making the case that we need to close thousands of post offices and mail processing facilities, they have employees integrate service due to alleged insolvency? but you see here in this room is just the tip of the iceberg. i would suggest that you tell the postmaster general that if he intends to go ahead and try to impose this plan, he's going ve meet his waterloo and .. you. [applause] >> next, please. >> and jesse davis, officer of the vermont post office and i cannot ask for a better stuff or better group of customers there. [applause] we keep hearing out of washington cut, cut is our congressional delegation so aptly put it. one word we haven't heard of innovation. for the last several years i've been saying that e-mail is

killing us. i have one simple question. why are we not having an e-mail server that rivals gmail or hotmail? why are we not a web hosting server that rivals go daddy? i don't know how much money you can make off of that. [applause] >> my name is bob reid. my name is barb reid, a resident of white river junction, vermont. they think it's real interesting that in 2006 when they started seeing declines and it's also the same year that this blog a pass that said that the post office had to pay 5.5 billion a year for 10 years to fund current and future postal workers to the year 2075. i'm not sure everybody knows that. that is kind of ridiculous.

i have to wonder why that came into effect. i heard somebody say about the privatization of the postal service. i am here representing myself and not my company, but i have to say that i am in the post office every day and i get excellent customer service they are from the front window to the people who pick up our mail. i would be lost without paying business mail entry unit. the other thing i want to say is i never have to worry about the mail getting into my mailbox at home when there is now. as opposed to my paper getting into the news tube. so, thank you all. >> appreciate you coming, thank you. [applause] >> good evening. by michelle charbonneau, charbonneau, i'm a member of an alc bridge 521. i have been delivering parcels for the postal service at

christmas time since 1983. this year i noticed i was delivering parcel postmarked -- priority postmark december 12 on december 19, which i consider to be serious erosion of service. parcels postmarked december 19, delivered on december 27 i think is a shame that was not delivered by the 24th. and i understand you are from maine? that's correct. are you familiar with l.l. bean? i believe they are a very service oriented business and that is really the kingpin of their success. i see the internet as a coal mine for the postal service. an absolute gold mine. and if the postal service would put some energy into that cometh in the energy they put into disrupting service enclosing the post office into growing the business, we would be an incredible, successful story.

i absolutely ask the postal service to support the postal service protection act. the postmaster general should be leading the charge with senator sanders and senator leahy and congressman welch. we should be working together with them to preserve the post office, not dismantle it. thank you. [applause] >> not sure which ones we can do. my name is again to me malia and i'm a resident of white river junction for the past nine years. having a name like mine, you can imagine my letters get addressed wrong all the time. but i know my postal carrier branding. her name is janet. i know she's out there, hi. she's wonderful. my kids love her. you know, she's very personable and does the job well. i am not postal or military

affiliated, but i have someone's little girl and i'm a follower of the golden rule. so i feel for those in mice that had men and women out of the country, some of them killed by a roadside bomb, what if a little girl nailed her letter under these new circumstances you have here in that letter made it too late for her daddy was killed? and he never got to see that letter? i mean, that would be terrible for that little girl to grow up knowing that. i have one question at the end of this. i live on disability and i am also an employee of areas that the woman spoke about earlier. i make less than $2000 a month for myself, my husband and five children imail etched country manage to balance my budget with that. you guys should figure out how to deal with what you have.

[applause] now, my disability comes in on the third. my mortgage is due on the first. i can mail it out and make my 10 day grace period now. if you screw that up, then i don't make my 10 day grace period and i am charged a late fee or am charged a fee to do it over the phone or do a bike computer, which i don't own. i don't own a car that runs right now so i can't get somewhere to a computer to mail out or pay those bills. i don't want a credit card. if i did, how they pay the credit card bill if they couldn't it out? doesn't make sense to me. sorry, i lost my point here. i guess my last thing i want to say is i have a question for ms. essler. the billions of dollars you plan on saving when you get rid of all these employees, is that going to be lining the pockets

of somebody who's already lined pockets of somebody like yours or is it going to go someone else in our community? [applause] i actually do want you to answer that question. and don't tell me you don't know. >> clearly, they are not going to line my pockets if that's your question. i'm not going to be reimbursed or compensated in any way from any of the antique packages across the united states, nor will any other district manager. >> where will the money go? >> towards the bottom line they are past our business at the time. >> you don't look too starved to me. >> i name is chuck gregory from springfield, vermont. i'm a volunteer but the vermont workers center. i think i have an answer to the question the last that he posed. the author thomas frank wrote a book called the wrecking crew. and that, he talks about how for the last 40 years republican

operatives have been destroying significant portions of the american infrastructure. i'm a leader have just described her problem is the sort of person who is affected most by the destruction of this particular feed and infrastructure. i've a question for the new hampshire representatives of their congressional delegation and that is considered republican operatives are still trying to destroy parts of the american infrastructure, where does the new hampshire delegation stand in the republican approach to this piece of the american infrastructure? thank you. [applause] >> good evening. i'm glad everyone is here. make me believe in democracy again. my name is tim berio. i work in the real estate industry and i've been a teacher and pretty much worked in about every industry and vermont taking. and i am here to state a few of

the points that have been brought up already. the issue of economic vitality, unique services and products to make businesses thrive. you cannot grow without services. to grow and sustain the must-have business support services in this economy. this is a huge loss, not just in the jobs, which i care about all of you dearly, but in the confidence we are ready to deliver. been in real estate, i've tried several significant companies to downtown white river and as you heard tonight depend on the postal service as part of their business models. we can't cut that and i think the best metaphor i can come up with is the concept of perhaps public transit. we know public transit is not a profitable entity, but a service we need as a society to function and thrive. so yes, the postal service may not have a bottom line due to lack of invasion are changed, however, if you cut these public components come you kill the

dirt in the areas would be the public sector or need to work together in a cooperative model to make that work. finally, i also had the joy of writing out the last.com fallout and has been touched on tonight also, i'd like to leave you with this final five. change or die or cut inside. you can't find your way out of any economic malaise attending. you have to change and innovate and i know you guys can do it. you have to believe in all these people speaking tonight. thank you. [applause] >> my name is wayne martin. i am the president of the american postal workers union in white river junction. [applause] the consolidation plans at the postal services, put are all predicated on changing the service standards. i think you've come out in the

back. alas, this is a rhetorical question because you haven't answered it when anyone else has asked it. how does a decrease in service increase their business? want to just drive people to her competitors? part of the presentation you expect to the service standards to be virtually unnoticed. i think just the netflix customers that have dared service cut in half by the standard change will generate an uprising. [applause] we have a va hospital here in time it ships their medications. i know i have to get my medication through the mail, based on my insurance. how many people is that going to affect when their medication takes three to five to seven

days longer to get to them? and vermont -- in white river junction, we process mail 17 to 19 hours or more a day. we are centralized location at the crossing of two interstates. we affirmed the best product to reduce numbers in the district. we stared to follow and vermont in the montpelier areas. we serve western new hampshire from pittsburgh in the north to acworth in the south. the projection is to know white river junction, the processing into burlington and manchester. one thing somebody brought up earlier, the potential network doesn't show burlington or manchester. so how is that going to affect

the service? is it going to continue to degrade? the last thing -- i do have an actual question. last night at the postal service presentation to the employees, somebody asked, what do you think the public would say to the change in the service standards? mr. the free, delete plant manager said studies show that the public doesn't care. so my question is, what do you think now? [cheers and applause] >> well done. [applause] >> thank you, wayne. next, please. >> i name is cindy was the and i live in wave river junction. i have a family here in my work in the upper valley.

what im is a customer of the postal service. i think what needs to be made very clear is that the closing of white river or as six or manchester is strictly phase one of this postal plan of consolidation. i am standing here before you today as simply a customer, a customer that is angry, a customer that is unsatisfied and a customer that is not going to stand for this. not only to an unexpected phase one, but i do not accept phase two or three. i grew up in retail and various service industries. and when i was a new employee, the first ring i was taught was that the customer is always right. i want my voice to be heard and i want people to know that i am right. this is wrong and i will not stand for it. [applause]

>> my name is ron of order. i am the executive board member to the local 31 national postmasters union and i work up in white river. it is just suspicious to myself and a lot of fellow employees and friends that you're doing the studies that depend on the whole delivery day standard been changed. israel suspicious to us as to why are you putting the cart before the horse? you should be doing it -- is there going to change a standard, change those into your studies. talk people worked up over something else that may not even happen or do know is going to happen or not telling us. [applause] my second statement that i like to make is ms. essler come you said you have plans to process mail 20 hours a day. white river junction processes

17.5 hours. wouldn't be economical to move to a half-hour's worth of mail to white river junction then between 17 and a half hours of mail to burlington or to manchester? can you answer that? [applause] >> thank you for your question. >> essentially what it does it takes a lot more into consideration than just that. it takes into consideration the size of the facility and which ones can consolidate easier -- >> are not asking you to consolidate. and same at two and half hours worth nanometer criteria. >> we'll put that into record is one of the things they want to look at going forward. >> thank you. [applause] >> my name is catherine harwood. my foreign mailing address is p.o. box 94, north stepford, vermont. a very small post office.

it is open for approximately an hour and a half a day. and i have a very big dog in this fight. i am computer literate. i easily send e-mail messages all around the world, received them as well. so why do i maintain a post office talks for my farm in north stanton? i do so because i have learned very recently that electronic communications, e-mails and others are not reliable. they are not universally available when i send them or when i received them for many of the folks that i need to be in contact with. but mostly, and above all, they are neither secure nor private.

[applause] i know when i take a properly addressed, properly sealed envelope to the north stepford post office, i can expect an account times seemed united its flag flying because the post office is open. i expect and always find postmaster holli towle at the window, wearing her usps i.d. and she is able to sell me post office that i need. she is able to take in the mail that i need to post. and i know that i can go and not post office and find the full, fair -- full faith and credit of the united states post office at my disposal. i know that i can count on

seeing that flag in being those ideas wherever i go, wherever iem in these united states. this is a fundamental and extremely critical function of our government to make sure that these communication lines remained open. i know that if i print out her hand write hard copy of whatever it is i need to send an properly address it and pay for that stand and it receives that postmark with the originating post office, i know that it will get where it needs to go safely, speedily and securely. i urge you all to stand behind these excellent post office employees and figure out a way

to keep us all in contact with each other's security, privately and reliably. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> just a quick question if i may make a commitment to allow everybody that wants to contribute tonight to do so. i'm looking at the back of the line. their five-minute short of two hours to be scheduled. however, to the folks who are going to speak, a two-minute limit and will be sure to get everybody's. >> and in this area from plainfield, vermont. and i am here because i'm really tired of talking about the postal service is if we only care about it to make money. the postal service is a public good in the something or committees care. so just like the fire department, we should pay the fire department does not make enough money.

