things is for my family papers of the general basically no attention between the jews and arabs that point. but the big problem was stopping australian soldiers going into brussels in jerusalem and to give clear instructions this is all in the archives which for many at that time and major jeffrey of montefiore or haul out the australian bodies and put them in chuckles in prison for the night and his messages to the field marshal were actually all the same about 20 of them identical and what they see is jerusalem inquired

rampant and it was quite amusing to find that. by the way one of the interesting things about the montefiore connection was he adopted the family and i grew up that's why i went there as a child so for those of us in the family when it became a huge boar especially for the members of the family and the older members of the family, they would wear top hats and things like that. they wouldn't believe in america. there were very victorian. but any way they would call on about how wonderful moses montefiore was, he was the family st. we felt like all great victorians he had a secret life. the next day his nephew went to

his house and burned all his papers. always a bad sign. so the reason we discover many rumors about his life he was very happily married but was also clearly a typical victorian and we've discovered the age of he fathered a child so this is shocked to the altar members who are 80, 90, almost finished them off. [laughter] but i have to say that for the younger members of family biggar lot more interested in montefiore work. that's how it became another great challenge coming from this

background was to write else i said and unbiased history of jerusalem. there are so much to say about it but one of the first things is that every religion has its methodology which if you are a believer you believe is of so with a true. if you are not that some ridiculous. and so, for jews there's abraham, david, solomon who rises on a first day from arabia when a horse with wings and a human face took montefiore to jerusalem. there's no point in writing the history if you don't respect religion and without respecting it, the history is actually meaningless anyway.

so when i start to write a kind of policy for this am i policy was not to fight any religious beliefs but to embrace its. you may well want to know the facts. you'll find them in this book as far as we know in an unbiased way. when a started to write it uses my father's to the kuwaitis and said to me if you say king david doesn't exist i will disown you. just what somebody from every religion, the interesting thing about the nature and you'll see it at the book there's one just jews and palestinians. that's one of the tragedies. this book is about multiple identities. in one sense you can read it as

the greatest story ever told of a great conquerors and also read how the holiness' develops, how the identity develops, and higher of controlled power and its these things of small. so in jerusalem identity is a blur. in 1970 when they asked the mayor but they didn't call them palestinians yet and asked them if you read a bit of murphy's in the 40's he talks about postilion all the way through the book. he means jews, the jewish community of palestine so that's quite interesting. but anyway, the point is the state families which written a lot about in the book and he

unveils his nationality and says i'm quite clear about my nationality. i have three nationalities. first jerusalem, second by an arab and third to -- many people would argue in similar ways, similar complexity and that is what this book is about. it's respecting the complex identities that are different in the national these. you may not know for example but the armenian community in jerusalem speaks its own dialect which is specially and has many words that are special, unique to jerusalem. and so, at one point the serbians had a share at the judgment so this is a jury complicated -- if you took to the palestinians in jerusalem many of them are descendants from turks and the families because i've written about -- it

would become a great dinner with the arab families and i've taken trouble to go to every one of these families and find who keeps the family history in front of the family history of these men. that's something for each. so it is a family started doing it that way. it's still open every day. the have done that at least all families have family mix and that brings me back to my point. in jerusalem the mix was as powerful as the facts. you have to write both. and that's one of the peculiar characteristics as well is that many of the myths are in fact historical the wrong body what people. there are many examples of this

the biggest one is almost certainly theodore roosevelt along with millions of christian pilgrims it's almost certain historically the wrong route for jesus. but it also applies to the different sites for religion which for example the focus of great reverence no on the whole political question on the palestinian neighbor and the jews are trolleying to build new settlements, so long and so forth. this is almost the entire noblewoman in the time of the trust that all if they tell them that. they don't want to know and i say they are wrong? no. it's all reference to them. but if you want to know the historical story it is here and so on. there are many sides are religious. people arrive in jerusalem just about all of them fought all the

buildings they saw were built by king dador king solomon. and in fact virtually all of the big buildings to use your built by. the great. people say that jerusalem is really old. 300 years in the middle ages there were no laws in jerusalem. they were overwhelmingly built by the lack deutsch said. they are not very ancient at all, the contemporary of england. there are no older than england which is interesting. of course the walls around the temple itself are old and very ancient. but a great variety, there's a great variety. at jerusalem itself is talked about all the difficulties as the holy city and so on and so forth. there have been times when all of the great religions have almost forgotten jerusalem. the jews i would save least. i would say that ever since 1780

when it was destroyed the jews have always revealed they want to return and lived that whenever they could and that wasn't always possible. for hundreds of years they were paying their debt from jerusalem. but by that time for simple the temple was a ruin and jews were banned from there. they kept it to prove the truth of jesus'' prophecy that jerusalem wouldn't rebuild and the temple would be destroyed. ..

in 1900, in 1800 the turn-of-the-century around 1800 when israeli and people, jerusalem had 1000 even within the wars it was overgrown so there have been times, hasn't been like it is today and it was really the approach of the poorly and in 1798, 1799. he invaded egypt and advanced up the coast. he hoped to restore it to the jews. he was it early zionist impact but he he never miniatures alone. that was the beginning of the return to jerusalem and which has culminated really in jerusalem central to geopolitics and so on. so, that is how i approach the book. what time did i start talking? anyone know?

7:30 show i should stop in the second. and we can take questions if you would like. but, the challenge has been given my background, given the nature of jerusalem, given the way that it is so fought over and live the way, the two great distractions of jerusalem in 586 b.c. and the babylonians and with titus, these two great distractions were probably the most important things and making jerusalem what it is today, making it the holy city. the destruction intensified the holiness of the place. in a way jerusalem's holiness is indestructible and one of my hopes of this book is that by showing the history of all the people of jerusalem and by telling it as fairly as i can, knew that i wouldn't be popular with everybody and in fact they

knew that if i was popular, too popular with one side of the other i would have failed in my task. at first that was difficult for me to take and then i realized i had to embrace it. the first british governor of jerusalem, when he came to jerusalem he was quite popular with both sides in 1918 but then he became very unpopular with both sides, so he went to his prime minister david lloyd george and he said to him, he said to him the jews are complaining. what should i do? lloyd george quiken a flash that if either side stops complaining i will fire you. so i followed a very similar, i followed a sort of similar attitude with this book. and it's been very challenging. the early biblical period and obviously the last 50 years, i don't quite finished in 67.

67 was the last change of possession of church lumps so that is the climax at the end of the book but it actually goes right up as you said to obama, to the arab spring, to the present time and of course the later bit is the most controversial so when i was writing i decided that i really need to get both tell us dinning authority people to read it and the israeli government to read it and i got both people to read these sections. they knew it would be published in many languages so they took trouble with it and they each gave me memoranda send corrections and so on. course both only corrected the things, they didn't mind things that were wrong. they just minded the things that were against their interest so after a while i decided i had to make my own judgments on these matters which i did. and so this book is the result. now, we don't know what is going to happen with air spring. we don't know what is going to happen with the palestinian bid for statehood at the united

nations. all the great calla facts of the world which are so founded on jerusalem which is so based on our love of jerusalem and our fascination with jerusalem which is the holy city, universal city, all of these things are unknown and it would be meant to predict. no one predicted the arab spring for example. i can see a jerusalem in 50 years that is kind of more or less shared with a peace deal. it's almost negotiated. both sides know what the terms would be under rabin, under olmert and under barak. both sides of course foster myths about the other side. the israelis for example claim, often claimed the palestinians

were invented very late and so on and so forth but the jews came first and therefore the palestinians residency for 1500 years is worthless and so on. the palestinians too heather sins. they often claim that the jewish love of jerusalem was only invented in the 1890s and the wall became wholly late in the 17th century, the 16th century and so on. so all of these, both sides, foster lies about the other. now you could make peace with m-16s. you can make peace with legal documents. you can make peace in the u.n. security council's but none of these pieces will hold until both sides recognize and respect somehow the heritage, the story, the truth of the other and in a very small way this book contributes to that i will be happy.

as i said everything is up in the air. i could also see jerusalem which is destroyed which is plumb up by some fanatic -- blown up by some fanatic. if that happens to jerusalem then you would become holier but of course it would break the hearts of the world. the one that thing we know is ultimately the day of judgment come the second coming, jesus christ will return to jerusalem. so the only thing we know for sure is that whatever else happens, it will end in jerusalem. thank you very much. [applause] >> lets do about 10 minutes of q&a with this microphone here. >> yeah, i would like to comment about king david and,.

[inaudible] primitive dwellings and all of that described in the holy books could not have existed at that time. >> this is the key question that my father was very concerned with and it's a very good question. now, just to take things step-by-step the bible of course is you know, if you believe it,, fewer fundamentalist believer in the bible is god's word you don't need to listen to this, but if you're interested in what really happened, then the bible, the bible is a source like any other historical source like any other like every source you have to ask who wrote it and when they wrote it and why they wrote it. because we don't know the answer to all that in the bible. so we have to ask what we do know about david. the thing about david, it's like

everything in jerusalem but especially david and solomon. this has become an obsessional question for both sides, and the politics has forced both sides archaeologists and historians into extreme positions. the palestinians believed anti-israeli and anti-zionist aleve they base that on king david and so on so this is why it's such a fraught subject and viciously debated in israel among the israeli archaeologists for a start. but what do we actually know essentially? well, we know that david did exist to cause an inscription found in 18 -- 1993 by israeli -- refers to israel as the house come the kingdom of israel, the kingdom of the

jewish is the house of david and this is 12150 years ago so after david's death. so we know that david was a historical character, but that is pretty much all we know. now, in the archaeology, the trouble with david, in most archaeology, what you don't find isn't held against you. you simply use what you do did you find it you understand that archaeology is really like shining a flashlight or striking a match thousands of years ago and in that moment you can sometimes find something that for some reason was left behind. so, in the city of david, the original city of jerusalem there is very little. there maybe may be one or two buildings better in exactly the david period but we also know from new finds in the city of david that there were huge canaanite structures. there was a big canaanite

stronghold 800 years before david. since it survived until today -- so we know there was a large structure there. jerusalem was much smaller than the biblical accounts suggest and it was probably just a stronghold. david's kingdom was probably less a formal kingdom, more likely a confederation of tribes. it doesn't mean it didn't exist. we know it existed. it's interesting for example the maccabean kingdom which we know existed a thousand years later was also left virtually no archaeological remnants. it's such an obsessional fascination with whether it exists with what hasn't been found. what we do know is that his there is virtually no evidence that solomon existed. there is nothing inscribed with his name. again what we do know within 30 or 40 years with a the probable

death of solomon there was a jewish temple on the site that is now the temple mount. we know because egyptian king canaan demanded the goal for the temple. we know there was a jewish kingdom there and we know there was a jewish city so i am less excited about whether king david existed or not been many people are because we know within 50 years of him, all the conditions that are so important existed, did exist. but i'm not one of these people who believes that just because there was a jewish kingdom and a thousand b.c. that this has any political, this in any way diminishes the rights for example of the palestinians who have been, or the arabs who have been in jerusalem since 638 but it is a fascinating question nonetheless. so that was a long answer. >> i have two questions, one

related to the other end something that you mentioned. you know stalin was a of alien and where he picked on people. the question is, why were the religions, if i was selling religion when i want to go to one place and point out the weaknesses of the religions that are there are rather than going somewhere else in africa or whatever? i think it was intentional that they focused on one place to build themselves up and get the attention. dari: of alien. >> i know exactly what you are saying. what you are saying is what was fascinating about jerusalem is that each religion, each new revelation that took control of jerusalem, they didn't say we are going to start from scratch. no way. the holiness in jerusalem is a tradition and it's infectious so what they each did, the jews

almost certainly built the first temple on the canaanite shrine. the christians, jesus very consciously fulfill the jewish scriptures and was a practicing and based much of his legitimacy on his study and his this fulfillment of these prophecies, so the jewish scripture rule was vital to christianity and so are the jewish sites and similarly, we don't know if he was literate or not but he certainly was very very familiar with both a the christian and the jewish scriptures on the prophets. for the muslims, king david is the profit david and so on, so moses is not a moussa. so they consciously dealt on the jewish tradition and the christian tradition.

