>> is that the last question? one more? okay. >> sometimes releases my understanding that we observe shifts in the crude oil prices and not this is fairly a direct correlation between pump prices. how much of the actual landed cost to the consumer is the value chain here in america versus the true crude price, for example refineries, distribution. .. .

so thank you very, very much for coming. my name is marie arana, i am a writer-at-large for he washingtost". i am a writer at though books vy editor for many, many years thad i am now a very hot number of the board or is that thisd to ba festival. charter sponsor of the festival for so many years. ..

there's something for for you here. at the book festival. first, in our lineup of great authors today is trained to come a veteran magazine correspondent and the author of numerous books about the american military as well as american intelligence operations. in almost two decades out tot, g journalists, he is cover the pentagon,c congress, and, whiteo house and the cia? or nightstand at 422,007 at hed served zine'sa inn bureau. first as a correspondent, then as a senior correspondent. he has also served as diplomatic correspondent traveling throughout europe, asia and the

middle east as well as the persian gulf. in pursuit of stories. he has carried out extensive coverage of the middle east, peace negotiations, and the wars in iraq. before coming to "time" magazine, doug was a correspondent for "newsweek," reporting a major military conflicts from the gulf war to somalia to haiti. he was born in norfolk, virginia, study at wake forest university, and did graduate work in urban affairs at the university of north carolina at charlotte. before joining "newsweek" in 1988, he served as a legislative assistant on the staff of senator william and representative edward markey. douglas waller is now a defense analyst for bloomberg government. among his many, many books, a number of them, bestsellers, are the commanders, the inside story of america's secret soldiers.

air warriors, the inside story of the making of a navy pilot. and big red, the three-month voyage of a trident nuclear submarine. his new book is a biography of an outsized american character, general william wild bill donovan, the founder and director of the office of strategic services, the precursor of a modern cia. in this superb biography once a cliffhanger and a work of deep scholarship, doug waller tells the story of a man who built a far-flung intelligence organization out of absolutely nothing in the middle of one of the most brutal wars of our time. and ambitious young lawyer with political aspirations, working donovan had written to president franklin d. roosevelt in 1942, and told him that what the country really needed as it

hunkered down for war was a good operation. roosevelt, desperate for information, gave him the task. donovan was fearless, even reckless, always itching to be in the center of attention, and the story waller tells is full of action, on the ground and in the corridors of power. david weiss has written extensively about the cia wrote on the pages of the "washington post," "wild bill donovan," the name of the book, is a first carefully researched in depth biography of the legendary world war ii spymaster. for anyone interested in history of american intelligence, it is required reading. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome a terrific writer and journalist, douglas waller. [applause] >> i'm sorry but before i bring

him on, welcome to answer, before i give him the microphone i must say we expect you to ask questions after he speaks. but i must warn you that your image come if you come to the microphone which we hope you will do, will be found and been buried in the tombs of the library of congress forever. so be careful. >> thanks, marie. it's great to be here. actually we are actually sitting in a very appropriate spot for a discussion about "wild bill" donovan because just a few blocks from here is where his spy agency had its headquarters. it was up one navy hill right next to the state department. his staff called it the kremlin. his headquarters. it was an abandoned, had been an abandoned public health services building. in fact, they have been doing selfless research there.

when donovan's men moved into the headquarters they were still animals in cages up on the top floor that they hadn't carted out. joseph goebbels, hitler's propaganda minister, had a lot of fun with that little morsel. in fact, he said that propaganda broadcasts that donovan's new home was for 50 professors, 10 goes, 12 guinea pigs, and as she. which actually wasn't far from the truth. "wild bill" donovan really is three stories in one. it's a very compelling biography of a truly heroic figure. met a lot of tragedy in his life. it's also a spy story, and exciting spy story about world war ii. and it's a story about political intrigue at the highest levels of washington which is a part that really intrigues me the most because i'm a journalist. i said in some talks i would have loved to been a reporter covering "wild bill" donovan

back there in the '40s. and i probably would have. donovan liked reporters. he liked leaking to the press. he had reporters on his staff as propaganda, and before he heads up the oss, the office of strategic services, he would go out overseas on mission for the government or for his own private industry, posing a big correspondent and putting two different news agencies. he wasn't a particularly tall men, only about five-foot nine, one of his agent, betty mcintosh, but when he ran the oss he can look in when she. she told him that went on. he didn't appreciate it. one of his other operatives, mary bancroft said he looked like a qb golf. don't anybody asked me what a qb doll look like but that's what he looked like them. he slept five hours a night, could speed read at least three books a week. he was an excellent ballroom