we are going to downsize services of our fire department. the point of the fire department is to put out fires when they happen in our community. same with the road crews. we ever occurs because we want good roads. where the postal service not to make any, but because we care about mail being delivered in communities and care about how much people in our communities depend on that delivery. so i think that we need to reframe this conversation about not just a bottom line in making money, but about the things that are communities need. our public good. i'm from the vermont workers center and i just want to say me and the rest of the folks are going to keep fighting for this public goods. for not going to let this happen. we will fight from everything else like housing and jobs, mail delivery, all of the things that are communities depend on. we are not going to let this get cut. [applause] >> my name is leslie mathews. i live in northfield, vermont. i am a state employee and member of the vermont state employees

association. i happen to work in the department of environmental conservation and one of the things they do in my job is identified plant samples that volunteers around the state are concerned about water quality. so i'm probably one of many people who is depends on the postal service to ship perishable are done for me timely fashion or my work to operate effectively. so i will notice it the standards are degraded. and i fail to understand why if you are going to do a study you don't start with the premise that you are not going to do great services and look at how the post office can operate under that starting premise, instead of trying to look at degrading services at the same time as you are looking in all of other business properties of the postal service. i just want to also say that i

think the solidarity with the other public employees that i work with, including postal workers. i think what is really going on is this is part of the attack on public employees that we've seen in this country in the last couple of years. clap [applause] public employees have been escaped goes for bad decisions made by ceos and some politician that it's gotten us into a financial crisis and into a recession. and i think that we need to protect those public jobs. >> thank you very much. [applause] >> i name is peter quite attack. i am processing clerk in white river junction, but i live in claremont, new hampshire had been a lifelong dedicated postal customer. one of the things that i haven't

heard mentioned today's yesterday when we had our mission at the plant, we talked a fair amount of time about transportation and changes to transformation and consolidation of trips. and this was presented as a means of saving money. but i have to ask you, if you are going to reduce the number of troops coming into a river and if you are going to reduce the number of trips going for white river to the larger processing centers that remain and that those processing centers then have that much for volume of mail, isn't this a question of more than just first class mail? are you going to have to drop your express standards for mala quality mail also? you take all the mail at the same time and processing the same distance, only fewer pickup some longer distances. how does that not affect all of your other classes of mail, including your most profitable classes? >> there is no thing to change the service standards. this is strictly for going to

two to three day, were to add a date to it. there's a pretty comprehensive plans the postal service is looking at going forward to make sure we don't change -- >> so you do have plans in place but there is a first-class letter and express mail piece is picked up at the same rural office at the same time, sent to white river, put on a trip to manchester and there is a plan in place to process that express mail in a timely fashion? >> we have in our addition to keeping those on place must it come up with something different. there haven't been any plans looking forward to change the service on any other class of mail. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> next, please. >> my name is bob and i respectfully request that i withhold my last name. i'm going to be doing a press release before the new hampshire primary, which is coming up next week. i was born in this area. my dad was involved in the administration of this the hospital for 30 some years.

from the time of a child i was taught to develop a great credit, worth that could, et cetera. i worked 10 years doing engineering. peter welch was sitting here. i've done work in reference to powerlines on some land he subdivided in heartland and i've known him. after i left cv, it was because of lack of ability of customers to go on the front door and order anything. it's all like the phone company has been for years. i hit the ground running, building residentially, commercially, had met construction business. by 92 i had an issue with a divorce yet my ex-wife happened to be come -- with the u.s. postmaster of our community. two years later i found she had diverted by irs mail and multiple other pieces of mail and i requested of a u.s. federal postal are assigned to

my issue out of manchester, new hampshire, to get me at a given general store to pick up i.d. numbers of two certified trackable items that i desperately needed him to go see because it was attested to in a legal environment that i signed for, which i never did. he sat in his chrome office overlooking the manchester airport and wrote to me quote on postal team letterhead and signed in ink that i did not have an issue at the u.s. post office, but i have a problem that should be handled in the new hampshire court divorce court and if i have a problem with a ex-wife, i should get my mail on saturday is the rather times in which she was not working. congress vass became instrumental in his first time as a congressman pushiness through to the top congressional liaison. i believe his name is tony leonard. this is so fragile and so revealing of the death sybarite that the devastation done me,

had at least enough decency to tell me he was told not to help me anymore. the amount of mortification of what i earned and what i had for a credit rating and assets is nonrecoverable. now i don't want to splash water on this environment here and i know there's a lot of good basic people who work the average of. i would not be given food chain of our u.s. post office in the right manner, asked for the right steps. if you have someone holding you up to your home with a gun, you expect to dial 9-1-1 to get the right response. if you have a fire as it's been said, you respected the the fire department showed as efficiently as they help you. what happened in my case is this one of the foodchain of the postal service. they dug in. i have a number of attorneys that ropes and the issues to try to take the matter in a different direction and quite

honestly, i have been destroyed by the u.s. postal service. and i have nothing good to say about it. and i respect the people locally, but you know what, i am an employer of people in this area and i have been. and i just want you to realize that has been devastating. and not one person never apologized either from the irs for the postal service. >> thank you. please, please, next. >> my name is prevent trembling and i am from wilder. i've always understood the post office to be a service of the united states government until the recent depression, it has been -- i've always understood it as a service. it is now considered a business. this is only given the opportunity to make what would normally be a rational decision into the sixth sophie's choice about laying off workers and repealing a bill intended to

privatize the u.s. postal service. a release that is what i've understood tonight. so my question to you is since we are short on time, whitey jamaica is watch propaganda film instead of letting this comment about the post office, which is what we are here to do. thank you. >> thank you. >> i appreciate the input. our commitment is to out everybody who has something to say to do that tonight. the presentation is part and informational session if you offer those folks up to date with postal ways perhaps as you are. so that was the purpose. next, please. >> my name is heather, a volunteer with the vermont workers center and for the past several months we been having these people put people first meetings. there'll be one heartland on january 25th -- hartford, i'm

sorry. hartford on january 25th. you know, we had one for another several months ago and what we find there is that we are living in communities, where wages have been stagnant for many, many years. unfortunately, we have had many waves of public workers being laid off in our communities. and the suffering that's going on as a result is heartbreaking. and the effects of iran have only compounded that suffering for many, many people across the state. and it seems to me like many hundreds of thousands of dollars have been put into studies. my question for you is whether or not the postmaster general has conducted a study about what the impact of closing this processing center and many of our rural post offices under which would lay off hundreds smart people in vermont, what would be the company multiplier

effect on our communities? because we know that as more and more vermonters lose their job, that has an effect across many towns. we have seen that you and water very after a rain. so has there been a study done on that? >> be in the states are reviewing this. we don't do much offer an actual economic impact, but we are very interested in going forward and looking at that. >> next question, please. >> it's not a question. anton urgo from packard center. the post office was created under the constitution was amended in 1970 by the postal lack and then there was that 2006 postal accountability act. it seems -- it seems that the idea of the post office is to foster communication in america. that seems to be the idea in the

to to shame. so why doesn't the post office embrace the internet? and instead of hiring people, why don't they hire people so that vermont can be the first e.u. states as was promised in 2006 and perhaps we cannot people putting up high-speed internet lines so that more people could use the internet, order goods and services, have been delivered by the post office and the post office could increase its profitability instead of destroying the lives and incomes of other citizens. and the only thing i have to do with the post office is by stance. that's it. >> we appreciate that. thank you. >> thank you. >> and edward english from woodstock.

i am a customer of the post office and to begin with, i was sitting about three quarters of the way back. i could hear people, but i couldn't hear you, mr. moderator. but that's beside the point. but when it came to this projection that you put on, i couldn't even see it because there is too many people in front of me. and where'd you come come up with your eight something dollars that you are cutting when it wasn't even on that as far as i can see. i couldn't come up with anything on these papers are in your presentation. besides, i don't have a computer. and so i depend on the mail or else i won't have any.

thank you. >> thank you. [applause] >> my name is david kranzler, a member of the vermont workers center. i believe that the postal service is a public good. a public good is something that should serve the needs of our communities, not destroy our communities by shrinking itself in a death spiral. my first question and i apologize because i think it's a rhetorical question is, are you accountable to our communities as the public good should eat? my second question -- i came here and watched her presentation i have to admit i am not a business person, but i am not that time either. [laughter] you said people are so name or e-mail. i sent e-mail because i want the people and communicating with to

get the message quicker. and your response to your customers wanting the people they are communicating with to get the message quicker is to slow down how fast you deliver the mail. [applause] so i look at this presentation and i think, who put together this business plan that the postmaster general or the ceo of fedex? because if i were the ceo of fedex -- [applause] i would say wow, they are letting me put together a business plan for the postal service. the first thing that i would do is figure out the best way to put it into a death spiral. why don't i respond to their customers needs for better service by starting off with a study that predicates were

service. [applause] >> hello, my name is david catrin and i work about the food co-op. i'm a vermonter. i went to school in new york city and i am one of the few who have consciously come back to vermont to live here because i love it so much. when i was in new york, one of the first places i went with the james fairly postal center at sixth avenue. above that is an inscription and it says neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from their appointed rounds. how much are you going to cut and so we can't say that anymore? eventually you will cut yourself out of a job. [applause] >> good evening. my name is jim wynberg. i find myself in a very difficult position. again, i find myself in a very difficult position.

i am a proud retiree at the postal service for over 30 years. what i'd like to say is that in this planet just like to recognize or have someone recognize the fact that currently the state of vermont is serviced out of the white river junction post office. that post office was established actually in the status as mentioned earlier between two major enters dates as well as the east to west carders in the state. we currently go from white river all the way down to spending 10, brattleboro, up to and reduced to go into montpelier as well as into burlington. and we do have one acr that does traveling to maine. all of this right now being centrally located at one time use the facilities at the railroad. we also used the airport out of west lebanon. we are in the middle of the

state. i hope that this has been taken into consideration when we are looking at moving, transferring or doing away with the plant. i know this. i was a transportation manager and white river for many years. i've lived through 5:00 a.m. tease, where we try to get the mail to the rest of our current processing area. it just wasn't possible. the old saying is you just can't get there from here. the other thing is the post office is like into a big back-to-back games. all of the processing plants are the dots, a very, very old friend of ours told us this one and the only way to make that total picture, to give you a vital postal service is to connect those dots. the connection of the stats is a transportation. i think we should keep the white river junction plant open. >> thank you.

[applause] >> minus four assignment. i am from wild vermont and i have a couple prongs to my question. first, i want to inform you that i been a social worker and teacher for 36 years and few communities within the area of this plant. and i think i can speak on behalf of the hundreds of other people who do my job in the thousands that we serve. they are among the more vulnerable people in our communities. so one product to my question is, can you assure that their needs can be met as they are now at this new plan that you have? my next part of my question at a point to you is from what you see here tonight and what you're hearing about people doing this all over the country, do you think we are going to back down? i can answer that. we will not back down. and then, i think this will take a little bit more calculation on your part, but in a few areas of cost but i'm hoping you could get back to me and explain.

the salary of the workers that will be displaced, will there be any change their? what about the mileage as they are displaced to another post office and impact on the environment of the further traveling? .. >> thank you. [laughter] just to follow up and make one point on all of those comments and the questions as well towards the fate of our employees, please note that we have a hard bargaining agreement with all of the reunions and we have a collective bargaining agreement without labor unions that we always support that. next, please.

