known about that we didn't know about, came back to haunt us later, and the company got -- this is the things we didn't know about like a huge tax case, circulation problems at news day, and circulation fraud, these came back to haunt us and became -- put us into a troubled condition which made us vulnerable. ...

with the "los angeles times" and has been employed by them since 1995. prior to that, he worked with the pasadena star news and the "san jose mercury news." in 2001 he was awarded the pulitzer prize for his work in the discovery of seven drugs that were erroneously approved by the food and drug of administration. he has been the recipient of many other awards including the national press club award as

well as the george polk award. that was his work on the presidential finance and improper use of funds for presidential campaigns. the work of david wellman has not simply been read and placed on a shelf but in terms of newspapers print and placed in the recycling bin. instead his work has gone on to change public policy. for a simple, in 2005 his work changed its policy of the national institutes of health regarding the payments to government scientists and those drugs coming from manufacturers.

in 2008 he was cited by the scripps howard for his investigative reporting in the anthrax investigation. he was given the award for the top news story in the washington, d.c. area and 2008 and that is the reason we are kirchhoff ha. it's regarding his latest publication his latest book called the mirage man that is about the 2001 anthrax investigation, and i can tell you having lived through that investigation as a former director of the fbi laboratory this work is very authoritative, very complete, very thorough.

i believe one of my favorite passages in the book occurs toward the middle of the book and it talks about the dichotomy between the traditional investigative approach and the scientific approach being conducted in this investigation in another passage he says in contrast to the spectacles that surrounded the searches of stevan hatfield's departments and the pond the scientific work continued methodically and quietly. that passage described very well the approaches to this investigation, and it was the efforts of many scientists both in the fbi laboratory and run the country that i believe led to the solution of this investigation, and the solution

i believe is captured expertly in the book called mirage man so i would like you to help free welcome david wellman to the forensic science institute. [applause] -- thank you david adams. it's an honor to be with you the institute central oklahoma university. pleased to see so many students who are being trained for this important work and i want all of the students to realize that a group of very well prepared progressed scientists are the clear-cut heroes of my book so some of the work was crucial to unraveling the anthrax attacks of 2001 which stands as the most

complex scientific challenge by the fbi. like message is please, we need you will. i would like to highlight the back story of mirage man and look forward to taking all of your questions at the conclusion. this book stands on the shoulder as dr. adams diluted to my work at the "los angeles times" and for those of you that are not reading the l.a. times every day i looked him straight up into the battle behind washington over the pre-existing anthrax vaccine the only approved anthrax vaccine the country has ever had and a new project the next-generation product genetically engineered and invented by scientists at the army complex in research maryland that time is indirectly i also dug into a lawsuit that

stevan had field former by a war for a scientist title against the fbi and justice department related to the treatment in the initial years of the fbi investigation into the thousands of pages of testimony gathered in that litigation in the accidents along with the testimony, it gave me a valuable insight into what happened to this in the station at least in the initial stages of it so i was uniquely positioned by the spring of 2008 and my reporting was propelling the towards the most important of salt mystery lingering from our fall of 2001 trauma and the would be the anthrax attacks. five people developed the anthrax infections from those attacks and were killed by the letters. each death of course remains a

tragedy yet the letters have even more far-reaching effects on our society. legislation called the patriot act has been introduced in congress immediately after september 11th and was controversy all and questioned seriously by the libertarians because it expanded the authority of the law enforcement to spy on our citizens. the chairman of the committee was going to the u.s. senate which is to slow things down to make sure they actually read the bill to see what was in it and then the anthrax litter attack hit and people on those sites and in both houses of congress told the am i research at the plant was game over there was no chance for slowing down that legislation. it lasted through the congress and passed the senate by a vote of 98-1. another cause that was immediately coupled with the anthrax attack was the drive to

cut saddam hussein. ninian southern, quite a few outside were gunning for saddam hussein for a long time are prominent members of the bush and administration and demint rumsfeld deputy secretary paul wolfowitz. the written a letter to president clinton in 1998 saying the only viable policy in that part of the world was to take up saddam hussein forcefully. it was a gift in the lap of these ideologue's and they immediately began intimating that the anthrax attacks were so house sponsored by saddam hussein or al qaeda or perhaps both interests. the third major policy consequence that slowed from the letter attack was something called project by new shield which provided billions for research into the development of new medical product vaccines and countermeasures that may make us safer in the evin to god forbid

