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>> and the building has gone through a number of renovations. it was the home of the turner real church over 40 years said now the historic synagogue going on seven years. it is very typical of the type of events that we try to do with great people and interesting topics. jack a. leventhal who lays once made to announce the upcoming events and generally i have done but i have to tell you that i looked at the five next authors that are coming. but we have bill bryson

bryson, justice stephen briar, and diane keaton and so she does get great stuff. [applause] two knightley honored to have dr. teapot show bra was authored numerous books and among many distinctions of fellow of the american college of physicians and and dr. leonard also not a pushover row the teaching at cal tech a renowned physicist including good

drunkard walk which is on "the new york times" best-seller list. the moderator is timothy shriver the ceo of the special olympics fell producer, entrepreneur 80 only lives one street over from a severe very connected. we will have questions from the audience better on index cards and real have somebody pick them up. after tonight you have a short reception downstairs in everything camp for that and it should be an interesting moment because we will see things to night to count on that

conversation so please join me know in welcoming three gentlemen. [applause] good evening. [inaudible] i have been a man named married extinguished environments i have never read as out of my league as i am tonight. [laughter] had many of you read the book? at rihanna's. good. that means that will put me

three times reading it does not make me feel bad press release i have tried it is actually an extraordinary book and i hope you all get copies tonight or in the near future. the title is "war of the worldviews" my only gripe with the book is the word war. i don't think frankly. [laughter] little thing tonight we will have a war. i hope not. i have think we'll have an extraordinarily rich discussion with it to people who have arguably have as good as insight as any to people in the world, you are in for the enormous treat one of my credentials tonight i prayed a lot as a kid there are afraid i would be the shortstop for the boston red sox.

[laughter] that did not come through. i prayed i would win wimbledon that did not happen either. [laughter] i have a lot of experience with frustration and religion. [laughter] i read the book going 600 miles per hour as 6 miles above the earth you cannot help but remember drinking a cup of coffee as most of you have done in an airplane come on top of the issue new cannot help but we reminded every where we go today of the extraordinary and unbelievable achievements of scions. we stand in the role that seems hungry for the spirit fascinated and conflicted about the two. with out any further talking from me i will turn it over to the experts in start by asking a very broad question

which is to say first some of what is good about science and is what is really good about spirituality? [laughter] what is really good about the science? it would be impossible today. we are here because the jet planes we have eliminated a number of epidemics we have the social network that are instantly connecting yes. and to rewire the global grain i could go on and on.

but it enriches the possibilities and the magnificence. [laughter] why? imagine creating a universe instead of taking seven days to do it. [laughter] remember the big bank simultaneously every rare. the big bang was not in the location of space in time because before that there is neither space nor time. because of the cosmic radiation the background radiation that is omnipresent. and now billions of light

years in space and time but with the fraction we would not have universe. we have done a great injustice by squeezing god into the volume of a body in the span of a lifetime to give him a male identity in put him in the ethnic background. faces finance. [laughter] [applause] >> what is good about the

spirituality? in general it is important is spiritual if you are a scientist it is important that to be dead spiritual person but the other question is deepak chopra stritch romney as it relates to the situation treating other people with respect and i like to meditated is very good for you. i recommended. i also agree that i think spirituality, is able to appreciate the human condition and it makes science of the much more awesome. [laughter] there's a great complement her. -- in their.

>> let's start with science. you argue it is rooted in have no preconditions nothing outside of measure ability that you cannot see and it is real and anything. >> but it seems to me that you are being pretty clear most spirituality, if not bias, moves toward that which cannot be proven to be true so therefore should not be accepted. >> i talk about science is the way of understanding the physical world, you should exclude your sensitivity and science is the way to

understand the world as it is without interference. thousands of years ago, people always have the same questions. why is it the way it is? why are there earthquakes? what are the planets all about or the lights in the sky? thousands of years ago people would make up stories a wolf going across the sky and after a while they answer the same questions through logic but then they developed but when you have a theory on science you don't just say your opinion goods you make predictions and to understand based on

that idea is enormous. more than we pay for the thousands of years before that. but it should not be asked to answer all the questions it does not explain the meaning of life or why you feel loved war why human beings are here are if they should be required to do that however ravee of hand not just deepak chopra spirituality but the physical questions that would contradict so i argue why would you believe the creation story in the bible? religions can offer something that when they talk about the physical world they see things that are clearly not right.

