more about violence now, so a lot of things did not even count as violence and now we consider them to the heinous crimes. the most but an example is genocide, which before the 20th century no one thought there is anything particularly wrong with genocide. all over the old testament. there was a change in sensibility that has gone further and further down the scale to isolate behavior's that before were okay. my favorite example, the targeting of bullying. no less than the president of the united states give a policy address on what we're going to do will bullying in the playground. ..

>> only we also did were

looked into how they're tracking people on the iphone and and trifling and real unveiled this situation where ft -- facebook was a member of a transmitting information a people 70's to dozens of companies. we ended up finding ourselves in a situation where we had more to write about so we have continued the series this year not the same branding but covering the same issues. >> who are some of the third parties that track and how do they? >> we found there are hundreds of companies that are in the business to collect information about how people behave with visual media and selling it. but most often they sell it to advertisers. they either collect

information for themselves if they go to a website about coffee and then view the abbott there is the increasing number of companies that duet as the intermediary. and then all long-range of companies that want to transmit and adds rorer other types of companies are experimenting using this saturday the. and then talk about people's on-line habits in credit card history may be a replacement for the blood and urine test as far as predicting when to give life insurance. >> host: how is it the third parties can track you? do they install something?

what that the internet providers are being aware this is being installed? >> essentially but it is provided by different companies. one me be rubbing the back end service or a piece of the page. there are a lot of different companies involved so some of those that are trafficking with personal data. it is difficult with the pieces of the website they often don't know what is happening. for instance, obery wrote the story about super cookies is a type of tracking that is hard for

users to delete and we found this on the microsoft web site, they did not realize it was old code laying around there is not a lot of quality-control so they may find a way to place a piece of code on the website because it had a relationship then it never gets recent-- removed. >> host: that seemed to be the case where you talk with the company and they said we had no idea we're getting that deprivation. news seemed to happen rather frequent the. >> i think it happens in almost every single case. and with how unruly the whole marketplace is we have

become the privacy police. and we did not realize that was happening. >> host: talk about the different tracking devices, the super cookies and the committee write about in the "wall street journal." >> starting looking at cookies which are tiny text files when you visit a web site are download on to your computer so what happens when you have that 80 it has a relationship with that guide the company they know you are there. so companies like doubleclick on the majority of web sites.

there is a doubleclick that will notice you have a cookie with a doubleclick guide the and you have a pretty extensive dossier on all the different websites you have visited. sowed generally that is true so that amounted to tell to figure out who it is but that the tracking is anonymous. cookies for the first now there has been an explosion. begins are a little bit of javascript that runs live well you are on a page. sometimes it will drop but the key were sometimes it will see where you are moving your mouse, a can read the content on the page

and looks like they're reading content about this medical condition and will add that to the dossier. the mouse is suffering over this section about diabetes, you must be diabetic. then this super cookies when there are other places that day drop the it file the little place in the file but then some creative companies have found new places to store the ied numbers the browser cache files were in the flash player so these other storage places are considered super cookies and difficult for users to manage because even if you know, to delete the cookies you may not look at those of

their super cookies. >> host: what are the opt out provisions? >> you can opt out of most of them but there is no law saying that they have to opt out but if you go to doubleclick to click on the opt out but in you will be opted out of receiving targeted advertising. you cannot of about of the tracking as though they are still likely collecting the data because in some ways it is just transmitted automatically but basically they promise not to use it to deliver targeted ads to you. but no the -- but not all companies had that. >> host: julia angwin, how quickly has tracking devices grown and how close are we

too personally identify people? >> this industry has been exploding. is started to take off to him in 2007 and hundreds of companies in at least 5 billion a venture capital put into this industry. so they come up with creative ways coming up with the insatiable demand to find out more information. they are getting closer there was a study that said there is a huge amount does identity information on the web and it is being sent to the tracking company is. they created an account but

