>> this is live coverage here on c-span2. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> other live events to tell you about why we wait for mr. huntsman. starting at 10:20 a.m. on c-span, presidential candidate newt gingrich sits down to take your phone calls and comments from dartmouth medical school in lebanon, new hampshire. mr. gingrich served in u.s. house from 1979-1999 with four of those years as speaker of the house. he finished in fourth place in last week's iowa caucuses. you can see that event live this

morning on c-span. later today, texas congressman ron paul holds a town hall meeting in durham new hampshire. he finished third in iowa and now looks to the voters in new hampshire to help him continue his campaign. that event starts today at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span, and after it is over we will take your phone calls. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i think he is you're just getting to the voting age, it

matters. you know instead of checking a box. more important now than i think ever. >> we're excited that your husband is going on. >> he does very well with a large stage. he connects. i think after seven kids. >> we are expecting former governor jon huntsman very shortly. that's his wife on the screen talking to supporters, and in new hampshire there at the new england college. some programming notes for you. today with the new hampshire primary only four days away, we are taking a look at primary victory and concession speeches in years past. today we will take you back to january 27, 2004, to hear speeches from jon kerry and

howard dean. senator kerry won that primary, 38%-26% over the former vermont governor. see both reactions this afternoon starting at 2 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> i know he is the most same, commonsense, you know, extraordinary leader as having america, you know, as you begin to see that. there is that slow substantive rise. is not going to be the candidate shooting up, shooting down. he's not a flavor of the month, he never has been. when you go with them, you stick with them. >> good morning and welcome to the final day of the college convention 2012. it is at this time my pleasure to introduce mr. sean gingrey who is a senior at coronado high school in coronado california. you have the honor of

introducing our next presidential candidate, governor jon huntsman. [applause] >> good morning. jon huntsman assert his country injuries was throughout his life. it is because of his deeply held conviction and the concept of service to country that is written about the politics as usual frame washington or jon huntsman assert as governor of the state of utah where his record was outstanding in reducing spending tactics, then in the spirit of underload courage he stepped across the partisan divide and accepted an appointment to the role of ambassador role to china. where his business acumen was matchless diplomatic skill in america's interest in the face of china's poor human rights record or governor huntsman president to campaign is defined by fiscal responsibility based on energy independence, tax and regulatory reform. as well as an approach to national security of post-cold

war realities. please join me in welcoming governor jon huntsman. [applause] >> thank you. how is everybody this morning? do we have any voters in the room? come on, by shorthand, let's see who will be voting. okay. how about over here? hands? okay. can't i just square with you all? this is the new hampshire primary, folks. this is an important event in history of this nation. you are going to get out and vote and participate next week. do you know what's going to happen quechee will be the window through which the rest of the nation is able to assess and analyze and understand. those running for the highest office in the land. do you have an awesome responsibly to get out and learn about the candidates and issues?

of course you do. i hope you don't downplay at all. i hope you get out there and make it a learning experience. but take it from an outsider, i want you all to realize the importance of this new hampshire primary event and how lucky and how fortunate all of you are to be participants in a process that is going to set a trend, and perhaps change the course of your nation's history. this is a big, big deal. now, let me get to where i stand. i'm the underdog in this race. i understand it. but do you know what else i understand? new hampshire loves an underdog. you always allow underdogs to come into the state, in the marketplace. you get them out, you assess, analyze what they have to say and you run into the process, and they do whole lot better than anyone might expect. you wake up the day up after the vote and the rest of the country looks at what you don't recognize your primary and they see the people of new hampshire

have spoken again. they know what they're talking about. that typically tends to set a trend beyond new hampshire. so, as a candidate, we have done 100, almost 160 public events in this state. no one has even come close in terms of what we have done on the ground here in new hampshire. because i see belief that you've got to get out and earn the vote. know what i mean? you got to be on the street, she can't come to town hall meetings, house parties. people want to know your heart and soul. they want to know what's inside of you. they want to know what is in your head and what you want to do for this great country. you can't twitter your way to success. you can't facebook your way to success, folks. you've got to get out and earn it. so i am betting that politics is still done the old-fashioned way in this state, and that is you have to be seen them yet be heard, you have to be felt. so we're going to put it to the test next week and i think that's going to be our benefit

or i'm excited to be as a candidate for president of united states of america, and i'm running for the simple reason. because we are about to hand down the greatest nation that ever was, the united states of america, to you. less good, more divided, less competitive, less productive, and more saddled with debt. than the america we got. and i say this isn't fair. you're getting screwed. that's not right. and i say it is up to my generation to fix it before we handed down to you. 1960 when i was born, a long time ago, we exported $3 for every $2 we imported. we own 36% of the world's gdp. science, technology, the greatest standard of living in the world. it seemed that all the nobel prize winners came from the united states.

our gdp, 25% of it, came from manufacturing. including a lot of activity right here in this state. and i look at where we sit today, 9% of our gdp is derived from manufacturing. that's unsustainable. we are handing down to the next generation a much different america than the one we got. and i say i had a choice then, as i came back from china as the united states ambassador. you can either stand on the sidelines and watch it all play out, or you can get in the arena and fight. you can get in the arena and broaden the debate and add to it because this election cycle is all about you. and it's about the country that we are about to hand over to you. so what is it my generation does? we package this thing called humanity that represents my generation, who we are. it's about our values. it's about the economy.

it's about our stand in the world. it's about our competitive this. and we give it to you but it's the best thing we have to offer i'm not happy with what we're about to hand down. and i said i'm going to do everything i can within my power to bring about change. so the america you get is the very best. and i'm convinced we have two things that we've got to do. before we handed down to you. you need to be aware of these issues because everything we're talking about here will fall into your lap. you will have to deal with at some point. we have to deficits. in this country. that we've got to fix. one is an economic deficit. it's called $15 trillion in debt. ladies and gentlemen, how did we get to this spot? $15 trillion in debt, that's not a debt problem, that's a national security problem. know what i mean? you get your debt as a percentage of you gdp to 70, 80, 90%, you just don't go anymore. you can provide jobs. you can compete in the global

marketplace effectively. that your generation we're talking about. and i say i'm not going to shipwreck the next generation with debt. we're going to deal with realistically. will put forward plans that will cut from all categories, cut from entitlements, cut from the department of defense, you can have any sacred cows, you've got to cut across the border. we have no choice. but beyond that we have to grow. we have to grow out of the hole that we find ourselves in. this is what i did as governor. you have some governors running, some people who were from congress, house of representatives said governors have to deal with growth issues. i changed my taxes in my state. we create a more hospitable and friendly regulatory environment. we went to number one in this country in terms of job growth. i want to fire the engines of growth in this nation. i know it's totally possible. china is going like this. i lived over a nation for different times so i've seen the rise of asia. icing specifically the rise of china.

china is going from a, nine, 10% economic growth per year down to maybe four or five, 6% economic growth. they are having problems in their country. inflation is going up. constant manufacturing is going up. unemployment is going up. so what happens to china? this vast country of 143 billion people when unemployment goes up? you have political uncertainty. you have risk, and the invested dollar for companies all over the world just sort of plant their dollar in china because it's on a cheap place to go is going to be saying, no, we want to find an alternative market. they will be looking around them and we in this country would be crazy if we did prepare ourselves for the future. because we're still 25% of the world market. and we still in america have the most productive worker on earth, and will for your generation. and i say as president i want to recognize this opportunity that we have to get back on her feet

for the manufacture simply. i think united states of america is on the cusp of manufacturing renaissance. i really do. we need leadership and we need ideas that will get us there. we've got to grow, expand our base, we've got to earn the ability to pay down the debt. it's the way it is done, just like business, just like a family. it's no different. we need a president who will allow us to get there. but i'll be darned if we're going to hand down to your generation the level of debt that we have in this country today. because it's like a cancer metastasizing. it's going to shipwreck the next generation and less we can get our arms around it. the second deficit that i like to spend a minute talking about is not an economic deficit. it's not like the debt we just talked about. it's a deficit of another kind. and it's a deficit we didn't have when i was your age. and i would argue that it is

just as corrosive and harmful to we as people as the economic deficit. it's called a trust deficit. because the people in this country no longer trust their institutions of power. do you know i mean? people in this country no longer trust their elected officials. help pathetic is this? we as a nation were built and founded on trust, one with another in a free society, institutions of trust. and now the greatest nation that ever was is running on empty. i say i'll be darned if we're going to pass that down to your generation. no trust. so how do you feel about getting a country that is wallowing in debt and one that lacks trust and basic civility, one towards another? i say we can do better than that as americans. we'll have to do some things first. what drives the trust problem, the trust deficit in this

nation? i look at congress and i say i know what i want to do as president. i want to lead the charge around this country that allows us to move towards term limits for congress. [applause] because i do know this and ensure many of you are learning about in your own political science classes, there's this thing called incumbency that reaches of them grabs people and gross very deep roots and makes it almost impossible for people to live congress once they get there. and i say that's not right, that's not fair. we need to free up the system every now and again. but i don't want to just talk about it. i want to lead the charge of in this country. i want to be a catalyst for change because i know it's the will of the people to bring about term limits for congress. i also want to close the revolving door which allows members of congress to file right on out to trade in other insider relationships, and their

insider information, and become lobbyists. and we wonder -- [applause] and we wonder why there's no trust and why we are cynical when we look to capitol hill. no trust in congress. i look at the executive branch, no trust, no leadership when this nation needs it most. this by -- this bipartisan support called simpson-bowles land on the president's desk, a want of plan that could have taken this nation forward on debt and spending for tax reform. goes in the garbage can. no trust. no leadership. i look at our tax code, this big complicated thing that everyone has to do with every year. no trust. if you're a lobbyist, or can afford a lobbyist, or if every

lawyer doing your bidding on capitol hill, you can get a loophole. you can get a deduction, which is completely corrupted our tax code. just get your minds around this. today in our tax code, $1,100,000,000,000 in carveouts and deductions and loopholes that impact about 7% of the population. i say nonsense. that's a weight, a drag on our economy that we can't afford at this point. but more than that it's not fair to the american people. and i want to phase out in my tax plan all of the loopholes and all of the deductions and all of the corporate welfare and all of the subsidies, and i want to say we are starting with a clean slate. that's what i do as governor. i might give you an academic dissertation. i'm a practitioner. i did this when i was governor. and i succeed in getting all the loopholes that? know, but i got a whole lot of them out. and it's a fight worth waging because i think we have to level

the playing field for our creative class in this country. and i like what that does to capitol hill in terms of draining the swamp for lobbyists. because if there's nothing to lobby for, in terms of additional loopholes or deductions, there's nothing to lobby for. and i like that outcome. i want to bring trust back to the tax code. i look at our wars abroad and i say no trust. we have been at the war on terror now for 10 years, this nation has given its all. and i just want to be frank and honest with the american people. i want to say, we've done a pretty good job with respect to afghanistan. we have run out the taliban. we have updated, dismantle al qaeda. they are now in waziristan and other sanctuaries. osama bin laden is no longer around. we've had free elections. we have helped to strengthen civil society. we have strengthened the military and the police, but do you know what? i want our troops to come home

from afghanistan. because -- [applause] because i don't want to be nation building in southwest asia, particularly at a time when this nation's so desperate needs to be built, do you know i mean? if our nation is weak, it's our court this week and crumbling as it is today, you can't project the values that make this nation so unique. i have lived overseas several times. i have seen this nation when it projects the values of goodness. and it moves people. it changes history. it changes events. those values of liberty and democracy and human rights, and free markets. nobody doesn't like the united states. today we're week. we are not projecting those guys and i say you can't have a foreign policy. you can have a national security strategy when you are crumbling at home. i want to square with the american people on this, too. afghanistan is not our nation's

future. it's not your future. iraq is not your future. our future is how prepared we are as a people, all of us, to rise up and to meet head-on the competitive challenges of the 21st century. that's your century. that's about economics, and that's about education. and that's going to play out over the pacific ocean in countries that i have lived in before. i'm here today that if we don't get our act together here at home, because i've seen with these other countries have done to prepare for the rest of the 21st century. if we don't get our act together at home folks, we'll see the end of the american century during your lifetime's. that's not the legacy that i'm going to leave behind. no trust on our foreign policy. i want to get trust back into our foreign policy. i look at wall street. no trust. we have banks that are either too big to fail.

