intentionally prohibited our intelligence agencies and law enforcement agencies from sharing and communicating information. um, if you read the 9/11 commission report carefully, some of the commissioners believe that that wall was actually instrumental in preventing us from identifying the identity of two hijackers who were known by the cia to be in the country before 9/11. ..

>> describes what it was like having dr. martin luther king, jr., as a father, the void left by his father's death and the murder of his grandmother. he also discusses of the electricity of dr. king and the strength he grew from his mother loretta scott king. this program originally aired in 2003. it's just under an hour. [applause] >> well, first of all, i want to say how happy i am to be here in

pasadena and at roman's primarily because this is really my inaugural book-signing if you will. so hopefully you will feel as excited as i feel about the first part of my book tour. also, this is the very special time of year as we begin to reflect on my father's birth, his actual birthday being january the 15th and, of course, celebrating as a national holiday on the 20th next monday. so as we pause -- as the nation's pauses to reflect on these teachings, principles and life's work, i hope that we will all remember that the message he left for us is really truly

rooted being our best selves. i always think of the fact that people compare my father to so many great icons, but i would like to think of them first and foremost as daddy. to me he was just simply someone i could seek refuge in. and i think that the book was for me a great opportunity to get some of these issues out on the table, to look back of the years and expand the rich legacy that i'm very proud of being a part of. and the fact that he was a very serious person in public, the public man that we all know, yet, in private he was very fun-loving, very playful. i saw him more as a playmate than i saw him as a father and he enjoyed having fun and being with his children.

we didn't get a chance, unfortunately, spending a lot of time, quantity time but quality time we spent was very memorable. and enriching. i talk about these many experiences that i will always cherish but i also deal with the fact that at a very young age, this great tragedy that struck america, that struck all of us affected all of us in some way left a very deep-seated feeling of incompletion. so the book in a real sense helped me to bring this tragedy full circle because my family really had not dealt with my father's death in a real substantial way, in a real sense we followed my mother's example of strength and nurturing. she was very courageous and

stoic at the time of my father's death so we really didn't a chance to grieve, if you will. and we moved on with our lives. so as an adult, a young man, i began to realize that there were some issues that i had not quite resolved that i had not fully put in perspective so i needed a means for addressing those feelings. and certainly having this opportunity to write this book to deal with the memoir gave me a sense of liberation, really, of lack of a better word and also being very cathartic and to really see our lives in an objective sense. so i also don't know that many people are aware of the string of tragedies that befell my

family. not just my father but my uncle, my father's brother who was like a surrogate after my father left us and less than a i'm sorry, a little bit longer than a year, just barely a year after my father's death, my uncle passed away. and then a few years after that, my grandmother and these were three of really the closest people to me in my growing up and the fact of the matter is, i was very confused with me grandmother's death because she was -- because of the way she was killed. she was killed in the church sanctuary by a deranged gunman and at that age i was old enough to really experience or

understand what death in a very practical sense was all about. so it really had a major impact on me to the point where i questioned why -- i asked god the questions of why did this happen to such a wonderful person. and really the strength that i derived from my grandfather and the other family members was the thing that kept me going. the fact that i was with my grandfather as my grandmother was being operated on in the hospital, in the emergency room. my grandfather, my cousin and i walked over to the prison ward of the hospital because the suspect had been apprehended and also had sustained some injuries. and to witness my grandfather's testimony to say to this

deranged individual that he actually would forgive him for the heinous act that he committed and as a 13-year-old standing there witnessing this helped to lay the foundation for my sense of healing and my sense of openness and my sense of forgiveness. i also was brought back -- or rather it was brought back to mind that in the late '50s my father was actually autographing a book in harlem, new york, a woman almost took his life at that time, a story not many people know about. and he forgave the woman that almost took his life from a stabbing that occurred at a b k book-signing in new york. what it taught me was that you really do have to live in such a

way that you make the fullest of your life because you really don't know what tomorrow brings. and it also teaches me that it's important to make sure that you have a strong spiritual grounding so that you know within yourself that you're being true to yourself and to your dreams. so i am very proud to, on one hand, have had such a rich legacy but also having tragedy and trauma and hopefully in the end can now say that i am triumphant over tragedy. so i don't see myself as one who should be in any way put on a pedestal. that was the one thing growing up that my father and both parents instill in us that we were normal, ordinary people. and i often tell young people that my father did do