the bible says the homosexual should be killed. children to disrespect their parents should be killed. we would have no one left. but to talk about creationism to take the bible literally tend to ignore that. i don't know how they get around that but they take the other parts literally. i don't understand that. they should recognize the bebel-- the bible is updated as a way to look at the universe. >> host: when leonard writes about the mind, the brain, he makes a powerful case that science has unlocked secrets that were beyond anybody's imagination. at the extraordinary

we're suggesting that consciousness, the concept you cannot measure were see or touch what is there. everybody knows it is there but nobody can measure it. but consciousness is talking right now. you could not understand what the mistakes science is making and it does not explain conscience for now.

[laughter] but it here is the basic problem. it is a hard problem. here is a hard problem and imagine the sunset in the notion do see a picture? you can see a red rose in the face of your mother would defy went inside your brain. there is no picture there's electrochemical activity and you have to subject yourself. we can see the correlation between the pitcher and the activity we have no way of explaining how that activity creates the surge of activity of the spirit. that is what life is about.

because love is an experience. lourdes -- so how you find something that is in the of objective observation? >> look in the near. >> that is it. they think validation consciousness, the only experience of consciousness is self awareness. that is it it can no itself.

miss the right now as you listen to me. try this. just turn your attention. [laughter] as you listen to me turn your attention. that awareness that you experience right now is conscience. you said what the heck is that disturbance? i wish i had done to the bathroom before the lecture started. [laughter] and that experience is in your consciousness. this is the scientifically based philosophers says and

other people accept that. it is a problem because we look for consciousness their perk up. >> when deepak chopra talks that way. [laughter] i told you have to work hard line was struck remembering the quote that says the heart has reason that reason does not know and i thought to myself as some level it seems pascal was a great scientist when a the important of his time but says there is more than one way of knowing the way science knows could be complemented by a it entirely different way to know. >> i believe that. it is a way to know yourself but you have to be careful

because sometimes there is the overlap. deepak chopra believes the mind is separate from the brain. of. [laughter] and there is another round he can talk about that everything is connected. [laughter] and i believe the consciousness whatever it is comes from the brain and there is a lot of evidence that it comes from the human brain you can stimulate touch to have people to have thoughts or memories and we are beginning to learn how the brain works so i am not saying we're learning the meaning of life for about ourselves. >> is there a meaning to life in science?

>> science is just issues of the physical world to tell you here is the universe here's the situation here is the puzzle and i will tell you what will happen in one minute later how this operates. it does not address about why is that required if i am an athlete you can say i love that the cooking is very important why doesn't athletics address cooking? it is a separate problem. we get into the difficulties of remake science something it is not. >> he says explicitly in the book that science cannot explain consciousness.

>> a said they are not the same thing please to not interrupt me. no brain can tell you right now in fact, in the previous book low stephen hawking no brain science can tell you the mechanics of the imagination. and today with said geneticist in did narrow scientist at harvard who is a professor who explicitly says today is that the new spot -- caris sans conference where and how is memory storage and after some ham hock said we don't

know. >> but is spirituality just finding was science does not know? >> it is also asking yourself what is the meaning of my existence? why am i here? what is the meaning of death? does god exist? does it care the human mind not be capable of understanding everything but think back thousands of years ago people understand i am saying to us because we

don't understand now we should just not grab onto any explanation. [laughter]

you work in a dark office all day all night with no profit for no success. you do that because you want to know how it works. that is spiritual. that is important to us because scientists don't believe will stop job across the sky. [laughter] >> when do you hear me say that? >> in any case, the other thing is that the added denies consciousness i don't know where that comes from.