i say we can fix our taxes, we can move towards greater energy independence, we can launch a manufacturing renaissance. and if we're left with banks that are too big to fail we are setting ourselves up for another bailout. a disaster. we have been there. we have done that. ladies and gentlemen, we are not going to do it again. [applause] so we need a president who's going to be able to say banks, if you are too big to fail, you are too big. because capitalism without failure isn't capitalism. we don't want a bunch of banks looking like public utilities, which is what we are getting. so we have six big banks. imagine this. and combined they have assets that are worth two-thirds of our nation's gdp. six of them. $9.5 trillion. so if they get infected by the flu that is going around here in your. and economically they get sick,

they start to go down, they can go down because it will take all of us within. so we have to bail them out because if that is not right, that is not there for the taxpayers in this country to have this implied taxpayer bailout guarantee for these big banks. as president, i'm going to see we will right size you but if you're too big to fail, you are too big. i want you to decipher if you get sick and if you have problems, you can feel, you don't take all of us down with you. no trust in wall street. i want to get that restored. so ladies and gentlemen, i am who i am. i have a track record that i want you to look at as voters. it is what it is. i'm not going to stand up and banter. i'm not going to stand up like a lot of my republican colleagues and signs of silly pledges. i'm not going to do that. [applause]

we received the endorsement of about half the papers in this state. we just got endorsement of "the boston globe." we are moving forward. i feel very good about where we said in new hampshire because i know this state loves an underdog. we have worked hard. we have shared a message that i feel in my heart and soul. now we need to make sure we can bring it home on tuesday. i'm an optimist about where this country is going about your generation. because i've seen it from 10,000 miles away in china. and if you walk the streets of beijing, they are full of injury -- energy because they're growing at eight, nine, 10% of growth a year even though that is coming down. and you look at this country, from 10,000 miles away. the greatest nation that ever was, that united states of america. and we are in a funk. do you know i mean? we are disputed as people. this isn't who we are. we have to get out of the hole. but in order to get out of the

hole we need leadership and we need confidence. we need to focus on your generation, a driving, a driving goal that says we will not leave a broken country to you. [applause] but here's what i am an optimist and why all of you ought to be optimists. i've lived around, i've seen a lot of other countries, and we have some things that are pretty remarkable in this nation. and you need to keep hold of him during your generation and make sure they're strong, because they set us apart in all the world. and here's what some of them are. we have stability in this country. we pick a papers, read about instability everywhere. we have stability in this country. we are able to gather and have three conversations and dialogue and disagree. and we can do with a sense of stability. we have rule of law. we are still a rules-based system. we have the longest surviving

constitution in the world. we even have private property rights right here in new hampshire. we have the greatest colleges and universities anywhere in the world. never doubt that. and people flock here from every corner of the world to attend them. that's a good they are. and we have a creative class in this country, the finest innovators, freethinkers and entrepreneurs. and there are engines of growth in this nation and right now they're sitting on their hands because they don't have any confidence in where we're headed as a country. and we have a pretty brave and courageous armed forces. do you know i mean? and i as president will not allow the men and women from the theaters of combat, the front lines to come back to the unemployment lines. [applause] they're going to come back, your

generation, many of them, to a sense of dignity and respect and gratitude. do you know what else, they will come back to jobs. because like the greatest generation before them, your grandparents, the greatest generation, and who we built this nation during another time of need, the new greatest generation, and you'll be part of that, will come together as americans and we will rebuild this nation once again. no more division, no more parking ourselves in alleyways and cul-de-sacs because we're all americans first and foremost. never forget that. i don't care what neighborhood you come from, what your point of origin is, where you go to school. we are all americans, first and foremost. and as we proceed as people, in problem solving and making this nation the very best it can be, i don't want you to ever forget that. we are americans first and foremost, and that carries with it the idea that we show a

little respect for one another. we find good in other people. this thing called humanity that i talked about earlier that we're passing down to you, it's all of who we are. it's only had to give as people. there's no more. that sense of humanity is who we are. our values, our respect for one another. our economy, our standing in the world, our schools are that's what we're passing down to you. that's what i want to fix and that's what i want to get right. i want your vote. i want your help. do you know what else? i want your trust. because when you ask somebody for a vote, guess what you are asking for? you are asking for their trust. and there's not a more important thing, a more valuable thing that one human being can give to another than trust. i will work hard. i will never ever discount the importance of the trust that i'm asking people people for. that's the vote. thank you so very much for being

here. it's been an honor and privilege to be with you. thank you. [applause] thank you, thank you. thank you. thank you all very much. questions? yes, sir. >> unlike most a young people, one thing i don't trust our corporations. and your policies will attract more corporations i don't think is a bad thing. but your plans to ramp bp and dodd-frank will make them unaccounted how do you think your policy, especially towards making corporations unaccountable are in the best interest of the country? >> good question, thank you. corporations need accountability. there's no question about that. the problem i have with dodd-frank, you know, sometimes

when they have problems in this country, and we have had some, we overreach. you know, sometimes as a parent i will sink in because i have a daughter over, abby, stand up. just wave of. [applause] if you want to read some really interesting things or see some interesting videos, she is part of my three daughters who make up the jon2012girls. so if you go on tonight, you could watch some of their funny videos. quite humorous. but i mentioned that because sometimes parents, and this is maybe too simple an analogy, we overreach when you have a problem, may be a son or a daughter, you overreach. and then you kind of come back to a more comfortable spot. we have had problems in this country, and i believe the knee-jerk reaction, the immediate impulse is always to overreact, and then we find that we've gone too far.

and we need to come back to center. with dodd-frank, so here's the deal with dodd-frank. i was, i was thinking a few weeks ago and i went to post a link is a diner which is great for all the president had been to linda stein and they said huntsman come to the first candidate who is at 90 done. i said that's great. i like our chances. that says something. i went to the counter and i sat down with a guy named jayme. small business? he repairs motorcycles. and i suppose this is going. and he said not so good. i want to let a person or two and i can't. he said i want to get a loan from the bank, and they can get a line of credit. he said and i have no debt. he said what's the deal with this? he said they're asking for a coverage requirement, a ratio coverage requirement that is higher than i've ever heard of before. he said if i could cover the

racial requirement, i would need a loan to begin with. so we are frozen. the economy is frozen. and i say, dodd-frank striking again. that's what it is done to the community banks. and i said the other part of dodd-frank that i don't like, and i'm not sure anyone of your generation would like this, we've got, we've got wall street protesters out there who have some sensible messages that they are imparting to the american people. one of which is banks that are too big to fail, dodd-frank gives aid and comfort to banks that are too big to fail. and i said is that what you want to inherit? you want to inherit a bunch of banks that look like public utilities that don't serve the needs of this economy? i say thank you, no. we're always going to fight, and i found as governor, there's always a balancing act between rules and regulations and free market systems. we've always relied on a free market system, creativity, to kind of before. and i think that's the reason we

are as just over 300 people with a pretty sizable landmass, pretty good natural resources in this country, bordered by the two most untenable borders of all the atlantic ocean from the pacific ocean, why we have prospered over the years. we have allowed a free society to flourish your fellow always require a balance. it's never going to be either or. will always have to manage the right regulation, allowing the right freedom to prevail so that the creative class can do what it's always done in this country. thank you very much for the question. yes, sir right back here. >> thank you so much. thanks much for being with us. >> thank you for being here. >> it's my chance to say thank you to this college for this great event and allowing me to come to my question for a want to qualify is about medicare. and i'm sure it's about 200,000 people here in a hatch on medicare. but i'm also concerned about my children, your children, what will be there in the future. be have some plans for putting

it on a stronger financial footing for the young people here today, for my children, your children? and do something about the rising health costs? think you. >> thank you listen, whether it is a medicare or whether it's probably the number one financial challenge at the department of defense, even the we don't think about it in these terms, health care costs, health care costs. in the, $3 trillion industry. that's the size of the gdp of france, 3 trillion bucks. and i was reminded when i went to dartmouth in chicago, medical center, the other day, you know, in a room full of doctors and researchers, you know, very informed people. i was reminded of the $3 trillion that we look at and health care year over year, about 40% of that, maybe higher, is need is superfluous spending. washington. and i say this is not, we can

talk of health care reform, but into we are ready to take the additional step and say how do we get the excess cost out of the system, that's what is eating us alive. and as excess costs are resulting in the double-digit inflationary increases we're seeing year over year over year, and whether small business and whether the pentagon is sank you know, i have two boys are beginning their careers in the united states navy so they are on a different health plan right now, tricare, and i see what they are doing. and health care costs are impacting everybody across the board. and i submit to be smart about how we rid the system of access support for his cause. i want to get to the point in time and i think implications of medicare are very real. to where patients can visit the docs offices with some information and some level of transparency about what is being offered. they can choose what procedures are available to them. and what the cost and locations are. when was a lasting walk into a docs office, you had a doctor

explained the procedure and the cause. nobody knows what health care costs are. not the patient, not the doctors right away. that thing has to be coupled, that better knowledge of real cause with an ax -- insurance program that does what insurance companies are supposed to do they're supposed to take a risk and are supposed to offer us a affordable accessible policies which they are not doing. and i see this is the other big part of the problem. we have a very limited marketplace when it comes to insurance offerings. and i say this nation is just beginning the conversation we need to have in terms of getting the insurance companies to do what they're supposed to do, to provide real options, coverage options for our people that are affordable and that are accessible. we just don't have that today. we worked very hard interested in trying to get us there. we looked at our 15% uninsured in our state.

the largest subsection was the young immortal population. 18-35 years of age. we will never die, why do we need insurance? and even if we wanted it, there's nothing we can afford. we work very hard and getting an affordable policy, kind of a stripped-down catastrophic policy, very tough to do with the insurance company. got something. time will tell if this was an effective new. i believe it will prove to be an effective move, but if you want to buy an affordable policy, just for example, in that state, in our state or in another that does the same thing, you can't because it is across the state border transaction. i want to drop the barriers that make the insurance sector compete. they are not near where they need to be in terms to make that possible. things like personalized medicine. i believe in years to come when we look at medicare for the next generation will make the

delivery of health care and the cost of health care far different than they are today. thanks to the human genome project and the molecular biology that has been a over the years, the way that we're able to assess and analyze human disease, and tackle human disease early as opposed to late, and assess and analyze an individual based upon their dna, what you have a predisposition for. so you're able to anticipate disease before the very end when he becomes extremely expensive, and you can take preventive and preemptive measures. that's for health care is going longer-term, and i think it's a very, very exciting future. i'm an optimist when i look at the. and i say finally, you know, things like and of life care where it becomes very, very expensive. there should be a much different way of delivering that kind of care at home as opposed to in very, very expensive hospital and institutions. we need a whole lot more of those kind of options that i

believe will bring down cost of such along with saying in my head is a lot of thinking about the holocaust side of medicare and health care generally because we will keep having this conversation but at the end of the day we will find yourself right back with his basic premise, and that is, you know, we've got to do with costs if we're going to do anything about real health care reform longer-term that will help our people. yes or. >> thanks for being, i think, the only republican candidate for the presidency to actually believe in science. [applause] that's quite a revolutionary thought. >> no your water boils at 212 degrees fahrenheit whether you like it or not. [laughter] having had the experience you've had in china, and the environmental degradation that china is experiencing as a

result of both its growth as well as its energy needs, i would like to take a moment to talk about science and our energy needs as it relates to the environment and possible economic benefit that the united states through innovation could be able to achieve in the years ahead. i would also like you to answer the question with the belief that corporations are people, thank you. >> in the, the only other time i was asked that question was on the stephen colbert show. you walk out on the stephen colbert show, you don't know what you're going to get. you run a huge risk, and i got the same question. i would just let everyone ponder that one for a moment about corporations being people. on the energy side, first of all i lived in beijing, which is the most polluted city in the world. they say there are too. probably deli in beijing. so you wake up some mornings, if

you can imagine this, you can't see across the street. you couldn't see across this room, that's how bad it is. now, there are traditional pollutants as opposed to the co2. but they just dumb of the play. to the have challenges in china with respect to clean up their act? they have enormous challenges in terms of creating truly 21st century cities. but getting there in terms of building other infrastructure, little things like impenetrable traffic, pollution that causes people to get sick and to stay inside, serious, serious problems. i think based on science and on innovation and technology, and basic research that i believe ought to be sponsored by the united states government, i think department of energy basic research like i believe a nationalist is critically important drivers of growth and innovation that we as taxpayers must continue to fund.

