote some of it. and he as well as martin and a few others taught me that there was more to writing and more to journalism than polemic. i used to think that the test of a good article was how well i would argue the case and how well i would sort of lay out the arguments for the left, how bad i could make the right wing look, how i marshal the arguments. it was all very didactic and james like he was very much to the left. imagine how the article was written, making every word count, using iron and other statements in humor. we actually been wrote a couple of articles together. and he was immensely influential

on me in that way. partly influential in my becoming boring to resort to the deathtrap subject. >> peters said work perk -- peter sedgwick. >> yes, peter sedgwick. he was a marxist intellectual of a rarified kind. in other words, he was one of those people who was of the left of the left, the left against the left, very anti-stalinist, very much against some of the cult figures of the 60s like herbert mark uzoh and already lange who had been much bandied about. they were conjuring names when i was beginning to cut my teeth. he thought the 60s were a bit of a false promise. the counterculture didn't and just him very much. he was a scientist, a psychiatrist. he believed in objectivity. wasn't easily swayed. introduced me to the dissident marxist tradition of writing,

rosa luxemburg, troske, george orwell and the great clr james the great west indian historian who wrote the best, really the only book on the haitian revolution called -- a fantastic look about a slave rebellion in haiti. also incidentally was the best writer on cricket being produced by the british empire. an odd thing for a revolutionary to be doing but that was a thing about peter. he introduced you to idiosyncratic types, the sort of tradition of the revolutionary left that got buried by the stalin pact and by the cold war. and which was, had something of a revival. >> salman rushdie. >> well, zelman was -- i read a whole chapters to him and his cause because i was just getting to know him. i had become a friend of his when he suddenly became even

more famous than he thought he was going to become, even more well-known for his writing all in one go rather unfortunately. and getting an incredibly bad review from the ayatollah khomeini. it was not intended a bad review and offered money and his own name to support someone smarter. an unbelievable fundamental attack on civilization so for many years he had to go into hiding and be off the map. and there were a number of us who are proud to be his friend at that time, sort of arranged to keep in touch with him, to keep up his spirits. he was afraid at one point not so much that they would find him and kill him but the effort of staying alive would mean he couldn't write. it turns out he was wrong to fear that. he has written a lot since then. he is very emblematic figure of the 20th century, the idea of intellectual migrants, the person who is at home in two continents. it's incredible to me that

english is only a second language. his first language is urdu. he writes it, i would say speaks it better than any native speaker does. and as i say, he originally improve the level of our childish, school boyish word games. i will give you an example. he was once asked without any preparation, what would a shakespeare play be titled if robert -- i won't tell you how that came up, takes too long but picture if you will a shakespeare play. zelman said okay try me. hamlet. he said, -- unbelievably clever. i said all that you can do that twice. macbeth, say. deforestation. for the kerchief implication,

the rialto sanction, like that. gary samore in the book. he has a real hold on english literature. he loves it and really knows it. and in addition, but is as if that wasn't enough, he has become one of the great symbolic figures and the battle of free expression, which never ends. we never thought perhaps it would have to defend the first amendment against such an incredibly fantastically violent fundamental, literary fundamental assault that i think it was right to notice that the hour struck when it did. proud to have had anything to do with that. >> taking the citizenship test. >> oh yes. shortly after 9/11, i realized i had been living in the states for a long time, more than two

decades, nearly three. at a green car that was so old it didn't have an expiration date on it. it was one of those old ones they used to get out, a platinum green card you might say. i had three american children, an american wife. it was unlikely i'd get deported. and i had a european union passport. i could have gone on like that happily being anglo-american for the rest of my days but i thought i was cheating on my dues. i really felt a strong solidarity with american society after that appalling attack on it just down the road from here. and, i began to feel much more like an american, even strangely to feel like a washingtonian. washington was more like my base i used to think. so i applied and well, it has gotten very hard to do the paperwork these days. they kept telling me to make appointments and then breaking them and putting them off but

anyway they sent me an exam, which i think even had the answers and it. questions you might be asked in an interview. and some of them are rather trivial, like what are the advantages of becoming an american citizen? he wanted to think there would be something noble could be said they are but he looked at the answers given by the officials and it said, you can apply for a job with the federal government and you can bring your relatives in from overseas. one would hope the united states could united states could say a bit more of itself the map. then there are questions where they must have been trying to be funny like against him did we fight against the american revolution? i think it's the use usurp the end family that -- but the correct answer is the british. so you have to get all that right. it was a bit distorted but i sat set up the night before not in any fear of failing the exam but

i just sort of read through the constitution and the bill of rights. and i have a section in there about how you can read off the whole history of america by looking at the dates of those amendments, the ways in which they came about and it's very nice because a it's nice in itself because it does demonstrate progress which sometimes you wonder about. second, we will have doubts about, this is such a great country for a writer because it is based on written documents, which are delivery they are in order to expose themselves to rewrite. they are a work in progress. they can be revised, so the words in the music of the words and the meaning of them and the legality of them are all very important and that is the unique privilege i think. then i was able by good luck to get the department of homeland

