>> now on booktv, charles flood recounts the final year of ulysses s. grant the former president had terminal mouth and throat cancer and was a great financial straits when he began writing his memoirs in an attempt to a restore his. the author examines president grants writing process and the success of his memoirs that were finished four days before his death and published posthumously by mark twain. this is just over one and our. >> good evening everyone. in 1953, my very good friend charles flood made his debut upon the national literary stage with "the new york times" bestseller, love is a bridge.

having graduated 1951 from harvard college where he was mentored by archibald mcleish, charlie left the law forever and setting his sights on a more elusive pursuit of a full-time offer. charlie's novel was described by one critic as a first novel of exceptional merit and another critic wrote, when it is considered that love is a bridge, the first novel by a writer now in his 23rd year, it is a performance to harden anyone who looks to the future of a novel of the united united. nearly 50 years later charlie inscribe one of my copies urging me to keep the reviews contained in a reminder that the race is to be swift but also to the patient. and is nearly 60 years as an author of fiction come history and biography, charlie has followed his own true confidence, abandoning the novel when his new longer so vote to him and embracing instead the satisfaction found in historical

research. and embracing the world of nonfiction with the same compelling narrative skills and sharp eye for character that made his novels bestsellers. charlie's autobiographical tales that he has yet to put to paper are as fascinating as the insight he he is given to the lives of robert e. lee, a dolphin or, william tecumseh sherman and it was -- ulysses grant. how many living souls outside of allen's fictional protagonists laid by 01 wilson and the night knight terrorist can cache the recount having shared a cocktail hour with emmett -- ernest hemingway. a steam bath with arthur miller in new york. three men captured charlie cianci and he -- churchill hemingway and the pope. he batted two for three, somehow missing church hill to sir winston some portion less. charlie is charlie's a past president of the pen american center an organization founded

in 1922 to advance literature, defend free expression and foster literary fellowship whose membership is included the litter rare stars of the 20th century. he covered olympics in melbourne, rome, tokyo and mexico city for the "associated press." you as a senior fulbright scholar in taiwan and is fasting book on the disastrous losses of the american revolution that ultimately it to our victory rise and fight again one an american revolution roundtable award for the best work of its genre during the 1976 -- no faithful biography would admit the bumps in the road to add to the drama and emotional rollercoaster of a real-life. the year 1970 saw the publication of the war of the innocents. charlie's very personal account of his life and times with an attachment of an army company in the jungles of vietnam and cambodia. is narrative took no side in the political controversy surrounding the vietnam war. and go charlie's book remains

one of the surest unadorned and honest accounts of that war, his sales suffered for antiwar sentiment. during the years between the publication of his biographers on hitler's early rise to power in the deep and enduring friendship between grant and sherman that won the civil war, charlie wrote one of the most compelling historical novels i have ever read. the lead subject was matilda tuscany, an 11th century duchess whose life is a ruler and poirier was were as remarkable as any king or prince. unfortunately it was published in germany, not the united states so you'll have to take my word for it. in 2009 charlie's 1864 lincoln at the gates of history are and rave reviews including a glowing three-quarter page review in "the new york times." only to be in her soul by the publisher in the wake of the economic recession. throughout these many achievements and occasional setbacks, charlie's most stunning success and greater strength has been his wife kathy and his three fantastic children

and more recently grand children. and kathy transferred -- he quickly adopted the state of kentucky with open arms. he has performed most of his research in nature and kentucky university faithful to her love of thorough bred racing each bring if a call he can be found with made -- at keenan's clubhouse. and he fought the good fight against armies ever to make central kentucky a dumping ground for nuclear waste. he is the citizen patriot always ready for the most tried pass showing the limelight speaking out when necessary but never to hear himself pontificate. charlie has an endearing humanity and humility which adds tremendously to the stature as a person but may have served him less well in the literary world of insatiable egos. above all charlie has been his own man. he is a scholar, author, husband, father and friend.