and from that i think inevitably we will find that we draw more from the sun and wind. there's no question about that. the only question is, how long does it take to get there? we can't force technology to the marketplace based on subsidies. we are already learning the hard lessons today. they just don't work. but eventually science and technology will take us in that direction. which is good. meantime, we have to decide what kind of bridge we build from today into that inevitable future. and i say okay, we have some options. we wake up to the reality in this country that we have more gas than saudi arabia has oil. i say, come on, how stupid are we? when are we going to at least take advantage of something that is cleaner, more accessible, and i understand the fracking part. the industry folks have to prove that it is safe and that they

have dealt with issues that they've encountered before, and american people can believe in a. but if you believe this is a resource that will serve our needs longer-term. and i believe, better for the air, and the national security implications are enormously positive. why do i say that? because the imported oil now, 50 plus% back -- 50 plus percent, that aren't necessary reading for our success come you look at what we are paying for gas at the pump. and we saved three bucks, for books, whatever does. take another look. take a look at what we as taxpayers pay on a fully loaded bases. so the deployment of troops, keeping the seat is open for the importation of oil, the storage and handling, based on what the milken institute as outlaws and scooby doo a good job with respect to content analysis, 13 bucks a beer. i say come on, who are we

fooling? those days are gone. let's see what we can do here on our own. eyed drove in natural gas car when i was governor. i never thought i would be a natural gas car driver. iran into an occupant in our state is that i would like to convert your black suburban to natural gas to i said i do know you could do the trick is output to take in the back. i paid out of pocket come when i'm away. it start a conversation in our state, gee, that crazy governor, what's that all about? at lead people to talk alternative fuels because we had an air problem can believe it or not come in utah in the greater dish was really bad air quality during peak winter and peak summer. and people cared about that. he became a health issue. so it started a conversation about alternative fuels which led to this, we have no infrastructure. we have no outlets. and so i went to the public utility and i said you can either be ahead of this discussion or behind, but i think you'll want to be ahead of this discussion. i don't want to get stuck

300 miles in the middle of the desert because i can't find a felt station for natural gas but if we're going to take this natural gas revolution seriously, just use one product, we need to build out infrastructure. it's very real. so what i want to do my first day as president, or thereabouts, i want to say this one product monopoly that always favors oil is going. that's the only option we have these days. if you drive, you know, a card that is fired by gas or diesel, you do okay. one product monopoly. i say this is hardly where this nation needs to be longer-term. and i want to go to the federal trade commission and i want to go to the senate judiciary committee, i say we are going to break this one apart. we're going to do to this one product distribution monopoly called oil what we did to broadcast communicate and back in early 1970s. you all to remember that time. but when i grip we had about three options on television.

now we have a whole lot more, and many in the media benefit from what was done in terms of opening up the marketplace. and i say i want to do for this one product monopoly what was done with broadcast commute haitian, and i want to make it so we can draw from all kinds of different products. i think that's the kind of energy independence that i would envision, starting with the infrastructure that is so desperately need. realizing full well that we'll convert to transportation. we will convert to power and electricity. today is only using 19% of natural gas. they want to do more but they also want a president who used the bully pulpit and say, here's what we're going, we're not looking back. in inevitably we will draw from the sun and a lot more for wind, but we have a bridge to bill that will take our people into the future while create jobs, improving the air, and addressing national security implications. thank you.

[applause] we will take one more and then we will let you go. yes, ma'am. [inaudible] >> i think that is self-evident that i don't think that needs to be answered of course corporations are not people. [applause] who would say such an outlandish thing? i can't imagine anyone running for president who would say something like that. [inaudible] >> some supporters of ron paul have put a video out shows you speaking chinese, and portraying you as chairman mao. i wonder if you have seen this video, and what does it say about a country that learning, to speak a foreign language fluently becomes a tool, an instrument to be used against you? and secondly, is it still possible to be a centrist politician in the u.s.? why is it, do you have an approach that all of the other candidates are just clawed their

way further right and you're the centrist? wide is the centrist the underdog? thank you. >> unico some people like to call center something else but, you know, what? i do what i do based on a few of this country and its future. in a sense that we have to be real, we have to draw from ideas that are doable and not so outlandishly stupid that, you know, the create a lot of insight into your party, and never, never in a thousand is can it get done. i'm a realist at the end of the day. people can comment whatever they want to unrealistic i do like to spend a lot of time posturing and being one thing during the preprimary phase and then during the primary phase and during the general, i'm just going to be who i am from start to finish. i'm willing to say that during the primary phase or preprimary phase, if you don't like your hair on fire, if you don't sign those silly pledges and don't have all these hoops moments,

that you're not going to get as much airtime. people will not talk about you as much and, therefore, you are not going to go up in terms of name recognition or stand in the poll. that's okay. because at the end of the day this is a nation full of common sense folks are still enjoy watching the circus play out and all of the political theater, until they have to stare down the ballot box which everybody is about to do. then when they stare down the ballot box they have to ask the question, you know, they would say i enjoyed the political feud i've enjoyed the circus acts. it's been like watching survivor on television. i now have to actually make it iis a awesome who could be president of united states of america, someone who is a background they can draw from, and a bill to bring people together, a temperament and a vision for where this country ought to go going for dick and i think that's going to inform a whole lot of decisions when they approach the ballot box, starting right here in new hampshire. this is a primary. it's the real deal.

with respect to the ron paul video, i saw just parts of it yesterday. first of all, it's just stupid. second of all, yeah, i have lived overseas for times. i believe that our world tends to be a small interconnected place, much more so than we think. i speak chinese. of course, i do. if someone wants to poke fun at me for speaking chinese, that's a big. what i object to is bringing forward pictures and videos of my adopted daughters and suggesting there is some sinister motive there. i have a daughter from china. who was abandoned, at two months of age and left at a vegetable market. ago by the police and sent to an orphanage. no future, no hope, nothing to look forward to. now she is in my family. she is one of the greatest human beings i know. [applause]

she's also a 12 years old, my senior foreign policy adviser. [laughter] i have a second daughter who was born in india in a very rural village south, and left for dead the day she was born. and luckily she was picked up before the animals got hurt. and she was sent to a catholic orphanage the first day, and spent a year there, was raised, and now she's in my family. so i have two little girls who are a daily reminder that there are a lot of kids in this world who don't have the brakes that you do. and who face a very, very uncertain future that lacks health care, that lacks the ability to dream and plan, and any sense of upward mobility. now, these two girls are on the presidential campaign trail.

i say, how cool is that? thank you all very much for having me here. thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> republican president hopeful john huntsman speaking at new england college in new hampshire. making headlines today is that "the boston globe" has endorsed john huntsman saying he offers the republican party an opportunity to quote renew itself. the papers published in the state that front runner mitt romney governed from 2003-2007, and comparing the two governors, "the boston globe" said their economic and foreign policy records stand in sharp contrast. later today on c-span, texas congressman ron paul holds a town hall meeting in durham, new hampshire. he finished third in iowa and now looks to the voters in new hampshire to help him continue his campaign. that event starts this evening at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span, and after it's over we will take

your phone calls. also today with the new hampshire primary only four days a week am we are taking a look at primary victory and concession speeches from years past. today we will take you back to january 27, 2004, to hear speeches from john kerry and howard dean. senator kerry won that primary 38-26%, over the former vermont governor. that's this afternoon starting at 2 p.m. eastern on c-span3. [inaudible conversations] >> thanks for coming. >> nice to meet you. >> c-span's road to the white

house coverage of politics takes you on the campaign trail with the candidates. >> how are you going to get pass the stalemate? >> watch c-span's coverage of the new hampshire primary and c-span television and on a website, c-span.org. ♪ ♪ i was born free ♪ >> next in a supreme court justice clarence thomas returns to his hometown at pinpoint georgie to deliver the keynote address at the unveiling ceremony for historical marker. he was joined by fan and friend at this event. that took place in november. it's half an hour. >> now, we will get to the meat of the program. we have a historical marker which was erected yesterday morning which we will unveil

after services. but this next guy, doctor todd groce is pretty much responsible for helping us attain the marker. so he will come and give us a greeting on half of the historical marker foundation. [applause] >> thank you all, and thank you, mr. into equity fund and look at this broken today if i could just member the name haynes, i could remember most of the people who are on the program. [laughter] on behalf of the george struggles aside, let me welcome you and thank you for being here today, and also to say congratulations to the pin point association are receiving on this historical marker and on the great work you have done to help preserve and tell the story of this community. i am delighted to be industry.

i have wanted to come apart long time, but there's another reason why i'm thrilled to be here. my greatest fear was not that i get about you and find that the market wasn't here, or that justice thomas hadn't gotten here on time, or that he was even passionate migrator would be i would be standing outside. [laughter] so i am thrilled to be inside of this church. [laughter] the georgia historical society is the independent statewide institution that is responsible for collecting and examining and teaching georgia history. we go about doing that for a whole the right of ways, but one of the most important ways that we do that is to the historical marker program, which we have operated since 1998. ..

>> the diversity of georgia's history was not represented in the historical marker program, and we have worked very, very hard to tell the story of all the people of georgia. we have put up over 200 markers in the past dozen years. they are all over the state of georgia. they represent the stories of all the people of georgia, and one of the things that we tried to operate and to live by and to operate our programs by is something that a wise man once told to me. he said how will the future ever be as it ought to be if we don't

tell the past as it really was? [applause] so, so with that i want to say again congratulations to the georgia historical society, we're delighted to be a part of this and to have been able to approve this program, and thank you all for being here today. [applause] [background sounds] >> okay. we are now to a part of the program that is pretty special to me personally. we have in our presence the honorable clarence thomas, supreme court justice, first

cousin. [laughter] [applause] and dr. lamar haynes, buster, son. [applause] so without further ado, we'll them come in that order. [applause] >> well, thank you, cousin -- [laughter] that's probably half the people here. [laughter] first of all, it's an honor to be here. i have never actually spoken

from this pulpit, never had any reason to. um, but i appreciate you all being here. when i left, it's hard for people to believe, but we all are contemporaries, we all grew up, we were just reminiscing that we were all born within months of each other in 1948. and a lot of us -- [laughter] someone said when we talk about nerve, are we saying that he got on your nerves or did he have a lot of nerve? [laughter] and i said he had both. [laughter] i just wish that samuel langhorne clemens had been here, mark twain had been here instead of writing about the adventures of kids on the missouri river.

he could have written about the adventures in these woods. [laughter] huck finn is nothing compared to this. [laughter] i was just passing those canes out there and, boy, i said, you know, we could make some really good plumpers out of those. [laughter] that's really interesting. nerves. but at any rate, i'd like to thank you all for being here, my wife, my mother, my sister, my cousins. there's just so many of you. i, when i left pinpoint, again, it was serendipity because andy's house burnt down. and we went into savannah. not far, actually, from where we were last night. over on west duffy. which was replaced by frazier homes, of course. which is i don't know what's happening with that. but, um, i'd always hoped when i left here as you go through life, it's a long, long, slow

process even the process of learning standard english. someone asked me recently when i had gotten comfortable with english, when i could think in standard english. i said i think it was the 980s. -- 1980s. [laughter] it took that long. it's a long, slow process. but i'd always hoped when i left that by doing the right things and living the right way i would bring honor to those who have been such an important part of my life. um, i'd always hoped to bring honor to pinpoint. when i got my driver's license, i used to make a beaten path here to pinpoint. [laughter] when i was at st. john's, minor seminary over on the isle of hope, i would get a sand fly to help tutor and didn't realize that a lot of those kids were my blood relatives. and the irony, it's interesting, that then the, um, mrs. lula

kemp's offspring also works at the supreme court. and i think it's her great, great grandson or great, great, great grandson, i don't know, but she came over here to bring me into the world in 1948. and you talk about gnats, you haven't seen gnats. [laughter] there are no gnats compared to what they used to be. [laughter] i'll tell you, there was not air-condition and pest control, a lot of people wouldn't be living down here. [laughter] somehow we've figured out how to make some smoke out of old rags -- [laughter] so that was not a problem. really the gnats were looking for help. [laughter] but in any case, um, i'd like the thank all of you again for being here. i'd like to thank the georgia historical society for today,

and i'd particularly like to also thank the pinpoint betterment association. >> amen. >> and the haynes and nerve and everyone who actually kept talking about saving pinpoint. i was never in a position to do anything, and i really, quite frankly, anything i've done was just what i said, just try to live my life in a way to bring honor. but today is a long way from the reception pinpoint received when i told someone years ago when i was nominated that i was from pinpoint, and the response was that i was lying because there was no such place as pinpoint. [laughter] and i think that we all knew there was such a place as pinpoint. those of us who were born here, for us, pinpoint will always be home. [inaudible conversations]

>> as long, you know, i've been all over the country and some other places in the world, but pinpoint is always home. i am a son of pinpoint. i played on pinpoint road, it was undeveloped and unpaved back then. and we thought it was a big thrill when the plow came down because the road, all the sand was gone, then you could really run. [laughter] you saw pieces of snake too. [laughter] i don't know what the fascination with snakes was, but we were, but we loved it. then we would hear -- it made it easier when the road was plowed to roll rims and old tires down the road -- >> [inaudible] >> and pull those trays that we used to pull down there. [laughter] then we all went, we walked down pinpoint road to catch the school bus up here. the big kids, i only did that for half a year, but you went

with the big kids. they would hold your hand and, of course, you're a little boy, so you kind of run in the ditch, and you're run anything the puddles and things like that. and we all went to haven home school. >> amen. >> that was wonderful. went with emma may and nerve, when nerve went to school. [laughter] but pinpoint, my memories of being out here are just wonderful, wonderful memories. but when we moved to savannah in 1954, that was quite different. i went to florence street school. i had no cousins there. it wasn't like pinpoint. that's a far different life. and my own memories of living over there on the west side is that was just horrible and quite, quite lonely. but here it was so different. adults were hard working people, good people, and i always come back to that word, just good people.

they made do with what they had. you rarely heard anybody complain. in the evenings they were knitting nets or working in a garden or working on an old house or a motor that wasn't doing right, repairing something. they lived off the water and off the land. so what we saw here in this world was sufl -- self-sufficiency and decency and goodness and kindness. the only glimpse i saw and remember of the outside world were the blimps going over or the old planes that would be going against the hunter air force base, we were in their landing pattern. for us as children, and we proudly remember this, heaven was hearing that put, -- putt, putt, putt of the ice cream man coming down pinpoint road. [laughter] boy, there was another memory i always had, and that was claiming the dasher.