extraordinary things but he was an ordinary man and he was a human who wanted, like so many people to be a part of society, believed in community, was a very compassionate person, a very warm person, a very giving person and i feel like all of those values and all of those qualities were instill in all of my family members. so i'm very proud, as i said, to have that rich heritage. and i would lastly say that having this opportunity to be in a real sense the first king sibling if you will, king offspring to have a book at this point to be presented is a real honor and privilege for me because it took a lot out of me to be able to go inside and

reach deep down and tap into my innermost feelings and my vulnerabilities and be true to my own inner voice. and this process really has been liberating for me, so i thank all of you for your interest in my story and the fact that i will always continue to uphold what i feel is a very important legacy and the book also touches on that fact that while i've always had to balance this duality of obligation, inheritance with personal ambition and desire and really in a true sense they become one because they both represent me in a true sense so maintaining my identity as my own self, as my own man but being truly honored by my father's legacy i think is something to be very

proud of. i tell a story in the book of how one of my bosses really gave me a tough, for lack of a better word, tough love tete-a-tete where he was simply saying to me, you know, you can't be down on your luck so to speak. you can't feel pity for having lost your father at such a young age and he went on to tell me the fact that not only should i be proud of having one great parent or father, but also a great mother and having two examples, two parents that i can emulate and live up to. so, you know, having people like that in my life, influences who helped me to become the man that i am today is something that i have to be proud of.

so i feel like this process has taken me to a point where i can now turn a new leaf in a real sense and i can start to focus on some of the things that dexter -- for dexter in a very healthy self-interest way as my father used to say in one of his sermons, one of my favorites, three dimensions of a complete life and he talked about the healthy self-interest instead of unhealthy/ishness. so i'm now at a place write put this heavy burden if you will in perspective and i can truly say that i am being true to my calling and to myself. and i feel that -- it's so unique. it's been such a unique experience for me to have had

this opportunity, to really get into the meat of who am i as a human, who am i outside of just the son of martin luther king, jr.. and coretta scott king but dexter scott king in my own right. so again i want to thank you each and every one of you on your interest and as we embark on this great holiday that we think of it and the new definition of what my father defined as greatness. he defined greatness through service to others, the greatest among youth shall be your servant so let us remember the king holiday is not a day off but a day on. and a day that we should be giving back to do the community so at the king center we're urging everyone on that day to get involved in the community

and do for those who cannot do for themselves. again, i want to thank each and every one of you. are we going to open this up so, i guess, at this point we will take some questions. and comments. yes, sir. >> how is your mother. >> my mother is very and she travels and i don't know how she does that. we're trying to slow her town but at the same time i feel like that's what keeps her going and energizes her, so as long as she's happy i think that's the important thing. thank you for asking. >> do you have any -- >> i'm sorry? >> do you have any fears in your life? >> fear? no, not in a real sense. i try to live life without

looking over my shoulder so to speak because that would be very frustrating and -- growing up, i talk about this, we were always in the threat of danger. i remember in school -- there were kidnap threats levied on my family and we had teachers going to school -- well, police officers posing as teachers and that type of thing. i kind of joked about the fact that my brother and i, when he got his license we were going -- driving around somewhere as teenagers do and we had this cop car following us around and it was like cramping our style. [laughter] >> we couldn't be kids. danger was a constant companion. but you don't -- at least we didn't live our lives that way. we were always encouraged to just liv a normal life. yes. >> how did your mom deal with the weight of the legacy of her

husband? >> i'm sorry, how have a -- >> how have you observed with her deal with it? >> well, i think she's done very well. i mean -- and i expressed this in the book how it saddened -- or really brought tears to my eyes to see that when she and my father met and subsequently got married, they were in new england or boston at the time, and they had a lot of privileges that they didn't have coming back to the south. she was an artist when she met my father. she was in the conservatory, new england conservatory studying music, concert singer. so they had to make a choice, do we go back to the art type events without having the opportunity, like in the south you knew you would be sitting in the balcony or you would have to enter from the rear. these sound like very small