to see the user radio other not was more than half of them. to say they did not know it was being transmitted but it is becoming harder to make the argument that it is true the anonymous the special with services like facebook and google who already know the wire. when they already know that the white button is all over the web they'll also see you on this site they know who you are in which website you are on. >> host: what is the benefit to being tracked? what is the downside? >> the benefits are that you get advertisements that mean

something to you so i am sure we have been looking at something online like a sweater or a toy than later they see that advertisement for something similar because they could figure out your interest the end provide you with the advertisement. but your content could be tailored but looking at the political articles you do get some personalization but even if you don't mind the targeted ads you know, if the police station people are collecting and to in some people don't like having everything personalize to them they may want to to experience the internet that is commonplace not totally tailored to you

where everything you see as a reflection of what people think that you are. oftentimes when i do research i don't want to prove goal to make a guess what i am looking for i want to see what is out there in the world. >> host: have you found if you do the google search where they know where your computer is located that some of that is tailored toward you? >> many do not realize google search is unique to them i use the plug in so i could do anonymous an ally to compare the results to one and knows who i am is often very different. sometimes i prefer the personalized but i like to be aware.

>> talk about it in your riding and personal experience to find yourself trapped when you put things in your i.r.a. shopping cart. >> yes. un of seeing that then don't buy that that will probably go around i like to do window shopping i'll put the issues in my part but then i don't buy them. that is my idea, but then i will see those shoes for another two weeks. i.r.a. is looking for a bathtub that have followed me around four cup leaks leaks -- couple of weeks. [laughter] >> host: what about the sophisticated level of tracking online? >> actually eric schmidt

express them well and said i don't think we understand the implications, i am paraphrasing, of living in the society where everything that we do is being watched. phones are transmitting our location. our computers are transmitting everything that we look at. it is becoming a situation where we are creating a toll surveillance system. it doesn't always have your name attached, but it does have the implications because living in a society where you are always watches different than living in a society where you're not take can affect your behavior to make you feel paranoid. so without limits on the use of that date akamai do think people will continue to be

fearful about what might happen when they are being monitored. >> host: is their limits on the use of that data today? is congress interested or court case this? >> there is no comprehensive privacy law. there are some that address specific types so it is there is a lot that for that information if you are a college student on campus but a lot of these are limited. so your college student life as the moment that you graduates at that point* the alumni association can sell your name to give the information to anybody they want some more of the aggressive marketers are out

there and the hipaa law is restrictive and terms of medical researchers getting access to data but strangely not as restrictive with some hospitals sharing its myth affiliate's those so many times they can share data throughout the system much easier than somebody who is trying to cure cancer can. a lot of the current law does you could say they're not perfect her a whore comprehensively looking at our privacy and the digital age. >> host: is there legislation that this pending your being introduced? what about the courts speaking out on this issue? >> there is legislation pending. there are several bills in congress. senator kerry and senator mccain introduced comprehensive bill that

would set baseline privacy laws about minimizing the sale of data that have to set up baseline rules. there are other bills that aims to set up a system where people can be choose not to be tracked than they have to respect that request. also location privacy bills that would limit the automatic transmission from the location of cellphones. i do not see huge progress this year but that may have to do with the election cycle.

>> host: this is the communicators on c-span for talking with julia angwin senior technology editor with "the wall street journal" also author of the books dealing myspace. an illinois native columbia university graduate and a pulitzer prize writer. for years we have been writing about how the need need, the desire to put medical records on line electronically. is a privacy issue the fact these private companies have so much information about us the reason it has not happened? >> i am not entirely sure

why the medical records has not have been. that is a complex issue because of the health care system but generally, people are anxious to control their own data and would want to have their medical records because that is something they could control. google tried this and it did not work out. i think they were too early but the issue i see is there are all these companies that control our data and a lot of us would feel more comfortable if they controlled it themselves or at least have access brokaw oftentimes you never write to ask for your data but you do in europe. right now, facebook has been handing out its files about everybody in europe because