what was he doing there? he was giving legitimacy to his religion but also he was adapting, adopting, commandeering the holiness that was already there are and that's what -- is what all the religions have done and that is why there are three religions in jerusalem. >> i want to come in and what you said. i recently read there is a lot of anti-semitism in great britain and they wouldn't put a in the parliament. you are talking about they wanted they choose do you know, get ahold of israel but yet, palestine, but yet there was his antagonism towards the jews. >> the british answer to the jews who like in many countries was ambiguous but in fact, this temporaryism which is what i was describing with evangelists which is similar to christian evangelism today in america, was

very pro-jewish. of course it was social anti-semitism as it was in america too but that was limited in a very big way. may surprise many americans. if the look of the story story of my ancestor, an italian immigrant, penniless in england, died with a country estate, friends with queen victoria and many aristocrats in many crowned heads in europe and many other banking families. they were then very wealthy and so that was easy to accept but nonetheless, it does define some of the preconceptions does it not about victoria in england and the english caste system? >> we will do the last two. >> two quick questions.

outside of the last pages of your book in the last chapters of your book, could you give me one, maximum two, books that are objective histories of israel palestine and the second question, did lawrence darrelle affect your thinking or your writings? >> well, everyone loves lawrence darrelle. of course, i love his stuff and i think he is a great man. do you like him? he came to me as you were speaking on his image and his alexandria bubble. his wonderful book and you know jerusalem, salonika, these were the great sort of cities full of many nationalities and nationalism has destroyed all of that. what was the other question? the one maximum to objective books on the palestine israeli conflict.

>> it's actually hard to find them. i'm trying to think. most of the ones i can think of i don't want to name because i regard them as unequal. i'm not saying that to promote my book. i just want to answer the question truthfully and i can't quite. i think a lot of looks that i loved as a child were very pro-zionist i can now see and so i can't answer but a lot of the modern books written are either neocon which often i regard as totally unrealistic or they are kind of essentially very anti-israeli, the opposite. that is why i write -- listen you will judge when you read the book how i've done on this and nothing is perfect. but it is actually very hard to find, very hard to find a sort of object if you on this. and so, so i can't answer your question. is that the last question. one more question. fire way.

yeah go on. >> i have a long history of loving your work and very much admire you as a thinker, is a writer and in the documentary on catherine the great. the work i am doing, and i want to show you how i honor you and what i think a few. i am doing a novel on the friendship between catherine the great and -- you with a man who could make me think in your book on stalin, what a handsome man that stalin was. so it gave me the idea that i was going to have stalin undergo a transformation, helped out by catherine the great. the question i have now and i haven't delved into your biography yet, but i have

catherine trying to fuse pantheon who says i don't know why people have this idea of me and i don't know why i have gone down in history that way and catherine is soothing him and cuddling him and in him and saying, don't worry my darling, i have asked simon sebag montefiore to write a biography of you and i know he will tell the truth. [laughter] now i have to go home tonight and look. shall i be scared? shall i drink before go home? >> i think you should definitely have a glass of wine. [laughter] that is the nicest question i have ever had. thank you very much. before we finish, i got an e-mail today, that won't quite answer your question but i love your question. it reminds me of something. a history teacher in provincial

england who wrote to me to say he had put up the picture of young starlet in a large poster over his desk and it had become first of all one young girl and then many young girls and all the girls in the school have been coming to see it as a pilgrimage and he was very a long because they all found him so handsome. and yours is the book. he wrote to me to say, what should i do? dear simon, what should i do about this problem? all the girls in the school are in love with -- so actually i would say thank you very much for that lovely question. i'm very flattered and honored and i can't wait to read your novel. >> depending on what you write, she will -- it in some way. >> ladies and gentlemen thank you very much for having me. [applause]

>> that sparked a broader revolutionary movement that rocked this whole system back on its heels. they remember that, and they also realize that there were conditions in inner cities across this country that are anything worse than those in the 1960s. so they are moving to head off

any potential rising up by trying to trap as many of our youth up in the criminal justice system as they can. in a certain sense, they are carrying out a counterinsurgency in advance of the insurgency. aimed at heading this insurgencies off. see, so this is what we're up against, and what it comes down to is that there ain't no way you're going to do with this, short of making revolution in getting rid of the system once and for all. that's what it comes down to, sisters and brothers. that's what we're up against and that's why we have to move on it. [applause] >> see, i know a lot of people felt like when they elected barack obama, that they were doing something to do with all of this. what black people were up against will be dealt with, immigrants are going to get a decent shake out of this, the wars would be stop. people for all that would go down. but they were wrong.

obama was stepping up to be the main representative, the commander-in-chief of u.s. global empire. he said he was the best man to keep it in check, keep it in effect and to keep working. and see if he's going to represent the u.s. global empire and everything that does in this country and around the world, he cannot represent the interests and the needs of the masses of oppressed people here and around the world. [applause] that's an important -- see, and that's an important lesson that people have to get, and then based upon getting it needs to act on it. because see, here's what it comes down to, sisters and brothers. if you get nothing else out of else out of what i say tonight i want you to get this. yes, the world is at war, a series of never ending horse. but things don't have to be this way. through revolution, communist

revolution we could change all l this but we did in all these whores, all this bertelli that i've been talking about here and around the world. that's a fact. we could do that. there's more to it though. these kind of revolutions have been made before. in china and in the soviet union before that. and they achieved many great things. both of these revolutions have been overgrown, and now capitalism is back in effect in those societies. but the leader of the rebels to communist party who has done a deep study of the previous revolutionary experience of the previous revolutionary societies, after doing that he has brought forward a new understanding of how to make revolution come and to those, to that revolution to bring into being a socialist society that is both viable and is in transition to a world where exploitation and oppression has

been ended once and for all, a classes -- class was communist were. when i say this, for some people it's like did i hear that right? is that meant that they're talking about communist revolution? and saying it's a good thing? yes, i am. [applause] a little look, before you say he must be crazy, doesn't he know that communism failed, that it was a disaster everywhere it was dried? well, i would ask you to do this. consider what's the source of that conventional wisdom that communism has failed, and that it's the same people who don't tell you the truth about history, about the current state of society here in this country and around the world. and don't tell you about how it

got that way. those are the people who are telling you communism has failed, and they're lying to you about that, too, sisters and brothers. look, i want to get into what could be accomplished through revolution and i want to get into the concrete on but i don't have, it's a big topic. i don't have time to go through all of it. so i'm going to do is i'm going to take just one part of the. i'm going to talk about education, how education has handled in the society and how it could be handled totally different in a revolutionary society. now, for the rest of this i'm going to suggest the website. website called this is communism.org. and it will get you into the history of congress revolution, how it is dealt with things come both what have been its issues but also what's been its shortcomings because that's an important part of what he has done to bring for this new understanding.

he has to look at where the previous revolutions went wrong, where they made errors and why they made errors and why they made heirs. and based upon that has come forward a new understanding. let's talk about education. education should be about teaching people how to think critically. giving them the ability to understand reality and to act to change it. and also should be about instilling in the use values in an orientation that will inspire them to want to devote their lives to understanding reality and trying to change it. you look at education in the society and it is in the exact opposite direction. in this society, education is crafted and twisted to serve the dictates of capitals system. it is used to justify and to perpetuate the oppressive and exploitation of relations in society, and to keep in effect a

dominating positions of those already wealthy in power. now, let me break down how some of this comes, and the place i have to start is the content because here's the first thing about it. education in the society doesn't give people the true history of the world. how it developed, what it's like today, how it got that way. if you don't learn that, let me just give you an example because i was talking with somebody about the earthquake that happened in haiti about two years ago. now, when you looked on tv about that useful both the devastation of the earthquake but also the grinding intense poverty that haitian people faced. one thing you never learned in the society is why is haiti for. the unspoken implication is, the haitian support. then there are racial implications that that is, all those black people, no wonder they can't do nothing right. that's what you get on that.