things, particularly to kids today who have no real sense of that era. so it brought tears to my eyes for them both in their early 20's, i mean, think of, you know, what we were all doing at that point to say no, we have a contribution to make. we have to go black to our homeland in the south to make it better for all people. so for me, that inspired me to let me know that she actually in many ways inspired him and gave him a lot of the impetus. for instance, she was a peace activist at antioch college long before she met my father. so the fact of the matter is she had paid her dues in many ways, so when they met it was almost as if it was a natural partnership. and she cobted certainly after his death by institutionalizing and i feel in many ways popularizing because in america we are very much into symbols. and a holiday is the time that we can reflect. and all of the work she did to

raise the consciousness of his work and his legacy is probably the greatest tribute she could pay in a lasting institutional sense. yes, sir? >> how long did it take you to write this book? how much time? >> i would say probably about four years. >> about four years. >> yes. >> wow. spent a lot of time on that. >> yes, i did. >> what are your dreams and aspirations? >> well, i'm a very creative person, always have been. i have a love for music. i have a love for any type of creative outlet that allows my voice to shine through. i think having grown up in a musical family, as i mentioned my mom and even my dad, i feel like he was an artist, a musician, if you will, his voice, his oratory was very

melodic. and all of that resonated in our home. so for me, i have always tried to approach things in a more creative sense. for instance, i'm not an ordaned minister and did not follow the traditional path people would expect for the son of martin luther king jr. ironically, my sister was the one. and i always say god works in mysterious ways because that was, i think for her, her spiritual grounding. she was only 5 years old and did not know my father, never really got a chance to know him. she only knew him through photographs and other memories, so she needed that outlet for her, i think, to bring her closer to his spirit. for me, it's really about the creative outlet. yes? why don't you go first and you second? >> ok. thank you.

dexter, you mentioned that sort of in passing that to a lot of younger people having to enter a theater through the back door might seem rather trivial. i grew up in new orleans and i was actually 11 years old when the civil rights act of 1964 act was passed. and i remember very well not being able to go into certain movie theaters and having to drink from different water fountains than white americans and not being able to sit down at lunch counters and eat a hamburger for lunch. i remember all of that suff very well. however, when i try to have discussions as just a simple history lesson to young people these days both white and black and other, so often i'm met with a response that i'm wallowing on it, it's in the past, get over it, why do we have to keep revisiting this, that's the trouble with america. we can't let it go. i was wondering if you might share your thoughts with on those sentiments that in my experience, not all, but many young people seem to have.

>> sure, well, first i think we have to do it again in a creative way. the traditional way sometimes can be somewhat intimidating and so some kids condescending. so i think we do have to be careful not to seem as if we're force-feeding this important message. and secondly, the sad fact of it is that we should not have to "dwell or harp" on it. the reason, i believe, we still are doing that is because we really have not dealt with it at the core, root level, so we're dealing with it superficially and not sacramentally. until we start to deal witness at the heart and spirit level, then we will begin to understand. the first argument is well, i didn't do it. the thing about spirit is that it passes on generationally, so until we deal with it at that level, it's not about words.

it's really about what's in your heart. so i think that's the way we have to approach. and make sure we're doing it with love in our hearts and not again trying to beat someone over the head with a stick of self-righteousness because no one can hear a message packaged or presented in that fashion. >> thank you. i was going to ask about the book itself again. you talked about going deep within to write this story and being that you had to grow up very much in the public eye and your whole family, i'm wondering what kind of either collaboration or response your family has toward the things you've written about. i obviously haven't read it yet. but you've probably writ smen stories and i don't know if you took them from a point of being loyal to the family or being very honest with how dexter felt about the things and pretty much how they feel about the stories and the books and things you've done there. >> i wrote from a vantage point