people will realize they can use a lot to request the data that facebook has about them. we don't have a similar law but that is becoming more of a flash point* not that you don't want it to exist but that you want access to it. >> host: how can people protect themselves with their keystrokes her they put their mouse is being tracked? you can turn off the javascript, there is a plug and called the no script that turns it off to prevent that from happening. however your experience on a lot of websites would be broken. some mou you could turn on a cookie blocking and your experience will be diminished. the problem is is there's no great way to prevent the tracking for price he wants

to remember what is in your shopping cart a cookie remembers your login and it is difficult to turn off the bad news while keeping the good turned on. there are some tools out there but that will make your experience little slower war more complicated. >> host: tracking is not amused for tracking purposes but law-enforcement how was that done? >> law-enforcement has access where the things three has been provided about recently is lower

standards from our e-mail accounts then if they want to search our home broke there is growing concerns about different standards for searches and seizures breaking about the privacy act passed in 1986 which aimed to protect his soul communications but but then they can go to go in without showing probable cause that to show it is relevant. >> the one has been

happening says the courts are divided. most at the request government puts forward data with a federal magistrate judges and some say yes and some say no so their rulings on both sides then oftentimes the cases are sealed so it is difficult for reporters but a few of them have made it to appeals. good to say it is totally fine but there has to be a higher standard. >> what does this the "wall street journal" put toward the internet policy that goes with these issues? >> so with the standards of most newspapers we have bureaus all over the

world, of washington bureau, i am in york with a very small team myself but i can tap the resources that we have. we have people in san francisco to contribute did -- contributed, washingt on, i would say it is hard to quantify because it is a loose network not die have pointed them to the public but generally we have great resources. >> host: something else to have written recently is the facial recognition recognition-- recognition technology. >> right after 9/11 there was a bunch of experiments with facial recognition that was a flop. they tried to use to

recognize a possible terrorist. it was too early they did not understand the parameters. the biggest bass this is what to compare it to. with the various attributes but it would you look at to say where am i? over the past 10 years the technology thinking the faces of done better or the database to which to compare them but here is how some police or share for around the country rollout the new-line phones to be used for facial recognition. they can also do iris recognition which is more accurate and they hope to build a big database and using vests to identify some

other issue that would not have realized when i stop them for a speeding ticket that by doing that they could pull of the database to see if there's anything else outstanding to make sure they catch them for that. >> host: comment julia angwin, they would you look back at what you have reported on the last couple years and the trends that you see in the internet technology and the use of social that working, all the privacy issues, what concerns do the most? ribisi the trend going? >> guy eaker up in this era where the internet was so full of promise. at first we all felt the euphoria that we can

research any topic and the internet as men such an exciting and incredible development. now we realize the cost of the great tool that not that the tool is not great but it does come with the cost. :is the consummate be monitored you're constantly on your blackberry at dinner your spouse will divorce you but how do in the midst of possible harm? because you don't want to live in a surveillance state or in libya where they keep files on every dissident but the tools are available if we don't train them and read do think that bad actors could use them that way. >> host: julia angwin is senior technology editor for "the wall street journal", you can read her reporting on line at the

"wall street journal." thank you for being on "the communicators". >> citi evening. i am alive and in new york public library is a goal is to make the lion's roar to make it levitt say when successful in then we have a proud sponsor of the new york public library and a

half men nine if for some years now and also members of the new york public library from a firm that was founded from forward thinking eight approaches installations with a major practice areas corporate energy and environmental services and real estate litigation. thank you very much. [applause] briefly, let me tell you about some of our other evens coming of this evening. next week i will interview from afterwards peter sellars, and many others. the following week diane keaton, just before

thanksgiving, followed right after thing sick giving we may find out more and stay on top of next season as it opens with oliver stone. tom brokaw will sign books after our conversation and once again it is a pleasure to think our independent bookseller. [applause] >> the first 10 people who sign up after our even to to become friends of the new york public library if you're already friends, but support us more if you know, what i mean will get tom brokaw this new book out for

free. you all the owe who'd tom brokaw is. the last few years i have asked the various for a biography written buy themselves in seven words. the haiku of sorts if maybe tom brokaw and i will talk about. [laughter] so he sends me the following seven words. it's i ask for seven and they gave me 27. no. he knows the assignment. he said curious. talkative. impulsive. impatient. forgetful am i. tom brokaw.