>> banditti perse housecoat of the center for sustainable thate step for center, vermont and i run a small sliding scale clinis serving mostly working-class and poor people for almost 20 years. i rely on being able to walkst e across the street to my localmei post office and put medicine int the mail and how they get there the next next day. but i'm actual notere t t tk day i am here to talk about something that you should be using so much in this fight which is the power of the love letter. i started writing letters to friends starting at age nine and route three or four letters every week. my friends all over the world and pen pals and the thrill of opening a letter where you see the person's handwriting is something that e-mail and text messaging cannot even begin to match. you can't cut out a little peter hart or put sprinkles in or put a little perfume on the letter

to get a text message. you could be capitalizing on this. i don't really like that word. [laughter] the reason i moved to vermont is because i married a man who lived here when i was living in seattle and we rode 50 letters back-and-forth in a five month period before he sent me an engagement ring through the mail and i knew it was coming and asked the postman to wait a minute while i opened it and had him put it in my hand. >> that's wonderful. [applause] next, please? >> i'm back. in many businesses in this country there's a steadfast rule that if it isn't in hard copy on paper, it never happened if we get rid of the mail system or slow it down, you know, that's

going to destroy mortgage documents and things like that. it just can't have been and it has to be reliable in fact and i know for certain i personally can't afford the 8-dollar fedex one to three day service or the 20 dollar ups service the u.s. postal service will get there in the same amount of time for 44 cents. >> thank you. >> it's also a federal offense to mess with the male if we don't supply any federal funding into the system and that doesn't make sense to me. i would like to know why we don't do that. sorry you said we could come back to the other one and go again and i am. spec i also limit you to one

question and i've already heard three. >> sorry. there was an article in the paper saying 35% of the service is done on line and a country where the majority rules that would mean 65% is not done on line so i think we need to keep that in mind. >> thank you. >> i guarantee when i send that letter as it stands today my letter will get there safely before the january 19th date. >> appreciate that. thank you very much. [applause] >> i'm a school teacher been teaching for 32 years. i find that i agree with almost every person that came up here tonight and said the post office is a service, not a business and the fact that this is timed at

about the same time that we probably have double-digit employment in our country i find it incredibly tone deaf that this is happening right now, right here. our representatives from vermont i'm proud to say represent real people like myself. but there is an increasing tone deafness in washington to the play of real life people and this feels to me like one more attack on working people, period. >> appreciate that. thank you. [applause] >> i'm usually her pretty well. i'm going to have to talk awfully quick to get this and in two minutes. first of all, some of the most visible employees the postal service has are the carriers and the city carriers and these people are genuine heroes. there isn't a day that passed in the history of the postal service and i assure you know

they haven't rescue people that are falling, they haven't helped people with heart attacks, they've rescued people from fire, it's just an everyday occurrence and they are truly heroes. my second thing is the question ms. kessler. i assume you also did this for burlington and manchester. the process all of the male in the state of vermont else told you and it did a very economically and it did it on a one day service standard. well worth the benefits and closing burlington and keeping white river junction open? where are the figures for that? >> we haven't concluded that study at this point. >> will we have another meeting when you get those figures to get your? >> if we go forward with in the of the other studies that are around the manchester. >> when you are saying is you've already decided is if it is

going to close it is going to be white river rather than burlington. my apologies by the way. >> i think that is the point is there has been the decision made and after the china we also agree not to make any determination by any of these consolidations to allow sufficient time for them to also continue the dialogue that they have on the service. >> thank you. [applause] >> i have a home-based business in heartland. i grow in my own organic garden seeds of heirloom vegetables that are specifically suited for growing in the new england area that is my service area. this time of year i go to my heart and a post office almost daily and find the postmistress i know very well and even though

she knows i'm not a mystery shopper she asks me anything liquid, perishable, fragile or hazardous? of course my seeds are time sensitive so i am very invested in the surface not been reduced but some thoughts on this, the post office could be if it were free of the onerous burden of the 5 billion annual the required to prepay towards the pension fund perishable embedded in the very name of the united states postal service. fragile the lives of the people who would lose their jobs in the midst of this fragile barely recovering economy. and hazardous, the kind of short-term thinking that has led to the consideration of this consolidation plan.

thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> my name is steven. i new hampshire resident with but i've worked in the white river plant for many years. i pay federal taxes and vermont taxes even as a new hampshire citizen. about a decade ago the postal service which a lot of the volume of mail to the manchester facility and it was an abomination. the overnight mail took nearly a week to receive. the roads are not conducive to manchester or burlington for the on-time delivery for much of vermont. i'm a decorated veteran and i

have served in several capacities as a federal employee most of which is with the united states postal service today i am currently listed as an employee but was an early victim of one of your studies. to responsible employers discriminate against disabled employees? again as an early victim in your last study i wonder what's going to happen next to my brothers, my union brothers within the postal service and how any of these things are going to impact the continued value of the united states postal service. >> thank you. appreciate you coming. [applause] >> i've brought media which is a company that produces

documentary films, and i am here tonight because i am very concerned about the changes that are being proposed for the postal service for a variety of reasons. our business is very dependent because we live in a rural area to be able to have access to a service that is overnight that is the reliable. i use the postal service often to mail out film and also mailing out tapes that have been filmed editors in new york and that kind of thing. the changes will affect my company, and as we've heard from other people here, it will probably affect their company as well. and i think it is shameful at a time that we are in the middle of an economic downturn that these sorts of proposals are being made to actually cut jobs. we are in a part in history when we need to be looking at job creation, and this kind of program that you are proposing will wind up having a ripple effect and affect other businesses in our area as well, so i hope he will take into

consideration. and i've done a documentary that actually looks at liberalism and privatization and i see what you are doing as a form of that. you are leading towards that because you are no longer going to be competing and providing the services as well as places like fedex and that will eventually end up causing the privatization i believe of the postal service and i think that that will be quite a horrible thing to have happen. >> thank you. [applause] >> my name is joyce and i live in lebanon new hampshire. my name is joyce and i live in west lebanon and hampshire. i've been listening to all the comments but wasn't going to say anything because i share so many of the thoughts such as the problems degrading the postal

system to try to keep things going. but the main reason i decided to say something is it occurred to me no one has mentioned all the people on the other side of the river in the upper valley that rely on the white river distribution center for their mail. i have a post office box in white river and i also have one in hanover. the hospital was there. no one has mentioned all the people in new hampshire that are going to be affected by cutting down the distribution. [applause] >> thank you. >> good evening. local 301. thank you very much for all of your patients tonight. appreciate it. i just wanted to add one thing that i haven't heard and i've heard a lot of great things tonight. the postal service for the 28 years i've been employed as a mail handler in manchester new

hampshire and elsewhere has been hand-wringing of the degradation of the first-class mail as a product for the usps and in those 28 years i've seen a lot of great commercials on priority mail. i think they've been very successful in restoring priority mail service but i get to see the postal service in those 28 years spend 1 penny on trying to reinvigorate first-class mail service. i don't believe first class mail service is a dead product. i think the postal service has done an awful lot to encourage the first class mail, but my comment would be this. perhaps some of this money would be better spent advertising first-class mail as a benefit on fraga for customer fraud or identity theft or a thousand other reasons why first-class

letter for 45 cents is a whole lot better deal than paying for your your bills on the internet and i would appreciate being added to the record as a recommendation on the way to reinvigorate the postal service. >> thank you. [applause] >> the final question, comment of the night. >> my name is michael coming and with my wife and my two sons operating in vermont i'm going to come at this in a little bit of a different way. i was here this afternoon for the mailers meeting and made some comments and would be willing to speak to people more. as a major i know a lot of the nuances on the structure in light seen where things might be tweaked which i would be glad to share. but i realize it's a business. it's a business to be without the vitality of the post office

cease to exist. we provide a service to a lot of small companies, businesses, organizations, that type of thing. we are doing things for them to earn them the maximum amount of discounts they can to invite them to continue to the best benefits. for our congressional delegation, you're the ones that are going to be able to get some of the hard answers to the many questions that exist. we can read things. we can't discern how true they are. you will be able to ask the hard questions to get the hard answers back and act on them appropriately on our behalf. this is a publication in the united states post office that we receive as a meal entity. one of the first stories and hear the postal service in fiscal year 2011 with

$5.1 billion loss. this is set to be after the pre-funding requirements. it also goes on to say the total 2011 mail volume decline by the 20 billion pieces of mail. as 3 billion pieces less, $5 billion lost are we losing $2 for every piece of mail that we send? again, some of the questions that need to be answered. where are the numbers and what do they really mean? okay. i'm going to just leave you with one last thing. we've got to lighten up here now. how much paper does it take to buy one postage stamp? >> if you don't know, this is your receipt for one stamp it costs 44 cents.

>> let me say to everybody that came up this evening -- i'm sorry. one more person here. your name? >> [inaudible] i was born in switzerland and i came to this country i was 18 and spent some time in canada. we've got the best system there is in the whole wide world. i know because i was at the bahamas for five years. we sent packages to my grandson that was in the marines, and within a week -- so please don't lock it up. [laughter] [applause] if i may as we close out tonight, thank you to everybody who's thoughtful, professionally presented comments and questions

were very much appreciated. it's a common theme i heard this evening. a common theme i heard is the regard with which our postal people are held within the community and continues to do that to the postal employees as we feel might well feel that doing the remarkable job thank you for all that he do and continue to the great job. everybody safe travels, thank you. [inaudible conversations]

>> wentz --

wednesday, the white house hosted a forum on jobs and bringing them back to the united states. a forum focused on medium and small sized companies and the challenges they face like raising capital, access to credit, and lack of a skilled work force. this is an hour. [inaudible conversations] >> well, thanks and thanks to john for that introduction and for all of the work that we're doing together to focus on manufacturing and now to focus on bringing that manufacturing back to this country. we have a great panel, and we're going to ask for some of your questions, and we'll take as many as possible. i do want to say a few words about the small business administration. one of the things the president

said this morning is what we want to do with large and small companies is give those folks who choose to manufacture, who choose to provide services here all the tools they need to be able to grow their business that means for small businesses financing's been an issue over the past several year, and we, at the sba, provide loan guarantees, had a record year last year, making more loans than in sba history, and we're all over the country working with $5,000, and -- working with 5,000 banks. another thing i want to make sure you're aware of is we just renewed the small research and development grants, and it was the first time in about six years we got permanent congressional authority, and it was a bipartisan bill that

passed so don't let anybody tell you nothing's happening because we got support for small businesses getting sbir grants. it's $2.5 billion, and this is for you and your small business to do research that will help you innovate here in this country. we have an array of things including activity in the advanced manufacturing partnership designed to make sure that entrepreneurs can continue to innovate here, that large companies can have supply chains full of some of the best entrepreneurs. lastly, we'll talk a little bit about supply chain, and we heard from larger companies. there are opportunities for small companies in the supply chains of the larger companies as they bring back production, and we want to ensure those connections get made, so we have started the american supplier initiative. it involves everything from

match making, which we do -- we run the federal government's small business supply chain which is about $100 billion doing state of the art activity for the state department for instance, and a lot of those suppliers are able to be available and are interested in doing commercial products as well, so let's get started in our panel. you've heard some of the stories mentioned by the president earlier, but i think if it's all right we'll start with the basics again being the fact based analyst. >> it's actually harry. >> pardon? >> harry. it's wrong on there. >> oh, i'm sorry. >> that's okay. >> how can you frame this for us? what is happening, and you said things earlier to the president. we had just some of the basic facts, but what are the key metrics that you can share with us about how the economics have

changed? >> okay. i think hal covered that somewhat on the previous panel. >> yep. >> the message that we also carry is that the costs in china and other countries, but especially china because they're the 800 pound gorilla in offshoring, that they are rising rapidly, and their exchange rates expressed in dollars are going up 25% a year while u.s. employment costs go up 2% or 1% a year, and therefore, even though they are starting lower when you go up that fast every three years, you double, and so they're approaching a point rapidly where their total costs are close enough to the u.s. total cost that when you include -- let's say their cost of manufacturing gets close enough to the u.s. cost of manufacturing, that when you include what we call the total cost of ownership, when you include the duty and the freight and the packaging and the

inventory costs to all of the products en route, the property risk, the travel to go see them, all the extra costs not the case when you deal with your supply chain from somebody locally, then when the companies recognize all of those costs, then they are much more likely to make the decision to bring the work back here, so as hal pointed out, you know, our cost is here, the supply cost is coming up here, there's still a difference and will be a difference in 2015, the year of convergence, unless the companies recognize this total cost because that typically is 20%-30% of the total costs, these hidden costs, that many of the companies don't recognize. as an example that i gave this morning, one of the major aerospace companies i talked to, i asked how they make their decision about what to make here and what to offshore, and they said, realm, here's an example.

it sounded like a thousand pound housing, and we have it made in the u.s., and then we air freight it to china to be machined, air freight it back to be plated, air freight it back, and then back to the u.s. to have it installed. when we decide whether to do it all here in the u.s. or do this, we only look at the prices from the suppliers. we do not include the air freight. we do not include the carrying cost or the risks involved. if you're not looking at all the costs, you can't make the right decisions. we're a non-profit organization, and we provide a free software so that the companies can use it to make the right decision and recognize the extra 20% or 30% of the costs, and therefore more often and sooner decide to bring more of the work back to the united states, either to their own facilities or to people in the u.s. supply chain. >> okay.