and in being true to himself and his ideals he has never been driven by publishers unreasonable demands or another's perception of what he should be writing or how he should be writing it. in pursuing his own creative inspiration charles flood has heard many times over the accolades he has received from critics, colleagues and an adoring public. i proudly present to you my friend, charles graceland flood. [applause] >> it gives me a much better opinion of myself than i had five minutes ago. [laughter] i really wish that this would be in reverse because i would like to introduce jerry toner to you. i will however ask you just to go fast-forward and reverse with me and tell you a little bit about jerry. when i moved down here, i had

one connection with kentucky before i met cathy kathy that is, and it was that for seven years when i was a -- in the 19 50s, which were my 20s, i was something called -- on something called the board of overseers at harvard and the professors at harvard were not very pleased about this. it was likely regular army, who is this guy from the national guard coming in to look at us and telling us what we are doing? there was one guy that was very good name gary simmons senior and so whenever i would meet somebody from kentucky around the united states i would say well i think unlikely i know who this is by no one kentucky and. his name is gary bingham senior. and what do you know? they always knew who barry bingham senior was. i understood why they knew gary

bingham senior. in any event after i had been here a short time, barry who is very very nice to kathy and me, barry and his wife, mary, he asked me to come over here for two or three days and served on what he was duplicating of this commit a we had both been on prior to the english department at the university of louisville. so i did and found it very interesting, and as these couple of days went by, i became aware of this young man, very young man then, who was sort of always around and going to the right class and asking the right questions and that turned out to be gary toner. the very young and able lawyer here in louisville and we became

friends. when i say friends, i mean that we had been very close over the years. he and his wife carol have visited kathy and me up in maine and we have had a lot of fun together. of the many times that we have been to their very nice house and for terrific meals, one evening stands out in my mind. a few years ago, and jerry opens the fact that this new yorker does like to go to kindlon. it was one of the great onus is i founding coming down here, unexpectedly. and so, we were a fair the fact that every spring over here in louisville, despite what we think of keeneland to have an event called the kentucky derby. and so they were good enough to have us over, and jerry had scope this out.

we had terrific seats about 200 yards from the finish and perhaps up a few of these metal seats, a few rows, the problem was that there was no overhead overhang and it happened to be a day that was completely eclipsing this rain here today. jerry very wisely went up to a hardware store and appeared at a track with a huge t.a.r.p. and when i say it was huge there were 12 of us huddled under this thing during the day. so came the derby itself, and i am sitting there under this thing and we are perfectly placed to see the race if he can just keep wiping the rain out of your eyes. and comes this horse with a rather unglamorous name of smarty jones. i was able to see smarty jones at the perfect place because of

that 200 yards from the finish. he was looking around behind him to wonder where the other horses were. it was a great great race and then we all fell back, 12 of us in some other people to the toner's house. of all the dinner parties i have ever been to, this evening was the highest. everybody came pouring in like drowned rats in each person in each group had that little story of how they had survived this and where they had been and how it had all happened and it's just symbolic for me and the great friendship we have had so i do thanked jerry very much not just for his kind words tonight, but for many many years of friendship. so, now i will turn to what rings us all here, and i very much appreciate the opportunity to be here and appreciate your braving the reins and i will try to make it all worth your while.

you are aware of this book i think. my book begins in may of 1884, 29 years after appomattox. granted 62 years old and the most famous man in america. he is also on his way to being the most photographed man of the 19th century are going addition to his enormous contribution in winning the civil war, he has served two terms as president of the united states. grant was not in good health. among other things his slender stature had gained 40 pounds since his wartime weight of 146. he used crutches as a result of falling on icing new york sidewalks however no one, including grant, had any idea that he had only 14 months left to live. as we open on grant, he and his wife were living very comfortably in manhattan. they are able to afford this lifestyle because of the generosity of some rich new yorkers including jpmorgan. these men got together quite a

bit of money so that the grants could have the same kind of lifestyle that they had come ane they saw in ulysses s. grant the same kind of determination, the same kind of vision, the same kind of concentration that it wrought them great success in entirely different fields. as the richest man in the world, vanderbilt said he is one of us. that is the way grant struck these people. my plan now is to take you back, beginning of grants life, and give you some of the highlights on his way to 1884. i want to give you the man is he really was rather than as he had so often been portrayed. grant has been described as humorless, person who would never laugh at himself. he was tone deaf and he said i know two tunes, one is yankee doodle and the other is -- [laughter] grant was a son of the operator of a small town in ohio and