[applause] ♪ >> that was for you. you love to frank sinatra. >> i do. eye hand the experience my generation he was larger than life in many ways and i encountered not always pleasantly but all i was a reporter he did not like to be in the news especially the way he got himself there. he would do something inappropriate and we would report to the next day his public relations person would come to see me to say.

frank doesn't think you are aware that he is underwriting and northridge in mexico. [laughter] for some good deed. i said i did hear about that that does not excuse the bar brawl that he was involved. or whenever. then one evening here in new york we have a mutual friend, a legendary figure by the name of swift the who is said great a dent. he invited me to dinner at it turns out he also invited franken his wife. what will this be like? sinatra came, is that down and looked at me and said kid come i watch her every morning. i was doing the "today show" at the time. he turned on the chart. i have tickets to my show. i was instantly seduced. you did not know which one would the show up but when a

good one showed up, he was absolutely wonderful. >> you went to the concert? >> i did not i had another occasion later but he made one of his greatest albums at nbc because we have the best sound system. the audio wizard who worked back in the day said stick around tonight it will be about 2:00 in the morning but you will want to hear this. so i went to the sound stage way in the back where nobody could see me and he came in at 2:00 in the morning i saw the artist because he worked with the orchestra, the score in one carlos and was all business the focus to do take after take after take and i thought that is why

who he is because he was so good at it. >> i promise we will not only talk about frank sinatra of that that is a story also mentioned he was the voice in the one thing you are known for tremendously is your own voice. >> but it is widely imitated. [laughter] nobody does a better than me. [laughter] i am picked up on a lot it is a form of flattery. i cannot sing one notes. with girls are fine but if the paint comes off the wall of i open my mouth to sing. >> host: i would like to begin simply by referencing the subtitle of your new book, the time of our life. this until wreaths, who we are, where we have been coming and where we need to

go now to recapture the american dream. when i read this subtitle, i was rather struck by how loaded the terms are. and as a foreigner in this country 30 years, what does that mean these two words, american dream? >> guest: everyone has their own interpretation but i suppose if there is a kind of consensus, it is the american dream, that every succeeding generation has a little better life and it has the quantitative and that is what we have, how many houses, cars, jackets, a toys can you have? that it ought not to be the measure the mayor can dream.

in this book i tried to turn the thinking to the quality of life. let's make that the american dream. or tolerance in america or opportunity in the workplace. reforming our education system so everyone has an equal opportunity to move themselves forward. to do something about our political culture so does not seem walled off. baguettes at the american dream in that is the question that comes up in the book time and time may again from the people in main street in power to worry about if their children will have a say have brought what does that mean? have what you have? that could be achieved in a thousand different ways and we should have a continuing pride of who we are.

the culture does become something that was lost. >> guest: it has been lost to some degree. of you just look at the polling now the confidence of our institutions are down to single digits and most think the country is on the wrong track. if they express their anxiety about the future their children will have as they work at the workplace. i once did a series on nbc nightly news about the autoworkers in america. five generations i found the great grandfather who had worked in the original four factory and was beaten up when they tried to organize. his son, the great wave of the 1950's with big

benefits, a good salary, a good retirement, house in michigan with a big fishing boats. a good life. his son was outsource all over the midwest from ohio to indiana to the other outlying plants and when i said what about the 10 year-old? face said computers. we have to get him working on computers. that is the transition. the time of a strong back and a good pair of pants you could find a good job with the manufacturing capital eight -- capital of the world. now we are shuffling money. >> host: do you think the appearance sorry for the next generation to do better than they did in their own times when they were productive?