security to allow me to have my ceremony to take the oath at the jefferson memorial in washington d.c. on his birthday, the 13th of february which is also mine and i'd written a short biography of him. i held a copy of religious freedom which was one of the four things he wanted to be remembered for. and that was a wonderful day, it really was. >> sylvia plat. >> sylvia plath keeps on coming up in my story because she wrote about two things. she didn't write about suicide, she committed suicide but she is the invocation of an enormous number of books about female self-destruction. and i don't just write a chapter about my mother's suicide, but i also write a short chapter, reflections on suicide and the

plath story keeps coming up in that. and then in one of her most famous lines, it's in the bell jar. she describes her family coming from some manic-depressive hamlet and the german polish border lands, and it so happens that is where my mother's family comes from. it was at secret kept in my family for a long time. i didn't find it out out until i was about 30. but my mother's family was of jewish descent from what is now poland and is now germany. it is always very horrible when that order moves at any time. terrible things happen when that border changes. and i have a chapter on why i think it is that she kept it a secret from my father and from her two sons and from everyone she knew almost. she died before we could have a conversation and i make a trip. i go to poland and finds the

old -- and see if i can find any traces anywhere. no, to clean sweep. they're all dead. they have all been murdered by fascism. and so sylvia plath's concept of the manic-depressive hamlet becomes very alive to me on a trip. >> peter hitchens. >> peter hitchens is my younger brother. he was born two years after me. i used to not notice things about earth order but now i think it is quite important. and things for potential parents to think about. if you have a brother, actually he is more than 18 months younger than me, he is close to be a baby brother. but close enough to the arrival. for of all things, my mother's attention. my god, imagine how i must have felt. i don't remember it but i am

told i was very jealous and i can believe it. and his siblings we have been known to be very close. having lived in the same town since we were quite small. he lives in oxford now and he is a very well-known newspaper columnists and broadcaster in england. of the extreme right. and he is also very well-known as a christian believer. in fact he has even written a book. i hope you will do something about it. it is coming out this month or so, it's called the rage against god. the subtitle is how atheism -- your faith. it is an extended dialogue with me for my unbelief. and for me anyway the biggest difference i could have with anyone is all political differences absolutely dwarfed by the difference between those who believe there is a supernatural dimension and those

like me who did not and is the basis of all other arguments. that is where philosophy begins and that is where arguments about biology actually began to map. so, i have to say he is a very good writer. he is a hitchens after all. he is a very serious person. i think a bit more solemn than me perhaps. when i say right-winger mean generally right wing. in other words, people who regard things like -- for instance as a left/right one. iis think i have a wrong because in my experience anyway the iraqi and kurdish left were friends of mine who were in favor of saddam hussein and large numbers of the right, who were generally considered the same as chair of the isolationist conservative force in britain of which might brother is a part.

he at one point says the war in afghanistan is sort of the stupid left-wing war that only someone like my brother could possibly support. there is more truth in that i find then the chief allegatioallegatio n made that if you are in favor you have somehow become right wing. which i also tried to deal with in the book. why the chapter about my experiences in iraq going back to the 70s. >> on the back of your book are the typical blurbs that a book would have and christopher buckley for instance says that you are the greatest living essayist in the english language. >> very sweet of him. >> gore vidal, if you wish to nominate a center -- successor, i've decided to name christopher hitchens, that's on here but it is marked out. >> yes. >> gore vidal to get back. we had a falling out. he made i think the disgraceful

suggestion that it was an inside job in which the administration had taken part. that is more than a different set of politics. i find that unthinkable that sort of talk. and so, he made a couple of other sour remarks about me and at one point he seemed to suggest i'd made that statement up. at any rate it seemed to me he was taking a back so i thought well i won't wait for him to take it back. i will take a back i sell self but i did it in the -- away as i could. he is said he -- is viewed. i think he shall have one. >> chris hitchens. >> yes, the bane of my life. my ugly younger brother. i have tried to obliterate him. ever since i was small. if your next name is hitchens, chris hitchens means the h is about to go.

christopher is a nice name and chris is in. i that even though christopher buckley calls himself chris. i wish he wouldn't. kristof is exit what i call him. we compromise on that. people at school would try and call me that and in fact it can be very difficult in america because people here are fantastically friendly and they like to get to first name terms very fast and then shorten them to even more friendly almost before you have gotten to know them. the lessee quickly say actually i would read these they christopher you're going to sound like a snob or someone who is repudiating friendly advances. so it is a constant battle for me. and i think now i have one that because people don't call me chris any more. no one who knows me at all does an anyway a lot of my friends call me hitch atlas which is the other reason for the title. i discovered when i went to my

father's naval reunion, he took tuned -- me to a reunion of his old shipmates years ago before he died, rather touchingly. i think was the last reunion they were going to have, these old sea dogs and i notice they all called in hitch. i'd never known that with the poor and that was what my friends were beginning to call me. that is another reason, another fold or wrinkle in the title. >> what was the process of writing and memoirs like for you? >> well, it was a good bit harder than i expected it would be. and i try to work out why it was giving me such a hard time and there were two or three reasons i think. one, usually when i write i'm trying to make a case for put in an argument. not always but most of the time. at least i know exactly what i'm doing. i'm trying to describe a foreign country say as best i can.