graduated from west point. after serving with distinction in the mexican war, he married julia dent in the highly intelligent vivacious cross site.org every prewar slaveholding family in missouri. the civil war historian called the marriage and i quote, one of the great romantic american love stories and so it was. separated from julia while serving on a remote army post on the west coast, he became desperately lonely and he was drunk on duty during a payday. is colonel gave him the option of facing a court-martial for resigning from the army. and grant said to some of his comrades, i would rather resign from the army than ever had show you know that i was court-martialed for being drunk. so he did indeed resign. seven years later when the civil war began in 1861 he returned to

the army starting as commander of our regiment with less than 1000 men. he rose to become general in chief of the entire union army, force of more than 1 million. in the process, and here's the point that so many have missed, he became a transitional figure in history for warfare. at shiloh an 1862, he was riding back and forth right behind the lines of an infantryman who were firing the nearby confederate ranks. by the time that abraham lincoln brought and beast in 1864 to command the entire union army and to oppose robert e. lee in northern virginia, he was communicating with his corps commanders like -- by telegraph from his headquarters miles behind the front. contrary to the myth that he is often drunk, at no time during the war was he incapable of effective action due to consuming alcohol. i see at the top of this page a handwritten note that says, take

a drink of water where do you think you need it or not. [laughter] grant not only developed enormous administrative skills, became a great strategist. more than any other general on either side, he understood that the rivers of the south were an integral part of a vast battlefield area and could be used as avenues for penetrating and cutting up the confederacy. lincoln described him this way. once grand gets a hold of the place, he acts as if he had inherited it. among the great impressions of grants, that is mistaken is that he really was not very bright. during the last year of the war, he created and incorporated into his headquarters at city.virginia what he called the bureau of military information.

this was in fact a sophisticated and highly effective 64 man intelligence gathering unit that surpassed anything that the confederates organize. while it's true that grand spilled a lot of blood on his attacks, it's also worth remembering what's lee thought about that. when lee's subordinates were telling him about the way that grand was recklessly piling up casualties, leave a reply, i think general grant is managing things are a well. virtually every american knows the story of the way in which ulysses s. grant set new standards of military honor by the kind and gracious way in which he accepted glee's surrender at appomattox courthouse but many are on a prayer of what came next. with the success prater johnson he tends to have we tried for treason a crime punishable by death. grant walked into the white house and told johnson that he

was protected by the pro-role that grant had given me and his men at appomattox. grant added that if we were arrested he would immediately resigned from the army in protest. johnson and his federal prosecutors had no intention of arguing with the immensely popular victorious commanding general of the united states united states army. they quietly halted the treason proceedings. lee was never arrested. >> the remaining five years up for our pretty lee's life he never about a word against grant to be spoken in his presence. in 1869, four years after the war ended, grant was sworn in as president of the united states a position he held for two terms. his first term was a success and and a second was not. during his second term, his political opponents launch 37 separate investigations into corruption in his

administration. despite their efforts, they could not demonstrate that he was involved in any of the scandals and many of them resulting from the naïve grants's this place trust in does he believe to be honest men. taking an action unique in american presidential history, and grants final message to congress, something later called the called the state of the union address, he apologized to the nation's legislators and prove to the mac and people his inadequacies as president. grant begin with us. it is my fortune or misfortune to be called to the office of chief magistrate without any political training. it is but reasonable to assume that errors in judgment must occur. he added that he claimed quote only that i have acted in every instance from a desire to do what was right, constitutional within the law and for the very best interest of the whole people.

as for ending slavery, and the subject of civil rights, soon after grant was sworn in, he announced to the congress for the ratification of the 15th amendment designed to protect the rights of blacks to vote. he said this. a measure which makes 4 million voters were heretofore declared by the highest tribunal to the citizens of the united states are eligible to become so is indeed a measure of grander importance than any other act of the kind from the foundation of our free government to the present day. it is worth noting that in the recent and long overdue movement among biographers and historians to restore grant from his rightful place in american history, professor sean willens of cranston-based the position

that granted more for civil rights than any other american president between lincoln and lyndon b. johnson. once more i want to bring the lesser-known side of grant to your attention. after his white house days in 1879, ulysses s. grant and his wife julie embarked on a two year trip around the world planned as a private sightseeing journey and an immense tribute to grant. he symbolized the burgeoning post-civil war america and industrial and military power to be reckoned with. he and julia julie dined with queen victoria at windsor palace. in berlin, he spent two hours with germany's iron chancellor bismarck, who grant characterized as quote the greatest statements of the present time. bismarck treated him with great respect as a military and national leader who possess first-hand knowledge that he,