you feel it is exacerbated? >> guest: during the worst days of the sixties the greatest generation as i call them, often would shake their kids how their kids were behaving but say they are so well educated, they are so smart and travel so easily. i cannot believe the starting salary they get at ibm, allah firm, i used to take the temperature of that generation a lot because i covered the '60s and even though they were not happy, they could see they were the masters of the world. the adm the children could say i will take off a couple of years to travel the world than come back to start my career or start businesses and a very early age. and doing inventive things. the parents were looking at them with a sense of of

another look at the children's the sense of anxiety and looking at them across the dinner table because they are moving back in with them. [laughter] in big numbers. one is economic, they cannot get a job. the second, they said i trust my parents. they are my best friends. i have seen what corporations have done too my dad grandmother. >> host: the parents have done a good job to educate their children? >> guest: educating them for what? that is the issue. i believe a society is best served by a strong liberal arts under current but in a modern economy also have to have specific skill sets to work with high-tech manufacturing. therefore there is a boom going on in america and

community colleges because they are affordable affordable, teaching young people practical skills to take to the workplace. those who emerged as 10% do those with student loans have the data $40,000 and they get out that is a big load to start life. >> what you say reminds me so much of my own father when i went off to university. both parents my father sat me down to say don't forget the word university comes from the word universe and don't forget for one second you may study literature and philosophy back in those days but right across the street is the medical school

go look how they cut up the body go look at what other people do. i was reminded in part by a fabulous quotation you have a of the former president of yale it is fantastic your not expected to know if you are expected to wish to know i would like you to elaborate because i that that was very inspiring. >> the fresh men in coming speech every year i approached him and made it clear i am ripping him off as fast as i can. [laughter] it was wisdom of the best kind he was a very literary figure and he would give

wonderfully wise use speeches to those who were leaving and also say i think that was the baccalaureate speech four ritchie's said do not become hostage to the orthodoxy of others as you leave here. at that point*, we were going through the jerry falwell and pat robertson influence and he found that tyrannical as a political east coast and was threatened for taking it on but said to the students use your mind to reason to think and the independent. but as we have, in my judgment to, the founder of common cause that had his own populist wisdom of how we should conduct ourselves in a civil and social

society. >> host: do feel he said that because in some way the young people were not adventurous enough when they go to school? >> this is a pretty and interests but they find it in the instrumentation. and how much they serve to get the wisdom, i don't know and was fascinated with a new technology. the new-line i use is to say never expected in my lifetime something as transformative as a communication research commerce for ways that we cannot even anticipate online universities are exploding. bill gates spends most of his evening with online

academy this reading great literature. then i say the you are not going to reverse global warming by his team back space. you cannot get rid of poverty by ending delete. i end up by saying it will not do the world good if we have to short circuit the sole. >> you worry of a day where someone will write a song called the tree is just such three. [laughter] >> guest: i also say no text message will ever replace the whispered i love you or holding hands on the first eight. >> then new technology while you see their value the

people are not thinking about their hawks limitations. >> guest: humankind has advanced buy technology that has wisdom in the hands that activate that technology and has fashioned they bring to their lives as well. it is an instrument and a tool we have heads and hearts they should drive the technology park and not the other way around. i also worry that a stanford law senior when i was doing support i was online the young man came over i am partial because i left a lot of tuition there for my daughter. [laughter] but he said you have written a lot about generations what

about the definition and the meeting of french? do we know what that means? will be lose it because it is a fur but we're finding people. that is a very relevant question that ought not to be just because you share the face of a pager just because they know how to find you. >> host: one of the things your book speaks about is the notion that technology in some way also interrupts our thinking. i think this will lead us quite nicely. >> host: you really have to bring discipline. it is way too easy to go on in google to surf and search for something if it has any meeting -- meaning are not. someone said to me, i have a friend was not