dancer. he loved to sing irish songs. he would go to broadway and pick up the latest sheet music so he could learn the latest musical things. he didn't smoke. he really drank. he enjoyed fine dining which added to the weight. he spent lavishly, had no concept for a dollar. when he was overseas basing stations, which is where he was most of the time, in aid was always be with him with a bunch of quarters and dollar bills because he was always mooching them off of him. he was witty but he never showed are never told a dirty joke, never laughed out loud. never showed anger. instead he let it boil up inside him. he was rakishly handsome. particularly as a young man. he a bright blue eyes that women found captivating. his life, however had a lot of tragic aspects to it. his daughter died in college in an automobile accident. his daughter in law died of a drug overdose. one of his granddaughters at

four years old died when she accidentally swallowed silver polish. he was born on new year's day 1883 in buffalo's port irish first war. i gave up booktalk in buffalo during this, and discovered that all this time i've been saying donovan stand wrong. if you're from buffalo's irish first ward, you pronounce it donovan, not donovan like i was saying. it screwed me up for the rest of the booktalk. he thought he might be a priest and every irish catholic family was always assumed that one of the sons would become a priest. donovan realize he wasn't cut out to be a man of the cloth so we went to columbia university, was a star quarterback you senior year until a cheap taco from a princeton lyman hobbled him for the rest of the season. he attended columbia law school after columbia university, franklin roosevelt was a law student within. in fact, roosevelt like to say that he and donovan were old

pals in law school. donovan said that was a bunch of baloney. roosevelt had nothing to do with somebody as low as social stress as donovan was. he returned to buffalo, set up a very lucrative law practice, married one of the wealthiest women in buffalo. then world war i comes. he goes off to war. he commands a battalion in the famous 69 to irish regiment, a very famous new york regiment. he was awarded the congressional medal of honor during world war i for some very heroic actions. his priest in the 69th regiment, father francis duffy, said donovan was one of the few men he had ever met who actually enjoyed combat. he really did. he would write to his wife that going out on combat was like going out trick-or-treating. in world war i is where he earned the nickname "wild bill." he was actually a very rigorous

and brutal trainer of his men because he realized in this war they were going to be going into a meat grinder, which they were. so before they went into action in france he had them when they're running over hill and dale and under barbwire and obstacle courses and whatever. finally, they all collapse in front of him, his battalion. he stood up and said what the heck is the matter with you? i'm 35, during the same that you are, you don't see me out of breath. from somewhere in the back a soldier shouted out, he never figured out who it was, but we're not as while as you are, bill. okay? from that day on "wild bill" donovan start. he claims he didn't like that nickname because it ran counter to the cool, calm collected spy energy he wanted to project. but his wife said he really did like being called while bill. he returned to new york he wrote. eventually became an assistant attorney general in the coolidge administration during the roaring '20s. his goal at that point was to be

attorney general of the united states. and he thought herbert hoover had made a promise to. hoover had. but the ku klux klan which is very powerful, powerful political movement then was up in arms over the idea of an irish catholic becoming attorney general of the united states. donovan was a prominent republican made his share of enemies in washington and senate democrats vow to block his nomination. so hoover reneged on the promise until the day he died, "wild bill" donovan never forgave herbert hoover for backing out on the attorney general ship. he returned to new york city, set up a very prominent law firm there, made millions as a wall street lawyer, then in 1932 he ran for governor of new york on the republican ticket. his goal then was to be the nation's first irish catholic president.

and it was the ideal steppingstone for achieving that. franklin roosevelt, 1932, was running for his first term as president. donovan ended up running as much against roosevelt as he did against lieutenant governor lehman, roosevelt's lieutenant governor who is running for governor. said some nasty things about roosevelt on the campaign trail. at one point he accused fdr of being quote, crafty. back then that was fighting words. kind of mild today. another time he accused roosevelt of being a quote, hyde park figure because roosevelt on the campaign trail claimed he was just a simple farmer am hyde park and donovan said that was a bunch of bunk. roosevelt, for his part, took a shot at donovan. had surrogates do. eleanor got on the campaign trail and started criticizing him during the election. donovan lost that election. turned out he was a horrible campaigner. if he was here talking to you in

a small group he could turn on that irish charm and he would have you've totally wrapped into what he was saying. before a large group though, he was a wooden stick figure, just terrible as a campaigner. in fact, his lieutenant governor, a guy named davidson, that donovan should be running for lieutenant governor and he should be running for governor because he was so lousy. the reason i mention all this by background is it's amazing that roosevelt may donovan his top spymaster in his administration, considering all the nasty things these two guys said about each other in new york. but fast-forward to 1940, 41. roosevelt is building the country up, telling the defenses up, preparing the nation for war. donovan, even though he is a conservative republican, he thought the new deal was a calm spot to take over america. nevertheless, he was a member of the internationalist wing of the republican party. he to believe that the nation