there are some the study consciousness but they say where it comes from but in because they cannot explain it does not mean they denying a. what is, is a scientist of our time. just as in the author of the . that is not a scientific attitude. his attitude is scientific even though he accuses me. [laughter] one thain i can say about

leonard is great intellectual integrity. we have spent a lot of time together and i would say he has a lot of integrity but they make statements to actually have an agenda and science should not have an agenda. >> a lot of people would say at first cost is you could make a case that is justifiable the definition of god but people get an uncomfortable with spirituality and religion because they tend to make up rules, ideas come appliance, programs, . >> the spirituality to say it is one thing but then to say this is how you want to live is another. the claims that they make is

not really a verifiable. whether it is better to be peaceful or anxious or call more whether in this situation this or that led to they tend to say this is the right way to go and the others say how do you know, >> religious dogma for religious experience. >> i want to know how you defend the inevitable mead said a new leader has to say things about the world based and your spirituality that inevitably has a conflict. >> to have the self righteous morality. [laughter] i think any imposed morality

but the religious experience of unity consciousness brings about what was platonic your name through truth and goodness and beauty and peace, a social justice, harmony, of love, compassion, and this is the religious experience. some day spontaneous impression of being connected. i think if you understand the religious experience experience, bejeezus has the religious experience then could double said let's institutionalize and they called it religion. [laughter] >> you believe in the double? >> i believe there are

particles that it was not one of contrast. i think of it metaphorically [laughter] >> for those of us referred to in the book whizzing through the 20th century when of the great challenges to people who say god is good is the experience of the holocaust of our confrontation by a evil that nothing could allow. >> could be in polls? guide if good and true, why? >> if you talk about the being as being infinite otherwise by definition it

is not infinite. that is said definition. they want to conform to their idea of how things should be held by should be infinite for all things. is our job to see the destruction eerie impulse but that means everything. >> even the bad? >> it is a state of development we have stages of development with its spirituality.

>> i don't know why she would have. >> look at the words right now, less but a few hundred years ago, we have a and after facing carefully. [laughter] to say very carefully, to be the voice of spirituality

and if they are in uniform resource civilian clothes working than 9-5 job and cigarettes and a coffee break and then go home and go to sleep but they are moving the mouse of a computer to move to faraway places that have killed sometimes a few hundred people this is creativity that it is not the automatic extension of our civilization it would be because of modern capacity linked to primitive spiritual development.

>> host: doesn't have a great advanced thinkers shouldn't you be asking for spiritual guidance daily? >> i think all cotte -- to use this example, the science should be more people. but that was not the issue. but if you want to limit science you could make the argument people whether scientists, engineers, my to make the atom bomb but

people could apply it of course, they're doing brings not for what they know it generally speaking. i don't want to get letters on this. [laughter] but the question is, is a dangerous to have knowledge? once it is their evil people can do evil things. >> but is that uncoupled from their morals? >> knowledge is not a good the wisdom is good. we need wisdom. knowledge can be diabolical it should seek the guidance of those who understand the human spirit for those that we do have the technology and the means today to resurrect the species that are disappearing. we have the technology

today. >> i'd agree. this directive is a phil year of one people of this town and day thien santa says i want to walk -- if you don't like it then vote them out of office the don'ts if that is a bad science because you like the way people use it for you should not say that. but people need to incorporate that. >> and human experience is modern documentation of data

the human experience is everything you do including an two richard down a 10 decimal places and as a matter because then you know, what science is. >> [inaudible] >> exactly. thank you it is trying to avoid the virus. [laughter] >> a couple of questions from the audience. leonard come i can there be ultimate right and wrong? >> [laughter] >> this is a question? i am a scientist not a theologian. >> would you allow it?

but sometimes is that we would be so. >> i know that you are not but. >> scientists get irritated. >> roi that evolution is wrong and the global warming through a new lot non in to come up with results that are under fire oval but use them for both covariance but that is what irritates science to it but for those

that have been written recently, . >> i think everything has a conscience. but you have to put things into context. >> host: in science and religion is often used to justify human superiority of

allegis misheard in a separate of science, religions, with the meaning in value. aren't both guilty making new carry all over creatures? you are talking about colin. >> he campfire doubt the humans have reach some level of consciousness the curiosity allows them to reason in a way that other animals cannot do suggest human beings have a special place to make the comparison is that we could reason a little better. but i don't think science

will feel any strange superiority or other animals because the have a greater work site go. the brain for their behavior and what the different species are. >> by response to the human being is it is the only one that can create to have the lining the -- learning and meaning with the arts and science and civilization. that is the amazing part to but the human species is also the predator that. and i was talking to the evolutionary biologists that says in sex and disappear from our planet life would stop in five years. if you and beings are gonna

five years a plan that would flourish. [laughter] if you look at it from a cosmic perspective, we're on the unsustainable plan it. we are risking our extinction after 14 billion years of creation we can do this in the next 100 years. that is the price that you pay. it is our responsibility to harness our collective creativity and imagination to become the next revolutionary impulse. >> is spirituality you men only? >> in every living form is the next to the spirit and animals are much more innocent than we are much

more pure and unconditioned. >> host: unfortunately the zero good questions but one the really want to know the answer is which episode of "star trek" did you work on the? [laughter] >> now we get to the importance of. >> i worked on the second season i was of a story editor rewriting but we wrote to one episode of ourselves. it was leslie crushers first girlfriend. raison one planet then transported to the home planet and had never seen another of her species, never bend of, and fell in love with leslie.