bismarck was eager to acquire. all this brought grant and chill show chill you to what neither of them thought would be the last chapter of his life. the year of 1884 dons him living in manhattan in a handsome townhouse just east of the fabulous millionaires mansions on fifth avenue. this was the era in our history known as the gilded age. ulysses and -- ulysses grant jr. had become partner node as grantor were. the moving spirit of this enterprise was ferdinand ford, known as the young napoleon of wall street. grant had put all of this money under awards management and had encouraged all of his immediate family to follow his example. at that moment, ward was showing prospective investors papers indicating that the firm had a capitalization of 16 million. on that basis, grant had reason to think he was personally worth as he put it, quote nigh onto a

million. this at a time when household service would pay $5 a week. to financial struck swiftly. overnight in may of 1884, ward's fraudulent house of cards collapse. collapsed. he had been running what a later generation would call a ponzi scheme. grant and his family lost all their money. the description of grant as he was at this juncture was left by robert underwood johnson, a brilliant young editor on the staff of century magazine. johnson met with grand at his enjoying his summer cottage in long branch new jersey to discuss the possibility that writing articles about his famous travels and campaigns. johnson found a man far different from the graph for your he expected to encounter. he wrote, the man who we have been told was solid and reserve showed himself to me as a person of the most sensitive nation and the most human expression of

feeling. grant quote gave me the impression of a wounded lion. he had been heard to the quick and is proud name and is on her. he told me frankly and simply that he had arrived at long branch almost penniless. at long branch, julie hooper eight years and have the white house staff at her disposal, did all the cooking for her ulysses as she called them and their family and guess. with johnson guiding him, grant began to write about shiloh the first of four articles described it as his victorious battles. he found -- enjoyed it and johnson was the first to discover that the same man who could write the clearest most direct military reports and after action reports and military orders was capable of descriptive writing that transported the reader into the middle of gunfire and the naming of cavalry horses. is grant focused his prodigious powers and concentration on his four articles for the century, he began to think of expanding

this initial effort in what became his massive and powerful personal memoirs. it was now grants friend mark twain who entered the picture. twain already greatly famous for his adventures of tom sawyer and other works, was about to publish huckleberry finn. he may grant an offer generous to grant and although speculative potentially very lucrative for himself. he would publish grants them where's or a small publishing firm run by his nephew, charles webster, and get grant $200,000 s. and it ends on his venture. twain, always a man for images, described the arrangement this way. if these chicken should ever hatch, general grants royalties will amount to $420,000 will make the largest single check ever paid to an author and world's history. if i pay the paid the general and silver coins, at $12 per

english bound, it will raise 17 tons. has grant continued writing in the summer of 1884, he suffered increasing pain and discomfort in his mouth. by late october, this had been diagnosed as cancer primarily of the tong. the result of smoking literally thousands of cigars. this was in fact a death sentence. the dramatic question now facing grant and the american public when they later learned of it was, could he complete his memoirs before he died? during the spring of 1885, as grant pushed himself ever harder as he rode in his house in manhattan, the people of both the north and the south while still divided in post-war political issues began to come together in an example of the american respect for courage and the native instincts to pull for the underdog. mark twain had been right in

thinking that grant could recount his civil war experiences effectively but it was rolled over by what he now saw and read. averaging a production of 750 words a day while in a condition which he likened to a drink of water to quote molten lead, grant was putting on paper a worker for marketable the dreary quality. twain compare these memoirs with julius caesar's commentaries, saying, the same distinguished both books, clarity of statement, directness, simplicity, monotheists truthfulness fairness and justice to friend and foe alike and avoidance of flowery speech. general grants book was a great, unique and unapproachable literary masterpiece. there was no higher literature than these modern simple memoirs. their style is flawless. no man can improve upon it. during his months it became evident that americans not only in the north but in the south

had come to have a special feeling for grants. he had always had his critics but other than during his white house years, he was referred to them thought of as general grant. learning of his grave illness crowds often gathered outside his house on e. 66 trade. when he sometimes appeared to go for a carriage ride in central park, the reactions would range from applause to solemn silence. with men in the crowds taking off their hats. excuse me while i take another sip. and i certainly thank you. nobody knows this when people look at their watches or move their feet when they look at a speaker. that is not happen once. the time of grant 63rd birthday on april 22, 1885, 20 years after the nation's great redemptive moment that happened -- appomattox courthouse it was clear a new generation not born at the time

of the surrender was growing up with an inbuilt feeling toward a man who, like lincoln, it preserved the union. typical of the letters he received from young people was this one from maggie irving, of louisville kentucky. she said in part, i am a little louisville girl who likes you so much. all general grants, please, please get well. i don't write you to get your autograph or anything of the sort. and the right to let you know how we all of you. i hope you won't suffer a bit. general grant, please accept the best wishes and love of this little louisville girl. ..