needed to build itself up for war and the country needed to prepare for this down the road. in the summer of 1940, roosevelt since donovan on an informal diplomatic mission to england to answer but just one question. can britain survived the war? donovan is given access to the highest level of the british government, to naval intelligence, military intelligence over there, mi5, mi6 and all the war agencies. he comes back with bags full of documents, classified documents from great britain. and with an answer to the question that yes, britain could survive a war but it would need a considerable amount of u.s. aid to do so. as we all know that came eventually in the form of land lease. roosevelt since donovan on a second trip at the end of 1940 that lasts to the beginning of 1941. this time he went not only to england but he went through the

balkans, the middle east and eastern europe. his mission was not on to collect intelligence about what was going on in that region but also to deliver a very private message from franklin roosevelt to the balkans and middle east leaders, which was that roosevelt did not intend to let great britain lose this war. so if you are decided at this point which side you will be on, and a lot of balkan leaders were at this point, just keep in mind that the allies will be the winning side. georgia was delighted. he cabled roosevelt that donovan had been a heartwarming flame. churchill supplied him a british plane to fly him around the region and yet british military escorts with him to open were sorted and also keep an eye on what he was doing and report back to london. one of them was enough for me, the novelist who wrote the james bond novels. the state department wasn't too pleased with this mission. here you have an american

citizen who had no diplomatic standing in the american government or the british government, strong army balkan leaders behind closed doors. in fact, the state department at one point investigated whether donovan should be prosecuted for violating the logan act which makes it ran for u.s. citizens, a private citizen to negotiate on behalf of the u.s. government. roosevelt was only too happy to have donovan after freelancing. because keep in mind in 1940, going into 41, roosevelt has no foreign intelligence service in his government to speak of. you have the army and navy have small foreign intelligence units, but they were largely dumping ground for poor performing officers. roosevelt is making major foreign policy decisions overseas, you know, how much and how to get land lease aid to great britain. how to circumvent congressional control. he's running against wendel willkie for an unprecedented third term.

he's really worried he will lose that election and he's making all these decisions overseas, largely blind to what lay ahead of him. it working so much that sometimes he became physically ill. when donovan came back from the european mission, that's when our spy story begins. in july 1941, this is before pearl harbor, roosevelt signed an executive order designating donovan is coordinator of information. about a year later it would be called the oss, the office of strategic services. but in the beginning it was the coordinator of information. just a one page document, very vaguely written, said colonel donovan, his world war i rank, will collect information of national importance for me and other unspecified things. the document was so vague that they of the cabinet members in roosevelt administration begin scratching their heads and wondering what in the world is he up to, appointing this republican wall street lawyer to

do all these unusual covert things in his administration. donovan liked to say that he began his spy agency, the oss, really from minus their which is really the case but it was really just one guy and that was "wild bill" donovan. in the beginning he was kind of like a player in a pickup basketball game looking for agents and operations anywhere he could find them. so for example, the philips land company, they made and sold lands overseas. they still may be in business today for all i know. donovan arranged privately with the philips lamp company to have a salesman when he went on sales calls overseas to report back to him, particularly axis occupied countries what they saw and what they heard. the eastman kodak company, in my day they made the cameras, i think to make disposable cameras today. back then they have thousands of camera clubs around the united states. donovan arranged for the camera

clubs to send him the photos that terrorists had taken of military leave important sites around the world. another project he hashed was projects a car. pan american airways, europe probably all float on pan am, not a new tv series about pan am stewardesses or whatever. accton project cigar, donovan arranged privately with ticket agents for pan am in africa would report to him on the movements of nazis throughout the continent so he could keep track of access agents in africa. he cooked up all kinds of wild schemes. he was open to practically any crazy idea, or at least willing to consider it. his code number, which you see on the oss doctors is always 109 which just happened to be the room number of his office in the kremlin. his secretary said end of the code name for him. they used to call him seabiscuit because like the racehorse he was always kind of running around all the time. he was always a constant blur to

them. he kept $2000 in his desk drawer at all times to pay off sources for information when he went prowling around washington. i don't think you'll find a cia director that keeps to grin in his office now, in petty cash. he had a research and development chief, a guy named stanley lovell, who invented all the spy gadgets for them. donovan used to call him his professor moriarty after the sherlock holmes character. stanley lovell made things like the miniature cameras that spies have to use. with silencers, incendiary devices, pencil like incendiary devices used as explosives. donovan was very, very interested, for example, in truth drugs, fascinated by the use of truth drugs and interrogation. so he had, stanley lovell had one of his officers test out the truth drug on a new york