>> they were tense for a while that to they thought she was a shape shifter. that is my experience. [laughter] >> a couple of questions coming from "the washington post" and the both have to take a swing. the first is for those of us a good faith in time what constructive responses can we make for those statements without scientific training to attack scientific findings? for example,, how do respond two those that hurricanes are the wrath of god? >> just education. >> religious people do this all the time. when this happens my wife said guide just made the coincidence have been. >> no solution other than

education. >> that is not true? >> so we have a choice to do what we want with the natural disasters that causes us to explain like an earthquake and we know humans have a lot to do with it. so you have to examine each case carefully. a lot of the weather disturbances, we are responsible but i would blame god. >> the weather. what makes a more political leader. of science? or of personal face. meaning the. >> can't science less

dramatic but the politicians should certainly have physicist. [laughter] [applause] i think you need a spiritual person it is good for some new juices and science. we can get both. >> understand mooned in bet to make that the emotion is range of 100 million years

of evolution. and it is only 4 million years so they run in many ways. they intuitively know. not only with a politician is saying but what they feel. >> maybe we just get ready to close. i thought it would be worth remembering steve jobs today than his contributions are enormous in many ways. his will no stanford commencement speech he said. >> death is very likely the single best invention of life. it is like changing. so i guess the question s, did life and then death or did the first infant death? >> death makes life

possible. if every part of your body is dying right now you could replace it he would be. >> but i was in my body right now and it will survive in an age others consciousness. that is where we are right now. >> this steve liv on? >> in the minds of those a touchdown but i also agree that the earth will be very

quickly overrun by the old people like us and be no food or. >> is officially revered going to get a. >> i think i started by saying a on the i tried chicago cubs. >> you just have to pray harder. [laughter] but but to take and put some much effort into sarajevo's the fed to have the new typists fitch reality is very different than the kind that we think of with religious institutions.

but also remember the great call of israel. that is where the poor begins which i am sure has happened many times. unity that comes from ancient tradition however crazy, the only thing these to agree on is how much they don't like the catholic church in i am a catholic. [laughter] but i know you like bejeezus [laughter] he says he was a scientist for about thank you for coming. >> we were all

invited to a reception downstairs and i think both are willing to say to continue the conversation so we invite you all for refreshments. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> the rise and fall plan redemption closely arab-american n patriot is the cia. when and how did you serve? >> hi worked in the fbi as a special agent working with them for all the less than five years starting in 2003 i have high profile cases such as the bomb main in riyadh, the assassination in murder of u.s. diplomat in 2002 and i was exposed to working with cia officers overseas that they value the coulter and i transferred from the fbi to the cia in

dispatched immediately in baghdad. obviously that was a successful operation but i do have other cases i work for in the cia. >> host: how long were you there? >> ll's than five years but 10 years total government service. >> the subtitle is the rise, fall, redemption. why in that order? >> my career had skyrocketed. i was assigned cases he was an agent with experience and i was given a lot of permission to accomplish that and a very detailed in the but but after i return from baghdad i was accused falsely i should say, to me at the border of terrorism. eventually, i was exonerated

and i am here today telling my story. >> tell us quickly about that accusation is. >> it involves the terrorist group hezbollah and fbi thought i looked into documents of hezbollah. that obviously was not true. the evidence was labeled secret to and the evidence was not shared with me but the cia conducted an investigation with a federal judge in both exonerated me. >> were you arrested? >> no. i pled guilty because i was threatened. the government said they would deport me to lebanon and announced to the lebanese government i worked with the cia which is a death threat to so i pled guilty to the false charges of 872 detail all of that? >> i sure do. the fbi cases, and i