but what you don't get is that when haiti made its revolution more than 200 years ago, and chased france and masters out of france take. [applause] that was a very important revolution. but here's what happened. right after that revolution, france put a stranglehold on haiti through a naval blockade. and they said until you paid reparations to france, you going to be blockade and we're going to strangle your aegon. now, why should haiti have paid reparations to france? well, because they had deprived france of their human property. the enslaved africans of haiti who rose up and made revolution. and they had deprived france of the wealth that it had gotten from stealing the labor of those enslaved africans in haiti because haiti was responsible

for 80% of the wealth of the worldwide french empire at the point before the revolution. they squeezed haiti, force them to pay those reparations but it was meant of dollars at that point, which would be billions and trillions of dollars today. that put haiti's economy in debt, a debt it never got out. but they never tell you that. they don't tell you that thomas jefferson was way behind the u.s. helping france to strangle the revolution in haiti. that's reality but it's reality you don't learn. we can go beyond that because the other things you don't learn about is the true significance of the twin original sins in the development of this country. and i can bar a little bit of terminology -- i can borrow from other sources on the. what do i mean by these twin original sins? i'm talking about the genocide is carried out against the

native people and the enslavement of africans here. [applause] okay. now, they have put that into the history. back when i was young, it's hard to find that in history, but they put the fact that those things happen in history report, but you don't get the true significance of the. you don't find out that those twin original sins provide the foundation for all the wealth and power in this country. they don't bring that to you. and then here's one other telling exposure about education in this country. the simple basic scientific fact of evolution is something that it is very controversial to teach people in this society. that's a telling exposure. now, in some elite schools there is encouragement for people to think and nonconformist ways, but even that is limited to things that don't challenge directly the fundamental

interest of the capitalist rulers of this country. and when you come to education for those on the bottom of society, it seemed even more cruel insult to those years. i mean, you've got millions of people in the inner cities in this country who go to schools were more like prisons. every morning when they go into the school that got to go through a metal detector. and once they go through that metal detector they see the halls of their school controlled by actual police. and acting up in class in the schools, back in my day we used to do that, you know, and they would send us to detention for an hour, they would give us a note to take him to our parents. this never happens -- happen to me of course but i so happen to other people that's what i can tell you about it. but in school today acting up in class could did you beat down and arrested by these cops who are patrolled the school. this is what comes down to. and despite the intention, the good intentions of many of the

teachers come these goals are set up to fail our youth, to push them out the door onto the streets. and to send them out with a message that it's their own damn fault. that there in those situations. this is what education comes down to in this society. now, education could be totally different and evolutionary society, and here's how i want to go at this. we in the revolution economy's party have produce a draft constitution for the new socialist republic and in north america. this is a document that talks about what society would be like the day after the revolution. okay, we want to put this out one, because want people to know is i don't have to the ordinances way. but to come we want to go record for what counts as i would bring into being and how it would function now it would work so

that people could look at what we're doing and saying that stuff you're doing right now don't seem in line with a constitution you put up. because we will people to engage us over that stuff. that's a part of how we feel that we can stay on the road what we're trying to to pull off. now, i can give you everything and i really encourage people to check this out, but i want to read some excerpts on this they'll talk about how we will approach this education. one, here's one of them, education while valuing and giving expression to the circumstances and atmosphere that are favorable and conducive to learning and intellectual pursuit shall avoid and combat an ivory tower environment and mentality. education at all levels of shock and my intellectual pursuits with various kinds of physical labor, as part of working to transform the relation between intellectual and physical work so that this bill longer constitutes the basis for social antagonism.

another excerpt, one of the most important purposes of the education system in the new socialist republic in north america is to enable students and the people broadly to learn deeply about the reality of in the basis for the operation of whole peoples, and the domination and oppression of women in the former imperialist u.s.a., and throughout the world. and just one more point i wanted to read. the educational system in a new socialist republic in north america must enable people to pursue the truth wherever it leads, with a spirit of critical thinking and scientific curiosity, and an endless which continually learn about the world and be better able to contribute to changing it in accordance with the fundamental interests of humanity. see, now, and these aren't just some good ideas about how to education different.

this is based upon the actual difference that a socialist society has in relation to a capitalist society in a socialist society, people are working together in common, for the common good. they are trying to transform reality, trying to deal with contradictions left over from capitalism. they're not trying to protect private property and private holdings and wealth and power for a minority of people. to do this you're going to need people to consciously and voluntarily change the world and themselves in the process. so you need an educational system that teaches people to think critically so that they can understand reality as deep as possible. and on that basis, contribute to transforming it. that's why a socialist society, a revolutionary society could go at this question of education differently than a capitalist society. the other point i wanted to make

is that the framework in which the approach to education but everything that is in this constitution comes from the work that bob avakian has done to re- envision revolution and communism and out to bring it about. and that's an important thing that i want to get into here with people. now, i've been talking about revolution, and i feel like i need to get to what is revolution. and to me the best way to do it, i want to read a short quote from avakian on that, again from basic. it's important first to make clear what in basic terms we mean when you see the goal is revolution and in particular the communist revolution. revolution means nothing less than defeat and despair of existence of state fish in a particular is institutions of organized violence and repression including its armed

forces, police, courts, prisons, bureaucracy and administrative power. and replacement of those reactionary institutions of concentrations of reactionary violence with revolutionary organs of political power and other revolution institutions and governmental structures whose basis has been late to the whole process of building the movement of revolution, and then carrying out the seizure of power when the conditions for that have been brought in to being which in a country like the u.s. requires a qualitative change in the objective situation, resulting in a keep going crisis in society and the emergence of the revolutionary people in the millions and millions of the leadership of the revolutionary communist vanguard and are conscious of the need for revolutionary change and determine to fight. now, we are not at that point yet. but how would you get from where we are now to the point where

such a revolution is possible, were such a revolution could be made? and this is something that we've addressed, and we've got a strategy statement that i also encourage people to check out. it's one of the essays in the book, basics, that is talking about before. this statement says some things about why revolution could be possible in a society like this, but then it also poses what is it that people who see the need for revolution need to be doing right now. and then it goes on to answer that question i sang fighting the power and transform the people for revolution is a big part of the answer. now, what this means is building resistant in a way that enables people to raise their heads. to get a better sense of what they're up against, who the enemy is but also due to potential friends and allies are and what kind of struggle needs to be waged in order to win. see, this also has a lot of

implications today in the midst of occupied everywhere spreading across the country. because you saw in this people standing up and resisting some of the economic deep right nation that is being brought down on the great majority of people here, but as it develops you also saw people connecting with other struggles, like earlier this week there was a conference in arizona where some reactionary forces were getting together to plot even further attacks on the immigration movement. and what the occupying forces in arizona did it is a laid siege to this conference. unit, and the police were there trying to defend these people trying to come up with more cool ways to, at immigrants. but the occupied people were like we ain't stepping back, because this is part of what we've got to do with. i'm going to talk and a little bit about the relationship

between occupy wall street and the movement to stop in new york. but again, people sing links between the different struggles, connecting the dots as people have said. this is an important part of what you can accomplish through fighting the power and transform the people for revolution. there's another thing that it talks about in this strategy for revolution peace that needs to be done by people who see the need for revolution. and that is unique to spread revolution everywhere and you need to spread the pathbreaking leadership work and vision of bob avakian, the leader of the revolutionary communist party. i only talked about the induce synthesis of revolution and communism that chairman avakian has developed. why am i talking gauge why are we talking getting this everywhere? what's the significance of this? think about this. people are standing up. people are resisting, and people are questioning why are things

like this. do they have to be this way? could they be some other way? here you have a leader who has developed a framework and a guy that goes at that question and all around comprehensive way that brings to you in basic sense and understanding of why the world is like this. but also a vision of how it could be totally different and far better. now, think about the impact that this has for people who are standing up and questioned up, to have this framework that they can bounce off of, that they can debate with. that they can develop points of agreement and points of disagreement with. think of how this can spur forward that resistance and that question. because it would go at this sense that too many people have been suffocated with that things have to be this way, that there's no other way

fundamentally that they can be, so the best you can do is make service changes in the already existing setup. see, and in light of what we see as the importance of getting avakian's work and his vision and four, the revolutionary communist party has embarked on a campaign to raise big money, the money that is needed to get that work and that vision everywhere. and we encourage people to check this out but i just want to read a short excerpt from a piece that we wrote on this. you can love and agree with most of what bob avakian has to say, or you can disagree with a lot of it. or you can just feel like you don't know enough yet to be sure one way or another. even as you find yourself drawn in and attracted by different elements. but if you're a decent thinking person, a person with a conscience, someone who just can't go along with the notion that it is acceptable for great social injustices to repeatedly

be tolerated or swept under the rug, then this campaign is for you. see, so this is all part of what people who see the need for revolution need to be doing right now. now, i want to step, in closing, i want to step towards getting into again racially targeted massive incarceration did i already pay for you a picture of what it's like. this is a great injustice that needs to be stopped, and we are doing something to stop it right now. and when i say we, i can start with me and brother cornel, because he and i issued a call for a campaign of civil disobedience to stop stopping frisk. [applause] we did this because it's a pipeline to mass incarceration, and because it's just frankly,

it's talking illegitimate, illegal and unconstitutional. [applause] unicom and people should not have to put up with the rights being revoked because their skin happens to be black or brown. now, when we did this it was like, well, if it's just you and me, brother, we're going to go out there and do this, but we're going to call in other people to get with it. and when we issued the call for it and took it a lot of places, including places that some people thought we shouldn't, a lot of folks came together to take this thing out. we ended up with one thing that is develop around this movement against stop and frisk is a core of mostly younger people who are taking this up as their mission. they are debating right now whether they should call themselves the new freedom fighters or the new freedom riders. lively internet debate going on around this, and talk to me

later if you want to get some of, get in on it. you know, but these are young folks who are like, we got to do what he did in 1960s, we've got to put our bodies on the line. join together with these young folks, you've got ministers, you've got professors, we've got a professional comedian. we've even got one of the actors from the water went and got arrested with this. there was a bunch of other people. i made a point about taking places were some people thought we shouldn't, you know, because we said we should take it to occupy wall street. some folks of the folks on occupy wall street, white folk, they don't know nothing about stop and frisk. i thought yeah, they don't but they ought to. that's why we've got to go down there. [applause] and we went dish and then we went back again, and we went back again, and through the course of this, some of those white people who know nothing about stop and frisk learned about it and decided, like, this

is horrible, i have to do something about it. they're also a couple black and latino folks who hang out at occupy wall street who, until we started bring this, kind of felt like well, i can't bring what happens to me down here because nobody will want to relate to that. but then when they saw people who were saying let stand up and do something about it, they joined in readily. and then enjoy and help to bring in others. so that's how this core of younger people came together, and people are grappling with where does this come from, how do we stop, what to got to do with the revolution. and that's a very important part of what's develop. another important part of what he felt through this is that folks in the projects, black and brown high school kids who are just tired of being jacked up and harassed by the police but thought there was nothing could be done about it, when they saw these folks coming and going to the police precincts and doing

civil disobedience against, getting arrested, they were like stunned, and then gladdened. they will like to use see? there was even a jewish guy up there. know, and they were high-fiving in the projects. when the revolutionaries came back by, they were hugging them, because they are beginning to dare to hope that something could be done about this shit they're up against it they are not certain yet but they're beginning to dare to hope. and that's an important part of what's got to happen if you're going to bring forward a movement for revolution, a minute that can transform all of this pixel from coming you've got that happen from within. you've got the people didn't know about this injustice but who are learning about it. and acting to stop it. and see, this is what i'm talking about when i talk about fight the power and transform the people. we've got to bring people forward to stand up and resist. we've also got to bring to them the breath of what they're up

against. that it isn't just come you want to talk of the 99%, what happens to all of them is all you can deal with. because you got to do with the oppression of women. he got to do with what happens to keep your boat. you got to deal with a brutality that is coming down in the ghettos. iif you really good drugs in the interests of the overwhelming majority of people in this country and around the world. so, this is what i'm talking about, and just on this mass incarceration tip, this is a fight that you almost join in and take a. this is not just the thing for new york. it is not just the thing for the people in prison. this is for anybody who sees injustice in the way that people are warehoused in prison, a pipeline study used to get them there, and the less than human treatment that they did in prison. and once they get out of prison. students here have to join this fight. you've got to link up with people on campus and off campus

to build it. and get with us on this because we want to see this developed and we want to see determined resistance brought to this movement. it is very, very important. we have to stop the slow genocide. don't even think about how it could become fast and let's stop award is now. that's something we've got to do. [applause] and let me say this. for my part i'm going to be approaching it as part of building a movement for revolution, as fighting the power and transform the people of the revolution. and you got to get with his fight against mass incarceration would you agree with me on revolution or not. you got to get committee don't agree with revolution, you've got to agree with me this is unjust and must be stopped. but, of course, if you do agree with me on revolution he is even more reason to get in on this because it's building a revolutionary movement is something that this can contribute quite a bit to. now, i'm really at the end, and

i debated as to whether i should do this or not, is something we've been doing in new york around the stop and frisk thing. i'm going to try to and see if it works. y'all ready? because y'all involved in this too. mica check. mic check. here and all around the world. >> here and all around the world. >> whose life is over. >> whose life is over. >> whose fate has been sealed. >> whose fate has been sealed. >> who have been condemned to an early death. >> been condemned to an early death. >> or a life of misery and brutality. >> or a life of misery. whom the system has destined. >> whom the system has destined. >> for oppression and a bolivian. >> for -- even before they are born. i say no more of that.