so, bruce, you've become now the poster child for an industry which everybody thinks is dead in this country, furniture, and you saw your own family's business move overseas after it was sold, and then after years of being in that market, being in asia, you told me it occurred to you that, you know, people wanted american furniture, and you could come back and do that, and like a great entrepreneur, he said to his wife, we're going to go home, make our own furniture, and put every penny we own in it. she said last month to him, yes, we've done that. mission accomplished on that. he's back in north carolina employing people, i think, that

you had had in the family business and in the same factory as the family business. what makes a sector of furniture now able to be produced back in this country, and how do you see growing that business? >> when we sold our company back in 1997, we employed almost 1400 people, and over the subsequent years, all of that production was moved overseas and all of the capital investment was dismantled and sold and i subsequently went to asia myself to start sourcing products for furniture manufacturers in asia, specifically in china, so it was a problem of dismantling a $50 billion furniture industry, and as the years went by, i saw the

cheap abundant labor in china diminish and in 2006, there were serious labor shortages in china, especially in some of the labor intensive industries, and everything that is systematic of labor shortages which is poor quality, increased cycle times, delivery times were horrendous, and that was connected with changing currency and increased in shipping costs, and in 2010, i realized some of the ancillary costs involved that my customers were seeing, and they were starting to capture, it made sense to start manufacturing back here in the united states again, especially the kind of furniture that i was accustomed

to making in the years pass, and when i got in the business in 1994, there were literally dozens and dozens of people who made great furniture, and that's all but disappeared in the united states, and many people don't realize what a fine piece of furniture looks like anymore. i realized i could not only make a very competitively priced product, but i could make something that the chinese were probably unwilling to make, and i could make the finest furniture with traditional cabinet joint, the finest purposeture in the world using state of the art technology and do it with american worker that is highly productive, and mentioned that the american worker was 3.4 times more productive than the chinese worker will, and i would contend when you're in the higher labor jobs that differential's much

greater, so those were the things that went through my mind that gave me pause to say, yes, i can do it here again, and i had the opportunity and had the very good fortune to work with carolina trust bank in lincoln, north carolina, a small community bank, but they agreed to do all of our equipment financing, which was very, very helpful, and you mentioned the sba loans. when my banker first when he mentioned those loans, i said, oh, no, this is an erroneous mountain of paperwork, but he indicated that that paperwork had been reduced drastically and -- [applause] yeah, it's really -- and he's actually -- here's a banker that's touting an sba loan saying the paperwork was not too much anymore, and he -- as a matter of fact, this particular

bank had done quite a few sba loans in the past, and he was able to identify another loan program that had a 90% guarantee , that was very, very helpful. it was not sba, but it was another federal loan guarantee that -- or actually the federal government provided the money for the state to make the guarantees. i think that was the mechanism, but capital continues to be a very, very crucial. when you raise equity, and private equity like lincoln furniture did, we offer and you seek to sell a limited number of investors, minimum investment of $50,000, which is very, very difficult, especially when you don't have anything to show them, but we did run out of money, but there continues to be -- and i've spoke to karen about it, there continues to be for small businesses issues with

capital, especially working capital. i think some of the programs that are available now, you can get really good equipment financing, and we got all the equipment financing we needed, but working capital issues, we're not talking about money that i want somebody to give me, but i'm talking about money that would give us a comfort zone and comfort level to help us operate in a manner that we wouldn't have to be always ringing our hands about the capital issues and not talking a lot of money either, just a quarter million dollars to a half a million dollars, and for a lot of small businesses like mine, just to have that cushion would be a great help. >> well, i thank you very much of the mention of the sba particularly. you know, the president has all across the administration tested us with reducing and simplifying, and when i got the job, my husband said to me, oh,

sba, too much paperwork, too much time. well, now it's from this much paper work to this much, and we reduced the cycle time as well, so long turn around time is in the days, not even the weeks and the months. we are, i think, recognizing that particularly in the past few years, there's a lot of small businesses out there with the interest in expanding, but they don't necessarily meet all of the criteria because they've just suffered through a couple of tough years. we will provide now, and this is one of the announcements of today, a 90% loan guarantee on certain insourcing, and i'll have you sand up because i bet there's somebody in the audience like bruce who is looking for a -- an extra piece of capital,

and we have a working capital line that we just simplified as well called the cat lines, and we have 5,000 banks, as i said, working out there working with us on exactly this effort, and this is a place where government can come in and put the wind at the back of small businesses. mary? >> well -- >> wait a minute. how many of you have made a call to a call center, it's been picked up, and you realize you're probably talking to somebody in this country? i don't know. recently, you're begun a trend. >> we've begun a trend. i've been helping as a consultant and now as a ceo that's completely on shore helping companies come back to the united states. i'm a founder of jobs for america, and jim also help started it, we're dedicated to bringing 100,000 jobs back to the context center world. it's not working over there, and i think, you know, many of us have had a good call over there,

but it's not extensive or repeatable often. the reason call centers went over there 10-20 years ago no longer exists. it's the easy calls we sent there, password resets. those are gone; right? they are automated. what's left is the complex problem solving skills, the ones you need good communication skills, and if we have a hard time understanding them, just think, they are struggling to understand us. there's a focus on mid-quarter earnings and turn the focus on unit cost and cost per minute, and they are not looking at total cost of ownership. when we -- we have an operating model to help companies show them how they can do it 15% cheaper in the united states. they take audiotape of the costs into account, and so the fact they pay half the cost in labor costs don't make any difference if it takes three calls to get

the problem solved. that's simple math. in addition, the time is 52% to 100% higher there, again, cost per minute goes up by the wayside. that just does not make economic sense in an operating model. there's many other things like if you have not solved a customer problem, what's the difference to cross another product? what's the focus on your brand? i think people have done a lot of brand damage by putting their call centers over there. i mean sometimes with your credit card company, you talk to them once a year. don't you want that 4-10 minute call to be an emotional connection with the customer? i think you do. my company's dedicated to improving the customer brand, improving the experience, and long term loyalty because it's not about short term profit. it's about long term loyalty and liability of the companies, so, you know, it's not cheaper to do business over there. our customers don't like it, and, in fact, a lot of call

senders have come back. 3% of all working americans work in call centers right now. only 12% of call centers are offshore. three years ago, 30% of all high-tech call centers were offshore. it's 12% now i think. they are coming back, but nobody's talking about it. here's why. number one, people don't want to talk about the mistake they made; right? we have people up here who have been completely honest and said, hey, mistakes were made. we shouldn't have been offshore. mistakes have been made. also, they can't -- they may have come back, but they can't say so because another division that has not -- they don't toot their own horn because another division is offshore, and it confuses the brand if you say you brought the calls back, and that's not the case with another division of the same company, and lastly, a lot of these companies come back see it as a competitive edge. go ahead. leave the calls offshore: you're hurting yourself.

you know, i think that a lot of people coming back, there's a lot of examples, and, you know, my cfo and i all the time silt down with companies showing them the new operation, and we're happy to do so even if they don't come to the outsourcing company, you know, just happy to bring them back. >> that's great. i come grt great state -- from the great state of maine with the ll bean customer experience, and there's recall a proven connection between the customer and because of those customer service people. >> well, the fact is, also, it's not a minimum wage job anymore. you know, what's left of the contextually sensitive, the average call center worker makes an average of $15 an hour, maybe some in the $10, but they go up to 100,000 for technical support. they are not minimum wage jobs. in fact, we have a number of people who have worked there,

and their family now is in middle class. they both work in a call center on the phone, and middle class. i have four generations working in the call center. it's great for older people. they have great mature judgment. i had a woman on the phone who is 92 # years old, and she recruits for the army and does a good job at it. >> there you go. >> these are not minimum wage jobs. they are harder complex jobs, and what's requires, i think, and i mentioned this to the president is we need the high school education graduation up. some jobs require -- all of them require high school communication skills, written, oral, complex, hard thinking, critical problem solving, and when i walk into cities and frequently, i walk into the major cities with 50% or 60% graduation rates from high school, i can't be there. i move, and i sect a city that has 85% to 90% graduation rates. we have to think about being competitive within the united states, and we'll start

competing for those jobs as they come back. >> well, that leads, i think, john into some of the things that you mentioned earlier about work force training. i will say master lock, i mean, when you think about it, how is it a master lock. we know that brand. you're producing in milwaukee and one of the things, i think, the president talked about when he introduced you this morning, he said that you're at capacity now for the first time in a long time, and what you said is, boy, i need more skilled workers. i've got business. i can do business here. i can ship is overseas. i need to make sure i'm working with the community colleges and with others for building the skilled work force. >> absolutely. i'm john, owner of masterlock, and we make lobs, about 65

million a year. that's big, that's a lot of locks. i had the theory people threw them in the ocean, and that's why we make so many a year. [laughter] our story is a little different. we're a medium sized company, part of a new york stock exchange traded company called fortune brands home and security, and if you take master lock and go back to the late 1990s like a lot of other companies as a matter of survival, we outsourced many of our jobs to china and to mexico. what happened back then is we had a facility with about 1200 in milwaukee, wisconsin, that we kept open. we kept about 300 people, i think, at the time, and now i can say we're up to 400 people and growing. some of the challenges, i mean, you heard about the economics. the economic thing is in our favor, and we're moving jobs back, and we feel good about that. when you're a businessman making

those decision, economics plays a huge role in the decision to move jobs back, and so we're seeing that dynamic change for all the reasons that you heard today, and we won't go back into that, and some of the things we talked about today, well, what could make that happen faster? i thought i'd share with you the challenges that we've had and we talked about earlier today is just our access to skilled labor, and that's something that is very important to us, and we talk about skilled labor, we are talking about machine build and repair, talking about electricians, talking electronics people, tool and dye makers, and we're talking about a higher level of skilled people than what we had ten years ago. the jobs we bring back now are back to a higher tech facility than we had during the late 1990s. the challenges put in front of us is how do you go out and recruit skilled trades people? there's a couple of things that have gone on with the transition of manufacturing out of the

u.s., a lot of people have lost their jobs, and a lot of those people were skilled trades and they found other things to do. you have a new generation up and coming going to high school, and they don't have shop class anymore, and it's hard to aspire to something you've never been introduced to. we have those challenges as well. how do you get the younger generation, how do you get the students to want to aspire to go into manufacturing and to have that job because we have a gap. we have a real gap in the country. if i look at the skilled trades people, we're approaching 55 plus in terms of an age group because of the gap, and we have to fill that gap, and if we're going to bring back joshes faster in the country, we have to do some pretty intense training, and some of the things we've done is partnered with many of the local technical colleges and some of the universities. we've done that in terms of being on their boards, participating and how to build and finance that, and then allowing people to enter those programs to earn an apprentice

and journeymanship after five years of training. it's a long process, but at the end of the day, it benefits us and them. we've been on that road for awhile, and so we talked about things this morning about how to get better training, faster training, and how can we make manufacturing a business that kids aspire to coming out of school, so that's really critical. >> you know, i was in minneapolis, we were announcing a partnership with the national association of manufacturers on the right skills now, which is part of our jobs for america, and we're teaching entrepreneurial skills as well as manufacturing skills. this was cmc machine, and the community college folks were saying that they are having trouble recruiting, and the reason they are having trouble recruiting is they go home and the mom says, you know, i want my kid to do computers. we're standing in the middle of the manufacturing floor, and the

operator said i am running a computer. i'm running a computer that happens to be attached to a machine. this is a computer job. it's not the same kind of manufacturing as before. we have a lot of work to do, i think, to change that fear that you'll go into a skill and there won't be a job there, and this effort and this moment and all of you who are telling your stories and conveying the message have a lot to do with helping our youth and next generation get in a pathway that successfully takes them to good paying jobs that's going to stay here, and that's something that this administration has a lot of engagement with, a lot of program around, and we're highly committed and succeeding, i think, in building the foundation to do that. >> i have an idea that ties together the need for financing and the need for more skilled

work force and the sba. [laughter] the idea would be that for companies that can't get loans conventionally, not an abc credit, but a d credit, not an f, but a d, and if the sba guarantees the loan for every, let's say $250,000 or $500,000 worth of loan guaranteed, they have to have one registered apprentice, okay? you can't get the money on your own. if we're going to guarantee it for you, you have to contribute something to society by training the people that help you or help some other company in the future. >> i think that's a great idea, and it does tie together specifically a lot of the things, i think, we've heard from folks here and the labor, this morning, committed to apprenticeship as well, and the department of labor with a good