i've done a fair bit of that. with this i am not making a case, not making an argument. so the start of writing gets a little softer perhaps if we are not careful, and then again, i would try to see how much they could pack into a given number of words, 5000 for an article say or as i -- as they might be more. how much you can press into this. when you are trying to remember things, if you are like me, who has a very good memory you very well could find out you remember more than you think you do. things start to balloon rather alarmingly. you are being very discursive and that was another difficulty. i turned an almost twice as much as the publisher originally asked for. i had never done that before. and then, of course you don't

know how it is going to end. to be exact how to end it. i had a very hard time wrapping it up. i didn't know really when i was done. in fact i'm not done. i wake up everyday thinking, should've should've put that in the or i should have put that differently but often than not something i remembered was too late to put them now. it gives me the blues but it is said to be good thing. if you are too intangible with the book it is probably still. if you are still writing it in your head it may have some -- hope so anyway. >> christopher hitchens, his memoir "hitch 22". >> christopher hitchens was a contributed editor to "vanity fair" magazine and a visiting professor of liberal studies at the new school. he is the author of over a dozen books including the missionary position, mother teresa and very and practice, why orwell matters, god is not great, how

religion poisons everything and his last, is 2010 memoirs, "hitch 22". mr. hitchens passed away on december 15, 2011. booktv covered several events with the late mr. hitchens available to watch on line at booktv.org including in depth from 2007, three hour interview discussing all of his books to date. and now a debate on atheism of christopher hitchens, author of god is not great and david berlinski, author of the doubles dilution. this event was hosted by the fixed.foundation in birmingham

alabama in 2010. christopher hitchens died on december 15, 2011. >> good evening. i am larry, the second drifter of fixed.validation and we welcome you to tonight's debate. the resolution being debated this evening is atheism poisons everything. now again this is the resolution this is the question being discussed. it is a corset play on the title. christopher hitchens best-selling book, god is not great, how religion poisons everything arguing the affirmative of the resolution is dr. david berlinski, a scientist, professor of mathematics and author of many books, most notably the doubles dilution, atheism and its scientific pretensions which is available and allow the and there will be a book signing so you'll have the opportunity to meet dr. berlinski.

are you in a negative on the resolution is christopher hitchens, cultural critic and best-selling author and most recently he is the author of the memoirs, "hitch 22". this is also a best-seller and also available in the lobby and you will have the same opportunity to meet christopher hitchens and you have your book signed by him. now i just a bit about the format for tonight's debate. first of all, there will be 12 minutes of opening statements by each of these men. dr. berlinski will be the first to speak and then of course christopher hitchens and we will have a rebuttal of six minutes each and then a speaker recap, that is to say some final remarks for that torsion of the debate, three minutes each. i will be timekeeping as we move

along and i am asking these gentlemen not to trample those time limits. and then we will move into a question and answer time. i asked some questions here which have been submitted and i will read them to the two of them and i will signal them at the end when they have received their last question, that they should then give some sort of closing statement. since dr. berlinski is going first, he will have the opportunity to go last. that being the case, we will now begin our debate and dr. david berlinski, please open for us. >> thank you all very much for being here. [applause] i would like to thank larry and the fixed.foundation for their outstanding hospitality.

and to christopher hitchens, my pleasure being allowed to bask in the radiance of his reputation and -- the proposition before us is atheism poisons everything. ladies and gentlemen i am perfectly aware and you should be too that proposition is fully compatible with the propositions that religions poison some things. where christopher hitchens and richard dawkins to announce that they were compared to invade held in order to rest a variety of them arrested priests, i would wish them well although for reasons of personal inconvenience i could not join them. [laughter] in some respects, as dr. johnson said, the proposition that atheism poisons everything

hardly requires a dissent. the inquiry is not needed he said. the last state of which atheism was a possibility in social and social thought was also the last date in which it was a possibility and social thought. i ask you to cast your mind back around 1790, 1791 in france, paris in front of the cathedral of notre dame and standing there somewhat elaborated by my historical allowed -- is the green eyed fanatical and l'enfant -- l'enfant and they are looking at notre dame and one guy says to the other, which you we'd do with this pile of gothic junk? and the answer is, let's rename it. good idea. each man was hoping they would call it after themselves but that was not to be. in robespierre, robespierre came

up with a wonderful idea. we will call at the temple of reason. good thinking his companion said. the temple of reason works splendidly. it means nothing but it works wonderfully. we might as well have called it the temple of evidence come the temple of rationality. what should we do next was the question and the inevitable answer from historical circumstances, let's go out and kill a whole lot of people and that is exactly what they did. once they had renamed notre dame the temple of reason, it was relatively easy to go out and kill 50,000 innocent men, women and children. that i submit to you is the nature of the proposition we are discussing. 1851, 60 or 70 years later, an age of remarkable progress, enlightenment, wonderful sense of possibility. matthew arnold in a poem entitled dover beach reflected on the decline of religious faith in europe, the melancholy

long withdrawing roar. he didn't see anything particularly optimistic in that withdrawal. and he could think to say to himself and to his readers only this, only this. my beloved, let us feature to one another. my beloved, true to one another. for the world which lies about it like so various, so beautiful, so new, has neither joy nor life nor loved nor suited to ignore peace no pain and we are called upon a dark plane swept by confused alarms of struggle and flight where ignorant armies clash all night. it's the prophetic declaration