mobster, a guy named little all geek, okay this was a new york guy who worked for the oss. he had little on the up to his apartment for some smokes and a chat one day. and little obvious are puffing away on a cigarette which is laced with the truth drug, puffing away, puffing away, slowly get the silly grin on his face. starts telling the officer about all the mob hits he's carried out from his working for lucky luciani and all the congressmen he has brought. little auggie secrets were safe with the donovan. he could never bring him to court. it would expose the truth drug they were testing. other ideas he had. one time he proposed to franklin roosevelt the he have a button at his desk he can push it any time and it put him in instant communication with every radio in america so he could warn people in los angeles the japanese were attacking, or people in new york that the germans were attacking on that site. roosevelt ignored that idea, but roosevelt was open to everyone

of donovan's ideas. roosevelt was a spy buff himself. he liked his entry. he liked the whole idea of espionage. so for example, one time donovan, i'm stanley lovell talked about the idea of getting bats, but that's the fly, how they were going to tie incendiary devices around the bats, okay? the idea was that you would fly over japan, drop the bats out, the bats would fly in to the paper and wood houses, and said the incendiary devices would set off and it would burn down japanese cities. okay? i'm not making this up. this really happened. terrific idea. eleanor roosevelt had heard about it. someone had written her she passed it onto critical. franco thought it was kind of cool, and gave it to donovan and he had stanley lovell check it out. so they got a plane, loaded up

with a bunch of bats with incendiary devices tied around them. flew over somewhere in midwest, some desert area, dropped out the bats, guess what happened to the bats? they all sank like stones. the idea didn't work. but donovan was willing to try. he was willing to try other things. one of the side apps scheme that he had was that satanic level had concocted some female hormones, okay? if they could find hitler's vegetables they would inject in the hormones into the vegetables and it would make his mustache fall out and get in a falsetto voice what should be a real bummer. [laughter] eventually donovan built his spy organization, and over 10,000 covert operatives, commanders, research analyst, support personnel, scattered in stations all over the world. again a remarkable achievement the incident really start out with one guy which was "wild

bill" donovan. they mounted covert operations in north africa during the torch campaign in november 1942. had extensive operation in sicily and italy. in the balkans they aided the guerrillas in yugoslavia and greece. was very wide-ranging operations there. in asia they were really limited to burma and china, those two theaters. interestingly enough, macarthur, command of the southwest pacific theater, in want of any part of donovan's force. in fact, banned him. didn't think you have any use for them. admiral, commander of the northern pacific force, also didn't think much of donovan's force and wouldn't let him in there. his most extensive operations came in france, northern france and southern france. they mounted or they had a good bit of research in targets in france and germany. they also infiltrated, parachuted in commandos during

that operation. donovan also like to go in on landings, the beach landings. he went in on the landing in sicily and italy and it started to worry is on staff because they thought a spy chief, and intelligence chief with all the secrets and said, the last thing you want is at the front or he might be captured and he might be a valuable target your george marshall, chief of staff of the army, thought he had donovan banned from going in on the normandy landing. so did dwight eisenhower. they thought they had been prohibited and he would stay in england. donovan managed to talk his way aboard the heavy cruiser and land the second day in the utah beach landing. had a great time. he was on the beach on a jeep, german measures myths lies over and sprays the beach and he goes diving into the same. he then marches in about five miles with an aide, gets pinned down by a german machine gun nest, reaches in to the

pocket of his field jacket to look for a suicide pill because all oss officers carried a suicide pill, including donovan. realized he left it at the hotel in london and was all worried. had an aide rated back because he feared a made mike cunning and mistake it for an aspirin. it took almost two years for donovan to bill up despite organization. it may seem like a long time but the u.s. army quite a while to build up its forced to become a credible force in the war. but eventually it became very, very proficient and turned in a lot of good intelligence, like all intelligence agencies it did suffer from its failures, to pick one of the most striking failures was the vessel? donovan thought he had a silver bullet agent planted inside the vatican. the codename in his codename was basso, who was supplying him with cable transcripts of conversations, private

conversations that pope highest was having with foreign leaders, japanese envoy, and with his own envoy on peace initiatives, particularly in asia. turned out vessel was an italian pornographer with a very vivid imagination who had a talent for writing dialogue. snookered donovan, all of donovan's staff. as i say this is also a story of political intrigue. donovan liked to say that his enemies in washington were asked to assess adolf hitler was in your. and that was really the case. he had ferocious fights with j. edgar hoover. over the donovan's organization was the biggest collection of amateurs he had ever seen. and actually in the beginning it was a big collection of amateurs. hoover had his fbi spy on donovan, collected a lot of information on them. they spied on oss officers. he had moles in donovan's organization to donovan spied on hoover.