[laughter] you had died and gone to heaven. and then other people who had not churned would try to inflict themselves on you. [laughter] so you really wore a shirt so you had all that ice cream. that was absolutely heaven. [laughter] then we had those adventures of walking along the little beach on the creek, diamond causeway was not there, so we could hunt, walk along the beach there out of sight of our parents in the crab factory or in the oyster house and hunt fiddler crabs. and, boy, that was always interesting. [laughter] we'd go down to the creek, and we would catch minnows in cans or in jars using old crab -- [inaudible] but i've often wondered in

coming back here over the years who came before us. >> amen. >> who were here? um, what did those live oak trees see? what would they say now? where did they come from? but there was no book, there were no stories, people would tell you what they knew, but no one had recorded it. no one had written it down. last, a few years ago i had an opportunity to visit over to ossabah with the wonderful assistance of the island foundation. that then connected all the dots for me. if you ever have a chance, go over there. it is where we began in the 1760s and lived there for over a century. until we came over here. um, i would encourage you to do that. it was the beginning of the

sentence for me. i now knew where we were from. >> amen. >> but that's true of the people over on hilton head, that's true of the people on ossabah, who used to be there. people down in harris and all along the coast here. we have that history, and i am -- not many have taken note of us back here. not many have taken note of that history. it's not a part of a great battle, it's not some great book of philosophy or metaphysics or book of mathematics. it's just us. and like people at this level, you come and you go. and look at the people who were over at hilton head. they are forgotten. and so those of us who go over there, our hearts bleed because we know what we had in common with them. same thing if you go down to

jackal island or you go down to fernandina beach, we all know. though pinpoint mattered to us, though, there were few others who either knew or cared about this place. in fact, there are very few who knew about it. as i've indicated earlier. and i watched painfully as places like hilton head simply disappeared. or evaporated into progress. and were soon, as i said, forgotten. but some worked to make sure that this did not happen here. and as i mentioned before, the pinpoint betterment association has dedicated itself to preserving the best of what has happened on pinpoint. so that it is not forgotten. and my hat is off to them. again, as i said to them and i felt horrible when they asked me what could i do and my answer

was uniformly, there's nothing i can do. but pray and hope that someone comes along. and as my cousin said, the hope that there would be a miracle one day. dr. barbara fertig, i'd like to thank you because you have devoted much of your life and your professional career to recording the history and the culture -- [applause] i could talk to you because when it seemed that no one else cared about it or cared about getting it right and you devoted yourself to recording and listening to the people here. you weren't trying to put it into a preconceived narrative. you weren't trying to make us

victims of anything. as you said to me, this is quintessentially american. you were here before the revolutionary war. we were here before the civil war. we've seen all the ups and downs of this country. and you've tried not to give it your gloss, but leave it as it was; pure and unchanged culture of pinpoint. i thank you for that. [applause] i deeply appreciate the georgia historical society for recognizing and commemorating what this small community has meant to so many of us and to accept it and to recognize it as part of the state of georgia and the united states of america which was something we'd all worked to be a part of. i'd like to thank emma lee owens

and also wish you a happy birthday -- [applause] emma lee owens is from texas, but she has understood almost from the beginning, as the doctor has, that this has to remain as it is, not as others would want it to be. and she is the one who has worked diligently and indefat ig my on the pinpoint heritage museum, and it is wonderful. again, i feel almost guilty even talking about it since you all did the work and you all were involved. i'd like to thank my good friend in absentia, my friend harlan crowe, who against my better advice insisted that he would preserve the heart of this community from the bulldozer's blade.

dr. fertig, you remember meeting him, and i told you what i said about so many of the people here; he's a good man. um, if i were him, i would not have done it because people, um, insist on ulterior motives, and they come up with their own narratives. people can't do things for goodness. um, my grandfather used to often make us drop vegetables off to people's houses when we had too much. for no other reason than it was the right thing to do. how many people have dropped fish off to our houses? how many people who said i've got a mess of shrimp, you want some? >> come on, brother. >> how many people said i've got an extra quart of oysters, do you want -- or i killed a deer, but i can only use half. do you want a shoulder? we've all been there, every one of us. it's the same thing. it's a different thing.

finally, i would like to thank the -- in absentia again -- all who havelied such remarkable lives here at the edge of the water, the edge of society and the edge of savannah. many of them rest right out here. >> amen. >> many of them are in unmarked graves someplace, many of them have moved away and drifted into the oblivion of anonymity. they showed so many of us as little kids with the pot bellies running down this road -- [laughter] how to work. [laughter] >> you couldn't have been out here if you didn't have a pot belly. [laughter] but they showed us all how to work and survive when there seemed to be little hope and little reason to do so.

um, it is what has happened here and in so many places like pinpoint that showed the best about people and -- in some of the worst conditions offered in life. and they did some of the best things in those worst conditions. and they lived as good people. the conditions do not determine the character of the people who live there. >> amen. [applause] you know, in a sense today the events of the day are miraculous. um, you know, you said in the video somebody had to work a miracle. you meant it. somebody had to work a miracle. you know? and our conversation somebody, somebody. and we expected nobody. somebody has to work a miracle.

um, the -- somehow there has been a miracle here. um, in a sense this is a part of that miracle. to commemorate and remember the spirit, the values and the legacy of those who once lived here with dignity. that's what i remember. dignity. condition. i remember as i studied in college people tried to make it seem as though a house or the clothes you wore or the money you made or the degrees you received determined whether or not you lived with dignity. dignity did not come with those things. dignity preceded those things. or as we say at the court sometime, it is antecedent. this is a dignified, good place.

um, perhaps by remembering them we can merit a second miracle, um, and restore those values and that spirit to pinpoint and elsewhere that kept us going. you all know and i know, those of you who lived here, that we have lost something. that people talk about what we don't have. i think about what we once did have. [applause] that's what -- so it is my hope and perhaps the hopes of those who are here that we restore some of those values and some of those principles that have made it possible for us to survive in some very, very difficult times. and perhaps these same values will allow others to prosper in

a different time. but for today let us just savor this miracle. >> amen. >> unlike so many similar communities that are gone and forgotten, pinpoint has a chance to survive. and to be remembered as part of the history of the state of georgia and of the united states of america. and that is the way it should be. thank you all. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> calling all the ancestors. ♪ calling all the ancestors. do you feel them? they are here! they are not in the ground anymore! they are on, over us.

we feel them lifting us up as they did in the days of africa. bring them here today as we honor them, as we honor them. we cannot honor ourselves without those ancestors. keep calling them. call them in your hearts, call them back and forth across the middle passage as they came from africa. ♪ calling all the ancestors. ♪ calling all the ancestors. [inaudible conversations] ♪ calling all the ancestors. ♪ calling all the ancestors. [inaudible conversations] ♪ calling all the ancestors. thank them! be here for us, be here for

them. >> amen. >> thank you. >> thank you. [applause] >> as we honor our elders, as we honor our ancestors, we also honor our young. we're going to ask -- [inaudible] to come forward to read the marker. >> pin point was settled in 893 by former slaves -- [inaudible] founded in pin point in 1897 -- [inaudible]

ossabaw -- >> we go live now to capitol hill for a news conference with house minority leader nancy pelosi on the u.s. economy and extending the payroll tax cuts. this is live coverage on c-span2. >> we are ready to work, and we just can't wait. i think that what we heard this morning in the jobs report is an indication that the president's proposals are working, his program is taking hold. and we believe that our republican colleagues are doing a tremendous disservice to the american people by continuing to vacation when the foundation for moving an agenda seemed to be solid and should be built upon. and we democrats are here ready

to work, ready to make sure that we build stability in the lives of the american people. our conferees are all here in washington looking for their republican colleagues so that they can develop a proposal to extend the tax, payroll tax cut for the american people and do so in such a way that certainty and stability will be built into the lives of the american people. 160 million americans are at jeopardy of not having a continued tax cut. we democrats believe that middle income americans are deserving of this tax cut, but they are also deserving of certainty. and that's why our colleagues are here. as you notice, we were just shut

down and not allowed to speak on the floor when we were told that we are in session. and we went to the floor to work. but we were not allowed to do the people's work. and so, um, my colleagues are here with me today, and i would like now to yield to our illustrious leader who has come back from vacation to bring us democrats here to washington so we can do the people's work. leader pelosi. >> thank you very much, assistant leader clyburn. thank you for going to the floor to call for the conferees to meet to give a payroll tax cut to 160 million americans, to assure and reassure millions of americans who are out of work

through no fault of their own that they will have unemployment benefits and to tens of millions of our seniors that they will be able to see their doctor under medicare. this certainty gives people confidence. these measures will inject demand into the economy because those who receive the tax cut and those who receive the unemployment benefits need the money, will spend the money, inject demand, create jobs. it's good for the economy, it's good for america's families. we were told with great vehemence yesterday that the congress was in session. that's why we went to the floor today to call upon the conferees to get to work. the american people are crying out for jobs, they want us to work together. we can do that. i don't know what the republicans are afraid of. where are they? they're telling us that we're late in december, so they can't be here in january? what is this, one month on, one

month off? the american people want jobs. we have a job to do, we can't wait. as the leader said, the president's american jobs act has given confidence to people. already the economy is responding to his leadership in that regard, and with the hope that we will continue our work in a bipartisan fashion and in a timely fashion to extend the tax cut, the unemployment benefits and the seniors' ability to see their doctors for the rest of the year. there's no reason, tell me why, how can we explain to the american people why the conferees are not here to do their work even if the leadership does not want the congress to be here doing the people's work. one year and one day ago the republicans took, were sworn in as the majority in the congress of the united states. great privilege. we can associate with what a great privilege it was to do the people's work. one year later have they tired

of it? one year later we're working five days in the month of january when the american people desperately need us to take positive action for job creation. i'm very proud of our conferees, some with us right here now. all of them here this week to get the job done. scores of our members came from across the country to urge congress to get moving on the conference report hoping that we could be in session to have some exchange of ideas on this subject. but evidently, the republicans think that the needs of the american people can wait. we can't wait. now i'm pleased to yield to the distinguished vice chair of our -- chair of our caucus, john larson of connecticut. >> to underscore the urgency, meeting with ed reilly of the iron workers and the current

head of the greater hartford trade association and the trades in my state and in the greater hartford area have experienced in the last two years more than 40% unemployment. 40% in the building trade. and here's the president with a plan that puts the country back to work that focuses on our infrastructure system and most notably our schools. and the contrasts couldn't be more glaring. to understand the need to have a first rate education system and to see our schools upgraded in a way that many of them haven't been in years and to you undersd at the same time you'll be putting those very people back to work. the republicans have left us in the dark abyss of uncertainty, and that uncertainty is what we see when we go home and speak to

our constituents almost every single week. they want us here working. they feel what martin luther king said so eloquently so long ago, the fierce urgency of now. to put them back to work. and that's why we're here both ready to take on a conference assignment led capably by our vice chair, javier becerra, who will speak next. >> thank you, mr. chairman. this is a little difficult to understand. we've been told by the republicans that we are in session. we just spent four minutes today in session. and now we're done. well, most americans woke up at the beginning of this week wanting to be able to say, loving the opportunity to say i'm going back to work after this vacation. yet here we are, and we're done. four minutes.