>> i say no more of that. >> and having said no more of that. >> and having said no more of that. >> we must act to make it real. >> we must act to make it real. >> thank you, sisters and brothers. [applause] >> it's good to see a revolutionary communist in the flesh though, isn't it? i want to say that i'm blessed to be here. it's like i'm coming home. i grew up in sacramento, california,. [cheers and applause] right down the road. my brother clifton wes held mile record fo for a freshman for 38

years. part of 1972 ncaa track and field championship team with those like eddie hart and isaac curtis, and a host of others. each time i come to brooklyn i'm already fired up before i get to the lectern. [laughter] and i want to thank my brother carl dix. a lot of people asking why dispense with some of revolution and communism, revolutionary anarchists and prophetic jews and prophetic buddhist and prophetic hindus and all those agnostic and atheist. you know you nothing but a funky holy ghost black brother. i said yes, i'm a jesus loving freak black man. and i come from a tradition that says lift every to life. and if you have the courage to act in truth you have to listen to every voice because no individual, no group has a monopoly on truth. we need to listen to one another

and learn from one another if we're going to organize and mobilize together. [applause] i work with prophetic mormons if you want to talk about corporate greed and wealth inequality and the role of big money and politics an arbitrary military power and arbitrary police power has to do with what kind of human being you really are, what are you willing to sacrifice for. so if you are committed to truth, and the condition of truth is to allow suffering to speak, and if you're concerned about justice, and justice is what love looks like in public, so if you love poor people, if you love jamal on the chocolate side of town, if you love on the latino side of town or harry on the nose out of town or the asian side of town, didn't you talk about justice. because when you love, you are being treated unjustly. that's what we are here for.

that's what i of the country with this brother. of course, we don't agree on everything. i think he's wrong on the god question. we're going to get in on that later. that's all right. that's all right. look at the traditions of my dear brother, glad to see you. we got eric hudsons here. where is sister erika. stand, my dears history. where are you? i don't see you. where, where is -- there she is. put the camera on our dear sister erika hudgins. deep love. got a smile on her face. we love you, we love you. yes, we do. every voice.

i don't know if brother marvin is here, but i want to acknowledge that brother. i told him i could read his poem but i don't know if he made it or not. he's a student of the honorable lodge of mohammed. duke malcolm x. into one of the greatest freedom fighters of the twin century, malcolm x. lift every voice. i disagree here. i disagree there. we disagreed. we disagree with most of our politician. can you keep track of the element of truth in their late which and in the witness question keep track of the element of justice that is in their work and in the witness? that's the challenge. i don't care if you're palestinian but i don't care if you're is rig i don't care if it ethiopia but i don't care if you guatemala. if you have the courage to allow suffering to speak and you're concerned about the source of social misery and you see the

connection between unjust social structure and unfair structures of domination, generating unnecessary social misery, then you already own the love train. oh, yes. we need the o'jays, don't we? we already own the love train. that's my tradition john coltrane is a love supreme. curtis mayfield, aretha franklin, a genius bar just down the road named sly stallone. what did he say? stand, you've been sitting much too long, there's a permanent crease in your right and wrong. stand, they will try to make you crawl because they know what you are saying makes sense, and all. stand as a midget standing tall,

the giant beside him about to fall. stand, there is a cross for you to bear. hoops to go through if you're going anywhere. those are not just words that delay, stingley too many of our young folks superficial spectacle where they are told to be human and to be titillated and stimulated so they become addicted and self medicated to keep them sleepwalking. know, the occupying the is about the awakening. about deep democratic awakening. about those everyday people. [applause] of all the late james james, ordinary people. if you're fundamentally committed to the preciousness and the priceless miss of ordinary people, of everyday people, i don't care what color, i don't care what culture, what civilization, what sexual orientation. it's a human thing. but it begins with those catching hell, those called the

wretched of the earth. and the problem has been in the last 30 years that's a framework that those who love poor people, they love working people has been pushed to the side, this ice age within living where it's fashionable to be indifferent to poor people. that's what our children, can you imagine, 42% of our precious children are of color who live in or near poverty. that's more obscenity. that's an ethical abomination. every american to be ashamed. to live in a nation with oppressive youth, whatever color has to deal with that level of social neglect and economic abandonment. and is tied to agree, especially corporate greed at the top. well, we need to talk about oligarchic power, billions of

dollars at the top, trillions given to those at the top because they do dare to fail. give our precious young people too little to be highlighted. i don't know about you, i'm tired of that hypocrisy. investment bankers get in trouble, call for welfare, get trillions of dollars and are brothers and sisters who call for help and they are told to be responsible to do with the consequences of your actions. nothing but hypocrisy. true. for a brother on the corner is called a crack at, seven years, the those in wall street involving criminal behavior, insider trading, market manipulation, predatory lending. not one has been investigated or prosecuted. that's arbitrary rule of law. you can't have a society that

holds together if you don't come to terms of arbitrary rule of law. [applause] our young folks here, they saw in the 1980s as reaganism began to move in. gangsta rap. where does gangsta rap come from? you're acting gangster like. they look at wall street as a gangster activity. they look at the white house and so selections rather than in elections. the supreme court deciding against popular vote but a look at politicians and said my god, congress seems a -- 26 lobbyists are every congressman or congresswoman. they said everybody is concerned about the 11th amendment that shalt not get called. that's what our young folks are. they look at our church as a ceos rather than passive. use be a time where somebody was

concerned about nonmarket i like love and justice and fairness and fidelity and integrity and dignity and magnanimity. but no, no, not by the time we get to the early part of 21st century. everybody is for sale. everybody for sale. just give them big money. thank god for my dear sister alice walker. where is she? or is sister alice walker? where is she? stand, my dear sister because she is, oh, we love you. we love you sister alice. we love you but you're taking us down. all these years from gutbucket jim crow mississippi and this very day come you're still telling the truth in your own literary way. oh, yes. because i believe. i refuse to move forward without looking backward and seeing the freedom fighters of the past to help out the highest standards. the tony moore's, all of them in

their own way. brother west coming to you fully agree with any of them? no. i am a just manner i do what everybody imitating me. i want them to find their own voices. imitation is suicide. emulation is sign of an immature mind. be yourself. have the courage to be yourself. and then we overlap. that's the best, the history of black people. people that like to talk about the blackness these days, especially in the age of obama. everybody is colorblind. my dear brothers, good god, it's good to see this brother. stand up, brother. stand that. stand up, brother. prophetic islamic brother i did know you're in the audience, man.

i did not know. we were just and seven cisco together. he was onstage at atlanta college together. there's a brother named malcolm acts. this brother right here in the grand tradition. but we don't look deep enough, and it's mainly because we are afraid. we are scared. of taking seriously the contribution of black people of this nation. [applause] it has nothing to do with phenotypes. has to do with courage. vision, presenting an alternative world. poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world. what did he mean by that? it wasn't talk about crucified. we heard magnificent poetry.

but they were not just reading verses are saying versus to be poet in a most profound sense. they had the courage to unleash your imagination. so it's connected to your roots and the routes for which you go. and if you keep your routes consolidated and tight, but keep energy their for self-criticism, then you can go to any corner of the cloak of you can go to any nook and cranny of the nation, you can go into a crack house, white house, your momma's house, you still have integrity. you still got dignity. you still on fire for justice. you still want to tell the truth. young people are hungry and thirsty for truth and justice. they are tired of the lies they have been bombarded with. they are tied with the dominant culture of clever gimmicks of mass weapons of destruction.

-- distraction. brother, stand up. wrote the classic on the folk music. james brown, george clinton, from vallejo. wants 130 risen street band. and i aspire to be a funk master. it's about the truth guide to what samuel beckett called mass. but it is time and space, what is to be, bruises and scars all of us have as human beings the effect when all emerged. but all that blood down there, and that one day our bodies will be the pulmonary delight, that is funky too.

you folks died. and in a move from mamas womb to tomb, what kind of person i going to be? you ought to be, come to terms with social misery and are willing to straighten their backs of the income everyday people strengthen their backs up come to going somewhere because folks can't ride your backs unless it is bent. and that's what's happening today. folks are straightening up. .. >> well adjusted to injustice, well adapted to indifference. is that success? [applause] i'm old school.