apprenticeship program where we have capital available and grants available. i'm going to turn to the audience for a whole set of questions, so think about that, and then i'll turn back to the panel with more questions for them. yes? >> just such a tremendous story to have been part of the 2009 forum, and meeting you firsthand, take all the suggestions that came out of the session into action, and we created the results -- >> your name? >> i'm -- [inaudible] just applauding you for the great progress. >> you had a long laundry list in the 2009 time of things to get done. >> [inaudible] i think one of the things that i'm delighted to hear in this panel is a focus on industry. much of the discussions today has been focused on

manufacturing jobs, and we doe know, though, that 80% of employment today in the united states is a sector focus role. a couple things to consider. the first is as we are focusing on building skills, there's a suggestion of connects community colleges that i'd like to suggest that we take half of the 280,000 identified teachers who are identified as not employed in the job, and suggest they be able to learn how to teach people job skills, and in the service sector, for example, if we could take and teach those folks on how to deliver those job skills in a virtual manner, what we're able to do then is educate people without any constraint around a brick and motar facility because they can connect from their computer at home and skill themselves up to be able to perform these new

service oriented jobs. >> a great idea. one of the things i know you do and others do, you have a lot of home based call centers. >> yes, thank you. we have 22,000 folks today in the united states who actually do call center work from home, and that number, since we had the opportunity to be together in 2009 doubled. we were 11,000 when we left, and we're now 22,000, and we expect another 8,000 workers in the united states alone in 2012, and so the second idea then is really to be focused first like we talked about first on skills, but then second on the work. i'd like to encourage the small business administration as well as the government as large to look at what's being done today that has a belief that it has to be done in a brick and motar facility. what we find is many of the fortune 500 companies today are

doing is they are looking at ways in which work can be virtualized so the work can be placed with a worker as opposed to making workers have to actually commute or relocate to a community in order to be able to find the jobs. we know the market has challenges today and it's difficult for people to relocate. virtualization of work allows us to actually move the job or the work that's being done to where the worker actually resides african-american allows them -- and allows them to do it in a green oriented manner and performing from home. that's a suggestion to make. let's look for ways for work considered to be done in a building today, but figure out how to virtualize that work and bring it home. >> i'm glad you mentioned that, bringing it back home is 15% cheaper is the work at home, and for businesses, it's 30%

cheaper, but for the employee, for the employee, they actually see a pay raise to their cost base, at least $6,000 or $8,000 if it's not being taxed. >> [inaudible] not having to buy yourself a professional wardrobe really puts more money in the pockets of american workers, and we have over 100,000 people express interest last year in being able to work from home. >> we see this over and over, and when we look at entrepreneurs here is you can reinvent how work is done and how we do it here because technology will allow you to connect everybody securely in the home for instance, so we can, you know, we can continually look for new opportunities. yes, gentleman there. >> i'm a manufacturer from los angeles, california. we still make clothing in the

united states. we all sell to wal-mart, but it's a department store and those jobs are coming back. like we heard earlier, there's issues in china, raising prices, a drop in quality. we found over a year ago that we're having more and more difficulties with the products we were bringing out of china, and we looked into -- we maintained some production in the united states, and we looked at how to do more. one of the issues facing us -- there's a number of issues facing us, but one of the issues -- more training that's horrible in california, the state board of education, is that every child who does graduate, and not many do graduate in california, from high school, will be trained to go on to a four year education, not to become a electrician, so

we need that. we need to deal in a relocate -- realistic way with immigration. we, as a country, have looked past immigration as an issue. predominantly latinos in california, they are feeding their families, mostly illegals, but american apparel companies have a very large reach of a t-shirt company was rated of 5,000 jobs in the city of los angeles. there's food companies throughout this country that are raided on a regular basis by those losing thousands of jobs. they cannot find a replacement. we need to be realistic. we need a work visa for them

that's manageable and realistic for the problems we face. >> thank you for that. i think you are following some of the immigration discussions that the president has put forth some prammed on that -- proposals on that, and i think there's a lot of agreement that these are issues that we need to get solved. yes? >> [inaudible] >> please stand up so everybody can see and hear you. >> our company has been manufacturing products in the u.s., and we have the largest sleeping bag factory in the country and we've been bringing jobs back and expanding our plant here in alabama, and one of the big issues we have is being competitive in the global market is materials that we can't get in the u.s. that we're competing with other countries working in free trade zones. i know the furniture -- i don't know if you bring in some raw

materials here from the u.s., but how can we bring the costs down to compete against international companies that are working? >> you used to be able to buy those things, but they all went to china. i have the same thing with deck decorative hardware and drawer glides i can't get in the united states. well, there's some made in the united states, but they are very, very expensive. same with decorative hardware, and there used to be dozens of manufacturers in the united states for those, and now there's now. that's a good point. >> right. dara, did you want to say something to that? >> yeah, so we have some ideas about helping you with some of the sourcing, and also if you wanted to produce some of that in-house, how you might, you know, get some of the financing to do that. one of the things that you wanted to mention was the level

playing field -- did you want to talk about that a little bit? >> well, you know, there is a level playing field now. we can definitely compete with the chinese and with the other asian country, and it's going to be interesting to see those people that will also take these initiatives and manufacture furniture again and other consumer products in the united states. one thing not mentioned today is purposeture industry in china -- furniture industry in china was really sub subsidized, and they are initiatives to sell in china, and china businessmen got very wealthy with it and those generous subsidies in china have all but disappeared, and now they incentivize these same

factories to sell products domestically so you get subsidies that used to be for exports, and now there's subsidies for domestic sales, and that will really, really impact not only furniture, but all consumer products here. we'll be selling furniture to china, no question about it. they love -- asians love american-made products, and there's a really appetite for it. cost is not an issue. >> so made in america is hot. how many of you have sort of gotten that sense? yeah. >> made in america means a better america. >> yes. >> i'm james, ceo of king 12 wear, and it's interesting, i had a fascinating day watching the different journeys of different companies, and we find ourselves now in a place, and i can speak on the behalf of the outdoor industry as well where, you know, certainly for our company, we got through the

working capital situation, innovation platform, built a factory in portland, oregon, launched a new category for steel toed footwear, and last year, we had 95 people, went pass the 100 person mark for the company, and the challenge we have now is not so much around the dynamics that we're talking about today. when i look to the future, you say made in america, building products in america, how do you protect that? there's brands appealing around the world, brands like the north face, and in our term, they are the big guy, and right down to specialized footwear, and the notion of protecting not only innovation, intellectual property, and quite frankly, just the counterfeiting dynamic is rampant. it's not just product for product, making an item look like ours and selling it, but there's the digital platform set

up quickly, the product gets to market quickly, faster than ever, by the way, and our ability, you know, the obstacle course called the opportunity course we're on just when we figured one thing out, we look ahead and say, gosh, we got hit with this. it's interesting to see what the small business administration can do and once we built this in ten years we're wildly successful, how do we protect that platform so there's a cost to innovation and the challenge here i heard this morning, the software you created, does it take into consideration the mid and long term cost of innovation and that innovation evaporating? if it does, we have to deal with that. >> do you want to talk to that? >> how many of you heard we're supposed to be an innovation country? >> right. >> innovation country, yeah? the implication is that we should innovate, you know, be like apple. we innovate, and then we forget about manufacturing, and in apple's case, i think 25,000

employees are in the u.s., something like a half a million to three quarters are in china actually making the things and shipping them all over the world. apple has a trade deficit so to speak. if you want to innovate, apple's case it worked, but in general, it doesn't work well when you separate engineering from manufacturing. there's a reporter at harvard business school that shows when you get -- if this is manufacturing and engineering together and you let the manufacturing come here, the effectiveness of the communication, the effectiveness of collaboration drops off dramatically, and we've seen that with cases where it's been brought wac -- back by ge, ncr, and others, bringing them back and putting together the innovation works. if you don't bring manufacturing back, the logical solution soon is that the engineering goes back there too to get the efficiency, and now you have

neither of them, and you have nothing. we think it's essential to keep -- to be an innovation country, we have to be a manufacturing country. >> i won't say it's a big part of the advanced manufacturing partnership, which is universities, some corporate leaders, and the administration working to the on keeping manufacturing, doing advanced manufacturing, and keeping the pilot stage of that right after innovation when you start to scale up, keeping that here because it's really in that first scale up stage that a lot of innovation gets well understood and codified, but if you do that elsewhere, that financial manufacturing is there. but 23 that ex-- but if that expertise happens here, it's an innovation for a new set of jobs here. we're very focused. i think we can take a couple

more questions. in the back. >> i'm bill, founder and ceo of collaborative consultants. we recently opened up a domestic development sent in wassau, wisconsin, and i vacation in maine in the summer by the way. my question -- well, we're trying to bring technology jobs from india and china back to the united states, and so my question is to you, harry. you stated that you believe there's a hidden cost in manufacturing by having jobs oversea, and do you feel that same cost is in i.t. services as well? >> i think it's more difficult to measure and more functionally dependent. in manufacturing, it's easy to measure the duty and the freight and the carrying cost of the inventory and the things. this is just a series of things

that are relatively easy to measure whereas with services, it's a greater question about the relative productivity of the two, and there's still travel cost to check on them, still intellectual property risk, but it's -- i mean, i would, on that -- on the subject of service in general, i would give way to the experts here who noted that it's about equivalently costly offshore and domestically and domestically the quality is higher and the customer satisfaction is higher. i'd be glad to meet with you after and start working on that project with you if you want a better solution. >> as a former ceo, it's exactly the same. different metric, but the same issues. the communication issue is about what we wanted and arguing back and forth with product and what we meant by -- it was more

amazing than i.t. to me when i ran the major i.t. operations, so i think it's very, very similar. >> [inaudible] we took on two projects recently that we've taken two sets of jobs going to i india, and we got them to the united states and house them in wassau, wisconsin. >> one of the things i really encourage people is if you're offshore now, go ahead and do the same activity be it a call sent r or whatever on shore to look at the productivity line of codes and the output and you can really make a comparison. when you ship every over there, it's really hard to tell. >> thank you. >> i.t. outsourcing -- we do software development and data services and stuff like that, and we compete for work that goes offshore. actually, i -- if it's the same

collaborative consulting, we've worked together. we're a customer. >> that's good. we like when business gets done here, you know? [laughter] the idea is that it's really -- it's the dream. we -- so the problem that we solved with on shore is we figured out how to retool under employed and dislocated worker with the advanced software development jobs by very focused boot camp training. in rural america there's like 60 million people, and they pretty much have been over shot by the i.t. economy and all over other advances. why can't we -- i mean, i see 22,000 jobs and mary and paul what you're doing, couldn't we just really get together and say, you know, so there's 3 million people -- 3 million jobs that can't be filled right now.

there's 14 million people not working. just with coordinated efforts and us just getting together and being aggressive in how we get those people, couldn't we just say, and even with the people in this room, hey, let's create a million jobs, and then just do it? >> this is -- i think what you're saying is exactly what the president said in this administration said and the nuts and bolts of that are, you know, part of what you see happening around you. part of the pieces that come out to do that is we have to have our small and large businesses, our supply chains, connected to our training programs, our improvement communication, and that's one of the things i have to say i hope we take away from today which is you said this to me. when you come here and you see what's happening, there's a lot of talk about what doesn't go right in washington, but on the

other side, we're taking a lot of program that's out there and focusing it. now is the time that we have to be very figure on doing what you -- efficient on doing what you said whether it's work force training. we have to make a better match for the skilled trained for and what the businesses need. one of the ways we're doing it, i'm proud to say, is that small business has a much larger voice. we're finding ways to get what small businesses need and making those connections, and part of it is the retail operation. it's happening in clusters. it's happening with our mayors. it's happening with linkages between folks like the department of agriculture that operate in rural america and our forces, our small business groups, and we are -- if you see ways in your communities that we can be of more help, that we can

facilitate the activity of your business to find more capital, find more trained workers, connect, get permitted better, we are committed to being on the ground whether it's the select usa operation, whether it's our on the ground operations that we have. we have 900 small business development centers so there's one probably within 45 minutes of your business, and if you think of issues in growing your business, we want to ensure whatever door you open in the federal government, you can navigate your way to a solution that is helpful to you. that's how we need to make government work in the 21st century, has to be to you whether you navigate from sba or the labor department. we need to make sure the solution is finding its way to you, so with that pitch ring i'll tell you that we launched -- the president announced awhile ago a website

for small businesses, and there's the sba.gov. those services that you can come and put in what it is that you're looking for, and we can find more and more effective ways of connecting you to the federal resources. now, do we have a closing chat on -- >> one more question. >> i'll take one more question, and i just want to make sure -- i'll take one more question, and before that, i really want to say, the president said to gene gene -- gene and the discussions with you and what he's heard from you, you'll be hearing back because he's really appreciated understanding where you are in bringing your business back to the country, what it takes for you to do it, and how we can be your partner. yes?