of another biological attack but project biofuel was accompanied by the dramatic expansion of laboratories in the country at great expense to the country and this means 11,000 or more scientists and technicians are being brought into this word handling these highly portable lethal pathogens without the concerted control the would give assurance whether these people were trustworthy to be killing these things so these are very big things. buildings in washington were closed. the supreme court were affected. government residential business mail was greatly disrupted so the portal to life had become an instrument of death so i would like you to stand back with me on the yellow tape for the investigation and look at this. these are crimes of enormous

magnitude and their must be essential life-saving lessons that can be learned from these crimes but it was my take away dillinger reporting initially loved it could happen, they couldn't be applied as fundamental facts surrounding the tax themselves continue to be modeled, confused and in some junctures of an analyst said the country deserves to know what happened here and this is why i set out in research to read this book to separate verifiable facts from fiction. i decided the book had to be on the record. i let the chips fall where they may and i should say we all heard of jones science and i'm sad to say that the coverage of the anthrax attacks too often amounted to the drug journalism. at a time when the country most needed journalists to be

scrupulous in a skeptical in their reporting to many accounts to get the face value or amplified claims that were just. so the anthrax attacks of course unfolded ten years ago as we know and they was on this very the ten years ago that an editor at the national enquirer in south florida and robert stephens will strike most with anthrax and extraordinarily rare infections for a human being to have to read behind the scenes good scientific work was underway and it microbiologist doug teacher arranged tour a sample of the spinal fluid to be flown overnight to one of the top geneticists in the country at northern arizona university in flagstaff but by the next morning october 5th the team determined this was no ordinary anthrax. it was the stream material being used extensively in the u.s. by yo defense research program and

most extensively by the u.s. army. bob stephens died that same day and garnered some attention and coverage but the full spectacle didn't burst into public view for another day until october 15th. the letter addressed to tom daschle was open on the fifth floor of the hart building the senate office building in washington power cannot of the envelope as being open the film a couple of in terms it is sucked up into the ventilation system it is difficult now standing here in oklahoma. it rained in washington at that moment. hundreds of people who had worked in the building were thought to be a serious risk of failed anthrax infections.

october 26, 2001 brian ross the chief investigative correspondent of abc news came on the air to offer apparently in the answer and he asserted in his exclusive report on world news tonight this material mailed to senator daschle had been chemically treated with the knife which we knew was a signature of saddam hussein's by a warfare program. you can imagine the impact of that story. similar reports persisted throughout the run-up to the iraq war mack and i just want to make clear it's not just mainstream news accounts purveying this information if you can call it that. there were also articles in the scientific literature on may 5th, 2002 the journal of the american medical association published an article called the

consensus statement on anthrax which reported that the material to senator daschle had been chemically treated. in other words what the - to enhance its dispersal. no footnote was cited for this claim. my research for this book found there was no credible basis for these assertions all of which regrettably fuelled the rush to the war read the book also provides the first biographical portrait of another scientist a fellow named bruce, and to learn about the bruce - five traveled to a small town about 40 miles northeast of cincinnati called lebanon ohio lebanon was and remains a town in mid america that evokes a norman rockwell sketch. bruce was born there in 1946 the young guest of three sons.

his father was a pharmacist and second to immigration prop. and 1983. there were a prominent family and a graduate of princeton university he was well liked and very generous, not much of a businessman. gregarious person. whoever will grow up in the home, mary rockwell's presence, she elixir to determine local dominance over the home. she was mentally and physically kroll. she didn't attack bruce's of their with whatever was in hand. it could be a broom, a fork. well late it was a skillet to the head that mocked him out and she micromanaged bruce whom she saw as her prodigy. this kuwait's.

schoolmates, teachers, other townspeople in lebanon and they told me that mary - it's had left a mark on bruce, a lasting yet hauntingly marked. so from an early age he was a gifted student however essentially isolated. he never could fit in for whatever reasons yet he got older and older and he demanded both attention and approval and those are two things for the life of birds ivins. he saw these and strange kennon ways and manipulative ways. he's held grudges and pursues them almost invariably anonymously in ways that allow him to elude accountability for his misdeeds. he went to the university of cincinnati it would really cast

some of his destiny. he also will have a declined invitation and she forgot bruce never did. the rejection to your membership from that point on he was on a vendetta to harass the torment will leave the institution but other members. this was in full evidence after he received his ph.d. and the university from california. he took to the commit a woman he took a shine to. nancy was an attractive woman, track to the qtr fix student in the someone who clearly had what