my tradition told me to be great. and he or she is greatest among you has to do with the quality of your service to others and the depth of your love for others beginning with her great gift of our jewish brothers and sisters to the world; prophetic tradition. yes, it's there in egypt, it's there in africa, it's there in asia. but the whole tradition of conversational partners like micah and amos and isaiah and so many others saying to be human is to engage in loving kindness. the orphan, widow, fatherless, motherless, poor, weak, vulnerable, that is a profound contribution. and it's no accident that black people in this particular democratic experiment and empire because it's simultaneously

both, isn't it? for indigenous brothers and sisters, 1492 inaugurated world war i, it's been going on ever since. [laughter] let us never lose sight of the precedent of our indigenous brothers and sisters. but at the same time you had some guerrillas that were anti-imperialist. a question of principle. how come you don't get behind politicians? i get behind principles. [applause] i evaluate politicians in light of the principles. if they're black and brown, do you kind of tilt toward them because of that ethnic thing? [laughter] i'm very, very excited when i see black and brown and yellow folk breaking white supremacist barriers based on principle. [applause] because i hate white supremacy. just like i hate male supremacy, i hate anti-semitism, i hate

anti-arab, i hate anti-muslim, i hate homophobia. [applause] but at the same time even when they break those barriers, i want to know what they are doing, what your policies look like. does it reflect what amos was talking about when he said let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream? are you concerned about working people here and around the world, and especially are you concerned about the poor children whose voices rarely get a chance to surface? thank god for marion wright edelman been struggling for the last 45 years for our children. what future for our youth, they are 100%of the future. so, brother west, what are you calling for? let me say this, that i am excited about the occupy movement. i was in dialogue with brother david d.. where is he? stand up, brother david d.. one of the great freedom

fighters around here. love this brother. [applause] and why am i excited? because it's let by young people! led by young people! more of them know lupe my fiasco than they do donny hathaway. [laughter] need to know both. they know erica baa due more than nina simone. they need to know both. [applause] need to know about carole king, james taylor and bob dylan, peter seger, have a sense of history even as you make history in the present. [applause] and it's a beautiful thing for an old school brother like me to see young people disproportionately straighten up their backs and standing the way sly stone said in that way, like my brother carl dix, we refuse

to accept the notion that there's no alternative to the present. we will not defer to the truncated public discourse that says the only limits of our politics is a choice between a mean-spirited, mediocre, mendacious republican party and a spineless democratic party. [cheers and applause] we refuse to confine ourselves to that kind of limit! we want something else! we want another world, we want a were the world, we want more imagination, we want more empathy. and you say, oh, that's just utopian, you're just dreaming. what's wrong with dreaming? do you know, one of the greatest playwrights just like stephen son heym is our greatest playwright in song, he used to say either you dream or you die. by dreaming, i'm not talking

about some kind of cheap utopianism. i'm talking about how you generate hope. again, i come from a people, black folk, where for so long hope was a crime. can you imagine what it's like 244 years of slavery for the very notion of dreaming end up executed and later on under jim crow swinging from a tree? or even in the 1960s when you really dream like martin, the fbi keeps track of you every day from january 1956 until the day you die, and you discover that the very photographer with you every day was an fbi informant. dream or die. and it has to do with the depths of your love. if you're willing to lo, you

can't help but dream internship visions to -- alternative visions to a nightmarish present. it may be confined to your side of town, but sooner or later, it's going to hit vanilla suburbs too. brother tavis and i were on the poverty tour, that was the condition i would go out there. brother tavis, we must stop on an indian reservation. [applause] we went to the reservation, asked our red brothers, said, what do you think about recession? they said, what recession? [laughter] well, you know, they got 9.3 unemployment -- oh, lord, we've had 40 for decade after decade after decade after decade after decade. look to the barrio with our latino brothers and sisters. they say it's 18, 19, we know they're not telling the truth. count the folk who's given up looking for jobs. count the folk who are working part time. go to the black section of town.

what recession are you talking about? it's only recession now because it's affecting disproportionately our pressured white brothers and sisters. [applause] let's be honest about it. if we're really in it together, then when it effects one of us, it effects all of us. [applause] i don't care what color you are, i don't care what your own cognitive commitments are. and that is what is magnificent about this movement. no one predicted that people would be talking about corporate greed and wealth inequality, let alone right-wing brothers and sisters on fox news. laugh -- [laughter] brother bill o'reilly, he's got to somehow defend wall street now. [laughter] i haven't seen any criminal behavior whatsoever. we haven't investigated, brother, we can't investigate. [laughter] ask the justice department to do it. justice department won't even investigate the torturers from the last administration, the

wiretappers from the past. [applause] and you know the wiretaps got us. [laughter] i turn on a little loo that when i hear things going on. i believe in spreading the good stuff. [laughter] but it's also important to laugh, though, isn't it? that's why the blues is tragic comic, not just tragic. deals with incongruity. that's the first time a black person ever spoke to large numbers of free black people, 1837, henry highland garnet. he stepped up and said never confuse the people of the black people or hebrew scripture for black people, pharoahs on both sides of the bloody red seas. you've got to be tragic comic. you've got to sing a song but keep on pushing the way curtis

talked about. just sing a song to keep the spirit going. you see? the occupy movement now is in a stage where it's getting blews-like because -- blues-like because the attacks are becoming more vicious, the lies are becoming thinger. you're going to have to learn something from a blues people. hope and optimism are qualitatively different. that's going to have something to do with the depths of your commitment. it's going to have something to do with the very young people that brother carl dix was talking about. the ones locked into the military industrial complex. we spent $300 billion in the last 28 years, it's called the marshall plane, but it's a penal marshall plan. didn't have a marshall plan for education or housing, but they found $300 billion for jails,

prisons and the criminal justice system. thank god for angela davis and so many other folk who have been highlighting this issue. [applause] oftentimeses voices in the wilderness, but now coming to the center. and we got to make the connection between that military industrial complex, highly-racialized but also tied to our poor white brothers and sisters. one of the fastest groups undergoing incarceration, poor whites. and sisters who are poor. absolutely. absolutely. disto portion mate black -- disproportionate black and brown sisters. but we've got to connect that with the military industrial come complex, you see? because the military budget also is a major priority. we have no money, but here comes iraq. we have no money, but here comes afghanistan. always l find the money there. not for the children, not for

the workers, not for the poor. warped priorities. [applause] warped priorities. then the drones, human acts dropping bombs on innocent people. while we're trying to kill terrorists while you kill their tower. their daughter. that little daughter's precious. the daughter of a terrorist of whatever color is precious. 4 years old, 5 years old, she's not responsible for the choices of her father. she ought not never to be killed, i don't care which government does it. and once you move down the path of collective punishment, the next thing you know you become so callous, your soul has become so chilly and your heart has become so hardened that you start talking about them in terms of collateral damage rather than precious human beings. [applause] as part of the imperial policy

we've got to talk about that. and sometimes our young folk the only major choice they make is in the military. then we connected to the corporate oligarchy complex on wall street and corporate elites where the wealth is hemorrhaged at the top. 1% of the population owning 40% of the wealth. the top 400 individuals in america have wealth equivalent to the bottom 150 million. now, that, for me s a keith sweat moment. something, something just anticipate right. [laughter] ain't right. i know brother ice is here somewhere. where is brother ice? the hip-hop artist? is he still here? where is he? there he is. give this brother a hand. another artist, serious artist just like lieu -- lupe fiasco

and the others. and i keep playing out the artists because you have to play -- artists must play a fundamental role in this movement. got to play a fundamental role in this movement because when you're talking about what we're up against, you better have your spirit fortified, you better have your soul so determined that nothing can turn you around, and you ought to be focusing on the love. the occupy movement is a love movement, it is not hating anybody. when i give a particular oligarchy, i'm not talking about hating oligarchs, i'm talking about the use of oligarchic power which is a choice. it is a decision. we're not demonizing anybody, we are demonizing systems. [applause] that's why none of us are purely part of the solution. we're all shot through with contradictions. there's white supremacy inside of me. there's male supremacy inside of me. there's homophobia inside of me. i've got to work it through. i've got to wrestle with it.

that's where the courage, the imagining and emphasize plays a fundamental role. [applause] so tonight let anybody tell you the occupy movement is about hatred and revenge as a qualitative difference between justice and revenge, and you don't have to read shakespeare to know the difference. but it's a nice text to read. [laughter] powerful text for the distinction. powerful text. i'm going to bring this to a close, but you can see where i'm headed, namely it is the begin canning of a new day. -- beginning of a new day. the conservative era is coming to a close. free market fundamentalism has failed. [applause] neoliberal policies here and abroad are morally bankrupt. they have no future. if you're concerned about poor and working people and the challenges first, shatter the sleep walking. that's the first thing we have to do,, and in that sense the

occupy movement is already vick victorious because it has shattered sleep walking. everybody's got to talk about corporate greed. [applause] i don't care where you come from, i don't care who you are, you can be a right-wing centrist, neoliberal or revolutionary. a beautiful thing in america. america is the place that often is afraid of the truth. when it comes to allowing suffering to speak. it's true. look at the u.s. constitution. no reference to the institution of slavery. 22% of it happened in the 13 colonies. they're very -- their very labor producing the wealth, no reference to that institution. you end up fighting the civil war over an institution not invoked in your constitution. that's called chickens coming home to roost. [laughter] you reap what you sow. and if it wasn't for frederick douglass and harriet tubman,

william lloyd garrison, so many others, they say, you know what? 2007 all of this -- given all of this ridge that's surfacing -- rage that's surfacing just like in the occupy movement, you can either go toward anger, revenge, bigotry or toward love, justice and equality. that has been the fundamental role of the black prophetic tradition from frederick douglass to a. phillip randolph to ida w. wells bar net to ella baker to martin luther king jr. to stevie wonder. i know his music was playing when we came in. [applause] how is it that when these black people who have been terrorized and traumatized and stigmatized for so long, hated for so long keep dishing out all of this love? that's a fundamental question. that's what i love about carl

dix. y'all might look at him and see just a communist. i look at him and see a black man who loves poor people and working people, and he's working out his alternative vision, and he's been true to it for the last 45 years. and even if i disagree with x and y, i can keep track of the love. [applause] and that's what we need to do to each and every one of us. because if you have courage, you're going to man some of that love -- fan fest some of that love tied to justice. talk about the middle east the same way. where's the love? our jewish brothers and sisters jumping out of the burning buildings of europe, landing on the backs of arab brothers and sisters. how do you talk about a love for our precious jewish brothers and sisters on the one hand who have been hated for so long, and at the same time they know their very prophetic tradition leads them to talk about justice. yes, justice for precious palestinian brothers and sisters

too. [cheers and applause] let's just be honest about it. keep both at the same time. you can love both of those folk. keep track of that love on both sides, but keep -- [inaudible] alive on both sides. that's what we're talking about, that's what makes this movement so beautiful. and i want to come to a close on this note of hope because it's precisely when we lift our voices and engage that we indirectly and directly empower each other. and the empowerment is not a pat on the back, it's an unsettling. it's like that first line in henry david thoreau's walden, what can i do to wake my neighbors from their sleepwalking? that's what lifting your voice is all about. it's like lying 24a when plato says to socrates my fearless

speech, my unintimidated speech, my frank speech which had to do with that which was calling into question those presup suppositions that had blinded people for so long, but they needed empowerment, and they started loving folks who had been so prophetic and blues-like. thank god for the occupy movement. [cheers and applause] [cheers and applause] >> wow, that's nice.