>> teach at rochester institute of technology in rochester, new york. it's been a great meeting with a lot of great inspirational stories here. the academic side of me wonders to what extent we are measuring what's going on? on the good side there's trade deficits and things like that, but are there efforts by the administration to start to measure this both at the macrolevel and the individual case studies and harry's work, of course, has been instrumental. >> we have -- >> we have partners, too. >> we have a library that accumulates all of the articles, all of the published cases about reshoring, about work that's come back, and it's about 100 articles, and in a couple months, it's up to 300, and it will be searchable. we encourage the media to write 5 lot of reassuring articles to push the trend, and we'll help

you find the cases, and second, anyone who comes across the cases, we get them into the data base, and then when i've searched it in the past, surnlged that and searched the web, you find reported cases of reshoring doing this. now, it's not absolute proof. it could be they are just reported better, but there's enough good happening and enough of the contract manufacturers that i talked to who say they are doing dramatically more of it today than a couple of years ago. it's still somewhat antedotal, but it's the best information that i know of. >> i brought papers that i use to assess manufacturing costs and you can have access to that. >> well, i want to thank the panel, and i want to thank all of you for coming and spending the time.

the nec, and all of you who helped pull this together. well, i think we have -- greg, last words? all right. thank you. thank you very much. [applause] >> great, thanks, everybody. well, we have one final speaker who wanted a chance to come over and say thanks, so it's my pleasure to introduce her. now that i work in the white house and the government, i get a chance to see how things work on the policy side, and the next speaker you're about to hear from is who makes things happen for us on policy and ensures that all of our policies actually focus specifically on the folks it's intended to help, and small businesses are a big part of our portfolio, and with that, i'll introduce nancy, the deputy chief of staff for policy. [applause] >> i just want to tharng, again, all of the -- thank, again, all the business

leaders, advocates, and officials who shared with us today to the president and vice president, your stories about bringing jobs to america. the president and vice president noted that america is the best place in the world to do business and create jobs, and after hearing from all of you all today, i think we can agree. throughout the day, we've heard that the economics are clear, that locating in the u.s. makes sense for companies both manufacturing and services. the u.s. has added over 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the past two year, and we've improved our competitive. the businesses that we heard from today are making the choice to start, invest, and grow in the united states creating jobs here at home. because it makes sense for their bottom lines from large businesses like ford to internet businesses, to manufactures like master lock to small businesses like lincolnton furniture in north carolina adding 30 new jobs and restarting operations at a once vacant plant.

these companies are bringing jobs back because locating here offers a competitive cost structure. the ability to provide consumer service and respond more quickly to their customer needs. at the same time, we've heard from all of you all that nothing competes with made in america, quality, and reliability, and as the president and vice president mentioned today, we're calling on other companies to follow their lead, to fall your lead and bring jobs back and invest in america. the president asked you today and all companies to do whatever they can to look for every opportunity to bring jobs back here. we can, from the federal government's perspective, do more and should do more to accelerate the insourcing trends that we heard about today, and one of the reasons we wanted you all to come here, so you can give us ideas on what to do to make it easier for you to bring jobs back to relocate your businesses and expansion of your businesses here in the united states. over the past three years, the

president put forward and implemented policies like tax breaks, research and development credits, and the recently signed trade agreements that several of you noted helped ensure that your businesses can compete. today, we announced some new initiatives including new tax proposals to reward companies that choose to invest or bring jobs back to the u.s., an proposed expansion to the recently launched usa program, that brings local partnerships and businesses to the u.s., increasing support for state's efforts to promote investments in more than a hundred cities. we heard today that perhaps our greatest asset is the skilled and productive work force. we heard that over and over again about how much more productive our workers are and even over the last couple of years. we'll continue to develop partnerships between labor, education, and businesses to help ensure america's work force

is ready to respond to the needs of the future. in addition to the great programs highlighted by companies here today, we're working with skills for america's future and the president's job counsel to ensure work and skills training is a key element of the economic strategy. most of all, though, we thank you for taking your time to come here today because we need to continue to partner with all of you. as many have said, within the biggest barriers to insourcing is the lack of awareness about the potential economic advantage to the u.s., and so we hope that today we've helped to shine a bright light on the potential economic advantages of doing business right here in the u.s. and that you'll go out and continue to be ambassadors for that. by working to the, we can address this lack of awareness, and we look forward to getting it done as your partnerment thank you very much. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] .. jodi kantor talks about her new book, "the obamas." it has drawn attention after several passages detailing alleged tension between the first lady white house staffer made public. ms. kantor is interviewed by david works at the historic

sixth and i synagogue in washington d.c. we are expecting this to get underway momentarily. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> this is the historic sixth and i synagogue in washington d.c. we are waiting on washington correspondent and author jodi kantor. she'll be talking about her new book called "the obamas." [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> this is a look at the historic six then i synagogue in washington d.c. were expecting "new york times" washington correspondent trained to talking about her go but "the obamas." if your attention in recent days after several passages that detailed alleged tensions between the first lady and the white house staffer made public. this jodi will be interviewed by david brooks on this event is

hosted by politics & prose bookstore. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good evening. i'm bradley graham, co-owner with my wife, melissa, of politics & prose. on behalf of everyone at the bookstore and everyone at six then i come at it like to welcome you here this evening. we are doing things a bit differently than we normally do

for one of these events. usually someone from six band i would speak first and then introduce someone from politics & prose and then the author. but you will see in a minute by rabbi shearer, director of community engagement here is much better suited to introduce jodi kantor. it's been nearly five years now since politics & prose entered into partnership with sixth and i to present authors. we are always excited when we have an author and book significant enough to warrant an event and this magnificent setting. this is our first joint event of 2012 and it's especially fitting and very political in this presidential election year to be hosting jodi's book, which i suspect will remain one of the most significant political books of 2012. as many of you know, we have

author talks virtually every night at politics & prose city location on connecticut avenue. a guy to take this opportunity to highlight a few of the events coming up later this month. jon barry will be speaking about his biography of roger williams, the 17th century theologian. joe alexander, the humorist will be turning his sharp wit to questions of history and the life and reflecting on his first novel, hope: a tragedy. and adam johnson will be presenting his much acclaimed timely novel, the orphan master's son: a thriller and love story set in north korea. also at the end of this month, ted kaczynski, the former national security advisor will be appearing here in conversation with his daughter, msnbc commentator nikka burzynski about his new book, strategic mission.

and for any of you who may be curious about what is going on at politics & prose this evening, while we are here, there is in fact an event. it is not an author top, but another of our periodic seminaries that we started in the last few months, showing customers how to download e-books to whatever electronic platform they have. we started the sessions to show customers firsthand how they can do this, how easy it is and how they can do it through the politics & prose website. so if you're interested, please either come to whatever future seminars or sonar information desk and make an appointment for an individual tutorial. we'll be happy to work with anybody individually. and now, it is my pleasure to introduce rabbi shirer dubbing. [applause]

>> hello. so, most of you probably know jodi kantor from her work at "the new york times," but i actually know jodi bathroom when she was sick or what girl with big hair from new jersey. we met at columbia university. i think it was jodi's first week of school almost 20 years ago in jodi has been one of my best friends ever since her marriage to run the poor actually was my first wedding. so i think it only appropriate that it was my first wedding in the subject of my book that i spend the rest of my introduction talking about her marriage. so i'll do that for just a few minutes. fastmac no, just kidding. the question as i prepare for this evening is how does someone introduce one of the best friend? do i talk about exploits at

columbia? the answer to that is no because their exploits were basically a statement on friday nights, so not going to go that way. i could also talk about her work bio. of course as impressive as it is, winning one of the young alumni leadership awards from columbia, dropping out of harvard law school to work at slate magazine and after that becoming a section editor at "the new york times" at the later section, one of the youngest editor of a section on record. i could talk about the numerous excellent articles that she's written for "the new york times" and other publications covering the 2008 election and of course, covering the obama says well. i'm not going to talk about any of those things. what i want to talk about for a second is the acknowledgment section for jodi's newest work, "the obamas." so i haven't read the entire book yet because it was embargoed, even from the rabbi. a little resentful, but not that much.

but i did read a lot of it. if you look at the acknowledgment section, you'll see that she spends a lot of time thinking a lot of people. i stopped counting at 75 people. so if you want any indication of who jodi kantor is, that is it in a nutshell. she is someone who was toppled and who is kind and who understands the people who support her and doesn't turn her back on them and respects all people. and even though i haven't finished the book, what i have seen and it and the people she writes about is a lot of the same. jodi is a woman of deep integrity and thoughtfulness, with respect for everyone that she writes about in talks to. i consider one of my greatest, greatest lessons to get to know jodi. we are all very lucky to get to know her this evening. jodi will be in conversation with david brooks, a columnist for "the new york times" and

author of the social animal, which came out in paperback this week. david, i will not talk about your marriage either this evening. welcome to the stage, jodi kantor and david brooks. [applause] >> makes me sad i didn't get into columbia. [laughter] welcome here. i just want to say especially for the c-span on dance one minute about where we are. we are at sixth and i synagogue, which is one of the oldest synagogues in washington. it was a synagogue for a long time and then the confirmation live to cleveland park on a few master at this year and became a baptist church i believe. there was a baptist church for quite a long time and then it was the congregation said they

should move it and they were going to sell this building. it is going to become a nightclub. immediately as that news came out, too plans including zuckerman said we can't make it a nightclub. let's make it a synagogue again. a they refurbished it to its original glory based on some old photographs and we were fortunate because my son, my oldest son who is now 20 was the first boy in 50 years to be part of such from this puma and was the first person since world war ii to use one of the tour is set us back in their so we are celebrating those two gentlemen in all the people who brought this back to life. so from the sublime to the polemical, let's start with today. you've written a book about the obama is. i like most people find it on the whole it. my rebook.