and we've got some work to do. either we're in or we're out of session. can you imagine what would happen if we had republicans working with the president to create jobs? if 212,000 private sector jobs were created last month even with the obstruction of the republicans in congress and over 1.6 million jobs have been created in the last year despite the obstruction of the republicans in congress, can you imagine how many americans today would have been able to say after the vacation, guess what? i'm going back to work. as ricky ricardo used to tell lucille ball, i think our republican colleagues have some explaining to do because this is not the way you run government, and we need to have every hand on deck because every american is working as hard as possible. we need to make sure every single american, including those who got elected to this house of representatives, are ready to

work. and with that, let me yield to the ranking member of the budget committee and a member of the leadership, chris van hollen. >> i thank my colleague. let me just present two numbers. one is 160 million, 160 million americans. the other number is about 20 conferees, 435 members of the house. you would think that about 20 conferees or 435 members of the house could get back to work on behalf of 160 million americans and put that uncertainty to rest. and that's what this is all about. as mr. clyburn said, we saw some good news this morning in the jobs numbers. we saw the overall unemployment rate come down a little bit, we saw 200,000 new jobs created. but we also know that the economy remains very, very fragile. we know that millions of americans are still out there every day looking for a job, unable to find one through no fault of their own.

and that's why it's so important that we get to work and get to work now. just like all the americans who have jobs got back to work. now, a majority of the house republicans on the can conference committee have been on record in the past opposing the idea of a payroll tax cut for 160 million americans. so i hope the fact that they're not here today is not an indication that they don't want to continue to extend that tax cut for 160 million americans because we know during the last round they tried to add all sorts of extraneous, unrelated provisions to the package. which is why we had to do it for two months instead of for a year. let's get back, let's finish the job, let's make sure that we keep this fragile recovery moving. and with that i want to yield to the ranking member of the energy and commerce committee and a member of the conference committee who's here and ready to get to work, henry waxman.

>> the republicans are playing a game, let's pretend. let's pretend we're in session. for four minutes. let's pretend queer working. -- we're working. because they banged the gavel and allowed a prayer and allowed the pledge of allegiance. let's pretend they head up a democracy or they keep other points of view from even being expressed on the house floor today when they cut off our assistant leader and all of the members that are here today. they are playing let's pretend it doesn't make any difference that we're only going to meet five days in the month of january. let's pretend that it doesn't mean anything to them that there are 160 million americans that are depending on us to act to extend the middle class tax cut, to extend unemployment insurance for those who aren't working, to make sure that doctors are

adequately reimbursed so they'll keep seeing medicare patients. i think we ought to stop playing games whether it's let's pretend or any other game. it's already the new year, 2012. let's get to work. millions of americans are depending on us. let us summon the republicans from the four corners of the earth; hawaii, india or wherever they may be on their codells of privately-funded trips. i should throw in las vegas because i know there's a trip in las vegas. come on back to washington. it is not -- the weather's not as nice, but the work we are elected to do has to be done here. let the conferees meet. we've been informed that we won't even have a meeting until january 18th or thereafter. let's get to work. come on, republicans, let's not pretend to work, let's really

work. and i now want to yield to the gentlelady from maryland who so ably led us in the pledge of allegiance and has been here with all of us to express the feelings that we all so strongly hold that the american people are depending on us. >> thank you. this morning when i came in to lead the pledge, i thought it was a workday. um, and it is sad that here we are on january 3rd when millions of americans actually went back to work after their holidays, millions of americans except republicans in congress who thought that it was okay to take virtually the month off while we wait to extend unemployment compensation for millions of those who are unemployed for no reason, no fault of their own; while we wait to extend and give certainty to 160 million americans across this country who want those middle class tax cuts so that they can take care

of themselves and their families and put that into the economy. we came here to work, and i'm just the rank and file. i thought it was a workday because that's what people do after the new year begins. but that's not what republicans in congress have done. instead, they've said we want to work five days in january for a month's pay. we want to work four minutes on friday for a day's pay. while they spend it someplace else other than here in washington on capitol hill doing the business of extending unemployment benefits, providing 160 million americans with the certainty of a middle class tax cut and making sure that our seniors and disabled have the ability to have their doctors paid for their medicare reimbursements. we can't wait any longer. it's time to work. it's time for republicans to get back here in washington and work a month for a month's pay. >> i thank my colleagues for being here. i thank them for going to the

floor to express the concerns that i know are felt by people across the country. where are the jobs? where are the republicans? we talked about passing the bill that would extend the payroll tax cuts for 160 million americans, extend unemployment benefits for millions of people unemployed through no fault of their own and extending the ability to see a doctor for tens of millions of seniors. there's plenty else we could do. our absence, the absence of congress being in session deprives us of the opportunity to take bills to the floor that we reignite the american dream for people who are so hopeful, build ladders of opportunity for people to, who want to work hard and play by the rules to reach their success. and we have plenty of work to do. we could be taking up an infrastructure bill to rebuild america. reignite the american dream, rebuild the middle class,

rebuild america. make it an america, as mr. hoyer always says, we can be passing that kind of legislation. the president has it all in his proposal. instead, the republicans are missing in action. you've heard us on the floor, but unfortunately, the public could not hear because we were shut down when mr. clyburn, the distinguished gentleman from south carolina, stood up to speak on behalf of the american people. so we'd be pleased to take any questions -- >> republican who presided over the pro forma session just called what the democrats did on the floor theatrics. and when you were speaker, the house republicans staged a similar protest during an august recess. >> and they did. >> but you didn't bring the house back. >> no. but they danced on the floor, they stayed, and they were on television, as you recall. but the fact is right now we have massive unemployment in our country. perhaps people in washington don't notice.

i wish you could read my christmas cards. cards that i received from hundreds and hundreds of people talking about their needs. and how they want a job and can congress, please, work together to create jobs? this is a very, very difficult time for the american people. they're losing patience with congress. they simply don't understand why when they need jobs, we can't do ours. and it's, again, an important time when we could be instilling more confidence in the public that we will be getting the people's work done. >> this question's for ms. edwards. you said when you drove in this morning that you thought this was going to be a workday. your district is close to washington d.c. when the democrats were in control, you were often asked to preside over pro forma questions. when you were presiding over those sessions, did you anticipate or have an anticipation that any of those would be workdays, or is this somehow different? >> for me as a member of congress representing the people

of the fourth congressional district, every day's a workday. and it's a workday that we need to get to work creating jobs for the american people. that's what i expect us to be doing after a long vacation. the rest of america that has a job went back to work. the congress needs to come back to work too. we have work to do. we have to create jobs, we have to make sure that we extend unemployment for millions of americans who are out of work, and we need to make sure that we extend those tax cuts for 160 million americans who went to work after the holiday. i came ready to work, i'm ready to work, our democratic colleagues, many of them were here yesterday also ready to work. our conferees are here. it's time for the republicans in congress to get to the business of the american people. >> and it is a very, it's about time. it's about the time that the american people have been out of work, it's about the time that we are not working for them. it's about time for us to get here and get the job done.

so if you want to get yourselves bogged down in process of who did what last, some summer, when we came into congress in the first 100 hours we passed legislation to lower the -- to raise the minimum wage, to insist that the secretary have the right to, um, to negotiate for prescription drugs, to make sure that those who were drilling offshore paid their royalties to the federal government. not all of it became law, president bush was president at the time, but most of it did in our six for '06. and we continue to be on the job as long as there is the need and the opportunity for us to get the job done. and right now it's a time for us to have the conferees sit down at the table because the work was not completed last year. it was not completed last year because as mr. van hollen said, many of even the conferees in addition to the members of the

republican caucus did not support a payroll tax cut for 160 million americans. tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the country, oh, yes. but 160 million middle income americans, no. and then they used the excuse that it wasn't long enough. i've told some of you, it's like yogi berra talking about a restaurant. i don't like the food there, it isn't any good, and besides, the portions are too small. they don't like the payroll tax cut, and yet they want it to be -- saying they want it to be longer was their excuse for not getting the job done. so there's some uncertainty here. so if you don't think that this is a different time, take a ride outside of washington d.c. see what the public mood is. see what the need is for us to create these jobs not only to do what they say in the legislation, but what it engenders in terms of confidence in people, hiring by businesses

and injecting demand into the economy. i simply will not have us engage in a this, that, last august, ten years ago. this is about the here and now and the highly unusual circumstance that we are in because the republican failed policies of president george bush took us to a financial meltdown, took us into near depression, took us into deep deficits that we still have to deal with. are they just too tired to come to work? i hope not. [inaudible conversations] >> question for the conferees. >> senate democrats aren't here. are you calling the senate democrats to come back? >> we're asking the conferees to come to work, yes. house and senate. and they were here, they met this week. we're asking all of the conferees to get to work. >> i just wanted to confirm something because i think you have to distinguish what republicans did when they came

and the floor was not open for work and what we're trying to do today. when the republicans came and be told us to do some work, we had recessed. we had formally recessed. we had essentially told every member, go back to your district and work at home. this is your opportunity to work at home. we're not going to have votes. the republicans today are upset at the president for having made an appointment, a recess appointment, and they claim we have not recessed. we are still at work. which means you should be here prepared to vote. there is a great difference between a situation where we have formally recessed and, therefore, every member understands you don't need to be in the washington, d.c., you can now work in your district versus republicans today saying we're not in recess which should tell every single member of congress, be prepared to cast votes. so whether it's donna edwards or any other member of congress, there is a great difference between what the republicans did

on the house floor and what we are attempting to do today. the republicans are the ones that are saying we're at work. we're saying, prove it. [inaudible conversations] >> that was house democratic leaders speaking to reporters about payroll tax cuts and what's happened on the house floor about 40 minutes ago. here's how it played out. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states ofge america and to the republic fo which it stands. one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> mr. speaker? >> the gentleman's out of order. pursuant to section 4a of houses

resolution 493, no organizational or legislative business will be conducted on this day.busi >> [inaudible] >> pursuant to section 4c ofrsua house resolution of 493, the house stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on tuesday, january 10th,. 2012. >> he's a statement released by house democrats. a few minutes ago speaker pro tem under orders from speaker boehner refused to allow assistant democratic leader james clyburn to speak on the floor and called for the payroll tax cut conference committee to get to work. the statement continues, it's time for house republicans to immediately begin working with democrats on a long-term agreement to extend the payroll tax cut for 160 million americans and avoid taking us to the point of brinkmanship once again. americans are out of work, and

we've got work to do, but republicans are out of session. we can't wait. again, that's from a statement released by house democrats. at 11 eastern, in the about ten minutes, the u.s. senate will gavel in for what's expected to be a very short pro forma session. we'll have that brief event live here on c-span2 in if about ten minutes. until then, a look at the politics and career of america's fourth president, james madison. we'll show you as much of that as we can until the senate gavels in. >> well, every wednesday in our last hour of the "washingtonhi journal" we like to feature a recent magazine article. today richard brookhiser is joining us to talk about his recent piece in american history magazine on james madison's political legacy, and here is the piece. "the sick, short, shy father of the constitution, james madison, was also the determined,

ambitious, conniving father of american politics and, in fact, the well-read, deep thinker was the father of american politics, political parties, partisan media, hardball attack slogans and sound bites. he either invited them or knew they were coming. for better or worse, his fingerprints are all over the institutions and ground rules of politics as we know it." mr. brookhiser, that's a lot of statement about james madison. >> guest: well, he, you know, i justk wrote a book about him ant going into that, before i started, i knew he was the father of the constitution. we all know that he was called that in his lifetime. but the story i up covered or that presented itself to me is what a creative and determined politician this man was.