in upstate new york i what was known as not muckraker i'm a big new resort hotel named the bell model had been built in this cottage is down a slope some 200 yards from the. here grant dug into what was utterly a do or die effort. writing with a pen and ink exhausted and in his weakened condition. it was order dated to take dating is not the two-volume mark. at one point he had a brief discussion with his oldest son, frederick, concerning the dedication. grant hackett has these volumes dedicated to the american soldier and sailor. critics just a day should be changed to specify the soldiers

and sailors who had five for the north. he replied its a great deal better than it should be dedicated as the days. as it is the dedication is to those who fight against us for those who thought we have. it ensures the purpose and restoring harmony. grant thought it quite a passion for the nation he had fought to preserve it will prove to be the last weeks of his life, his mouth and throat choke with music and bleeding from cancer at me sometimes dictated a barely audible whisper, prices may skip at the pencil resorted to writing has thought out pieces of paper. on one of these, he wrote a summation of his family to former confederate generals, simon boulevard but you can be saying that not muckraker. eyewitness says messick is just what they wish to see since the wart. arminian good feeling between the sections.

i believe myself that the workers were told that it cost us, fearful as it was. since it was so rare, i have visited every state in europe and a number in the far east. i know is they could not be if the value of our inheritance. on july 20th, 1885, it is a ulysses s. grant finished the last changes he wished to make in this manuscript. he wanted majors with his family surrounding his bed, his last moments began. he tied with julio holding his hand. the temporary resting place for grant granted and selected riverside park in manhattan for cliffs high above the hudson river in a circular brick mausoleum had been built. on the day that grants coffin now closed was brought up their already at wayne state downtown in manhattan city hall. the largest crowd ever to assemble on the north american continent. estimates ranged from half-million to one and a half

million people around the five-mile loop of his funeral procession. what they witnessed was the united states showing the world how to honor a national hero. thousands of carriages followed the massive catafalque on which his coffin rested. the crowd saw president grover cleveland, reference or b. hayes and chester are done and the justices of the supreme court. the governor said every state in the union went by in the order in which the state had originally come at the union. on the military side, there is a galaxy of general spirit of 40,000 pass, including the west .2 deaths were armbands. music was provided by 250 fans in german courts. proof of how grant had brought the nation together with the fact that confederate journalist joseph e. johnston and simon oliver dr. worm on the beyond the artistic sense.

the last large segment of the enormous beret, a democracy's tribute to ohio with a column of fate does and the like and then appointed officials from all over the united states. the parade combination of military strength and the representatives of constitutional law would have please grant to believe so firmly in the prosperous future he saw for the country you served. in addition to the public outpouring of respect and affection, those who knew grant well had more private reactions. on the date grant type, mark wayne wrote in his notebook. it was a very great man and superlatively good. on their own, many citizens north and south relays fayard ennio that it is possible to be a sometimes ineffective president. what a creep and nonetheless. what is for us like to?

despite the rise and fall of historical schools of thought that if skewered and diminish its role our history, he and lincoln remained the two men who did the most to ensure that our country would remain one nation rather than to become two nations, one of which was committed to maintaining slavery as a legal institution. his memoirs were published to great acclaim in the sales of mark twain had hoped for guaranteed truly would live comfortably for the rest of your life. this is an educated audience and made bookstore, so i will take a minute or two to explain this legacy. 126 years after grant finished it, just this far in 2011, the personal memoirs of ulysses s. grant is so close to 50,000 copies. now this is just this year. in three hardback into paperback editions, that figures even more impressive when one considers that the copyright has long