the administration has a guest disagreed. they've come out with some comments about you. what is it like to be in the middle of a political firefight? we are not used to being in the middle of it. and what do you make of what is happening? >> well, it is a little strange because the boat -- you know, i've been covering a promise for for five years and it really started with a series we get the paper called the long run. it is about trying to capture the lives of the candidates. and especially because candidates are so restricted now, it's so hard to get access to them. one of the ways we learn about them is through their biographies. their paths and cared tears and really look at the whole karzai. so this book in a way as an outgrowth of those stories, which have been doing for years and years. and so the goal of this book was to really write about what i would call the big change when i

started covering barack and michelle obama, they really were barack and michelle and the extraordinary thing that was watching have been was watching these two regular people become president and first lady of the united states. and what i was seeing was that it was in a process that happened on inauguration day when somebody takes a nose, but it is a huge learning curve made all the more dramatic in the obama story because of their freshness to national political light and also because of the fact they are the first african-american president and first lady. so we see a couple things happening in this book. we see a few people taking their partnership, which used to be this private thing and turn it into a white house partnership. we see michelle obama had a tough play and an initially white house and then actually turn it around. and that the in the book is

really the most fascinating things that i find about barack obama, was just his struggle with politics. after all these years i can't get over the fact that the top politician in the country has a really complicated relationship with the business that event. so anyway, i worked on this book for two years and i published it and peered white house collaborated. lots of people in the obama inner circle gave me interviews. they knew exactly what they're getting into. i mean, they never misrepresent what i was doing. and also, i sat checked the book was an assistant before publication to publish an excerpt in the times on saturday. mma kids to have to be the interesting things happen. the first thing is that people started discussing the book without having read the book. that's never really happened to me before because of the newspaper everyone reads your work. and the other thing is that the

white house did start pushing back and simulate interesting ways. they haven't really challenged the report in the book, like i haven't gotten a phone call from david axelrod saying you got it all wrong. but some name that really surprised they happened yesterday, which is michelle obama went on tv and she said -- i'm paraphrasing, she said i'm really tired of depictions of myself as an angry black woman. and she also protested portrayals of her fighting directly with rahm emanuel. so that was kind of fascinating to me because the book that really does not portray her in any stereotypical way. i'm also very clear to mention that the clashes between her and i were really philosophical in nature. i mean, maybe i shouldn't undercut my own reporting and talk about their differences in approach to political life that's really what they were.

she did acknowledge she didn't read the book, so i have to imagine that she's responding may be that the coverage of the book and site of the book itself. the part of the reason i'm really excited to be here tonight is to talk about the actual thing with you. >> now let's go to that political thing because that is one of the themes running through the book. when peter roosevelt went into politics, everyone around him said you don't want to do politics. that's the meat people like us. if that sort of the attitude? what are the qualms about politics the abundance have? did not part of the reason they're qualms are important and not to be dismissed is that they are similar to the qualms that a lot of us have about politics, rate? we'll see what is wrong with the political system, what is ugly about it, whether it can really address social needs and what not. but you know, this is one of the many things about obama and that

was such a big asset in the campaign that ends up being somewhat inhibiting and the president sees time and time again and my report income is sometimes a simple way sometimes and complicated ways. i found he had trouble acting like a politician. a small store in the book is about the first super bowl party in the white house. you know, he is kind to everybody. he greets everybody, but he doesn't want to walk the room. he's got this principled objection. he doesn't want to be the guy spending the entire super bowl schmoozing. and he has this idea that he wants to still hang on to a normal life in the presidency. and so, in my reporting, i just watched that idea get tested again and again and again. >> there's another story in the book where he insists on having dinner every night at 6:30 in the which means he can't schmooze with other power brokers and that's the other side. is that a constant theme of

wanting to reserve a domestic life as opposed to being full-time? >> iakovos certainly wanted to preserve a domestic life, part of the problem is barack obama gets to washington and not only does he have not so much managerial or executive or national security or economic experience, but he has also never lived in the same house as his family full-time. in the house they are going to listen for the first time is the white house, which is not in any way, shape or form like a normal house. i think the 6:30 world and obviously is going to miss dinner with his family for important situations and is willing to us tonight that we cared but i do my reporting that the obama's are constantly seeking ways to kind of limit and protect themselves from political life. >> so why do you think he ran if he's ambivalent about politics? >> i think it was a rushed

decision. and i think it was a hard decision. now, his aides say that the summer of 2006 he was still really dismissive of it and it was only -- you know, they began to sort of test the waters then. you think about it, their decision-making process only went from maybe the summer of 2006 to the fall. and what people kept telling him lies, you know, your time is now, rate? if you miss this window of opportunity you may never get it again. part of the drama of the situation is michelle obama is initially very imposed because of the issues and in part because she's worried about attacks and she thinks the public hears may benefit him. what leader of her cheeks of her chief of staff said to me is the decision just really weighed on her peer i find her situation at that time so dramatic because

the way people describe it is she really did husband had been exceptional president. and yeah, she didn't feel is the best thing for her family. so how do you choose between what you think might be good for the country and what might be good for you? >> ms. daniels didn't run for president because his wife had veto power. do you think they had those discussions, arguments back and forth? >> well, yeah, the president and first lady have talked about it. also, the physical white house is almost a character in this book. has been a lot of a lot of time describing what it's actually to live they are and what the structure is like in all the restrictions that come with that life. and i will admit that that is fun to report on and read and that there is a little bit of, you know, exploratory pleasure in getting inside the house. but i think they're also two very sensitive things about it and this to me is the sort of media argument of the book,

which is that the confined isolation of the president he has to really important effects on our system. one is that it really limits the number of people who are going to run for office along with all the other fat is. but you know, the number of people who are willing to go through a presidential campaign and then let this incredibly restricted life is pretty small. and then the other and as we consistently see these presidents get cut off in the white house and they'll say it's not going to happen to them and it happened to all of them. >> i michelle obama is one of the first -- she's certainly the youngest person to have served as first lady since the revolution. did she because of a generation she's from being second title says the right word? >> well, it is funny because she's such a pupil of hillary clinton's in that way.

and my reporting i found again and again that she and everybody else in the white house have one eye and hillary clinton situation and said the attacks she went to in the 28 campaign were really pretty painful for her and everybody around her to be coming in now, that's new to public life and to watch her self caricatures that way was really, really hard. and no, they twist, i think to it though is what her aides talked about was that the traditional nature for first lady hat, which was so exciting that for us and for protecting her a little bit because political life is so scatters and so difficult that it's another way of limiting and saying i the policy. i don't have to be part of this kind of discussion. i'm not going to get engaged in

these kinds of debates. i think there is something very protective about that traditionalism that the world. now of course to spend much much more prominent role, which is what she wanted in the first place. >> there are moments of major injuries, moments of toughness she displays, but almost a real vulnerability. one episode you describe where she is very normal short to go to the grand canyon and i guess robin givens of the posts made fun of them said that the shorts are normal shirts and she wondered if she was letting the team down. how do you sort of weigh the balance of vulnerability and fierceness that sort of alternate in the book? >> that is part of what i think is so fascinating. a part of the reason i think that -- i mean, let's just finish the phrase a great black women from the culture. you know, not only from this

book, the part of the reason that caricature of her so rock if it misses the vulnerability and it misses the anxiety. , that is the work that her aides use. they don't call her angry. the caller anxious. the point in my writing where i found a really fuming with after the second round -- scott brown victory. the senate seat was devastating consequences for the president's legislative agenda. it's all in jeopardy now. and you know, she has two issues with their husbands team. one is that she doesn't understand how they could have let this happen. you know, how they could have dropped the ball in the race. but the other issue, which is more understanding and goes to the heart of the role she plays in the presidency is that she is always sad had this idea that her husband is going to be a

transformative president, rate? should never likes politics of the deal has been if you are going to go into politics, you know, rate? should never likes politics of the deal have been if you were going to go into politics, you know, rate? should never likes politics of the deal have been if you were going to go into politics, you know to have this plucky vision of who you are going to be. and the administration had maybe hoped her deals like the nebraska when they were very unpopular and didn't look that great and barack obama starting to look like a more ordinary politician. and that is really what she was react into. and that is part of why the partnership is so interesting. it's not that we are delving into the secrets of their marriage. we are looking at her vision of the presidency and what she stakes tend to end the standards that she has been whether he can meet them. >> does their influence have a philosophical or ideological direction? issue to a left or not or whether? >> and outcomes of a asked that because it goes to something

you've written a lot about. i think you and michelle obama had a little bit of something in common. i think based on -- based on my reading of your work, you both have -- neither of you put all your faith in government. you know, she, michelle -- to me, the philosophical difference between the schellenberg obama is that she is always ultimately put stock in the legislative process to get a ton. in very early on, this goes back to springfield. she looked to what was going on in springfield and that i don't believe that the legislative process can produce the kind of systemic change we need in our society. and you know, there's a lot of stories i've heard over the years of her just looking at what's happening in springfield and good legislation that got

voted as political garbage or was defeated and that reason. and so, the interesting thing issue is to be nongovernmental approach working with the community more, working on sort of partnerships and business is. and so, part of i think the contrast comes back in the presidency because the president is doing health care reform in the fall of 2009 and is obviously having a really hard time with it. it's not as popular as he wants it to be. its legislative torture. and she starts her own initiative. and what did she start? for childhood obesity initiative. and really, what is the result of eliminating childhood obesity in america? you have a much healthier population and he would lower health care costs because you would diminish diseases like diabetes and heart disease, you know, that really bog down our

health care system. and so to me, she's got this nongovernmental answer to the problem. >> i do think she is the person who in the middle of that site is at night when they register's together same time you got to keep the public option, barack. or did she get to that level -- >> now, what her aides say she doesn't get bogged down in policy details. she is not fluent in the language of washington policy details. what they do say, and this is where anything liberals then progressives can take her with her is that she really keeps them focused on the reasons he ran in the first place and the two issues that come up in my reporting, where she wrote back senecas political advisers are health care reform and also immigration reform. >> i once was interviewing someone in the white house and the president was leaving it at the moment to go in the

helicopter. my interview was interrupted as the guy got up and stood at the window just to watch the president's back for 15 minutes and then came back and finished. in that story typifies to meet the love affair that staffers have. they just want to see the guy. as this love affair changed them? as the process they've gone through, do you think it is changed them? >> well, absolutely. i said the book is really a story of transformation. and i think there's a lot of political education involved in that. and there's a lot of them becoming more sure in their roles in more sophisticated and better attuned to the ways of 10. and then i think there's a kind of loss, too. because part of the reason that the apartments were so interesting in 2008 throughout the ways they resisted political culture in all the reasons they wanted to do things their own

way. you know, there was once a barack obama who refuse to wear the little american flag lapel pin all the time because he said never in these words, and this is kind of cheesy, right? and that is barack obama, you know, that was several verses ago. you know coming a question about whether infielder nature of the white house and the deference that staff has for them is an interesting question. and now, with the first lady, people in the white house tuesday that people can be very hesitant to confront terror. but then there's people who say that's completely wrong and as long as you may know, approach things with the logical way and they do not explain. >> there's a pattern of every white house i've covered that the president is always afraid of confrontation and the first

lady is not. is that a pattern that appears here? >> i -- so much so in a critique at you that the history so can this get, that it is beginning to cease to me and there are exceptions here, but it seems like you almost cannot be president without a spouse who is willing, right, to the village on, tout and to really watch your back. >> one of the great mysteries of how barbara bush got the reputation of the kind of grandmother. >> i have to tell you, i think would've the greatest profiles of her written and this is really sending you back to the archives, but i have to give a shout out to marjorie williams because her profile of barbara bush in "vanity fair" that she wrote late in the first bush administration is one of the great, great classics of

political journalism to me. >> i should mention marjorie williams has since passed away can negotiate to collections of books which are available at politics & prose probably, definitely worth reading if you care about this stuff. a profile where she whacked around the house, certain parts of the house from the record. certain parts off the record. at that table is was off the record, fantastic. lessig and continue with the theme of insularity, which you mentioned. the rule that they think he said she had no new friends. >> they established that will in 2004 when he became famous in that kind of reiterated it. the fact is that a good rule in your view? >> well, we see is an essay. i'm the one hand they have this really close nurturing group of friends from very similar backgrounds.

african-americans from chicago, very similar patterns coming from working-class families all went to elite universities and did extremely well and all these people ended up in height dark and really bonded together. at the one hand, they've had the smartly protect the function for the obamaspirit of the trade descriptions at the eponymous around their friends because du pont is there different. they let their guard down and they are relaxed in the sand and funny and say the things they can't be in public anymore. you know, it does become an issue in the presidency because the group -- you know, i interviewed members of this group. first of all, they don't want us have the president about his job. they say that the only reason when he does.