had moles in hoover's organization. when i was. when i was doing the research i got winded have time to spy? the pentagon at first wanted no part of donovan's office of strategic services. george marshall thought that this was a plot by donovan to take over army and navy intelligence. which by the way is exactly what donovan had in mind if franklin roosevelt would have let him do it. so marshall eventually comes to accept donovan's oss, but a senior intelligence officers never did. and, in fact, they fought donovan's organization throughout the war. at one point toward the middle of the war, his military intelligence folks even formed their own secret espionage units behind donovan's back. it was nicknamed the pond. its job was not going to spy on the access behind donovan's back to spy on donovan, and spy on

his officers. the evening collected information on the wives of oss officers. in any war, you are going to generals on the same site fight among themselves. world war ii was no different from any of the war. the british and the americans senior officers, there were constant battles among them. in donovan's case though the fights were even more intense because the conventional admirals and generals really didn't know what this guy was all about. when he got up and start talking propaganda and espionage operations and transport and that's with incendiary devices, conventional admirals and generals found that truly disturbing but not really the american way of war. donovan also brought along a lot of the problems on himself. by his operating style. he had the habit of never taking no for an answer. so if the command in front of them said no, you can't do this, he would make an end run around the commander, tried to get a

decision reversed. which, of course, doesn't win you any friends in the pentagon. one time he was at a cocktail party in washington chatting with an adult and he had his men burglarized the admirals office, steal some documents office desk, and bring the dodgers to the cocktail part to show the admiral what his agents could do. there's nothing in the record that shows what the admirals reaction was but i got the probably pretty not great. donovan had a penchant for showing up at meetings at the pentagon, usually late, keeping the other admirals and generals waiting. he was eventually made a major general in the army. his uniform would be very carefully tailored. and he would come into the room with only the medal of honor ribbon he had one sewn onto his uniform. as a not-so-subtle reminder that he had really the only metal in them that actually counted.

eventually donovan couldn't overcome his political enemies. he had drafted a plan for a postwar central intelligence agency, and he wanted to leave it. after the war. walter troll man who was a reporter for the "washington times" herald which was part of the mccormick patterson newspaper chain, which also on the "chicago tribune," every public and newspaper chain strongly anti-roosevelt, they despise rosa rosa despise them, he gently to him donovan, a copy of donovan secret plan to set up a postwar cia. most likely j. edgar hoover did to the document but it could never be proven. anyway, he publishes the article in the "washington times" herald and the "chicago tribune" verbatim, along with a very

highly inflammatory story that accused donovan of want to set up an american gestapo in the united states. back then if you choose any organization of being a gestapo like organization, you about killed it politically. and it did with franklin roosevelt. he basically shelve the plan. harry truman comes into office. okay? j. edgar hoover had one of his agents plant a particularly nasty rumor with truman's top military aid, that donovan was having an affair with his daughter-in-law. they play pretty hardball back then. now, i had to run that rumor to ground, wasn't it particularly present chore but discovered it wasn't true. donovan was close to his daughter-in-law, but only as a daughter-in-law. even so, donovan had had a number of affairs over the years to get a number of mistresses. it was common knowledge in buffalo, new york.

it was common knowledge in washington among oss circle. and military intelligence. had no problem getting to the fbi getting passed on to truman. that was a really what some of donovan's organization with harry truman. what really probably killed it was a 59 page report that the pause, the secret espionage unit, they managed to get to truman's desk to an army officer in the white house serving as a conduit. that 59 page report accused donovan's agents, agency of all manner of misdeeds and malfeasance and blown operations and corruption. in fact, at one point even accused oss officers for staging a orgy any which i found no evidence that was the case. truman also didn't like donovan. on the one hand you have a successful wall street republican lawyer. on the other hand, you have a diehard democrat.