technologically advanced and is disabled so he is confined to the library trying to get him to get the high paddy said is that this thing that they are reading the new year times before it arrives? we have not had a dialogue in this country. that does not mean we have to assemble but even within families there has not ben dialogue best use of the technology. i will segue into saying the impact of this technology on journalism but how we get our news there was a time that a lot of your remember well may just got up in the morning to get the morning paper we're went to the newsstand and got home to

watch david brinkley o.r. dumbledore peter or day and in that was it. you were a couch potato. it was delivered by now you have to be proactive consumer to go find the sources of the information not because it comes off of the screen but it manages the credibility and reliability over time. somebody in montana becomes why i'd to say you not believe what i saw on the internet to knight-ridder i say you are right. i will not be the fit. [laughter] there is a yearning to come together but we need in some the former fashion we need others. you say we must return to the fundamental obligation.

it is time to reenlist as it is since. reenlist as it is since. what do you mean? >> has become my mantra. i made sure what we're up against with a history and the immediate legacy of what we inherited. to give you an easy example, i say this were ever i go and you have heard of more than you like, iraq and afghanistan become a lot of people in america paid ed terrible price people physically and otherwise. they represent less than 1% of the american population. they are all volunteers, they come from middle-class and working-class families primarily. very few elite institutions

are upper and come send somebody off in uniform to fight for all of us. they bear the terrible burden. nothing is asked of the rest of us. we don't have to think about it the 32 is not to. we can go through our lives in the war can be going on just as an abstract. that is not just on just in my opinion but is wrong in a democratic society so then the rest of us, i have a title called a chapter local stan needs us we need to reenlist the citizens next year will be very important. i am the empire calling the balls and strikes. but i do know it will be determined and defined by those who get into the arena

and pursue and encourage what they want for america to go forward. i repeated again recently that would every think about the tea party i can only guess in a room like this. [laughter] but they play by the rules. they got angry, organized, and they stayed disciplined and they dominate said dialogue and because of that if you look at the polling data represent the majority of americans. but because they use the instrumentation available available, it is the tale wagging the dog if you want to bring your own passion

1/2 to realists as a citizen. >> rethink the public service is so important? >> coming from the ground up people say why can't we have mandatory public-service? car they will say we should go back to the draft. that will not happen again. that is too politically toxic. the military doesn't like it but there's a reason we cannot elevate the idea so it is more than the sum of its parts. teach for america, americas collor but after being imbedded with troops in afghanistan on a couple of locations, i go into the remote villages where i see the guys i was with goggles, a

hamlet -- comments come a vest, shaking down the pickup trucks to confiscate the weapons. then to say we're here to win your hearts in minds. has to be a better way but we just cannot have a military base of america. i admire the warriors because they're well-trained and know what they're doing and they are frustrated because too much is being asked of them. writing about this why can we have thus diplomatic special services? we ought to have public service academies to make it public private with the johnson & johnson and good john dear fellow with agriculture and caterpillar with construction they spend time getting specialized training then assigned by a combination of government in

at the end of three years of public service than the corporation takes the men for two years. it is not as well formed as about to be because i just tried to kick start the conversation but originally i said the friends of mine is a conservative by he said make it private public. >> you very interested between public and private. >> it is a big trend. mitch daniels is doing a lot of the toll rose turning it over to the corporation negative smaller basis that

it is run more properly and the fish in me and the state you live there is 11,000 state agencies it is designed for political patronage 100 years ago but it is not necessary to have that many state agencies. long island come each has a different water district in set of rules. i would consolidate a lot of it and consolidate education. it is tough because people have attachments in pride and the system that will consolidate and change and reform is the system that is reported by the way it exists now. >> we had on the stage now, glad well, the founder of