[applause] but that is what is happening. >> where do vice people to put their money today? [laughter] >> where to put your money today? i don't think i am being paid enough. what do i make of the occupier wall street protests? it is fascinating. i am a little surprised it took this long. but in fact,. [applause] if you remember the original agenda, was the complaint against the bailout of wall street but by maneuvers that i don't entirely comprehend it was largely taken over by

the republican party. but the protests of the occupier wall street movement win at first when the populace got together they did not have much of an agenda event had a sense that things had really gone wrong. and people who worked hard were not being rewarded. people were suffering the consequences of other people's sins and missteps. penitentiary premised on the american dream come about became harder and harder to realize. they simply began to protest at first they did not know what they wanted to do except to let people know they were fed up. the for what people in 10 to accomplish except to get the word out except for those

dark who aren't happy. the populace eventually devise an agenda to put forward candidates the highest profile candidate did not win the presidency but the platform that bright and ran on in most ways was accomplished. the united states did not monetize silver but it turned out that new discoveries and did increase the american money-supply in prices began to rise. i would be surprised if a candidate was nominated and ran for president next year but would not be surprised if the various grievances they are gearing became important in the election. >> can i give david just 12th?

and then to start up the movement in new york, we're not intending to do that but the way the book and the movement or mention the same way we have allowed we have our of been completely way from those concerns of day-to-day lives that is what wall street was about. if we can do that then i think that is amazing. [applause] >> bank you for coming. >> i was recommended 212 no

more we could direct you to buy these books but quintessentially the important book but word to a great? one more hand. go by their books. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> and george washington professor, where did marlborough come from. [laughter] >> to go back in time what

is native to america of that was native to the indians tobacco in the distant past several thousand and kcal which is the central ingredient to talk live. so they were central to native americans and europeans had no knowledge of them until they arrived with columbus starting 1492 and went from there. >>host: power they used in the ancient cultures? >> tobacco was used in a multitude of ways. spoke, a cigar, pipe, cigarette types of substances, topically as medicines, snuff through the

nose, and a muzzle whole host of applications varying depending on the region. charts that had a more restricted to me but what is important to remember it was a beverage almost exclusively until the 18th 19th since it -- century progressed in a beverage used like we think of coffee today chocolate had a more restricted domain then tobacco. it was used as the aztec and mayan groups in the broader regions in the americas. and many different concoctions but one of the favorites had cacao come essential ingredient mixed with water than a whole host of spices. chilipepper is that gave it some spicy bite and also

would die that made it read that was central to the experience because it reminded people of blood. the flavorings such as the bella and the other common ones that we don't use any more. another one game is cinnamon clove type of experience. it wasn't just about dead taste but also the texture that was the foam on top consuming special drinking vessels fees were part that montezuma had from the subject that was the physical composition but also incredibly important culturally and chocolate was seen as one of the perks of

the e leaps as a conspicuous status consumption and was important because you could not have a meeting of diplomats or traders without chocolate and often used in a very ceremonial ritual before any type of the sting would be -- feasting would begin there's a ceremonial use of chocolate and tobacco together and the taste of the flowers you hear described. in this very choreographed manner. when the europeans arrived, they actually adopted the costs -- the customer is. so to be quintessential.

also ended case of chocolate or tobacco and out those troubles come at even for instance today we have valentine's day and chocolate as seen as erotic that is sending the europeans learned from those mess of americans. >>host: 1492 columbus discovers the americas. dennis p. bring back tobacco and cacao on the first voyage? >> certainly not cacao or chocolate because the area that he arrived in the caribbean and chocolate was not used. she did run across it when he was off the coast of honduras but there is no evidence he saw a chocolate

itself but he saw the cacao beans in notice how valued they were to the traders. says if they were eyeballs but he came across it seems almost immediately that it was the been offered tobacco leaves as a gift to be a diplomatic along those groups but he sent out men to investigate and the dominican republic and they describe people smoking it. that is the first record of europeans to see it. evidence he himself tried tobacco but afterwards it is not unlikely some of the men might. it is not likely because it was essential to sociability that when explores we're going out we have an image

this image of the invading which was not untrue but for information and, food, diplomatic and military alliances. and the are writing on foia who wants to get something when you are in a vulnerable position, when in rome do as the romans do but when in the caribbean do as the caribbean as do. so then moving into mexico or spain the same thing with chocolate which is part of those rituals but it did say split reaction. on the one hand they were exposed in that situation

but there were also very suspicious as well. it was reminiscent as a the average kraft -- witchcraft also they figured out tobacco and chocolate were not own a imports and an average also sociability but also part of religion. part of the mission of the europeans is to bring their religion to it. it was harry disconcerting to look at the substance as they describe the dollar tree and dynamic almost the schizophrenic reaction on a one fran -- on the one hand they use it on the other hand, we early chroniclers describe tobacco as emblematic of the native americans.

and several decades down the line of centuries, so those origins of have this record to describe as the barbarian behavior so they were reconciling their own habits the way they described earlier on. >>host: when did tobacco catch on in europe? >> >> there is a significant time lag. part of the research i did for the project was to systematically look in trade records if we with the louis idiosyncratic imports. as you would expect as some europeans start to get

habituated, they need their stash when they go back. which securities sailors antony a few returning conquistadores but you don't see that all in the trade records. that is when you have a critical mass of consumers first the doctors and with those three vanguard group's of the early users with those he leaked aristocrats returning merchants and the third group or the sensibilities are clergy that is a significant group to go back and forth. they in particular i found with trading records the jesuit brother to say we have chocolate coming in one

to go to the house and the other to go to our comrades in rome. that is a three vanguard group's. and chocolate. and once they had a foothold in the new world in the population of both sides of the romantic but there read out into the court center come into madrid and other centers in the case of chocolate in one of the differences between taka and tobacco is it was the lead to a phenomenon but it has the lead of also the popular level for those two were integrated.