there was never going to be good karma between these two guys. so in october 1945, truman shuts down the oss to he wasn't naïve to the threats that were out there overseas. he knew he was facing an impending cold war threat. and he needed an intelligence service. he just didn't want donovan's organization or the oss having any part of it. truman in 1947 formed the cia, central intelligence agency, patterned after the vision and the idea that donovan had. donovan lobbied through surrogates to try and make himself cia director. but truman wanted -- didn't want any part of that. dwight eisenhower comes into office in 1953. donovan thinks he has his best chance to become cia director. eisenhower was republican. thought a lot of donovan's work. instead the eisenhower makes

allan dulles as cia director which deeply disappointed donovan. he thought dulles was going to screw up the cia. dulles had been a station chief. donovan's station chief in switching. had done a terrific job. ironically does not donovan had done a lousy job of running the oss and he could have run that agency better. so, let me end it there. we can talk about his life afterwards or anything else you'd like to discuss, his legacy, what you see today among the cia. [applause] >> yes. my name is max gross. i read quite a few books about the oss, and about donovan. one thing i've never understood and you didn't bring out yourself, there was no intelligence oversight committee. i've never known congress' role regarding the oss.

and how did he get paid for it? >> good question. on the first one, whether there was any congressional oversight of this operation, the short answer is no. in fact, at one point harry truman had sent over some requests to get some information about what the oss was spending its money on. truman was in charge of that government, efficiency committed during the war. and marshall came to him and talked him out of it and truman backed off. senator harry byrd, virginia, at one point tried to find out what the oss officers were getting paid. they were getting paid pretty high salaries. he wanted to cut that back. as far as the funding for the os as, a game initially of two accounts. roosevelt in the beginning had a private slush fund, a white house secret fund that was called an voucher money, which wasn't accountable to congress. he could pay at whatever he wanted.

so he initially pay donovan's organization out of the private fund. he also had his own little secret intelligence unit run by a washington columnist. did domestic espionage work for them. none of this was really overseen by congress. eventually, part of donovan's sons come his budget expand into the hundreds of millions or more, came from appropriate funds from congress. but even in congress really wasn't doing a lot of oversight of what he was doing overseas. he was basically free to operate on his own. >> i wonder if you could say something about the sources that you used for this book. for example, are all the oss archives available? where are they? do you think they are complete or do you think that some of them may have been deleted at some point? >> yeah. the good news is that all the

oss documents have been declassified. frankly, all of them have been declassified. the bad news is that practically all the oss doctors have been declassified because it runs into the millions and millions of pages. in donovan's own office, i have to go through a good bit of that mature, in donovan's own office at the kremlin he had something on the order of 170,000 documents their that were under his control. which took me about a year to go through. his personal papers from his law office and other sources, his letters to his family are at the army military history institute in carlisle pennsylvania over three her 60 boxes. i also had to go to the three presidential libraries, the fdr, truman and eisenhower libraries. then they are scattered and archives in libra's all over the country are different parts of the donovan story in the oss

story. i also had to go to england to the british archives their, because the british been a good bit of time monitoring donovan's organization. they were integral to setting up this organization, but the officers that were spying on donovan's organization and a new donovan was spying on him. so you could go there for special operations executive papers which are extensive, some mi6, the churchill library had some, too. it took about a little over two years to go through and vacuum up everything. >> thank you. enigma was an enormously successful operation. what i learned is that donovan had no relationship whatsoever. was he aware of enigma? did he have any control whatsoever? >> yeah. actually he did with enigma. and for enigma, this was the code-breaking capability the british had for the german

military and diplomatic codes. donovan was given access to that code-breaking capability. in fact, he had some of his officers stationed in the park where, involved in the code-breaking. ironically though, donovan was not given direct access to magic, which was the army navy code-breaking capability of japanese military diplomatic traffic. marshall didn't trust donovan's organization, thought he would leak it all out. so throughout the war he actually had a close relationship with the british code-breaking capability than he had with his own american code-breaking capability. and he recognized throughout the war that this was really, you know, the key intelligence find, and had the most by, more valuable than his own organization.

>> i just finished reading the book last week and i'd like to say that's one of the best bios i've ever read. wonderfully, well done. i had two questions. the donovan leisure law firm cratered several years ago. i wonder if you could explain to the audience with relationship was with mr. donovan and the law for because i know some of his early travel on behalf of law firms and in second question is i just finished reading a book about the cia. and i guess the way i came from the book was this was the gang that couldn't shoot straight. so i wondered how the historical aspect of the oss would tie into some of the fiascoes that they were involved in? >> right. the donovan law firm was formed after donovan came back from the coolidge administration in the 20. he formed it didn't. really right got going in the middle of the depression. it was a highly successful.

donovan and four choice been a lot of the law for money along the way. he had no concept for a dollar. use a lot of the law from account to fund his travels overseas. he later was ambassador to thailand from 1953-1954, and traveled around the region on the law firm account. he came back, particularly after world war ii to the law firm. and after ambassadorship to thailand, a sickly broke, and the law firm was not doing well at that point. at that point he became a rainmaker for the firm. he was a good argue were before the supreme court but he wasn't a dry parchment will or. and so he was good at drawing in business. as far as the legacy of the oss and as it carries over to the cia, the question i get asked is what difference did the oss make in the war, did it win the war for the allies? the short answer is no.