you think it would have to have a dynamic career. was a peculiar of normally strange close friendship. this enraged him then proceeded for decades. most notably in the early stages he drove back to chap chapel hid broken to a room where her notebook was kept in a lot of you i don't know if you appreciate. everything was in that lab notebook and know it was gone so she was highly concerned about and started looking around for it low and behold here is an

anonymous note that says if you go to this maalox at this. the authorities find it, the notebook is there. soon thereafter, bruce was leading with a psychiatrist in a washington, d.c. not far from where he was working in maryland and he confided to her. a very deep feelings about nancy and he developed only recently have and to the to abandon the plot to poison and keller. very soon thereafter higher by the army at the biowarfare

research institute. he was hired to break with anthrax to grow wheat to prepare for a test with animals. it's important to note. there was a great concern on community of that time he wasn't pursuing a weapons even though there was a signer of the international treatment in these materials. on will tell you that they work. okay? so at fort dietrich it was a short and seamless fix. he was to the personnel and he was a much better selling interest than most. so that ingratiated him to his bosses and he was a guy who was always sort of eager to do more

through western maryland out to west virginia where he broke into an office and he stole the various items including what for him was a trophy, the book of ritual that included all of the secret codes and postpartum rituals of that surety. he would later acknowledged give me a great sense of power people who were affiliated how good he exhort that power? she took out classified ads and rolling stone and offered to anyone who wanted the book of ritual for top gamma to write to them and he would send a copy. he placed an ad to be in the name of a woman that was a

derivative of the husband of nancy in fact he had rented the mail box. i should also say this wasn't his first burglary. the house in chapel hill like a will years earlier in devotees of new are facts. meanwhile, the top of detective even by the mid-80's was developing a next generation a the judge likely engineered. it gained traction after the persian ralf war of 1991 where if any of you may be aware there is tremendous controversy because the servers personnel inaki waited complained of a wide array of adverse affects. so there was a desire among many in the government to come up with a better.

in surface work in 1997 he put to convey a huge batch of kunar fight sports of mainstream anthrax but not just one variety. this was a anthrax. it was going to support, he thought, the balance of the animal testing that would be needed to bring this next generation anthrax vaccine online and he inventoried those lumber the soon enough however - was voicing -- he's very self aware of his own shortcomings and stuff that he wasn't given the respect and other things.

from july 2002 and i have these important. from july 3 to 7 paranoid delusional thoughts. he worried he was becoming like his mother who he termed an undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. he was talking abut his impulse to do harm or read he couldn't control them worried he would physically harm others and to, quote, terrible things. also in july of 2000 he acknowledged to another behavioral therapist he had come up with a new plot to poison and kill a lab technician at him that had sort of broken his heart by leaving the fort. he was obsessed with this woman did remained such but let stand back for a second if i can ask you to do that. hindsight obviously is 2020 but the more important question is what was known about bruce in

the real time and here's what i found. a number of colleagues knew disturbing things of him. the new he was receiving psychiatric treatment for individual and group therapy and he was taking drugs, ambien cabelas lunesta. he kept a secret to himself and never put on a form when he was getting a booster shot of of tracks vaccine and but by this time he was also taking an antipsychotic. the army allowed him to maintain unsupervised access to the

decrease in tax cut by the united states government and this is highly portable. the index of the letter was less than a gram so a tiny amount of this material can create khanna to the to panic and kill people. one of the biggest surprises came in response in the mail one day in response to a previous information act request filed with the army. i asked for all documentation related to any mental health evaluations yet the response from the army major in english said even i could understand that there's no point during his employment in the army has the surface ever sought to evaluate his mental illness to handle the anthrax. let's fast-forward to the spring of 2001. then next generation and rex vaccine was intact beyond the back burner. those were the exact words to me of the supervising army major

culture model who was over biological and chemical research and the bruce - knew this because he was hearing it firsthand at meetings and to the but the pentagon but he was pushed to transition into something else. flanders research. the oyster cui to the congress and e-mails but what could he do about? she was a good student and of health and crisis how it moves the elected officials and policy he had seen a lot of things happened is amazingly fast times was then delayed forever. in august of 2001, he began logging many hours on week nights and weekends.