brother james just drew a beautiful picture. we're talking about artists. give that young brother a hand. where's brother james? there he is right there. [applause] there he is. put the camera on brother james. love you there, brother. >> i gotta take that picture home with me and show it to my granddaughter. >> but, you know, yours is more handsome than i because you're more handsome than i. [laughter] >> i'm going to leave that one alone, i'm just going to show it to my granddaughter. >> isn't that beautiful? brother james, we love you. [applause] >> see, every time we talk you be outing me. >> on the -- >> you keep telling people that i'm motivated by love. >> that's true, that's true. and sister yvette, your

wonderful wife, would agree with you. you've got that deep love in you. >> most of the time, yes, she would. but i was thinking about a few things when you talked. >> yes, yes. oh, my god. [laughter] >> there was the question of love, but i was also thinking about dreaming and revenge. >> yeah, yeah. >> and on this dreaming piece one thing that folks used to always say about me is you just a dreamer. and i was kind of like, oh, man, you know? what's wrong here? am i not accomplishing things, is my head in the clouds? but then i ran across a piece from lenin, vladimir lenin, the leader of the russian revolution, where he talked about dreaming. and he basically said ain't nothing wrong with dreaming as long as your dreams come from a basis of reality, and they are

big dreams, but then you're constantly measuring the difference between your dreams and reality and working to narrow that distance. by bringing reality in line with what you're -- but also bringing your dreams back in line with reality because if you dream in awe somewhat, you might have to readjust those dreams because what you're thinking about can't be realized. and once i came across that, i was, hey, dreaming ain't so bad. >> with the content of the dream because you can have fascist dreams -- [laughter] you know what i mean? patriarchal dreams, homophobic dreams. [laughter] but for me this issue of love and hatred tied to the systemic analysis of power because crucial, you know, george bernard shaw used to say hatred is coward's revenge against those who intimidate you.

so hatred's always -- [inaudible] but at the same time if you hate injustice and you're willing to pay a cost the way martin and the others did, then that has to do with love. and part of the problem these days is that we don't have enough people, especially for our young people, who embody that. you see, when i was coming along in the '60s, huey newton and bobby seal and martin and marion wright aid edelman and the othe, it was very clear they had such a depth of integrity that they would never sell out to the highest bidder. never. whereas the market-driven society we have for our young people you ask them who your heros are, they tend to be those who are most visible in the market, who had the biggest money. well, how much political courage do they have? well, i hadn't really thought about that. [laughter] and there's nothing wrong with having a certain kind of genius.

oprah winfrey has entrepreneurial genius. i can celebrate it, and i love her until the day i die. but when you juxtapose her with ella baker, you see that there's not a lot of political courage at work. and it has to do with her market calculations. who's watching the show. same tz all these folk -- same as all these folk on television. you can just see 'em all cramped up. they really won't tell the truth because they have limits. that's the danger of putting all these folks, especially these days. it's almost rent a negro on tv, you know what i mean? [laughter] [applause] you look up and see all these people talking, wait, you weren't talking talking this wae years ago. they got a job on the corporate media player. i said, lord, have mercy. what happened? it's too truncated. we've got to provide examples to

young people of free human beings. of whatever color. and we need more of them. we need more of them. >> yeah. i'm glad when you said that, that you distinguished between hating injustice and hating people because i think there is a real difference there because for me the hatred of injustice is tied to the love for the people who are being unjustly treated. and i actually like the way you out me because that is where i'm coming from, and sometimes i don't always get around to it. but i think people need to get that. and then we need to grapple with this thing about revenge because from one end there are people who have been horribly abused in this society and in this world, and this should be angry about that. but then if all that takes you

to is i want to strike back, i want my chance, then you're not going to be able to fundamentally uproot all of that madness that i talked about in that quote about what the society is like, the oppressive, exploy tative relations and everything that goes along with it. so you've got to hate the abuse that's coming down, but you also have to hate it enough and love the people enough for being abused to want to get scientific about it. where is this coming from, how can we understand that, and how can we move to deal with it? who are the allies that we can bring forward in this struggle? so i think that's important, and that's one of the things -- because sometimes when people hear me say it's not our youth's fault, they didn't create this situation, they think i'm giving them a pass. that they can stay in the shift that they're into. that's not it at all. i'm understanding the situation

that they're faced with and what they're in, but then the other thing i've got to say with them is now that we know why you're facing this situation, we've got to say what are we going to do about that? are you going to go out the way they put up for you to go out, or are we going to stand up, are we going to say, no, we ain't going out like that? we are not less than human, and we will knot be dehumanized and become inhuman. in fact, we are going to bring, we're going to be the emancipators of humanity. we're not just looking to get the shit off of us and fuck everybody else, we're looking to overturn the structure that have weighed down heaviest on us, but also are weighing down on people all over the world quite haley too, you know? that's right. [applause] >> that's one of the things i liked about the brother's distinction between resentment on the one hand and righteous indignation on the other.

it resonates with my own legacy of jerusalem. through slavery, jim crow and the black musical tradition. because what happens oftentimes is if you engage in righteous indignation in this society, people want to reduce that down to you just having envy and resentment. in the same way that when different groups come together, like let's say people like the black community, all the black community has is interest. that's not true. that's the way the dominant corporate media puts it forward, but there's principles as well as interest. you see? you never allow anybody or any group to reduce you oz an individual -- as an individual just for your interests. it may not be in your interest to save your child, but you're going to try to do it anyway because you've got principles. might not be in your interest to save your mama, somebody trying to violate her, but you love her, you have principles. what has happened in the last 40

years anytime you talk about black folks, it's just a matter of special interest groups. martin luther king jr. didn't need a special interest group. he led a group of de-niggerized black people. [applause] that's very important. because to be so scared and afraid and intimidated you won't do anything, to be de-niggerized makes you stand up. better put on your cemetery clothes. [laughter] that's what he used to say all the time because down in the dust bucket, mesh appar -- american apartheid, you could get killed quick. but it was based on principle, it wasn't just black interests. and we need to get back to talking about principles and ideals as well as just interests. so white brothers, is it in my interest to help poor people? well, what wind kind of -- what

kind of human being do you want to be? if it's just a matter of your individual interests, you can join a crypto-fascist movement. oligarchs can be freedom fighters if they so choose. they just have to commit a certain kind of class suicide, you know? [laughter] but as individuals they can choose based on their principles. and we need to get back to talking -- that's what i love about dr. pike again, you see, not the resentment, but the principles. and you see that throughout the work of love. on that point we in deep solidarity. i know i disagree on others. do you want to say something about the god questions question? is. >> well, the two places i was thinking about taking it, and one was coming off that you keep doing things like, you know, resonating distinction between indignation, resonates with where you're coming from and you did it up there earlier, and i

could come from another way on that. >> okay. >> because when the thing that marx does about socialism and communism, socialism being from each according to their ability, to each according to their work and communism being from each according to their ability, to each according to their need is actually drawn from some bib ri call -- biblical -- >> the book of acts. >> yes, exactly. so, you know, there's a way in which, and what he was getting at there was, you know, you can draw knowledge from a lot of different places. >> absolutely. >> but he was getting at the kind of world that could be brought into being, and then, you know, when we talked the last time, i think i got into the point a lot of people focus up communism and marxism on the thing about the opiate of the people. but i remember, i read marx for the first time for a college

writing course. and i read him because the teacher said, all right, you've got to do an essay. and here are the different authors you can take to write the essay on. but i must tell you, if anybody takes karl marx, i will fail them. [laughter] okay? now, this teacher, she didn't know me very well. because i was, like, i got to take carl karl marx, you know? and i read him, and i was lake, this stuff makes some sense. and one of the things i remembered reading was his point about religion being the heart of a heartless world. and at that point i had earlier been raised up in the church, and folks were like, oh, this is going to be the new head of the church, this is going to be like the pastor because at the age of 10, i would do all the school, all the church plays and, you know, the nativity things, and

i'd know all the roles if people would forget their lines, and i would whisper to them. so they're, like, he's going to go far with this. but then i was up against questions that i could not deal with in the context of religion. and then i read marx's thing, you know, and i dropped out of the church, but i didn't go to atheism. i was just, like, i don't know about it. but then i read this thing about the heart of a heartless world and that what needs to be done is we need to put heart in the world by getting rid of capitalism and all that it means. and in a world with heart what would be the role of religion? you know, and that's a marxist approach to that. >> with yeah. >> now, i know you and then

through the course of that people will still be able to practice religion in society. >> sure. >> you know, that would be a wrong approach to try to suppress that. but that heart in a heartless world would no longer be necessitated. and that's part of where we see -- >> and i see the power of that, i see the power of that claim. i mean, there's no doubt that the history of religious institutions have been acceptedly accommodating to structures of.com nhl. when we're talking about religious as i understand it and christian faith as i understand it, you're actually talking about those prophetic voices and conversational partners that go alongside the margins of all of these different religious

institutions. most of christianity is -- [inaudible] christianity which is so accommodated to the prejudices of the world onto a coward disthat people use it as a source of -- [inaudible] rather than a source of generating courage. most of judaism is constitutional judaism. jews in america moving to the upper middle class, falling in love with the felicities of biewrnlg boy existence. following in love with respectability from the guy yam, never thinking you could be mainstream given the vicious history of anti-semitism. no, amos says have a critical suspicion of that. it's right there in the text. jonah says every yom kippur, have a suspicion of that. that's very difficult. most forms of buddhism in america accommodated to prejudice. but the prophetic is suspicious. and that's true, actually, in

terms of secular institutions. liberalism's accommodation to a vicious form of imperialism, for example. and we know the failures of maxism in terms of the ganger-like communist regimes of stalin and a whole host of others killing millions and millions is and millions of people, but there's a prophetic element in the marxist analysis that says the precious humanity of poor working people must be accident even in the face of the gangster-like communist regime. marx's critique of communist regimes in that. so you would accept that, though, wouldn't you? >> well, i want to talk about this gangster-hike regimes -- like regimes point. >> stalin was a gangster, you agree with that? >> no, i don't agree he was a backster. he led the first socialist revolution after the death of lenin, and he was trying to do something that had never been done before, and there were shortcomings in the understanding of the communist movement at that point.