did a shortened the war for the allies? and again the answer is no. but you are setting the bar awfully high when you establish that kind of benchmark because there were broader factors at work that we're winning the war for the allies. the fact that we could basically a mask more men and machines against the axis and acts as could ever field against us. and as i say, signals intelligence back to and enigma were much more valuable than the oss was an donovan recognize that big one of the vital of the oss is that it became the petri dish for the future leaders of the cia. a lot of future directors, allen does, richard helms, william colby, bill casey, all were officers who served under donovan. counter teeth under him and became future cia director's. >> we don't?

>> you know, that's the story that does sound intriguing to me to go forward with it. she would have to have a personal thing for me. i'm not one of the journalists who show up and knock on doors. i have to have the story. and it have to have the element that i'm looking for that when it's already in the papers that means the other journalists running around it. and i'm also not for higher. i have to want to write it has met the.

but it's intriguing. i would love to see an e-mail from her. if it's something that you have, you know, they handle on i can get in and talk to everyone i want to tell their story, i did write a book about oil, but it was more in the new york merc exchange in dubai. it's intriguing. i start with sob stories all the times. a look at them and be like it's not really right for me or it's going to take too much time or be too dangerous. i also like to put myself into real danger, so it's not a a write a story where it hit involved with not people. i've got nothing else, too. crazy e-mails to people is done horrible things. i mean, everybody e-mails me. with eliot spitzer went down all explain my wife i know it a madam for a year. i get e-mails from charlie sheen people. that i would love to her right. but again, i don't think my way

for them he do that. everyone does contact me at some point. i like some off the beaten track unchained past. >> he got arrested in orlando. >> helicopters close a major highway. >> i'm not going to say not that. i don't know how nasa covered it up, but nasa was embarrassed. he was one of their own who robbed them. >> a big trial and yet, i don't know how public u.s. it is a federal trial. there were reporters there. it was written about so little. and it didn't really -- it never exploded. it was a wonderful l.a. times article about it come a four-page article that was really it. that was years ago. >> at nasa cooperate at all? >> they told everyone not to speak to me. which makes people want to talk to me.

i actually got axil lettermen, the belgian mineral collect there. never been to antwerp in his life. he corrects rock in his wife's name is crystal. he meets every monday night with a bunch of 50, 60 wrote guys in an abandoned rat caught in a trade rocks. he gets an e-mail out of the blue. do you want to buy a moon rock from the u.s.? immediately his excited. but that he thinks something is fishy here and something is going on so he e-mails the fbi because he might be interested in this. the fbi create a whole case using axil as they're made for us. he reached out to me. wonderful guy. and nasa people were feeding him things they wanted me to know. and then i decided i want to go to nasa and see what it's like. so they said no one was allowed to talk to me. i went on their website, nasa.com and signed up for it to

her. they let 10 people do today. i figure that cross checked my name. but it's a government bureaucracy. i show up at nasa. they give me security back in the next thing i know i'm inside nasa. and then that robert starts texting me. he says okay, there's a door at the back of the cafeteria. so is lacking around with the guy who would rob nasa. i got a grade of information. i have a little group who helped me. i have a lawyer who is kind of one of those guys who can do anything. his private eyes who considers tampa and give me the court records. i did also file got the fbi file. they took a year for them to send them to me. >> i was amazed they found them at all. there were thousands of pages. so i knew everything they were saying was true.

i even had was in his pockets and he was arrested. you know, you see how hard they work when you get one of those files. they really go into it. they have research on moon rocks for 200 pages, just to noting the rockets. so you do get all the information that way. >> this is book tvs in-depth program. 202 is the area code. 737-0001. 202-737-0002 mountain and pacific time zones also send us an e-mail. but tv@c-span.org or twitter.com/but tv is our address. patrick new london, connecticut. you're on booktv. >> caller: hi guys, how are you? a question for you. when you're an author and become a screenwriter, what is the difference aside from the obvious having a consolidated into a movie format? does it get frustrating?

it seems to me whatever you watch a movie after you read a book like 99% of the time you can always say they resent being left out. i mean, i just went to the movies. i saw a movie in theaters. i was amazed the important things get left out of a screenplay that was about. i understand you can't fit it all in. can he talk about that a bit? >> first of all, i am not a successful screenwriter yet. i've done one or two. i did one adaptation of americans get made. sabonis and ibooks they bring in someone else who does it. it is a process. a screenplay is a different animal to make the peer at all of the interior dialogue and all of the motivations and all that stuff gets left out. they have to write it very succinctly, very action driven. and yeah, often movies are not as good as the books. i've been lucky. it was a phenomenal movie.