these hours continue through mid september, 2001 and picked up again in october. i wanted to ask you to bear with the al-marri coupling portion dates. i send an e-mail to nancy she was shocked she hadn't heard from him in years. she said the care of the blue. and even the with the force into the 21st century action similar to what happened in the first persian war. december 26th and send an e-mail to his lab technician the single and he planned to place in the and he remained obsessed. this is the exact quotes. osama bin laden has just death

to all americans. september 21st, september 26th are important because on that day only the perpetrator knew that the first anthrax lease letters postmarks. so then we have as i said a moment ago the october 15th 2001 letter to senator daschle was open. the fbi roche's that to where? a dangerous pathogens. his immediate wild speculation about iraq in the attack perhaps al qaeda.

there was a breach of protocol for how the chance to stay in subsidy was to be maintained and he was telling bruce anyone who was listening hall spectacular this was. what this amounts to is maximum shock and awe to read that is what they were all about and certainly for bruce - spy this point she was getting so much attention he couldn't have been more content with the attention. let's go back inside momentarily to the investigation. as you might recall. the fbi and postal service examined more than 600 collection boxes in that area to keep one mailbox tested positive for scores.

the anthrax use the letter so with all of this in mind the fbi agent working on her the time a woman named robin how will pose the question why was the one mailbox in prince deutsch jersey selected? so she started doing some searching around and she said some key words into her search. how about princeton, writ across the street from princeton university. he tested deride almost adjacent those hon. powerful moment in this investigation. i mentioned the consequences of the attack including the project by you shield and it turned out very few contract awards by by you she'll was 187.5 upon which

broussard vince helped to lead it never would have been awarded without the amtracs attacks and without the contract -- with the contract, i even had one not only the attention but now he had the approval, the scientific validation that he craves, both things no. senator baker once said in washington he who does not to run his own horn may find its. i would like to share a brief passage about my dhaka was written and posted by carl cannon, washington editor, a politics. the murder of a man should be

required by every law school in this country. it should be the textbook case study of the fbi academy in virginia and the police academy is everywhere. it should be taught in college government class is intended out freshman members of congress when the air - washington and to the staffers assigned to the capitol hill committees and the white house national security. i'm not clear to disagree. since i have it i will ask the first question. senator leahy was one of the intended targets by a letter that was not opened, and she remains to this day quite convinced that bruce - ins wasn't the only one responsible for this attack. in all of your research judge appointed a thing to support his

contention that brew siphons could not have acted alone? >> i did not and i was there september 18th 2008 when senator leahy interrupted the fbi director to say that if bruce was the brooch reader he and senator levy didn't believe they could have done this alone. after the fact to murder. in contrast to that assertion and i asked senator leahy's office for that assertion and they've never done so. to my knowledge senator leahy i should go clean -- of the beginning of this investigation but one of the things in my research or my conversations he was one of three people who

hired bruce. and then there's only one person at fort the turks who has created power in the strain anthrax for shibley on author list fashion and the one microbiologist who has done that did it with the equipment. using the tax with the containment resources he had read their import the turks. you mentioned it was a

possibility this anthrax came from saddam hussein or whoever. was that an issue of somebody or was it misinformation that was given out by an agency or individual? >> i think a combination of both what think you for the question. one of the spectacles that is the constructive in this book haole certain scientist at for the turks who wasn't -- anthrax of course is a bacterium. this individual works, and pilat this month in the attack material under the slaton came to the conclusion it must be chemically treated with bentsen might or perhaps some other materials and next to you know he is in the vehicle with a major general of fair and they come down to several departments

and they go over and met with paul wolfowitz the secretary of the pentagon and then that same night they were called into the white house and briefed to several officials that this material appeared to have been chemically treated with the insight which was regarded as an indicator of signal of saddam hussein's fallujah warfare program. it that conclusion and scientist by the way conceded to me that he was wrong and was opining to use his language and refers to the experts. the fbi laboratory engaged. and escambia performed the most far-reaching analysis of the material that has been done today and conclusively established that material was

not treated within the chemical. >> other questions? >> was there a final piece of evidence that allowed them to catch him or was it just a buildup of things? >> as he said in his introduction of rest some the conventional law enforcement evidence and then cutting edge scientist a lot of cutting its work with so those two things march. the fbi determined the material used in the attacks came from this one that he will on march 10th, 2019. he was to read it was provided