no, and he had to move with this. he had to say, all right, we've socialized the means of production, but there's a lot of disagreements here. where are they coming from? and at that point the communist movement had no understanding of where you would get that kind of resistance with the means of production socialized. and. >> you know it's not right to wipe out your friends. >> okay. all right. >> you can get that in seminary. >> okay. well, i'm not sure what he got in seminary. [inaudible conversations] [laughter] >> that's another question. no, but it was -- >> that's a good -- wiping out your friends is wrong. killing friends is wrong. [laughter] >> under socialism that he didn't know where they were coming from. now, mao was able to look at what they did in the soviet union and say, okay, this is where those contradictions were

coming from. it's not enough just to make the farm collective property. it's not enough to make the factory collective property. you actually have to deal with relations between people left over from the old society, those who work with their minds, those who work with their backs. you have to deal with the fact that you got to have exchange between the farms and the factories, and those are differences that contain, can contain the seed of antagonism if you don't handle them right. and mao was able to work at that much better. but, see, part of what we have done in going at this is actually look at what were those societies trying to do. how did they go about it? and what did they achieve? because in both russia and china you were talking about societies where the people were poor, illiterate. >> oh, there's no doubt. >> beaten down. >> no doubt. >> and in both of those societies people's material

conditions were transformed, literacy was brought to them. in china they went even smarter. they started out with 70 million drug addicts. they wiped out drug addiction as a social problem and not by punishing the people who were on drugs, but by giving them a source of hope in the new societies that they forged and by treating addiction as a medical problem, you know? so those are things that you can learn from that. and on the basis of learning that, they can also look at and here's where they went wrong. stalin on not being able to get the difference on contradictions between the enemy and contradictions among the people. mao by getting that, but still going up against things like thinking there should be an official ideology for the society. no, there shouldn't be an official ideology. there should be contention between a lot of different viewpoints. that what is brought forward in terms of solid core with a lot of elasticity, that we need a

setup where there's diversity, debate, discussion and -- [inaudible] including from the people who say socialism is fucked up. we need to hear from them because they will know some things and understand some things that the people who are with you don't get. and if you don't hear from them, that's going to mean you don't know enough about reality to transform it in another direction. >> no, but see this is another reason why you and i resonate so much in terms of the critique of not just unfettered markets, but of capitalist relations in which there's asymmetric relations with power at the workplace, bosses and workers. >> uh-huh. >> in terms of the alternative, it's a larger discussion, i know we want to open it up, but once we get to talk about stalin and mao and so forth, we parking lot lot -- we part company on that, brother. [laughter]

>> [inaudible] >> that's exactly, we -- i think we have to be very clear in our language. no matter what the historical conditions are, no matter what the difficulties are it's just wrong to kill folk. [applause] you know what i mean? >> that's an arbitrary use of power. >> and we see arbitrary use of power in feudal societies, we see it in capital societies. a lot of people in america don't like to see it. brother grant shot down as arbitrary police power. [applause] brother anthony troy executed by the state -- >> troy's execution -- >> that's arbitrary power. of course, we're going to be highlighting his 30 years, we're going to be affiliated together, a free man on death row. but still there's arbitrary powers at the top anytime you have centralized power that's unaccountable. i don't care if it's in the public sector, the private

sector, civil society and is so so -- and so on. and that's where our discussion if we had a whole lot of time, we should wrestle with. but you think we should open it up? in we should open it up, the thing about solid core we las disty is exactly to seek, because we understand the contradiction even in a revolutionary society, and part of how you deal with that is unleashing that diversity, that debate and that dissent so that the leadership is not unchecked. that's also why we want to publish a constitution for the future socialist republic now so people can say this is what they say they're going to do. let's see how they build up to it, and then let's see how they act. >> and that leads right to dissent. >> yeah. >> the right to express dissent. the right to cut against the grain. >> yes. >> [inaudible] >> that's all in the constitution, and we want people to know that so they can see if it ain't going down. and then another thing in there

is not doing the death penalty. >> oh, we know how barbaric that is. the death penalty means the nation-state has the capacity to take a human life with some element of doubt? that's barbaric. that's just barbaric. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> we going to follow your instructions. >> you ain't got no sound other there, man. [laughter] you want that one there? >> there you go. >> all right. so let's give both our brothers a big, huge hand. [applause] >> so those of you who are walking out right now, you can

hold on for a second just to hear this message. you know, we really pieced together this event, um, up until a couple of hours ago trying to get support to have this facility, to have the overflow rooms, everything you see here and to have our wonderful speakers come. so there's going to be some ushers, um, at the end of the room -- is that right? okay. at the end of the room. so when you walk out, whatever you feel, you know, you can contribute to this effort because we're still in deficit. and, you know, it's -- both of the brothers here said regardless we're going to do it, we're going to make it happen, but we've still got to pay the bills. [applause] so whatever you feel you can, you know, whatever you can do we'll be really grateful -- will

be really grateful and helpful and, you know, let's get the q&a going. >> how are you going to do it, are you going to -- >> [inaudible] >> who should we write the checks to? >> the english department. because, let me just tell you why. [laughter] the english department established a university chart string for us and so, basically, we have funneled all of our funding through a particular chart string that the english department set up for us. so thank you for that. >> put the dialogue in the memo line. [laughter] >> indeed, indeed. >> just to make sure. >> um, we have received a lot of questions, and so, basically, i've placed the priorities on questions that are in

relationship to students. and so the first question for you all is that there is talk that the occupy movement is going to die soon. what advice do you give uc berkeley students to keep it alive? >> well, one has got to go through different forms and phases. there's no doubt that when the sun comes out in february in california, in april in new york the occupy movement will be stronger than ever. [applause] stronger than ever. but it will go through different phases as it moves into the winter. because tents and snow -- >> don't go. >> well, they go, but they only go for a few folk. i mean, it's not going to be a mass movement out there. [laughter] because there are some folk who will stay out there, and i'll be with them in the afternoon. [laughter] i'll be right there with 'em.

but i don't want wear coats, so i got to get home when it gets cold like that. but when you come out in april, you're right there again. but the important thing is the idea, the vision, the commitment. that will not die with the moving to winter. >> will okay. well, let me just say this quickly. there is an attempt, a concerted attempt nationwide to slam the door on the occupy movement. >> that's true. >> both through repressing it, these nationally-coordinated evictions, and then also trying to co-opt it, to turn it into the tail on the donkey in the electoral arena. and people have to resist that. but here, to me, is what the key is. the key is the resistance to inequality and injustice -- >> that's right. >> -- and deeply questioning why things are like this. because even if you can't get together in zucotti park or wherever it was that people were occupying, you can still resist.

you can still dig into those questions, and you have to figure out the ways to do that collectively. >> that's right. >> and you can continue to draw, connect the dots between the different kinds of injustice and the resistance that's developing. and on that basis you could come out with a stronger movement. >> that's right. >> one that sees more clearly what it's up against and has brought together allies from different experiences. you know, which there's tension in that process, but it's also important to take up. >> okay, thank you. and we are willing to take questions from the mic as well, so we want to go back and forth to the written ones versus a mic question, so we're going to shift to a mic question. >> jeff brooks. i would like to see a show of hands, um, there's over the last ten years there's been a lot of the u.s. occupying the middle east, and there were millions of people that stood behind bin laden in wanting to kill

americans. i'm thinking that those maybe less likely to attack us because america is getting occupied. so i'm thinking that the occupy movement is a citizen-diplomat movement that it's avoiding this tension of trying to get revenge on america because now america is occupied. is that a -- too way out? >> i didn't fully follow that. >> since the occupiers are citizen-diplomats -- >> uh-huh. >> -- um, the march 16, 2004, poll of the middle east, of poor middle eastern countries found huge percentages of people that thought justified killing of americans was a good idea. so where are those 300 million middle easterners today?

>> okay, i see the point that you're raising, and see, i guess, here's how i rook at it -- how i look at it. you've still got the u.s. firing drones into pakistan, you know? killing people. they say they're shooting at terrorists but, look, you shoot a drone, it's going to destroy a whole village, you know? so you might hit somebody who was mad at you, but you're going to hit a whole bunch of other folks. and as long as that's going to keep going down, people are going to be righteously angry. and a challenge for people in this country -- including people in the occupy movement -- is to go global with this question of the 99%. that there are people all around the world who we relate to, we stand with. and it's going to be on that basis that people should develop around the world a different view towards this country. but then, and see here's why i say that it'll take nothing less than revolution, because as long as the u.s. is shooting off

those drones and sending troops into africa, they sent troops into africa about a month or so ago in addition to the middle east, there are going to be people who hate being invaded, being bombed and all like that. and we have to actually stand up and struggle against that and resist that in this country in addition to resisting the inequality and injustice here in this country. and like i say, we've got to make revolution so that these folks, this ruling class that's firing off these drones to keep their global thing in effect are no longer in the position to do so. >> thank you very much. >> absolutely. >> okay. so we'll go pack to a -- go back to a written question. >> okay. >> and this one states we are taught to be ashamed of our past, of our poverty, ashamed of not being successful. but you, professor cornel west, have deshamed us. thank you. so the question is, how do we

redefine success? >> appreciate the question. one is that i appreciate the kind word, but no one individual can fully deshame. when you look at me, you see the people who love me. you see the people who sacrificed for me. the people who cared for me. i am just one moment in a rich tradition. so all you are getting is just this, these nuggets of wisdom. i just got nuggets. they had huge rocks in the past. because they dealing with levels of catastrophe, of slavery and jim crow and self-hatred and self-violation and self-destruction i couldn't even conceive of. but i still want to be connected with them. and i try to get all the wisdom i can. so if i just drop a nugget, that's not just me, that's my

grandmama speaking through me, you see? [applause] that's huey newton speaking through me. and curtis mayfield. the musicians speaking through me. so in that sense we always want to count it in a tradition, a rich tradition. then the question of miseducation. there's a qualitative difference between schooling and education. if all you're going to do is just get schooled, then you're going to end up with the same empty soul and moral backwardness, spiritual malnutrition and moral constipation. [applause] but you'll be very smart. and the worst thing that's happened to young people is we've told young people to be the smartest in the room. just like that film, "the social network," you see? the smartest in the room. nazis, some of them were very

smart. the defenders of american apartheid, some of them were very smart. they had ph.d.s from harvard. but you know what? they were gangsters. they were thugs when it came to the humanity of especially people of color. and there's no monopoly of any one group or race in that regard. all we're saying is we want a holistic, deep education that goes beyond schooling so you connect courage, compassion, bearing witness. what my dead brother calls revolution, i call bearing witness. [applause] because i'm a christian. because all i'm going to do before i die is bear witness and go to the coffin. [laughter] now, that will involve itself with working with revolutionaries and even being critical to revolutionaries in light of the love. that bearing witness, and bearing witness is a beautiful thing. there's joy in serving others and never confuse that with pleasure. [applause]

we live in a society obsessed with pleasure, and education becomes schooling and miseducation when it's just about your own narcissistic pleasure. but joy is something else. don't get caught in the joyless quest for pleasure. get some joy in there. so you really have soul, like the soul stirs as lou rawls and sam cooke, bubble gum music these days among young folks, but we won't get into that right now. [laughter] >> i just want to add a story from my own past on this thing of redefining success and greatness. >> yes. >> because when i was, when i got the orders to go to vietnam, i really felt that morally i should not go and practically it wouldn't be such a good idea, you know? is. [laughter] because, no, i'd be shooting at people, and they'd be shooting at me, and i saw some of those

g.i.s who came back from vietnam, and they had lost their motherfucking mind, i mean, they were just off. but the last thing i had to deal with was i knew my participants wanted me to be successful, and how could i go to them and say, mom, dad, i'm going to jail because i think this is wrong? finish and -- and even more than that, i think the whole country is wrong, and i think i need to be a revolutionary. and, you know, i thought about that, and i went on leave before it was time to go, and i said, with, i've got to tell 'em, you know? and i told my mother and father, and my mother was worried for my safety, that was always my mother's -- >> that's love though. >> yes. but my father's thing was do you think this is right? and i said, i know it's right. and then he said, well, if it's right, then you should do it as well as you can. ?rsh. >> oh, that's beautiful. that's beautiful. [applause] >> because you're going to stand