describe the circumstances around a false accusation and finally the exoneration. >> abroad what men did you have the same situation that of white male would not? >> with my coulter background to get out of the green zone to collect intelligence under which was my weapons i could collect intelligence that others might not have been able to. but i discuss the case is in the book and a hope we get a chance to read it. >> host: did the cia have to look at your but? and i guess i had to submit to. >> host: why did you leave the cia? >> they asked me would you

ever go back to government service? i say i am living proof the justice system marks because the truth is in the end i will serve my country and again at the drop of the time. for me it is the optimistic story by any other country if i was accused of these horrendous charges i would be executed only in america do get the chance to tell your story and know that justice prevails in the end and the truth always comes out. >> this is c-span2 we are talking to the author of this book and compromise. . .

thank you especially for coming out in the briefing the electrical storms, thunderstorms, tornadoes storms and everything else. we appreciate you being here. i was a muscatine with my husband. i'm one of the new owners of politics and prose and on behalf of our fantastic stuff we welcome you all tonight. this is one of about 475 author

vince we do at the store every year, and we believe it is part of our mission as a great independent bookstore to do these evens and bring authors to our communities and communities to them and really to provide not just good books for people to read but also a place and space and forum for public discourse. before we get started let me also see thank scheme for bringing this to the wide audience. we are glad you art. let me give you a few rules of the road in case you haven't been too much or even thank you. our guest will speak and after that she will take questions. if he could go to i guess we only have one microphone here. please state your name as a courtesy and ask your questions. shelia request and about 20 minutes or half hour or so. after that she will sign books. you can come here and she will come in this direction. we also ask you to please let your fares at the end and stack them in the bookshelf the will make life easier for our staff.

also if you have a cell phone on if he wouldn't mind silencing it that would be much appreciated. in introducing the speaker to might, catherine and her book the whole damn deal, let me begin by saying not many people have famous greek -- great uncles but katherine has, chronicling the life and i am not sure how i am supposed to describe ball because in this book is a catalog of things he didn't like to be called. he was a lobbyist, he was the fixer, he wasn't influenced polar, by suspect he would agree and probably take great pleasure being identified to might as one of the truly great and iconic figures of american politics during the last chunk of the 20th century. many of you may know bob

strauss, work for him, work against him, miniet probably been cultural by him and certainly in salted which was a compliment of sorts and no doubt as my friend was telling me earlier have your own stories surfaced throughout his career but whether or not you have ever met here, known him in any capacity at all you will get to know him very well or better by reading this wonderful book, the whole damn deal. through research, interviews with key players including the protagonist coming along with the hard work necessary to write a good book, katherine has captured the man in his time and at least in my case reminded readers how much our political life and political discourse has changed since his heyday and i think some of us who have lived through that and are living

through now kind of shake our heads and say is and there's something missing and may be a lot. so i'm delighted to welcome a first-time author catherine mcgarr breschel will tell us how this biographee came to be about her great a local sink for joining. please help me welcome. [applause] >> thank you. [inaudible] how you write a book about your famous great uncle and remain in the family and also write an accurate book. the way i try to get our build that is doing a lot of research especially at the presidential library of the national archives because as we call him and my

family the ogle bob i knew was very different from the man in the book and people ask me all the time it is what surprised you most about bob that was so surprising and i kept trying to think of great answers and they never came up with one but the thing that surprised me most is how much power he had. he was such a powerful play here in washington in the when i was a child during his heyday i never got to see that and when he's with his family is a different person. it's about the grand children it's not about him and he's not a big personality and with his grandchildren told me they didn't know she won the presidential medal of freedom for until they asked him what that was and he was a little more modest with his own family. i spent my seventh birthday and the ambassador's residence in moscow. this is when george h. w. bush

appointed bob ambassador of the soviet union at the time it was crumbling. bob landed in the middle of the two when it dealt some was yelling people and he went over and came back from christmas time and was ambassador to russia. he's i think i'm the only fellow that has been fired as ambassador. [laughter] so i did love know that uncle bob flew in to the coup. i just knew he got the cake for my seventh birthday. so i began writing this book of the journalism school. i took a book class with friedman and i think that where he yielded the most power and made one of his biggest mark on history was keeping the democratic party together from 1972 to 1976 and that is when the party was torn apart starting in 1968 after the