of honesty. my editor, first thing he said to me and my collaborator was, you know, you really have to put everything out on the table. and then it's up to us, the editors, to figure out, you know -- because you can't put everything. it hopefully ties together in a narrative sense and hopefully it flows in a way that everybody can follow. i do believe the first half of the book was most emotional for me. and i think it comes through that way because that was the part dealing with the tragedies. but the stories -- for instance, i tell a story about the only time i really saw my dad get upset was the time that my sisters and brother -- or really my sister and brother hid his cigarettes. and people are, like, well, i didn't know your dad got upset. i didn't know your dad smoked, shame on him. and, you know, the fact of the matter is i remember as a

youngster or a younger man someone swearing me down in public, your dad did not smoke. and i'm holding a picture of him holding a cigarette. you know, and it's like, he was a human being. now granted, he did not smoke until the latter part of his life when the movement became so stressful and that was an outlet. and sure, we don't like to think about anyone that we put on a pedestal having flaws. but he was a human being. so the reality is i was very honest first because i was told that that is the only way you're going to get through this process, and it's the only way that people will understand the story. if they can identify with it. if you write from a -- again a superficial vantage point, people see right through that. so i, for many reasons, needed to put it out there. but i don't think there's anything in the book that's so alarming that people will say gosh, i'm appalled by that. but then you never know, people

have different opinions and that's their prerogative. yes? >> if your dad was still alive today, do you have any thoughts on what he would feel about race relations in america today? >> gosh, that's -- that's a hard one. i think in many respects he would be very alarmed and disturbed, but i think he would also acknowledge that we've come a long way. the fact of the matter is his work was not complete, and his life was cut short. so the continuum or the full circle part of reconciliation did not occur. and if you really understand his philosophy, it really was rooted in the love ethic. and he talked about the importance, he often talked about i was inspired by christ, and i got my technique from gandhi. so when you look at the way the civil rights movement happened,

there was a methodology, it wasn't just ministers feeling the spirit and saying oh, we're going to march today. you know, that was part of it, but they thought about very methodically and strategically, where do we get the most mileage whether we do a sit-in today or a boy cofment and they really thought about also, how do we do this in a way that we allow our opponent to save face so that after all of the tension clears up, we can come back together and join hands. so that's the problem today as i see it is many activists, not all, but many of them who don't really study my father's teachingings go straight to direct action, which is to confront rather than doing information-gathering, which is the first step of nonviolent reconciliation. we really just to go back to basics. it's all there. so a lot of our problems could probably be solved if we sought to find more of our things we have in common rather than the

differences. yes, sir? >> many social and political careers in america have risen to prominence on the coattails of your father's legacy, and some of the associations that they have proclaimed to have with your father, some are very well based and they're very justifiable. but there have been some that are very loose and they've kind of taken that to promote their own career. and my question is, at times has this really -- how has your family felt about this and how you have felt about it? >> well, you know, certainly it's disheartening at times. because you really don't want people who are not familiar with his message to get the impression that this is the way, this is, you know, a lot of people, i say, will carry my father's name around on a banner and that's their calling card, so to speak. but they may talk the talk but

not necessarily walk his talk. and we have to help everyone to understand, go to the source. i often hear people, they run up to me in the airport and said oh, i read this great book about your dad. and i always say, that's wonderful, but you have read his writings? you have read my dad's writings? the amazing thing about him is that we don't have to guess. he actually was so -- i don't know how he did it -- amazing, in the sense that he chronicled his work as it was happening. so sure, it may take time to piece it all together, but it is there. so my point is we don't have to allow an interpretation. let's read what we talked about, let's read about montgomery, let's read about birmingham. there's so many stories there, stories within stories that can give you insight into how all of this came about as a human being, what he was feeling, what the people around him were feeling. so i say let's not allow anybody , no matter who it is, to tell us how we should do what we know

is right. it's really self-empowerment. yes, sir? >> you probably don't remember me, this is not even a question. i met you back in 1987 in new jersey, atlantic city, new jersey. and a good book that would be the "testament of hope" and in there i think is one of the greatest speeches your father ever gave. and i told you that in atlantic city. it was a drum major instinct. there's so many parallels the way life is today. but at that time i told you that since i was able to purchase a tape after your father went with the good lord, i would put myself to sleep listening to your father's speeches on tape. and that shaped a lot of my life, i told you. and that someday that when i