>> why did you write about chocolate and tobacco? >> one is on the face of it seems to defy our conventional image of the consequences of 1492. not incorrect and of the two hemispheres but yet it here are the two goods going in the other direction so i was interested to explore the western eastward stories biotite am also interested the intersection between culture and nature. that have strong effects on

the nervous system and of the body or mediated through culture. to have cultural rituals but then it is a biological experience as well. been antidepressant threat coming out in a new way like this isotropic revolution when it be interesting to look at another revolution in history with europe that have no experience of stimulus beverages or tobacco and what happened once it got there? chocolate was the first stimulant beverage that preceded the in europe. >>host: was used as a political tool or was there

such a demand for those two products that there were political consequences? >> absolutely just as it was with the native american he leads to become a diplomatic tool verisimilar if you're meeting someone also a good way to bribe an official as well with the foreign dignitaries to give them talk clipper or another way so it is an important item of state revenues of tobacco the single greatest source of revenue could taxiing tobacco has a very ancient history and chocolate in

theory is spain in the 1830's and chocolate doesn't go anywhere but it was tobacco, the state becomes the exclusive purveyor starting 1632. the state officials themselves don't handle it. they outsource and have contracts for the tobacco monopoly that is leased out but the people that have this monopoly have run ins with the inquisition and the whole time. star incarcerated as seen as the secret to do that is a subplot but it was a rich source as well. >>host: what was the cost of tobacco and chocolate it? >> one of the things that

happens with tobacco is it becomes a segmented market seto you can buy expensive tobacco. by the mid century the most desirable weight was as snuff. chewing and smoking and as well but because of the monopoly as you might predict, that is quite above the market rate also creating a contraband there is a lot of black market as well so you could buy an expensive tobacco one of the things that commentators would say about tobacco is how egalitarian it was. by men and women and actually gender neutral.

in the case of chocolate, it is much more expensive and most of the 17th century is restricted two those who were nobility rich traders traders, that kind of professional but by the early 17th or the early 18th century, or by the end of the 17th century, use the evidence that something is accessible for other elements of the population because it is like a kiosk but for those who could not afford hold out of chocolate could once and awhile drink a cup of chocolate so there is evidence. so the per capita consumption of chocolate in spain is quite babies

certainly not the poorest of the four but others who may have access to some chocolate. >> any other use with tobacco? >> absolutely. once it really has a presence in spain, i see the take off period. starting 1610, there is a proliferation of publications and when you see them scratching their heads of what it means some of the publications are written both by medical authorities and theological authority is. and health wise what does that mean? they're utterly aware of the addictive nature of tobacco in talk about how they use the metaphor of slavery to

talk about it. they don't know about cancer but talk about people burned out and black and and using their sense of smell. actually a the mainstream view is to have a note to there's no such thing as the o.k. amount of tobacco but it is about moderation. the we're catching him to where people were in the 17th century. about the beneficial aspects of teeeighteen dark chocolate and they're very aware of it have been goodie facts as well with healthy blood circulation.

we would like to follow up on how many things people already perceived the commentators back then. also the return is that too much chocolate is not a good thing but in moderation it is beneficial. >>host: marcy norton the modern tobacco plant cacao is the name of the treaty seven how similar are today's contemporary plans to the ones you were studying? >> but the connoisseur of chocolate today you may be aware of fine talk live. the divine providence the awareness of the providence and what we see is the short

answer is the most desired cacao among the europeans and there is one that is still being consumed today but then they start to hybrid cacao to make one that is more robust and one cip and start importing cacao then significant quantities they extended cultivation from the traditional region to south america. venezuela. it becomes an important area. and some of those brady's are the ones in a much greater period how did 86 is produced but that variety is that is more prevalent leave

produced but most have some relationship to the varieties that were consumed back in the moment the encounter with of native american. the europeans first encounter an average 80 there is the second to variety at the time of the europeans arrival. and to bring them back to north america and so it supplants so it is more prevalent on the eastern seaboard. and that spreads from the

caribbean in beyond it. >>host: we have been talking with marcy norton history professor at george washington university and the author of this book "sacred gifts, profane pleasures" a history of tobacco and chocolate in the atlantic world" >> ien had a special collections for the lsu library. today we're were the special collections is house. and has a variety of different parts. today i will talk about and

i know from the lower mississippi valley collection that is a a premier collection. it documents the documents the culture of lower mississippi valley from colonial area era through present-day it has journal's 10 newspapers as well as unpublished manuscripts like this volume that is one of our jules this ok was kept by leonard claiborne appointed by jefferson to receive louisiana from the french for the louisiana purchase. it is amazing he was only 28 at the time and was governor within the mississippi territory. this is the correspondence he said back to madison and other officials to let them know how it was going here in louisiana after the changeover.

not always smoothly. the thing to think about it is back then october, at teenine 4325 obviously they did not have word-processing machines so if they wanted to keep a copy, they had to have a clerk copy it for them. this is the copy they kept of what they sent forward to washington as well as correspondence for here in louisiana. it was an interesting time. it was quite uncertain and there was a lot of debate and doubt as to whether louisiana would actually stay part of the united states. the french felt they had a claim and the spanish felt they have a claim in that made it hard for claiborne to establish the goven