to one other research facility in the west the fbi through the forces was to check out the potential ally of any and all people who have access and the narrow down to a group of slightly more than 40 people who had only access to the expertise to do something with it and bruce who was the only one who didn't have an alibi was the only one working for these extraordinary hours in the run-up to the postmark and the second wave of anthrax postmarked october 9th, so the government informed the attorneys that they were getting very close to indictment and that it possibly could be a death penalty case. that information was communicated directly to bruce - sand was too lightly ninth 2008 he died of a massive overdose of tylenol p.m. to the case regrettably was never brought to

a conclusion in the judicial system it was either a guilty plea or a trial. >> more questions. >> you have said that he had a flask with an approximate. was it ever determined how he got it out of the army's hands easily? i mean to suggest what of the front door with a flask in the anthrax? >> there were no video cameras to monitor the activity through the this was material it was so small it could have been a problem breakoff. there is proof videotaped evidence of how anthrax would have been taken out. i would say two things that i think reflect on that question.

one is that during november of 2001 was telling the fbi said he certainly thought it was possible. the other fascinating thing that happened in my book is that in december of 2001 perhaps november, december 2001 he committed he conducted a clean-up campaign in his office and he went around with bleach and clean things up and had determined that these appeared to be positive anthrax and he was asked by investigators did you go around in the swa of the areas to make sure you got it all and he was asked this in april 2002 by the army investigators and the response

was i can't remember whether i did that. think of the plaza devotee or lacked. this was outside of the biocontainment zone where own none of them. he can't remember if he's terrified to get out of their to reply to that statement is. it's really important and introduced in the trial. the ultimate audit by the investigators to see where loose spores may have been in the spring of 2002 killed scores and one personal office space and the was bruce ivan's office space.

>> [inaudible] >> the question is what physical container with the material have to be put in so hypothetically someone of his skill could have had the envelopes with them and could have loaded them into the letters, sealed them with the tape of the marseille taipei with tape, the man is a ploch bag and walkout. >> forgive me if this is false information but i did read that falling after the united states anthrax letters attack there was

some were there was a letter from dillinger early to leave to -- felmy in chile. is that connected to the attack or is that completely false information? >> there's a lot of letters that charlie our founder of the country other bogus letters. there was no other letter in any other part of the world that contained this to make batch of anthrax either for mainstream anthrax, life anthrax were certainly with spores derived. >> why were they specifically targeted by bruce? >> that is a great question and i should point out that there were four letters the were

recovered. it appears there were a total of five letters. the letter that was sent to the office of the national enquirer was never recovered. then shall inquire had tons of junk mail and they would through without it was almost immediately incinerated in this investigation but there was a plume of anthrax the was mapped from the mailroom at the company's enquirer along the path where the delivered was delivering the mail and came down with anthrax infections and survived. but why those targets clacks bear in mind i think the intent of the anthrax attack was to create shock and awe if. what better way than the prominent tabloid in the country to send it to to the highly placed individuals and the

senate judiciary into tom daschle and why don't we throw in a network news anchor tom brokaw -- the most prominent newspaper right in new york. sue the intent was to create maximum. crisis mission accomplished. do you know what preparations were paid out to him by the fbi? >> i do. i believe to this june 5th, they agreed to settlement his lawsuit her $5.82 million.

i interviewed stevan hatfield at some length for this book and he remains of the belief that in the opportunity that he has for a normal career and science is not over at this point. >> for my own peace of mind has policy of the lab change deval mr. a lack of surveillance and pravachol. it goes back to the lessons learned that could be applied but i don't think have been applied to this point. up front a few regional aspect of the mirage and please read the middleware of the dynamics and the opposition to any new control on how these materials are handled is laid out the jews

have gotten tight. they have video cameras tell. that's not a silver bullet. there is no one measure that gives complete confidence however the entire year almost the entire community has opposed certain mandatory controls, but you defense community once the federal money for these facilities of the research without the control. the opposed baseline psychological screening and the opposed mandatory to person rule so baseless like richard screen they may have kept bruce ivan out of the work therein might he already articulated his one plot before he was even hired by the army. the two-person rule also would have greatly inhibited if quote we presented bruce from doing what he's doing. the split also goes back to how

the narrowed down a list of suspects in the case. there was a research institute as i said earlier in the midwest that had been working at the memorial institute it turns out that there had been a mandatory to person rule for very long time and the scientists who were working were always doing it in tandem and they were rarely the same two who were working at the same time so it really cuts to allow the possibility that there was a rogue insidious insider out there but yet the community, the body of defense community to this day evidently opposes a two-person room and they say would increase costs. there's also a subtext that would infringe upon academic freedom and a lot of this work that's done is in facilities associated with universities and i would say to that working with anthrax, working with these other highly portable pathogens is neither a universal right, a civil right, or a matter of academic freedom is the