would have children that i would teach my children your father's -- what your father had preached and lived. and next to my bible is that book, and i read even last night, i know it by heart. but i just want to let you know that i kept that promise to you, and i've -- i've instilled those things of your father on my children. >> thank you. god bless you. yes, sir? >> jesse jackson is a complement to your dad, an asset or a liability? >> i think reverend jackson in many ways has made a lot of contributions to the efforts of

social change and civil rights. certainly without his voice in the community, a lot of issues would go unnoticed. and that's not to say in any way that reverend jackson is perfect. certainly we know that he has had some personal challenges in more recent times. i think you have to judge a person, the good with the bad. and you have to look at it in totality. certainly there's a lot that can be done that maybe he's not addressing, but again, i think that goes back to the point i made just a minute ago, that i don't think it's fair to place the burden on any one person because i find myself in that position where people come up to me and when i'm doing interviews a lot, well, what do you think the problem -- how should black people deal with this or that or race? and i'm saying well, it's not just a black issue. you know, it's a human issue.

and until we elevate it to the level of people of goodwill versus people of ill will, it doesn't matter what color your skin is because the issues are the same that affect us all. and that to me is the spiritual part that we have not evolved to, that my father, i feel, was trying to take us to. he kept saying don't focus on me, the man, focus on the message. i won't be here. i won't get to the promised land with you, but we as a people will. once he was gone, everybody would be down and oh, where do we go now. no, go within yourself. and that's what i challenge everyone to do, to not place anyone on a pedestal. you know, in terms of a mortal being. because we are all falable, and we are prone to make mistakes and no one's perfect and no one has all the answers. it's the collective of all of us working, you know, in collective consciousness that makes a difference.

>> -- says something he's under attack. and so i kind of wonder how would, if your dad was living, i always think about that, if he was living, how would he be received today? i always think about that. >> i think that's interesting because near the end of his life it was probably the most depressing part of his life, of his journey. it's very interesting that when my father gave the "i have a dream" speech he was very much uplifted and applauded when he won the know bell peace prize, when he was "time" man of the year n. fact, he was a media darling. but the minute he took a stand against the establishment, the war in vietnam, the poverty issue, when he wanted to organize the "original rainbow" co-addition of poor appalachian whites, native american, mexican americans and african-americans

to come to washington to deal with poverty this time, not jobs, peace, and freedom like in 1963. but to deal with the real issue of poverty, that at that time the johnson admission had this "war on poverty." and congress had allocated funds to deal with this issue, but yet we know that funds went to the vietnam war. well, the fact of the matter is i don't know how he would have been received after his death -- or today because he was under so much pressure, character assassination, all kinds of attacks spiritually. even people within his ranks, you know, his colleagues because he took a stand and there were those who said -- other civil rights leaders who said, you know, you can't attack the war. and he said, you know, if i'm

the last person to take a stand, i will do that because it's right to take a stand. but he could not be bought, you know. some of them had to take the position they took. he said i don't blame you, i understand. maybe you received a grant from the johnson admission. or maybe your consideration can't be proactive. maybe you have to be more politically collect. he understood those realtses, but he said -- he could not allow his conscience to be governed by that. who knows, maybe death for him was really the ultimate statement and martyrdom in terms of his message getting out there because the truth is people may not have listened if he had lived. so i don't know, it's a strange duality and i don't know if any of us are prepared to answer that question. sure.

>> i would like to say that his "i have a dream" speech, i wish children would not be judged by the color of their skin but the continue tent of their character. they used that, took it out of context and used that martin luther king and a lot of people voted against affirmative action because they used that statement. but they don't know that dr. king said in another book, i think it was "where to go from here," he said, the negro is behind, 200 yards behind -- 200 years behind. he said, take, for example, a baseball player -- a runner is behind 200 years, how can they catch up without you giving the negro something extra? give him a little head start. so that's where i took my affirmative action, i took my