since expired and unknown numbers of copies are downloaded free from the internet. so how do you sum up this unique life? in a speech given 15 years after grant's debt, theodore roosevelt placed him in the very first rank of american, agreed that men like benjamin franklin and thomas jefferson deserve to be regarded as enormously valuable citizens. he saw grant is something more than not spoke of in this way. as we look at with keener wisdom in the nation's past, mightiest among the mighty dead, live the figures of washington, lincoln and grant, t.'s three greatest men have taken their place among the great men of all nations, the great men of all time. they stood to put in the two greatest crises in our history of the two great occasions when we stood in the vein of humanity and struck the two most effects

of both have have ever been struck for human freedom under the law. of all that was appropriate about grant, nothing would've pleased him more than julius heartfelt in the memory of the man she called you this. julia said, i his wife arrested in and was formed in the sunlight of his boiled up in great pain and now, even those beautiful light has gone out, it is as if when some far-off planet disappears and i have been come to light it your hands reaches out to me, falls upon me. thank you very much. caught back [applause] >> thank you. let me say again i very much appreciate that no twitching. it's noticeable when it happens. i am ready to do with your

questions. i hope you have questions. i like the question-and-answer period after as i'm concerned, there's no questions. if i don't audience there, i will tell you that. and in a group like this, i'm sure there always is somebody who knows them and that i don't know. that is the time for me to learn. in any case, please, please come at me with your questions. yes, ma'am. sorry. this lady over here, please. go ahead. [inaudible] >> first, state president was the governor's wife, mrs. simon buckner command and then researching insane pictures of all of those previous state presidents understood that she was from virginia. and yet you say she was from richmond. >> i made the mistake. i went to a sourcebook that

should have been right and they were wrong. so i thought i'm from richmond, she's richmond. put it in a book. but i was strong. >> i was thrilled. >> i was thrilled to think she was from richmond. >> i was, too, briefly. [laughter] but good catch. good catch. very, very good. please, somebody else. yes, behind you, jerry. >> i cannot i question over dinner. >> i have always found the civil war so fascinating and grant and lincoln. can you speak a little bit about what you know about their relationship, especially during the warriors, how often did they meet? what was there relationship? >> excellent question.

the answer is a little bit disappointing, but knowing both men and their responsibilities, and they did not meet often. however, grant had a very -- he can't lincoln's attention at vicksburg and after vicksburg. lincoln said at the time, doing a little bit of transposing of the words here, but in effect he said if graham pulls this off, grant is my man and i am his for the rest of the war. that is indeed what happened. he bought grantees and although grant had these advantages, the fact is though these predecessors as commanders of the army potomac also had these advantages and did very, very little with him. so i said rather go with police estimate than almost anybody else's. i also want to digress for a moment. i don't think this is -- i think

this touches on the question about the relationship. but anyway, lincoln very much appreciate grant and grant appreciated the opportunity. he told lincoln when he came to washington to accept nsaid and affect i'm going to do the best i can and i'm going to ask you for what i need. i'm not going to ask you for anything more. let's see how it goes. lincoln said that's just great with me. also, it is that the story was around during the war that a delegation went to lincoln fairly early in the war in as well, this man is a drawn and lincoln replied, well, if you can get me the kind of liquor -- the name of the kind of liquor that he drinks, i'll send a barrel home. now somebody else went to lincoln during the war, told the historian said mr. said mr. president, it's true. lincoln who loved a good stories that i wish it were what it's

not. so there you have that one. but excellent question gave me a chance to digress here and there. anybody that they're? please. yes, sir, the white-haired gentleman that they are. >> remembers the young boy as a butcher in a drunken throughout high school he was not portrayed as a very significant president. and so, you certainly elevated here to very successful human. >> that's a really good question. and there's been a lot or recently about this. there was -- he was what theodore roosevelt said until about 1900. that was a perception, a valid perception. and then this reconstruction era is really after the reconstruction era, but all these historians decided to become revisionists. and their idea was -- i think it

translates into this, we're going to really come in really as a the robert e. lee, who deserved it. it's a great man, great general and noble figure. they thought in order to get lee up, they had to put grant down. as late as 1992 you had a respect at northern historian saying, i don't see how ulysses s. grant could ever look at himself in the mirror. he was a pathological murderer. so this redress as i expected earlier in the talk is long overdue. that's what you have here. very good question and it's really very korona what's going on amongst the historians and biographers these days. i hope anybody else but here before i come up to a trustworthy one? sir, please. >> president of the college unless they are, was there any contact between grant family? >> that's another very good question.