you know, they have to pick and choose. you can put everything in the book onto the screen. and also come as not always relevant. but i see movies before rice say they've left something out. and then i see movies where i feel like they put too much in. so it's all the strength of the screenwriter. someone who adapts their own work, the hard thing is cutting things. most writers make the mistake of putting too much in. he won a screenplay to run quickly. you wanted to be exciting and not spend a lot of time sitting around talking. and books you can get away with that. my books are written like screenplays. i get attacked for that as well. i am always thinking of the movie when i write. i visualize every scene and imagine justin timberlake running around doing it all. and that's how i sit down to write. so when i write comments as if i'm writing a movie. but they are different. people who write screenplays don't usually read books.

>> michael depaulo tweets into you, what are your upcoming products and storylines? >> guest: well, that's a good question. michael is in boston. i think i know boston. he's an incredible fashion designer who works in boston. he wants him to tell secrets. i am working on a big new project but i am not at liberty to say what it's about. it might be a female main character, which should be very new for me. i've never written a female main character before. if i write that the next that will be it. i'm not sure. i haven't decided yet what my next book is. i'm also working on television shows. i have a scripted show that i'm working on and then i have a show, reality type documentary show where i go inside stories every week, which i've been working on sort of like all

these macho guys on tv. on the opposite of that. so while the man first filed, i'm the guy who doesn't succeed. it's where i go inside stories every week and tells a story. all the stuff people pitch to me essentially. i become a part of it. you can see the story but then i get right out. so that's another show i'm working on. i don't know specifically what my next book is. i have an i.t. what i might eat, but i haven't fully decided. post the mud stick to rescind ugly american spirit are you familiar with carson block, muddy waters and the china media express route? >> guest: no. it sounds really intriguing. i have been paged a bunch of china stories. they are tricky because there's so much corruption. it's dangerous spending any time unless people making fortunes in china right now doing crazy things. but it's a little bit dangerous for me to do one of those

stories. i don't know specifically what a story is talking about, but there's been some good ones there. >> host: robert barakat e-mails are you familiar with richard hoagland's work in relationship to our moon? >> guest: richard hoagland. you know, it's familiar but i don't know. if you gave me mori might know what you're talking about. >> host: marriott in miami. good afternoon. you are on booktv with ben mezrich. >> guest: >> caller: [inaudible] [inaudible] >> guest: good question. a lot of people want to know -- a lot of people come a time in their stories my money. i had two types of people come and tell me stories. people who want money or people is so much money that they don't want money. they just want their stories told. which is often more fun.

but it depends on the situation. i'm not really trying to write biographies of people. i really want to read my books that are about true stories that happen, but it's a little bit different. i have in the past the main character for bringing down the house. i gave him 10% of pretty much everything. the movie was separate. they can be consultants on the film. it all depends on into the situation. you know, some of the books don't get anything. obviously the facebook book are all way richer than i will ever be for the rest of my life. it's different for every situation. my goal is to write the story. the problem and you pay the characters as you can become beholden in a way. it's a weird partnership would you write a story about someone because they're not going to let everything you write about. something still really dislike it when you tell a true story

they have to tell all the elements the story. so you really want to have some independence. you want to write the story as it happens. not necessarily if they want you to write the story. and so it is not a pay for higher situation where someone says i want you to write nice dory. and no, that's not how it happened. this is an incredible story and then i went to write it in and we have to work something out. if someone gets paid, it is because they are enabling the research. they are consulting on the fact that they consult on the film. if they consult and help on the film, then hollywood wants to buy life rights of the mix a story because it wants a story to be accurate. and i believe the hollywood studios much prefer someone who gives themselves and their life rates above to the point where it's accurate, but isn't running around the site trying to control everything. so the court is a partnership where i can write the book however the book has to be.

if the movie is made they can be involved in some way to consult on the film. but it's a good question different for every project. usually a main character of the book becomes a success, would get a lot out of it that is nothing to do with the payment of giving them. they can become famous. they can use that in any way they want. the people from the facebook book profited very well from it. ever wanted ferryboat including mark zetterberg. and for facebook here cannot believe he would've been on the cover of "time" magazine. i don't think the company would be worth $100 billion i really believe there was a big part of making your image cool. mark is way cooler in the movie then he was before the movie. and everyone knows than you may know him in a way that they would never have known him. i think that is a big positive. >> host: >> host: how is it