source from that. i'm a writer, so i wrote about dr. king in that respect for kids and every year, we have a martin luther king program and each year i put out something for the youth to know. because the youth don't know that much about king. and so wednesday i'm giving a symposium about what did dr. king do and anyone who wants to come can at the lucas library at 3:30. but we're talking about what did dr. king really do? and i have eight things he did. one was the letter from birmingham, which i believe -- it really, it was his most published work, letter from birmingham jail. and that was the best speech. letter to the clergy, and he just told them off, you know, in a way -- i don't believe in america that the people behind stained glass windows are the very ones on this earth promoting's. and another one was when he was stoned in chicago, a lot of people don't know he was stoned when your family went to live in

chicago in the slums and the gauge district section of chicago. gauge park, what it was. he went out to speak against slumlords. i think that's the first time i heard of slumlords. he was stoned, almost not to death, but just stoned. and he did so many things. he was asked to go to -- sometimes he was asked to go to other people's marches that wasn't his cause, like the sit-ins, that wasn't his cause. that wasn't his cause, but he called him and said, dr. king, you got to come. he didn't want to go to memphis, but he came because of those two men sitting in the garbage truck or the sanitation truck, someone pulled a level and crushed them. he'd been there before, but there was a riot broke out, so he went home in march, 28 i think it was, came back in april. they said, we need you. so that's where he met his death

when he went back there, april 3 in the bishop charles mason auditorium there in memphis, the site of the pentecostal church movement. so i'm a dr. martin luther king scholar. >> i see. >> well, i think the most -- and thank you for that display of great historical fact. on a serious point, though, the fact of the matter is my father, in so many ways, his message and legacy has been defined by the media. and i don't say that in a pejorative sense. i'm simply saying that the visual media is limited in terms of what it can exploit by way of sound bites. and frankly, the "i have a

dream" speech, i always refer to it as the top 40 of my father's repertoire, it was the hit song, if you will. but there are many, many more speeches, sermons in his repertoire, which warner books has done a great job at compiling many of those. and a lot of people don't realize that they have not heard it all. that's the other sad part of it is that because of his greatness in such a short period of time, the great -- level of greatness he achieved, people say i already heard that so they overlook it. we've published never-before-heard speeches and sermons in recent times that really may not have received the commercial success because people don't know, as i said. and the last thing is, you know, the "i have a dream" soundbite and the very eloquent point you made about causes using the content of your character for maybe their cause, i'm not

saying that it's disingenuous because they may very well believe that. but i think what i always try to remind them is that my father spoke a lot of times in metaphor. and he -- the beginning part of the speech, which most people have never heard or read and, you know, he talks about, as you know, the problem, the bad check that america wrote to its negro citizens. basically we're coming back to the bank of justice to ask for our rights. so really the beginning part of the speech talked about the condition. the last part of the speech talked about the ideal, where we should be working towards. and you have those who believe we're already there and want to fast forward, if you will, to the ideal and not deal with the reality of where we are. so we have to do both. it really is about balance. [applause] yes, sir?

>> -- your father was profound in touching my life. how, you made mention earlier about your grandmother being killed in the church and seeing your grandmother killed and your father killed, how did those things affect new terms of your spirituality and your relationship with god? >> sure. well, i did have questions as a 13-year-old, as i said, watching my grandmother be gunned down in the church. you know, that's very traumatic. and i think it was my grandfather who told us, and i talk about this in the book, how he called us all together and said, you know, i have to stay around because at first he was talking crazy, saying, you know, maybe i need to go on home and meet my maker. and then he said, you know, because he lost the closest thing to him, bunch, as he

called her, for bunch of goodness, short for bunch of goodness. and my grandmother, big mama, as we referred to her, was such a sweet woman, i mean, didn't harm anyone. so it just seemed so out of place. if it had happened to him and actually the gunman was coming to get him, but it just so happened he was not in the pulpit that sunday. but, you know, not that we would ha but, you know,ve not that we wod have accepted it but we knew he was more visible than that kind of thing but my grandfather helped us to understand through his strong spiritual foundation that it was not for us to question this. that this was god's will and that he had something better in store for her. but what made it work for me was for him to say he had grandchildren left. he said you have to be thankful for when you have a left and before he was thinking maybe he would go on home but now he realized he had to be here for us so he stayed around another 10 years and he said, you know,