from the heart of the progressive enlightenment in the 19th century. in 1914, surveying the carnage that was to come the foreign secretary of great britain said again prophetically, the lights are going out all over europe. delights. what a strange word. we shall not see the litigant in our time. ladies and gentlemen i submit to you that the 20th century was a record in germany, russia, china, cambodia and elsewhere, not only of remarkable stupidity, brutality and violence, but of unparalleled brutality and violence. each of the regimes, each of the regimes behind this remarkable decay of civilization had two features in common, two characteristics. in the first place, the men guiding these regimes and their

entourage, did not believe for a moment there was any power higher than their own. and they acted on the assumption. and in the second place, in the mass murders they conducted, they were aided and supported by any number of crack pot minds. that makes for a characteristic combination. the case of the nazis, scientific disciplines that arrive from especially darwinian biology. 1937 having 70,000 handicapped men women and children the nazis released a film and on the background of the film the narrator said in terms of solomon comprehension, my goodness, we have sindh against the law of natural selection. the law of natural selection. what could that mean? we have sinned against the law of natural selection.

the communist of course had an equally crack pot theory that they had derived. the to crack pottery is joining and deeply repugnant stream. as all of you know, atheism today is not simply the private doctrine of a handful of individuals and as a social movement, it has been advanced chiefly by the scientific community, certainly in the united states but to a large extent in europe too. some of this is adventitious. a few popular items which as richard dawkins discovered that by writing that science has shown that god does not exist, well they could made the fortune. i'm very sorry i wasn't there to join them. i didn't think of it at the time. i'm quite sure that someone now is writing a book, how marginal science shows that god does not exist but the inevitable

consequences of this degree of atheism within the scientific community has involved the defamation of scientific thought, quite striking in its character and its extent. after all, the sciences, if we restrict our attention to the theory of science and those may be found in mathematics or mathematical physics, then we must recognize that the serious sciences have nothing to say about the existence of god either in their premises or in their conclusion. what a remarkable fact, people are writing facts but has nothing to say about the existence of god. the aching question, the trouble of the human imagination, about which the science one seriously considers are resolutely silent. and the religious tradition,

especially the judeo-christian religious tradition, has offered a coherent body of belief and doctrine by which they can be explained. do we understand why the universe arose 14 million years ago? know we don't. do we understand why -- no we have not idea. do we understand how life emerged on earth? not a prayer right now. do we understand the complexity of life? we can even begin to describe a living creature and anything resembling precise terms. a recent article in science digest requires 4000 proteins acting together. what a remarkable statement. what a wealth of information we possess of our biology. what an abundant life of understanding we have about systems. doing to stand by the laws of nature are true? no, we have no idea. do understand the miracle of analytic continuation in physics when certain kinds of functions can be pushed forward to the future contrary to all experience?

.. >> wednesday see them like wildebeest across the plain it is reasonable to ask, are

they going some place or fleeing from someplace? the overwhelmingly obvious answer is a fee from the idea they reject for a variety of reasons. not only is the inquiry about atheism not necessary in terms of the history of social thought, it is not necessary in terms of the outline of scientific thought. there is the last question to be addressed. perhaps the most important for you and me, there's the question what compels the electron to follow the law of nature? good question. i don't know. but those who presided over the destruction of churches and synagogues throughout europe and was the mastermind behind the extermination of the jewish people ask a very similar question in 1944. when confronted with the onerous treaty obligations that day adopted, he asked

asked, after all what compels us to keep our promises? relativism is jerry often derived as the sun had the consequence. i don't think that is a deep tissue but i do think the issue of what compels us to keep our promises is very relevant. i have in front of me a rather remarkable but in. if you should press it comment yours would be untold riches and whatever else. the only consequences is the death of one anonymous chinese peasant. who among us would you trust with this but in?

sit still, christopher. [laughter] thank you. [applause] >> thank you. david berlinski and for the generous introduction and thank you for coming. at short notice i can only hope to match the brilliant vanity of my a rival that to from modern and access among 20th century perjury. let's take notes today and the famous story, and the direction of the other most prominent of paris the one that you see on your way

from the airport the increase and wedding cake style from the sacred heart built to celebrate the massacre of them for easy and workers and intellectuals those who tried to save the honor of the humiliation and was thrashing at the feet of this mark and the russian invaders. many more people were killed in that massacre then were killed in a hood of the terror but it was not enough fettle hold church had to be consecrated by the french establishment and their political allies to celebrate the massacre. does this prove religion? by no means does it do so. does it fell the professor and i both steadied?

to a degree it does. the clerical right wing goes on to do a terrible grain and the seriousness casualty a justice and not justified in advance, and this and taken in it determine who will be who in the terrible war of 1914 that been erased by me in this magnificent of the first 2,000 years of christianity and describes christendom is reduced to understand it ends in 1914 when every country in europe goes to war in the name of its got or church.

he is seeking emperor and the head of the church of england. they are considered not to be god below more than a human being the first time it he is put on the of bill buckling but not the last time of the german army in this is the end of christendom in on the way to fascism without that terrible war it is impossible the totalitarian movement that became such a threat to the civilization just two louis delaware with france and the massacre in a french colony is the collaboration with the third reich that strikes from the coinage liberty and equality and fraternity in from this france fell to the lowest point* of its history. i would be where of the

riding your argument of atheism from the coincidence is of the french ecclesiastical design. by with you on the larger point* you made and from the work actually of the great anglo catholic and anglo american poet asks the question, this question has to preoccupy us all when i am told and i suppose you could accuse me of taking it on because i could not prove it for myself having had it demonstrated to me i could not repeat the demonstration but with all the leaders of the field of physics that we estimate a total of 400 billion galaxies that is the universe or solar system but the galaxy.