and he was really ahead of the curve among all the otherahea founding fathers at foreseeing the way american politics wouldg go and helping to push it in that direction. >> host: you write in this american history piece, were pus madison suddenly transported to a 2011 meet-the-candidate coffee or shown a shocking campaign twitter feed, he more than any other founder would take it all in stride. he saw it coming more than 200 yeargus ago. >> guest: well, one thing that impressed me about him particularly was his ability to learn to do things that didn't come naturally to him. that were useful politically. this was a man who was very shy, painfully shy. he was not a good speaker., he had a very low voice, a soft voice. one person described it as croaking, so it was not exactly a pleasant voice. and yet when he had to go head to head with patrick henry at

the virginia convention to pat ratify the constitution, madison, of course, supported it, henry opposed it, he took him on in debate over six weekst in richmond, and he beat him. madison was not a journalist. alexander hamilton was a born journalist. he did it when he was a teenager, he did it all his a b life. and yet when hamilton decided that the constitution needs a propaganda campaign in the new york newspapers, one of the people he turns to is his then-friend congressman james madison, and madison steps up ta the plate and writes 29 of thesp 85 federalist papers.righ so he can screw himself up to do these public performing things which are so essential, become so essential to politics. >> host: what was james madison's republican party? >> guest: this was the party to to oppose the policies of the washington administration that r he and thomas jefferson didn't

like. and this was mostly -- domestically, it was alexander hamilton's financial program. hamilton, the former merchants clerk born in the west indies, he thinks he's bringing the united states into a new financial world.cial he thinks he's establishing american prosperity and paying off our debts from thebts. revolutionary war. madison, also jefferson, they're virginia planters. they don't like this new world,v they don't understand a lot of it. they think hamilton is justt enriching his wall street cronies, his new york banker cronies. so they want to slow that down, they want to roll that back. the other big dividing issue is foreign policy. washington is inaugurated for the first time in april of 1789, the bastille falls july of 1789. and so the french revolution begins, and then 25 years of world war follow from that, mostly between britain and

france. so we're a little country on the edge of that superpower brawl. who do we support, if anybody? well, the federalists tend to incline more towards britain. britain is our main trading partner. but madison and jefferson, the republicans, they see france as a sister republic. a fellow revolutionary state. we should support them. so that's another flashpoint. >> host: mr. brookhiser, when did the terms during this era the full-terms "republican" and "federalist" start to get regular use? did they? or are these terms that we've taken? >> guest: no, they were terms that the people themselves usedy madison begins calling his own party the republican party in the 1792, and he does that in newspaper essays that he's a congressman for a newspaper that he has helped sea up which is called "the national gazette." this is i the party organ of the

republican party. and that's, it's a new thing in" american journalism and american politics. we had newspapers all throughout the colonial period, um, more per capita than any other country in the world. and a lot of these newspapers wrote about political issues. but with the emergence of thes national political party then for the first time you also havp a national political newspaper to support that party. >> host: who was phillip fur know? >> guest: he went to college with james madison, they both went to princeton. furnot's life took a downward turn. heso was a ship's captain, he dd journalism, he wrote poetry. you know, his career was not on the upward trajectory that madison's was.ajec but in 1791 madison introduces him to thomas jefferson who is the secretary of state, and h jefferson givesim furnot,

no-show job in the state department.o- he makes him a clerk translator, and he tells him you'll have y enough time to do anything elseg that you wish. now, what he and madison wishedr furnot to do was to edit a new newspaper in philadelphia, it's going to be called "the national gazette." madison sells subscriptions for it in virginia to gentlemanresc friends of his, and the first issue comes out on halloween,ipi 1791, and very soon this newspaper is hammering alexander hamilton and even president washington to the point where il one cabinet meeting washington speaks of that rascal, furnot, because it gets under his skin. >> host: um, when -- by the way, we're going to put the numbers up on the screen if you'd like to participate in our discussion. we have a chance now to just kind of step away fromo day-to-day politics and talkut t with historian richard you brookhiser about james madison. new book out this year by mr. brookhiser, weoo covered him

on booktv. you can watch that whole presentation at booktv.org. but in american history magazine, the december issue, and we'll show you the cover here, "american history" magazine, mr. brookhiser has written about james madison. it's not really an excerpt from the book, but it's more of a kind of political look at james madison. what first got you fascinated or why did you decide to write a book about james madison? >> guest: well, he's a little underdone, you know, of all the founding fathers. was we've had a lot about washington, obviously, we always have a lot about jefferson and hamilton, even john adams. but there seemed to be a bit of a hole there with james madison. but the one thing that tipped me -- >> here's the u.s. senate floor now live for a short pro forma session on c-span2.

senate will come to order. the clerk will read a communication to the senate. the clerk: washington, d.c, january 6, 2012. to the senate: under the provisions of rule 1, paragraph 3, of the standing rules of the senate, i hereby appoint the honorable jim webb,a senator from the commonwealth of virginia, to perform the duties of the chair. signed: daniel k. inouye, president pro tempore. the presiding officer: under the previous order, the senate stands adjourned until 11:00 a.m. on tuesday, januaryn

let's go to calls for richardyn brookhiser on james madison. stephen from connecticut. caller: listening to your stories, i love the dolly madison story where she is running through the white house telling servants to pack up all of our work before the british burned the place to the ground. i have heard a lot that james madison was more the founder of the democratic party, the modern party.

what is his take on how he relates to the modern party? the current democratic party is james madison's republican party. it -- he kept in the republican party from the 70 90/80 20's, and then they call themselves the democratic party, whi. >> and it's actually the oldest political party in the world except for the tories and britain. it's changed its constituency many times over the years. it's gone from southern slave-owning planters to modern multiculturalists. it's changed a lot of its policies. but i think the one element of continuity is a fear of certain kind of rich people, which both madison and jefferson had. these were hamilton's banker friends. the great virginians were very suspicious of these guys. didn't like them, didn't

understand them. and so that's i think that's woven into the dna of their party which was first the republicans but then the democrats to this day. >> host: are there any contemporary political arguments that you could compare to madison/hamilton arguments of 200-plus years ago? >> guest: well, the size of the military. jefferson and madison feared war. they feared war scares. there was a war scare in the late 1790s. it looked like we were going to go to war with france. france had a very bullying government called the directory, one stage in the revolution and the adams administration was preparing to take them on. and this is when they passed the alien act, which gave the president power to expel

undesirable aliens without a trial. also the sedition act, a national sedition law. and jefferson and madison fought these two measures. now, ironically, madison -- when he becomes president, he asks congress to declare war against great britain so the pacific politician is in the role of the war-making politician. i mean, he did that only after he felt he exhausted every other alternative. he tried economic warfare. he and jefferson tried a trade embargo to try and control the actions that had been a disastrous failure, disastrous failure. and so madison just saw the option after option, tried it, didn't work, so finally he asked in june of 1812 -- he asked congress to declare war. and it's the narrowest vote for war we've ever had. it was quite narrow in the

senate. a little bit bigger in the house but america went into that war with great reluctance. >> host: next call for historian richard brookhiser comes from breaking news. hi, lisette. >> caller: good morning, i feel like issued be calling in on the federalist line, instead. i've enjoyed mr. brookhiser's books, especially the one on googen and morris. >> guest: wasn't he a great guy. >> caller: wooden peg leg and all. >> guest: but he always had girlfriends. zblk but that peg leg will do it every time. i was wondering if you could address a little bit about the evolution factualism into parties. it infuriates me when i hear people there shouldn't be parties. it's good for america. well, everybody has a different view on that. and monroe -- excuse me, madison, jefferson, washington -- they were all against parties but they were

the -- especially jefferson and madison, the fathers of the party system in america. could you address that for me? >> guest: sure. the founders had a notion that they themselves might be above partisan struggle. i mean, they were historically minded enough to know that factions would always appear. and madison writes about them in the federalist papers. you sort of have the tone scientist handling germs in a laboratory. he's got his gloves on when he's looking at these factions. they are dirty things. they're always going to be there and they're dangerous and yet they very soon set up the first two-party system in american history which is madison's and jefferson's republicans and then the federalists, with president washington, alexander hamilton and john adams. and madison is really the first of them to understand that

factions are not necessarily bad things, but that these can be forces -- a party can be a force to accomplish various things. in madison's mind that is inclining towards france and foreign policy and resisting alexander hamilton's financial plans. but these are important goals to james madison. how do you accomplish that? you have to accomplish that with political action and enter a public that means a national party. and so he gets over his early reluctance to have such things, to endorse such things and he becomes a founder of a party himself. >> host: what was his relationship and early tete-a-tetes with president james monroe? >> guest: well, monroe than

madison and madison is older than jefferson. will they all take their line to succeed each other to get to the about how soon? and -- white house. and there's a moment in the second term when it looks like madison the youngest of the three wants to jump ahead of james madison, his elder -- elder in this lineup and become president before he does. and one of madison's task -- madison's is jefferson's secretary of state is he has to figure out politically how do i shove monroe aside? how do i kill him? he's got to kill him gently and only for one election cycle and then he's got to make sure he brings him back and make nice with him again because you don't want a feud in your home state. and the way madison does this -- it's a nice little study in politics. it's not quite the politics of personal destruction. he didn't want to destroy

monroe, he just wanted to shove him aside and then after he'd won, i'll bring him back. >> host: but he ran against him for congress. >> guest: early on, early on, way back. monroe opposes the constitution. he's a virginian like patrick henry, like george mason who thinks the constitution is too strong. you know, it's too much, too far. so he opposes it. and patrick henry gerrymanders a congressional district for james madison to run in, which is mostly counties which have opposed the constitution in the virginia-ratifying fight. he also imposes a residency requirement, which is actually unconstitutional but it isn't challenged and overturned for a number of years. but when james madison is first running for a seat in the house of representatives, he has to run in this unfriendly district and the enemy they found for him is his acquaintance, his

sometime-friend james madison. and they go at it and this is one of madison's first experiences of public debate. i said earlier, this is something he wasn't good at. he didn't like doing it, but he and monroe had a series of debates. one of them was in front of a german lutheran church in culpepper county. and it was snowing and they had to debate outside because the lutherans thought it would be impi-joe to debate inside the church so they stood outside the church and they went on for a long time and it was snowing and it was cold and then madison had to ride back home to montpelier afterwards, 12 miles. he got frostbite on his nose which he bore the marks of all his life. but that's when you have a to do to beat james madison and so he just did it. >> host: and you write in this american history magazine article, then he debated monroe before congregations when madison was an old man. he recalled one of their joint appearances at a lutheran church

in the district's largest county, quote, there was a nest of dutch men, germans whose vote might very probably turn the scale. service was performed and then they had music with two if i hadles. they are remarkably fond of music, talking about the music talking about the lutherans. glenn, you're on the "washington journal." >> caller: hi, mr. brookhiser. >> guest: good morning. >> caller: i was wondering how madison felt about the way the native americans were treated? plus another quick point we should have a call in on voting about the legal immigration, thank you. >> guest: well, native americans, james madison didn't give a lot of thought about them. to the extent he did think of them, they were enemies. one of the reasons in declaring war in britain in 1812, he called -- he calls it warfare renewed by the savages.

and who he is talking about is tecumseh, who was a shawnee leader in what is now indiana. tecumseh was a leader and diplomat. he reached out as far south in what is now mississippi and obama. he was also working with the british in canada. he saw the threat that the united states posed to the indian nations and he wanted to bottle us up and block us. and he came pretty close to doing it. he lost some battles and he finally killed at a battle called the battle in the tims in what's ontario and canada. and when they are negotiate ago peace treaty britain abandons their indian allies and leaves them to their fate. >> host: mr. brookhiser, some question and a fun parlor game, if madison was alive today, what

party would he be in now. >> guest: i can't go that far. the farthest i can go how would he vote in 1890. what if he's 90 years old and the country is splitting apart over slavery. >> host: was he a slave owner? >> guest: avenues slave owner. he dies in 1836 so he lives long enough to see the fight over admitting missouri into the country in 1820. he lives to see the nullification crisis with south carolina, this battle over the tariff. he sees what could be coming. so i consider the four candidates who ran in 1860. he would not have voted for abraham lincoln because lincoln was running on a platform of restricting the expansion of slavery into the territories. madison didn't think there was a constitutional power to do that. he would not have voted for john breckenridge the southern

democrat because he would have seen him as a john calhoun, a ruling southerner, it's got to be our way. he might have voted for steven douglas because he was a jacksonion and madison had pretty good relations with andrew jackson. he was president and madison lived to see that but i think he probably would have voted for the fourth guy, john bell, who was the candidate of the union party. he was from tennessee. and this was a party that wanted the union to be maintained and everybody to shut up about slavery. and bell carried virginia, kentucky and tennessee. and his running mate was a name named edward everett who published an article by madison in his retirement when madison is expressing alarm over calhoun and the southern prosecessionists. so that's how madison would have voted. now, bell finished fourth in the popular vote. so after fort sumter, what would

have madison have done? i can't imagine that he would have seceded. even though lincoln the victor would not have been his way of handling things, he was such a strong unionist and one of the last things he writes -- the little piece that he wanted published after death was that anyone who preaches this union to be treated pandora with her box open or like a serpent creeping into paradise. so that was his great year. >> host: were he and henry clay allies, friends, acquaintances? >> guest: they were. there's a wonderful story about henry clay and dolley madison. he goes up to her at some reception, and he says, everybody loves mrs. madison. she comes right back and she says, that's because mrs. madison loves everybody. and that's kind of, you know, virginian air-kissing a little bit.