debacle of the chicago convention and the assassination of rfk and martin luther king and the party was splintering over vietnam and a number of issues and he came and held the party together first as treasurer of the democratic national committee and then as the chairman of the national committee into the democratic party then looked a little bit like the republican party today in that it's very pressured and the extreme wing 72 of the democrats and now the republicans devotee party but what they don't have this a bob strauss figure. they are still factored. so bob really came at a key time me and i started researching his time at the dnc first. the was the first chapter i

wrote. i start to the middle and the election to the chairmanship and the national archives has all of the transcript from the meetings, the executive committee meetings and these are pretty dull reading material but not when bob was determined. he was known around town and around the country because he did become a household name after he was chairman which we cannot say of the current chairman. so i was laughing in the national archive. a frown upon everything but the frown upon laughing. bob was hilarious and so he went about his job of keeping the party together with a sense of humor in the was a very controversial selection when he became chairman. this was after he lost in 72. nixon won every single state of massachusetts and the district

of columbia so you can imagine nixon did that well. how benefit candidate mcgovern turned out to be. and i tell this at the nixon library. the have recordings of the phone calls wixom was making with his staff and one of the aids was calling the president. they were really tracking the chairmanship election very clearly surprisingly closely and they were talking about george mitchell who became the senator from maine that the time he was in his 30s and couldn't compete and chaka said about mitchell he's from maine. he's smart but he isn't a strauss kind of guy that is a strong a powerful rally into the vegetable and when i heard him saying that i was like bob paid

him to say that. [laughter] and then that is how was viewed in he said she would normally be the most effective by the could get but in view of the mcgovern lights a would blow upon them and we are going to win either way and the nixon folks didn't win either way because the watergate scandal broke apart and is out of office and also there was no courage and that is where bald was skilled because he was coming from a more conservative place he had been a democrat from texas if you didn't embrace them exactly she definitely tried to appease the mcgovernites. to make sure they had what they needed in the black caucus and the women's caucus who were trying at that time to grow in expand so he wasn't to

compromiser but a very skilled negotiator making sure everyone has a little bit of with the needed and that was because they said his goal from 1976 was to be able to deliver a party to a candidate. he said i'm not going to deliver a candidate to this party i am delivering a party to the candidate and that is something that isn't going on today in the republican party. they are trying to deliver a candidate to a very divided party. so he didn't know who the nominee would be a 76. he didn't think it was going to be jimmy carter. nobody thought it was going to be jimmy carter. he preferred scoop jackson or pretty much anyone over carter that he looked past that as the chairman of the dnc and he saw it as his mission to keep his electorate to get her and he didn't care who the nominee was or who they stood for and how was a criticism leveled at him for his career he was not an

ideologue but all he cared about was getting a democrat in the white house and he didn't care who it was and it turned out to be jimmy carter and they went on to become great friends. jimmy carter who was don't think it's necessarily known for his sense of humor really grew to love bob and i interviewed him and he said they grew as close as his two brothers in bob would always insult him because that's how you knew bob loved you and he would make fun of them for his pains begin to shorter there's a lot of ways they could make fun of carter and he used all of them. then carter appointed him special trade representative. st are a tiny than currently that is the opposite united states trade representatives they changed the title and ron kirk is u.s. t.r..

bob came in a very weak cabinet position of the cabinet post but he used his underdog status to his advantage in he became known as someone who reached across the aisle and as someone who started his career in washington as the treasurer of the committee that would team surprising. but i think what helped them is the democratic party was so is what he was almost working across the already. in the party that has george wallace who ran for president white supremacists and barbara jordan and the same party yet he was friendly with both of them who can do that can work across the aisle in congress for republicans in carter saw that he saw what he had done as chairman of the dnc and so he also thought he could do that a

broad. the tokyo round of the multinational trade negotiations had been solved for some time. they started in 1973 and there were over 100 countries involved so it seemed like a very daunting task for someone to take but bob was willing to do it because he didn't have a large bureaucracy to work with and it wasn't like that part of commerce where he had a lot of people under him he had a very small staff and he thought there was a good thing and she accumulated power through his friendship and congress with democrats and republicans and if it is especially right now with the recent passage of those three bills last night, the trade bills with colombia and panama law at a south korea everyone was making such a big deal about how they got through so quickly and how bipartisan they were and it's