with one second or one star in our own way that terrorizes the ancestors of star that size goes out every second. that is a lot while i am talking. and has been blowing up since the big bang. this is more than we can handle we cannot say we know about this although it can be argued that was set in motion with the intention on a very small planet in a very small solar system in a tiny neglected suburb of the an important galaxy a race of beings, primate capable of english and reason who believe that they made the right decisions they will live forever.

you could say that gigantic explosion was designed with that in mind but i would not be able to take your word for it. and it seems to me the burden is not on me i don't have to prove that i don't make the equivalent claim the religious person has to make but doesn't have to just say of course, god wanted it that way and that is the way it is because the design does not imply ed designer of implicates the designer to means if there is such a dizzied dish designer he is fantastically destructive and wasteful and 90 9.8 percent of species ever on the earth have already become extinct. does very wasteful design. i cannot prove that is not the way he wanted it to be but i can say there was the indication for this but not

me who says that if you believe in it you have the means of grace and the possibility of redemption and precarious salvation and forgiveness of sins through human sacrifice we cannot attempt and don't try anything like that. the agnostic lourdes diaz does not mean all kinds of certainty but those who are certain in the face of this uncertainty the strongest grounded agreement between us, if they are arbitrating a properly the first people to leave the island are those that say they already know enough and they know why it is happening. those who claim with certainty it then goes on how can we make sense of what we know and how can we

be true to the great principle from socrates? you must educate yourself by striping constantly. excuse me. as hard as you can to understand only then can you claim to have any acquaintance with knowledge at all. that is in modesty the founder of our school of thought and there is no truth -- prove socrates ever existed. it would be hard to the fact that does not matter to me. we have the message did what he taught us how to think. if by a would tell their after our first joint reading from the gospel of st. john that the bejeezus that is a real to him it could be proved to be only

50 staged fictitious medical individual, two 1/2 to ruin his day. but his life and extinguished him. isn't there something slightly fanatical to put sets of a large claim on such a slender and narrow basis? we will get to the nazis in my rebuttal if that is all right. and can read the morrow without believing fantastic things? that would take too long. all those other things that are not forgotten but if i could just introduced a new element into the argument. when you go to wash to jane go to the newest museum me that it states in the

smithsonian museum of natural history paid for by mr. coke the former libertarian candidate for president and founder of the paymaster of the tea party movement sell i join you to say really is -- this is a great country. [laughter] here is the greatest gallery from counter evolution the bit that has fascinated me take me back again and again until 17,000 years ago not many more years from that at least three other species those with find ways capacity very significant day decorated graves that insist upon the idea of a ritual of religion favor of

our species and they were not very well understood or known at all only until very recently but there they were our brothers and our sisters and they had the earnings and hopes that they are not in genesis. they have had no one to visit their graves until very recently and as a result of scientific innovation and whatever gods they had abandoned them. i just think it is worth brooding sense to talk about ourselves as the object of of cosmic process set in motion supervised and designed and intended i think we should take a

moment of silence of our fellow humans those members of our species to whom we may spare a little thought to. i will be back. thank you. [applause] >> we now move to rebuttal. six minutes. dr. david berlinski. >> a disturbing area of agreement that i sense from mr. hichens and myself that i will do my best to minimize. [laughter] please remember ladies and gentlemen, when it comes to the wicked of religion in ic did the point* it is no longer argumentative for about i would remind

you, however of the point* dr. johnson made and i paraphrase, the inquiry is not necessary for all of the laws of happen a and earth there and able to prevent men from their crimes mr. rich's is very much in the position of somebody watching a cripple blocking painfully with two crutches moving arduously to say to himself i have a great idea kick one away. everything will be so much better. that seems to be a weak argument not impossible as i would welcome that defense but it is no rebuttal to my position that atheism poisons everything. there are plenty of poison in the world the second

complaint is this strange enchantment with the views of stephen hawking you know, they he just published a book i don't know if any of you have seen it is a book explaining everything began and why we should not worry about god and a multitude of other subjects he published in collaboration with a friend of mine to paraphrase the claim that he now makes have been given up now championing the nseries claims he makes the reverse placid itself into existence the reversed just blasted itself into existence. i have not read the book i

respect him as the physicist but i can tell you this every one of these discussions which christopher his shins or they will bring the religious claims that laughs his absurdly when it comes to scientific claims should be should have the sophistication to wonder if he reverse just blasted itself into existence with the theory that nobody can understand which never once has been tested in any laboratory on the face of the ears. the third and final point* every battle is the fact that the caris, our home is a small part of the physical universe does not mean it is not the center of the universe after all nobody would argue vista mall

mr. hichens home is where the heart lies is rendered false by distance. he should be very careful to make these claims i believe the universe is very vague answer to may's some point* of continuity between you and to be and is a live the four but as for the centura images claims this particular place is blessed is quite different node doctrine about physical size. thank you very much. [applause] >> i swore too good to points of totalitarianism and atheism. his one point* 10 i have one to make atheism itself is