i didn't plan it, but if i had that's what i would have enjoyed answering. a few weeks after grant was sworn in, there is order in it for his first term. he invited robert e. lee, who had been dead for five years the president of washington college became washington lay upon his death in ways that there's going to be within a very few month. he invited to call on him at the white house. now, this was the last thing that he wanted to do. because if you stand in the back of the capital, look across the river come easy arlington house, which is his families -- his wife's family dwelling which became the core of the arlington cemetery. but this is not really want to do. washington held no pleasure for him. he had written shortly before the war and trying to explain its reasons for saying they could take no part in an invasion of the south.

of course what you look at his invasion of the south. of course it is the very first thing taken of the south in an invasion of the south was the blue clad union army crossing the river and taking arlington. so it was not a pleasure for lee. those republicans who voted for grant and there are millions of them are just horrified at the man they put in the white house was turning around and biting what they saw as the chief -- the rebel chieftain, man, to call in the white house. what both of them understood was that grant was inviting the weight so, already having done quite a bit cheaper check the rates of blacks he was inviting the white south back to the white house in the prison of robert e. lee. lee arrived and talked for about 15 minutes. only last and they never saw each other again. but i think it's very symbolic

of both of them that we tried very hard after the war to heal the wounds between north and south in a constructive way and granted the same thing. it's a very good question that hits right on the meaning of the lives of these two men. as a thank you asking it. >> sera, way back there. >> i have enjoyed reading about anything i can find about grant for a long time. >> any speak up just a little bit. >> i've enjoyed reading about his many books as i can find. several books i've read about grant, including her book about grant and sherman. it was terrific. i enjoyed it. but i thought this crowd might be interested one night in maybe eight or 10 years ago i was watching oak notes on sunday night in the british historian and, ron keegan does quite a military historian. he was being interviewed by brian lamb.

and lamb asked him, who would you say is the greatest general of all time in the united states? and then he offered to thought, would it be eisenhower? he said no, no wouldn't. eisenhower was a very great general. but he said without question the greatest general ever in the united states was u.s. grant. he said if you wouldn't have been u.s. grant, they're very likely would not have been one united states. i thought that was the ultimate compliment. >> i do too and i think it's coming from a very gifted military historian. i didn't happen to know about that exchange, they certainly buy into it. i know jerry has something to ask me. anybody else? >> andersen generally made application for restoration of citizenship and grant never acted on that. >> would have been to that is extremely interesting. i wrote in a new book called lee: the last years a long time

ago. what happened was he did do that. they got pigeonholed, literally in an office in washington does not rediscover it for more than 100 years in the name interestingly enough happen to be general forward. so he did do that. but i don't know how much difference it really made since he'd grant protecting him every inch of the way. and in a sense, almost protecting his reputation after his death. that's another very good question and shows quite a bit of knowledge on the subject. thank you for the question. i think it's time for my good friend, jeremy tony. >> taking back to the year of lincoln's final full year, 1864, could you tell the folks here a little bit about your attempts to patent grant to follow the pattern of mcclellan and other

generals to kind of turned on their commander-in-chief and what that did or didn't say about grant sense of worldview purpose and cutting those truth to his pledge so to speak? >> well, he certainly -- i think he didn't necessarily say, lincoln is asking me to come and therefore that's it. but i think he felt very strongly that by a process elation, grant was not in eric anibal. i think he felt that he had seen others fail and it was his turn and he was going to come east and he was going to do the very best he could. add a little bit touches your question, but he certainly never, never in any way criticize lincoln. his idea was that lincoln had his job to do.

he grant had his job to do and god willing between them they would get it done. and that of course is just exactly what happened. i hope that answers the question. >> a follow-up question going back to grant and sherman. did he retain his friendship with chairman? >> is very tricky. there was some back and forth after the war about sherman wanted his position as commander of the army and other positions to which he exceeded to be better to find. and grant was not prepared to do that at the time. one of his appointees was going to die within a few. and so there was a falling out for a time. but when the chips were down and grant was mortally zero, guess who came to new york from st. louis to see him but

sherman. they met a number of times and sherman wrote one of his daughters. he said grant says that my visit to do more good than all the visits and is combined. and when we had the final moment, which is that this temporary tomb, but not that far from where the great marble stadium was later date, it chairmen have been the marshall at this parade. and the last moments before it grants -- sorry, before his coffin was put behind this meant ok'd out this quick mausoleum, it he was playing cops looking straight at sherman and sherman is looking straight at the bugler. and sherman who is always a good figure at west point carriage and so forth withstanding absolute and his whole body was convulsively shaking and sobbing. so that is how the amended.