i'm thankful that i have my grandchildren. so his message was be thankful for when you have a left. yes, ma'am. [inaudible] >> i've had people that you wouldn't know, not famous people, but people in my life along the way who had given me lessons, kernels of inspiration. i tend to value not so much what a person says but what they do. you know, people -- many people can talk the talk. but very few people walk the talk. and what inspires me is when i see someone who lives their life by example, i'm not saying any of us are perfect or in no way am i saying this in a hypocritical sense because we

all fall short but i'm saying in terms of -- for me my dad was such a great example, stepping outside of being his son, just the fact that he practiced what he preached and that is what separated him, i believe,, you know, from so many others who, you know, had the great oratory or the gift, you know, baptist preachers, there was never a shortage of people who could say those very powerful words. but to apply it in a sense. i mean, i know growing up, us living in vine city in a lower-incomed neighborhood growing up, when my grandfather wanted to us live in the middle class neighborhood and we said no, people living -- standing on a mountain, if you're standing on the mountain shouting and they're in the valley, they can't hear you. he made sure that we grew up in environments as you mentioned when we lived in chicago, he took us to live in the slums. i remember living in a riot-torn

community watching the rioting and everything. all of that shaped me growing up in terms of my character. so for me, it's not just talking the talk. it's really setting -- living your life by example that inspires me. [inaudible] >> well, i can only tell you what came out during the trial in december of '99. there was a wrongful death trial filed in memphis by my family against a gentleman by the time name of lloyd. and it's very detailed so i won't go into all of it now because it's very -- i think well chronicled in the book, but the end result of that trial was that over a period of about a month, 70 witnesses testified that do have in my opinion credible evidence that it was entered into the public record. and at the end of that trial, a jury of 12 men and women, which i consider to be very independent, half black, half

white, young, old, male, female, they're equally mixed down the middle came back in less than two hours with a verdict that there indeed was a government conspiracy to kill my father. and this gentleman lloyd jowers was considered to be a small cog in a big machine but if you ever, you know, take the time to do the research, the trial transcripts are available on the king center's website at the kingcenter.org and the book also talks about it, touches on it. >> coming from a creative family, what are your hobbies or interests in the arts? can you tell us that? >> well, unfortunately, i don't get as much time as i would like to so i'm now starting to get back into it. one of the ways that i access my creative outlet was to pay tribute first and foremost to my

dad's holiday, the first national holiday by doing a record, producing a record. it was like a we are the world type compellation with many young artists. and it featured everyone from whitney houston to run-dmc and it was a mix rap and song, singing and rap combined and it was a way of educating young people about my dad's message in a way that was not so preachy but yet fun and creative and that was one of the things i was really proud of because it we accomplished a lot of -- when i see a lot of the artists today -- in fact, part of that record was recorded right here in pasadena. i recorded new edition at that time, the group new edition and they were generous to donate the studio time and the entire project was a labor of love so i'm looking to express and get

back into it. i'm also producing film and television projects as well so i'm really using my voice in many different ways actually. thank you. >> what the king center do? >> it's the official living memorial to my father and institutional guardian but primarily what it does it educate the public about his legacy and work and we do that through many programs. most visible time of the year is during the national king holiday and i talked about the fact that service is a big part of what we promote. we also have a strong internet presence where we are developing teaching modules for kids to learn more about how to resolve conflicts with violence -- without violence nonviolently. and many other programs that you can learn about, going to the kingcenter.org.

one more. [inaudible] >> and also a couple days ago i heard his vietnam speech. and it seemed like his spirit was truly with these people who are demonstrating peace right now against the war and his speech was -- [inaudible] >> is correct to what is going on now. >> yes. >> it's hard for me to -- >> you wanted to know more about my brother you said? [inaudible] >> oh, recently? >> a while ago. >> okay. well, he is -- my, of course, is the name sake so he has such an awesome burden as martin luther king iii and yet i think he wears it well because his personality, i think, is more