the position of any kind is the refusal to believe in the supernatural dimension in our the dictator and remains in the view although that cannot be disprove no good evidence has and a good argument of fourth. but that is where it ends. you can be an atheist and the entire list doris a. dissed, you can be an atheist and say with our god, anything is possible, doable or thinkable of course, i would say if we do the two the objection, also you can see it happening by opening the newspaper the right to commit any crime however ghastly. therein is no escape except for those psychopathic human beings are by invoking the idea that they will do

anything at all. you can be an atheist and a fascist of most are kristian you could be an atheist and a communist by definition and perfectly in different but there is a hedonism within atheism that starts with the atomic theory as suggested not that people were using religion as a crutch is such a way to put it but instead on a very hot day putting on a huge heavy overcoat dragging a ball and chain. my crops have failed i did not make a big enough sacrifice. oh god i have felt the thought now i will go to hell. or my children are because i did not baptize them.

man forged manacles of terror the emancipation of which all species has been slow but in which they have played a great part you only have to read galileo's work and considers himself to be very lucky to possess one of the very few pieces of work that was not destroyed in a christian centuries in the hope to put an end to such terrible and analyze speculation the thread is pastime picked up by the greatest you ever the -- ever briefed changing his name later to benedictus said if there is a guide it is not a personal god the fares and not answered that divine intervention does not occur.

from him and people like you may get the enlightenment but thomas fayyad and thomas jefferson our founders of this great republic this is not a tradition of which anybody on my side should be deeply ashamed when it becomes more acs to as others approached us with their mind boggling our mind altering findings. perhaps he will say it is a coincidence that einstein was expelled by the third reich as practitioners of jewish i'm sorry the area of agreement has just contracted to sell for you to say not dsm was the implementation of charles darwin was undeserving in an insult to the audience.

dar once thought was not taught in germany along with every other form on the great modern thinkers and foia alike were despised there is a misprint in mind chairmen print from which two statement evolution requires the evolution of the fittest anybody knows adaptability is likely for survival or our advantage in the struggle. just to take the most notorious come in the most finished example the most ruthless of national socialism that allowed the escape of these thinkers to

the nine states with the separation of church and state if it is the atheistic regime then how come in the first chapter he says he is doing god's work and executing god's will? how come the cure of every officer may gain hitler in to a minor got started off by all my almighty god? how kaman the builds buckling it says god is on our side? top of the first three be made by the national socialist dictatorship is with the vatican and exchanging political control of germany for catholic information. how come the churches celebrated the birthday of 50 your every day every year on that day and tell democracy put an end to that? quasi superstitious?

again is that a difference of emphasis between as to suggest there is something fascist about me and my believes to say that is not something you should believe. thank you. [cheers and applause] >> dr. david berlinski the you have three minutes. >> i will assert the following proposition. when is that -- poisons everything and the ancillary proposition their religion plays in some thing. at the beginning of the discussion we said they were a conflict of purpose those

the separation to the contrary introduced into this discussion be there in some -- evidence or a valid argument but in terms of the social history of atheism it seems to me when i began this debate overwhelmingly clear that while not see is them in china and cambodia certainly has religious elements why is that an interesting claim? the governing apparatus and ideology no matter what hiller has to say about his division -- division to the warrior like christ involves the proposition for those and their entourage negative and no power greater than their own.

they were restrained by nothing and we saw the consequences. you may say perhaps truly in their hearts of parts they adopted the rituals of communion especially after an arduous day murdering innocent women in the fields of poland could be true. i don't deny that but we must ask ourselves of this is to be an intellectual serious discussion if it is not the worst tyranny of mankind of course, they were. that goes without saying but if something fundamental had changed to make these atrocities possible. yes. there was. i have argued as well it is is the position and i have given you my reasons. finally i have argued atheism has removed from the human context an obligation

based on the feeling improve cents based on fear removes from the calculus profound and a powerful reasons to think there is no escaping the satellite it and to be honest i have not lived my life that way but i recognize it as a factor and we all must and with that said i think you negative for listening. >> perhaps i think i could close the gap a little in my closing remarks prepared i came across the street comment from george orwell of which i am a great admirer recently which he

said at root of all totalitarianism as the theocratic i thought that is stretching it certainly not to identify totalitarianism not explicitly religious but then he went on to clarify a bit that the reason i say theocratic is that there must be some certain unchallengeable assumptions that are not available then must be taken as statements of faith initially the leader is always right. they view that stalinist could bring two or three crops per year version of mao to take the access powers of japan the emperor was a god and that six of

their peers as well if you think of totalitarianism in that way and the greatest poison they knew see the church said is true because it depends on the unintelligible statements of dogma and faith i don't know if anybody wants to name me a statement of atheism that is of clearly face independent of evidence requiring no reasoning and above all punishable if chalice i believe you can come up with it to the contrary a faction of which i am privileged to be identified as a junior member is adamant is resolved to be skeptical

certain only of the principle of uncertainty and says what we have yet to to know is great then anything we have discovered that is only the test and intellectual integrity and emancipation from man-made divisions including hopeful once floor consolation i will close by repeating myself, i have done worse only those who claim to know things like the mind of god and the origin and destination they are the explanation and so far this evening have not cared to express it.