privilege and yet our policy makers are able to make these changes. >> of course you are on the other side. [laughter] >> what if there is another bruce ivan of there and they predicted in their home or the lack of what is the fbi or security dillinger to prevent something like that from happening again? >> regrettably the national response to these attacks has exponentially grown. the threat of another insider to do something horrible that creates panic in this country and kills people, so that is a

reality up there. it's also true will enforcement and the fbi is better positioned to investigate these funds to reply wouldn't say they are better positioned on them that the fbi now has a lot more in-house than existed in the fall of 2001. they were employed in 2001 and that has changed dramatically. t know if awe had close relationships with high-profile government officials? >> not to my knowledge. i know that he was a student of what was in the newspapers every day he was latching onto the big story of the day. he wrote scores of letters.

he was very agitated about any number of issues. you have to wonder if he believed it. he wrote one letter to the post that appeared to defend the civil rights of the national association and this provoked a dozen or more angry letters and after this had been led first he came back with another letter and said everybody must have misunderstood by wasn't trillion to defend them then he took a whack at them. sorry that's not a direct response to the question but to my knowledge he didn't have a personal relationship with the elected officials. >> other questions?

from a forensic psychology view if he had a mother like carol brady, with this happened? [laughter] >> who knows. all of us in the room can point to a familiarities directly or through acquaintance with people who have overcome traumatic childhood and so that's why in the book and very careful to say that people lebanon who grew up with him believe that his mother left this indelible harmful mark on him. to really get to that it gets into the nature versus nurture . the unique opportunity to purchase the mirage man in our atrium and have david assignment book for you and the will be

available immediately. would you join me in thinking mr. wellman for coming today. [applause] no on your screen and book tv is kenny thomas and he has written this book did it on what it means to lead the way. a u.s. army veteran of their of black hawk domitian. tell us about your experience with your connection with black

hawk down. >> i was a part of the regimen and we were part of the guys that went in on the mission in 94, 93. it was initially the raid and then everything changed when the first helicopter got shot down and just like that, the course of our lives changed. so what i get from that is if anybody is going to make it out of something you are going to spend the rest of your life thinking of the people left and right that day. i know from the crease of god to tell their stories. >> walk us through that day. >> there are not to increase on nothing. we would be here for hours. estimate your experience. >> my experience was we would have came in on the mission and everybody thought it was great to be a more will think. it was a little bit risky. what we didn't know is we would lose 18 ties and 78 were

wounded. 130 of us went in and you do the math that some of us got wounded and hit. those numbers would have been significantly higher had it not been for the love of the planning of the training but mostly the leadership at every level in i mean from david who was once private who saves everybody all the way to general curtis and his leadership at every level save the sand by the time the morning was a friend, we need to know the story. we were there to help the pilot we waited for the pilot so we get a body of the wreckage and in the morning they come in and put on body armor. they all volunteer and in the morning they dr. away and the rest of us ran out so there again you may get out you were going to spend your life thinking as it is an extraordinary story but as good as you heard the story nobody can tell what about david and

ramallah, that is the way i can because those are my guys. >> when did you leave the rangers? >> in the 90's and picked up my guitar and started doing the music full-time. this is a new world for me. >> why are you writing this now when 2011? >> i get a chance to tell the story to a ton of people with the more people you can reach reflect the more chance we have to make a difference in the leadership and i start doing so many events why haven't you written the story of? so it was norris, you need to write this. we would love to put it out and we were like really? the was that simple. now you have this book where we are in wal-mart coming to know something's happening so it's

been a heck of a ride. >> what is it about music and the guitar? >> i do country music's we have an audience on that side of the world so you have these fan funnels that you are meeting at a convention like this coming for the book and they are all coming to can the thomas and starting to find what the message is which is set in its people, lead the way to beat you are extraordinary. you can do amazing things if you are willing to shoulder the burden. >> who do you play with an country music? anybody? >> thea lee people have been opened up for speed hill and tim mcgraw. you need to give me a spot boe we've been on the road with everybody. you get to see everybody that's been doing it for a while no. kenni thomas is it will limit your a ranger in your new career?