geared towards that, whereas i'm probably more of a behind the scenes person. but he has the organization that my father founded the southern christian leadership conference sclc which is a direct action activist organization. it's really the -- for lack of a better word, a front line of the organization with the king legacy and you will see him and hear him from time to time speaking out on very topical issues of the day. and i will certainly pass on to him that you were inspired by his, you know, speeches and the spirit. i think he really -- he has a big heart and he really cares about people. sometimes to his detriment. and i always say the key to any public life -- if you're living, giving your life to public service, you also have to balance because you want to be

around so that you can continue to give back, you know, receive and to give. well, this has been wonderful and i wish i could do this all evening. [laughter] >> unfortunately, they're saying we have to cut it short but, again, thank you for your interest -- i can feel the energy and feel your spirits and the real sincere and genuine questions you posed and please continue to keep my father's dream alive and may god continue to bless each and every one of you. [applause] >> you're watching 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2's booktv.

>> it's easy to follow the presidential candidates through social media. go to c-span's campaign 2012 website and follow what the candidates are posting in real time. read the latest from political reporters. and what viewers like you are saying on facebook, twitter and more. plus, access to most recent video from the candidates at c-span.org/campaign2012. >> so let's move now to the mcintosh era. there's so much going growth and his personal courtship of john scully begins. talk a little bit about that on again/off again relationship. >> it was a bad mistake. i mean, it was almost like he saw john scully a bit as a father figure or a mentor. scully really wanted to be cool and hip and wanted steve's approval.

and it was for a while -- you know, the famous line -- i think it's a san remo steve is thinking of buying and he brings steve scully buying and scully is demuring and steve says, do you want to spend your life 'cause scully was at pepsi selling sugar water or do you want to change the world? so scully comes and scully is a man of prep school sensibilities, great manners, very kind, but he's -- it's hard for him to deal with conflict. steve felt -- why were you so tough, he said well, the price of admission of being with me is that you got to be able to tell you you're full of it. he used it with two more letters in it and we're going to really duke it out and scully was not that way.

secondly, scully was basically a marketer. you know, and having run pepsi u.s., he didn't sit there worrying about the product. he was not fiddling with the formula for doritos and saying i can make this insanely great, this dorito, it was self-space marketing and i think steve after a while felt that scully just didn't get into how awesome the mac was and then it didn't help that the mac was insanely great, scully priced it at 2500 bucks. it did not sell very well. microsoft started licensing out its copied version of the graphical user interface and started dominating the computer business and so i think their relationship was doing fine as long as apple was doing fine. apple ii was a workhorse it was making money for the company but the mac didn't and there was a fallingout that culminates on

memorial day of 1985. >> before we talk a little bit more about the falling out and the post-85 let's talk about the invention of the macintosh itself. this is a point in the book where you century the great famous quote from jobs. good artists copy, great artists steal, which he took from picasso, and then he would add and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas. that quote is often associated with the genesis of the macintosh because of xerox park. >> they take two visits to xerox park. and as you know, xerox had come up with the concept of the desktop metaphor, the graphical interface, meaning each pixel on that dren could be mapped to bits into a microprocessor. and so you could make a beautiful machine. you and i are old enough to remember and certainly if you're not, you can go into this museum here to remember where you have

to do, you know, those green letters, you know, c prompts with c:/whatever command, it was god-awful, and suddenly at "time" magazine we get the mac and you can click and you can drag and drop so i do a whole big section on both the visit to xerox park and i think the misconception that they just took the graphical interface from xerox park 'cause it takes two years of the most amazing designers including andy and others on the team -- to take the metaphor that xerox used and to really make it great. you have to remember xerox came out with the star two years before the mac came out. i think it sold like seven copies in all of america. i mean, it was a cludy bad machine and they took that meta-and we'll take the mouse with three buttons and totally

simplify it and you can drop, drag and open things up. we'll invent pulldown menu and bill atkinson has other documents so it looks like a messy desktop. none of that was in the xerox originally graphical interface. so i think first of all, they take the xerox metaphor and actually make it insanely great. secondly, t.s. eliot's line, you know, there falls the shadow between the conception and the reality, well, they were able to execute on it, which xerox and others weren't. but it is true that part of steve's genius was looking at 1,000 ideas at any given point and saying, that one's great. this one sucks and this will we're going to ignore but pulling together ideas including ideas from xerox park. >> you can watch this and