but it was also true. i mean, she would rather like you than dislike you. and that's why she was such a great hostess. >> host: an irish girl tweets in dolley lived through two wars, knew the first 12 presidents, live to see america become the first democracy. >> yes she did. she was at the laying of the cornerstone of the washington monument. she and eliza hamilton, alexander hamilton's widow -- they brought these two old ladies who lived in washington together and they were on the podium. >> host: what year was that? >> guest: this was 1852, i think. >> host: next call for richard brookhiser talking about james madison comes from right here in washington. ernest, you're on the air. >> caller: am i talking to mr. brookhiser on tv. >> host: yes. >> caller: mr. brookhiser, i want to ask you one -- one question. during madison's state of time,

tell me did madison take an oath of office and in turn allow -- [inaudible] >> caller: oath of office and then and what type oath of office did he take when he was a president. >> guest: oh, what sort of oath of office? >> caller: yeah, i want to know whether he took a pledge -- what's the difference between a pledge and the oath of office? >> guest: well, he took an oath. it's the form in the constitution. now, it does -- it does allow you to say -- most presidents -- maybe all of them said i swear. it does allow you to say affirm. they put that in there in case a quaker became president. and quakers cannot swear oaths, but madison was not a quaker and he used the form in the constitution. >> host: women's work usa tweets in to you mr. brookhiser have guest explain in 1775 madison

wrote his memorial against religious assessments? >> guest: yes. one of madison's lifelong principles -- he moves around on a lot of things over his long life. some things never. and one of those is religious liberty. this is actually the first issue that got him into politics before the revolutionary war. it was the persecution of baptists in virginia. madison was not a baptist. he was an anglican and then a episcopalian. they were being treated badly. when he said i tried to teach the word through the bars of a cell, someone stood outside and made water in my face. this was really rough nasty stuff. it enraged james madison. just enraged him. and this was a lifelong

principle of his. he stuck up for the baptists' own state. he did not want the state of virginia to support religion in any way or to have any sorts of restrictions on the exercise of it. in the virginia declaration of right, he changed the language -- and this is in 1776 when he's -- when he's 25 years old. the original language of george mason was for toleration of religion and madison changed it -- he said, no, let's change it to free exercise because toleration implies someone who tolerates. that means religious freedom is like the gift we're giving you. madison says, no, it's the right. change this to free exercise. and then what the caller -- tweeter specifically referred to, 1785, this is when the principles of the declaration of right, which was the bill of rights in the state of virginia were finally enacted into law. and this was a law that thomas

jefferson had actually proposed in 1779. it hadn't caught on then. jefferson is now in paris as a diplomats. so madison is the guy in the virginia legislature who is making this happen and making this real. and after -- it does get signed into law. he writes jefferson in paris and says, i flatter myself that we finally ended attempts to control the human mind. >> host: richard brookhiser, this tweet for you, what madison would think of the patriot act taking away our fourth amendment right? >> guest: what would madison think about the patriot act? his conduct as president in wartime was pretty hands-off. pretty libertarian in contemporary terms. i know that he was asked by several people to pass the national sedition law. by his own attorney general, by a congressman whom he put on the

supreme court, a man named joseph story, who actually became a great justice. they both suggested to them that we need a national sedition law and he wouldn't do it. so i think that might be a guide to his conduct now. >> host: what years was he president? >> guest: he was elected in 1808. and then re-elected in 1812. so he leaves office in march 18th. >> guest: who preceded. >> guest: jefferson preceded and james monroe -- they got that little virginia thing working. >> host: how many books have you written about the american revolution period? >> guest: oh, jeez, this is my fifth biography. i've written about george washington, alexander hamilton, john adams and his descendents and governor morris and then i revisited washington a couple times and i wrote a book called "what would the founders do."

>> host: and if you go to booktv.org which is c-span2 on the weekends, you can type in richard brookhiser's name and watch several of his presentations talking about his books, booktv has covered him for most all of his books. mr. brookhiser is currently a columnist with american history magazine and an editor at "national review" magazine. you've been with them for a long time? >> guest: oh, yes, since 1977. >> host: omaha, nebraska, steve, thanks for holding. go ahead with your question. we're talking about james madison. >> caller: good morning. i also am a writer of american history, particularly, the revolutionary period. the thing i know about james madison is he's secretary of the writer of the constitution. he brokered between all fighting sides and, in fact -- 35% of the constitution that we ended up with is james madison.

>> guest: that's a little high. look, madison did not get the constitution he exactly wanted. and he writes a letter to jefferson, as they're wrapping up their deliberations in philadelphia, in september of 1787, and it's a little downcast. i mean, he's telling his best friend and he's writing in cipher so prying eyes can't see it. so he makes some comments about the documents they just finished. that was not unique to him. nobody got exactly the constitution he wanted. everybody in philadelphia and everybody involved in the ratification states lost on something or other. but enough people agreed that a change had to be made and that the document that came out of philadelphia was good enough. and one thing that's very impressive about madison is when he loses a fight, he never sulks

or if he sulks he thinks what do i do next? where do i go from here? maybe this isn't a total loss. maybe i have to rethink but he's always thinking, how do i go on? how do i proceed and that's what he did after philadelphia with the constituti did he play hard? guest: you did not want to be in his path. the history of the early republic is littered with the bodies of the people that stood in his way. it is new yorkers. this first republican party is based on an alliance of virginia and new york. it is more complicated than that, because the great virginians have to find new york allies. then they have to make sure they always stay in the no. 2 slot.

if they start getting too ambitious, they have to find ways to shuffle them off the stage. there is a list of people they do this to, robert livingston, aaron burr, george clinton, jefferson second vice-president cash and madison's first vice- president. -- and then who runs against madison for president in 1812. i mean, you know, you just go down the list. and they're very good at finding these guys and then getting rid of them. >> host: in your american history magazine piece, richard brookhiser, you write madison's most important contribution may have been figuring out how to make politics workday in, day out. he was the first founding father to understand the importance of public opinion and that marked a new stage in his thinking. >> guest: public opinion was a new phrase in the eighteenth century. it's hard to imagine that but it

was a new concept that had been first used in france, in french. madison is one of the first people in the english-speaking world to use the phrase "public opinion." and he writes some essays for this newspaper he helps found, the national gazette, in 1791/1792 where he talks about public opinion. and he says there should be one empire of reason over the whole country. and every citizen must be the sentinel over the rights of every other citizen. now, what's new about this is that someone like george washington, of course, believed in popular rule. but to him, that happened at election time. you know, the people would vote and then the people who got elected would do their jobs until the next election when they were either removed from office or re-elected. so for him it's kind of a

cyclical, a wave thing. madison says this is 24/7. it should go on all the time. the people always have to be watching what is going on in the nation's capital. what is going on with their representatives. they have to let their representatives know what they think. the representatives also have to address them, address the people. now, also the representatives try to manipulate the people. madison doesn't come right out and say that. but that's going on, too. so he really grasps this world of 24/7 -- i mean, we can find it very fatiguing, right, 'cause it's just like, a, all the time. but madison is saying, no, this is what has to happen. this is the only way that the people can be sure of protecting their rights. >> host: the last call for richard brookhiser comes from nashville, tennessee, go ahead, joe. >> caller: yeah, my question is, what was madison's take on the

slavery at the time? >> guest: slavery, that's bad. there's nothing inspiring there. he does not free any slaves in his will. slavery is an issue he doesn't want to see on the table. he feels it's a distraction from other things that are more important to him. he doesn't want to face it. he doesn't want to address it. the best you can say is that he is a unionist all his life, and the way it will work out is that the sense of the union will solve the problem of slavery, but in terms of thoughts about slavery, madison is less inspiring, less useful to us than alexander hamilton, than george washington who freed all his slaves in his will. even thomas jefferson, who at least agonized about that. >> host: just to follow that up freelancer tweets in, which

presidents owned slaves? >> guest: all the virginian, john tyler did. >> host: so the two adams no -- >> guest: the two adams no. i don't know if van buren might have as a young man and maybe gave them up later on. i'm not sure about that. >> host: okay. all right. and this tweet as well from jim heinz. in its totality madison's presidency was pretty much a failure. the war of 1812 not necessary at all. >> guest: well, look, the resolution of the war of 1812 is status quo that's what the diplomats decide so nothing changes. the borders of the united states and canada remain the same. some of the issues that madison raised such as the sailors and british trade restrictions -- they were left off the table so you could certainly say it had no result. i think the result was an issue

of national self-respect. the united states went from a nation that nobody had to pay any attention to a nation even great britain had to give some consideration to. so psychologically it was a second war of independence. >> host: and richard brookhiser writes, james madison father of politics was as creative and as significant as james madison, father of the constitution. politics is a spirit that animates the legal blueprint, the grease that makes the machine run, political argument and electioneering are how americans express their desires and fears and ideals and how the hard edges get details and this is his article of american history magazine and if readers go to richard brookhiser.com will readers be able to find this article. >> guest: they will be able to find my book. >> host: which is on james madison as well. historynet.com if people want to

read this article from american history magazine, mr. brookhiser, we appreciate you coming over and chatting with our viewers. >> with the new hampshire primary only four days away, we're taking a look at primary victory and concession speeches from year's past. today, we'll take you back to january 27th, 2004, to hear speeches from john kerry and howard dean. senator kerry won that primary, 38-26 percent over the former vermont governor. see that starting at 2:00 pm eastern on c-span3. and later today, texas congressman ron paul holds a town hall meeting in durham, new hampshire. he finished third in iowa and now looks to the voters in new hampshire to help him continue his campaign. that event starts at 7:00 pm eastern on c-span and after it's over, we'll take your phone calls and comments. cnn reports that representative ron paul said wednesday that rival newt gingrich was a, quote, chicken hawk for voting to send american troops into war

while never having served in the military himself. that was in response to mr. gingrich's assertion that ron paul would be a, quote, dangerous candidate. >> because i didn't speak and i didn't give really a window into my life, i'd become kind of an evil cartoon and i didn't help myself with wearing a hat coming out of my plea in court. but i'd become kind of a villain and i wanted to show people i'm not an evil person. i'm a regular person. i did things that were wrong. but i don't have a tail or horns. i grew up like everybody else. >> this weekend on "after words" on c-span's booktv, power and corruption on capitol hill. once the most influential lobbyist in washington, jack abramoff was convicted of mail fraud and conspiracy in 2006. his story saturday night at 10:00 eastern. also from news for all the people, juan gonzalez and joseph

torres on the role segregation when news was reported. and margie ross on what it takes to be a successful female publisher and author sunday at 11:15 pm. booktv, every weekend on c-span2. >> next, a discussion on the economic challenges facing youth and their need to acquire necessary skills in education to compete in the future job market. this event was part of the closing session of the annual legislative conference of the national black caucus of state legislators. this is an hour and 15 minutes. >> before i introduce our president-elect, i would like to apologize to the panel for running behind. we started our breakfast late,

but we value your time. and thank you very much for waiting for us. representative joe armstrong, our president-elect. [applause] >> thank you, madam president, and certainly we won't to get on with this great panel, but first let me introduce our moderator. if you were at the corporate round table luncheon with melody hopson the other day, you realize the skill level of our moderator because sister hopson told it all. i think she told it all because she was so comfortable in the person that was interviewing her. and the person that interviewed is our moderator today. cheryl jackson is a freelance correspondent who has worked for cnn, the public broadcasting system, and also working for

racing toward diversity magazine. she has a number of articles that have been highlighted not only in this area and this region but across the country. i can go on and talk about this young lady but i think she's going to demonstrate to you her ability, her class, her charisma. let me introduce our moderator, ms. jackson, and cheryl jackson that will take control of the program now. >> thank you very much. thank you. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. well, first we'll start with ms. -- i would like everybody to introduce them. >> i'm andrea zap. >> i'm congressman danny davis and i represent bishop smith. [laughter] >> and reverend sightfield. [laughter] >> i'm bill sprigs i'm the assistant professor of labor.