>> yes, sir, that bear. >> how much of the amicable nature of the surrender at appomattox came from grant and how much came from lincoln or somebody higher up? >> this was entirely, entirely krantz show. i mean, there is no evidence that lincoln, other than ms., lincoln may have been thinking parallel when he went in to richmond very shortly before he was killed. and he said to the american defers the union general in richmond, he said letting my pc. and grant may have been thinking parallel terms, but also at grant understood was that if he didn't let the makos they are at appomattox, if he decided to make them prisoners of this event, it could still be going on today. i mean, they were ready, these soldiers, although they were

starving their brief to the very end saying let us at him again, general or we will go back in the hills and obese neighbors. he even said that to some of the men and officers who were urging him to fight on. he said no, this is over. were finished now. goodbye to add one more thing on that, that occasionally after the war somebody brought up to the global subject of how constitutional was secession and so forth? there are still some to this day. and we said in a wonderful understatement, you can imagine the noble eloquent, gracefully. he said that issue has been decided by force of arms and that is the most wonderful way of closing a subject forever and he was accepted that way at the time. but thank you again for that. anyone? >> yes, sir. >> i am with you as long as you

want to be with me. anyone who wants to walk around or anything, please do so. >> we are at a sheraton figure. >> i myself think the problem with -- is sort of a booster club for thomas. but i think unfortunately they overplayed their hand. i think the great, great union generals were great number one, sherman number two, and beat number three and shared in the great cauvery number four. thomas can be in there somewhere else, but there's always going to be a diehard saint thomas has been neglected and he should be a little higher. that's my belief. and i would say eisenhower and anyone else -- i think winston churchill is one of my great heroes. he was asked after the war what he thought about alexander in italy are not covering oral over the place. how do you rate them?

and he said it depends on the task. if you transpose that to us in world war ii, what marshall had to do with entirely different for what macarthur had to do, which was entirely different from what patton had to do, which was entirely different from what eisenhower had to do. so who knows. each man a name came to just very odd to be. anybody else? yes, ma'am. >> anything you can speak to about where his grant or his reaction to the assassination? >> that's a very interesting question. i'm sorry. i said i'd be here as long as he wanted me to be. that's an extremely interesting thing, which i go into detail in the grant and sherman book as it happens. he was taking his wife julia to a house rented a new jersey. and stop being at a station

where they're going to to switch trainings. this courier cannot form and looks at this telegram and he just won a white. and julia always intuitive what is it? well, the president and don't is if anything is happening. nobody else knows this yet. i'm going to get you a house in new jersey tonight and then i'm going to go back. but had he not been doing that with julia, he was supposed to be in that box with lincoln. now what great leaders that and he was a modest man, but he said because grant was in his way very muscular guy. he said, i wonder if i could have, you know, stop them from doing it or at least captured him and wrestled him to the ground. but there are things about that data were almost uncanny, but i think that gives you their reaction. he was certainly truly, truly grieved. there's no question about that.

>> yes, sir. >> joshua lawrence chamberlain. covered him yet? >> what would you like me to say? >> i'm just curious what she thought. i'm just curious what your thoughts are. it's kind of a diversified individual. >> that's a wonderful story. the problem is there's so many stories. maybe they serve breakfast here. anyway, joshua chamberlain mayfield is a strong part of my background. joshua chamberlain was a professor of classics at houghton college in maine before the war. any other choice a choice as the war broke out. he was due for a sabbatical from which a classics professor with him there or join the united states army. he was a terrific example of the complete amateur who just had a chum in this military gift. his great moment -- there were several cave moments, the two that i want to isolate for you. they are at his 20th name was

the outfit was that aboveground top at gettysburg. then they stood just absolutely firm. and that is something else. i have mixed feelings. i had a great grandfather who has been second kansas congaree had three horses shot out from under him, was in the trans-mississippi wars it was called. spent the last year of his life in a prison camp in texas. so you know, and i wrote a war and sympathetic of robert e. lee. on the other hand, i want to tell you up in maine you go of those historical societies and see these men from the 10th maine, for you then at their reunions 24 years later is a very serious group of men who you can see there 20 years past their musket bearing incarnation