thank zero. [applause] >> we now move to the question and answer forum of this evening and we begin with christopher hichens and you're first question, what are the weaknesses of pascal's wager? >> sometimes known as pascal's gambit which is suggested as for those of you who don't know, all our might be watching, he was the founder of the probability theory and a great mathematician of the 17th century phrased it like this. he was addressing people he called those who are so made that they cannot believe. if you can believe then think of it like this if the

state may gain the right adjustments your relationship with god will save you in a future state and you are right, if you are wrong what do you have? the reason i say wager and gambits pretty cheap offer and i would say especially so when offered to those who are distinctly not in practice to try it on them but it is nastia any time in an a + to miss period to do very billable god if i say to him i will get all the convictions of a lifetime hope you are impressed to

say yes. that is good. in other words, you get a reward for intellectual consistency for courage your honesty in with these tribunals no lawyers to represent you to know opportunity to present to have evidence i cross over that lightly with us in the who is incredulous to say sure? water they four? those are the largest shortcomings and by implication all other reasoning of the other last things. thank you. [applause] >> the doctor to 91 of the

strengths of pascal's wager? >> very good. [applause] >> that is from undistinguished mathematician. >> restrictions would you agree with the following statement that some propositions are so dangerous it may even win the ethical to do kill people for believing them? >> you'd be i dole in dismissing at the first reading but i will give you a practical example. we have all wondered at least everyone my age has come a what will happen the

day we get a really bout of nasty weather that is what i thought about when i was seven. what happens if the regime lays hold of the apocalyptic weapon? we are about to find out. those who have plagiarized these weapons and piracy stolen it on the high seas and breaking every treatment an agreement they have signed with the u.n., eeo, are governed by totalitarian theory that is said guardianship of the supreme leader notice again another supreme leader divinely inspired dictator who wants to bring on the end of days which is not the end of my dislike religion that has the express wish of the end of the world and does not like this world.

those are our in the process of acquiring the secular weapon to bring about genocide deserve to have their ideologies treated as toxic and like terrace those who it is lawful to destroy so yes. [applause] >> dr. david berlinski you are not religious as i understand it. why you argue for the influence of christianity or the judeo-christian influence in society? >> i presume you are not asking that in the hopes of a personal declaration in. i argue for a great many

items in my answers are variable but this question strikes me as more a volvemen than most fornal pricing if the issue is tremendously specific and if we are honest about the times of which we live live, quite right what matthew arnold suggested to me under the power of a variety of forces and the results in a certain way has been the catastrophic and liberating. i should not say a secular do has a remarkable degree of authority to discuss these events i have the way of life under the "maxim" to have a good time all the time but on the other hand,, it does not hurt to

hear these words from someone such as myself because at least you're hearing fees words from nobody in their favor i count myself as the objective observer of the circumstances so perhaps it is the main reasonable answer i can get of they have horrific consequences especially intellectual history and in response why is it when did you opens his mouth with a question? i am presuming i will be welcomed. thank you. [applause] >> christopher hitchens was specific teachings of jesus

do you believe to be evil or poisonous? >> the concept of vicarious redemption is the most repulsive i think and the most central i could pick from the alleged utterances the inescapable one the atheism that to by throwing your sense onto somebody else that is disgusting and immoral doctrine. if i care for you the nav, i can pay your debt even if you incurred it was here on stupider responsibility and i can offer to take your place in prison or i could do that if he were a hostage and i love doing enough and those who wanted to put themselves forward as a

substitute in a tale of two cities but you cannot relieve people of their responsibilities and it would be discussing it could be done so i think expose seven sentral doctrine the abdication of moral responsibility i think the idea of taking aim no thought of the moro to abandon your family if you doubt your one who hates and give up investments or thrift or any thought of the future anything of this sort, forget all of that and follow me is morally on one condition that the world is about to come to an end in only those who stick buy me will get out of it. but again i would say that

is a wicked thing to be saying that we would be so much better off you would think so much more eric clearly of the real moral questions. thank you. [applause] >> given this choice and no other would you perfervid the secular or islamic europe? [laughter] >> what makes you think it is a choice right now? a large portion of europe is already islamic. how would i just the european comment kriet -- content? why should i judge the european continent?

they have the relationship for the arab community i have no objections. >> do you mind? i think there's a reason why you could have answered that better. with the view that atheism poisons everything and i think this is the intention of the question that i would be better off but i think he was trying to ask you sears they maintain any such thing? >> and defect to europe? >> would your be better as islamic or without god? , i invite you to take another run at its. [laughter] [applause]

>> this is a forced choice. which would you prefer? the islamic europe ar if you do or would you prefer to live in a secular europe? >> the trouble with a question has no provocative urgency for me. none whatsoever. it is like asking if i would prefer to be dressed in gold or silver? not a living issue. >> christopher, by the way this since your last question so at the end it take an extra minute to summarize your arguments and to make a final statement. do you believe that all religions are equally poisonous? >> my beloved youngest

daughter today became a senior at two her school in washington said at least i now she is under serious police guard during the day. [laughter] and as the name implies of the quaker foundation and she has not understood the story of frederick douglass and elizabeth cady stanton and many other people by now, it is not for want of trying. will i not be demagogue if i said quakeress' them to me is exactly the same as the 12th shiite theory, of course, not. but religion is to take their turn at bat to to show how dangerous it is. quakers, for example,, expelled from their ranks those that

supported the american revolution because they thought they had taken a nose and it transcended all other principals brother had to be another quaker to set up in philadelphia for those who had been kicked out. betsy ross was thrown out for married the episcopalian. the more you look at these innocuous sex you realize they're all the innocuous because they have had their banks toronto by civil society when jefferson says baptista of dan very connecticut don't worry live in a country that has separation between church and state who can tell me? who was the baptist of dan barry of connecticut afraid of? come on. the congregational list. alabama.