>> i'm chair of the white house council on environmental quality. >> i'm bob lehman. i'm a institute fellow at the urban institute and i'm professor of economics at american university in washington. [applause] >> okay. let's give them a hand. [applause] >> okay. certainly the economy is on everyone's minds. and i know we have legislators out here but we also have a c-span audience, and so i think people who normally aren't maybe engulfed in the economy are kind of paying attention right now so i'd like us to have as simple and as easy to understand a conversation as possible which maybe is not so much economy and ease or whatever. so if we can just do that, i'd appreciate it. well, we have a president, you know, facing re-election a 8% unemployment and not since fdr that a president has been re-elected with an unemployment rate over 7%. so we have sort of a difficult

situation and then we have a democratic president who is looking at, you know, having to make history in order to be re-elected. we have, i think, this country is in a -- where i hear people -- even students, graduate students, talking about the economy. you know, people are really focused on this right now. we just heard last week obama aligned himself kind of with fdr and maybe believes that he will continue to -- that the government has to get into debt to create jobs. that's what they should do. and to continue to tax the rich in order to help the economy and you have people on the other side looking for answers talking about reaganomics is it obamanomics or "freakonomics"? what exactly has to happen in order to fix the economy and i'll talk with you, doctor. >> well, in my view, we could have a mix of programs that wouldn't be all that costly.

i've laid out a plan on our urban institute website that's for about, say, 60 billion would create about 4 million jobs but i think we need to be more efficient in the way we create jobs. it seems to me that, for example, the social security tax reduction is going to help mostly people who are already employed. now, i realize there's an attempt to have them spend the money and increase demand but i think there are more direct approaches that one could take and as i mentioned in my plan -- one of them, for example, would be to stimulate apprenticeship training to have kind of a jobs and skills combination strategy and you can do that -- i mean, south carolina has managed to double their apprenticeship program in a very short time with a very small tax credit and some additional marketing. but that's the direction i think

we need to go. we need to be more efficient in the way we create jobs. and rather than, for example, have a more general tax reduction, try to target the reductions on companies that expand employments, that sort of thing. and then finally, we do need to do something more in the housing area but i'll leave that for later. >> okay. >> well, i think it's important that this conversation is focused on how we create jobs and i think the president has been focused on how we create jobs and he actually put a plan on the table, the american jobs act, which really it's not the only answer but an important way where we can begin to provide incentives for employers to -- you know, who have capital sort of sitting on the sidelines to get off the sidelines and start to hire and to create more jobs.

and incentives and relief for families and the payroll tax that is very much under discussion right now and also looking at where through the way that the public sector spends money to make sure that that's focused on creating jobs. so a couple of examples out of the american jobs act is one to put money into renovating schools. there's a huge need out there, most american schools -- i think the average age is over 40 years old. and they are in need of renovation. there are thousands and thousands of construction workers who are not working right now because of the downturn in the housing market. they can be put back to work, renovating schools, making them safer and healthier environments for children to learn in. and the other area where the president has proposed to put some additional public sector dollars in there where there's a great need all across our country is investing in infrastructure.

so he proposed to create an infrastructure bank that will help again put, you know, thousands of construction workers who are unemployed right now, could be put back to work right now making important upgrades and changes to infrastructure all across our country and it will get people back to work. and there seems to be some in washington who are focused on everything but, doing, you know -- having a debate, having a discussion about these kinds of programs that we know can put people back to work right away. >> well, i get to extend the answer. of course, the administration has actually been quite successful over the last 28 months. we've added over 3 million jobs in the private sector. so we have the economy moving in the right direction. when the election comes, i think what will be more important is people seeing we're moving in the right direction. everyone knows that the president did not create this great recession. he inherited this great recession. so i think the election will more likely hinge on what is the

direction the economy is going. the american jobs act is real important because it targets those areas that aren't going to be served by just general increases and aggregate demand. so while, yes, there's the tax cut, that's what's on the floor right now with congress because congress took apart the president's complete vision of the america's jobs act. there's also a provision under pathways to work so that we can make sure and hire people who are in low-incomed neighbors where we know just increasing aggregate demand isn't going to reach them. and so we need, as bob said, an efficient way to get people into jobs. it recognizes that we do have to train for the future so when you look at the infrastructure that nancy just mentioned, and look at transportation portion, there was $500 million set aside specifically for training so that we could make sure and bring on the next cohort of workers that we know we need and

construction and to make sure and diversify the set of workers who are there. and then we need to modernize what we're doing with our unemployment insurance system so we can more effectively connect people back to work when they lose jobs. so there's lots of provisions in there to address not just how do we create jobs but how to we connect people to the jobs that we have. so there's a lot of components. if you look at the jobs act it's the president going from the down payment that was made during the recovery act into the next phase which is to accelerate the job growth above the 3 million that we've already experienced. >> doctor? >> i think the legislative initiatives that have been put forth by the president and the current administration has been quite successful from the vantage point of stimulating job creation in the private sector.

and i think most people talk now about private sector stimulation. but i also believe that when the private sector is not able to do what is needed to be done, and that as a last resort, there's something called public sector job creation, i think we saw that historically with franklin delano roosevelt, with that administration we saw some of it, with the great society activity. that was actually moving the country out of a level of poverty or beyond anything any people had ever imagined would happen. and so we still have hundreds of thousands of people with no work. we have seen a tremendous

increase in technological advancements and development. i was at a hospital ribbon-cutting two days ago. and all of us were talking about how great the technology was. i went to the restaurant that same day who ran into a guy who worked in the hospital. yeah, all these robots are putting us out of work. [laughter] >> he say we can't find enough work to do. so retraining, reprogramming and at the same time, i think we have to figure out a way to keep some of the resources, some of the money from this simply flowing to too few people. and so we got to figure out a way to get some more of the money in the hands of the average middle class or poor

person in the united states of america who is simply limping and leaning and trying to make it. >> thank you. >> so i don't think there's too much that i can add at the high level on the economy question that you said, that you raised. but i do want -- a couple points that i can make that is particularly relevant to this audience in terms of things you ought to be thinking about, that are relevant to this question and on the question of jobs. so first, if we're talking about getting people trained for the jobs that are there, just a couple of things you should focus on. i absolutely agree with bob about the apprenticeship and making sure that people are retraining them because we're running -- there's not-for-profits and programs training people where there are no jobs. people will come out and there will be no jobs. and the second thing you ought to think about, programs that your states are funding, for construction or your state

organizations, that when people come out of those jobs, that the unions and the prime contractors in your state will hire those people. in illinois, for example, the department of transportation has a million dollars for training minorities. no one would apply for that training money. why? because the unions told us that they would not hire the people coming out of our training program. and so i just suggest to you that you look not only, are the training programs we're funding the right training programs? but also, what's the results? and that you look at the numbers and you particularly look at the numbers for african-americans because i think what you will find and what we find as we're starting to look at them, which we are at the urban league in illinois that our numbers in terms of the effect of that spend are low. so that's i think is important to focus on. the other thing when it comes to education, i just -- talking about education wherever i go. in illinois, we have a 50%

dropout rate. and earlier this week i was at a program -- trust me, it's going to be relevant to your question. we did a program on the impact of the dropout rate. and it is everything that you saw. people who dropout dramatically less earning skills over time. that's what bob and everybody is talking about, the skills required for the jobs go up, right? so it becomes critically important that we focus on educational issues because here's what's happening to black people. we are being left behind. we are creating thousands and thousands of people who will not be able to access the jobs that are available if we don't address these issues. and that's just going to be a drag on the economy continually. the last thing i want to say is just for work and the availability of work, small and

minority businesses. government businesses critically important in growing those businesses that hire minorities. we're spending money. we're spending money in illinois to build roads, to create -- to do development. and the question is, how much of that money is going to african-american and minority-owned businesses who will hire minorities? and, again, i think those critical components to growing not only the economy but also growing it for black people. >> if you look at the unemployment rate over 8%, i think the african-american unemployment rate has been over 16% so that's huge. and these studies show that african-american businesses, small businesses hire more minorities maybe than white businesses even if those white businesses are in an african-american community. so it looks like small business and minority-owned business is one of the answers to the problems that are going on in

the african-american community. did you have more to say about the urban league's national study? >> the urban league as you know has been focused on jobs since our founding and here's what they said and there's some good news. here's what they said, entrepreneurs are starting businesses but the key to their success is a couple things. it's not -- we talk about access to capital a lot and that's certainly an issue for african-american business. but the other issue is economic opportunity, it finding -- is what i touched on. it's finding the businesses. and what the study found was that as businesses -- the key to businesses growing, young businesses growing is access to business to business opportunities and to government business opportunities. and so again, i mentioned it all to you all because those are the things that i think you all have the ability to impact and they're critically important to minority businesses, entrepreneurs' success. >> a recent study just showed

that young african-american men in their 20s are four times more likely to commit violent crime as their white counterparts except unless there are opportunities for jobs. and then there's no difference. so can some of you just speak to the point -- when we're talking about the african-american community and the desperation of not having a job and maybe about some next steps or some things that we could do to address that? >> well, i think this is where the apprenticeship idea and technical training come in to play in a much bigger way. not just black men but men generally in the united states and even in other countries are now having lower educational attainment than women. but in other countries, there's a much bigger role for work-based learning where people are doing something. they're earning a salary. they're taking courses on the side.

they're under a mentor. and there's a relevance between what they're learning in the classroom and what they're doing at the work site. plus, there is a sense of pride when you complete one of these -- in my case, what i'm pushing, apprenticeships. that covers something like 50 to 70% of young people in germany and switzerland whereby the way they have a much higher rate of rate in manufacturing. they have a very low youth unemployment rate so their young people have more than one route to a rewarding career and we have limit that in this country. unless you want to sit in a classroom for 14, 16 years, you know, you're not going to do much. so it seems to me we need to dramatically change that. and we've seen that where we've

tried career academies, which is a little bit in this direction, where people have kind of a career focus, the most at-risk young men do much better. when we've tried apprenticeships with the most at-risk and the middle level young men, they do much better and there's a very high rate of return. and the other thing about apprenticeship training unlike many of the other programs, is that it's a private-sector led approach. as you were saying, when the employers themselves are involved in the training -- and they're actually employed. these people are employed already, now, when they complete the apprenticeship, they may stay or they may not, but the employer gets to know them directly. it's not like they have to graduate from a training program and then somehow find something. but this is very, very critical that we move in this direction. and it's possible. some people say, well, the united states won't do it.

employers won't do it. that's not true. we have a sizeable apprenticeship program but we have tiny, tiny resources. the budget for the labor department apprenticeship in the entire country is about $23 million. it's like zero. it's a tiny part of even our department of labor training budget. and yet there are hundreds of thousands of people. we could expand that quite dramatically. in the u.k. -- i'll just finish with this. in the united kingdom, in the year 2000, they had a very low -- where they have flexible labor markets, employers don't have to create these programs, employers can do what they want. they had very low amounts of apprenticeship. in the last 10 years, they've increased it dramatically to the point where now -- in a year or two, you're going to have as

many people entering apprenticeships as entering higher education. .. >> as a reporter, i'm sorry, doctor? >> and i agree, but what amazes me is when we hear what you just said a moment ago, that even if you're doing the training, even if you have the apprenticeship programs, the unions can tell

you we are not going to hire these people. we're not going to hire. and so, i'm of the opinion that all of these things have to be done simultaneously, and the main thing also has to be done is the acquisition and utilization. i'm sorry, i mean, we know about this. i mean, we know approaches. we know what works. we know what will not work. we know what does work. but how do you make it happen? how do you get it done? how do you get people to simply be fair? how to get people to do the things -- [applause] we know, we know it works. power. i mean, i think of frederick douglass all the time. power concedes nothing without a

demand. it never has and it never will. and i think that's where we also have to put a great deal of concentration. >> just to be brief, however, of course the reason we have a small apprenticeship office is because it is a coordinating function. it is not a public function. it is a private sector function. the office our partnership is regulations and coordinate what is taking place in the private sector. and, of course, encourage private companies to engage in apprenticeship at the big problem we're having right now, however, is the problem that whether the unions, whatever it is that the unions say, we have an aggregate demand problem. they are are not demands for jobs. and so we come even in our existing apprenticeship programs were having a hard time placing students because you are employed.

we have to have the jobs act so we can get people employed, so that apprenticeship can be put on the job. and the president has been very careful to address this issue of equity. we have increased at the department of labor several, the number of people with their office of federal contract compliance programs, and we put in place pat, the director, making sure that executive order went president johnson put in place to make sure we're going to have a fair playing field when it comes to hiring. and we're in the process of finding modernizing the regulations dealing with construction. those regulations are over 30 years old. totally different american existed at the time. demographically. so we know that without loaded goals within, and strategies within that program given the demographics that were taking place. think of california 30 years ago

and look at california day. obviously, the goals established over 30 years ago don't reflect that current demographic. so part of this is getting the government with the right tools come to the enforcement, and having exactly as congressman davis said, a government that is willing to use its power to enforce the law, to make sure that equal opportunity laws actually mean something when it comes to federal contracts. >> i, just from my perspective, i was think about what dr. davis said. as reporter i going to neighbors all the time where someone has been shot or killed. and the story is often that someone was trying to run from poverty. he did well in school for a while and then he quit because he needed money for this or for that, or i just see this cycle of this power running people down. a lot of people are really trying. so what is the answer to be able