up this way, then don't stand up half-assed, go all the way and go as far as you can with it. and that's what people need to do today. they need to get to the truth of something and then act on that truth and act as well as they can, taking it as far as they can. and then, also, be open to new sources of information and analysis which might let you know that you was off in one sense or another. because, you know, you can't proceed like you've got 100% knowledge. that would be just objectively not true. the only way you can get a deepened understanding of reality is to be open to other viewpoints including ones that disagree with you. >> that's right. >> we have a question from this side. [applause] >> okay. um, so my question in regards to the talks on the occupy movement that you've referenced earlier, and it seems to be a very

pro-occupy stance. but, um, i feel like some of the other issues that we have been, um, speaking about tonight race, gender, the prison industrial complex, homophobia, all of these issues, um, don't tie into what i see going on with the occupy movements and who is out there and who is protesting and what they're standing for. because from what i see, it's a middle class, white, college graduates out there who are upset because there are no jobs. and we see the media paying attention almost as if it was vietnam again, it's not a problem until it's a middle class problem. and, um, so the power dynamics are still very existent even within this movement, and, um, we look at film from the occupy atlanta where, um, john lewis went to speak, and he wasn't allowed to speak, and he was shut down by, um, a white male

who had a megaphone and took several votes, and there was a lot of confusion in the crowd. and so we see this power dynamic with race again even within the movement. so, um, i'm questioning whether this is a movement of social justice or if it's about white middle class people who can't get a job. and, you know, where were they six years ago when middle class income was on the rise by 6%? you know, these are issues that people have been facing since the beginning of time. we look at the native americans, we look at latinos, we look at blacks, you know, these are issues that have been going on. where were they? [applause] >> no -- >> can i say a word about that? my dear sister, i appreciate that question. it's a very important question. we had a magnificent discussion

just a few weeks ago on precisely that issue. but i think, one, we have to be very careful where we get our information from. [applause] you see, if you're looking at c, cnn as opposed to amy goodman, you're going to get a very different perspective of who's there. [applause] you know what i mean? or msnbc, fox news and so forth. the corporate media tends to be truncated in its representations of the variety and diversity of the occupy movements. there's a whole lot of different folk out there, large numbers. a number of them precious homeless brothers and sisters. right there with them. you see? is now, you are right, it's disproportionately young, it's disproportionately vanilla -- [laughter] and 43% of them have been through college a year or two or three. so it's tilted in that way. but, you see, when you talk about truth and justice, if it's

truth and it's just, no matter who says it, it's the issue. [applause] you see what i mean? so if they're talking about corporate greed and corporate greed is pushing the nation to the brink of catastrophe, whoever says it is true. you see? it's true. so in that sense you certainly have students concerned about their loans and so forth, but that's just one element. one element. you've got anarchists out there who have been organized since seattle 12 yearsing ago. [applause] you've got communists out there. you've got democratic socialists and america -- you've got a whole lot of folks. you've got some christian evangelicals out there. the seminary where i'm headed -- i just left princeton, you all know, i'm going back to new york, we've got a union theological seminary occupy chaplaincy of 45 pastor, and they're not there for student loans. [laughter] you see what i mean? but i hear what you're saying,

the movement must deal with these issues. of course there's going to be racism in the occupy movement. this is america. what do you expect? [cheers and applause] all white folk ain't not going to become john brown overnight. that's not going to happen. [laughter] it's not going to become miles orton overnight. but if they're trying to fight against racism, you have got to help them fight against racism. [applause] come together. let's fight against this homophobia. make sure our jewish brothers and sisters feel open if they're willing to be critical about the state of israel vis-a-vis the occupation. [applause] see what i mean? that's very important. palestinians, they've got to keep track of the humanity of the jewish brothers and sisters as they join too. because if we're talking about love, justice and so forth, a higher standard for all of us. all of us will fall short. each and every one of us will fall short, but we'll know what the standards will be, and that's what we've learned what

martin was talking about in the '60s. they said we need martin king so bad, if we could just put a smile on his face from the grave, ooh, that would be a major thing. because he been weeping for 30 some years every day. [applause] every day. even with black presidents, he's still crying. [laughter] he is. >> yeah. >> because he loves the symbolism, but when he looks on the ground and sees the precious human beings tealing with de-- dealing with deplorable circumstances, he's on the love train. he's got that love supreme. he weeps. and we've got to put a smile on that brother's face. but he is just a moment in a tradition. that goes all the way back down through the corridors of time. that was a long answer to that question. appreciate that question, though, sister. >> let me hit just a little shorter, i hope. six years ago most of the people in the occupy movement were sleepwalking past the graveyard in everything that was going on

around them because things seemed to be going well. frankly, three years ago a lot of them were swept up into obama mania. okay? but at this point they're opening their eyes to something, they're standing up against some injustice, and my approach to that is i'm not going to be mad at you because you wasn't there six years ago or three years ago -- [applause] i'm going to go to you right now and say you're on to something. but you're not seeing the whole pick hur. picture. here is what it looks like. i'm going to go to you with what's happening around the world, that this 99% has to be seen on a global level. i'm going to go to you with what's happening up in harlem, what's happening over in the south bronx. this is going down every day. and if you want to talk about the 99%, you've got to say that this section of it over here in the ghettos and barrios are

dealing with some things. and if you see that as outside of your issues, you're not relating to the 9 t %. i'm going to challenge people to not only be true to their principles, but to take those principles and on that basis dick dig deeper into reality. i'm going to challenge them to engage this thing of what i have to say about nothing short of revolution can deal with all of this and then get into all of the political and ideological questions that come up around that, you know? can we organize horizontally, can we organize at a distance from the state? well, you tried that at zucotti park, and the state came down and sprayed pepper spray in your face, you know? you can't organize at a distance from the state especially if you're going to look at everything that's going on, you know? the pakistanis who have been hit with these drone attacks, they weren't trying to get up close to the state, the american global state intruded into their lives, and we have to actually end that.

[applause] so i'm going to take that to people, and like i say, i'm not going to be mad at them about where they were six years ago or even last year, i'm going to be like here's where you need to be looking now, here's where you need to be going, here are some principles, and you need to act on them. you know? and i think that's the approach that needs to be taken on this. [applause] >> as we take questions from the mic, i want to encourage everyone to be very concise in your question. that is, it's not necessary to give a lot of context. just ask the question. [laughter] and with that said, i'm going to ask the next question which is as a student, it's hard to find a balance between social justice issues and maintaining scholarly duties. so what are some of your tips for student activists who want to graduate? [laughter]

[applause] i added the graduation part. [laughter] >> oh, our dear brother told us, he's spending good time in the library. that was a very important lesson, i thought, that you you're here to exercise a love of wisdom and a love of learning and a love of knowledge. you won't stop there, but that's one of the forms of love that you ought to take seriously. so if you want to be a full-time activist, then become a full-time activist. but if you want to be a student who is activist who in the long run wants to be able to not only follow your own heart because you're here to find your voice -- you don't ask anybody's permission as to what you're on the earth for. you might ask for your mama's conner isation but not her permission. so you've got to decide what is your vocation, not just your profession. what is your calling, not just your career. don't tell me about your job, i

want to know about your life's task. and once you decide that, you go into the laboratory, i'm going to be a scientist, i'm going to be a doctor, i'm going to be the poet. i'm going to be a musician, i'm going to be the pharmacist. and then find time within your vocation for your activism. you see, now, if your calling is to be a full-time activist like this brother right here -- [laughter] it's a beautiful thing. but as we said, imitation is suicide. everybody can't be a full-time activist. is that right? >> not everybody, no. >> exactly, exactly. [laughter] i know i couldn't do it. i've got other things. [laughter] i got to get to the studio, get to the library, the laboratory, hit the church and the club. [applause] [laughter] hey, i got one life! one life to live! [laughter] [applause] all in the name of jesus, too. [laughter] [applause]

>> okay. um, i may not be the best one to ask that question because i never graduated. but there was actually a story to that. i got drafted about halfway through. and then by the time i got out, i could have gone back and gotten some funding to do that because even though they convicted me and sent me to jail, they tossed the conviction out after i had done the time. but at that point changing the world was my vocation. now, but i do value what i studied before i came out, and this might surprise some people because i was an engineering student who mainly studied mathematics. but one thing that i think i was able to draw from that is a certain scientific approach and

trying to draw from reality which i've tried to use in terms of going at the question of social justice. and see what i would say to people is you do have to decide what is it that you are moved to do. and you've got to do that based upon understanding reality and why it's the way that it is and, also, what could be done about it. and if that moves you to do like i did and pass on the opportunity to graduate and throw in to, you know, changing the world, then go do that. and like i said earlier, do that as well as you can. but if you're trying to balance the two, then go ahead and balance the two. what i would say to you, though, is do not allow the graduation and career to blunt you on this question of the truth.

and acting on that truth. you know? because if that's part of what is required to obtain a career, then that's a bargain you don't want to make. that's like a deal with -- and i'll say it, a deal with the devil. [applause] >> oh, yeah. [laughter] >> i knew you would get literary about it. >> yeah, we going to bring gerty in on this thing. >> we have a next question on this side, a very concise question. >> huh. concise. um, okay. my question is may i or can someone give you this thank you gift that i have for you here? >> oh, we'll grab it right now. [laughter] >> basically, this is, um, it's a music project where there's interviews and conversations with people like michelle alexander when she was on

democracy now and, yeah, naomi klein and nome shock sky. it's all sent to music. >> i have his stuff. >> that's right. and you are on that project. the conversation that you all had in harlem. >> did you bring two? >> yeah, one of my people's got it back there. but the conversation you all had in harlem in 2009, the obama ascendancy, that conversation is on there set to some music. >> that's nice. thank you. appreciate that. >> the next question is, as a 10-year-old what can i do to help the revolution? [cheers and applause] >> lord. >> okay, well, it's never too early to start. [laughter] and, again, this thing is -- no, because there is injustice out there -- >> oh, lord, yeah. >> and you don't have to be,

there's no minimum age to recognize that injustice and to reach out to others and to help to involve them. and that youthful energy that that 10-year-old has got can be put to working at things. it can help reach out to others. i talked about this thing about mass incarceration. i don't know what your skills are, but there may be ways in which you could do some drawings to help dramatize that from a very youthful perspective, you know, posing this thing of family members disappearing, why are they disappearing, why is it always happening to certain kinds of people? you can pose a lot of questions that would have broader parts of society, including older folks, like wow, you know? a 10-year-old is getting this. there's a way in which this could have big impact. so i would say get at that injustice that you see in society, dig