[laughter] they thought they should not be said is since. i would have said 50 years ago the catholic church was far her dangerous because of its open and saudi disgusting lives with fascism but obviously now which had been going through a long period of relations but yes, they all make the same mistake. they take the only real faculties that we have that distinguishes us from other primates, the faculty of resents the willingness to take any reason to replace that with the idea that faith is a virtue. if i could change just one thing to be disassociate the idea from the face and virtue now and for good to expose it for what it is.

a week is a of refuge of cowardice. with credulity those in the highest agree. thank you. [applause] >> your final question. at the end you may summarize your arguments in. lead is one to make of the claim or rather what do you make of the claim that scions and christianity are in opposition 21 another? >> what am i to make of the claim that science and christianity are in opposition 21 another? i would need to hear that articulated properly to claim the point* of opposition in general seems to be unhelpful. the claim in particular

seems to be more reasonable in the largest tax backed western science is the outgrowth of the judeo-christian tradition especially to the extent or only to $0.6 -- extent it is committed to the principle that the universe manifest universe has only 102 structure that could be discovered by the intellect of man i think this is trooper i don't think this is far from the declaration and federal is charged with the grandeur of god. they have the same position in the world of thought therefore it could be rationally comprehended. this is very different from the islamic tradition in which got assigned a capricious role. there is a reason those that

were so glorious did come to an end unceremoniously and could be traced back to theological writings. the judeo chris gin tradition reveals in any tour pointing to the super natural order and a powerful influence on western science recognized by every single what of them. what do i have next? >> one is ever closing remarks to mike i have no objection to repeating myself if you want to hear myself repeated, i don't know. i offer three considerations i listened respectfully to what mr. hichens has said and i found myself immeasurably improved. however i have heard nothing that discourages me or

dissuades me the influence said atheism even though religions have done dreadful things has been poisonous for at least 300 years and in the 20th century it is a dogmatic position which is the separation that there is no god has influences under sciences it leaves unanswered questions in that it inevitably leaves the question what forces us to be paid as we should? thank you. [applause]

>> want to thank both gentlemen for participating in this debate and it seems appropriate at this time to say a word about the fixed point* foundation. it is a christian organization and unashamedly so although we do seek to engage in the realm of ideas. someone wonder why we would sponsor a debate like this as a christian organization we have represented on the stage neither of these men are christians. we think these are questions and ideas that are relevant to everyone knew what you are a christian, atheist, agnostic or some other religion. that said, i want to be very honest and say our sympathies lie in the direction that the robust kristian influence in society is a good thing.

christopher said and it seemed appropriate to me to respond to him that it would ruin my life if i were to learn that jesus christ was a figment of my imagination and in billions of other people as well. to that i must confess that he is correct. it would ruin my life. it really would because it would suggest from our perspective that this life is meeting less and it is a hoax and a sham. that is our perspective. now. >> [inaudible] [applause] >> if you're interested in knowing more about fixed point foundation you can find us on the but. this particular debate will be aired on c-span.

i am not sure of the dates or times it will be on a number of locations you can find it there or on our website as well. we also want to welcome the lead of the "60 minutes" who is here doing a piece on christopher a chance. please join me in thanking these men for their participation this evening. [applause] >> a contributing editor to "vanity fair" and a visiting professor of liberty liberty -- liberals tories and is the author over one dozen books. mr. hitch since passed away

on december 15, 2011. booktv covered several events of the late mr. his chance setter on the tv.org including in depth of three hour interview discussing all of his books to date. >> on your screen is well known his story and stanley weintraub whose most recent book is called pearl harbor christmas the world at war, december 1941. that was 70 years ago. what was christmas 1941 like in this could treat? >> it was a quiet time and people were stunned when it happened in pearl harbor and i wrote about the aftermath of world wide what it was like around this country and

around the world. it was a time there was official blackouts but nobody paid attention. rationing had not begun yet. it had not sung again. >> host: what was washington like? if they were during the bid and the special way. there is no aircraft there was no guns available all the way never did have the air raid but they have aircraft dance on the roofs of buildings of people felt they were being protected it was a strange christmas. >> host: did the draft start? >> it had started 1940 before the war began. president roosevelt had a very difficult time in 1941

to review the draft because there's so many isolationist and a country that said draft passed by one vote because general marshall came to congress to plead with them and said it is essential to be prepared and they were prepared by one vote. >> host: stanley, what was president roosevelt's christmas like? bill micki had a visitor from being glad the prime minister churchill parker he took him to the at methodist church in washington christmas morning and for the first time in his life he heard the little town of bethlehem song. he was not eight churchgoer despite his name. >> this is your third book on christmas time? >> it may be my fourth. silent night