and they also -- they have such a perfect understanding amongst each other, right? i mean, they are from the israeli special background and they've had a unique set of life experiences. but from us like the understanding among that group is so perfect is sometimes as a journalist and i talked to them it was almost like they couldn't believe that an outsider, you know, could understand them. and you know come to does become an issue in the presidency that the president and first lady are not reaching out a little more and watch in. one thing i found a little surprising if they've never had the clintons did there come at least a couple months ago when i left, that's obviously a complicated relationship for a lot of reasons. it speaks to be fairly introverted approach to the presidency. >> well, what is the

relationship between barack obama and hillary clinton? dimension of the 50th birthday party you have a phrase that has become warmer. farmer from what? [laughter] you know, the way most people the white house describe that relationship is kind of two professionals on their best behavior. but you know, there's always the sense that the really fraught relationship is actually between barack obama and bill clinton. and especially if you're going to to talk about barack obama's objections to politics, some of those are his objections, which he starting back in the 90s in chicago, you know, he's a critic of clinton is them. he's a critic of the clinton ways, you know as doing things. and i think that is part of why the relationship with rahm emanuel is difficult. it would be time to to just

describe it as these two totally different guys will of course work very well in some ways together a 900 complexities the relationship. i think part of it is the manual was trained in the clinton white house. that's where he's from and how we tested this. it's not how barack obama does business. >> if you ever want to see someone who's served in both administrations squared ask you smarter. i'll play what they say. what about valerie garrett? what is her role? >> herbalists really complicated and fascinating. valerie garrett is an old friend of the eponymous from chicago. she is their mentor. she really helped them get started politically in chicago. and she made out in the wake of a transition as a probable is the one the obama stated fish tissue does have a real estate vacated in chicago who she has

in city government experience to going in the next senior aides in the white house. and you know, if the theme of this book in a way is what is public and that is private and the presidency, valerie is a great -- her role they are really captures how complicated it is. because i'm the one hand she's a senior adviser in the west wing just got this outreach portfolio of her own. and on the other hand, she's one of the president and first lady's closest friend. she often represent michelle obama's views in the left wing. she's also the highest level african-american in the obama singer circle, so she's often responsible for matters of race. and you know, the sister of the presidential campaign and still true in the white house. she was kind of a newcomer to national politics and came from a very different case. and you know, in my reporting, i

have seen that the tremendous -- it is funny because some people in washington talk about valerie s. kind of a hanger on. i don't see her that way because she's given the president and first lady so much i think she would run it in every truck them. and she almost seems necessary to this trend -- and they're going through. i mean, from 2004 at 2008, they have, you know, their daily decisions around this one but two people can do it then she's helping them transition. but at the same time and the west wing she sort of constantly under suspicion u.k. she is such a close friend and people are afraid that she is reporting back to the obama's. i mean, you say she doesn't, but it's not clear where she sits in the system. and it seemed though i think about valerie story that is important to remember is that the president chose to bring her

there. you know, there is this very tense blowup with robert gibbs and he is frustrated at michelle obama and later says that he misdirected his rage and it's really a valerie. part of the real significance of that story is that the president thought he could at the very nontraditional management structure. and not only a traditional -- untraditional management structure, but his best friend in the equation becomes very complicated for us than. >> now, you mentioned how does one they are his politics may be valerie garrett is, too. some of the people might has to complete political creatures. do you think there is an invisible wall or retention or ambivalence between the ambivalent political creatures and the political animals they've hired to just do the job? >> well, i guess part of the answer to me is the change

you've also written about, which is that after the midterm elections we suddenly see the white house depends so much more overtly political, not that they've ever not been political. we don't want to be negative about it. but the president too early in the presidency wants to be authentic and do things his way and has this kind of vision from different presidents and always becomes a much more conventions. and some that come from such outward ways at the super bowl party where he doesn't want to shreds. by the spring of 2010, believe me, he is no longer watching the game during these kind of watching sporting events, social event they have. and the other thing is even the teams that he roots for changed early in the presidency. the first super bowl after they got to the white house,

pittsburgh steelers are playing. he always loved the steelers because of all those great stories about this dealers in the early days of the 70s and the roomies, the family that owned the steelers campaigned for him and it's a point of pride because he's real sports fan is not going to find neutrality. and then we see two years later in the white house after he's been beaten up in the midterms that totally changes. now, he says he is going to remain a chill in the super bowl. and you know, there's kind of a game and a last day because i'm the one hand you see he really understands this is what it means to be president if you don't want to trash somebody, and entire states football team. on the other hand, there is something very appealing about deal of barack obama who doesn't want to give himself over entirely to this. >> is that a session we pulled

columnists and there is a bunch of visiting with officials and obama comes in in the middle, sort of a surprise. it's a routine out it's not a surprise under having this high-minded discussion about policy and he comes and like you've been somewhere and is connectix announced. he's one of the most competitive person i've ever met. another thing i want to ask you that it is also one of the most competent people to think of ever met. my joke is obama will be the unit of measure for self confidence. [laughter] do you think that has maintained? or the observed the same thing? >> well, part of the change i think we've seen is that there are moments, pretty recently, where that confidences seem to diminish. i'm thinking of the debt limit

crisis. and you know, there is some insight reporting in the book about what the president would send. he lives on tv at these press conferences and the guy is just so incredibly frustrated with what is happening and not demeaning cj, he was upset about what it had and what the times that the tea party and also about -- i think things have changed now, but over the summer it was really hard for him to do with the massive support from 2008 and beginning a campaign that felt so very different in eight states page he seemed kind of sad enmity felt really misunderstood. and so, i think part of the question for 2012 that we are all watching his canny sort of assimilate this and reboot the

vision for what the obama presidency was supposed to be his god now. and he has to come up with a kind of affirmative decision of where he wants to take the country is still realistic, realistic enough to be persuasive. >> tc process -- i can remember to stop reporting, but you see a process around that time? >> well, i definitely the whole strategy has aroused the white house and are also telling a much more coherent stories on their work, especially economically and it was clear that they were very worried by the league chess and confusion in the republican field, and the hits that romney has taken on the fact they were beaten up romney behind us seems to have contributed to that. but i haven't yet heard -- i haven't yet heard him and tell me if you have, why he wants

another four years in a way that is truly stirring and convincing >> they're thinking about it, but i agree. i mean that as a compliment at the end on this subject. adults think they've achieved a message that equals the hope and change message they have. as you read in the book, they can't say that again. the couples are subjects of them will have questions from the floor. we got microphones here. one remarkable one that is delicate to talk about is everyone who has any contact with their two are absolutely tremendous kids, completely and touched by all of this. how have they done that? >> well, i think that the sheer force of michelle obama's protect the power does have a lot to do with it. now, she was always intensely

committed to motherhood and attempt another. even back in chicago, chicago friends say this is not some on who is sitting in the stocker stands with the lochhead gossiping. this is the mom who stood on the sideline and said this is what is going on with malia's defenses of footwork. so we are talking about -- just remember almost everybody who runs for president, you know, and their spouses, and these people are much more competitive than the rest of us generally. i think she's always been a pretty intense mom. but then i think when they went to some extent been an also the presidency, she poured the full force of her conviction in personality into making sure

their lives are structured and normal. and this is where marian robinson comes in, too. marian robinson has refused every media requests. oprah wanted to have her on and she said no, no, no, no. i like being able to anonymously go on connecticut avenue north of the white house. she's had everybody there thinks i'm another little old lady who works in the mansion. meeting everybody thinks i'm a housekeeper. and in fact, she's the first lady's mom. and you know, what i found in my reporting is no way she has to do that because she is malia and slashes ticket to freedom. their parents can't take them to get a cupcake and georgetown after school or whatever. and she's the person who can do that. >> i should say that's closed. she's going to have to go and

spend $14 on a share. while were on the subject, one of the themes running through especially michelle obama story is luxury. so there's a question about whether she should appear in the , conqueror of go where she is in a soup kitchen and she's handing out things and she's wearing $500 sneakers from france. who buys $500 sneakers? what is that about? does she have a definition genuine face where luxury? >> she says a couple of things. and know, what she said to neighbors in chicago when her husband is starting to become famous and go to washington issued basically say, if i have to go, i'm getting an address saturday. and so, i think it is a

compensatory pleasure that she is to do this. this is one of the fun parts. i think it's armor she has said looking good gives me confidence and also, she is so aware of the power of an image in a way that i'm not even sure her husband is. and she is highly attuned to both the pressures and possibilities of being the first african-american first lady. what she is up against is so big. when she had image problems in the two dozen a campaign and has been caricatured as an angry black woman, the advisers did do a little image makeover on her. we wanted to describe it it to me later was were just going to make her more like a mom on the cosby show. and that line really struck me because i said to myself, wait a second, in this country are we so allow on positive, warm,

loving, accomplished images of african-american women come into it so few famous african-american women who are not either like sports or entertainment celebrities that they've got to haul mrs. cosby who is a fictional dirt and hasn't been on television for 25 years or something, like this is the model they have to turn to. so anyway, mrs. obama, you know, the vote story is about her wanting to represent and her young gross to see an african-american women on the cover of the read the fascinating thing is rather, not specifically with developing but other areas like that, robert gibbs is so concerned about that because he said the public resentment about the economy and bonuses and really became concerned about that image of

luxury. >> okay, to my topic some of the questions. this is equally a shallow, something i've always wondered about. you get as close as anybody of fred here this is about barack obama's actual basketball abilities. [laughter] you describe the game on his 49th birthday, where he invites like all these nba stars. there's actually a great season. oakland tell your story for the brawn and they put the all-stars on different teams come a combination of athletes and hangers on and lebron is on the c. team. who is on amv quakes so he allegedly -- barack obama allegedly wants these people to play as hard as they can. can he really keep up at that level, a 50-year-old guy? >> well, he wins the entire tournament. >> that's not an answer. >> well, exactly.

but remember the story told a couple minutes ago about the time you're in the white house and the guy like stood by the president for 15 seconds just for the proximity. it's the same issue because our people treating the president like a normal human being? can anyone just forget that he was president? about that birthday party, i asked michael tomaso helped organize the game, he said what is the deal with him winning this entire thing? because we know he's a good basketball player, but come on, lebron james. so you know what, book, it was the president's birth day. nobody's really play in their defense on him, et cetera, et cetera. >> this assume it's a mystery when john edwards as running may be time. he is from north carolina obviously in north carolina won the championship one year and the next data point guard for

the team, the tar heels played them one-on-one and edwards told me i'd be damned. now you didn't. you did not beat that guy. edwards actually believe he did. that's what disturbs me. and that is the segue into sort of the final subject which is really some nation, which is really about the souls of the people who are in this freakish circumstance. i want to start with edwards because they think you and i met on a bus on john edwards is best with elizabeth and their two kids. you were doing a similar story to this really. and there was a case and what was weird about that episode and i guess it was the second time he ran, was that the parents disappeared in the middle of the day a couple days and the kids for that. i remember ever going with them. but there is a case where you say that the marriage was all about the public. maybe you disagree.

and this seems to me what the opponents are trying not to be. >> ready. >> if you could just have some thoughts, so my thoughts and i will go to questions for the fuller. the soul of people in the brutality politics, obesity, falseness of universal love. do they -- do you think their spiritual lives are still healthy? is there any religion and their spiritual lives -- desk in this room. how do you evaluate that? >> it's a great question because religion like marriage is simply not have been kind of this contest that whether it's a public or private and for them. i'm barack obama first ran for president, he really put his religiosity out there. in june 2006 he's making a call in telling people he's going to be a democrat who can win over evangelicals. how is he going to do that? is going to read this book and title after a sermon by his

pastor jeremiah wright. and we all know how that story ends. and so, religionist after the jeremiah wright a fair something opponents try to take back into the privacy, something they discuss a little bit now, but not that much anymore. they don't want to showcase the washington church that they're going to join. i guess, you know, a white house aide once said something that really see with me. what he said was wants to put some part of your personal life, like your religiosity out there for people -- and what he meant when you kind of work it did little politically, can you ever take it back? can you ever really truly put it back into the privacy? what is so interesting about what is happening now with the